World of Warcraft

[Soilwork]

Just wondering.. has anyone played it? how is it? ..and about the monthly fee, I know you get the first month free, but what after that.. what if you don't like the game? You can't play it offline.. so...

Thanks!

[Opus131]

I just bought the CE version.

Great package and the extra stuff is awesome.

As for the game itself, i'll let you know once i actually manage to play it... /frustration

[dreweth]

Opus131 said:
I just bought the CE version.

Great package and the extra stuff is awesome.

As for the game itself, i'll let you know once i actually manage to play it... /frustration



I'm in a guild on the Mal'Ganis pvp server central time. I loved this game during beta, and I love it now, but it's having some hiccups over it's launch.

Aside from that, if you love playing a great rpg and questing with others, you will love playing this game.

Personally, my favorite part about any game of this type is playing the financial side. Getting as rich as possible, with as little as possible. Finding tradeskills where I can really sell up (enchanting).

It's good stuff, but you need to at least be open to an mmo environment, because that's exactly what it is. It's polished as all get out, though.

Soon as the launch pains are over, it's a must buy. And it's a must buy for me even with launch pains. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Soilwork]

C'mon.. no one answered my question...

What if you don't like WoW after the month is up, and don't wanna pay anymore? Is the game pretty much useless?

http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[Wamplet]

Soilwork said:
C'mon.. no one answered my question...

What if you don't like WoW after the month is up, and don't wanna pay anymore? Is the game pretty much useless?

http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif



It's useless and you are out 50 dollars.

EDIT:

I believe the typical payment is monthly via credit card. A few games have game cards that you can purchase at the stores, but I think the preferred method is online gametime purchase. If it's like Ultima Online, they probably offer monthly, 3 months, 6 months, and 1 year increments. I think it's 15 gold a month, as well.

The first month of gametime is included in your game's initial purchase.

[Paroxysm]

Doubt you'd want to play for more than a month. Not the most exciting or interesting game ever.

[dreweth]

Paroxysm said:
Doubt you'd want to play for more than a month. Not the most exciting or interesting game ever.



omgsaysyou.

[Paroxysm]

hehehe http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/love.gif

[0marTheZealot]

pay to play is terrible. If the download for the game was free, then maybe I'd consider it, but a $50 down and 15 a month after that? I might as well stab myself in the eye. same effect, none of the bullsh!t.

[dreweth]

0marTheZealot said:
pay to play is terrible. If the download for the game was free, then maybe I'd consider it, but a $50 down and 15 a month after that? I might as well stab myself in the eye. same effect, none of the bullsh!t.



omgsaysyoutoo.

<font color="#1F1F22"> I paid 85. /sheepish </font>

[Taril]

Omg, this game is so freaking awesome.. I loved the beta, and I love it even more now!! I just finished playing for 16 hours straight.. Im addicted!!!!! Oh, my names Crono ingame, and im a Nightelve hunter

[IwantMORE]

[link] (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/2207229.stm)

"On the evening of the first day more than 100,000 players were in the world, forcing Blizzard to add another 34 servers to cope with the influx."

I thing some underestimated how popular this could be http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[MetroidPrime]

This game is absolutely amazing, Elwynn forest is unbelievable - and it runs like an absolute dream on my Athlon 3000 xp & Radeon 9800 pro 128m at 1280x1024 res...not that uber of a system.

If you were ever an MMO player, this game is unreal and I would score it a 9.9

[Taril]

I agree whole heartidly.. Its by far the best MMORPG ever! Its just so awesome, and it runs extremely well, on my pc, which still shocks me. Im gonna go out monday and by like three of the game cards, so i dont have to worry about renewing anytime soon..

[Paroxysm]

Can someone explain why the game is amazing? Tasks simply involve random killing or delivering packages. Combat is simple and dull. Graphics are average (although quite solid for an MMORPG... although why they have lower standards is beyond me since that's client side). I just don't get it, most people I know just love stuff like this because of the theme. But once you get past the concept of the universe, what actual gameplay is there? Seems like the same trudging and level grinding as ever other game of the genre.

Oh and yes I have played it.

[Gideon]

It's a Blizzard game. That's the main reason.

[Taril]

*shrug* Well, your wrong on all that, I guess you just dont get it, or you have a bad taste in games or somthing..

[Opus131]

Paroxysm said:
Can someone explain why the game is amazing?



Well, compared to other MMORPGs, i would have to say polish and design.

I've played Galaxies (Bleh), and i've played City of Heroes (which was very cool actually), but this game really takes the cake.

Every single detail, every skill, spell or special power you can have, every item in the game, it's all cleverly crafted and balanced.

You won't notice it at first, but the design behind this game it's just quite impressive, and it's all in the little things they did to make the experience as smooth and easy going as possible.

In short, it's like any other MMORPG out there, except this one is made by Blizzard, there's no other way to put it.

Now, has far as to why should anyone even bother with a MMORPG at all, well, that's a completely separate issue.

I would say Blizzard has made this game as close to a single player RPG as they could (where fed ex quests are also abound, not sure why anyone complains about them in a MMORPG but they are perfectly fine in a SP RPG), with the obvious limitations posed by the nature of the game, main one being there's no interaction beetween the player and the world around him. (plus another big complain of my own. Later on this one).

It doesn't matter what you do, your action have no effect on the world of Azeroth and there is no epic sub-plot to undertake.

Other then that this game plays a lot like Badulr's Gate (minus the game's final chapter in the city itself).

Just like that game, there's a sense of freedom and exploration, and the feel of a breathing and persistent world it's actually there.

I've played all the way to level 12 and not once have i even bothered to look at the XP bar, it's always been a constant chase beetween finishing a quest, enganging in mining or blacksmithing, trading with players, and generally just enjoying the feel of the world as i explored around.

There is one thing however that they could have done which would have improved the game (and the genre) immensely. I can't really fault them because no other MMORPG has ever done it (that i know of), but i'm still disappointed that the one company that could have done this didn't even try.

That is, there is no attempt to make NPCs anythingt beyond functional.

Now, whilst a scripted interaction beetween them and the player it's impossible in an online game, there's no reason why Blizzard couldn't have gave them a personality, a history, even a few lines of conversation to make the world feel more real.

I assume the real NPCs of the game would be other players, but that ideal never works, because even on a RP server you only find l33t dudz and game grinders.

This is a major draw back for me because i've always been more of a single player RPGer, and this games are defined by the NPCs almost entierly...

[Vexed]

Wow good answer Opus131.

Do you think this game will have a long lasting appeal? A friend of mine commented on how WoW would not have a long lasting taste. Since you supposedly lvl so fast and something about the raid system i think..

[Paroxysm]

Thanks for the response stargazer.


Eric19 said:
*shrug* Well, your wrong on all that, I guess you just dont get it, or you have a bad taste in games or somthing..



*shrug* Looks like I'm right about all of that. Some people just like it. But hey some people like Nascar.

[MetroidPrime]

*shrug* Looks like I'm right about all of that. Some people just like it. But hey some people like Nascar.



Yeah and some people are overexpectant naysayer geeks that don't like anything just because others do

Have fun being displeased with all of life because nothing meets your "ideals" while the rest of us enjoy WoW

My thoughts on the matter : http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif

[Paroxysm]

Urgh, my comment was in response to Eric19's arrogant "if you don't like it you have bad taste" attitude.

I made no comment that WOW sucks because it's popular. I made no comment that I don't enjoy many things be them popular or not.

You need not act like an jerk just because I questioned the merits of your precious game.

I'm sure you like ever single game that's been released http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif

Get over yourself http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif

[avatar_58]

I will never pay2play for online games. I'm sorry but I just can't bring myself to do it. It's a large waste of money. Especially since sometimes I decide to not play for a few weeks....then I would be nailed by paying the same monthly fee.

I like to play Ultima Online on free servers thank-you. Some of the rules end up being better anyway. Besides there are plenty of other good games out there that are not pay2play.

Heres what bugs me: What about Diablo 3? If they decide to make one, will it be pay2play? I certainly hope not...I'm not a huge D2 fan but I know people who will be pissed it blizzard goes this route.

[Opus131]

Vexed said:
Do you think this game will have a long lasting appeal? A friend of mine commented on how WoW would not have a long lasting taste. Since you supposedly lvl so fast and something about the raid system i think..



It's hard to say.

I'm level 14 now, and the game is quite addicting, but i must confess my main enjoyment so far has been trying to complete as many quests as i can and explore everything before moving to the next area.

I also like looting.

Assuming my interest holds all the way to level 60, what then ?!?

You see, many MMORPGs rely on the level/item/trade skill grinding to keep the player hooked, and under that aspect, WoW may have as long a lasting appeal as it can get, however, the questing system is the very thing that defines this game for non grinders (fed ex as they are, they are still cool to complete), which means once the quests are gone, why bother with it again ?!?

The fast leveling is necessary in order to allow a continous flow of content and questing, once you've done all the quests and once you have explored all the areas, you are pretty much finished with the game, unless you enter the traditional MMORPG mentality, and simply keep playing for the grinding.

Now, a few things you need to consider.

First of all, is it really important to play the game indefenatly ?!?

The fact is, if i play all the way to 60, and then stop, you might have gotten your money worth and than simply quit, that's not too bad if you ask me (then again, it's hard to hold my interested for very long, so i'm used to doing just that).

Second of all, you can always start the game over with a different race.

Indeed, one of the coolest things about this game is that each race has it's own little realm with it's own design, feel and new and exiting questing and exploring to do.

Assuming each area doesn't narrow down to the same linear path as you go highter in level (making end game the same for all characters), this is a very good incentive to start with new characters and thus extending the longevity of the game.

And finally, what about PVP ?!?

I'm playing on a RP server right now, so i never really thought about it, but just today one of the areas near me was attacked by another (orc) player.

I can't tell you how cool it was to mobilitate everybody in the zone to chase the daring offender, scouting different areas as others were taking defensive positions in key spots, to finally find and slay the foul beast. I just can't imagine how cool full scale raids must be...

[Taril]

Well, also, you gotta account for the fact, that theyll beadding new quests, areas, features, etc in the future, Blizzard is one of, if not the best, at providing content updates to their games.. and im sure WOW will be no exception..

and to what Paro said (Not sure if he was addressing me or not, but no I havent loved every game thats come out.. Ive not liked most of them, the only game this year that ive loved as much as this game is Halo 2.

And this is also the best PC game ive played in few years now..

And yea, my comments towards you were a bit arrogant, but you do seem to be one of the people that trashes on the games, that I and alot of other people like, so maybe im just getting tired of it.

[Opus131]

avatar_58 said:
I will never pay2play for online games. I'm sorry but I just can't bring myself to do it. It's a large waste of money. Especially since sometimes I decide to not play for a few weeks....then I would be nailed by paying the same monthly fee.



Well, once you paid for a month, you paid for a month, however, WoW has an interesting little feature called 'resting', that is, if you are in a inn or one of the main cities (or if you just log off while in a inn or in a city) your character becomes 'rested'.

While rested, you get 200% of experience from monsters, for a number of total experience based on how long you've been resting.

That is, logging off your character in a resting zone for 8 hours will give you a segment (the XP bar is divided in 20 segements i think) worth of experience.

If you log off for a week, you come back with a whole bar and a half worth of double experience form monsters.

[Taril]

But basically, if you dont like pay to play games, you wont like this.. Me paying to play, isnt a problem, im not exactly strapped for cash, and to me this game is well worth it..

[Paroxysm]

Eric19 said:And yea, my comments towards you were a bit arrogant, but you do seem to be one of the people that trashes on the games, that I and alot of other people like, so maybe im just getting tired of it.



I guess I am an overly critical person. Just because I criticise something doesn't mean I'm insulting it. I've been gaming for most of my life, I was in Dev but moved on and most of my friends are Dev's. Analysing and picking apart games is what I do. Same with Movies and music (cause I'm a film maker and musician too). Doesn't mean I don't enjoy things.

As for things like generic MMORPG games which I do not understand I try my best to find out why people like them. My friend plays EQ for 8 hours a day or so. I've watched her on many occasions I have no idea why it's fun yet. I'd like to know. I made the Nascar comparison because I find it like watching motor racing or football. Seems repetative and pointless to me but lots of people love it. I'd like to tap into that.

[Fraeon Waser Duhni]

Heh. It's one of the rare times I actually agree with Opus131/Stargazer. Blizzard really has this knack of making extremely polished games and even those games that I haven't liked(mainly Starcraft and Warcraft 3) have undeniable polish in them. And I'm not going to go much further why I don't like Starcraft or Warcraft 3 - I'm not an RTS fan and that's that.

It was already mentioned that the one of the greatest flaw in the game is simply the fact that none of the NPCs have any sort of personalities and only give quests or sell items to the player. But it's also true that no other MMORPG has ever tried to do this - God knows why this is.

The game also feels very different if you play a different class or a race. In the Open Beta I was playing a Tauren Shaman(I was level 14 when the beta ended and I felt like the game was only beginning then) and I'm itching to get my hands on the European Final Beta so that I can play some more of it.

So far it seems Blizzard has managed to remove the thing bothering most MMORPGs, the feeling of grinding. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Kronx]

I played EQ for 1.5 years. I've also played AC, AC2, AO, SWG, JG, HZ, DAoC, EnB, PS, Lineage 2, WoW, EQ2, and a couple of others.

The draw of the MMORPG is the world, not the game. If you pick up a game like WoW and play it like a single player RPG, you're going to get bored and burnout in a month or so. You'll probably be frustrated that you can't "win" and wonder why on earth anyone would want to keep killing and crafting the same things over and over again.

These are valid points, and the truth is if games like WoW were single player they would be pretty horrid (that's if they worked as is).

But the MMORPG's strength is its persistent world and community. Unlike single player games, you can't stroll up and kill a dragon by yourself in a MMORPG. You need friends. You can't just hack your way into a nasty dungeon alone. You need teamwork. A MMORPG is really a co-op RPG in a persistent state world.

The problem with MMORPGs is they haven't quite learned how to cultivate the right community yet. People still want to log in and treat it like a single player game, soloing their way up the treadmill and missing the good stuff about the game.

If you want to enjoy a MMORPG, find a guild ASAP, and let every day bring you a new adventure.

---------------------------------

Right now, I'm playing EQ2. It's a solid MMORPG. It has a slower pace than WoW (which I like) and more interdependence, meaning soloing just isn't as possible.

I think WoW and EQ2 are both great MMORPGs. EQ2 is good if you like joining a community and having to work together to accomplish stuff. WoW is good if you like a bit more room to solo.

[Pepe]

I'm still playing the beta of WoW, but I'm having some objections to the "elite" quests, I like to play solo as well as playing in a group, but the problem is that for the elite quest, you can only do them in group as these damn elite creatures are very strong.

I've been trying twice with a group to finish one of the elite quest, and both times some of the players lost interest, and the mission had to be cancelled as the remainder of the group was incapable of finishing the quest. Considering that my Lvl 30 character can barely kill a level 20 elite creature let alone half a dozen at once, i find these quests a bit unbalanced.

I like the game a lot, but this elite thing will most likely stop me from buying the game.

[Vexed]

Wow I don't think I've seen gameplay discussed so much and so civily in this forum in a loooong time. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

So what rewards do these quests give you? I've heard you can get exp? Do they give you story too? (I'm guessing no, since it was said npcs don't have personality)

Are all quests soloable? How hard are they? Are they neccesary to get further in the game?

I used to play FF XI, some quests were a real pain in the ass. You had to get like a ton of people together and walk around for a few hours or so to complete them. Advancing in the game depends heavily on quests.

For instance special class specific armor, and so called limit breaker quests every 5 lvls after 50 to remove the lvl cap. Don't get me started on the rank quests ;\

[Lengis]

WoW scores a massive 9.5 from Gamespot. The highest review score for a PC Game in a hell of a long time, and the highest rated MMORPG I've ever seen.

Considering how tough Gamespot is on it's reviews, it looks like we got a winner. I expected nothing less from Blizzard http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[widowmaker]

Looks like a lot of fun. Wish I had internet at home. Oh well. Enjoy it you lucky b@st@rds!

[Opus131]

Lengis said:
WoW scores a massive 9.5 from Gamespot. The highest review score for a PC Game in a hell of a long time, and the highest rated MMORPG I've ever seen.

Considering how tough Gamespot is on it's reviews, it looks like we got a winner. I expected nothing less from Blizzard http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif



Half Life 2 got a 9.2 but they gave 9.5 to WoW ?!?

I need to read that review, what the heck ?!?

Still only level 16 now, not far enought to judge the whole experience yet, but one thing i have to say, this is just about one of the best looking games i've played yet.

High poly count and high resolution textures can suck my d*ck, i have rarely seen a game witn an artistical direction this good.

[Lengis]

The game looked pretty low in terms of geometric detail (polycounts), but yea the artwork is very impressive.

[Gideon]

High poly count and high resolution textures can suck my d*ck, i have rarely seen a game witn an artistical direction this good.



Everything has it's place, but I couldn't agree with you more with respect to the changes in Blizzards art department over the years. They make lowpoly stuff look breathtaking and amazing.

Just imagine playing a game that looked like their cinimatic team did it. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Beelze]

I wonder if anyone knows when one will be able to play it in Europe?

[Arkhangel]

Played until 12:30 last night. The game's like crack for me.

After the experience I had with SWG (my first MMORPG), I was extremely hesitant that I'd like it. My friend beta tested both SWG and WoW and had said that he liked both (although he's a Star Wars freak).

I have a level 13 Orc Warlock on an east coast server (don't remember which one) and created an Undead Mage on a west coast server that's now level 7. The spells/abilities for both are pretty decent.

For the mage, it's mainly direct damage. The M.O. seems to be, hit from a distance (as far away as possible), then slow the baddie down with an ice spell, then hammer him senseless as he slowly approaches you. The undead missions seem pretty decent to me. There's just enough of a story to them to give you a small hook and a little interest in it. If I weren't in a party with my friend and brother I'm sure I'd take more time actually reading the storyline to each quest.

The Undead areas are pretty well modeled and whatnot from what I can tell, although I'm not a graphics freak. Each area has a lot more ambient models around like trees, tombstones, hanging vines, ruined buildings (both small and large), and hills. It looks like a dying area. Not like what I found in SWG where there seemed to be a lot of wide-open empty space where the trees and whatnot didn't look like much. The graphics are good enough that I don't notice them looking bad. I don't stand there and marvel at how amazing it is, either.

The Warlock plays completely different from the mage. His deal is to eventually get a tank and deal damage through DOT spells. At first, it's something of an uphill battle. You eventually get an Imp who helps out with damage, but since he can't take any you're the tank. Many fights end with you about out of mana and about out of health. Basically, you hit with DOT spells, then with direct-damage (Shadow Bolt) as the enemy draws near. The Imp helps some, too. Eventually, you get a voidwalker which is a really good tank. At that point, you send him in to pull an enemy and you stand back fat and happy and let him take all the damage for you. From what I've read, later on the game becomes a matter of DOT spells, some instant attacks, and the fun of leeching health/mana from enemies to you and then feeding it to your tank who's taking the beating for you.

The Orc lands are very different from the undead. They look like a desert region for the most part. The mountains are reddish/orange instead of the green/dark blue/black of the undead. There are cactii around, scorpions, wild pigs and whatnot.

Again, I haven't paid a ton of attention to the story content there, either, but this is because my brother and friend are now 4 and 6 levels ahead of me because I was out of town over the weekend and I'm trying to catch up.

There seems to be a good bit of diversity in the quests. Unlike SWG, I'm not grinding. I've done a tiny bit, but that's been either because I've been too weak as a low-level Warlock to take on some baddies (when I was tanking myself) and needed to raise levels to survive or else when you have a few "bubbles" left to in order to level up to the next level.

Crafting is also not as painful as with SWG. You're looking at a matter of seconds/minutes to craft stuff instead of taking forever.


So far, I'm in love. It's a great game. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/love.gif


--------------------------------


I have a question that I can't find an answer to. Every level, you get an addition +5 points to each of your three "branches" of the skill tree. What effect does that have in game? Does it make your skills more potent somehow? Or somehow less able to be interrupted during combat? What's the deal?

[Mountain Man]

MMORPGs are too expensive. I was hoping Blizzard would break the trend and offer more competitive pricing, but it seems they're going to stick with the traditional $15/month subscription fee. It would have been nice to see more options, like unlimited play for $15/month, 20 hours for $5/month, and perhaps an hourly fee so you only pay for the time you actually play.

[Arkhangel]

^ The way I look at it is if the game holds me over for a few months, that's a max of $15 a month (longer subscriptions make it somewhat cheaper) that's a heck of a deal over the typical game that comes out and I'm done with it in a week or less.

Think about it: Max Payne 2. I played it for about 20 hours. Since Tuesday night, I've played WoW more than 20 hours. If it were a regular game, I'd have to go get another one. With WoW, I have the same one and I know it'll keep me interested for another few months.

It's a deal as far as I'm concerned.

[Vexed]

You have a point there. I never looked at it like that.

[Taril]

I have no problem with the fee.. I actually wont have to worry about it, cause once the time cards come out, im probably gonna buy like 4 of them.. So I won't have to renew, for along time.. Im THAT addicted to this game.. Ill be playing it forever... I played 18 hours straight yesterday, and ill be up all night tonight playing.. and probablly all tommorw.. Its nice to be off from work for a few days http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif..

[LeadBullet]

I played one of the later closed tests, and its like most other recent blizzard games. They take an existing genre, only make it watered down, dumbed down or whatever you want to call it. Basically from what most people say is its an Everquest1 clone only watered down and like Diablo in the way that you can go out alone and just have everything handed to you without much challenge to where you really need to team up with people do do things.

Basically it will be good for a sponge to soak up the MMORPG players that are obsessed with fake money, and fake prestige, who are just obsessed with trying to make some level 3943 god or something. So for people playing anything other MMORPG, it should help them play that one with less retards to worry about, since they will have all gone to play WoW.

[Taril]

Have fun, with your crappy MMORPG jackass. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Paroxysm]

And you with yours http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[dreweth]

LeadBullet said:
I played one of the later closed tests, and its like most other recent blizzard games. They take an existing genre, only make it watered down, dumbed down or whatever you want to call it. Basically from what most people say is its an Everquest1 clone only watered down and like Diablo in the way that you can go out alone and just have everything handed to you without much challenge to where you really need to team up with people do do things.

Basically it will be good for a sponge to soak up the MMORPG players that are obsessed with fake money, and fake prestige, who are just obsessed with trying to make some level 3943 god or something. So for people playing anything other MMORPG, it should help them play that one with less retards to worry about, since they will have all gone to play WoW.



I would cook up something snide to say about your "review", but I'm having way too much fun playing the game! I can't be mean when I have a smile on my face from a great gameplaying experience!

Lighten up! http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[Opus131]

LeadBullet said:
I played one of the later closed tests, and its like most other recent blizzard games. They take an existing genre, only make it watered down, dumbed down or whatever you want to call it. Basically from what most people say is its an Everquest1 clone only watered down and like Diablo in the way that you can go out alone and just have everything handed to you without much challenge to where you really need to team up with people do do things.

Basically it will be good for a sponge to soak up the MMORPG players that are obsessed with fake money, and fake prestige, who are just obsessed with trying to make some level 3943 god or something. So for people playing anything other MMORPG, it should help them play that one with less retards to worry about, since they will have all gone to play WoW.



Have fun playing other MMORPGs then, i'm sure the incessant level grinding it's going to be very challenging and rewarding for you.

I'll stick with WoW, at least Blizzard had enought good sense to make the game FUN (gasp, imagine that, a MMORPG that is actually worth PLAYING...)

[Arkhangel]

^ I agree completely. I enjoyed SWG immensely the first two months. Then I got somewhat jaded for the next month+. I quit playing before I got into the 5th month of my 6 month subscription. Constant pointless grinding on an incomplete game with no meaningful content is nothing short of irritating.

----------------------------
My Warlock is now level 15 and 1/2 way to 16. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Beelze]

What are the best things with WoW then? I'm probably going to get it.

[Beelze]

From the newspage at WorldofWarcraft.com:



Accounts Banned for Speed Hacking - Block on 12/3/04

We wanted to take this time to make an announcement about a serious hacking violation in World of Warcraft, one for which we have zero tolerance. Certain individuals have been identified as using speed hacks to accelerate their characters. This goes against the theme of fair play that we have instituted for the game, and is in clear violation of the World of Warcraft Terms of Use.

Those individuals who were caught using the speed hack have been banned from the game and have had their accounts closed. We must stress once again that we are opposed to hacking and cheating of any kind and are dedicated to maintaining a fair environment in our games. This will serve as a final warning to others who are considering using the speed hack. If you are caught using it, you will be banned without question from World of Warcraft and your account will be revoked.

Thank you for your understanding and cooperation in this matter. If you suspect someone of using the speed hack, or wish to report other instances of cheating, please email us at hacks@blizzard.com. Thank you again for your continued support.




I'm impressed at their dedication to fair play. Hopefully this will teach those cheaters not to cheat again in a Blizzard game. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

BTW: What's this "Final Beta" thingy? Is it the store-bought version which you're all playing?

[Arkhangel]

Beelze said:
What are the best things with WoW then? I'm probably going to get it.



Welll.....it's quest-driven so there's only as much grinding as you want to do. Crafting is quite easy and doesn't take a ton of time. The world looks nice.

Not very system resource intensive (although, I'd recommend a good graphics card and 512 MB RAM). I played on a Pentium 2.4 GHz last night (my girlfriend's comp). I ran, but had lots of HD grinding which, I suspect, was due to only have 256 MB of RAM. Wide open spaces (I played in The Barrens last night) were my friend. Places like cities (Orgrimmar, the Tauren city) and shops (in The Crossroads, Ratchet, Taurajo) caused many problems.

There's a wide variety of quests that send you all over. There's mountains, woods, tropical islands, desert, plains, savanna. And that's just the stuff I've been in. There's a whole other continent I've never been to w/ my Warlock. I haven't been to about 2/3 of the continent I started on.

Weapons are similar to Diablo2.

Playstyle is pretty cool. There are a bunch of main classes you can start off in and each one has different playstyles you can do. It's similar to D2 in that respect. Also, unlike with D2 the camera angle and environment are set up to make you feel more like you're actually there instead of looking from above (you can change the camera angle very easily, if you want). There are sights and sounds (which can be minimized if your computer is hurting) that are very neat. For example, you can go near to a herd of kodo and feel (your character actually bounces) and hear the ground shaking with their steps.

Im really enjoying it.


--------------------------------
My warlock reached level 20 last night.

[Opus131]

Beelze said:
What are the best things with WoW then?



From the top of my head :

1) Immersion

From the visuals, to the sound, to the music, to the fact each zone has it's own unique design and feel, the fact the world is completely seemingless with virtually no loading, even beetween zones (how they achieved this, i have no idea), everything in the presentation of this game just feels so polished it's astounding.

Speaking of the graphics, you need to turn your resolution up and set at least a x2 on AA because of the inherent low poly count and low textures resolution, after that you can let the art design and the fluid animations do the rest.

2) It's Warcraft

All the silliness and the humor and everything that makes Warcraft so charming it's present here in ample quantity. If you ever liked the setting, expect to be sucked in into the realms of Azeroth once again.

3) Accessibility.

I like the fact you just can load the game, make a character, and just play.

The big difference beetween WoW and most other MMORPGs is that, ultimetly, none of this games offer the living, persistent world in which you are supposed to adventure.

Most of them are nothing but grinders with a closer relation to Microsoft Excel then a real game.

WoW succedes in dampening the grinding by giving you a sense of achievement not correlated to the time you are willing to spend on the game.

You can log in a few hours and still feel like you have done something worthwhile, be it a simple fed ex quest, gaining a level, forge a few trade items, what have you.

It's a casual gamer dream where those who do not have the time, the willingness or even the need to spend 8 hours a day in front of their PCs for weeks at hands just to gain a level, or loot some random uber item can actually have fun.

For some who enjoy that type of constant grinding, WoW may have a very short lived lasting appeal, for the rest of us who'd rather play a game then work full time to upgrade a spreadsheet, it's a refreshing change...

[MetroidPrime]

I played one of the later closed tests, and its like most other recent blizzard games. They take an existing genre, only make it watered down, dumbed down or whatever you want to call it. Basically from what most people say is its an Everquest1 clone only watered down and like Diablo in the way that you can go out alone and just have everything handed to you without much challenge to where you really need to team up with people do do things.



What game were you playing? I had to group with people to do any of the wanted poster quests and those started at level 10 or so.

Since then I've done dungeon instances such as deadmines which took a full group to dungeon-crawl all the way through the mines --> goblin foundry --> hidden sea cave with a pirate ship and then to beat the boss which was like a little mini-EQ raid.

One of the mini-bosses on the way to the boss had a neat little script where he ( a tauren) stunned everyone while he ran off to a treasure chest nearby, kneeled down and looted it and came back dual wielding cleavers to fight more just as the stun wore off. Upon beating him further he repeats this and comes back with a big 2-hand hammer and is even meaner.

The Ignorance is strong with you http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif

[Beelze]

Well, from what you guys have said and what I've read elsewhere, I take it that this is a very good game.

Could anyone who's playing it name their system specs, including their internet connection, and give me an idea how well it performs? Yes, I know the system requirements are low, but I'd really like to know anyway. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Synti]

AMD Athlon XP 2800
Ati Radeon 9800 pro
512DDR ram
1000/512 cable

Runs like silk. Although when I was downloading Ong Bak at the same time(Hold it there warez purifists, downloading movies for your own use isn't illegal according to the Finnish laws) there was some severe lags in Irongard(Huge dwarfcity).

[Beelze]

Thank you for your reassurance - it should run good for me too then. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I like that the game is kind for casual gamers. Although I'm very passionate about gaming, I don't play as much as I wish I would thanks to everyday obstacles like school.

But hey, you're in Finland. You have the full game already? I thought Europe was going to get it during the start of 2005? Or are you playing some beta version?

[Synti]

Beelze said:
But hey, you're in Finland. You have the full game already? I thought Europe was going to get it during the start of 2005? Or are you playing some beta version?



Yeah, I play the closed European Beta. Just started today. It's really great and addictive. Already a level 8 Dwarf Hunter even though I have just played a few hours. Really rewarding game.

[Fraeon Waser Duhni]

Buhahahaah. I was in the Open Beta a week or two ago and ran it with(medium-to-low settings):

Duron 1600mhz
Geforce FX 5200 64MB
256MB DDR
1024/1024 DSL

It was playable all the way through for me. Got a level 15 Tauren Shaman before I had to quit but my big brother(not the Orwellian type http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif) got the European pre-order box so you should see me in the Final Beta and the full game. Yes, I'm a bum, but I'm a bum playing World of Warcraft. Big difference. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[Reaper978]

I had to respond to this


Eric19 said:
*shrug* Well, your wrong on all that, I guess you just dont get it, or you have a bad taste in games or somthing..



Eric19 said:
Have fun, with your crappy MMORPG jackass. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


People besides yourself have opinions. These opinions can differ from yours. You can either accept this fact and stop insulting people with differing opinions, or you can continue with this behavior and be looked down upon by many people.

I'd just like to say that I have zero respect for you as of now.

Moving on, my parents will not ever subscribe to a monthly fee to play a game, especially on top of 50 dollars. I don't blame them. I do not believe that the monthly fee has to be anywhere near the height that it is, especially with the immense amount of people playing the game and each paying 13 a month or 15 a month or whatever it is. I guess the people paying just don't care. I'm currently waiting for Guild Wars (http://www.guildwars.com/) which also looks fantastic and is getting a great response (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0002BJQDY/qid=1102206406/sr=8-2/ref=pd_csp_2/103-0129888-4734238?v=glance&s=videogames&n=507846) (scroll down) from the people who have played the beta.

[MetroidPrime]

Athlon Xp 3000
1024 pc2700 ddr ram
radeon 9800 pro 128m

Runs silky smooth at default clip plane level (which is about EQ's max clip plane) and has a 5-10 fps drop in cities, still smooth and playable, just noticable since everything else is silk.

I imagine when I upgrade that it will be even smoother.

Overall runs top notch like all Blizzard titles.

And the art...wow..Mezten's art direction is amazing and Jason Haye's scores are unreal, especially Dun Murough/Ashenvale/Elwynn Forest.

If you are a fan of MMORPG's at all or even a fan of Warcraft..you will love this game..its really amazing.

[MetroidPrime]

Moving on, my parents will not ever subscribe to a monthly fee to play a game, especially on top of 50 dollars. I don't blame them. I do not believe that the monthly fee has to be anywhere near the height that it is



How do you figure?

First you have to cover the cost of 1.) servers 2.) staff 3.) update development (it costs money to pay people to constantly tune the game)

Then once you cover all those costs, you have to have a little profit incentive to even be a succesful business.

For me paying $15 a month for entertainment that I probably play absolutely no less than 30 hours a month thats a pretty damn good deal. How much does going out to a movie or a bar cost you for 30 hours?

[Reaper978]

How do you figure?



IwantMORE said:
[link] (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/2207229.stm)

"On the evening of the first day more than 100,000 players were in the world, forcing Blizzard to add another 34 servers to cope with the influx."




Ok, so what's $15 times 100,000 people per month? That would be $1,500,000 per month. Now add all the money blizzard received for the purchase of the game:

$50 (price of game) times 100,000 people = $5,000,000

And that's not counting all the people who bought the special edition which, if I am not mistaken, was $80 or around there. I am no master on this stuff, but do they really need that much money for the upkeep? And that's just the sales on the first day, it's going to be growing. That's how I figure.

Also, if it does indeed take $1,500,000 per month to cover everything, tell me. I honestly don't know.

[dreweth]

Reaper978 said:
I honestly don't know.



I'm sure that's true. However, the people who want to play this game are willing to pay, and the business model obviously supports itself and it's customer base. Everyone is happy. I'm happy to be playing, Blizzard is happy to be serving, and you (among others) are happy not understanding why it works and why it's worth it.

Fun all around!

P.S. I'm really not trying to be a dick to you. Some detractors that don't understand the business model or the gaming style think that they can always put up the "numbers" and call it silly, and I think that's silly. So I must say it's silly, as is my sworn duty.

[Reaper978]

and the business model obviously supports itself and it's customer base.


Who cares if it supports itself and it works, does it seem correct to you? In a particularly extreme case, take for example a world where parents, for some reason, don't care about their children and are fine with the idea of sending their children off to forced labor camps where they are abused and subjected to horrendous conditions. One could easily claim that "The parents don't have a problem with it, so the system works." Just because it works doesn't make it right.


Some detractors that don't understand the business model or the gaming style think that they can always put up the "numbers" and call it silly, and I think that's silly.


Why do you put quotation marks around the word "numbers"? Are the numbers which I just showed you untrue? Or is it that you don't care about them no matter how glaringly ridiculous they really are? Just continue to shrug off the naysayer's numbers or claims as if they hold no water; you won't be levelheaded about the issue.

[Opus131]

Reaper978 said:
Ok, so what's $15 times 100,000 people per month? That would be $1,500,000 per month. Now add all the money blizzard received for the purchase of the game:

$50 (price of game) times 100,000 people = $5,000,000

And that's not counting all the people who bought the special edition which, if I am not mistaken, was $80 or around there. I am no master on this stuff, but do they really need that much money for the upkeep? And that's just the sales on the first day, it's going to be growing. That's how I figure.

Also, if it does indeed take $1,500,000 per month to cover everything, tell me. I honestly don't know.



A few things are confusing in this figure :

1) Did you just assume the game costed no money to produce, or is that variable missing from your calculation by mistake ?

2) Why do you base average population on the starting number of registered users where such a figure can be hardly classified as a constant, particularly in the long run where it will be harder and harder to keep people interested

3) Is Blizzard ever supposed to make a profit here ?

Not to say paying 15$ isn't overpriced, just wanted to point a few things...

[Reaper978]

1) Did you just assume the game costed no money to produce, or is that variable missing from your calculation by mistake ?


No, I didn't, and I am sure we are all well aware of the cost to create a game. However, logic would state that because of their perpetual income from the monthly fee it isn't nearly as much of an issue. I don't know if the game cost them 5 million dollars to create either, as it could've I suppose.


Why do you base average population on the starting number of registered users where such a figure can be hardly classified as a constant, particularly in the long run where it will be harder and harder to keep people interested


Very true. However, I doubt that the population will decrease anytime soon, as is the usual trend with blizzard's games.


Is Blizzard ever supposed to make a profit here ?


Of course, did I say otherwise? My point is that there is a difference between making a profit and taking advantage of your customers. I believe that all these MMORPG developers are taking advantage of their population by charging so much on a monthly basis.


Not to say paying 15$ isn't overpriced


Alright, so they are charging too much then!?


just wanted to point a few things...


All your points are quite valid.

[London_Midge]

According to Gamespot (http://www.gamespot.com/news/2004/12/02/news_6114348.html), they had sold 350,000 copies through last weekend, which comes out to over $17 million. Any company worth its salt would depend on sales figures to cover production costs, not post-sales monthly charges, because those can be cancelled at any time.

$14.99 a month is ridiculous, but not because of Blizzard. They didn't set the market price, they just went along with the trend. How much does EQ2 cost? City of Heroes? I know that Sony charges $14.99 for Star Wars Galaxies. Blizzard would be rather foolish to undercut that, when people are obviously willing to pay it. However, that doesn't change the fact that it's outrageous. That $14.99 goes for bandwidth, nothing more, despite what anyone else tries to tell me. Do they patch the game? Sure, just like they patch any game, and if they want to keep their customers, supporting their game is part of the original price, just like it is for HL2, Doom 3, No One Lives Forever, and SWG. Figure in 5 or 10 customer support reps that make minimum wage, and you still pay $14.95 a month for bandwidth. My DSL connection costs me $29.85/month. Am I to believe that for every 2 players, WoW requires the equivalent of a DSL pipeline to keep things silky smooth and problem free? I call bullshit on that. I call bullshit on anything over $4-$5/month, and that still gives the makers a nice profit to ice the cake of the initial purchase profit.

It certainly isn't Blizzard's fault, as they'd be foolish to price their product that much lower than their competitors, but eventually I hope it catches up to all of them. At the very least, if they're going to collect that big of a profit on a recurring basis, they game itself should be free for download.

[Reaper978]

It certainly isn't Blizzard's fault


Definitely. I don't want to imply that they are the only ones milking the MMORPG scene to death, because all of these companies are. But, if people are willing to pay, nothing will change.

[Beelze]

The sales should cover the production cost, and give enough profit so that new projects can be started. None of that money is to be put back into the game, but rather into new games. The monthly fee is payed so that Blizzard will keep adding new content (quests, items, places, graphical updates, etc.). I agree that the fee is probably too high, as I can't see them adding that much content to the game.

I don't know if the customer has much power in this case. I suppose the best thing to do is to put pressure on a developer before their game is done, encouraging them to break the trend. Perhaps other companies would follow, if you bring many of them over to the "good side".

[Kalki]

For some markets, $15 pm is laughable- it's true. Me, I'm inclined to pay $20 max for a whole year's subscription- the same I'd give for any computer magazine with a free dvd. I already pay 17 bucks equivalent on my monthly internet cable bills. Now I'm expected to pay slightly less for their end too.

But I can see how this is justified. The battlenet servers for the Diablo games must have been matchmakers right? While WoW requires the games be run on dedicated servers. If that's the case then I can understand the pricing. Would never go for it myself, but I'd understand it.

People should get to host their own servers when playing any multiplayer game.

[Beelze]

Anyone playing on an role-playing server? If so, what's it like? I heard that "Silver Hand" is a good RP server.

[Opus131]

London_Midge said:
That $14.99 goes for bandwidth, nothing more, despite what anyone else tries to tell me. Do they patch the game? Sure, just like they patch any game,



This isn't entierly true.

City of Heroes has automatic updates every several months that are a little more then mere patches.

New content and radical improvements on the game are added constantly.

Ideally, we are paying monthly to ensure server continuity and maintainance, AS WELL (actually, this IS the reason we are paying a monthly fee) as keeping a portion of the team who created the game on a roll to improve and add new content on the fly.

In theory, the principal reason to keep playing the game indefenatly is that new content is added constantly to furthere the experience.

The problem here is that, while this buissness model make sense per-se, Sony Entertainment set a precedent that has now dragged the whole idea to the ground.

Once they took over Ever Quest their idea of running the game was to have people pay 10$ a month for nothing more then a Battle.net esque servive, whilst new content (which ideally is already being paid for monthly) was released only in the form of priced expantions (which you HAD to buy if you wanted to keep playing the game), and get this, this new content was so immensely hard to access (think of a guild of 40 people having to do a 8 hours long raid just to acquire a key to enter the new zones) that the rest of the community got screwed in the ass by paying for something there was no chance in hell they could have had access to.

You see, according to Sony Entertainment, the idea behind running a game indefenatly is not to grab the interest of the player base with new content, but rather, they had every subscriber stuck on a meaningless grind whilst SoE leeched every penny they could out of those poor individuals.

Let met assure you that THIS is not something any of us would agree to with WoW.

If Blizzard doesn't keep on the promise of adding new content WHICH I'M PAYING FOR MONTHLY ALREADY, then there is no reason for me to stay more then a few months.

Hell, CoH was prettry decent with the continous updates and i still lost interest.

BTW, a nice solution to solve this problem is Guild Wars.

While their game is more similar to Diablo then a MMORPG, their buissness model centers around the idea of paying for expansions rather then have a monthly fee.

That is, instead then pay in advance and hope the developers deliver, you can choose to pay for the content directly AFTER actually being produced.

IMHO, it's a more sound and fair system, and i might switch to that if the game itself is good enought...

[Opus131]

Beelze said:
Anyone playing on an role-playing server? If so, what's it like? I heard that "Silver Hand" is a good RP server.



That's my server at the moment.

Now, up untill very recently, i was mostly a soloer, so i didn't see a lot of roleplaying taking place (at first), but compared to other servers (particularly PVP servers), it has a farily good community.

One of the things i feared the most when signing up for this game was having to play with all the Battle.net idiots.

The bad news is that the idiots, the d00dz and everything that ruined Diablo II for me are all present.

The good news is that, at least in this server, there are a lot of mature and easy going folks around to compensate.

I've been parying a lot this last few days, and whilst most of the people i played with were obviously rather young (i suppose i shouldn't expect to play a video game and hope to find adults there http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif ), they were all pretty sociable, fair, and easy going, and it was an overall excellent experience.

Now, as far as roleplaying goes.

Ideally, aside for general chat, everything you say in the game as to be said in character.

On a pratical level, there is really no enforced rule and you can pretty much talk like you wish as long as you use some common sense and don't start bringing real life things into the game (something of the effect of 'yo d00dz i gotta take a dump and then i need to run to get some sigarettes wait me up' isn't going to get you far into this server).

Basically, the idea is not to ruin the experience of those who want to roleplay, so even if you don't wish to talk like some medieval suck up, as long as you are considerate of people who want to roleplay, it's all good.

Out of chraracter talk it's of course possible as long as you specify it's out of character.

All this applies to ingame chat only, general chat is pretty much open to whatever you want to do.

Now, speaking of roleplaying, aside for the random encounter with a true roleplayers, i think this is mostly done in guilds, generally speaking, most people are 'mild' roleplayers.

There are a few guilds in particular where roleplaying it's taken very seriously and many of the members are very good at it.

Just the other day i witnessed a conversation beetween two members from two distinct different guilds talking in character and it was quite enthralling to whatch.

[Vexed]

What happens if you break that roleplaying rule?

[Opus131]

Vexed said:
What happens if you break that roleplaying rule?



To tell you the truth, i don't know.

There are different ways GM deal with conduct offenders, but those actions are generally meant for grief and harassament, i don't know if not roleplaying on a RP server befalls under those rules (you can get your account suspended for stuff like harassement, i don't think a GM would got that far just because you didn't roleplay and some guy reported you).

I don't think the server is moderated yet (can it ever be at all ?!?), so it's more of an unwritten rule that everybody automatically agrees upon.

On the other hand, sometime those GMs seems pretty quick to respond to account offenders.

A friend of mine had a warning of suspention on his CoH because of slander towards another player, so the treath it's always hanging in there...

[Reaper978]

their buissness model centers around the idea of paying for expansions rather then have a monthly fee.


From what I can see, this is not true.

From the FAQ:


Do I have to pay for online updates, such as patches?
There are no hidden fees. You will not have to pay for the streaming updates that will take place on a regular basis, nor for additional content that we will provide between the chapters of Guild Wars.


Here's another nice feature:


But perhaps more importantly, our online network allows us to stream content to your computer, so you will always have the most current version of the game, and will play in a world that can change on a continuous basis.

[MetroidPrime]

Ok, so what's $15 times 100,000 people per month? That would be $1,500,000 per month. Now add all the money blizzard received for the purchase of the game:

$50 (price of game) times 100,000 people = $5,000,000

And that's not counting all the people who bought the special edition which, if I am not mistaken, was $80 or around there. I am no master on this stuff, but do they really need that much money for the upkeep? And that's just the sales on the first day, it's going to be growing. That's how I figure.

Also, if it does indeed take $1,500,000 per month to cover everything, tell me. I honestly don't know.




It's really obvious you know nothing about business.
After all the costs of staff, production, lawyers etc. is covered, there has to be that little something called incentive

And you know what? While Chris Metzen and Rob Pardo probably don't care *that* much about the financial aspect as much as they simply love their WarCraft world they created, Vivendi most certainly does.

I think what you fail to grasp is that in order for such a massive and beautiful game to be created there has to be an incentive, why else go through the trouble of maintaining a MMO?

And the more money Blizzard makes the better, because it will give them all the leeway they need to put in content and produce expansions..Northrend, Draenor..all yet to be done.

[thefly]

I REALLY like WoW. I haven't played it, and I've only seen a few screens. But it most CERTAINLY has pulled people away from City of Heroes (yup, I've been playing CoH since July). Anyway, the CoH servers are hardly ever crowded since WoW came out, so that makes me happy. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Opus131]

Reaper978 said:
From what I can see, this is not true.




I'm talking about retail EXPANTIONS, not updates or patches.

You WILL have to pay for those, however, at least you are paying for something that is visible and concrete rather then just dish a monthly fee and 'hope' for new content to be developed...

[Reaper978]

It's really obvious you know nothing about business.


....And? I'm not pretending to be an economics major. Yet, does this change the numbers I calculated in any way? Those numbers are obsolete too, as London_Midge pointed out earlier:

From Gamespot (http://www.gamespot.com/news/2004/12/02/news_6114348.html):

Released on November 23, World of Warcraft sold more than 350,000 copies by the end of this past weekend.




After all the costs of staff, production, lawyers etc. is covered, there has to be that little something called incentive


Sure there is. I didn't state that they should've broke completely even on the game, just saying that they are probably charging too much. Your position may not be this way, but people seem to want to use the "companies are out to make money" argument to cloak unfairness to the consumer.


I think what you fail to grasp is that in order for such a massive and beautiful game to be created there has to be an incentive, why else go through the trouble of maintaining a MMO?


Once again, I didn't say that they should've broke dead even on the game. Monthly payments probably are required to some degree, just not nearly at the level that they are currently.


And the more money Blizzard makes the better


This isn't about blizzard. It's about charging the consumer a fair (rather, unfair) amount. I don't pin this whole situation on Blizzard, though they certainly aren't making any effort to change it. They could make a real difference, especially with the clout they hold in the gaming business.

[Taril]

Reaper, yea people can have their own opinions. But so can I..

Oh, and btw.. Thats good for you, that ive lost your respect, cause I could care less. Your nobody to me..

[Reaper978]

But so can I..


So you insult others for having a differing opinion? You can debate with them maturely or you can leave. Personal insults do nothing but cause people to dislike you, and get the thread locked or deleted.


Thats good for you, that ive lost your respect, cause I could care less.


I didn't expect you to care. I simply stated I lost respect for you. If you had been polite and mature about it I would've gained a lot of respect for you but you decided not to be.

It's not like I am trying to be egotistical about it either, just giving you a heads up on what other people are probably thinking. Unless I am completely wrong about that, in which case I take it back.

[dreweth]

Reaper978 said:

and the business model obviously supports itself and it's customer base.


Who cares if it supports itself and it works, does it seem correct to you?



It's obvious that I'm fine with it. Otherwise I would talk with my wallet and say no.


In a particularly extreme case, take for example a world where parents, for some reason, don't care about their children and are fine with the idea of sending their children off to forced labor camps where they are abused and subjected to horrendous conditions. One could easily claim that "The parents don't have a problem with it, so the system works." Just because it works doesn't make it right.



That is the ******* craziest thing I have ever read. Today. I don't need to follow that up with an actual response, do I? You aren't really trying to compare the two, are you?


Why do you put quotation marks around the word "numbers"? Are the numbers which I just showed you untrue?



The part you, and others, don't seem to grasp, is that this is only one side of the picture. I shouldn't have to give an economics class AND a business class to you for you to figure it out.


That $14.99 goes for bandwidth, nothing more, despite what anyone else tries to tell me.



Midge, have you ever played this game, or this type of game before? I'm seriously asking, because I respect you, and I can only blame ignorance rather than stupidity.

With a customer base of more than 300k, do you really think that bandwidth is their only conern? Customer service over the phone, email, billing issues, in game support and GMs, a HUGE network team of highly paid and qualified network engineers, constant network upgrades and engineering. Not to mention, benefits for employees, TAXES (why hasn't this one come up, I wonder), and does anyone believe that the DOUBLING of server space came for free? These servers and equipement are state of the art machines, and require engineers to maintain. These are people who will CONTINUE to be paid and needed for years after the launch.

Continuing, in the vain hopes that this will end someday, somewhere, and in this thread: marketing, shipping, design, product development costs including office space, employees with benefits, computers and equipment.

Who really thinks that the retailers don't take a cut for selling it?

Vinvedi Universal has spent millions promoting and selling the game, and has stockholders and investors they are paying divedends to.

I'm sure Blizzard needs money to front their new game, also.

Now, even after ommiting tons of costs I haven't thought of or don't know about, let's talk about bandwidth. Bandwith is expensive, yes, but it's only a cut. A decent cut. Part of the ongoing cut. But there's your bandwidth.

Look, the other side of the coin, Reaper!

[Reaper978]

That is the ******* craziest thing I have ever read. Today.


Note the "In a particularly extreme case..." It was an example used to illustrate my point that just because something works out doesn't make it right. It was an extreme example. I am not trying to directly compare the two.


The part you, and others, don't seem to grasp, is that this is only one side of the picture. I shouldn't have to give an economics class AND a business class to you for you to figure it out.


Please, tell me what I am unable to grasp, since you are so sure about that. I have already stated that I know the companies need money to stay afloat. That is obvious. They need profit? Sure. What I don't think they need, however, is millions upon millions of dollars coming in every month on top of the many millions they got from the purchase of the game.


With a customer base of more than 300k, do you really think that bandwidth is their only conern? Customer service over the phone, email, billing issues, in game support and GMs, a HUGE network team of highly paid and qualified network engineers, constant network upgrades and engineering. Not to mention, benefits for employees, TAXES (why hasn't this one come up, I wonder), and does anyone believe that the DOUBLING of server space came for free? These servers and equipement are state of the art machines, and require engineers to maintain. These are people who will CONTINUE to be paid and needed for years after the launch.


Email? Come on, you know some of those things are fairly minor. And yes I do realize that there needs to be some kind of monthly fee.


Who really thinks that the retailers don't take a cut for selling it?


I'm fairly sure no one does.


Look, the other side of the coin, Reaper!


I've stated numerous times that I understand that the companies need money and a monthly fee to run these games. Please attempt to listen to me. I'm not trying to attach a horrible, evil corporation image to Blizzard, I just think that they are charging too much every month.

Look, you can see that I don't have any real evidence that they don't need the money, but it's really hard to believe that they do. You yourself said that they have over 300k people signed up, right? As far as I can tell, that would create over 4.5 million dollars for blizzard each month, and the number of people signed up is bound to increase. I'll even give you an extra 1.5 million for profit. Does it take 3 million dollars each month to run this company? It would be interesting to know. And I admit, I am just short of completely clueless of how these things work.

[Beelze]

Is it/will it be impossible for europeans to play with americans/asians?

[Sailboat]

So I hear WoW is really great, but what's so great about it?
I have only played one MMORPG and that is Asheron's Calls 2, got bored of that game in about a month or so.

I hear WoW is a lot better than other MMORPG's, but how?
My friend is trying to convince me to buy WoW, and I'm gonna go check it out later today, but it would be good to have some other people's opinions on this game.
Thanks.

[Vexed]

^ Did you read any posts in this thread? http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[Fat John]

My dad bought a key to WOW for £3 (the European release is next year), and Beta testing starts next month. My question is, will I be able to play it too (on another computer)?

[Fat John]

Fat John said:
My dad bought a key to WOW for £3 (the European release is next year), and Beta testing starts next month. My question is, will I be able to play it too (on another computer)?

[Pepe]

Only one person can play at a time, you can of course create your own character and play from your computer, just not at the same time.

BTW, I'm downloading the new client right know (for about 24 hours now), and yay i am already at 54%

Bittorrent (or this version) is crap.

also I have no idea why you would want to pay for a beta, I hear you could get a code if you preordered the game, but I seriously doubt that selling or buying keys is very legit or smart for that matter

[Soilwork]

I got myself the free 10 day trial, it's quite neat so far..

Still not sure if I wanna pay a monthly fee though, I have enough bills to worry about.

http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

But definately a quality product, Blizzard rocks.

[ADM]

I just bought World of Warcraft today, my first real attempt at a MMORPG.

I have no idea how well it would run because it seems I can see any realms..

Anyone else with WOW have this problem?

The only server that shows up as the "closest" for me is United States, even though I'm in Australia.

My first questions is, is there a way to choose a server I want? Like Europe or something?

Second question is, how long are these realms down for? I want to play tonight http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[ADM]

Ok it seems all servers are down until 11am PDT -- so another 4 hours to go.. hopefully I'll be up by then, most likely I will be.

Still this question still stands:


is there a way to choose a server I want? Like Europe or something?

[Fat John]

The game is localized, allowing Blizzard to restrict your access to servers. So no.

[dreweth]

Ya, tuesday is maintenance day. Seems like tuesday is usually one of my days off, and it sucks! Servers don't tend to get up and about till, oh, 1 pm est.

[ADM]

Yeah just over 2 hours left http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

[Fat John]

I started playing again yesterday and it's pretty good so far. I'm a level 9 Orcish warlock, and I have a minion called Apabad.

I pretend he has down's syndrome.

[Van Hamies]

that's just mean

[Fat John]

He pissed me off by getting himself killed, so I gave him dyslexia as well.

Poor bastard.

[Oasiz]

This is a game that i really need to get. I saw my friend playing it for a few days when i was at his house for a little LAN session. I think that the monthly pay is OK, since it keeps annoying idiots out of the game. Also the payment engourages more updates and new stuff. For example: my friend said to me that there comes a new update very frequently and they usually contain a new area (dungeon). So its like almost a never ending game. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Of course he might be talking BullSh*t, but the game looks and feels wonderful !

[Simon Charles]

is there a way to choose a server I want? Like Europe or something?



No. North american copies of WoW will connect to North american servers, and vice-versa. My boss had to buy and ship a north american copy to her sister in France just so they could play together.

By the way, I'm Amanna, a lvl 30 human priest on Illidan. If anyone needs a girl who likes to keep all the guys around her healthy, add me!

Anecdote :

While waiting in queue for Battlegrounds, I stripped naked and started dancing. Sure enough, guys around me started cheering and saying stupid stuff. So I said "Hey, if you're going to stare and hoot, you should at least give me some money!"

After 30 seconds, I made 10 silver. True story.

[Van Hamies]

Naked Simon Charles http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/love.gif http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Synti]

Oasiz said:
since it keeps annoying idiots out of the game.



Unfortunately it doesen't.

Don't get me wrong. I love the game, but it's full of shitheaded morons.

[Travis]

I'd get WoW, but I wouldn't play it regularly enough to warrant paying the monthly fees.

[Simon Charles]

Synti said:

Oasiz said:
since it keeps annoying idiots out of the game.



Unfortunately it doesen't.

Don't get me wrong. I love the game, but it's full of shitheaded morons.



This is a sad, sad truth. The monthly fee hasn't warded morons away. Not by a longshot.

Still, people tell me that now with Battlegrounds, high-level morons don't gank the low guys so much. You can even do quests around Southshore and Tarren Mill again, and you're not being bothered by, say, a lvl 57 Rogue who cloaks and cheap shots you as you're trying to kill a wolf.

[Pansa]

Simon Charles said:

is there a way to choose a server I want? Like Europe or something?



No. North american copies of WoW will connect to North american servers, and vice-versa. My boss had to buy and ship a north american copy to her sister in France just so they could play together.



i think you can edit a file in your wowfolder to connect to the other realms,

cant remember how it is done again , but the "freeshard" players know how...

so , found it , here goes ..
there is a "realmlist.wtf" in my (the euroversion) it says "set realmlist eu.logon.worldofwarcraft.com"
maybe just change to EU<->US or vice versa..

wouldnt recommend it though , crossing half the world just adds aprox 200ms to your ping.. which isnt great at times to begin with