S.T.A.L.K.E.R. question.

[Cerberus_e]

I'll quote some things the developpers say:

"S.T.A.L.K.E.R. offers a nonlinear storyline. There is an ultimate goal, but you choose the path yourself. Additionally, the events in the Zone happen irrespective of your participation in them--aside from very mission-specific events, nothing is ever triggered purely because of one of your actions--and all characters in S.T.A.L.K.E.R. have their own artificial intelligence routines and their own differing motivations and tasks."

"The game will feature a dynamic world that's never the same twice--so you may encounter this happy fellow on your travels, or he may be eliminated by a rival stalker before you even reach him."

"Computer-controlled, non-player character stalkers will traverse the area, encounter anomalies, and seek artifacts. All of this can happen when the player isn't there at the moment, in different areas of the zone, which is 30 square kilometres"

now I have one big question: if every enemy does things (fighting each other for example) before the player even is in that area, then the whole game needs to be loaded at once ==> how can that fit into the memory?

if a lot of battles go on where the player is not present (for example an other stalker that is fighting with mutants)==> how can your CPU handle this?

this would be possible if they used Doom 1 graphics and geometry. but they are going for next-gen http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif

what will the system requirements be? 3.4 ghz, 2 gb ram, Geforce 6800 GT at minimum? http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

so what's the explanation?

[Mountain Man]

Needless to say, there's a reason why S.T.A.L.K.E.R. has suffered through numerous delays and even now has an unspecified release date. If it comes any where close to matching the developer's ambitions, it could be one of the best games ever made, but it could just as easily flop.

[Warmaster129]

There's also a reason they're releasing it 64-bit. You can not skimp on the CPU with this game.

[Cerberus_e]

Warmaster129 said:
There's also a reason they're releasing it 64-bit. You can not skimp on the CPU with this game.



64 bit? so I can't run it anymore with my intel 2.6 ghz processor?

[Cerberus_e]

Mountain Man said:
Needless to say, there's a reason why S.T.A.L.K.E.R. has suffered through numerous delays and even now has an unspecified release date. If it comes any where close to matching the developer's ambitions, it could be one of the best games ever made, but it could just as easily flop.



it looks a bit TOO open to me, that it is too difficult to make a good balanced game out of it.
I'm hoping my guess (= flop) is wrong!

but that still doesn't answer my question http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Gryph]

Cerberus_e said:

Warmaster129 said:
There's also a reason they're releasing it 64-bit. You can not skimp on the CPU with this game.



64 bit? so I can't run it anymore with my intel 2.6 ghz processor?


You'll be able to run it on 32 bit. No developer would be stupid to dump 32 bit support yet.

[John]

I-ay opeh-ay het-ay orldw-ay isnt-ay ifelessl-ay and-ay landb-ay""

<table><tr><th><font size="-1">Spoiler below:</font></th></tr><tr><td class="spoiler"> I hope the world isnt lifeless and bland. </td></tr></table>

[Vexed]

==> how can that fit into the memory?

if a lot of battles go on where the player is not present (for example an other stalker that is fighting with mutants)==> how can your CPU handle this?


My best guess would be that, things that happend out of a certain range can be simplified a whole lot.

I don't think there are actual "battles", just the game going like: "well these two are close together, this one has that weapon the other one has this amount of health.. i'm just gonna go a head and make the other guy die" Or something like that? Terrain and cover might not even come into play when the player isn't around.
I surely can imagine battles won't play out with all the bells and whistles like collision detection for bullets and whatnot...

And remember stuff that happens outside of the player's view doesn't need textures or anything. So that saves a lot of memory.

This is just my guess work tho. I'm sure someone with a better understanding will come around eventually http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Duoae]

I agree with Vexed. Pretty much all long-range games (such as freelancer, X2 etc) have a "stats and table" kind of system. Where each object (or NPC) is tabulated, tracked and encounters resolved on pure numbers. PC's do this very well. It's only graphical interfaces and AI routines that slow things down.

[Damien_Azreal]

I'm not that interested in Stalker, but maybe it'll turn out better than it sounds.

[Claws]

To answer your question. The AI has two modes: One called online mode, where the environment, characters, monsters, anomalies, artifacts, etc are actually represented graphically, animated and seen by the player. This mode is active around a certain adjustable radius around the player. The other mode, called offline, is simply a huge set of mathematical equations and statistics. This mode is active everywhere else in the world outside that specific radius.

Other companies have just started looking into this revolutionary (imo) AI system for their next generation games; Bethesda for Oblivion and Irrational for BioShock. Stalker is quite ahead of the competition here.

You can read more interesting details about the life simulation system here:

http://stalker.myexp.de/en/index.php?site=lss.php

[Duoae]

Claws said:
Other companies have just started looking into this revolutionary (imo) AI system for their next generation games; Bethesda for Oblivion and Irrational for BioShock. Stalker is quite ahead of the competition here.




But this kind of system was present in freelancer and X2. So it's been around for a while.

[IgWannA]

it runs smooth on pretty much any decent system. i had the alpha build running at around 30-40 fps on my athlon 2000, geforce3 ti500, 512mb. to get all the fancy DX9 effects you'll need a DX9 graphics card obviously, and i'm sure it'll run silky smooth on those cards because the engine is very optimized.

[Vexed]

Claws said:
You can read more interesting details about the life simulation system here:

http://stalker.myexp.de/en/index.php?site=lss.php


Awesome read! Thanks for posting that link.
I laughed out loud when I read about that enemy who considered himself an enemy and eventually managed to kill himself.

[Simon Charles]

The more we know about this game, the more it feels as though it will become a spectacular game, or a total bust.

This game promises a whole freggin lot but has yet to deliver, and has been delayed numerous times. Doesn't sound good.

[Cerberus_e]

Simon Charles said:
and has been delayed numerous times. Doesn't sound good.



so was HL, HL2 ánd DNF

[Orochi Avlis]

Warmaster129 said:
There's also a reason they're releasing it 64-bit. You can not skimp on the CPU with this game.


/me kisses AMD 64 3000+ chip. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/love.gif

[Simon Charles]

Cerberus_e said:

Simon Charles said:
and has been delayed numerous times. Doesn't sound good.



so was HL, HL2 ánd DNF



Half-Life was restarted from scratch, Half-Life 2 was stolen, and DNF is god knows where. Not exactly the same.

[Vexed]

Now I'm wondering how many entities are present in the game world. Even if the fighting and what not is simplified outside of a certain range, it still sounds like a lot is going on. There's gotta be tons of entities if they want to populate that huge world.

I'm also wondering if the monsters respawn some how. Because if there are fights when the player isn't near, a situation could arise where large parts of the game world are devoid of entities, since they would all have been eradicated by somethingorother long ago.

[Warmaster129]

Orochi Avlis said:

Warmaster129 said:
There's also a reason they're releasing it 64-bit. You can not skimp on the CPU with this game.


/me kisses AMD 64 3000+ chip. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/love.gif


But is it the 90nm version which can be overclocked 30% with default cooling? You know, the version that I have?
http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hhg.gif

[Claws]

Vexed said:
Now I'm wondering how many entities are present in the game world. Even if the fighting and what not is simplified outside of a certain range, it still sounds like a lot is going on. There's gotta be tons of entities if they want to populate that huge world.

I'm also wondering if the monsters respawn some how. Because if there are fights when the player isn't near, a situation could arise where large parts of the game world are devoid of entities, since they would all have been eradicated by somethingorother long ago.



At any point there are between 70 - 120 stalkers. New stalkers come into the zone every now and then.

Monsters migrate from over populated areas to under populated areas.

By the way, 30 km^2 isn't that huge. Not to be confused with 30km x 30km. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Gryph]

IgWannA said:
it runs smooth on pretty much any decent system. i had the alpha build running at around 30-40 fps on my athlon 2000, geforce3 ti500, 512mb. to get all the fancy DX9 effects you'll need a DX9 graphics card obviously, and i'm sure it'll run silky smooth on those cards because the engine is very optimized.


That alpha build is so old, it's definitely not a representation of the game now.

[Warmaster129]

Did they even have the entire life simulation thing implemented in the alpha?

[Claws]

No. The alpha contained one or two maps with no AI, no physics and no dynamic lighting system.

[Mountain Man]

Claws said:
By the way, 30 km^2 isn't that huge.


As I understand it, the island of Vvardenfell in Morrowind covers something like 8 square kilometers and takes about 20 minutes real-time to walk from one end to the other, so 30 km^2 is freakin' huge!

[John]

It took you 20 minutes?

It takes me forever. Walking through all the towns and villages and stuff, and open fields.

[Mountain Man]

If you walk straight through without stopping it takes about 20 minutes. Of course, it's very easy to get distracted along the way. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Duoae]

Mountain Man said:
If you walk straight through without stopping it takes about 20 minutes. Of course, it's very easy to get distracted along the way. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif



Of course, that depends on your speed stats. Are you using levitation to walk across without being stopped by mountains?

[Mountain Man]

20 minutes was a just a rough estimate. If you could walk unhindered by adversaries or terrain, you could traverse the island in about 20 minutes. That's all I was saying. It was just to give people an idea of how big of a game world we're talking about.

[Cerberus_e]

Vexed said:
Now I'm wondering how many entities are present in the game world. Even if the fighting and what not is simplified outside of a certain range, it still sounds like a lot is going on. There's gotta be tons of entities if they want to populate that huge world.

I'm also wondering if the monsters respawn some how. Because if there are fights when the player isn't near, a situation could arise where large parts of the game world are devoid of entities, since they would all have been eradicated by somethingorother long ago.



yes, I'm wondering that too.
monster migrate from full parts to void parts (where everyone is killed)?
result: less monsters in the part where the monsters emigrated.
so after every part of the zone where everyone is killed, the enemies spread.
that way the concentration of enemies becomes smaller.
I'm wondering what will happen if the concentration becomes TOO small, so you hardly ever encounter an enemy.
do monsters multiply themselves or something? if so, will you see birth? http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Duoae]

I don't know about monsters. I would presume that there would be monster spawns to reduce the chance of every monster being dead.

The thing i want to see most in this game are the "hotspots". The idea and actual look, feel and presentation of them is brilliant.

[John]

I just hope this thing gets finished.

I like the idea of walking around and meeting people, etc. And killing them if you wish. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Airtraffic]

Cerberus_e said:

Simon Charles said:
and has been delayed numerous times. Doesn't sound good.



so was HL, HL2 ánd DNF


HL..delayed 17 months
HL2..delayed 14 months
DNF..i'll say 36 months and counting (thats being nice)
STALKER..22 months and counting

The last two aren't delays...their disasters http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hhg.gif

[IgWannA]

DNF..i'll say 36 months and counting (thats being nice)



lol, more like over 5 years http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hhg.gif

[Cerberus_e]

S.T.A.L.K.E.R. today: community interview - 23/09/2005

I thought some of you would find this interesting



"What's happening to S.T.A.L.K.E.R.?", "what's the development stage at the moment?", "when's the release?" are just part of the questions the community have been raising lately. Andrew Prokhorov, Project Lead/Lead Designer, kindly agreed to give a quick interview to www.oblivion-lost.com (http://www.oblivion-lost.com) regarding those critical questions. Read on.

Where do we stand?

As of today we are working on the game's storyline. After conclusively play-testing the first version, we came to the conclusion that the result was below-par and didn't live up to our own expectations and high standards. As a result we undertook a broad review of the story and key design areas of the game, looking particularly at the interaction of the plot with the life simulation.

Once key areas were identified we were able to work on filling out the content of the game world and being the process of polishing and balancing. At the same time, we are working hard to refine the AI, life simulation, the PDA interactivity, bug fixing and optimising the game to run on lower-spec machines. The 'eye candy' is also getting a major overhaul…

What has been achieved to-date?

Now that the game components have been put together we are pleased to be able to say that we have some thrilling gameplay - the key thing! Once we acknowledged that the project was going to deliver a first person title quite unlike any other, we were able to look towards refining and balancing the gameplay. On top of that we are continuing to receive great support and feedback from our Publisher, and we've been able to use their extensive knowledge and familiarity with the market to ensure that we have a truly unique and compelling gameplay experience.

The game itself is different from anything else out there, in particularly the life simulation and open-world gameplay mechanics. This has proven to be very time-consuming to polish and debug - a major headache for us! We especially wanted newbies to be able to pick up and play the game, meaning that accessibility became paramount in the design. While we have been able to retain the depth and feel of the game, we feel that by making maximum use of the in-game PDA, we will be able to ensure that at no point do people feel that they are lost or directionless.

We have also continued to work on the AI in the game and we're particularly happy with the way our stalkers react to one another and to other stalkers; while they're certainly challenging to attack, they don't actually 'cheat', but react according to their situation and make decisions depending on the player's actions. Once you understand that the underlying AI reflects true-life situations then the combat becomes all the more engaging, realising that a simple mistake could be the end of you brings a real intensity to the action! We have also been working hard to make sure that the life of the other AI stalkers in the game is just as engaging as your own; they talk, tell jokes, drink, sleep, etc. The community has been particularly useful in this context; they have supplied all the jokes and stories that the stalkers tell while relaxing around a campfire.




http://www.stalker-game.com/index.php?t=news&id=178&s=news&page=0

[dark_angel]

After conclusively play-testing the first version, we came to the conclusion that the result was below-par and didn't live up to our own expectations and high standards.



Stalker seems to me a too ambitious project, they can't even reach their standards and expectations, that if its on par with today's AAA titles!

[avatar_58]

dark_angel said:
Stalker seems to me a too ambitious project, they can't even reach their standards and expectations, that if its on par with today's AAA titles!



So what, DNF said the same thing when they scrapped it and used a new engine. If a game isn't as good as it was billed, then I think its okay for them to go back to the drawing board. I would rather play a classic than a second rate game.

[Cerberus_e]

I'm surprised to hear the publisher supports them, and helps with gameplay http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
another weird thing: the community provided all conversations and jokes http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif
I'd like it better if the other stalkers told their stories that happened FOR REAL in the game http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif (conversation AI http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif)
like: "man, today I met a STALKER from our concurrent clan, he nearly got me! luckily I was able to hide in the long grass, too bad such mutated dog came all of a sudden".
or even cooler would be if you were fighting along with a friendly STALKER, and a bloodsucker came, but you shot him with your assault rifle. another bloodsucker flanked you and the friendly STALKER, and the friendly STALKER killed him.
then a bit later at the campfire with other STALKERS the friendly stalker that fought along with you started telling: "you should hear what happened to us two last night! he shot a bloodsucker, and another one was flanking us! luckily I was able to dispatch him quickly enough!"

http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[avatar_58]

Cerberus_e said:
I'm surprised to hear the publisher supports them, and helps with gameplay http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
another weird thing: the community provided all conversations and jokes http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif
I'd like it better if the other stalkers told their stories that happened FOR REAL in the game http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif (conversation AI http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif)
like: "man, today I met a STALKER from our concurrent clan, he nearly got me! luckily I was able to hide in the long grass, too bad such mutated dog came all of a sudden".
or even cooler would be if you were fighting along with a friendly STALKER, and a bloodsucker came, but you shot him with your assault rifle. another bloodsucker flanked you and the friendly STALKER, and the friendly STALKER killed him.
then a bit later at the campfire with other STALKERS the friendly stalker that fought along with you started telling: "you should hear what happened to us two last night! he shot a bloodsucker, and another one was flanking us! luckily I was able to dispatch him quickly enough!"

http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif



That would require heavy scripting or text convos rather than speech. Unless of course you want text-to-speech conversions.

*shudder* http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[dark_angel]

3DREALMS suffered from not having a good engine that can offer them the possibility to incorporate their gameplay ideas/elements.

The STALKER team already has a next-gen engine but for some reasons they couldn't be able to implement their gameplay ideas or make them work the way they want!

Gameplay is king!

[Cerberus_e]

dark_angel said:
3DREALMS suffered from not having a good engine that can offer them the possibility to incorporate their gameplay ideas/elements.

The STALKER team already has a next-gen engine but for some reasons they couldn't be able to implement their gameplay ideas or make them work the way they want!

Gameplay is king!



from what I've read in the community interview, the gameplay already works.
the problem is integraating the story, because the story goes on regardless of where the player is and what he's doing.

[SyntaxN]

dark_angel said:
3DREALMS suffered from not having a good engine that can offer them the possibility to incorporate their gameplay ideas/elements.

The STALKER team already has a next-gen engine but for some reasons they couldn't be able to implement their gameplay ideas or make them work the way they want!

Gameplay is king!


They did some, uhm pretty big mistakes in the beginning http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif
Graphics and tech were their main focus back then, the gameplay existed in their minds and sounded great, the problem is now to make this amazing sounding stuff working the right way http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Mountain Man]

Well, it's nice to hear something at least. I had assumed this project was dead.

[avatar_58]

Mountain Man said:
Well, it's nice to hear something at least. I had assumed this project was dead.



Why?

[Mountain Man]

Um, because we haven't heard anything about it for months and the official site appears virtually abandoned (no news updates, broken message boards).

[Simon Charles]

Poor Stalker. I had high hopes for this game. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

[Duke Rocks]

Hey guys, where can I find the STALKER alpha?

I'd love to play it!

[avatar_58]

Duke Rocks said:
Hey guys, where can I find the STALKER alpha?

I'd love to play it!



On the developer's harddrives?

[Gryph]

Duke Rocks said:
Hey guys, where can I find the STALKER alpha?

I'd love to play it!


You should not ask such things here.

[Cerberus_e]

Simon Charles said:
Poor Stalker. I had high hopes for this game. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif



http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif
the game is still in development, not abandoned.
and there is an alpha leaked or what? http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[SyntaxN]

Cerberus_e said:

Simon Charles said:
Poor Stalker. I had high hopes for this game. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif



http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif
the game is still in development, not abandoned.
and there is an alpha leaked or what? http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif


I thought everyone saw that on the news site... http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
There were 3 at all (when I remember right), but old versions and that´s a long time ago http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Mountain Man]

From what I understand, an alpha build of STALKER was stolen something like 2 years ago, which is where most of the early reports of poor gameplay came from.

[Simon Charles]

Cerberus_e said:

Simon Charles said:
Poor Stalker. I had high hopes for this game. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif



http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif
the game is still in development, not abandoned.



It looks all but dead. So much change, so many delays... that's never good news in game developement. Too much ambition, and now they're trying to catch up with themselves. It'll take a miracle to make this game good.

[Cerberus_e]

yes, but imagine them actually succeeding http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/love.gif