Need another stick of ram for my mobo...

[Simon Charles]

I've got 512 mb of ram on my mobo and I want another one to bring it up to one gig. However, I don't know what kind. I don't know what 'ddr' means, or all that stuff like 333 or 400. I don't even know what kind I have in my computer right now. There's no brand written on it, or any other info whatsoever. And my documentation doesn't help, nor the Asus website.

I have an Asus A7V8X (Via KT400 chipset) motherboard. I work so I have a little money, and I can spend around 100-150$. What kind / speed / brand should I get?

[JimboC]

According to this link (http://usa.asus.com/prog/spec.asp?m=A7V8X&langs=09), your motherboard takes PC1600, PC2100, PC2700 or PC3200 DIMMs. Do you still have the invoice for the memory you bought? That way you could get the same type.

If not, you could get a matched set of PC3200 512MB DIMMs for about $110 at NewEgg (http://www.newegg.com/app/Viewproduct.asp?submit=property&catalog=147&propertycodevalue=0,%200,%200,%200,%200&minprice=&maxprice=&mfrcode=0&DEPA=1&description=PC3200&srchFor=1GB). I'd recommend going with a name brand as they're generally tested better and will provide fewer headaches overall.

If you want to call Asus support, try 510-608-4555 (US) or +49-2102-9599-0 (Europe). I called them earlier this week. Had me on hold for about 10 minutes and then spent 45 minutes on the phone with me trying to find some information about some mutant CPU I bought. The guy was pretty good and really tried everything to help me out, though in the end it turned out to be fruitless.

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

Download cpu-z, it will tell you how fast/what kind your memory is..

[Wamplet]

I would turn off your computer and take out your current memory and see what the stickers or model numbers say to be sure.

EDIT:

I see JimboC posted a link to the board. the cool thinkg about the Asus board as well as a few of the other major board sites is that they list compatible memory models at teh very bottom of the page.

If you went to new egg, you can look up the models and see what they have in conjunction with that list. Not a whole lot is listed there, but it's still something worth checking.

[NutWrench]

Aida32 will also tell you how fast your current ram is.

You want to get another stick that runs at the same speed. (preferably by the same manufacturer, allthough that's not always possible)

[Simon Charles]

Thanks guys. Cpu-z is a nice little utility. Here's what it says:

Memory SPD
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DIMM #1

General
Memory type DDR-SDRAM
Manufacturer (ID) (FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF)
Size 512 MBytes
Max bandwidth PC2700 (166 MHz)
Part number
Serial number FFFFFFFF
Manufacturing date Week 255/Year 255

Attributes
Number of banks 2
Data width 64 bits
Correction None
Registered no
Buffered no

Timings table
Frequency (MHz) 166
CAS# 2.5
RAS# to CAS# delay 3
RAS# Precharge 3
TRAS# 7

------------------------------------------------------------------------------




Upon closer inspection, there was indeed a sticker on my ram, but it was so dirty I missed it. I took it out and it says it's indeed a 333 "no-ecc". What I assume is the brand logo is a big "LD". And the serial number also starts with "LD". Internet searches for those serial numbers haven't turned up anything. Seems like my ram is a generic, no name brand. Doesn't help me knowing what to buy.

[NutWrench]

You want one 512 meg stick of PC2700 ram.

Here's a bunch of sticks in that category. (http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/Category/category_slc.asp?CatId=843)

[DudeMiester]

Alternatively you could just buy a single 1GB stick of DDR400, which runs at a higher clockspeed then your current RAM, thus you will get somewhat better performance. Although it's likely only on the order of 5% or so.

[Simon Charles]

Ah, thanks guys. My cousin's on his way here. He said he'd buy me a stick from a store downtown and bring it here tonight. I'll see how it goes.

[NutWrench]

Well? http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Simon Charles]

Well the second stick of ram works perfectly, I now have a gig. However, it runs much slower than expected. Asus says the board supports 400, but it only runs at 166. Changes in the bios do nothing.

[Sephiroth]

thats 400 means DDR400 if the other DIMM is slower then the current one you have then the motherbord will pick the slowest speed out of the two DIMMS for stablity reasons.

So if you bought a DIMM that is DDR400 pc3500 and you had a DIMM of DDR166 pc3200 then the motherbaord will accept both of them but will only operate both DIMMS at 166MHz due to the fact that it's the slowest.

[NutWrench]

What Sephiroth said. If it's dual-channel, dual-data rate RAM, then it's effectively running at 166x2 or 333Mhz.

I have two sticks of PC3200 ram which has an effective rate of 400Mhz, but the BIOS reports it as running at 200Mhz.

You should actually be seeing much faster performance if you have the sticks installed in the correct slots. Dual channel motherboards have color-coded ram slots, for example blue-black-blue-black. If you want to get the best performance, put the ram sticks in matching color slots.

[Jeff]

Are you saying that my Kingston Value RAM @ CAS 3 only runs at 200 MHz? My motherboard (ASUS K8V SE Deluxe) supports single channel memory. My RAM is exactly the same (2x512 MB Kingston Value RAM), so theoretically, when I decide to do a big upgrade to dual core, or even quad core CPUs, these memory sticks will run in dual channel mode. I always thought that if you bought 2 identical memory chips and put them in that it would be dual channel. Or do you have to buy a dual channel "kit" which costs $400 Canadian, where not just the RAM types, sizes, and speeds are the same, but the timings too?

[Bludd]

Just for the record:
PC2100 = 133 MHz = DDR266
PC2700 = 166 MHz = DDR333
PC3200 = 200 MHz = DDR400
PC3500 = 216 MHz = DDR433
PC3700 = 233 MHz = DDR466
PC4000 = 250 MHz = DDR500
PC4200 = 266 MHz = DDR533

and so on and so forth.

[Bludd]

jeffbthomson said:
Are you saying that my Kingston Value RAM @ CAS 3 only runs at 200 MHz? My motherboard (ASUS K8V SE Deluxe) supports single channel memory. My RAM is exactly the same (2x512 MB Kingston Value RAM), so theoretically, when I decide to do a big upgrade to dual core, or even quad core CPUs, these memory sticks will run in dual channel mode. I always thought that if you bought 2 identical memory chips and put them in that it would be dual channel. Or do you have to buy a dual channel "kit" which costs $400 Canadian, where not just the RAM types, sizes, and speeds are the same, but the timings too?



Any 2 sticks of ram can potentially work in dual channel mode with potentially loads of hassle, headache and work. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Dual channel mode means that you have two memory controllers instead of just one with single channel mode and that theoretically doubles your bandwith. The reason these socalled matched kits are sold is that the manufacturers test these kits in dual channel setups and because of this and the fact that the sticks are (nearly) identical will reduce the risk of dual channel not working.

One should always check what RAM and in what configurations a motherboard supports before bying though, just to be sure that the RAM you have will work.

[Simon Charles]

NutWrench said:
What Sephiroth said. If it's dual-channel, dual-data rate RAM, then it's effectively running at 166x2 or 333Mhz.

I have two sticks of PC3200 ram which has an effective rate of 400Mhz, but the BIOS reports it as running at 200Mhz.



Okay. What I have now is my old stick (PC2700) and the new one (PC3200). Even when alone, the new one was never shown as '400'. It was either 200, or some gibberish like 166+66mhz. Don't know what I'm doing wrong. I'll try with a second new one and toss the old one out the window.

Still, I have one gig of ram, and I've seen slight improvements in loading times in stuff like Half-Life 2. Doom 3 is unaffected, and neither is UT2K.

The best and most noticeable improvement is in World of Warcraft. Much less lag/skipping/stopping in Ironforge and while riding the griphon. I could even increase the maximum viewing distance to the max and keep good framerates (although it still dips into the 15-20s sometimes).

[NutWrench]

You meathead. We said get a stick of PC2700 ram. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

The reason neither stick is showing up in the BIOS as 200Mhz is because of your older stick of PC2700 is not rated to run faster than 166Mhz (333Mhz effective). If your BIOS tried to force both sticks to run at 200Mhz (400Mhz effective), the slower ram stick will become unstable and your computer will either crash or be unbootable. Basically, all of your ram will only run as fast as the slowest stick in your computer. It's the only way the computer can boot and be stable.

Each stick of PC2700 ram runs at 166Mhz, but when you have two of them in a computer, the computer can access both ram sticks at the same time over different memory channels, so the effective speed is double.

[Jeff]

So when I get my next upgrade (whenever I get it), I'll get a motherboard that supports dual channel memory. My current one doesn't, so it wouldn't work. Not gonna buy a new motherboard just because I want dual channel RAM. Until my machine runs like a tank (eg. my mom or dad's computers), then there's absolutely no need for a full upgrade.

[Sephiroth]

If the PC3200 DIMM is not running at its max rate then force it to, it's warenty says it can do it, (if you bought good RAM) then just overclock the DIMM or DIMMS to 400MHz

HOWEVER with one being PC2700 and the other being PC3200, this can't be done, well it can but not properly.

[Simon Charles]

The plan is to get a second PC3200 stick soon and toss the old 2700 out the window so both 'new' sticks will run at the same speed. But I don't know how to 'force' it to run at a certain speed.

[NutWrench]

If you have the RAM timings set on 'Auto' in the BIOS, then the BIOS should autodetect it. If you add a new RAM stick that runs at a different speed, the BIOS might try to set both sticks to run at the faster speed. If the slower stick can't handle it, you computer will reboot automatically and the BIOS will select the slower speed for both sticks.

[Simon Charles]

NutWrench said:
If you have the RAM timings set on 'Auto' in the BIOS, then the BIOS should autodetect it. If you add a new RAM stick that runs at a different speed, the BIOS might try to set both sticks to run at the faster speed. If the slower stick can't handle it, you computer will reboot automatically and the BIOS will select the slower speed for both sticks.



I have the BIOS set to "auto". I have to do this, otherwise I have to run my Athlon 3000 at 1.7 ghz.

Right now, the BIOS is set to run the CPU at 2.1 ghz (2167). 2600 is selectable, but then the computer freezes at boot up. Don't know why.

Anyhoo. Selecting the CPU to run at 2.1 automatically forces the memory to either "auto" or "333". The "400" choice dissapears. If I run the CPU at 1.7, then I can run the memory at 400.

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

What processor do you have?

[Simon Charles]

Inanimate Carbon Rod said:
What processor do you have?



Athlon XP 3000+

[Simon Charles]

*Bump*

Can anyone help? Now I'm getting crashes and reboots in memory-hungry games. Are there programs that can test memory to make sure my stick is indeed working correctly and/or compatible with my mobo?

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

Right now, the BIOS is set to run the CPU at 2.1 ghz (2167).
--- That is the correct speed for your processor. Anything faster would be overclocking.

http://www.memtest86.com/ - this program can test your memory, it will take a long time to complete.

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

Also it could be that you have the 333fsb Barton 3000, making almost useless to have the faster ram.

[DudeMiester]

If it says it's running at 200Mhz, then it's running at DDR400. You see the clockspeeds are doubled with DDR, because it can send two pieces of information per clock signal, rather then one. So that's why they say effective 400Mhz, when actually it's running at 200Mhz.

[Simon Charles]

Inanimate Carbon Rod said:
Right now, the BIOS is set to run the CPU at 2.1 ghz (2167).
--- That is the correct speed for your processor. Anything faster would be overclocking.

http://www.memtest86.com/ - this program can test your memory, it will take a long time to complete.



Thanks. The problem is I'm getting crashes and reboots where I didn't used to.

The first time I bought an additionnal 512 mb of ram, it was cheap, generic, no name brand. So when I installed it, it crashed pretty much every game when the extra memory was being used, such as Unreal 2, for example.

Now, it does the same, but far less frequently. So far, it's only done it in WOW, during the most memory-trashing moments (gripphon rides). After three consecutive crashes, I've switched the sticks. I've put my old one back in bank 1, and the new one in bank 2 (Before, the new one was in bank 1 and vice-versa).

So I got the feeling my mobo just would not accept running with 1 gig of ram, which is illogical. It's far more simple to assume my new stick of ram is acting up the more memory is being used.

It's still annoying though. I could never get my mobo to work with more than 512 mb of ram.

[Simon Charles]

*Bump*

Still lots of crashes. I don't know what to do. If the stick of ram is good, what does it mean then? Seems like my mobo simply refuses to use more than 512 mb or ram

[DudeMiester]

If you'ver got 4 memory slots, try putting them in slot 1 and 3. Also, let it run for a while (e.g. overnight) doing some memory intensive benchmark (e.g. memtest) so it can burn in, then it will be more stable. Also, you shold check your mobo BIOS manual in case there is anything you should modify (e.g. Bank Interleaving, memory timings, command rate, etc). If you force a looser memory timing through the BIOS (e.g. 3-3-3-x) then you might get the needed stability. btw, memory timings are generally ordered:

[CAS Latancy]-[RAS to CAS Delay]-[RAS Precharge Time]-[Cycle Time or Active Precharge Delay]

As for bank interleaving, if your stick of RAM has chips on both sides then it has two banks, so if you count the total number of banks of RAM you have, you can then set bank interleaving to use a number of banks less then that. Bank interleaving basically is like RAID for your RAM, although it's most useful with a dual channel memory controller, which I don't think you have. You can probably just leave the setting on auto though.

Also, you should update your BIOS to the latest one provided by your mobo manufacturer. You can check their website for the latest BIOS and instructions on how to update. Your mobo manual will also have instructions. This is probably the first thing you should do, because it could be an BIOS error that's causing the problems.

[NutWrench]

Did you end up getting two matching sticks or are you still using the two different speed ram sticks?

[Simon Charles]

NutWrench said:
Did you end up getting two matching sticks or are you still using the two different speed ram sticks?



I'm still stuck with the two different sticks for the moment. My bios is as updated as can be, and I guess I'll have to run that mem thingy overnight.

[Simon Charles]

*Bump*

After many crashes, freezes and reboots, I've tried the new stick of ram alone. Never had a problem since.

I thought different ram sticks could work together. Maybe mine don't like one another? http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[8IronBob]

Are you sure that the two sticks of RAM were identical? That can probably solve some problems. I think of sticks of RAM like batteries for a flashlight or a remote. If the batteries for the remote control or the flashlight are not alike, then it won't function. Same thing I see with sticks of RAM for a PC, if the sticks of RAM that I have are not alike, then the results may not be pretty, I can tell you that right now. Does this sound like something you should be considering?

[Simon Charles]

Well, as I said earlier in the thread, I knew very well both sticks were not alike, right from the start. But the fastest should have been brought down to the speed of the slowest. So I still can't see what would cause such severe crashes and reboots.

[8IronBob]

Simon Charles said:
Well, as I said earlier in the thread, I knew very well both sticks were not alike, right from the start. But the fastest should have been brought down to the speed of the slowest. So I still can't see what would cause such severe crashes and reboots.



Oh yes, I see what you mean now. The DDR that you were referring to means Dual Data Rate, which is mainly an Intel-based RAM designator that means that it can move twice as fast as the old SD RAM can. Especially the Dual-Channel DDR like I got, which can probably move even faster yet. Mine was already 1 GB DDR2 RAM right from the start, thanks to the company with those famed "spotted" boxes. I can testify to the Dual-Channel RAM. Of course, I dunno if AMD's using Dual-Channel, I highly doubt that.

[Simon Charles]

8IronBob said:

Simon Charles said:
Well, as I said earlier in the thread, I knew very well both sticks were not alike, right from the start. But the fastest should have been brought down to the speed of the slowest. So I still can't see what would cause such severe crashes and reboots.



Oh yes, I see what you mean now. The DDR that you were referring to means Dual Data Rate, which is mainly an Intel-based RAM designator that means that it can move twice as fast as the old SD RAM can. Especially the Dual-Channel DDR like I got, which can probably move even faster yet. Mine was already 1 GB DDR2 RAM right from the start, thanks to the company with those famed "spotted" boxes. I can testify to the Dual-Channel RAM. Of course, I dunno if AMD's using Dual-Channel, I highly doubt that.



Okay, but what are you saying about my ram? http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif What does this have to do with me?

[8IronBob]

Simon Charles said:

8IronBob said:

Simon Charles said:
Well, as I said earlier in the thread, I knew very well both sticks were not alike, right from the start. But the fastest should have been brought down to the speed of the slowest. So I still can't see what would cause such severe crashes and reboots.



Oh yes, I see what you mean now. The DDR that you were referring to means Dual Data Rate, which is mainly an Intel-based RAM designator that means that it can move twice as fast as the old SD RAM can. Especially the Dual-Channel DDR like I got, which can probably move even faster yet. Mine was already 1 GB DDR2 RAM right from the start, thanks to the company with those famed "spotted" boxes. I can testify to the Dual-Channel RAM. Of course, I dunno if AMD's using Dual-Channel, I highly doubt that.



Okay, but what are you saying about my ram? http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif What does this have to do with me?



Oh, nothing. I believe that AMD probably doesn't even need the Dual-Channel like the P4 w/ HT processors do, anyway. The AMD processors seem to work better with the DDR RAM, that sort of gives the RAM that special "umph" that will make the PC think it has more RAM than it actually has. Whether that RAM has the extra power over Intel's Dual-Channel, that's beyond me, but I have seen the AMD 64 chip in action with a Media Center PC already, and the TV and Video playback from those in-store demos seem to fly low, probably about the same if not better than Intel-powered Media Center PCs that I've seen, including my HTPC (Home Theater PC) that I put together. I mean, mine will last at least 5 years give or take, but after seeing the AMD 64's power, I started to feel like a nut!

[Simon Charles]

I have no idea what you just said. But thanks.

[JimboC]

Simon Charles said:
But the fastest should have been brought down to the speed of the slowest.


It supposed to work that way, but it doesn't always - as you found out. I've even seen motherboards that couldn't handle 2 different brands of RAM running at the same speed. Most systems are fine as long as both DIMMs are the same speed though.

[DudeMiester]

Simon Charles said:
I have no idea what you just said. But thanks.


That's ok, he doesn't know what he's talking about either. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mryuck.gif

Athlon64s have dual channel DDR memory controller built right into the CPU itself. Which means the CPU has direct access to the RAM, unlike Pentiums and all other Intel CPUs that must go through the northbridge. This means A64s have much faster RAM access then all Intel CPUs, which is ironic since because of the P4s design it needs that bandwidth more then the A64 does, lol!

As for DDR, all that means is double data rate, that is the RAM can send data twice per clock signal. So if it runs at 200Mhz, it can send data 400 million times per second, so they say it;s DDR400 or effective 400Mhz.

As for dual channel memory, this only means that there are two memory controllers available. So that you can access two pieces of RAM at the same time. This is the exact same concept behind RAID for harddrives.

And 8IronBob, no offense, but stop spouting this ignorent bullshit. Research first, post second.

EDIT: 8IronBob, check your PMs.

Now as for your RAM. Probably your mobo forces them to run at the same clockspeed, however it may not force them to run at the same timings, which is needed. However, like I described earlier you can force your mobo to run them at the same speeds and timings. You really should try this, and make you have your mobo manual handy, as it will describe all your BIOS features in more detail.

[Simon Charles]

DudeMiester said:
Now as for your RAM. Probably your mobo forces them to run at the same clockspeed, however it may not force them to run at the same timings, which is needed. However, like I described earlier you can force your mobo to run them at the same speeds and timings. You really should try this, and make you have your mobo manual handy, as it will describe all your BIOS features in more detail.



My BIOS doesn't allow me to change the settings you talked about. But thanks anyway.

[DudeMiester]

Well then you're pretty much screwed. You'll have to buy new RAM, preferably a single 1GB stick. If not, then dual channel verified RAM. If not, then RAM from the same manufacturer, same brand and same type.

Then again, maybe the RAM really is faulty. Hopefully, you can return it and get RAM that falls under one of the above categories I desribed. Although, I don't think it's really the RAM's fault here, more likely your mobo is a POS with bad RAM compatibility.

[Alcoholic 007]

Allthough I do not agree entirely with Dudemeister he is mostly on the target you need to know about.

Are you absolutely certain of your motherboard model number?

There is some large variation between the different model numbers and the type of RAM they can use.

I found several things on the Asus website concearning the motherboard you posted "A7V8X KT400":


DDR400 (PC3200), the latest and fastest DDR memory standard, supports bandwidth up to 3.2GB/s to provide enhanced system performance. (Note: PC3200 Max. to 2 banks only; PC2700 Max. to 4 banks only)



and


3 x DDR DIMM Sockets
Max. 3 GB unbuffered *PC3200 /PC2700/PC2100/PC1600 non-ECC SDRAM Memory
(Note: PC3200 Max. to 2 banks only; PC2700 Max. to 4 banks only)



and


Use only the tested and qualified PC3200-DDR400 DIMMs listed below. Other DDR DIMM manufactured by other vendors may not be suitable for this motherboard.

Vendor Type Size Model
Samsung PC3200 512MB M368L6423DTM-CC4
Samsung PC3200 256MB M368L3223DTM-CC4
Kingston PC3200 512MB KVR400X64C25 / 512
Micron PC3200 256MB MT16VDDT3264AG-403B2 PC3200U-30440-Z
Micron PC3200 128MB MT8VDDT1664AG-403B2 PC3200U-30440-Z
Kingmax PC3200 256MB MPXB62D-68KX3-MBA





So... if I were you, I would follow the guidelines of the ASUS website specifications.

Of the listed ram.. Kingston is my favored RAM.

The kind you need can be found in a few places:
512MB for approx. 88$ (http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=20-141-402&depa=0)
256MB for approx. 46$ (http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=20-141-401&depa=0)
Or the usually more risky... ebay:
50$ 256MB (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=44938&item=6751102281&rd=1&ssPageName=WD1V)


Hope this has been helpful.

[Simon Charles]

Yeah, it's been helpful. Thanks guys. My cousin's coming with the ram on sunday. I'll have 2 identical sticks. If that doesn't work, then I tell him to give me my cash back and get me just one stick of 1 gig.

[8IronBob]

Simon Charles said:
Yeah, it's been helpful. Thanks guys. My cousin's coming with the ram on sunday. I'll have 2 identical sticks. If that doesn't work, then I tell him to give me my cash back and get me just one stick of 1 gig.



Should be a good Easter present if it does work, best of luck with your new configuration!

[Simon Charles]

Well, the new stick is in, identical to the other new one. No problems so far. One is in bank 1, the other in bank 3. Don't know if that changes anything but WOW has been running great. No more freezes, slowdowns or choppiness, not even in Ironforge around the auction house.

So far so good.

[NutWrench]

Cool. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

If your motherboard supports dual-channel DDR ram, then the ram slots should be color-coded. (i.e. blue-black-blue-black). If you only have 2 ram sticks, you should put them in matching color slots.

[DudeMiester]

Actually some mobos do it the other way around too, so you just have to read your manual.

[Simon Charles]

Well, I've had one crash so far, and it's again with WOW, although it's more stable than before. I don't know, can memory overheat? I don't think that would cause a crash.

I'll defragment my drive and clean the hell out of it; that should help.

[DudeMiester]

You could try dusting out your case. Make sure your case fans are working, and if you don't have any, get two (front/back). Could also be your PSU dying. If it's some cheap generic, then it's no surprise.

[Simon Charles]

Yeah, my cousin was quick to point out I was in dire need of fans. It can get a bit hot in the case (although it's dust free). And my PSU is okay.

[DudeMiester]

Well the heat probably isn't causeing problems with your RAM, they're pretty robust. However, your CPU and videocard are much more sensitive.