The Official Doctor Who Thread Pt 1 [Archive] - Page 3

Joe Siegler

07-04-2006, 09:39 PM

Prediction: Rose will regenerate.

See you in a week when I'm right

You're not. New companion info was announced today. With a new name - Martha Jones. It's not gonna be Rose Tyler. I honestly think that's way out there.

http://www.gallifreyone.com/cgi-bin/viewnews.cgi?id=EEVkpukkVkceqCQOEO&tmpl=newsrss

http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/news/companion.shtml

http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/gallery/martha/

Also, did anyone (i.e. Joe :p) see the awful 3D Children in Need special from 1993, Dimensions in Time? That had some of the (then) cast of EastEnders in it... and no Daleks :tinyted:

That's the only time Doctor #6 met the Brigadier. :)

Yeah, but Coronation Street helped kill Doctor Who... although since Who was deliberately killed off by the Beeb, that's like blaming a guillotine for beheading someone :(

Well, TECHNICALLY, Doctor Who was never cancelled by the BBC. It was formally put on hiatus after 1989, and was always "maybe coming back", but a formal cancellation order was never issued. Not that I'm aware of, and I was following pretty closely then.

ShakeItBaby

07-04-2006, 10:38 PM

Ok that's encouraging. I'd be glad to be proven wrong on that theory, new blood would definitely be better.

Mountain Man

07-05-2006, 08:00 AM

I honestly think that's way out there.
Yeah, it's a pretty wacky theory. RTD may be capable of writing crap like Love & Monsters, but I seriously doubt he would give us nonsense like Rose regenerating.

ShakeItBaby

07-05-2006, 08:24 AM

I'm hoping too that he doesn't, however the pieces of the puzzle are all there to enable it as a possibility, IMO.

In Deadly Assassin, the Master tried to use the Eye of Harmony to get a new regen cycle. The same (or a related, it was never made clear) Eye is also referenced in the Who movie with McGann as part of the Tardis, when the Master again tried to do something similar. We also know Timelords can use human bodies to regenerate, eg Keeper of Traken.

This time around, we know that Rose has previously been affected by the "Heart of the Tardis", which it would be reasonable to assume is the same as, or at least connected with, the Tardis Eye from the Who movie. Differently named, but in both cases, it involved looking into the forbidden light, so very likely the same. We can also posit the idea that if Timelords can use human bodies to regenerate, then it is not a total stretch to imagine that a human, having been altered by powerful things that "nobody is meant to see" could thus gain the regen powers of a Timelord.

Finally, remember the Romana regen - where she tried on several possible bodies before settling on the previously seen body of Princess Whatshername. Going back further, the Troughton to Pertwee regen sort of had body selection as well, with Troughton rejecting a number of personas as they flashed onscreen - in those days of minimal FX, that was probably the best they could do, but it might still be considered as a "trying on" of bodies, in a continuity sense, to further establish that feature as a Timelord power.

Cut to today. The new actress has just been in the show, and the character was apparently killed. If Rose does regenerate, she might "try on" that body and choose it, or be forced to choose it for some semi-technical reason. She regens, and now she's a NEW PERSONALITY, as all regens go. Her mother and boyfriend freak out, she's "not the same Rose anymore". So Rose as an identity has to "die", thus the new regen gets to take on a new name, a fresh start cut loose from the old life and people, in order to find her way. And cos every Timelord regen has different personality traits, it's pretty much as if she was a brand new companion anyway.

I contend that that whole chain of events would satisfy the continuity, the after-death narration, and the new actress and name. So it still sounds plausible to me. Also the other reasons I put earlier also still hold. And furthermore, bringing back the same just seen and recently killed actress with a new character name would need some damn good explaining from RTD too, just as much as a Rose regen would, to avoid the charge of shabby writing - and a twin sister gimmick sure ain't gonna cut it. So I'm still hanging on to my regen idea as a plausible theory for now, until I've been proven right or wrong either in this ep or, God forbid, having to wait for the Christmas one. I'd be happy if I'm wrong though, really. Totally new storylines would be much better than having to see that awful Jackie again in season three.

Joe Siegler

07-05-2006, 08:42 AM

But it would also contravene a lot of what's happened in the modern Who for this to work. The onscreen implication is that Rose doesn't retain anything from her time vortex experience, from the stated fact that she doesn't remember it, plus the visual cue that the "powers left her". I don't see how this leaves her with the power to regenerate when she isn't of the same race as the Doctor. Now I'm not naieve enough to think she isn't, but there's also her dad, mum who seem far more firmly planted as humans.

The only other times that the "power source inside the tardis" revived someone was Chang Lee & Grace Holloway in the McGann movie. They were humans and they were just revived.

Granted, it's fiction you can do what you want, but your guess assumes that Rose is a Gallifreyan if she will regenerate. If she was of his kind, then he would likely know about it, and there would have been some hint of it on screen by now, since RTD loves to tease with stuff like that.

I'm sorry, there's just too many problems with this theory - I don't buy it at all. Especially since the new compnaion has a new name.

ShakeItBaby

07-05-2006, 09:05 AM

Sorry, I may not have been clear enough. I'm not suggesting that she is a Gallifreyan who's forgotten her past, or that in regenerating she would become an actual Timelord. All I'm suggesting is that her experiences with the time vortex changed her physically in some lasting way that hasn't been immediately obvious until now when it's needed. Even though the godlike power was sucked out of her by Eccleston, it was still in there for quite a while and she did have tremendous power for that time - who knows what else it was doing to her insides. So, sure it appeared to be all over after Bad Wolf and she may not remember it now or feel anything different... until perhaps the point when she "dies" and then it kicks off. I would argue that it at least leaves open the possibility of the Doctor yelling "Of course! The time vortex from last season must have altered Rose's genetics to make her partly like a Timelord! What a fabulous deus ex machina to save her life just as all looked lost, so we can have the kiddies clapping like mad and hankering for season three, instead of a dirty Adric ending with them bawling their eyes out with grief!"

Also thanks for reminding me of the McGann revivals, I'd forgotten those. More stretching of the mythos there. And as for the new name - think of it as like new body, new identity, the past is too painful, she could CHOOSE to take a new name in order to help her move on. Besides, explaining the new name of the new companion when she just died as a different character a couple of eps ago would be just as difficult and potentially shonky. Anyway, I'm not saying I'm certain my theory is right, it's just fun to hypothesise while we're waiting.

Heh, also, it wouldn't be the first time RTD has pulled something out of his ass... :D

ShakeItBaby

07-05-2006, 09:16 AM

Another possibility that one could argue has been foreshadowed throughout the season is the Doctor pondering whether he'd be willing to sacrifice himself/the universe/the world in order to save Rose's life. We've also seen the Doctor breathe ten years of his life into that Tardis crystal, which is another new series "Timelord power" invention that I don't recall having any comparable old series equivalent. Would RTD be brassy enough to risk the furore of having the Doctor "give" one of his lives to his beloved Rose, and invent some technobabble that references the previous Tardis crystal setup device to fob it off with? Remember, RTD writes for today's kids more than yesterday's fans, he isn't going to let a little thing like continuity keep him from pumping out what he thinks is a cool dramatic device.

EDIT: Rose the Valeyard, now THAT would be a hilarious atrocity... :D

Joe Siegler

07-05-2006, 09:39 AM

I'm sorry, I don't buy it at all.

supermeerkat

07-05-2006, 02:53 PM

Shakeitbaby: very inventive ideas, but I don't agree either.

I think there is a more prosaic explanation for Rose's voice over: it's simply foreshadowing to add dramatic tension to the story. As a narrative device it's not uncommon, either.

Dave-ros

07-05-2006, 03:07 PM

^ Like American Beauty, you mean... but then, why at the start of the first episode did we see Rose standing on a beach? (Reminds me, for some strange reason, of Victoria standing on the beach as the TARDIS left at the end of Fury from the Deep... okay, sorry, nerd alert! :o)

supermeerkat

07-05-2006, 03:20 PM

I found these, whilst looking for a Doctor Who related nerd image for you Dave-ros!

http://www.btinternet.com/~nelson_evergreen/Comics/Resources/nerddalek1.gif
http://www.btinternet.com/~nelson_evergreen/Comics/Resources/nerddalek2.gif

supermeerkat

07-05-2006, 03:23 PM

^ Like American Beauty, you mean... but then, why at the start of the first episode did we see Rose standing on a beach?

A symbolic representation of the afterlife?

Mountain Man

07-05-2006, 03:24 PM

but then, why at the start of the first episode did we see Rose standing on a beach?
That's the clue that leads me to believe that her death will be metaphorical in nature. Perhaps the Doctor is forced to leave her behind for some reason and she'll be emotionally devastated, or maybe it will be a deliberate decision (say, for example, Rose screws up badly enough that the Doctor doesn't want her around any more. Sort of like how he ditched Adam at the end of The Long Game. Maybe it will have something to do with the alt-earth version of Peter Tyler?). Or it could be that the death and destruction to come in part two will be so horrific that the joy of traveling with the Doctor that Rose once felt will "die", similiar to how Teagan just couldn't take it any more at the end of Resurrection of the Daleks.

There are a lot of possibilities, of course, but I'm reasonably convinced that it's a metaphorical death, and I'm all but certain that Rose will not regenerate, not unless RTD wants an all-out riot on his hands.

Dave-ros

07-05-2006, 04:41 PM

Damn you, supermeerkat :tinyted: :p

And Mountain Man, I was thinking something similar -- it could "stop being fun" for Rose to travel with the Doctor, and thus disillusioned, she stays on Earth (or maybe the parallel Earth?) to live out a dull but safe existence... hence my reference to Victoria, who was sick of there being something awful wherever they went (not to mention how they always ended up on Earth :p).

Let's just wait three days and find out, eh? ;)

Scotty

07-05-2006, 06:57 PM

In "Parting of the Ways", the Doctor recorded a message foretelling his death.

As Rose has now seen Torchwood, the Cybermen, and the Daleks, she has enough information to record the message at the beginning of "Army of Ghosts" the next time she's in the Tardis.

Mountain Man

07-05-2006, 07:46 PM

Let's just wait three days and find out, eh? ;)
Ah, where's the fun in that? :p

Joe Siegler

07-05-2006, 10:19 PM

Agreed, and I've postulated some really out there shit for Doctor Who, but that's REALLY REALLY out there. :)

supermeerkat

07-06-2006, 06:28 AM

Agreed, and I've postulated some really out there shit for Doctor Who, but that's REALLY REALLY out there. :)

Do tell.

Joe Siegler

07-06-2006, 09:28 AM

One time back in the 80's a fan club I was involved in got a rumour started that made it all the way back to the Dr Who production office, and JNT himself had to issue a denial. I was rather proud of that. The rumour was that the Master was going to save Adric at the last second off the ship from Earthshock, and Adric was so mad that the Doctor left him to die that he was going to become a "companion" to the Master. :)

One was my way of doing a multi Doctor regeneration story, showing how Doc 8 regenerated into Doc 9. Would require McGann, Eccelston, Tennant, and Tennant's replacement to be in the same story. I'll need to type that all out again sometime.

Dave-ros

07-06-2006, 11:31 AM

This just in: the three Daleks are going to have names! :eek:

(Source: BBC TV gameshow called Totally Doctor Who -- it was a question for the viewers at home to answer after watching Saturday's episode...)

supermeerkat

07-06-2006, 12:38 PM

This just in: the three Daleks are going to have names! :eek:

According to Eddie Izzard Daleks already have names: Steve and Kev.

Dave-ros

07-06-2006, 12:48 PM

Yes, but who's the third one? -- don't tell me, it's Zeg from the old TV21 comic strip, who accidentally invented metalert and became near-indestructible, and challenged the golden Emperor for leadership...

Or................... could they be Alpha, Beta and Omega??? (Answer: no, they wouldn't do such a big reference to an old story that only exists as a soundtrack and photonovel!)

Mountain Man

07-06-2006, 03:34 PM

The rumour was that the Master was going to save Adric at the last second off the ship from Earthshock, and Adric was so mad that the Doctor left him to die that he was going to become a "companion" to the Master. :)
That's actually a pretty cool idea, though I doubt Matthew Waterhouse could have pulled it off. I don't think he had the acting chops to play "evil".

Dave-ros

07-08-2006, 01:53 PM

Well, there we go...

The four Daleks do indeed have names -- apparently some sort of secret Dalek group that used "imagination" to dream up new strategies, a bit like the Battle Computer in Remembrance of the Daleks...

Needless to say, the Daleks completely pwnt the Cybermen :p

Oh, and Rose's "death"? She's now in the parallel world with her mother and parallel-universe father, never to see the Doctor again as the breach is closed... how sad!

But then at the end Catherine Tate in a wedding dress appeared in the TARDIS, as a lead-in to the Christmas special... hmm!

Mountain Man

07-08-2006, 09:43 PM

A pretty solid ending to Season 2. A little more action oriented than part one, but overall very good. I like how the Doctor just kind of hung back, piecing things together instead of immediately taking action.

And I was right: Rose's "death" was metaphorical, though it could also be a play on words since she's officially dead in her own universe. I really didn't think we would see nonsense like Rose regenerating.

Strong acting from both leads for the final scenes. David Tennant really stepped up to the plate for this one. He had gravitas fitting of the Doctor, which was great to see. Billie Piper also did a knock-out job, though Rose being all weepy is something I think we saw too much of from that character, and it was a little over the top here and, I thought, a little annoying. But all in all, a solid send-off for this character.

It looks like the question "Who would win in a fight between Daleks and Cybermen?" has been answered once and for all. The Cybermen didn't stand a chance! And I had to laugh out loud when the Daleks started talking smack to the Cyberleader:

"You are superior at only one thing."
"What is that."
"Dying."

And that cliffhanger! Woah!

Though I have to ask: How did Pete know to teleport to that exact spot at that exact moment? And why wasn't he immediately sucked into the void when he materialised?

Dave-ros

07-09-2006, 03:30 AM

To MM:

Short answer: because :p

Long answer: beeeeeeeeeeeeecaaaaaaaaauuuuuuuuuuuuuse! :hhg:

Seriously, though, it was just luck (i.e. dramatic license) that he did it at the right time and to the right spot, and he wasn't there for long enough for the "suck" action to build him up a sufficient speed for him to be pulled in... but he certainly went there because otherwise his "wife" would never have forgiven him if he hadn't tried to save her daughter!

ShakeItBaby

07-09-2006, 09:58 AM

Well they did a good job of it, I thought. I'm also glad to have my "idea" disproven, as it means a totally fresh start next year. Dunno how they'll pull off the actress reappearance dilemma though; they'll probably just brazen through it without any attempt at an explanation, like with Colin Baker.

Cliffhanger was a bit underwhelming I thought, however. Sets the tone for another "joke" episode at Xmas. And yeah, I loved that Dalek smack-talk. :D

Mountain Man

07-09-2006, 12:17 PM

And see, I liked the cliffhanger, because after the melodramatic and needlessly long "good bye" scene, the cliffhanger made me feel like I was finally watching Doctor Who again. Hopefully the soap opera schmaltz will leave with Rose and the producers can get on with good old fashioned Doctor Who.

Dave-ros

07-09-2006, 12:52 PM

Yeah, I also thought the ending was too long -- but I suppose they had to have a proper goodbye, as otherwise it'd have been too "heartless" an ending for Rose... mind you, how long was Susan's goodbye scene in The Dalek Invasion of Earth? (Felt like half the episode!)

Tang Lung

07-09-2006, 02:36 PM

Well, at least they didn't ruin the Daleks too much, but I found the whole thing corny beyond beleif..its more like a soap opera than a sci fi. I loved the beggining banter between the Dalek and the Cyberman though, really confirmed the Daleks superiority over everything, ''There are 5 million cybermen, how many are you?'' ''4..'' ''How do you expect to defeat 5 million cybermen with 4 daleks'' ''We could kill 5 million cybermen with 1 dalek''.

Or something to that effect :)

ShakeItBaby

07-09-2006, 08:33 PM

Yeah the farewell should have ended at that powerful wall scene. The beach gibbering and blabbing was too forced, especially having the Doctor almost pull out an unDoctorly declaration of schmaltz.

Now, let's all pray for Hinchcliff-era-style Who next year!

Mountain Man

07-09-2006, 10:48 PM

Yeah the farewell should have ended at that powerful wall scene.
Totally. The last shot of the story should have been the Doctor turning and walking away, then cut to a wide shot of the TARDIS interior so we can get that wonderful cliffhanger!

ShakeItBaby

07-09-2006, 11:32 PM

Meh the cliffhanger. It's only virtue is that it makes one mildly curious. But it does signpost another fear-lacking humor-based gag ep full of RTD innuendo, which we all agree is not the best side of Who.

cheeseboy

07-10-2006, 06:06 AM

As much as I enjoyed the series finale, am I the only one who is horrified beyond belief at the prospect of Catherine Tate being in the christmas special?

Dave-ros

07-10-2006, 12:15 PM

Yeah, I can hear five minutes of "am I bothered, look at my face, bothered, face, bothered, I'm not bothered!" etc. etc. in the Xmas special. But am I bothered? :p

Joe Siegler

07-11-2006, 10:19 AM

Well, there we go...

The four Daleks do indeed have names -- apparently some sort of secret Dalek group that used "imagination" to dream up new strategies, a bit like the Battle Computer in Remembrance of the Daleks...

That's an intersting development since it's been stated that the Daleks can't do that (Destiny of the Daleks & Resurrection of). Even in Remembrance the Daleks themselves couldn't do it, they needed a kid.

Oh, and Rose's "death"? She's now in the parallel world with her mother and parallel-universe father, never to see the Doctor again as the breach is closed... how sad!

I rather liked that. She's "dead" but not dead. I did feel the dad popped through the breach, and then caught her was a bit of a copout. I'd have to rewatch, but didn't Rose have her transporter on her still?

But then at the end Catherine Tate in a wedding dress appeared in the TARDIS, as a lead-in to the Christmas special... hmm!

Not being from England, who is this woman?

That's actually a pretty cool idea, though I doubt Matthew Waterhouse could have pulled it off. I don't think he had the acting chops to play "evil".

I agree completely. But the reality of that wasn't a consideration. We were going for a shock rumour, and it worked. :D

I don't have a ton of time here, but a few random comments on the finale:

Best episode of Modern Who - by far. A good side note to that is that it was directed by the same guy who was believed to have directed one of the best episodes of all of JNT's era, too, "Caves of Androzani".

Would have preferred the episode end without the final beach scene. It had a nice visual flair, and I was glad they kept the Doctor from saying "I Love you", but we did get a really long goodbye scene in "Girl in the Fireplace", and nobody seemed to mind that one.

Really REALLY funny dialogue between the Dalek and the Cybermen.. "Daleks have no sense of style" - "That is obvious". That stuff was great.

Did anyone think that the Cybermen would really defeat the Daleks?

The mention of Skaro was nice. "The Cult of Skaro". :D

The visual on the opening of the Genesis Ark was cool. Presumably it went back into the void again with the Daleks & Cybermen, so they still have it for future use.

Also guys.. The Christmas episodes are not intended to be super serious - they're meant to be light and fluffy. I don't have a problem with that at all. They all can't be deadly serious. Has to be some changeup, and a Christmas episode is a perfect time.

Now, let's all pray for Hinchcliff-era-style Who next year!

Pass. I didn't much care for the majority of Tom Baker's era anyway. There are a few individual stories here and there I liked, but as a whole, I didn't care for TBaker's era, although I liked JNT's year of his run.

Also, let's hope that we get a formal announcement of more Who. After Eccleston's year, we got two Xmas specials, and two more seasons. Right now we have one season to go - I'd like to see them give it a few more years out now.

Dave-ros

07-11-2006, 11:38 AM

Not being from England, who is this woman?
Catherine Tate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catherine_Tate) is currently our most famous comedienne, which isn't saying much :p Most famous for her obnoxious teenage schoolgirl character, who's incredibly sarcastic to everyone and always ends up shouting "am I bothered?!" at any teacher who tries speaking to her. Other characters include an incredibly rude grandmother ("What a f**kin' liberty!") and a gay-seeming man who strenuously denies being gay ("How very very dare you!") ;)

Basically another current celeb appearing in the new Who...

Joe Siegler

07-11-2006, 11:40 AM

:doh: -> Should have thought to look at Wikipedia. :D

supermeerkat

07-11-2006, 11:51 AM

[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catherine_Tate]Catherine Tate[/url....a gay-seeming man who strenuously denies being gay ("How very very dare you!") ;)

Not even very original - that line is from a Dick Emery character. The stuff Tate does is just a weak version of the fast show.

supermeerkat

07-11-2006, 11:54 AM

Did anyone think that the Cybermen would really defeat the Daleks?

Depends which type of Cybermen you're talking about. Even though I have no evidence to support this,I believe "The Invasion" era Cybermen could kick some serious dalek ass.

Also, does anyone else think the new Cybermen voices are any good? I don't like them at all. I much prefer "Tomb of the Cybermen" era voices with their scary electronic modulation.

Dave-ros

07-11-2006, 11:55 AM

I thought it was one of Frankie Howerd's old catchphrases -- the character is a parody of gay comedians like Howerd and Kenneth Williams... or that's what I think, anyway (you may notice I myself am active on Wikipedia and have made changes to the page for The Catherine Tate Show ;)).

Mountain Man

07-11-2006, 12:00 PM

Not knowing anything about Catherine Tate, her presence in the Christmas special doesn't particularly concern me. I'll judge her performance when I see it. Of course, I'm reminded how everybody was apalled when pop-star Billie Pipe was cast as the Doctor's companion, and look at what a boon that turned out to be. :)

Joe Siegler

07-11-2006, 12:38 PM

Chimera

07-11-2006, 01:15 PM

All I can say is that I've seen the last episode twice so far... and cried my eyes out both times.

It was brilliant.

ShakeItBaby

07-11-2006, 06:02 PM

Pass. I didn't much care for the majority of Tom Baker's era anyway.

BLASPHEMY! :mad: :tinyted: :D

Otto von Keisinger

07-11-2006, 07:01 PM

Pass. I didn't much care for the majority of Tom Baker's era anyway.
Would you prefer Colin Baker? :tinyted:

Mountain Man

07-11-2006, 10:35 PM

Actually, Joe is a fan of Colin Baker. :p

ShakeItBaby

07-11-2006, 11:44 PM

Actually, Joe is a fan of Colin Baker. :p

DOUBLE BLASPHEMY! :tinyted: :mad:

Joe Siegler

07-12-2006, 12:08 AM

My favorite is Hartnell. Colin Baker was a great actor. Problem is most of his stories were ass -but his performance was fine.

Don't get me wrong - there's a lot of good in Tom Baker's era. I just think it's highly overrated.

I don't actively dislike any Doctor, but I like Hartnell/CBaker a lot, as their Doctor characters are actually quite similar. I think my least favorite is probably Jon Pertwee. But only because SOMEONE has to be listed last; as I said, I like all of them for some reason or another.

cheeseboy

07-12-2006, 04:09 AM

Mountain Man

07-12-2006, 08:17 AM

Just a quick question about the last episode, its been bugging me for a while.

The daleks and cybermen all get sucked through into void space as they are covered in the void stuff, a result of them breaking through to our universe. But what about those cybermen that were created in our universe? Are they still here or did they get sucked in as well? Also, how was the torchwood leader lady able to break her cyberman programming and 'rebel'?
The theories I've seen go something like this:

The Cybermen created in "our" universe were converted using materials and armor plating brought from the alternate universe, so they were still covered with void stuff.

As for the Torchwood chick breaking her programming, some say it's because she entered the conversion process in a highly emotional state, and because of the "quick conversion" done by the Cybermen (rather than a proper conversion done in one of their factories), the programming didn't fully "take", and she remembered her last most powerful emotion (a sense of duty and regret).

Mountain Man

07-12-2006, 08:21 AM

Don't get me wrong - there's a lot of good in Tom Baker's era. I just think it's highly overrated.
I agree. I get a bit tired of people who act like the Tom Baker years are the definitive Doctor Who.

As for my favorites, I really like Peter Davison, partly because I like him as an actor and partly (mostly?) because he was my first Doctor (first episode I ever saw was "Logopolis", which had Baker's Doctor regenerating into Davison's; course, with that being my first episode, I didn't have a clue in hell what was going on!). My second favorite is probably John Pertwee. Christopher Eccelston is somewhere near the top as well.

Dave-ros

07-12-2006, 11:45 AM

Jon Pertwee, you heretic :tinyted:

Although that's not the worst misspelling of his name ever... there's probably a list of them on a website somewhere, but in Doctor Who: The Seventies he listed some of his favourites, like Mr. Bert Wee, Mr John Peewee and Jan Putrid :D

Joe Siegler

07-15-2006, 12:13 PM

Peter Davison was my first Doctor as well, however my first story was "The Five Doctors". How's that for a confusing start? :D

I've later grown to think that since 5 Docs was my first, I had a greater appreciation for more than one Doctor, and I wasn't just stuck on one guy.

Dave-ros

07-15-2006, 01:54 PM

Peter Davison was my first too, though I think I saw Tom Baker regenerate into him at the end of Logopolis, but I would have been 3 or 4 at the time. I certainly remember seeing the repeats of The Krotons and Carnival of Monsters way back in 1981 (I think that was "The Five Faces of Doctor Who"). Weird thing is, I'm pretty sure I can remember Destiny of the Daleks, which must have been a repeat as I would have been a few weeks shy of 2 when it was first shown! Definitely saw the edited repeat of Genesis of the Daleks in 1982, though...

Joe Siegler

07-16-2006, 06:23 PM

Genesis is out on DVD now. Picked it up along with Colin's Revelation. :)

I also finally got the Eccleston set on DVD too - all came in the mail while I was away on vacation, so it was a nice pile to come home to. :D

Mountain Man

07-18-2006, 09:36 PM

I had an interesting thought today (yes, just one; don't want to overwork the ol' brain. :p):

It was confirmed last year that Billie Piper had signed up for Season 3, but now with Rose (apparently) unable to ever return from alt-earth, I starting wondering what other ideas the producers might use to bring the character back. Flashbacks are one obvious idea. Then I had another idea: Imagine a multi-Doctor story with Doc 10 meeting up with Doc 9 and Rose. Of course, there would have to be some explanation for why she didn't later recognize 10, but that's not an insurmountable problem by any stretch. This would, of course, depend on Christopher Eccelston reprising his role as the Doctor, which I'm not sure he would have any interest in doing, but you never know.

Joe Siegler

07-19-2006, 09:35 AM

It's been pretty much accepted that they said that to throw people off the track given what happened with Eccleston's departure debacle by the BBC.

I've been hearing rumours she might pop up in some capacity in the Christmas Special, but that's it.

As for multi doctor stories, RTD has said he doesnt' like them, and won't be doing one while he's producing the show.

My gut feeling is that if they ever do a movie out of this incarnation of Dr Who, there's only one story that should be done there. The Time War. THAT can be your multi doctor story. Also show the McGann to Eccelston regeneration.

supermeerkat

07-22-2006, 11:30 AM

The dalek song (http://artistic-insanity.net/song/daleksong.html)

KillerByte

07-23-2006, 03:43 AM

The dalek song (http://artistic-insanity.net/song/daleksong.html)

:eek:

ShakeItBaby

07-23-2006, 05:39 PM

Then I had another idea: Imagine a multi-Doctor story with Doc 10 meeting up with Doc 9 and Rose.

Forget those clowns. GET TOM BAKER BACK WHILE HE'S STILL ALIVE! :D

Mountain Man

07-23-2006, 09:13 PM

Speaking of multi-Doctor stories, the thing I find odd about "The Three Doctors" is that Docs 2 and 3 deferred to Doc 1, when chronologically, he was the youngest and least experienced. Logically, Docs 1 and 2 should have deferred to Doc 3 since he was presumably older and wiser. Of course, from a fan's viewpoint, Hartnell was the original and thus should be afforded more respect even if it doesn't make sense from a story standpoint.

supermeerkat

07-24-2006, 06:33 AM

I found the following quote at wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Baker)

"In a 2005 interview regarding the series revival, Tom Baker suggested that he be cast as the Master, although in an interview with The Sun newspaper, he claims that he has not watched any episodes of the new series because he "just can't be bothered" [1]. In June 2006, Baker once again expressed interest in the role in a guest column for Radio Times, noting that he "did watch a little bit of the new Doctor Who and I think the new fella, Tennant, is excellent."

Tom Baker as the Master would be kick-ass!

Joe Siegler

07-24-2006, 10:27 AM

Yeah, I was going to mention the Baker as the Master thing. I still stand by my statement that we'll only see a multi Doctor story in an RTD story with the Time War. I do hope that when he eventually leaves the job he has that he has tackled the Time War story before he goes.

As for that Dalek song thing..

http://forums.3drealms.com/images/poohwtf.jpg

supermeerkat

07-24-2006, 11:44 AM

The dalek song made me giggle at it's sheer stupidity. So, I thought I'd share it with the other regulars of this thread. Sorry for any confusion caused.

Joe Siegler

07-24-2006, 12:02 PM

No confusion at all. It was rather silly.

supermeerkat

07-24-2006, 12:22 PM

Joe Siegler

07-24-2006, 01:00 PM

Look in Wikipedia. I saw something there last night about it.

Mountain Man

07-24-2006, 01:14 PM

Tom Baker as the master would be cool, but it would pretty much screw continuity with the TV movie which had the Master apparently annihilated. Unless RTD just kinda forgets about that, like he has seemingly forgotten about the Doctor being half-human nonsense.

Joe Siegler

07-24-2006, 01:18 PM

pbbbbt. Continuity be damned. It's a fictional show with Time Travel at it's core. You can do whatever you want.

The Doctor and half human has some interesting fan theories as to how it can be worked in yet ignored. SPend some time reading relevant bits in Wikipedia.

supermeerkat

07-24-2006, 02:05 PM

Tom Baker as the master would be cool, but it would pretty much screw continuity with the TV movie which had the Master apparently annihilated.

The key word is apparently. I like to think he's trapped in the bowels of the TARDIS, biding his time. I even wrote some fan fiction about it, but that's another story...

Joe Siegler

08-01-2006, 08:26 PM

I just rewatched the Paul McGann movie.

Every time I watch that I get so annoyed that he wasn't given a proper chance to settle into the roll. There's moments in his one off story where he totally nails the Doctor.

One such moment was when Grace was checking his hearts at her house - just brilliant.

Dave-ros

08-02-2006, 02:45 AM

Ever read any of the 8th Doctor novels? His character is a kind of "young man in old-but-young-looking body" -- he looks at the Universe with the eyes of an enthusiastic child, and is also rather attractive to women. But obviously the writers had to make up his character based on that one TV movie, and the audio stories he made... where reviewers noted he sounded a lot more like a friend chatting over a pub table than the other Doctors, who all have classically-trained voices and speak with the Queen's English ;)

Mountain Man

08-02-2006, 09:50 AM

While McGann would likely have made a fine Doctor in a regular series, I shudder to think what Fox would have done with the show if they had been given the opportunity.

Dave-ros

08-02-2006, 11:39 AM

^ Filmed it in front of a live studio audience, who hoot whenever there's a hint of the Doc getting some romance or someone makes a lewd comment? :p

Joe Siegler

08-02-2006, 12:36 PM

While McGann would likely have made a fine Doctor in a regular series, I shudder to think what Fox would have done with the show if they had been given the opportunity.

Fox wasn't making it. They were just showing it. I didn't have a problem with that. But the story is better than it's given credit for. Not great, but better than the crap most people denounce it as.

supermeerkat

08-02-2006, 03:56 PM

The only thing that spoiled the Doctor Who movie was the romance and the bit about the Doctor being half human. Apart from that, it was great.

I liked how the Master controlled people by infecting them with that slime stuff. The Doctor had a great line about that:

"How is she going to open the eye of harmony? She's not human anymore"

or words to that effect...

ShakeItBaby

08-02-2006, 08:14 PM

Another reason the movie has such a bad rep is because the guy who played the Master totally hammed it up to the point of ridiculousness. McGann himself did a fairly decent job.

Mountain Man

08-02-2006, 09:07 PM

Fox wasn't making it. They were just showing it.
I thought the telemovie was a joint production of Fox and the BBC with the prospect of Fox turning it into a regular series?

But the story is better than it's given credit for. Not great, but better than the crap most people denounce it as.
I agree. I just don't think it was very promising as the pilot for a new series of Doctor Who. Course, the recent Season 2 had some pretty dodgy stuff as well, so who knows.

Joe Siegler

08-02-2006, 11:59 PM

I don't know, the only episodes from the new series that were dodgy were Fear Her and Love & Monsters. The rest was pretty darn good.

supermeerkat

08-06-2006, 01:04 PM

I found a rather neat video of the new cyberman, with the Black Sabbath song "Iron Man". (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gex9gAS9IUg)

QuiGonJ

08-06-2006, 03:47 PM

Do you know where I might find a list of Doctor Who stories that are available on DVD? I've been watching some rented stories recently (Pyramids of Mars, Tomb of the Cybermen and Earthshock) and was surprised at how good they were.

I'm particularly interested in having a look at the Troughton / Hartnell era in greater detail

http://www.restoration-team.co.uk/
Has the list and all the making of material

http://home.comcast.net/~smanfred/Latest.html
covers all the US releases and their contents, including Easter eggs

haven't seen any Season 2, but when I went to the San Diego Comic Con a couple of weeks ago, a Sci-Fi exec, sounding much like a 3DR employee, said "nothing had been officially announced yet". However, he didn't tell me I was an idiot for pointing out there was a book liscensee that had said Season 2 would be on Sci-Fi in November, so hopefully that will turn out to be correct.

Joe Siegler

08-07-2006, 09:11 AM

Series 2 will be on Sci-Fi a little earlier than November.

Series Two of the new Doctor Who series starring David Tennant and Billie Piper will, by all indication, see its US debut on September 29 on the Sci Fi Channel, along with Series One repeats earlier in the day. The news hasn't officially been confirmed by the channel; however, an NBC/Universal release (in PDF form) for Sci Fi shows that Doctor Who returns to the schedule on the evening starting at 9pm four episodes, the first two of which are marked "new" (and "repeat" at 11pm and 12am, the usual pattern for a premiere night). Outpost Gallifrey was, in fact, told that the series was "almost certain" to return "this October" recently, although no information was forthcoming until this release. Sci Fi's schedulebot does show four episodes broadcast that evening; in late September, there is almost no likelihood of a Friday night airing of reruns.

Will "The Christmas Invasion" be included? Says Benjamin Elliott of "This Week in Doctor Who," "The Christmas Invasion is 59 minutes long without commercials, so it would either have to be a) skipped and shown later or b) have 15 1/2 minutes chopped out of it to fit SciFi's schedule as currently displayed. It does have an extended trailer for Series 2 that could be cut and the credits will always get squeezed, but that still leaves 13 minutes unaccounted for. SciFi has always felt willing to change their schedule at a moment's notice, so things can always change. They could air Christmas Invasion complete and have filler to finish the 2 hours. But for now, we must assume one of the following 2 scenarios: 9pm Christmas Invasion and 10pm New Earth, or 9pm New Earth and 10pm Tooth and Claw. The Christmas Invasion isn't required to enjoy Series 2, but some references (notably at the end of the series) make more sense if you see it, and as David Tennant's debut story it helps establish the kind of Doctor he is." Also noted is the fact that the Daytime marathon on September 29 on the Sci Fi Channel is the last 8 episodes of Series 1, which makes sense to lead into the new episodes.

We'll bring you official word from Sci Fi as soon as it's official, but this matches everything we've been told about Sci Fi's positive reaction to the first series ratings in the spring and the desire to bring the show back with new episodes by the end of 2006.

Update 6 August: Outpost Gallifrey has heard from our contacts that this is indeed Series Two and that it debuts with the two-hour block on 29 September because the third season of "Battlestar Galactica" debuts the following week with a two-hour episode block. Doctor Who and Galactica will air at 9pm and 10pm, respectively, with another series airing at 8pm throughout October and November, with a short break for the Christmas holidays. Our source also believes that "The Christmas Invasion" is being held back in this first block, and will instead be aired as a special in December. More details soon.

Mountain Man

08-07-2006, 11:26 AM

Watching the program on the Sci-Fi Channel was annoying because the narrative would get abruptly interrupted with commercial breaks, and each episode was trimmed slightly for whatever reason. I much prefer watching the uncut, uninterrupted originals.

Joe Siegler

08-07-2006, 01:00 PM

Well, duh. :)

But it is better than nothing.

Dave-ros

08-07-2006, 01:20 PM

Solution: come to Britain and watch it on the BBC :p

On a related topic, was I imaginging it in 1998 or was an American cable channel (not the Sci-Fi Channel) showing episodes of Red Dwarf late on Friday nights without advert breaks?! Maybe they can only get away with it at such "dead" times when the advertisers don't care?

At the same time I remember the Sci-Fi Channel managed to bloat the Star Trek "Special Edition" to 90 minutes an episode, since they couldn't just limit the number of adverts to 1966 levels, oh no, that would be ludicrous! :doh:

supermeerkat

08-13-2006, 12:30 PM

Just finished watching "Pyramids of Mars" with Tom Baker: it was brilliant!

The Doctor's scarf can be used as a ruler: it has feet and inches on one side, and centimetres and metres on the other. How cool is that!

Dave-ros

08-13-2006, 01:11 PM

That must be a very uneven pattern Madam Nostradamus knitted... :p

Mountain Man

08-13-2006, 09:09 PM

The Doctor's scarf can be used as a ruler: it has feet and inches on one side, and centimetres and metres on the other. How cool is that!
Sounds a bit daft, actually, considering just how stretchy yarn is. :p

On a related note, my wife bought me a Doctor Who scarf for my birthday several years ago. She found some plans on the internet and sent them to a friend of hers who knitted the whole thing up. All told, I think it's around 12 to 14 feet long. I don't wear it often, but I did dress up as the Doctor for a Halloween party. Unfortunately, nobody knew who the heck I was supposed to be!

supermeerkat

08-14-2006, 01:33 PM

Sounds a bit daft, actually, considering just how stretchy yarn is. :p

Not when Tom Baker says it :D

Joe Siegler

08-14-2006, 01:42 PM

Just finished watching "Pyramids of Mars" with Tom Baker: it was brilliant!

I never could get into that story.

Also, there's a reference to Pyramids of Mars in the penultimate episode of the most recent season. When Rose exits the Tardis in "Army of Ghosts", the object next to the Tardis is a direct reference to PoM, according to Russell Davies in a downloadable commentary track.

Joe Siegler

08-17-2006, 10:47 AM

You guys see the news story saying that new TV studios were built in Cardiff for Doctor Who & Torchwood?

Officially, Doctor Who is only comissioned through this current series being made, and Torchwood only throuhg the one that's airing this fall.

But you don't go and build new TV studios for a show that's only going to have one more series filmed. I have interpreted this studio move as the fact that they're going to commit to this new incarnation of Doctor Who for awhile. I wonder when we'll see a formal announcement of that.

Dave-ros

08-17-2006, 11:49 AM

Haven't heard about this -- do you have linkage? They may just be building studios generally for BBC Wales, and they just happen to be about to get used predominantly by Doctor Who and Torchwood. But, on the other hand...

If it's true, I just hope it doesn't work out like when the Beeb built that village in Spain in 1992 for its amazing new soap opera, Eldorado (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eldorado_%28TV_series%29), which lasted a year before being axed :o

Mountain Man

08-17-2006, 02:50 PM

I have pretty much zero interest in the Torchwood series. If it in any way succeeds, it'll be the first Doctor Who spin-off to do so.

Am I right in thinking that the ill-fated K9 and Co. and a series about UNIT featuring Sgt. Benton are the only two Doctor Who spin-offs to date?

Dave-ros

08-17-2006, 02:58 PM

What's this about a Benton spin-off?! Never heard of that, did it even get off the drawing board?

Mountain Man

08-17-2006, 04:38 PM

What's this about a Benton spin-off?! Never heard of that, did it even get off the drawing board?
I read something about it years ago in some book or other. From what I can remember, it was supposed to have a harder edge than anything Doctor Who had done. I'm under the impression that at least a pilot was made (there were photos in the book), but I don't know if it ever aired.

Of course, I could be remembering this all wrong. It was something I came across like 20 years ago.

Edit: Google to the rescue! It was apparently called Wartime (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0176315/combined) and was an authorized independent spin-off. This from IMDB.com (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0176315/plotsummary):

Plot Summary:

Warrant Officer John Benton, a long-serving member of the United Nations Intelligence Taksforce (UNIT), is distracted from his mission to deliver valuable radioactive material to UNIT HQ by ghostly visions of his father, who was killed during World War 2, and his brother Chris, who died as a result of a childhood game that went wrong. Can Benton face these demons of his past and recover to prevent the theft of the radioactive material?

There's also a write-up about it at Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wartime_%28Doctor_Who%29):

Wartime is the title of a short science fiction film, produced direct-to-video in 1987 by Reeltime Pictures. It was the first professionally produced, authorized independent spin-off of the long-running TV series Doctor Who, and the only such production to be made while the originating TV series was still on the air (it ended in 1989).
The Wikipedia entry also links to a detailed synopsis (http://www.drwhoguide.com/wartime.htm).

Dave-ros

08-17-2006, 06:24 PM

Ah, this must be like those other Doctorless spin-offs I saw advertised in the 1990s -- like one with the Sontarans (or as Gaby Roslin on The Big Breakfast called them, "Sonterians"). Haven't watched any of them, though! (I was too busy buying the videos of the actual series in the 1990s!)

Incidentally, has anyone heard of the "parody" version of the series starring Sylvester McCoy, called Professor X or similar? (No, not as in Charles Xavier :tinyted:) I think it was supposed to be the Doctor Who equivalent in the Doctor Who universe, or something similar...

Mountain Man

08-17-2006, 08:33 PM

Yeah, I read about those. They featured Sylvester McCoy essentially reprising his Doctor character and Sophia Aldred essentially reprising her Ace character who just happened to refer to McCoy's character as "Professor" just as she did in Doctor Who. It was before Doctor Who audio stories really took off, and it was basically a way to do Doctor Who without running afoul of intellectual property laws.

I've never actually heard them, but I understand they were quite popular. I suspect the success of this series is what convinced the BBC to start doing their own audio stories.

supermeerkat

08-18-2006, 06:10 AM

supermeerkat

08-18-2006, 06:43 AM

I've just ordered Doctor Who - Lost In Time (http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0002XOZW4/026-1054118-1688440?v=glance&n=283926&s=gateway&v=glance).

It's a compilation of remaining episodes from lost stories. It includes the episodes:

The Daleks' Master Plan - episodes 2, 5 and 10, plus clips from other episodes,
The Moonbase - episodes 2 and 4, plus soundtracks for 1 and 3.
The Underwater Menace - episode 3

The Wheel In Space - episodes 3 and 6

The Abominable Snowman - episode 2

The Enemy of the World - episode 3

Plus loads and loads of other stuff: I can't wait to see it. Unfortunately Mrs Supermeerkat isn't as enthusiastic about Doctor Who as I am, and since we only have 1 TV and dvd player in the house, I'll have to watch snatches of this box set here and there, usually when she is out of the house. :(

Joe Siegler

08-18-2006, 08:03 AM

As well as producing Doctor Who I wonder if RTD is going to get involved in the production of Torchwood (which is an anagram of "Doctor Who", by the way).

If he is, I hope he doesn't doesn't do a "Chris Carter" and spread himself so thinly that both productions suffer, like Millenium and The X files did when CC was involved in both.

RTD is doing Doctor Who. He's also doing Torchwood. AND he's doing "Sarah Jane Investigates". Three. As for the Cris Carter reference... Those shows produce a lot more screentime per year than Doctor Who does. Yes, it appears like a lot of work, but it's 13 episodes for each as opposed to what, 24-26 or so for XFiles and whatnot? Probably not AS big a deal.

As for spinoffs. The official BBC attempts at spinoffs to date are: K9 & Company. That's it. The Stranger, ReelTime, etc are authorized yes - but not official BBC spinoff attempts. They can be equated along the lines of elaborate fan based productions, but they're not "actual spinoffs". They weren't ACTUAL fan productions per se, but they're not really "official" meaning the BBC didn't produce them. The Star Trek "New Adventures" videos come to mind as being an example of a similar production - at least in my mind. I had forgotten about Reeltime when this started actually, but I see 'em as a "side productions", not any sort of Official spinoff in the classic sense of the word.

Now, going forward:

Torchwood
Sarah Jane Investigates
K9 Adventures

Torchwood & SJI are official BBC spinoffs done by the BBC & RTD. SJI News (http://www.gallifreyone.com/cgi-bin/viewnews.cgi?id=EEVuulAZVpWNmQlQFw&tmpl=newsrss). Torchwood has it's own Website (http://www.bbc.co.uk/wales/southeast/sites/torchwood/), as it's airing this fall.

K9 Adventures is being put together by Bob Baker, not the BBC. Bob was the original writer of "The Invisible Enemy" episode of Doctor Who where K9 originated. Baker holds the rights to K9, not the BBC, so he's free to peddle the character on his own, which he's done, apparently. Link (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/4939144.stm).

As for the new studios, here's a link (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/wales/5222610.stm) which talks about them being created FOR Dr Who & Torchwood. As I said before, if they were created for Dr Who, then it's gonna have a longer life than we were aware of, as you don't create studios for something that's gonna be cancelled in a year or two.

Plus loads and loads of other stuff: I can't wait to see it. Unfortunately Mrs Supermeerkat isn't as enthusiastic about Doctor Who as I am, and since we only have 1 TV and dvd player in the house, I'll have to watch snatches of this box set here and there, usually when she is out of the house. :(

It's a great set, I own that. Lots of nostalgic bits. The only maddening thing about the set is that it will leave you with a sesnse of frustration that you can't see the full versions of these things. It's nice to have these bits and pieces, but it's tempered by the realization that it's all lost.

As has been said in this thread before, visit the Recons website here (http://www.recons.com). It's worth seeing what they've done with the lost stories.

Mountain Man

08-18-2006, 11:04 AM

...you don't create studios for something that's gonna be cancelled in a year or two..
Correction: You don't create studios for something you plan to cancel in a year or two. I'm certain that if Doctor Who tanks next season that the BBC will have no qualms about cancelling the series, studio or not. All this means is that the BBC is committed to the series for the long haul provided it remains profitable.

And I think supermeerkat does voice some legitimate concerns. With RTD overseeing three productions, it's almost impossible that he won't drop the ball some where. I think we've already seen some of that in Season 2 which was a bit inconsistent compared to Season 1 which showed evidence of focused energy. It almost seems that after the resounding success of Season 1, RTD entered "coast mode" and stopped giving Doctor Who the attention it deserves.

Joe Siegler

08-18-2006, 11:43 AM

Correction: You don't create studios for something you plan to cancel in a year or two. I'm certain that if Doctor Who tanks next season that the BBC will have no qualms about cancelling the series, studio or not. All this means is that the BBC is committed to the series for the long haul provided it remains profitable.

Valid point. Still, it's a good sign when they say they build TV studios because of a specific series.

And I think supermeerkat does voice some legitimate concerns. With RTD overseeing three productions, it's almost impossible that he won't drop the ball some where. I think we've already seen some of that in Season 2 which was a bit inconsistent compared to Season 1 which showed evidence of focused energy. It almost seems that after the resounding success of Season 1, RTD entered "coast mode" and stopped giving Doctor Who the attention it deserves.

Well, first off, RTD isn't the only person on the production staff. He's the lead writer, yes. But the actual lead production staff is three people (and has been since the show first returned - Julie Gardner is one, forget the other at the moment, Collinson something I think), not to mention all the nitty gritty people who do the work on physically making it. He's just the writer, and the "guiding light". It's not like he's filming it, etc... I can see where you're coming from, but I don't think it's as drastic as you're making it out to be.

Additionally, I disagree with the coast mode remark. If anything, they went further. I suspect you're basing that off of "Fear Her", and "Love & Monsters"? Certainly can't be the four Cybermen stories, or some of the introspective pieces like "Fireplace". Fear Her is the only really "lazy" episode of the series, IMO, and even the greatest TV series of all time have low episodes from time to time. I seriously disagree with the coast remark - bigtime.

supermeerkat

08-18-2006, 12:17 PM

I also disagree with the "coast" comment. Personally, I think the quality of season two was marred by DT's own abilities, or rather the lack of them, I mean he's not a bad actor, but neither is he a great actor. For me, he doesn't seem to have that ability to rise above a mediocre script in the same that Troughton, Baker or Ecclestone have. Also, that ridiculous thing the Doctor had going with Rose, dragged it down as well.

What you guys make of this (http://www.who3d.com/home.htm)Doctor Who project?:mryuck:

Joe Siegler

08-18-2006, 12:40 PM

I also disagree with the "coast" comment. Personally, I think the quality of season two was marred by DT's own abilities, or rather the lack of them, I mean he's not a bad actor, but neither is he a great actor. For me, he doesn't seem to have that ability to rise above a mediocre script in the same that Troughton, Baker or Ecclestone have.

I disagree, I rather like Tennant. I didn't think I was going to, but by the time the series was over, I totally bought into him as the Doctor.

Mountain Man

08-18-2006, 12:54 PM

Additionally, I disagree with the coast mode remark. If anything, they went further. I suspect you're basing that off of "Fear Her", and "Love & Monsters"? Certainly can't be the four Cybermen stories, or some of the introspective pieces like "Fireplace". Fear Her is the only really "lazy" episode of the series, IMO, and even the greatest TV series of all time have low episodes from time to time. I seriously disagree with the coast remark - bigtime.
Well, the episodes you mentioned but also there just seemed to be a reduction of quality in the series in general. New Earth was no great kicks, Tooth and Claw they blew the budget on a CG werewolf and forgot to tell an actual story. Overall I was pleased with Season 2, but it definitely didn't hit it out of the park like Season 1. Maybe I'm wrong, but sure felt to me like they were coasting.

Though incidentally, Girl in the Fireplace rates as one of my top 10 favorites, so it wasn't all bad. :)

Joe Siegler

08-18-2006, 03:29 PM

Well, the episodes you mentioned but also there just seemed to be a reduction of quality in the series in general. New Earth was no great kicks, Tooth and Claw they blew the budget on a CG werewolf and forgot to tell an actual story. Overall I was pleased with Season 2, but it definitely didn't hit it out of the park like Season 1. Maybe I'm wrong, but sure felt to me like they were coasting.

You're wrong. I felt no drop whatsoever.

Mountain Man

08-18-2006, 03:37 PM

You're wrong. I felt no drop whatsoever.
Joe, it's just my opinion. Don't take it so personally.

Joe Siegler

08-18-2006, 05:44 PM

Maybe I'm wrong, but sure felt to me like they were coasting.

Dude, you set me up by saying that. :)

supermeerkat

08-18-2006, 06:09 PM

There's only one way to settle this: FIGHT!

Joe Siegler

08-18-2006, 08:49 PM

Nah, I can just edit his messages and make 'em look like he's supporting me if I really want to. Not much of a fight. :)

The point here is there's still new Doctor Who being produced, and that's always a good thing. :)

supermeerkat

08-19-2006, 07:37 AM

That is true. For all of my complaints with the new series, RTD deserves serious respect for bringing back Doctor Who. Also, perhaps this renewed interest will encourage the BBC to speed up their DVD release schedules for Doctor Who.

Oh, whilst watching the Tomb of the Cybermen last night, I came across some information about the TotC restoration project: it was amazing what they did and how they fixed up the film and sound.

Joe Siegler

08-19-2006, 03:39 PM

Spend some time reading around the website for the guys who do the DVD restoration. Lots of good stuff. The individual release articles usually (at least the more recent ones, not the earlier ones) have pictures taken during the DVD commentary recordings.

I know we all age and that, but some folks age better than others, as you'll see in the pictures:

http://www.restoration-team.co.uk/

Example: Peri, The Doctor, The Rani from the "Mark of the Rani" DVD commentary:

http://img93.imageshack.us/img93/6795/motrcommoi9.jpg

Or this one:

http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/1203/earthshockcommvg8.th.jpg (http://img152.imageshack.us/my.php?image=earthshockcommvg8.jpg)

Adric, Nyssa, Doctor #5, Teegan from the Earthshock commentary recording.

supermeerkat

08-19-2006, 06:38 PM

Mountain Man

08-20-2006, 08:17 AM

Peri
:love:

Joe Siegler

08-20-2006, 10:20 AM

I didn't recognise Peter Davidson first time I looked at that picture: he looks old - in my mind he still the young and handsome fellow I remember from years back. I really liked him- he was really calm and friendly in Doctor Who, and when I was a kid I wished he was my Dad or brother. Ahhhh, memories.
When The Christmas Invasion was being filmed, he dropped by and watched the proceedings. Apparently Davison's kids (so the story goes) said "Is that the TV show you worked on Daddy?", so his response to that was to phone up the office, and arrange for them to see it being made. This picture was taken during filming:

http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/8726/2docsis2rw3.jpg

Mind you, Peri still looks nice - her cleavage in PD's regenaration scene was the only thing I remember. I expect a few other fans (of a similar age) share the same opinion;)
I remember that. Some nice cleavage in The Two Doctors as well, plus a really nice booby outfit in Attack of the Cybermen too.

Still, breast remarks aside, the actress has aged nicely. Looks more hot now I think than she did back in the show's time.

supermeerkat

08-20-2006, 10:49 AM

Still, breast remarks aside, the actress has aged nicely. Looks more hot now I think than she did back in the show's time.

Oh yes!

Also, Mary Tam and Lalla Ward (Romana I and II, respectively) have both aged nicely. But I prefer Romana II - she looks so hot in City of Death.

Joe Siegler

08-20-2006, 12:53 PM

Also, Elizabeth Sladen still looks great. She's starting to show a bit of age, but still is pretty decent looking.

Mountain Man

08-21-2006, 11:08 AM

When The Christmas Invasion was being filmed, he dropped by and watched the proceedings. Apparently Davison's kids (so the story goes) said "Is that the TV show you worked on Daddy?", so his response to that was to phone up the office, and arrange for them to see it being made.
Apparently Noel Clarke (Mickey) is a huge Davison fan and was wandering around like a star struck fanboy that day. :D

supermeerkat

08-21-2006, 12:55 PM

Apparently the BBC has canned a Rose Tyler spinoff (http://www.theregister.com/2006/08/21/rose_tyler_canned/).

Good!

Joe Siegler

08-21-2006, 01:51 PM

Apparently the BBC has canned a Rose Tyler spinoff (http://www.theregister.com/2006/08/21/rose_tyler_canned/).

Good!

This is the first I'd ever heard of that. I wonder if that's a legit story, or someone making up something.

supermeerkat

08-21-2006, 03:19 PM

Here's the original BBC article (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/5271054.stm). If they're directly quoting RTD then it's probably legit.

(I'm not a big fan of Rose, in case you hadn't guessed).

Mountain Man

08-21-2006, 03:24 PM

supermeerkat

08-21-2006, 03:51 PM

As it is, some of the more vocal fans criticised Season 2 for being "The Rose Tyler Show" with the Doctor playing a supporting role.

And truth be told, I'm not much of a fan of Rose, either. Season 1 Rose was great. Season 2 Rose wore out her welcome very quickly. Her character was a custom fit for Doc9 and she just never really gelled with Doc10.

Exactly! CE's Doctor didn't let himself get pushed around by Rose, he was sometimes rude to her, but did care about her. CE's charisma kept the show focused on him, unlike DT who often seemed overwhelmed by events and Rose.

supermeerkat

08-21-2006, 03:52 PM

Why don't we just rename this thread to the official Joe3DR / Mountain Man / Supermeerkat / Dave-Ros discuss Doctor Who thread? :D

(Apologies to Dave-Ros:o )

Dave-ros

08-21-2006, 04:04 PM

Ahem :tinyted:

Mountain Man

08-21-2006, 08:19 PM

Exactly! CE's Doctor didn't let himself get pushed around by Rose, he was sometimes rude to her, but did care about her. CE's charisma kept the show focused on him, unlike DT who often seemed overwhelmed by events and Rose.
I think some of DT's best moments were when he was allowed to carry the show. Girl in the Fireplace was an outstanding story and, not coincidentally, virtually Rose-less. I thought The Idiot's Lantern improved marketedly after Rose was essentially removed from the story, and his one-on-one showdown with "satan" in The Satan Pit was one of his best performances of the season.

Hopefully with Rose out of the picture, DT will finally get a chance to carry the program like he is capable of.

Oh, and I approve of the name change for this thread. :D

supermeerkat

08-26-2006, 06:18 PM

Joe Siegler

08-27-2006, 01:38 PM

Just finished watching one disc of the "Lost in Time" DVD. The main feelings I got were:

1. It was amazing to see Patrick Troughton at the peak of his career: he has now become my favourite Doctor.
2. A sense of sadness that these fantastic stories are lost and will almost certainly never be found.

Well, Disc 1 was Hartnell stuff. :)

Anyway, it's my main frustration with the set, makes you mad you can't see all of it. I agree there completely.

Mister_Anderson

08-29-2006, 07:27 PM

Also, Elizabeth Sladen still looks great. She's starting to show a bit of age, but still is pretty decent looking.

I concur with the above said statement. And yes, Peri is looking hotter now that she did way back when...thank for sharing that pic!

I've only just recently finished a Doctor Who music video myself:
Back To The Start (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUUZyNv2RIE)

9th/10th/Rose - Spoilers from both seasons.

(If you don't like Coldplay, you might want to give it a miss. ;) )

Mountain Man

08-30-2006, 10:43 PM

Anyway, it's my main frustration with the set, makes you mad you can't see all of it.
Well, there's always that animation project, but sadly, you'll only have the voice performance of the actors. There's also the not insignificant chance that the quality of the animation could suck.

Joe Siegler

08-31-2006, 12:55 AM

Well, there's always that animation project, but sadly, you'll only have the voice performance of the actors. There's also the not insignificant chance that the quality of the animation could suck.

Well, it's being done by the people who did Scream of the Shalka, if I remember right. It's not like it's going to be Pixar quality here. :) But it will be acceptable, I'm sure.

supermeerkat

08-31-2006, 06:17 AM

The animation company is Cosgrove Hall, who are a world class animation studio (I used to live near to them) who have produced 20 years of (children's) animated programs - both stop motion and drawn. The quality may not be up there with Disney, but it is done by people who care about and love what they do.

On the subject on Doctor Who remakes, has any seen www.who3d.com (http://www.who3d.com/)?

Also, I have recently seen the remake of Captain Scarlet, and would love to see that level of technology (motion captured CGI) applied to Doctor Who remakes. Sadly it won't happen as the budget for 15 episodes ran into about 10 million GBP. Oh well, a geek can dream :)

Joe Siegler

08-31-2006, 12:26 PM

The animation company is Cosgrove Hall, who are a world class animation studio (I used to live near to them) who have produced 20 years of (children's) animated programs - both stop motion and drawn. The quality may not be up there with Disney, but it is done by people who care about and love what they do.

I'm actually really excited about this, because if it's pulled off well, it could be the key to actually getting a lot of the long dead stories out there again.

supermeerkat

08-31-2006, 12:50 PM

I'm actually really excited about this, because if it's pulled off well, it could be the key to actually getting a lot of the long dead stories out there again.

Me too! What stories would you like to see completed?

I'd like to see:

Fury from the Deep
The power of the daleks
The web of fear (my current favourite from "Lost in Time")
The Tenth planet

Joe Siegler

08-31-2006, 01:19 PM

Me too! What stories would you like to see completed?

I'd like to see:

Fury from the Deep
The power of the daleks
The web of fear (my current favourite from "Lost in Time")
The Tenth planet

Excluding the obvious "all of them"? :)

Hartnell:
The Daleks' Master Plan (w/ Mission to the Unknown)
Marco Polo
Galaxy 4

I actually DON'T want them to do Tenth Planet 4, I'd rather not have that episode reconstructed in an animation. I can't say why, and it's kind of dumb, I know.

Troughton:
The Power of the Daleks
The Evil of the Daleks
The Invasion (duh, that's the first release this way)
Fury from the Deep

supermeerkat

08-31-2006, 03:44 PM

Out of all those, if you could only have one, which would you have?

I'd have "The Web of Fear".

Joe Siegler

08-31-2006, 03:52 PM

Daleks Master Plan. It's the longest. Plus it's the Daleks, man! :D

Dave-ros

08-31-2006, 04:36 PM

The Power of the Daleks, with Joe's suggestion in second place :D

Will no-one nominate The Underwater Menace? :p

Joe Siegler

08-31-2006, 04:40 PM

Will no-one nominate The Underwater Menace? :p

:nelson:

supermeerkat

08-31-2006, 04:59 PM

http://media.urbandictionary.com/image/large/wtf-18374.jpg

supermeerkat

08-31-2006, 05:10 PM

Daleks Master Plan. It's the longest. Plus it's the Daleks, man! :D

At the moment, I'm all Dalek'd out: I've just watched "Day of the Daleks" and "Resurrection of the Daleks". The former being reasonable, and the latter being piss poor.

Problems I have with Resurrection:

1. The Doctor uses a gun.
2. How could the dalek's replicate Tegan before they caught her?
3. THe state of the Daleks: they look really thread bare, with bad paint jobs and uneven heads.
4. Davros. Again. Why has he been in every bloody Dalek story (in the classic series) after Genesis?
5. I really don't get the fuss about Lytton.
6. Why are the Daleks storing cannisters of the Movellan virus in 1980's London?
7. Why does the Emperor Dalek say "Without Davros we have no future" at episode 1, and then order that Davros be killed at the end of episode 4.

Joe Siegler

08-31-2006, 05:51 PM

At the moment, I'm all Dalek'd out: I've just watched "Day of the Daleks" and "Resurrection of the Daleks". The former being reasonable, and the latter being piss poor.

Ewww... Day of the Daleks is the WORST Dalek story there is. It had already existed without the Daleksd, and at the last minute the grafted them on top of the story. It shows.

Resurrection was great, I rather loved it. Yes it has some issues (what Who story doesn't), but I very much liked it.

Actually in McCoy's Dalek story, Davros was very much a small part, only showing up in the latter half of Episode 4 if I remember my timing right.

Mister_Anderson

09-01-2006, 02:02 AM

Season 3 Gossip! (http://www.darkhorizons.com/news06/060831f.php)

Looking forward to seeing what The Judoon might look like.... a clan of galactic Stormtroopers!

supermeerkat

09-01-2006, 06:42 AM

Season 3 Gossip! (http://www.darkhorizons.com/news06/060831f.php)

The Rani is returning. That could be interesting.

Joe Siegler

09-01-2006, 09:31 AM

The Rani is returning. That could be interesting.

That's been poo-pooed by the Who office. Still, if you use the Rani it means that not all the Time Lords are dead. It would be nice to see the Rani again, as that is a Time Lord you can bring back and not have a ton of baggage with (like The Master).

Bring the Master back and you probably need to explain what the heck happened to him in the McGann story (or not I suppose - you could ignore it), but the Rani is a lot less trouble to explain.

Dave-ros

09-01-2006, 12:32 PM

Day of the Daleks would be excellent if not for the pointless Daleks and their abysmal voices. Having said that, the bit where they come out the tunnel with Ogrons is cool :D

Resurrection of the Daleks: one of only two stories I have on DVD -- yes, it's silly, but it's still good fun to watch if you don't worry too much about things like plot coherence :p

Actually, the worst Dalek story might be The Chase -- why the hell are Daleks going "Err..." and interrupting each other? :doh:

And yes, Joe, your memory is correct re Remembrance -- though technically Davros was in episode 3, we just didn't know it was him :p

supermeerkat

09-04-2006, 05:45 PM

Just found a great quote at gallifreyone.com (http://www.gallifreyone.com/review.php?id=5v) which perfectly sums up Adric:

..and Adric is used well here again, although his impressive loyalty to and concern for the Doctor are increasingly undermined by Matthew Waterhouse’s limited supply of facial expressions.

Geeky I know, but funny :D .

Joe Siegler

09-05-2006, 10:06 AM

Funny indeed. :D

Joe Siegler

09-06-2006, 11:03 AM

Good article on the forthcoming Invasion DVD, which is the first to use animation to replace lost episodes.

http://www.purpleville.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/rtwebsite/Invasion.htm

Also has a current pic of Frasier Hines & Wendy Padbury.

Dave-ros

09-06-2006, 01:36 PM

It's amazing all the stuff that goes into restoring these stories -- all the hard work and computer time cleaning up the old tapes... and I see Cosgrove Hall took a bit of artistic licence and had to be reminded to keep it close to the original -- hopefully they'll have Vaughn/Big Brother and the other tweaks as extras? And will they also have the photonovel on the disc? (Mind you, might be hard to get good enough quality out of the telesnaps!)

Once again, I wish they'd sell Doctor Who DVDs for the same price as movies, instead of making me fork out £20 or possibly, just possibly, £19! (It's like they know it's so popular that they want to milk it for all it's worth!)

Joe Siegler

09-06-2006, 02:40 PM

Generally they're only that much if they're the double discs. Single discs tend to be cheaper. I just got The Web Planet today, and it was US $16, which is what, about 8 or 9 pounds, I think?

Dave-ros

09-06-2006, 03:08 PM

More like a tenner, but still cheap... damn your healthy economy!!!!
:ted:
I still own precisely two Doctor Who DVDs, and that can't be allowed to go on. Do any of my fellow Limeys know somewhere that does them cheaper? Or should I get them from the USA? (I spit on DVD regions, ptui! :censored:)

supermeerkat

09-06-2006, 03:14 PM

When are the rumoured box sets (one per Doctor) going to be released, is what I want to know?

Joe Siegler

09-06-2006, 03:36 PM

When are the rumoured box sets (one per Doctor) going to be released, is what I want to know?

Never heard about that, and I read a lot of Doctor Who news online. Got a link?

supermeerkat

09-06-2006, 04:09 PM

Sorry Joe :o

That was a bit of hopeless fantasy on my part. I was wondering if I tossed the idea into the ring, someone might know something about it. I'd sell Mrs Supermeerkat to get my hands on a Classic Doctor Who box set.

Joe Siegler

09-06-2006, 04:11 PM

The only season box set that exists from the classic series is Tom Baker's 5th, Season 16's "A Key to Time", but I believe only in the US - I don't think it's actually been released in R2.

I rather like it piecemeal the way it is - that way I can pick and choose which ones I actually want.

supermeerkat

09-06-2006, 04:14 PM

That's very true. I'm rather frustrated though at the slow DVD release rate: it seems all the ones I want aren't available. The Brain of Morbius being an example.

Joe Siegler

09-06-2006, 04:22 PM

That's very true. I'm rather frustrated though at the slow DVD release rate: it seems all the ones I want aren't available. The Brain of Morbius being an example.

For me it's Logopolis, but I read there's a set coming out that has Keeper of Traken / Logopolis / Castrovalva in the same box. That I'll be all over.

For me, Logopolis is Tom Baker's best story.

Joe Siegler

09-14-2006, 09:41 AM

A funny picture. :)

Joe Siegler

09-14-2006, 09:44 AM

There was a 13 minute video interview with RTD linked from the Official BBC Dr Who website yesterday, and I jotted down some notes listening to it aout Series 3. No huge spoilers here, in fact, the majority of this stuff has been covered already, but it's nice to get some official confirmations and denials:

No Rose in Runaway Bride (RTD calls it the "First episode w/o Rose", and "scary" for the production team because of that.)

Runaway Bride is "different", like no other Doctor Who

Three Part Christmas Story thing is bogus, one 60 minute episode.

Montage of bits from Series 3 at end of Christmas Episode.

"Very Slight" reference to that character that Freema played in the two parter season ending bit in Ep 1 of new series vs "Martha Jones"

RTD refused to talk about story about Tennant leaving after "one more series" - he was asked about Tennant leaving after Series 4, not Series 3, so I'm unclear what his actual contract status is.

A classic series monster will be in Series 3, RTD said "Ice Warriors", but it was unclear as to whether the Ice Warriors was said monster, or there's another beisdes that.

No "Son of Doctor Who" stuff is happening, called it "Tabloid stuff".

There will be a "Bad Wolf / Torchwood" kind of running thing in series 3, but not as big as the others.

There will be a "Huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge" finale (RTD's words)

Face of Boe's message will probably going to be in new series, and is "four words long"

Bringing back the Rani would be "Fannish - I think most people would go WHAT?"

His favorite new episode so far is the Shakespeare episode (Ep 2)

The end of series 3 is apparently a transplanted idea for what RTD originally wanted for the end of "The Satan Pit", but it's not about Satan.

No Time War.

Capt Jack is back for "multiple episodes".

There will be no returns to the parallel universe where Rose is.. "Did you see that ending? It was a GOODBYE".

RTD is writing 6 episodes of new series (including Xmas one)

Mountain Man

09-14-2006, 10:22 AM

There will be no returns to the parallel universe where Rose is.. "Did you see that ending? It was a GOODBYE".
This is great news. I had some concerns that RTD would try returning to that well.

The rest of his comments were of the typical vague variety that people in his position use to make it seem like they're telling you something when they're really not.

Jigen

09-14-2006, 10:42 AM

Wow, there's an official Doctor Who thread here? Absolutely cool, been a fan of the show for about twenty-one years now. Grew up watching Tom Baker on PBS, a lot of fond childhood memories associated with the good Doctor.

Dave-ros

09-14-2006, 11:43 AM

@Joe's picture: ah yes, because Baker wouldn't go, they got his waxwork instead :p

Jigen, did you see when that Max Headroom-esque character broke in on a Doctor Who episode? (Linkage (http://youtube.com/watch?v=HPybv_pzK_s))

Joe Siegler

09-14-2006, 11:44 AM

The rest of his comments were of the typical vague variety that people in his position use to make it seem like they're telling you something when they're really not.

Well, I did say this... :)

No huge spoilers here, in fact, the majority of this stuff has been covered already

Joe Siegler

09-14-2006, 01:18 PM

Info on the Sarah Jane spinoff, now labeled "The Sarah Jane Adventures":

http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/news/cult/news/drwho/2006/09/14/36380.shtml

http://www.bbc.co.uk/pressoffice/pressreleases/stories/2006/09_september/14/sarah.shtml

Mountain Man

09-14-2006, 02:26 PM

@Joe's picture: ah yes, because Baker wouldn't go, they got his waxwork instead :p
In The Tom Baker Years video, he says he no longer remembers why he refused to participate in The Five Doctors and that he now regrets it.

Dave-ros

09-14-2006, 02:35 PM

I knew he'd begun to regret it, but I didn't know he'd forgotten the reason -- I believe in Doctor Who: A Celebration (the 20th anniversary book) he was quoted as saying "wild horses couldn't drag me back" to the show... was he afraid of being typecast?

Mountain Man

09-14-2006, 03:12 PM

He definitely remembers wanting to disassociate himself from the program, but he doesn't really recall why he felt so strongly about it at the time, or at least that was the impression I got. It has been several years since I watched the video.

Joe Siegler

09-14-2006, 03:56 PM

In The Tom Baker Years video, he says he no longer remembers why he refused to participate in The Five Doctors and that he now regrets it.

Oh he knows. He's lying if he said he doesn't. He quite clearly stated at the time he felt not enough time had passed from his leaving the show and being asked to come back. He at the time was trying to disassociate himself from the show.

I do believe him in saying that he now regrets the decision, but I don't buy at all he doesn't remember why.

supermeerkat

09-14-2006, 04:41 PM

TB was really full of himself (I gather): the public loved him, but the film crew and producers hated the sight of him by the end of his reign. He did ham it up somewhat - have you ever seen City of Death?

Joe Siegler

09-17-2006, 02:04 AM

New recon of the Myth Makers is out. Check it out:

http://www.recons.com/recons/lc26.htm

If you've never heard of the reconstructions, spend some time looking around this site, they do some seriously good work.

K T Ong

09-17-2006, 10:05 AM

I always find something chilling about the Dr Who theme music. Something that makes you feel uneasy, like it's creeping up your spine...

The music of Blake's Seven is so much more heroic and uplifting by comparison...

DOSGuy

09-18-2006, 01:35 AM

I wish I had joined this discussion earlier. Series 2 starts in Canada on October 9, so I'm a bit behind some of you. I enjoyed Series 1 very much, other than being too Earthcentric.

When I started watching Doctor Who, from the fourth through seventh doctors, every serial started on a new world, introducing people who had different philosophies, lifestyles and experiences than we do. Earth was rarely shown, and it was something big if it was, like a Dalek invasion. Every episode of the new series took place on Earth or in orbit of Earth, and almost always in London. The lack of variety is rather boring.

Eccleston made a great Doctor. He clearly isn't from around here. He wants Rose to think about things from a new perspective, introducing her to his alien morality (if not alien worlds). He's a daredevil, like his predecessors, always cheating death. Prior incarnations weren't very excitable, but Eccleston's enthusiasm is contagious. Everything is "fantastic!"

I don't care for the new TARDIS. It's dark and unfinished and seems like it's about to fall apart. It doesn't seem very futuristic. The original TARDIS looked advanced and impressive. It was clearly built by people who were considerably more technologically advanced than we are.

Declaring all Time Lords dead seemed like an unnecessary and limiting plot device. Every hero needs a nemesis, and I feel that it will be necessary to explain how The Master survived at a later date. I find it hard to believe that The Doctor is capable of wiping out his entire race, especially when he wasn't able to repeat the feat and destroy Earth in the finale. How the Daleks became powerful enough to pose a threat to the Time Lords also requires some imagination, as they were fragmented in the original run and were declared to no longer be a threat by Gallifrey.

Captain Jack was a fun companion. The Doctor's companions have typically been minor characters to help develop the plot by giving the Doctor someone to rescue or allow the story to develop in two or more threads. Far from being a subordinate, Captain Jack is a fellow time traveller and has technology that rivals the Doctor's. He even mocks the sonic screwdriver. Rose is certainly the first companion to be equally important to the stories, but she isn't the Doctor's equal. Captain Jack is the first companion to act as an equal, rather than a member of the Doctor's crew, and the first to rival the Doctor in time travelling experience and technological expertise.

The ending of the finale of Series 1 was brilliant. Following a battle with the Daleks, who were not destroyed by the Time Wars, the Doctor is forced to regenerate, and Captain Jack is left behind. It seemed to be building up to something bigger than had ever previously been shown in the series. Between regeneration and abandoning Captain Jack, it's the lowest point for the Doctor. Much like The Empire Strikes Back, the lowest point for the heroes is always the best. Why is Jack left behind? Something bad must be about to go down!

But alas, that was false hope. The Christmas Special was shown in Canada on December 26 and was the worst episode yet. Rose started well by being shocked and afraid of the regeneration and the uncertainty it created, not to mention her guilt for "killing" the previous incarnation. The dramatic potential was ruined when one of the writers apparently allowed one his children to write the episode, in which the leader of an army of aliens agrees to let the fate of the Earth be decided by a sword fight with the Doctor. That makes about as much sense as Hitler agreeing to decide World War II by a hand of poker with Winston Churchill, or a cricket match with the royal family. Despite their superior numbers and the considerable expense of bringing an invasion force all the way to Earth, the alien leader keeps his word and the Earth is saved. Preschoolers everywhere cheered, while everyone over the age of 8 looked around the room to see if anyone else noticed how ridiculous it was and reconsidered their devotion to the series.

Despite the decidedly weak first episode with the tenth Doctor, made all the more disappointing in contrast to the excellent momentum that Series 1 ended with, I'm looking forward to Series 2. I wish Eccleston hadn't left the show, but perhaps getting a new Doctor will increase the odds of an episode featuring multiple incarnations. I would love to see Sylvester McCoy teamed up with either of the new Doctors. Either pair would make a great odd couple.

supermeerkat

09-18-2006, 06:43 AM

I would love to see Sylvester McCoy teamed up with either of the new Doctors. Either pair would make a great odd couple.

RTD is totally against that. Which is a shame, as I'd love to see CE, PM and SM together in a three doctors style story.

I don't care much for DT, as I don't think he has the skills to pull off Doctor Who, and he just comes across as lightweight.

I do agree with your comment about killing the Timelords off, it does seem a little harsh, and limiting of the Doctor Who mythos. However, I don't think they'll be killed off for too long, as their re-introduction would open up a rich new seam of stories.

Mountain Man

09-18-2006, 09:35 AM

I don't care much for DT, as I don't think he has the skills to pull off Doctor Who, and he just comes across as lightweight.
I disagree. When DT was given material he could really sink his teeth into, I thought he was terrific. His problem was that he was saddled with some lackluster stories that paid an inordinate amount attention to the Rose character which often pushed the Doctor into the background. Here's hoping that his character will get the attention he deserves in Season 3.

Dave-ros

09-18-2006, 12:57 PM

Tenant ~= McGann > Ecclestone, and anyone who disagrees with me sucks :tinyted: :p

Also, the Time Lords being killed off -- does that mean throughout time and space, rather than just from, say, 2001 onwards Gallifrey doesn't exist? I suppose this is one of those aspects the makers try to avoid (like how every time the Doctor and the Master meet is sequential for both, rather than the Doctor meeting an earlier Master etc.), but it would explain why so many things are a bit different -- the Universe itself is different!

Bit like that novel The Female Man -- time-travelling creates parallel universes... (do NOT read that book, it's awful!! :mryuck:)

DOSGuy

09-18-2006, 11:53 PM

I had often wondered if the Doctor might bump into another Time Lord for whom the Time Wars hadn't happened yet.

supermeerkat

09-19-2006, 02:08 AM

No, Dave-ros u = teh suck! :D

Mountain Man

09-19-2006, 07:32 AM

I had often wondered if the Doctor might bump into another Time Lord for whom the Time Wars hadn't happened yet.
Probably not. I believe it was established in the classic series that Timelords were prevented from traveling through time in relation to Gallifrey. In other words, to every Timelord, Gallifrey was always "the present" (which might also explain why the Doctor and the Master always met in sequential order, since their TARDIS's were in the same "time zone", so to speak).

Of course, the Time War has never really been explained, and the fact that the Daleks appear to have survived it easily enough certainly opens up the possibility that at least some of the Timelords did as well.

Joe Siegler

09-19-2006, 11:10 AM

Joe Siegler

09-19-2006, 12:30 PM

:woot:

My all time favorite Doctor 4 story is finally being released on DVD (Logopolis). I am so all over this set when it's released.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/news/cult/news/drwho/2006/09/19/36478.shtml

http://www.purpleville.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/rtwebsite/ReturnOfTheMaster.htm

:woot:

DOSGuy

09-20-2006, 02:34 AM

Probably not. I believe it was established in the classic series that Timelords were prevented from traveling through time in relation to Gallifrey. In other words, to every Timelord, Gallifrey was always "the present" (which might also explain why the Doctor and the Master always met in sequential order, since their TARDIS's were in the same "time zone", so to speak).

I didn't mean that it would be on Gallifrey. If Time Lord X went to London on August 3, 1873 before returning to Gallifrey for the Time Wars, and Doctor Who decided to go to London on August 3, 1873, he could bump into Time Lord X by chance. Presumably there were a lot of Time Lords who travelled to a lot of worlds at a lot of different times, so it's possible that the Doctor might end up in the same place at the same time as one of the other Time Lords.

With regard to the Earthcentric stories, I agree that budget is probably a consideration. Doctor Who fans accepted the low budget sets and worlds in the original series, but the BBC probably believes that modern viewers wouldn't be as forgiving, so they don't want to show other worlds unless they can be convincing as worlds other than Earth. That can't be the whole reason, though. They have modern special effects, and Firefly could film a desert and tell you that it was a moon. The worlds don't have to be completely alien.

I think the real reason is that they're taking the show in a different direction. It was intended to be more character driven, introducing Rose not merely as an equally important character as the Doctor, but giving her a mother and a boyfriend and a dead father and a history. It's a bit of a space soap opera now. The show is tied to London to appeal to British people and make the situations more familiar. There's less science fiction and more Coronation Street now.

Don't get me wrong; I don't have a problem with character driven shows. I love Firefly, and the relationships between the characters was one of the best elements of the show. Those relationships didn't detract from the science fiction, or the cowboy western theme, or the action theme, or the comedy. It made the show more compelling, and it was done really well. It's done reasonably well on Doctor Who as well (though Rose's mom is a caricature), but I'm getting bored of seeing England every show. At least on Firefly, every show they went to a different world. The Battle of Britain, Charles Dickens, and I've heard something about Shakespeare (no spoilers please). Next year perhaps Queen Victoria, King Richard the Lionheart, Henry VIII, and a special guest appearance by Margaret Thatcher? There's more to the universe than just London, and I wish they would show it.