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Locnor
02-26-2005, 06:57 PM
I'm sure some people will be groaning about the new issue. PC Gamer does the 50 best games of all time.

Here is the FULL LIST:

1 - Half-Life (1998)
2 - Doom (1995)
3 - Civ 2
4 - Half-Life 2
5 - WarCraft 3 - Tides of Darkness
6 - Diablo
7 - Starcraft
8 - X-Com UFO Defense
9 - Battlefield 1942
10 - Fallout
11 - Baldur's Gate
12 - GTA 3
13 - Star Wars - Tie Fighter
14 - Ghost Recon
15 - Duke Nukem 3d
16 – Diablo 2
17 - C&C: Red Alert
18 - FarCry
19 – Knights of the Old Republic
20 – Call of Duty
21 – Jedi Knight – Dark Forces II
22 – Rainbow 6
23 – The Sims
24 - Everquest
25 – Heroes of Might and Magic 3
26 - Quake
27 - Deus Ex
28 – Need For Speed – Porsche Unleashed
29 – SimCity 2000
30 – UT 2004
31 – Mechwarrior 2
32 – Ultima IV: Quest of the Avatar
33 – The Beast Within – A Gabriel Knight Mystery
34 – Total Annihilation
35 - Neverwinter Nights
36 – Rise of Nations
37 - Tomb Raider
38 – Beavis and Butthead Virtual Stupidity
39 - System Shock 2
40 – IL-2 Sturmovik – Forgotten Battles
41 - Max Payne
42 – Panzer General
43 – High Heat ML Baseball 2002
44 – Master of Orion
45 – Sam and Max hit the road
46 - Homeworld
47 - Worms Armageddon
48 – Wing Commander 3
49 – Secret of Monkey Island
50 – Freedom Force

Hudson
02-26-2005, 07:02 PM
Locnor said:
(Doom3 is not on the list)



And both Half-Life's were mentioned? Heh ouch http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/redface.gif

System Shock 2 should have gotten a much higher score IMO.

Ivan
02-26-2005, 07:04 PM
1 - Half-Life (1998)



Excellent Choice.


4 - Half-Life 2



I would have put that higher


6 - Diablo



Agreed. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/love.gif


7 - Starcraft



Double Agreed http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/love.gif http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/love.gif


9 - Battlefield 1942



Too high imo


14 - Ghost Recon



Too high too :myruck:


15 - Duke Nukem 3d



http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/love.gif


41 - Max Payne



Too low, I would have put it between 15 and 10..

Not a bad list.. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/love.gif

Mountain Man
02-26-2005, 07:04 PM
I'm surprised they put WarCraft 3 ahead of StarCraft, let alone that it ranked so highly.

Claws
02-26-2005, 07:06 PM
LoL, what a crock of shit. Oh well it's just their opinion, and their opinion stinks. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

The list seems to be more like best sellers of all time than best games of all time.

Vexed
02-26-2005, 07:06 PM
X-com is on there! http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/love.gif

PlayfulPuppy
02-26-2005, 07:17 PM
Hudson said:
System Shock 2 should have gotten a much higher score IMO.



Damn straight. It should have been at least above 20. Those that dont agree, go play it again.

Also, am I the only person who thinks Half-Life is not the best damned game ever? I mean, it was good, but was it that good?

0marTheZealot
02-26-2005, 07:22 PM
Mountain Man said:
I'm surprised they put WarCraft 3 ahead of StarCraft, let alone that it ranked so highly.



The consensus among real players is that War3 is absolute crap compared to StarCraft.

Jblade
02-26-2005, 07:37 PM
Vexed said:
X-com is on there! http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/love.gif


Glad here too http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/love.gif X-com is one of those games that has just about unlimited replay ability, can't count how many times I go back to play it again http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Gryph
02-26-2005, 07:58 PM
System Shock 2, Max Payne, and Duke Nukem 3D should be higher.

Ghost Recon, Warcraft 3, Far Cry, and Tomb Raider should be lower.

Atleast, that's how I would rate them.

Lengis
02-26-2005, 07:58 PM
I'm glad Fallout made the list, and beat out baulder's gate.

>>>>>>5 - WarCraft 3 - Tides of Darkness

The subtitle is incorrect. It's Warcraft 3 Reign of Chaos. Unless you meant Warcraft 2......

Either way, Starcraft was the better game. Actually, it should have been number 1. Half Life didn't age well at all. I have no idea why they put it at number 1.

IwantMORE
02-26-2005, 07:58 PM
Claws said:
LoL, what a crock of shit. Oh well it's just their opinion, and their opinion stinks. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

The list seems to be more like best sellers of all time than best games of all time.



1) Sims
2) Myst

Best selling games of all time

I kind of agree with the top 5 although I always prefered Doom2 never understood why D1 is still considered better but I guess that's what the majority think.

Of corse any list like this is subjective but it don't seem to far out.

I love warcraft 3 and would have put warcraft 2 up there somewhere too.

Locnor
02-26-2005, 08:21 PM
I updated it to the full list. Go back up.

Ivan
02-26-2005, 08:26 PM
Locnor said:
I updated it to the full list. Go back up.



http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/thumbsup.gif

UT2K4 should be higher imo.

SyntaxN
02-26-2005, 08:29 PM
27 - Deus Ex http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/doh.gif
Should be on place 3 or 4 imo!

Imfamous
02-26-2005, 08:35 PM
Lengis said:


Either way, Starcraft was the better game. Actually, it should have been number 1. Half Life didn't age well at all. I have no idea why they put it at number 1.



Agreed. I logged 6 hours into Starcraft today. Can't remember playing Half-Life once since I beat it in 2001.

HL2 at 4? Are they on crack? Didn't even finish that linear rail shooter from boredom.

No mention of Doom 2? One of the greatest games ever; surpassed the original in every way possible. 32 fricken levels! http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif

Putting WC3 ahead of SC is hillarious.

A better list would have been something like...

1- Doom 2
2- Command & Conquer
3-Starcraft
4- Red Alert
5- Duke 3D
6- Diablo
7- Deus Ex
8- Diablo 2
9- Descent 2
10- Battlezone

IwantMORE
02-26-2005, 08:41 PM
Elite should be in the top 10

Ivan
02-26-2005, 08:46 PM
Either way, Starcraft was the better game



Starcraft should be like #2. I played it for more than 10 hours in 3 days and I still want more!!

Doom shouldn't be that high: it was good but, come on.

Tedski
02-26-2005, 08:48 PM
PlayfulPuppy said:

Hudson said:
System Shock 2 should have gotten a much higher score IMO.



Damn straight. It should have been at least above 20. Those that dont agree, go play it again.

Also, am I the only person who thinks Half-Life is not the best damned game ever? I mean, it was good, but was it that good?



No it wasn't that good at all, you are absolutely right in that.
As with all these things, it would be interesting to see their criteria for choosing.

someguy2435
02-26-2005, 08:50 PM
too low: Deus Ex, Sims, Duke Nukem, Max Payne

laffer
02-26-2005, 08:53 PM
Only one Monkey Island game that far down on the list?? I think both the first MI games should be somewhere near the top. It's clear that they don't appreciate point and click adventure games very much.

AutoPilot
02-26-2005, 09:03 PM
It's hard for me to comment on lists of this type because I only play shooters and flight sims. I don't play RPG or strategy or adventure, etc. So I don't know if KOTOR really is better than Call Of Duty or not quite as good as Far Cry, or whatever.

Offhand I KNOW that IL-Sturmovik should be higher than it is. And where is "No One Lives Forever" and "Max Payne 2"? They certainly beat the hell out of NFS-Porsche Unleashed, MechWarrior 2, Tomb Raider, and Bevis & Butthead.

Although this list is entitled "Best" games, they've made lists like this before and usually call them "most important" games ever made. I think these choices seem more like games that had some kind of impact on their respective genres at their time, as to just simply "Best". Still, NOLF should be somewhere in the top third; developers are "still" copying things in that game today.

....and other than being open-ended and non-linear, WTF is so great about BF 1942, or GTA-3 to put them up so high?

-=AutoPilot=-

John
02-26-2005, 09:09 PM
38 – Beavis and Butthead Virtual Stupidity
39 - System Shock 2



http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mryuck.gif

And they put Ghost Recon above Duke3d?

Lasakon
02-26-2005, 09:10 PM
That has to be the worst list ever. Way of the mark there PC Gamer, Where is Jagged Alliance 2, Why is Half Life #1 and why are Baldur's Gate and Neverwinter Nights on there?

Paroxysm
02-26-2005, 09:27 PM
Eh it's just someones oppinion. The vast majority of games on that list wouldn't even make an appearance on mine.

AutoPilot
02-26-2005, 09:46 PM
Yeah, the more I think about this list, the more I dislike it.

The strange thing is, P.C. Gamer is definately one of the best there is when it comes to game reviews and GOTY awards.

-=AutoPilot

Taril
02-26-2005, 09:50 PM
The fact that they claim that Beavis and Butthead game as one of the greatest of all time, discredits that list.
The other thing is I think these lists are pointless. You can't really say theirs a best game of all time cause 5 or 10 years from now their could be all new games on top of this list. Unless games stop being made this is just pointless..

Mountain Man
02-26-2005, 10:17 PM
0marTheZealot said:

Mountain Man said:
I'm surprised they put WarCraft 3 ahead of StarCraft, let alone that it ranked so highly.



The consensus among real players is that War3 is absolute crap compared to StarCraft.


Heh...I actually liked WarCraft 3 better than StarCraft, but in terms of industry impact, StarCraft is way ahead of the pack. It's also arguably the better game from an objective standpoint even if I prefered WC3.

Ecmaster76
02-26-2005, 10:27 PM
Baldur's gate was good, but I don't know about Neverwinter Nights, never played the expansions, but I thought Dungeon siege was better.

I guess Quake was on there for the MP. If not then Unreal should have been on the list cause it had a better SP.

Mech2 owns, but they should have put Mech2:Mercenaries on there if they were going to put a mech game on.

Where was Planescape? Why was Deus Ex so low? Why was Duke not numer one? http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Taril
02-26-2005, 10:30 PM
Im not sure about Baldur's Gate, if anything it should have been Baldurs Gate 2 on there, not the first one.. Since 2 is ALOT better.

I still have System Shock 2.. I wish I could play it.. But it does'nt like XP... http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Locnor
02-26-2005, 10:30 PM
The title of the article is "The 50 Best Games of All Time".

But the comments they make about each game sound more like...The 50 most Influential games of all time.

for example....

Duke Nukem: Balls-out action, outrageous humor, gyrating strippers, Duke injected the shooter game with personality.

Call of Duty: The terror, suspense and exhilaration of war have never been so vividly presented.

Quake: Took Doom's deathmatch to the next step, in real 3d and with a Big F----ng Gun.

Tomb Raider: Despite this franchise's implosion, the original game was an action-packed innovation.

Baldur's Gate: It became the standard by which all other RPGs would be judged, especially those using the D&D licnese.

John
02-26-2005, 10:30 PM
I wonder why Quake was so low. It was the first true 3d FPS, was it not? Opened alot of doors.

Even though it's competition ripped it to shreads. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif (Duke3d)

Mountain Man
02-26-2005, 10:32 PM
Locnor said:
The title of the article is "The 50 Best Games of All Time".

But the comments they make about each game sound more like...The 50 most Influential games of all time.


That actually makes a lot of sense, because judging a game's influence on the industry is less subjective than trying to figure out which are the "best".

Gryph
02-26-2005, 10:33 PM
Eric19 said:
Im not sure about Baldur's Gate, if anything it should have been Baldurs Gate 2 on there, not the first one.. Since 2 is ALOT better.

I still have System Shock 2.. I wish I could play it.. But it does'nt like XP... http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif



Version 2.03 works on XP. I have XP and I just reinstalled it. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif I'm playing as Navy this time.

DudeMiester
02-26-2005, 10:45 PM
That list is a POS work of total BS, a wretched streak of feces on the face of gaming, a disgusting maggot of human depravity! It doesn't have Chrono Trigger.

KaiserSoze
02-26-2005, 10:48 PM
no way in hell duke3d is 15. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif

it's definately a top 5 game(#1) imho.

Water12356
02-26-2005, 10:54 PM
28 – Need For Speed – Porsche Unleashed



WTF? Gran Turismo 2 is 80,000 times better.

Taril
02-26-2005, 10:55 PM
DudeMiester said:
That list is a POS work of total BS, a wretched streak of feces on the face of gaming, a disgusting maggot of human depravity! It doesn't have Chrono Trigger.



*shakes head* Thats a console game man. This is the list for All-time best PC games.. And no Chrono trigger on an Emulator does'nt count. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/doh.gif

John
02-26-2005, 10:57 PM
It could have atleast had an Elders Scrolls title.

Gryph
02-26-2005, 11:03 PM
Eric19 said:

DudeMiester said:
That list is a POS work of total BS, a wretched streak of feces on the face of gaming, a disgusting maggot of human depravity! It doesn't have Chrono Trigger.



*shakes head* Thats a console game man. This is the list for All-time best PC games.. And no Chrono trigger on an Emulator does'nt count. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/doh.gif



I think he was joking. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

DudeMiester
02-26-2005, 11:07 PM
lol, in my blatent fanboyism I missed that minor detail. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/redface.gif

DissidentRage
02-26-2005, 11:41 PM
15th? What. That is a fallacy if I've ever seen one.

AutoPilot
02-27-2005, 12:20 AM
Unreal is not on the list either!

How could they miss Unreal.

Geeze - PC Gamer just just went down another notch in my book with this list.

The distrubing thing is they *did* have a poll on their website asking for everyones opinion. They did their homework, but I can't beleive the results.

-=AutoPilot=-

Doppelgofer
02-27-2005, 12:42 AM
cannot believe unreal isn't on there.....shit heads don't know anything

Kev_Hectic
02-27-2005, 01:18 AM
PlayfulPuppy said:
Also, am I the only person who thinks Half-Life is not the best damned game ever? I mean, it was good, but was it that good?



No, I feel the same way, PP. HL was a good game, but I never thought it was "best PC game ever" good.

And, I'd love to know their reasoning for putting Beavis & Butthead: Virtual Stupidity on that list. What an odd choice.

John
02-27-2005, 01:30 AM
And how it was ranked higher than System Shock 2. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif

Beelze
02-27-2005, 02:21 AM
Ivan said:
Doom shouldn't be that high: it was good but, come on.


I agree. I see several games on that list, and can think of many games not on that list, which could replace it. Some say this seems to be a list of the most influental games, but that doesn't make a lot of sense. Half-Life 2 hasn't been around that long, so how do they know it's one of the most influental games in the world already?

ZealoT
02-27-2005, 02:50 AM
pc-gamer, what a bunch of shitheads.. they can cram their list up their asses.

Acid
02-27-2005, 03:30 AM
Duke 3d should be higher #3 http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif ..

RedSplat
02-27-2005, 05:14 AM
I miss Day Of The Tentacle.
http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif

NetNessie
02-27-2005, 05:16 AM
ZealoT said:
pc-gamer, what a bunch of shitheads.. they can cram their list up their asses.



Someones annoyed at something... http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif

seregrail7
02-27-2005, 05:35 AM
I just can't believe Deus Ex isn't #1, that game is amazing.

Tang Lung
02-27-2005, 06:18 AM
That list is boring. Stop boring everyone.

Half Life isn't as good as people make it out to be, and Morrowind should be on there, as well as Unreal 1. And Deus Ex should be wayyyyyyyyy higher. It was about 643764873 times better than Half Life 2.

Cerberus_e
02-27-2005, 06:19 AM
Imfamous said:
HL2 at 4? Are they on crack? Didn't even finish that linear rail shooter from boredom.

No mention of Doom 2? One of the greatest games ever; surpassed the original in every way possible. 32 fricken levels! http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif





So you say HL2 is boring because it's linear, but Doom 2 should be high in the list? it's also linear.

but I agree, their opinion doesn't count:)
it looks like they claim that their opinion is final word.
I would have put Duke3d much higher, but I haven't played most of the games higher in the list.
I'm still not bored with Duke3d

and where is wolfenstein 3D?
if that isn't an infuental game, I don't know anymore...

Paroxysm
02-27-2005, 06:41 AM
seregrail7 said:
I just can't believe Deus Ex isn't #1, that game is amazing.



And there's the problem with lists like this. I wouldn't even have that game on my top 50, possibly not even on my top 100. People are going to bitch no matter what.

IwantMORE
02-27-2005, 07:02 AM
Cerberus_e said:
So you say HL2 is boring because it's linear, but Doom 2 should be high in the list? it's also linear.

and where is wolfenstein 3D?
if that isn't an infuental game, I don't know anymore...



Actually Doom 2 wasn not linear, which is one of the things that makes it great, it was designed more for deathmatch and there are many ways to complete most levels.

Also they do not say these are the top 50 influential games of all time, just the Best games and that's always objective.

seregrail7
02-27-2005, 07:26 AM
Paroxysm said:

seregrail7 said:
I just can't believe Deus Ex isn't #1, that game is amazing.



And there's the problem with lists like this. I wouldn't even have that game on my top 50, possibly not even on my top 100. People are going to bitch no matter what.


Yup, everyone has a different Best Game Ever.

IwantMORE
02-27-2005, 07:31 AM
If you are talking number of hours played no game has sucked away more of my life than Tetris

Cerberus_e
02-27-2005, 07:32 AM
IwantMORE said:

Cerberus_e said:
So you say HL2 is boring because it's linear, but Doom 2 should be high in the list? it's also linear.

and where is wolfenstein 3D?
if that isn't an infuental game, I don't know anymore...



Actually Doom 2 wasn not linear, which is one of the things that makes it great, it was designed more for deathmatch and there are many ways to complete most levels.

Also they do not say these are the top 50 influential games of all time, just the Best games and that's always objective.



come on.... doom 2 is linear (I've only played half of it).
I don't know of many places where there are 2 ways to reach a keycard or something...
Doom 1 was more open.

IwantMORE
02-27-2005, 08:13 AM
" doom 2 is linear (I've only played half of it)."

Spoken like a true professional.

Kristian Joensen
02-27-2005, 08:21 AM
No, way Duke3D isn't the 15th best game of all tiem, it is the best game of all tiem.

It is 1000000 times a good as all those games put together.

Cerberus_e
02-27-2005, 08:27 AM
IwantMORE said:
" doom 2 is linear (I've only played half of it)."

Spoken like a true professional.



well, and the first half of it was linear http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dopefish.gif
and I've played ultimate doom. 4 episodes, 95% of the levels are linear.

so I still don't get why doom 2 is so much better than HL2

someguy2435
02-27-2005, 08:40 AM
AutoPilot said:
Unreal is not on the list either!

How could they miss Unreal.

Geeze - PC Gamer just just went down another notch in my book with this list.

The distrubing thing is they *did* have a poll on their website asking for everyones opinion. They did their homework, but I can't beleive the results.

-=AutoPilot=-



Quoted for Emphasis to all of you who haven't read the entire thread.

Mountain Man
02-27-2005, 08:54 AM
It's interesting how intolerant people can be become when their opinions are challenged.

laffer
02-27-2005, 09:23 AM
How about Kings Quest 1? If it's a list of influential games, that one should definately be on there. It was the first animated "3D" adventure game.
Also, Monkey Island should be much higher up on the list since that was one of the first truely funny adventure games.
Or how about KQ4, the first game using a soundcard?

Duoae
02-27-2005, 09:37 AM
Mountain Man said:
It's interesting how intolerant people can be become when their opinions are challenged.



Yes it is, isn't it.

laffer
02-27-2005, 09:52 AM
Since when did it become intolerant to disagree?

Beelze
02-27-2005, 10:02 AM
laffer said:
Since when did it become intolerant to disagree?


No one said that.

Mountain Man
02-27-2005, 10:25 AM
laffer said:
Since when did it become intolerant to disagree?


I was referring specifically to comments like "pc-gamer, what a bunch of shitheads.. they can cram their list up their asses" and "That list is a POS work of total BS, a wretched streak of feces on the face of gaming, a disgusting maggot of human depravity!" among others.

X-Vector
02-27-2005, 11:05 AM
I don't understand why people get worked up over a list based on such an obviously fallacious concept.

There is no such thing as "best game(s) ever".

Imfamous
02-27-2005, 12:20 PM
Ivan said:

Either way, Starcraft was the better game



Starcraft should be like #2. I played it for more than 10 hours in 3 days and I still want more!!

Doom shouldn't be that high: it was good but, come on.



Have you played Doom 2? It's better than the original Doom in every way! Play it Ivan! http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Also, I CANNOT BELIEVE Battlezone and Descent 2 didn't make that list.

Kev_Boy
02-27-2005, 01:14 PM
Paroxysm said:

seregrail7 said:
I just can't believe Deus Ex isn't #1, that game is amazing.



And there's the problem with lists like this. I wouldn't even have that game on my top 50, possibly not even on my top 100. People are going to bitch no matter what.



Same scenario for me, but different games: Starcraft and Warcraft.

Dr.Dude
02-27-2005, 02:07 PM
Y'know, it looks almost nothing like my "Top 50" would look like (For instance, Duke still takes the top spot as far as I'm concerned), but seeing as it's pretty much just another person's opinion it doesn't make much of a difference to me.

Don't see how anyone can get all annoyed and worked up over someone else's top 50 being different from their own. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif Unless the other person's opinion is being shoved down their throats as the "truth", but I don't think PC Gamer is doing that here.

jimbob
02-27-2005, 02:17 PM
RedSplat said:
I miss Day Of The Tentacle.
http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif

or the original maniac mansion http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
or even full throttle

hell, all of the lucas arts adventures are better than ghost recon http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

FireFly
02-27-2005, 02:32 PM
I think many of their choices are sound. Glad they recognised Total Annihilation.

Their decision to rank Deus Ex at #27 is a little puzzling as they rated it 94%.

Claws
02-27-2005, 02:33 PM
Wow Planescape: Torment isn't even on that list? C'mon! I mean C'MON!

John
02-27-2005, 02:37 PM
*Shrugs* I know it's their opinion, but PC Gamers is alittle different than your usual fanboyish Gamer site/magazine. They are respectable and usually articulate with their game reviews, so this list kind of makes me question their integrity with Gaming. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

I mean, Beavis and Butthead:Virtual Stupidity is on there, and it's above System Shock 2. Duke's 15 (which is just my opinion, I get it, alright.) But Half Life 4 is at 4????

That's just fanboyish-actions on PC Gamers part. Half Life 2 just came out man...How can it get on the 50 Best PC Gamers of ALL TIME, and be so high on the list?

Oh well. Enough ranting for today. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

FireFly
02-27-2005, 02:40 PM
If they hadn't put in on the list they would have been flamed to death, but where should it go? 50th because it's just been released, even though they rated it 98%?

John
02-27-2005, 02:41 PM
Flamed to death, pfft. Why would they care? They are supposed to be above all that internet crap.

This list isn't exactly going to get them the greatest responses, as you can see.

Cerberus_e
02-27-2005, 02:49 PM
the reason some people hate this list here is probably because the list is and will be viewed by 1000s of people that buy PCgamer.

Lengis
02-27-2005, 03:43 PM
Ecmaster76 said:
Mech2 owns, but they should have put Mech2:Mercenaries on there if they were going to put a mech game on.




I thought Mech 2 Mercs was the better game too. It was buggy as hell, but damn. The single player campagin was just so much fun, with the salvage, and cash resources. I still play it to this day.


No StarControl 2, but Tomb Raider made the list? Blasphamy!

Dues Ex should have been much higher as well.

Few games I thought should have made the list,

Giants: Citizen Kabuto
Fallout 2 (it was better than the first)
StarControl 2
CounterStrike (HalfLife didn't age well, but this did.)
SpaceQuest 4 (the best in the series. )

Cerberus_e
02-27-2005, 03:47 PM
Lengis said:
CounterStrike (HalfLife didn't age well, but this did.)




counterstrike = Half-Life.
if a simple mod counts as a game... http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

and if everyone wants their game on the list, why not making it the 1000 best games of all-time then

Lengis
02-27-2005, 03:48 PM
Cerberus_e said:

Lengis said:
CounterStrike (HalfLife didn't age well, but this did.)




counterstrike = Half-Life.
if a simple mod counts as a game... http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif




That simple mod was a hell of a lot more fun than the real game. There's a reason why some people consider Tetris the greatest game ever created.

Ivan
02-27-2005, 04:05 PM
Imfamous said:

Ivan said:

Either way, Starcraft was the better game



Starcraft should be like #2. I played it for more than 10 hours in 3 days and I still want more!!

Doom shouldn't be that high: it was good but, come on.



Have you played Doom 2? It's better than the original Doom in every way! Play it Ivan! http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif



I played Doom, I was unimpressed even if critics were good about it, never played the second, and I was close from winning the third one. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif

Being a big fan of Max Payne series, I am disapointed of his raking. Lots.

Cerberus_e
02-27-2005, 04:08 PM
Lengis said:

Cerberus_e said:

Lengis said:
CounterStrike (HalfLife didn't age well, but this did.)




counterstrike = Half-Life.
if a simple mod counts as a game... http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif




That simple mod was a hell of a lot more fun than the real game. There's a reason why some people consider Tetris the greatest game ever created.



(in your opinion) it's more fun, but that doesn't make it a game itself.
in my opnion HL is a lot better because it has singleplayer, multiplayer is so monotonous

Shaam
02-27-2005, 04:42 PM
What.

No Blood, Alien Vs Predator II, No One Lives Forever 1 or 2, Tron 2.0, Thief 1, Alice, Undying, Medal of Honor. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif

Half-Life at number 1 agreed. Half-Life 2 at number 4. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif It does not deserve to be in the top 100 games of all time (not because of steam).

http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Cerberus_e
02-27-2005, 05:06 PM
what!
no mention of lemmings???
you know where they can put their list http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Thriller
02-27-2005, 05:21 PM
Locnor said:Here is the FULL LIST:

1 - Half-Life (1998)
2 - Doom (1995)
3 - Civ 2
4 - Half-Life 2
5 - WarCraft 3 - Tides of Darkness


Next year, my bet is Half-life2 is maybe.. nr 10-15. If something amazing doesnt happen on the MOD-scene, that is.


But where is Little Big Adventures2? Why isnt Sam & Max top 20? Where is Day of the Tentacle? And Grim Fandango (it was nr1 in Swedish PCG http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif)? And this is probably the first list I´ve seen with Beavis and Butthead Virtual Stupidity in it.

Opus131
02-27-2005, 05:26 PM
0marTheZealot said:
The consensus among real players is that War3 is absolute crap compared to StarCraft.



The consesus among real players is that they liked Starcraft better, but that Warcraft3 it's such an improvement in so many aspects of it they can't go back playing the first.

Mountain Man
02-27-2005, 05:38 PM
Thriller said:
Next year, my bet is Half-life2 is maybe.. nr 10-15.


And I bet it'll scoot up a spot or two as its influence on the gaming industry becomes more apparent.

Thriller
02-27-2005, 05:49 PM
Mountain Man said:

Thriller said:
Next year, my bet is Half-life2 is maybe.. nr 10-15.


And I bet it'll scoot up a spot or two as its influence on the gaming industry becomes more apparent.

Then we definatly dissagree. I think it will be a "quake2" scenario, where it slowly fades away as it didnt really have a strong impact on the gamingworld. And after the hype has gone down, both the naysayers and the fanboys will start to forget it. And as with Quake2, magazines will just try to forget that they called it the best game ever. All it takes is one new strong FPS on the market.

If, of course, it doesnt get a new "counter-strike".

John
02-27-2005, 05:51 PM
Influence? As in what?

Physics, were there before hand. Graphics? Yeah it had good atmosphere, but so did Far Cry. Interactivity? DNF has been known to be the "insane interactive" game in the making. Gravity gun? A gimmick for the physics which was implented by Havok.

Zztx
02-27-2005, 07:41 PM
- Another Top-## list, another thread chock-full of opinion-bashing and general bantering. Whee!

- No Scorched Earth?! I'M MAD AS <font color="red">HELL!</font> http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tinyted.gif

- I think we all can agree that Beavis & Butthead: Virtual Stupidity has no place on that list. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

- Personally, I would've put DOOM II instead of DOOM on the list, myself. Granted, DOOM hauled ass, but I can't imagine deathmatching without the Super Shotgun. And the slew of new monsters was cool, too. Who DIDN'T hate the Arch-Vile?

- Total Annihilation. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif I'm not a big RTS enthusiast, but even I could tell that that game hauled serious ass. I http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/love.gif Big Bertha.

Mountain Man
02-27-2005, 07:55 PM
I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

Paroxysm
02-27-2005, 08:02 PM
Zztx said:
- I think we all can agree that Beavis & Butthead: Virtual Stupidity has no place on that list. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif




Actually it's an extremely good adventure game with it's only downfall being a few particulary obscure puzzles). I'd put others above it personally but when you're looking at top quality games it comes down to preference in the end. So in other words it has as much right as anything else to be there.

John
02-27-2005, 08:14 PM
eaningm-ay, heirt-ay piniono-ay uckss-ay.

Reaper
02-27-2005, 08:46 PM
John said:
Influence? As in what?

Physics, were there before hand. Graphics? Yeah it had good atmosphere, but so did Far Cry. Interactivity? DNF has been known to be the "insane interactive" game in the making. Gravity gun? A gimmick for the physics which was implented by Havok.


That gimmick happens to be in two different games already (Project Snowblind, and, while not quite in stone, the Doom 3 expansion), and I think it will be in a lot more to come.

NetNessie
02-27-2005, 09:11 PM
I dont care if its PC games, Super Mario Brothers 3 should have been on that list. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

John
02-27-2005, 09:12 PM
Reaper said:

John said:
Influence? As in what?

Physics, were there before hand. Graphics? Yeah it had good atmosphere, but so did Far Cry. Interactivity? DNF has been known to be the "insane interactive" game in the making. Gravity gun? A gimmick for the physics which was implented by Havok.


That gimmick happens to be in two different games already (Project Snowblind, and, while not quite in stone, the Doom 3 expansion), and I think it will be in a lot more to come.



immickg's-ay a-ay immickg-ay. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Imfamous
02-27-2005, 09:14 PM
What's with the pig latin, man?

Ivan
02-27-2005, 09:15 PM
Imfamous said:
What's with the pig latin, man?



A challenge..see the appropriated thread in the Fnord section. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

John
02-27-2005, 09:49 PM
Imfamous said:
What's with the pig latin, man?



eadr-ay ignatures-ay. ro-ay otog-ay nordf-ay oardb-ay.

Lengis
02-28-2005, 11:54 AM
Opus131 said:

0marTheZealot said:
The consensus among real players is that War3 is absolute crap compared to StarCraft.



The consesus among real players is that they liked Starcraft better, but that Warcraft3 it's such an improvement in so many aspects of it they can't go back playing the first.



I disagree. They were totally different from eachother, and good in their own right. But neither stole the spot light from the other, because their mechanics were different enough.

Kronx
02-28-2005, 02:03 PM
I think the Top 5 is a joke. It seems like they made the nice, safe choices. Both The Sims and Starcraft should be in the Top 5. The Sims was groundbreaking. Not only did it blow open a whole new gaming market, but it did it with a novel concept.

I haven't played Half-Life 2. But I don't think it's quite the "defining" FPS that Half-Life and Doom were. I heard lots of excellent reviews about it. Yet, now that some time has passed I don't see it mentioned like it should be to warrant inclusion in the Top 5. A Top 5 game must reverberate through culture, and Half-Life 2 has faded quite a bit interest-wise. My Top 10 would look like this.

1 - Half-Life
2 - Doom
3 - Starcraft
4 - The Sims
5 - Everquest
6 - GTA 3
7 - Diablo 2
8 - Battlefield 1942
9 - Baldur's Gate
10 - Half-Life 2

The rest of the list isn't really important. Obviously my list would continue to differ. I would include things like Might and Magic 6, Planescape: Torment, Carmageddon, AD&D Pool of Radiance etc.

I think if you could look at each game with zero bias, no emphasis on graphics (or at least adjusting for graphic quality based on tech available) you would have a very different Top 10.

Cerberus_e
02-28-2005, 03:15 PM
you haven't played HL2 and it's in your top 10?
brilliant http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

John
02-28-2005, 05:42 PM
1. Doom 2
2. Duke Nukem 3d
3. Grim Fandango
4. Fallout 2
5. Half Life
6. Wolfenstein 3d
7. Unreal
8. The Sims
9. Elders Scrolls: Morrowind
10. Deus Ex

hatt-ay si-ay ym-ay istl-ay. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

('mI-ay ostlym-ay a-ay PSF-ay nda-ay PGR-ay anf-ay, sa-ay ouy-ay anc-ay ees-ay.)

<font color="gray">(That is my list. I'm mostly a FPS and RPG fan, as you can see.)</font>

Kronx
02-28-2005, 09:07 PM
The reasoning is complex. It involves some advanced multi-variable calculus and three pounds of fried shrimp.

Opus131
02-28-2005, 09:16 PM
John said:
Influence? As in what?




Quality, scope and application.

Ho noes, it isn't about some meangless buzz sounding 'revolutionary innovation', the end is nigh !!!

IwantMORE
02-28-2005, 10:09 PM
For what it's worth.

1) Sims
2) Half Life
3) Civilsation 2
4) Duke Nukem 3D
5) Diablo
6) Warcraft 3
7) Command & Conquer
8) Doom 2
9) Myst
10) Lemmings

And that's my list of games based of game design, popularity - especially the length of time they were popular for. Impact on gaming and how enjoyable they still are.

But then again that's only my opinion and it was hard to choose those games and order.

Scorched Earth would definately be in the top 20 somewhere along with HL2 but that's about all I would like to comit to...

Drizzle
02-28-2005, 10:23 PM
Perhaps... its really a list of which companies paid them the most in advertising...

Honestly wouldnt surprise me.

IwantMORE
02-28-2005, 10:28 PM
Had crossed my mind, it does kind if add up to..

mysteryperfecta
03-01-2005, 01:28 PM
If I remember correctly, Warcraft 2 was #5, not Warcraft 3. I don't have the mag in front of me. Can anyone confirm this?

I have the PC Gamer that contained their Top 50 list that came out a few years ago. A lot of good games got bumped off the list this time. I wouldn't have bumped Deus Ex so far down from it's last ranking, but it's a daunting task to make a list such as this, so I'm sure they did their best.

Their list definately has more credibility than many of our lists, considering many of us haven't played half of the games listed.

Locnor
03-01-2005, 03:49 PM
In the current issue they also show the previous ranking from when they last did this in 2001.

They give rather lengthy explanations for the top 10 as to why they "deserve" to be there.

Cerberus_e
03-01-2005, 04:11 PM
anyone wants to post those reasons why the games are in their top 10? http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Mad_Max
03-07-2005, 11:50 AM
There are some good game picks in that list, but the order these games are being listed is so wretched. What's with Tomb Raider being a better game than System Shock 2? I never really thought that Tomb Raider was much of a cool game, it had a rather wretched engine, clumsy combats and frustrating levels. Oh, and System Shock 2 deserved a way higher rank.

Worms Armageddon would have been rated way higher if I were the one who made that list. It's undoubtly the best game ever made in my books. I've gotten this game back when it's been released in 1999 and I still play it regulary.

As for Half-Life being the best game ever... that's a crock of shit. This is undoubtly the most overrated game that has been ever made. It's hardly beyond the game play that appeared in Doom, the atmosphere and enemies were boring and it was chalked with nice little glitches there and then to make the game even more annoying than it is. Yeah, like if killing crabs were fun. Unreal would have already been more suitable for this list than HL since it was playable (yet boring) and since the soundtrack kicked ass.

I think my Top #10 list on the PC platform would go as follow:

#1: Worms Armageddon
#2: Civilization II
#3: System Shock 2
#4: The Incredible Machine
#5: Sam and Max Hit The Road
#6: Blood
#7: Duke Nukem 3D
#8: Lemmings
#9: Star Wars - Tie Fighter
#10: Deus Ex

Cerberus_e
03-07-2005, 01:13 PM
Mad_Max said:

#8: Lemmings




finally someone thinks of this game

Destroyer
03-09-2005, 12:04 AM
1. Red Alert
2. C&C
3. MP 2
4. MOHAA
5. Rainbow Six Rogue Spear
6. WarCraft 3 Frozen throne
7. Quake 2
9. Half Life
10. Red Faction

most of you wont agree with my list. but hey this is just my opinion

IwantMORE
03-09-2005, 04:42 AM
Cerberus_e said:

Mad_Max said:

#8: Lemmings




finally someone thinks of this game



I had it on my list too. it almost did not make it though because I don't think it has stood the test of time so well.

melt_core
05-02-2005, 02:04 PM
I wouldn't have made Half-Life first position. And I think 15th for Duke is pretty low..

Also, I would have put starcraft much higher then Warcraft 2..

There are a lot of other inconsistencies, but these are the one that shocked me the most.

avatar_58
05-02-2005, 02:07 PM
Let me fix the title for you:

"PC gamer - Best Games of All Time In their opinion" http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Thats all it will ever be. It seems they just grab the newest and hottest games and stick them on top. Pfft...

DudeMiester
05-02-2005, 03:49 PM
One question, how long does it take to make a necro? Cause this one has been about one month.

Simon Charles
05-02-2005, 07:07 PM
Glad to see X-Com made the list.

Airtraffic
05-02-2005, 11:46 PM
Amazing,122 repleys and Drazula hasn't come stomping threw this thread screaming "wheres Doom3" http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Seriously though,i would have thought Doom3 would have done better than Panzer General , Secret of Monkey Island or Sam and Max hit the road none of which i even heard of!

I'm not surprized at HL's ranking but where the fack is RTCW?

DudeMiester
05-02-2005, 11:53 PM
Amazing,122 repleys and Drazula hasn't come stomping threw this thread screaming "wheres Doom3"

Seriously though,i would have thought Doom3 would have done better than Panzer General , Secret of Monkey Island or Sam and Max hit the road none of which i even heard of!

I'm not surprized at HL's ranking but where the fack is RTCW?



fyi, you are making Drazula look very very good by posting this. The fact you don't know what Monkey Island is, and futhermore would call it crap only because you never heard of it speaks for itself. How ironic, by trying to be a flaming bastard you show the world how ignorent you really are. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif har har har! You deserve everything you get, and perhaps you should start listening to Draz more closely.

Airtraffic
05-03-2005, 12:06 AM
DudeMiester said:

Amazing,122 repleys and Drazula hasn't come stomping threw this thread screaming "wheres Doom3"

Seriously though,i would have thought Doom3 would have done better than Panzer General , Secret of Monkey Island or Sam and Max hit the road none of which i even heard of!

I'm not surprized at HL's ranking but where the fack is RTCW?



fyi, you are making Drazula look very very good by posting this. The fact you don't know what Monkey Island is, and futhermore would call it crap only because you never heard of it speaks for itself. How ironic, by trying to be a flaming bastard you show the world how ignorent you really are. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif har har har! You deserve everything you get, and perhaps you should start listening to Draz more closely.


Where did i call any of them crap? i just said i would have thought Doom3 would have beat those titles and my reasoning is simple,Doom3 more then likely is/was much more popular.

Next time you want to so quickly respond to my posts with rubbish try this:

READ,TRY AND UNDERSTAND,THEN POST...in that order please!

har har har!

DudeMiester
05-03-2005, 12:45 AM
I suppose I should be more clear. I'm claiming that you are a pop culture gamer (you do say that games have to be good if they're popular, which strangly overlooks the manufactured popularity that is overwhelmingly present in Western society), where Draz is more of a conisseur of the art (although I would also say he's hardly an expert, or rational all the time). You see an expert can judge because they have experianced and studied the things that they judge. More generally, an intelligent person knows what they do and do not know, and thus doesn't accuse blindly. What you say about those games is equilavent to me calling you ugly because I have never seen you modelling in a magazine. Surely, you can see how ridiculous such a thing is? Hence, my har har har, and the irony of it all.

As for understanding, I think it's you, not I, that needs to do some personal understanding and reflection. I truely hope that your pride, ego, ePenis, etc... doesn't prevent you from being able to accomplish such a simple and basic behaviour. However, if you feel you must continue to become emotionally riled up and terribly offended, please continue. It makes me look better.

Airtraffic
05-03-2005, 04:46 AM
DudeMiester said:
I suppose I should be more clear. I'm claiming that you are a pop culture gamer (you do say that games have to be good if they're popular, which strangly overlooks the manufactured popularity that is overwhelmingly present in Western society),


Yes,generally if it's popular it's a good game (even in the west son) if you want to go threw life fighting majoritys fill your boots!

As for the rest of the crap you posted:

http://www.webdelsol.com/The_Potomac/issue2/crybaby.jpg

In other words..grow up

December Man
05-03-2005, 05:57 AM
So you just mean 'popular is good' Airtraffic? Who needs to grow up, dude? To tell ya the truth, Doom 3 isn't THAT popular. Believe me, I've seen more popular games. The Sims for example. A childish, boring, monotonous, boring, repetitive game(did I say boring and monotonous?). And it's more popular than any other game!

Logic Bomb
05-03-2005, 08:00 AM
Diablo2 was far better than diablo1, dunno why diablo1 got such a high review. Better games are better games, screw the nostalgia attached to them. Unless this list was designed around barrier-breaking milestone games then those 2 games should be switched.

- LB

Airtraffic
05-03-2005, 10:50 AM
December Man said:
So you just mean 'popular is good' Airtraffic? Who needs to grow up, dude? To tell ya the truth, Doom 3 isn't THAT popular.


Geez,another dimwit who can't read! what part of "generally" can't you understand? http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif

As for Doom3 not being popular,i call bullshit,NPC numbers suggest different.

fyi,i don't even like Doom3 but i beleive it should above some of those others on that list...get it? http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/doh.gif

melt_core
05-03-2005, 10:57 AM
Logic Bomb said:
Diablo2 was far better than diablo1, dunno why diablo1 got such a high review. Better games are better games, screw the nostalgia attached to them. Unless this list was designed around barrier-breaking milestone games then those 2 games should be switched.

- LB



I consider Diablo 1 an all around better game. It was more simple fun, more straightforward.

December Man
05-03-2005, 11:40 AM
Airtraffic said:

December Man said:
So you just mean 'popular is good' Airtraffic? Who needs to grow up, dude? To tell ya the truth, Doom 3 isn't THAT popular.


Geez,another dimwit who can't read! what part of "generally" can't you understand? http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif

As for Doom3 not being popular,i call bullshit,NPC numbers suggest different.

fyi,i don't even like Doom3 but i beleive it should above some of those others on that list...get it? http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/doh.gif



Why didn't you say so in the first place? And stop calling me a dimwit, dimwit! http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Drazula
05-03-2005, 04:30 PM
Geez, I didn't even post in this topic and I'm causing trouble. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

MentalSentinel
05-03-2005, 04:44 PM
41 - Max Payne



SACRILEGE! http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Airtraffic
05-04-2005, 10:47 AM
December Man said:


Why didn't you say so in the first place? And stop calling me a dimwit, dimwit! http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif


I thought everyone knew how i felt about Doom3 http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif


Drazula said:
Geez, I didn't even post in this topic and I'm causing trouble. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif



nah! but i was amazed you hadn't repleyed to this thread,are you amazed i defended your precious Doom3? http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Stormbringer
05-11-2005, 08:02 PM
Where's Tetris on that list?

K T Ong
05-11-2005, 09:22 PM
Where are Heretic and Hexen?

Where's Unreal? And Unreal Tournament (not 2k3/2k4)?

Where's Shadow Warrior?

And where are the Ultima <font color="red">Underworld</font> games? I would consider them to be way above any other Ultima games.

And sorry, I honestly get a bit sick of how everyone considers Half-Life number 1, because I just don't agree. It's just a System Shock II wannabe. System Shock II should be ranked above Half-Life.

In the final analysis, I don't give a hoot what reviewers like PC Gamer say nowadays. <font color="red">Oneself</font> should be the final arbiter of what games count as great games. And for <font color="red">me</font>, Unreal is the king of the hill.

Take it or leave it.