April fools???

[3D Master]

Duoae said:

March 8, 2005
Some more signs of active Prey development. Why else would 3D Realms pay up to $850,000 to buy the "prey.com" domain in the last year?




Interesting....

Record expires on 01-Mar-2014
Record created on 28-Apr-2004
Database last updated on 23-Dec-2004

Correspondingly:
Trademark application was allowed in april too...

2004-04-13 - Notice of allowance - mailed




Going to www.prey.com (http://www.prey.com), yields this:


Network Solutions: this site is under construction and coming soon.



Could mean something, could mean nothing.

[SyntaxN]

Anyway, something big is coming, but what is, if the new game [X] (Prey?) is just another "placeholder" until DNF comes out!
I don´t think that 3dr is stupid enough to release 2 shooters with their names on the boxes in the same time!
So, one of the games must be released earlier, which one....

[Kristian Joensen]

This (http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=156870&page=0&fpart=1&vc=1) is a interesting thread.

Notice that 3DR did not deny what was said in there.

[tony]

Duoae said:

tony said:
In my opinion, the whole appeal to Prey was its use of portals, releasing the game using the Doom3 engine wouldnt seem all that right (unless it can do the same things). Just throwing out Prey on a different engine would seem like a desperate attempt to use an already hyped IP to gain some extra money; 3DR wouldnt do something like that. I would be very surprized if its Prey.

Like has been said before, it will either be DNF or the new IP. Thats my take on it, at least.




That's what i think about the 3rd party development. It's not prey - however this "announcement" could be....




I doubt that. Didnt George say one of the biggest mistakes, if not the biggest, was announcing DNF too early? They will in no way make the same mistake twice. If work on Prey resumes, we wont hear anything about it until it is near completion.

[Lotan]

March 8, 2005
Some more signs of active Prey development. Why else would 3D Realms pay up to $850,000 to buy the "prey.com" domain in the last year?




850 *thousand* bucks? http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[Kristian Joensen]

Joe has stated that the 850,000$ remark is way off.

[Lotan]

3D Master said:

Network Solutions: this site is under construction and coming soon.







"This site is under construction and coming when it's done" http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hhg.gif

[MegaMustaine]

Kristian Joensen said:
This (http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=156870&page=0&fpart=1&vc=1) is a interesting thread.

Notice that 3DR did not deny what was said in there.



Joe denied it, said it was on hold.

[Duoae]

tony said:
I doubt that. Didnt George say one of the biggest mistakes, if not the biggest, was announcing DNF too early? They will in no way make the same mistake twice. If work on Prey resumes, we wont hear anything about it until it is near completion.



If all the "hard coding" was already done for Prey by Corrine and others back in the late '90's, then it's possible that 3DR could just sit that into the UnrealDuke engine....... and then that would be a focus on content and level creation - which again could have been already finalised "back in the day". In fact, the whole project could be preliminarily finished and sitting on a HDD somewhere in the office archives, waiting for an engine update and "Emotioneering" storyline techniques. I mean, wasn't the reason Prey didn't get released because of the tech and developer "issuses"? I presume that the enhanced unreal engine and today's hardware would solve the problems faced before....

[EDIT]


Joe denied it, said it was on hold.




Actually, he said, once again - cunningly -
"Our formal stance on Prey has not changed - it's on hold, and a decision on it's fate is not planned to be made until after DNF is done and over with."

As for the $850,000? I'm not really sure how much these things cost. However, it is registered for a long time. Also, i don't know who (if anyone) owned it before 3DR did.
As for that network solutions page in development - they are just the people who *Host* it.... I think that it is a standard "empty" page for any domain that is registered but not redirecting to a hosted IP.....

[Kristian Joensen]

MegaMustaine said:

Kristian Joensen said:
This (http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=156870&page=0&fpart=1&vc=1) is a interesting thread.

Notice that 3DR did not deny what was said in there.



Joe denied it, said it was on hold.



No, he said the official stand was the it was on hold.

Plus, the game mentioned in their could be something other than Prey, it did have another name.

My theory now is:

Human Head Studios is currently developing two games one using the Doom 3 engine another using a brand new engine developed by 3D Realms.

That engine combines some ot the engine modifications that 3D Realms have added to the Unreal engine(But obviously no Epic code) and some old Prey code.

That would be consitent with the rumor in the Prey Lives ? thread that unlike Max Payne this games development was started over at 3D Realms.

[SyntaxN]

Human Head Studios is currently developing two games one using the Doom 3 engine another using a brand new engine developed by 3D Realms.

That engine combines some ot the engien modifications that 3D Realms have added to the Unreal engine and some old Prey code.


Possible, but they would be stupid if they would show their "über engine" game and DNF in the same time!

[KaiserSoze]

looking more and more like it's "prey".

[Kristian Joensen]

I totaly disagree I would say that it is 100% new IP wich has never been under development before, Prey has been in development before.

[KaiserSoze]

Kristian Joensen said:
I totaly disagree I would say that it is 100% new IP wich has never been under development before, Prey has been in development before.



my good man, i beg to differ.

prey *is* a new i.p. how can it not be new when a product has never shipped?

scott was right when he said the next 12 months would be busy......from my estimates we're gonna get rocked with 2 huge unveilings this year. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Kristian Joensen]

Oh, I agree Prey would be a new IP.

I just don't think they will be reviving any of their old projects this time around.

[Duoae]

I don't think that they would make a *new* engine. I think that ever since Build and Prey they have just used modified engines. Many developers - including 3DR - have admitted that by cutting out core engine development costs and time by using other developer's engines is the future of game development.

IMO I would imagine that the "modular" structure of the unreal engine would be ideal for slotting in Prey code (a conclusion Kristian also came to). However, i do not think that 3DR would spend the time or money on financing a completely new engine when there is no need for it.

Thinking back on Prey, it was a new engine.... so i suppose that they could just update it - like Kristian said - add in the shaders and other graphically "sparkly" things that 3DR have added into the UnrealDuke engine...

[EDIT]

I would have to disagree with *both?* of you there. I do not consider Prey to be a new IP. It is old IP.... Intellectual Property. It may be considered as a new game, but it is old IP. That is one of the reasons that i think there are 3 games to look forward to....

[Emultra]

The next game will be called Kaiser Soze, and will revolve around guessing what the second-next game will be.

The winner will be awarded by finding out what the third-next game will be.

[tony]

Duoae said:

tony said:
I doubt that. Didnt George say one of the biggest mistakes, if not the biggest, was announcing DNF too early? They will in no way make the same mistake twice. If work on Prey resumes, we wont hear anything about it until it is near completion.



If all the "hard coding" was already done for Prey by Corrine and others back in the late '90's, then it's possible that 3DR could just sit that into the UnrealDuke engine....... and then that would be a focus on content and level creation - which again could have been already finalised "back in the day". In fact, the whole project could be preliminarily finished and sitting on a HDD somewhere in the office archives, waiting for an engine update and "Emotioneering" storyline techniques. I mean, wasn't the reason Prey didn't get released because of the tech and developer "issuses"? I presume that the enhanced unreal engine and today's hardware would solve the problems faced before....



With the level design and such I've seen with Prey so far, in the few videos that have surfaced, the complexity in level design is no-where near competetive with games comming out. Same with artwork/models. *All* the art in the game will need to be re-done. And artwork done in the late 90s will be approached from the idea of late 90s tech. I can gurantee you than not a single texutre will be carried over. Art, coupled with the engine tech that will need to be done, will take a significant amount of time. However, 3DR may be able to use a majority of the rendering code they made for DNF in Prey, and save some time.

You also have to remember that 3DR has stated numerous times that they are only working on ONE in-house title, and that they are not going to work on the next title until they've finished the patches and whatnot for DNF. (But the art team could start on the new game) They are not going to churn out a high-quality game in a small amount of time, especially concidering the size of the company and their stance on quality.

Will the 3DRealms game after DNF be Prey? Possibly. Will this announcement be? No.

[Kristian Joensen]

Exactly basicly rip out all of the Epic code, so that they won't have to license the Unreal engine yet again, while they at the same time will be able to license the engine to others.

DNF's engine is what 90% 3D Realms code and 10% Epic code.

They would just have to write 10% of the engine to get a brand new engine wich they can license as their own engine.

Some of those 10% could be taken from Prey, and voila you have a new engine in no time.

[Duoae]

Emultra said:
The next game will be called Kaiser Soze, and will revolve around guessing what the second-next game will be.

The winner will be awarded by finding out what the third-next game will be.



Will Joe be the final boss? Sitting in his Deciding chair of Doom!!?

http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[KaiserSoze]

Duoae said:

Emultra said:
The next game will be called Kaiser Soze, and will revolve around guessing what the second-next game will be.

The winner will be awarded by finding out what the third-next game will be.



Will Joe be the final boss? Sitting in his Deciding chair of Doom!!?

http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif



haha!

"prey" "bombshell" and "dnf"? http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif

[Emultra]

Duoae said:
Will Joe be the final boss? Sitting in his Deciding chair of Doom!!?
http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif



Yes, and then comes a fearful encounter in the secret level with Greg Malone and Todd Replogle in combined arms.

[Viper Knight]

It has to be something new or DNF.

Bombshell could be regarded as new so it might be that.

So, Bombshell or DNF?

[Duoae]

tony said:
With the level design and such I've seen with Prey so far, in the few videos that have surfaced, the complexity in level design is no-where near competetive with games comming out. Same with artwork/models. *All* the art in the game will need to be re-done. And artwork done in the late 90s will be approached from the idea of late 90s tech. I can gurantee you than not a single texutre will be carried over. Art, coupled with the engine tech that will need to be done, will take a significant amount of time.



As for artwork and models.... haven't 3DR just out-sourced a whole load of "high quality" work to Liquid development to help them do things "faster"? I agree about all this though. What i meant was that the engine might be cut-and-paste ready to go. I also meant that the level design and storyline might be finalised and waiting to be updated with the new engine editor (ie ported) etc..... like that classic doom mod for Doom on the Doom 3 engine....

[Emultra]

Do a D3D remake in DNF.


In fact, include it in the Collector's Edition.

[Duoae]

I think 3DR already said that they wouldn't...... except maybe for a multiplayer map or something. I think someone said that Hollywood Holocaust was a MP map in the 1998 or 2001 DNF..... i don't have that good a memory though....

[lonestar]

if you look at domainregister it shows:

Updated Date: 23-dec-2004
Creation Date: 28-feb-1996
Expiration Date: 01-mar-2014

this link to the 3drealms thread above has the quotes of this gamestar article i mentioned. joe said there that prey isn't in development and "being on hold" until dnf is done. but this could have easily changed over time.

i don't think it would be too early in development to announce it very soon, if it's based on an already existing engine like the doom3 engine and using old story and concept plans from the early prey days.

[3D Master]

I don't think it's Prey. I don't see the point. Prey had the most advanced engine ever back then; some of it only returns now with the newest game engines; even Unreal3 tech, from what I gathered. The portal technology no one has yet been able to reproduce. I think they'll seriously pur their effort into Prey once they're done with DNF. I guess it'll be the next big innovation unless someone else things of recreating something similar beforehand, but Unreal3 doesn't have anything similar, certainly not source or Doom3, so they should be safe on that front.

On the other hand, didn't IDSoftware say something about already seen before? Ah! Dang it.

As for no self-created engine, I don't know when George said that, but he's also said he thinks if they had just built their own engine for DNF with everything they needed from the beginning they would have finished it by now; mostly because they ended up practically creating their own engine for DNF to get it to do what they wanted to do anyway.

It seems that 3D Realms' aspirations are simply several steps beyond all the other games companies, and nothing they create can handle what 3D Realms wants it to handle.

The dang thing is, that if Prey as hinted at by IDSoftware is done on the Doom3 engine, it seems that they taken a step back; from what I gathered the engine isn't geared toward easy modifying it; meaning building in portal technology seems a no-no. And portal technolgoy is an amazing thing to think up and use in a game - they came up with an innovation about a decade and a half before its time, if not more (the only way to find out would be for 3D Realms not to make it and wait till someone else does the same thing). ID might just be wrong, they are working on two more games, and the other game and Prey (the one people know before) just isn't the game produced in the Doom3 engine...

On the other hand, Bombshell is something people would know and recognize...

AAH! I guess we'll just have to wait and see!

[The Count]

can`t stop clicking the refresh-button...
you guys are incredible http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif
awesome thrilling thread ! http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

by the way: I don`t think Prey is coming up. too early

[Kristian Joensen]

3D Master said:
As for no self-created engine, I don't know when George said that, but he's also said he thinks if they had just built their own engine for DNF with everything they needed from the beginning they would have finished it by now; mostly because they ended up practically creating their own engine for DNF to get it to do what they wanted to do



What you say here supports my theory that Human Head is using a engine 3D Realms made.

They simply took out all the Epic in the DNF engine and started to customize it form there.

They would have to write their own editor but there is Preditor, it maybe could be reused.

They would have to write their own netcode, they could either wirte it from scrafth or reuse the Prey netcode.

That is basicly it, maybe they would have to write their own scripiting language or they could use the one they had in the Quake 2 version of DNF.

Alternative the game code could be wirtten as a dll.

[Duoae]

Just found this (http://www.planetquake.com/qweek/009.htm)

Crazy stuff..... is any of it real? And what happened to that game?

[EDIT] This would support the Human Head updated Preditor engine thoughts......

[Kristian Joensen]

I think Trinity is what became Quake 3 Arena.

I also think that article is some kind of prank or joke.

[SyntaxN]

The "bombshell" thing is crap imo, won´t fit with the modern game market!
When I think about the whole situation it *must* be DNF, Joe said "our next game", not Human Heads or xy´s next game, their next thing! And the next thing from 3dr is DNF wtf!!!!

[3D Master]

Duoae said:
Just found this (http://www.planetquake.com/qweek/009.htm)

Crazy stuff..... is any of it real? And what happened to that game?

[EDIT] This would support the Human Head updated Preditor engine thoughts......



That's a joke.

[Kristian Joensen]

3D Realms has previously said that they consider Max Payne to be both a Remedy game and a 3D Realms game.

Also, Joe has previously talked about their "next game" as something different to DNF.

[lonestar]

also interesting:
scott miller:

No one announced anything. Since I wrote the quotes used in that Gamasutra article, six months ago, we've cancelled one project, and going back a year ago, another big external project was cancelled for the PS2. The stuff George wrote is several years old, I believe, published in a book that came out in 1999. This stuff happens all the time. It's damn well funny to see it pop up now as if it was news. ;-)



http://www.shacknews.com/ja.zz?id=3242519

and steve from shack wrote:

What does this mean? It means it was a non-story as Scott said. There is no telling what the heck they are talking about, or if the plan to announce something at E3 is still the plan. If it were to be anything I would guess that the Prey project with HumanHead would be the one but you never know. Seems smart to me, 3DR continues to put all their focus on developing Duke4, Scott sells off/makes a deal on the Prey property with another company looking for a project. Doesnt affect Duke4 development, makes 3DR more money.



this still applies!

[3D Master]

SyntaxN said:
The "bombshell" thing is crap imo, won´t fit with the modern game market!
When I think about the whole situation it *must* be DNF, Joe said "our next game", not Human Heads or xy´s next game, their next thing! And the next thing from 3dr is DNF wtf!!!!



Uh... ever heard of Tomb Raider? Blood Rayne? Etc. etc.?

Heh, first time I guess we get to save 'male' babes.

[Viper Knight]

This is my last post in this thread.

I am 99.99% sure the game that will be unveiled soon will be Bombshell.

I don't care if I'm wrong or new information shows up pointing against it. I am sticking with it and locking it in! http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

BOMBSHELL.

http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/lock.gif

[tony]

Duoae said:
As for artwork and models.... haven't 3DR just out-sourced a whole load of "high quality" work to Liquid development to help them do things "faster"? I agree about all this though. What i meant was that the engine might be cut-and-paste ready to go. I also meant that the level design and storyline might be finalised and waiting to be updated with the new engine editor (ie ported) etc..... like that classic doom mod for Doom on the Doom 3 engine....



The classic Doom mod looks like levels created from scratch with the look/feel of Doom, not levels that have just been "ported over." I would imagine modifying existing levels will take more time than recreating them from scratch.

I would also bet that 3DR outsourced the models to Liquid Development for NPC work. Parts of DNF being based in Las Vegas, there will be a potential for there being a TON of NPCs walking around, and oursourcing this work saved them a lot of time.

[KaiserSoze]

charlie gave us another nugget/hint:


There is one piece of information that you guys keep missing entirely that would make everything make sense.



hmm. would it be that old take 2 blurb about them contacting 3dr and saying the game would be finished up hopefully by first quarter 2005? i don't know man. i think they still have a ways to go yet on dnf.

this is maddening but fun. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

anyone know what this piece of info is?

[KaiserSoze]

Viper Knight said:
This is my last post in this thread.

I am 99.99% sure the game that will be unveiled soon will be Bombshell.



problem is when you think about it, neither bombshell or prey fit into "there's enough info out there to probably guess what it is".

i really don't think there's that much "new" information on either recently that should lead us to believe it's either one. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[Duoae]

Kristian Joensen said:
I think Trinity is what became Quake 3 Arena.

I also think that article is some kind of prank or joke.



Well, you see i think that's funny, because. When i look back at the Prey videos, the whole engine "yells" modified quake engine. Now, i know that quake 1 led to q2 and q2 led to q3..... they are direct "engine decendants". Prey is/was supposed to have it's own engine.... however, the source engine is heavily based on quake technology - but is still called a new engine. 3DR had already liscenced the quake engine before Prey was shown... is it possible that Preditor was the modified quake engine? And is it also possible that Carmack was going to re-liscence the engine back for a future project?

Also, more on "Trinity": http://toyscollectibles.allinfo-about.com/profiles/2003e3activision.htm Halfway down the page...

Also (http://www.gamearena.com.au/games/title/pc_trinity/index.php)



Building on an enhanced version of id Software’s Quake III Team Arena™ game engine



another (http://www.planetquake.com/features/articles/editorials/rebuttal.shtml) First paragraph...

[tony]

3D Master said:

Duoae said:
Just found this (http://www.planetquake.com/qweek/009.htm)

Crazy stuff..... is any of it real? And what happened to that game?

[EDIT] This would support the Human Head updated Preditor engine thoughts......



That's a joke.



Look at the upper left corner, it was also posted in 1997 :P

[SyntaxN]

Uh... ever heard of Tomb Raider? Blood Rayne? Etc. etc.?

Heh, first time I guess we get to save 'male' babes.



yes, but people like bloodrayne because it´s, yeah, bloody (http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif) and Tomb Raider....hmmm, imo an old timer!
good night everyone, I´ve headache and I´ve got to sleep http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[KaiserSoze]

SyntaxN said:

Uh... ever heard of Tomb Raider? Blood Rayne? Etc. etc.?

Heh, first time I guess we get to save 'male' babes.



yes, but people like bloodrayne because it´s, yeah, bloody (:D) and Tomb Raider....hmmm, imo an old timer!
good night everyone, I´ve headache and I´ve got to sleep http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif



good night! i just woke up from being asleep all day myself. working nights kills me.

maybe we'll have the mystery game pegged by the time you get up!

/probably not. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/doh.gif

[Kristian Joensen]

I don't see what peice of information it is we are missing.

3D Realms has not beeing giving us alot of information about anything much less with reagards to the 3rd party game.

[tony]

This thread is moving almost as quickly as a real-time chat :-P

[The Count]

KaiserSoze said:

this is maddening but fun. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif





very true http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I never heard about a bombshell-game before. I know bombshell only as a female warrior from the dnf98-video. where does this come from ??

[Lain]

What about DN3d redone on the DNF engine?

Actually it could be possible, after all, ValvE did it, with HL:Source. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[KaiserSoze]

Kristian Joensen said:
I don't see what peice of information it is we are missing.

3D Realms has not beeing giving us alot of information about anything much less with reagards to the 3rd party game.



i'm thinking the info could be cryptic. george has lately been dropping dnf crumbs over on the shack, problem is you don't know if he's kidding around or not.

wait.

george said recently here that they had multiplayer up and running on dnf.

i remember asking him one time if they had it up and running. he mentioned "no, we'll get to that after the single player stuff" is basically finished. that's basically what he said.

so if they're fiddling around with multiplayer......could the singleplayer portion of dnf be done or very near done? http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif

is this the info we keep forgetting?

[MegaMustaine]

What about when take 2 said Duke4 was going to use the Doom 3 engine. Maybe this was an accidental leak of the secret project. D3 human head project. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[Evil Angel]

KaiserSoze said:

Viper Knight said:
This is my last post in this thread.

I am 99.99% sure the game that will be unveiled soon will be Bombshell.



problem is when you think about it, neither bombshell or prey fit into "there's enough info out there to probably guess what it is".

i really don't think there's that much "new" information on either recently that should lead us to believe it's either one. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif




Ok so it's doubtful it's bombshell or prey. The "figure it out in about a month" comment points wildly towards E3. E3 surely is too big to "unveil" a mobile game or a gameboy, DS game or something like that. It's already been said no more Shadow Warrior so it just has to be DNF doesn't it or the 3rd party game. Either way it's good news.

[Kristian Joensen]

""TRINITY®" -- A first person action game, "TRINITY" transports players into a dark alternate future in the year 2013 where a deadly plague threatens to destroy the city of New Orleans. As the mysterious "Nightstalker," a bio-technically enhanced one-man vigilante force with superhuman powers, players will cut a swath of destruction through the Big Easy. "TRINITY" has not yet been rated by the ESRB. (PC, Xbox)"

Biotechnicaly enhanced, Talon Brave was to be biotechnically enhanced originaly.

[lonestar]

Kristian Joensen said:

What you say here supports my theory that Human Head is using a engine 3D Realms made.




at first, i thought the same, but like you can see on their hompage, they're working with the doom3 engine right now. i don't know how much people work there. maybe they're also using 3drealms in-house engine to work on this soon to be announced project.

..but wouldn't this mean they're also paying license charge to epic because it still contains code of the normal unreal engine? ....

[Duoae]

tony said:
Look at the upper left corner, it was also posted in 1997 :P



Yes, it is an old game concept/idea - iD seem to have toyed with it for a while, developed and then discarded it (similar to Prey)... then sold it to Grey Matter Interactive and liscenced the "enhanced" quake 3 engine to them...

[EDIT]


..but wouldn't this mean they're also paying license charge to epic because it still contains code of the normal unreal engine? ....



Do you think Valve are still paying duty to iD for the quake engine? I don't think so....

[3D Master]

SyntaxN said:

Uh... ever heard of Tomb Raider? Blood Rayne? Etc. etc.?

Heh, first time I guess we get to save 'male' babes.



yes, but people like bloodrayne because it´s, yeah, bloody (:D) and Tomb Raider....hmmm, imo an old timer!
good night everyone, I´ve headache and I´ve got to sleep http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif



And Bombshell can't be? Actually, there has yet to be a comic, asskicking, seriously over the top, wisecracking female main character babe. They've all been serious so far, Bombshell might just pull it off.

[MegaMustaine]

Hey on another note, the camera caption contest contains charlie in Japan. Why the hell was charlie in Japan? Could the camera captioning contest contain a clue?

[Kristian Joensen]

You misunderstand my theory.

My theory is that Human Heads game uses a special version of the DNF engine with all the Epic code replaced by 3D Realms code.

It is a known fact that Human Head Studios is developing two games currently.


Duoae said:

tony said:
Look at the upper left corner, it was also posted in 1997 :P



Yes, it is an old game concept/idea - iD seem to have toyed with it for a while, developed and then discarded it (similar to Prey)... then sold it to Grey Matter Interactive and liscenced the "enhanced" quake 3 engine to them...

[EDIT]


..but wouldn't this mean they're also paying license charge to epic because it still contains code of the normal unreal engine? ....



Do you think Valve are still paying duty to iD for the quake engine? I don't think so....





Grey Matter is developing Trinity ?

The thing you said about Grey Matter using the Quake 3 engine is consistent with the fact that the engine source code did not get released when planed becuase a developer had licensed the engine.

[KaiserSoze]

MegaMustaine said:
Hey on another note, the camera caption contest contains charlie in Japan. Why the hell was charlie in Japan? Could the camera captioning contest contain a clue?



no. charlie shot that down. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[lonestar]

Kristian Joensen said:
I think Trinity is what became Quake 3 Arena.

I also think that article is some kind of prank or joke.



trinity was definitely canceled not so long ago. i will search for it...


Duoae said:
however, the source engine is heavily based on quake technology - but is still called a new engine.




no. it is a new engine with new renderer and all what belongs to it.

john carmack said:"..it still contains bits of quake code..."

but it is in no way based on the quake engine.

[MegaMustaine]

Remember that company they and human head outsourced to, and remember that indian chick in the vid. Maybe it is a female version of prey. I know that seems probably far fetched but I have really no ideas otherwise.

[Emultra]

What are you talking about "good night"? I'm the one who should be saying good night. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mryuck.gif http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

What is this "portal technology" you are talking about?

[Ronald McDonald]

I remember that GB recently said that the hype will start even more than 6 months before release, because he at first said it would be about 6 months prior to release.

Well, this could be it.....I Hope http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

[lonestar]

Duoae said:

[EDIT]


..but wouldn't this mean they're also paying license charge to epic because it still contains code of the normal unreal engine? ....



Do you think Valve are still paying duty to iD for the quake engine? I don't think so....





no. but i think dnf's engine includes more code of the unreal engine than source does of quake's engine. btw, this doesn't apply to your statement which you made in your post before.

[Duoae]

lonestar said:


Kristian Joensen said:
I think Trinity is what became Quake 3 Arena.

I also think that article is some kind of prank or joke.



trinity was definitely canceled not so long ago. i will search for it...




Trinity was the codeword for SP quake 3... which was dumped when quake 3 became multiplayer only..... i presume that this Trinity i've found is the out-sourced single-player game (that was reported to be happening (http://www.planetquake.com/trinity/old_info.html)) that iD scrapped....




Duoae said:
however, the source engine is heavily based on quake technology - but is still called a new engine.




no. it is a new engine with new renderer and all what belongs to it.

john carmack said:"..it still contains bits of quake code..."

but it is in no way based on the quake engine.



I have to disagree here. The source engine is a modifed(heavily modified) quake engine. The same as UnrealDuke is a heavily modified Unreal engine. Sure, a whole load of obsolete code was ripped out and replaced - however it doesn't change what it is.... there is no denying it - however much you want to. The engine is not just the renderer - it is the composite... hence why they are called new engines - like why the quake 2 and 3 and doom3 engines are not just called the quake engine...... All are evolutionry branches of the same thing.

[Kristian Joensen]

Nothing is stoppin 3D Realms from making a version of the DNF engine without any Epic code in it for use in the 3rd part y game.

Also note that DNF's engine uses only about 10% Epic code.

[Parkar]

As far as I have understod it portals is somthing like "rooms" in max payne engine or "zones" in unreal engine but with a more dynamic nature.

Zones and rooms is a way to optimize the visiblity code by simply checking if you can see the "portal" to the other zone/room and if you can't you don't have to check ever single object in that room since you can rule them out since you cant see into the room it is inpposible to see an object in that room/zone. there is a little more to it for instace you can make zones that warp the player sort of like a teleporter and you can see through the portal even though the other end is at the oposite side of the map.

From the little I have seen and heard of prey it seams like you can move this portals around wich is not possible in max payne or unreal. for instance you could make a cube with an opeing(wich would be the portal) and have the cube move around the portal render correctly and working the way it should.

This is just me guessing(prey part) basicaly so it could verry well be completely of.

[lonestar]

yes, that's the one i meant, trinity developed at gray matter studios. this one got canceled.

http://www.gamespot.com/xbox/action/trinity/preview_6028307.html

"Release Date: Canceled"

i don't want to get completely off topic and discuss this popular subject: game engine. not this time. ok?

[Kristian Joensen]

here (http://atlas.secs.oakland.edu/~lcmatero/prey/files/Prey_E3_1998_IMHZ.avi) is a demonstartion of Prey and its especially its portal technology.

[Parkar]

404

[lonestar]

Kristian Joensen said:
Nothing is stoppin 3D Realms from making a version of the DNF engine without any Epic code in it for use in the 3rd part y game.




this doesn't seem to be the case. but of course, i don't deny it.



Also note that DNF's engine uses only about 10% Epic code.




if we want to get in-depth in dnf's engine and dissect it in its parts, we better let george participating in it to bring us the facts...

[Kristian Joensen]

Parkar said:
404



Okay, you can find it over at the history section of the Prey page at www.apogeegames.com (http://www.apogeegames.com) under the Enter E3 1998 section, it is the interview.

[Duoae]

lonestar said:
yes, that's the one i meant, trinity developed at gray matter studios. this one got canceled.

http://www.gamespot.com/xbox/action/trinity/preview_6028307.html

"Release Date: Canceled"

i don't want to get completely off topic and discuss this popular subject: game engine. not this time. ok?



No problem with the second part - lets not go there. However, that article is old. 2003 old. The one i linked to up top is 2005 - the release date is q2 2005 for trinity...

Okay, after re-reading some stuff, maybe the actual article isn't 2005 but 2004. However, it does say release date is first half of 2005.... and considering Doom3 and VTM: Bloodlines were in the same line-up as Trinity, i wouldn't think that it is unfeasible that the game is still in development.....

[lonestar]

Kristian Joensen said:

Parkar said:
404



Okay, you can find it over at the history section of the Prey page at www.apogeegames.com (http://www.apogeegames.com) under the Enter E3 1998 section, it is the interview.



thx.

i accidently deleted some videos on my hdd, including this one awesome prey video. so.. just downloading. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

i found some info on prey here:
http://www.bluesnews.com/archives/july98-4.html

if you don't use an anti virus program, don't click on the news item "Prey Interview, No Shots".
a trojan is lurking there. woops...

edit:
it says trinity got canceled. (http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/29169/)

[Kristian Joensen]

lonestar said:

Kristian Joensen said:
Nothing is stoppin 3D Realms from making a version of the DNF engine without any Epic code in it for use in the 3rd part y game.




this doesn't seem to be the case. but of course, i don't deny it



How can you know that ?

[lonestar]

..no.. it seems to be... dnf's engine is made to fit today's standards, it's not some old stuff which needs to be modified like it is with quake3's engine. human head studios would be working parallel to dnf on it.

my assumptions aren't facts like some other guy here claims to be. hehe.

[Orochi Avlis]

I leave for 2 days and missed all the fun. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

I think it could be DNF.

[lonestar]

lol.

sorry, but you missed the pre-excitement period. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif...
ah, whatever.. just hop in on the train of ass kicking 3drealms gaming fun!

[tony]

http://atlas.secs.oakland.edu/~lcmatero/apogee/

I'm too lazy to skim through it for clues/predictions, there is a lot there. Maybe this is whom Charlie is refering to?

I skimmed, and this caught my eye. its in reference to what Scott said in an interview back in early 1998, so it may not hold any water still (the links to the audio are dead, so im not sure if its a direct quote or not). "A new female character that will be introduced in Duke Nukem Forever named Bombshell. She will then star in her own games. "

All his current comments seem to be leaning twards it being Prey. I'm sure Kaiser will find something in there :P

[Fat John]

KaiserSoze said:
charlie gave us another nugget/hint:


There is one piece of information that you guys keep missing entirely that would make everything make sense.



hmm. would it be that old take 2 blurb about them contacting 3dr and saying the game would be finished up hopefully by first quarter 2005? i don't know man. i think they still have a ways to go yet on dnf.

this is maddening but fun. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

anyone know what this piece of info is?


Anyone mention the Doom 3 engine?

http://www.gamespot.com/pc/action/dukenukemforever/news_6107100.html


George Broussard flatly denies the Doom 3 engine will be used. "We are not using the Doom 3 engine for Duke Nukem Forever," he said. However, Broussard and other 3D Realms employees declined GameSpot's repeated requests to comment on why the head of Duke Nukem Forever's publisher would make such a public mistake.

[KaiserSoze]

that doom 3 engine blurb was simply take 2 making a mistake. they aren't using it for dnf.

also, earlier megamustaine mentioned the camera contest and i said charlie shot that down in terms of being a clue. *he did not* shoot that down and i apologize for mis-stating that.

maybe it really is the obvious: duke nukem forever

the facts are: duke nukem forever is their next game.

no one has seen it yet in it's new state so it would truly be an "unveiling".

they will not start on any new internal game until dnf is finished.

wouldn't they be "announcing" a new game as opposed to "unveiling" it if it was not duke? semantics i know but the obvious guess is dnf.

[Fat John]

I agree. DNF it is then.

[KaiserSoze]

damn, this thread was like real time chat a few hours ago. everyone must have went to bed. of course i'm up all night. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/doh.gif

well after all the investigating and clues, somebody had to have guessed the game correctly.

problem is, which one?

[John]

Problem is, we wont find out until 3DR feels like telling us. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[KaiserSoze]

John said:
Problem is, we wont find out until 3DR feels like telling us. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif



from the sounds of it, they've already told us if we know what we're looking for.

[MegaMustaine]

I'm still up kaiser. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[KaiserSoze]

MegaMustaine said:
I'm still up kaiser. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif



haha what's up mega! http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

i'm back leaning towards it being dnf.(my opinion changes every half hour or so)

[MegaMustaine]

It is very interesting. I really want to know what piece of information Charlie thinks we are missing. I went through all of millers blogs today, starting back in 03. I really didn't find that much that interested me. The only place I really haven't checked out is the shack, but I find that place frustrating to sift through.

[John]

KaiserSoze said:

MegaMustaine said:
I'm still up kaiser. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif



haha what's up mega! http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

i'm back leaning towards it being dnf.(my opinion changes every half hour or so)



I've noticed with your big analysis on how it could be SW2. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[KaiserSoze]

MegaMustaine said:
It is very interesting. I really want to know what piece of information Charlie thinks we are missing. I went through all of millers blogs today, starting back in 03. I really didn't find that much that interested me. The only place I really haven't checked out is the shack, but I find that place frustrating to sift through.



the shack's chat threads can be very intimidating. basically, a bunch of people post threads. if they are not replied to, they go down the board. once a thread is replied to, it's bumped back to the very top.

i go over there periodically but realize george is probably more laid back over there so it's hard to guage if he's joking around or not when he mentions anything regarding dnf.

i also don't know what else they could possibly be referring to. my best guess is that the blurb itself is the key and we're simply misunderstanding it.(looking way too far into the statement when it's right there in front of us).

/shrugs shoulders

[KaiserSoze]

John said:

KaiserSoze said:

MegaMustaine said:
I'm still up kaiser. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif



haha what's up mega! http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

i'm back leaning towards it being dnf.(my opinion changes every half hour or so)



I've noticed with your big analysis on how it could be SW2. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif



could be! they won't confirm or deny anything so imho, anything is probably fair game to be guessed at.

[MegaMustaine]

Those bastards are sure having a fun time watching us try and decipher their message. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tinyted.gif

[KaiserSoze]

MegaMustaine said:
Those bastards are sure having a fun time watching us try and decipher their message. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tinyted.gif



i think we're having as much fun trying to figure it out. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

i'm gonna go dig around some more.

[MegaMustaine]

George Broussard said:

thehoss said:
wow, a response from George himself, I'm honored....now for my response:
"nope"
PROVE IT!


Gonna. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif



Going back through the thread to see if I missed anything and I think this comment was really overlooked as if "I've heard that before." You know George has never been this straight forward ever. It is right in front of us in my opinion. Look at his comment. He just made the prediction that he is going to prove all the naysayers wrong. I do now believe that it is DNF. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Mediocre, Man.]

Gosh, I sure hope George didn't mean soon, as in geological terms.

Soon being 100,000 years.

Don't do this to us again George!

[zwieback]

KaiserSoze said:

MegaMustaine said:
Those bastards are sure having a fun time watching us try and decipher their message. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tinyted.gif



i think we're having as much fun trying to figure it out. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

i'm gonna go dig around some more.




yeah i think i know who is that hardcore fan:
john carmack http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

so it's prey.

[General Failure]

MegaMustaine said:
What about when take 2 said Duke4 was going to use the Doom 3 engine. Maybe this was an accidental leak of the secret project. D3 human head project. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

I think you might be on to something there! http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif

I wonder what that fact that we keep overlooking is!

http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/woot.gif Exciting times ahead! http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/woot.gif

[KaiserSoze]

General Failure said:

MegaMustaine said:
What about when take 2 said Duke4 was going to use the Doom 3 engine. Maybe this was an accidental leak of the secret project. D3 human head project. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

I think you might be on to something there! http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif

I wonder what that fact that we keep overlooking is!

http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/woot.gif Exciting times ahead! http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/woot.gif



the human head project doesn't seem to be that much of a secret anymore and they're rumored to be using the doom 3 engine. it has nothing to do with dnf. popular consensus is that they are working on either "bombshell" or "prey".

anyways.....my head is spinning from this thread now.

[Mediocre, Man.]

I really really really want this to be DNF. Really.

[KaiserSoze]

Mediocre, Man. said:
I really really really want this to be DNF. Really.



i don't think there's a person in this thread who wouldn't want it to be dnf.

digging around the u.s. trademark site, i'm surprised "duke nukem forever" isn't trademarked. just "duke nukem".

[tony]

I would assume anything with "duke nukem" in it falls under the trademark. aquireing a trademark for "duke nukem forever" would be redundant since its already covered. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[tony]

KaiserSoze said:
also, earlier megamustaine mentioned the camera contest and i said charlie shot that down in terms of being a clue. *he did not* shoot that down and i apologize for mis-stating that.




I was just thinking about this. The real question here would be, was he there with coworkers and it was a company funded trip.. or was it a trip for a personal vacation.

If its the former, then it would likely be a clue for SOMETHING (but maybe not for the 'unveiling'). I'm betting its the latter and means nothing. Its fun to speculate, though. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[3D Master]

Parkar said:
As far as I have understod it portals is somthing like "rooms" in max payne engine or "zones" in unreal engine but with a more dynamic nature.

Zones and rooms is a way to optimize the visiblity code by simply checking if you can see the "portal" to the other zone/room and if you can't you don't have to check ever single object in that room since you can rule them out since you cant see into the room it is inpposible to see an object in that room/zone. there is a little more to it for instace you can make zones that warp the player sort of like a teleporter and you can see through the portal even though the other end is at the oposite side of the map.

From the little I have seen and heard of prey it seams like you can move this portals around wich is not possible in max payne or unreal. for instance you could make a cube with an opeing(wich would be the portal) and have the cube move around the portal render correctly and working the way it should.

This is just me guessing(prey part) basicaly so it could verry well be completely of.



Oh, hell no.

Prey 'portal technology' is nothing of the sort. It made the Prey engine in the first and only 4 dimensional engine. Entire worlds can be loaded simulataneously. You destroy a carrying wall the whole building collapses and then shows you the other world on the 4th axis. It alllowed dimensional gateways which the Prey E3 98 video aptly showed. There's multi ring dimensional generator in a room in there that genrates such a doorway. The ring falls away and you suddenly see a completely different room, with different lighting, different geometry and Talon Brave standing there like a hole in space, and then the ring folded over it and it was gone, showing unblemished view of the room, then the ring came up again, and the portal became visible, except now it was turned horizontal, and it was twisted some, showing the world behind the portal rather twisted, and on its side, Talon still standing completely normal inside that other side, except that the entire view of that side was flipped over.

It was and still is the most revolutionary engine technolgy in FPS games (and hell, every game) ever, so much so nobody has come up with doing it again almost a decade.

[KaiserSoze]

tony said:

KaiserSoze said:
also, earlier megamustaine mentioned the camera contest and i said charlie shot that down in terms of being a clue. *he did not* shoot that down and i apologize for mis-stating that.




I was just thinking about this. The real question here would be, was he there with coworkers and it was a company funded trip.. or was it a trip for a personal vacation.

If its the former, then it would likely be a clue for SOMETHING (but maybe not for the 'unveiling'). I'm betting its the latter and means nothing. Its fun to speculate, though. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif



http://3drealms.com/camera/images/040105.jpg

http://www.camworld.com/misc/chicken.jpg

[Duoae]

Fat John said:

George Broussard flatly denies the Doom 3 engine will be used. "We are not using the Doom 3 engine for Duke Nukem Forever," he said. However, Broussard and other 3D Realms employees declined GameSpot's repeated requests to comment on why the head of Duke Nukem Forever's publisher would make such a public mistake.






Is it just me or are you all missing the obvious here..... we already came to the conclusion that one of the two other games than DNF might be using the D3 engine.... George never said that 3DRealms were not using the Doom 3 engine in any of their games - only that DNF wasn't.....

Someone in a post not that far back before this one said something along the lines of "Maybe it was a mix-up at Take 2's office and DNF got mixed up with the engine for the other 3DR game".....

It's all carefully worded and my "plausible deniability" theory keeps rearing its ugly head http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[EDIT]

Yeah, there's a lot of confusion over the two uses of portals.

Portal system: ie. Vis portal, etc. are engine devices to limit the amount of draw distance in a level - allowing larger levels. Only works well in "enclosed" environments (See all q3,D3, HL2 etc). Things like LOD (level of detail?) are better used in large outdoor environments (see farcry etc)...

Portals in Prey were a "scientific" or technologic word or phrase to describe the phenomenon.... like "Black hole" is used to describe an intense gravity sink.

[Parkar]

yea it was abit more advanced then I thought it was.

[tony]

Serious Engine states it supports portal technology. From their website: "Portal technology overrides 3D space, introducing worm holes and four dimensional spaces. This cutting edge technology feature allows effects like displaying huge valleys inside tiny boxes in a room. This effect is ideal for displaying teleports or magic mirrors. Portals are not fixed, they can move or rotate. Also, in the Serious Engine, portals are not limited to a single polygon, but can also be applied to entire 3D objects." I've only seen it in use with one fan-made multiplayer map, so I cant really say how powerful its use of portals is.. Maybe someone here with the game and good mapping skills could try and emulate the Prey tech demos that show off potals?

http://www.seriousengine.com/bin/view/Engine/Features

[Parkar]

Not suprised the serious engine would be the one to implement such a thing. That engine has a bunch of things that can be used to do whacky stuff. For instance you can change gravity and stuff wich means you can have a map were someone is running in the roof while the other one is on the ground. Then mke the distance between the diffrent gravity "zones" close enough you could jump up from the ground and start running on the ceiling. Or you could make a planet(a small one) that actualy works so the grvity always points to the center of the planet. It had some other things I can't rmeber now that can be used to make pretty funny maps.

[SyntaxN]

Prey 'portal technology' is nothing of the sort. It made the Prey engine in the first and only 4 dimensional engine. Entire worlds can be loaded simulataneously. You destroy a carrying wall the whole building collapses and then shows you the other world on the 4th axis. It alllowed dimensional gateways which the Prey E3 98 video aptly showed. There's multi ring dimensional generator in a room in there that genrates such a doorway. The ring falls away and you suddenly see a completely different room, with different lighting, different geometry and Talon Brave standing there like a hole in space, and then the ring folded over it and it was gone, showing unblemished view of the room, then the ring came up again, and the portal became visible, except now it was turned horizontal, and it was twisted some, showing the world behind the portal rather twisted, and on its side, Talon still standing completely normal inside that other side, except that the entire view of that side was flipped over.

It was and still is the most revolutionary engine technolgy in FPS games (and hell, every game) ever, so much so nobody has come up with doing it again almost a decade.


ahhhhhhhh, yeah right...
Ok, I really don´t understand the whole technology but it sounds revolutionary http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Correct me but I think Source uses something which is very similar http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif (In the 98 movie this announcer mentioned "impossible geometrie", they must have very talented programmers for the time!)
Anyway, /ME CRYS FOR *THE* SHIT FILTER TO TELL US THE TRUTH!!!!

[Duoae]

At first i was very excited about this Serious engine.... but after reading that and remembering what and how it was used in Serious Sam, i don't think it is exactly the same thing. This sounds like a visual implementation of the portal system (as was used in Quake 3 arena) rather than a physical one. You can look through a portal and watch what is going on there - but you cannot affect anything - ie. can't shoot through it etc. This is also the same kind of technology that is used in certain Skybox things - see HL2 etc. These portals are just teleporter surfaces with a camera attached to the end-point.

Prey had a physical portal system and from what i've read and understood, it took these concepts a step further through actually opening a "rip" in the 3d-space of a room into another room.

____ aaaaaa ____
|___| aaaaaa |___|
|___| A room |___| another room

____ ____
|_=_| |_=_|
|___| |___| A portal is now 3-dimensionally connecting the rooms and the rooms are now one room - not two.

[EDIT]
To correct - source does not use this technology. No (announced) engine currently does.

[SyntaxN]

Prey had a physical portal system and from what i've read and understood, it took these concepts a step further through actually opening a "rip" in the 3d-space of a room into another room.

____ aaaaaa ____
|___| aaaaaa |___|
|___| A room |___| another room

____ ____
|_=_| |_=_|
|___| |___| A portal is now 3-dimensionally connecting the rooms and the rooms are now one room - not two.


ähmmm, I don´t understand the whole thing....
But I think the portal tech from prey is like you have one room, fire a rocket at the wall and now you can see the other room!? You´ve a full *new* physical whole, and if you wan´t you can walk through it etc.....
It´s like you can build new portals dynamicaly, and through this "portal" you can affect the other room....
Ohhh, I´ve written crap, is there something like a manual for this technology anywhere? I´m really interested in it now, and btw, this sounds like something very similar to raytracing....

[Duoae]

That's what i said. The whole engine works on a dynamic skeletal framework. Nodes can be connected through the "portals" and there can be an infinite number of connections (although this is limited by technology because through a portal the engine has to draw the geometry twice.. etc).

Also, as you pointed out, if a room is near to another room (ie backing onto it) it is possible that you can break through to the other room - like in Red Faction - only that as far as i can tell the Prey engine works by creating a "world" in space rather carving a world out of rock because that would result in the world falling on you, whereas in Prey, only what is on top of you can fall on you - and that would affect all other "levels" on top of what was destroyed. However, this modification is not part of the portal technology.... but advanced geomod..... in fact i'd call it inverse geo mod theory.

[tony]

this article has a good description of Portal Technology
http://www.flipcode.com/articles/portals_issue01.shtml

[SyntaxN]

thx, I´m beginning to understand, the Prey FAQ is usefull as well...
For me, the whole geometrie in Prey is cuted into pieces, small cubes or so and I think this is the reason why everyone was so surprised that the demonstration demo ran so fast! When you open a door, not the whole room gets loaded, just the small *pieces* which are needed! And if you want, you can rotate this pieces for 90 degrees so if you are entering the room, you are walking on the wall.....
Is this usefull for DNF?

[3D Master]

Duoae said:
That's what i said. The whole engine works on a dynamic skeletal framework. Nodes can be connected through the "portals" and there can be an infinite number of connections (although this is limited by technology because through a portal the engine has to draw the geometry twice.. etc).

Also, as you pointed out, if a room is near to another room (ie backing onto it) it is possible that you can break through to the other room - like in Red Faction - only that as far as i can tell the Prey engine works by creating a "world" in space rather carving a world out of rock because that would result in the world falling on you, whereas in Prey, only what is on top of you can fall on you - and that would affect all other "levels" on top of what was destroyed. However, this modification is not part of the portal technology.... but advanced geomod..... in fact i'd call it inverse geo mod theory.



Until you get an engine saying it's a 4D engine you don't have the same Prey-style portal technology. Unless Serious Sam has severly underused their technology, I have yet to see anything resembling Prey; and the E3 trailer seriously shows it off.

Basically from what I gathered you have whole worlds in the exact same 3D coordinates, but it has fourth axis where the coordinates differ. Portal technology allowed one to show and enter the room through that portal, of which one way would be to destroy a room's walls, making the game load up a different coordinate world/room where the wall is destroyed.

It also means you can have variable geometry, or as they called it in the trailer 'spatial distortions'. You ever seen a horror movie/sf movie where people open the door and the coridor behind it gets narrower and moves up, and odwn widens, and warbles about, and the people look with wide-eyes? Well, that's something the prey engine could do: you have three or four sections of the corridor and each section is reproduced multiple times in the 4 dimensional axis. Just ever instance is slightly different; one the corridor is narrower, or angled upward, or downward etc. When you open the door and take in the corridor, through the portal the other instances of the 4D axis are continously switched, giving the appearance of warbling corridor that never stays the same.

Of course, the smaller the sections you switch the smoother it would look, the more permutations of thos sections you load in the 4D axis the warblier the effect, (and the more powerful the computer necessary with more memory to pull it off.)

[Duoae]

tony said:
this article has a good description of Portal Technology
http://www.flipcode.com/articles/portals_issue01.shtml



Erm, that is the other kind of portal technology i described earlier. Quake 3, Doom 3 style vis portals. I've only read the first few paragraphs however, so i'll continue looking at the article.

[3D Master]

tony said:
this article has a good description of Portal Technology
http://www.flipcode.com/articles/portals_issue01.shtml



That's a "3D" engine with portal technology. Prey was "4D" engine with portal technology, revolutionize the game, the engine, as well as the portals itself.

[Duoae]

3D Master said:

tony said:
this article has a good description of Portal Technology
http://www.flipcode.com/articles/portals_issue01.shtml



That's a "3D" engine with portal technology. Prey was "4D" engine with portal technology, revolutionize the game, the engine, as well as the portals itself.



Yes. Agreed.

[SyntaxN]

@3D Master, thx, now I don´t understand anything anymore http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
"fourth axis" wtf, I think that what you´ve described is physically impossible http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif (otherwise, 3dr=god...)

[Duoae]

I think that is one of the reasons that the engine was "scrapped"... The complexity and limitations of hardware really didn't help with "special case" scenarios.

ie. like infinite connections between rooms.

[3D Master]

SyntaxN said:
@3D Master, thx, now I don´t understand anything anymore http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
"fourth axis" wtf, I think that what you´ve described is physically impossible http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif (otherwise, 3dr=god...)



Whether it's physically impossible or not, doesn't matter: they were doing it virtually after all! http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Anyway, best demonstration of it would be here: http://www.3dgamers.com/games/prey/downloads/

Get the e398prey.mpg and you get to see it in action. Notice the insane way the portal itself changes it's angle, showing the world behind it completely skewed. Imagine adding in gravity physics, and jumping in, you arrived skewed and then gravity would pull you down twisting you around... dang. 3DRealms needs to hurry up with DNF so they can work on the 4D Prey engine again. Ah...

[SyntaxN]

I think that is one of the reasons that the engine was "scrapped"... The complexity and limitations of hardware really didn't help with "special case" scenarios.


The engine was scrapped? I thought nothing from Prey was scrapped....

/edit
I know the E3 1998 movie, but it don´t looks sooo revolutionary imo, this (http://www.gamegirlz.com/pc-game-reviews/e3_006.htm)
preview is more interesting^^

[Duoae]

Notice the inverted comma's around the scrapped.... i meant put on hold.

[EDIT]

Oh and the engine isn't really 4D... that is just a catchphrase or buzzword. The engine is still 3d and from what i've read doesn't have multiple "parallel universes" as 3D Master thinks.



Basically from what I gathered you have whole worlds in the exact same 3D coordinates, but it has fourth axis where the coordinates differ. Portal technology allowed one to show and enter the room through that portal, of which one way would be to destroy a room's walls, making the game load up a different coordinate world/room where the wall is destroyed.




From what i've read - in the series of articles posted above:
The portal system used in Prey is an alternate rendering system to BSP, like Octree. Quake 3, Doom3, HL2, Red Faction, etc. All use BSP with portal funcionality - an upgraded BSP tree.

Now, there is no "4th" axis because the world is 3Dimensional and no "parallel" structures lie on top of one another to be switched to (as 3D master thought).



A basic portal engine relies on a data set that represents the world. The 'world' is subdivided in areas, that I call 'sectors'. Sectors are connected through 'portals', hence the name 'Portal Engine'. The rendering process starts in the sector that the camera is in. It draws the polygons in the current sector, and when a portal is encountered, the adjacent sector is entered, and the polygons in that sector are processed. This would of course still draw every polygon in the world, assuming that all sectors are somehow connected. But, not every portal is visible. And if a portal is not visible, the sector that it links to doesn't have to be drawn. That's logical: A room is only visible if there's a line of sight from the camera to that room, that is not obscured by a wall.





What the portal technology gives us, is the ability to break free from
static environment geometry-our environments can change geometry dynamically,
during game play, in a far more interesting manner than simply opening doors
and moving platforms that are found in most BSP-based engines."



What that means is that a pure portal engine - not using BSP trees (etc) can have changes in the "cell structure". BSP cannot, since the "cells" are static.

Although, saying that now, i'm not sure about Red Faction anymore, since that allowed for deformation.... but there was a "box" around each level - which limited the amount of deformation..... so i suppose the could divide the level into cells/sectors within the box. Maybe it generated portals "on the fly" as Prey did.

[lonestar]

General Failure said:

MegaMustaine said:
What about when take 2 said Duke4 was going to use the Doom 3 engine. Maybe this was an accidental leak of the secret project. D3 human head project. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

I think you might be on to something there! http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif

I wonder what that fact that we keep overlooking is!

http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/woot.gif Exciting times ahead! http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/woot.gif



we already discussed this pretty long last night (gmt) . look at the pages before.

btw, charlie in japan?? nice. vacation? dnf photo material?

kaiser: like i said in another thread. no such huge pics,pls. it's no fun anymore to read here. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

make it smaller with ps and upload it anywhere. or even better, just link to it.

[Fat John]

Oh God make it stop http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

[zwieback]

watch to NOT produce another prey thread. maybe it is prey, but maybe it IS Duke. I hope it is duke.
i think we all hope it is duke. the whole world is looking forward to duke4ever. maybe they are done with the game and are producing just some final stuff atm..

what ever it is, 3dr is very sure that it will blow our asses off.

[lonestar]

Fat John said:
Oh God make it stop http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif



this thread is too awesome to make it stop. amirite?

[KaiserSoze]

my final answer will be my very first prediction:

duke nukem forever.

/rob shneider voice

"you can doooo iiit!"

http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/love.gif

[Rider]

the amazing adventures of: The UBBers!

Nah, I'm going with DNF... http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[JackpotDen]

hate to burst your bubble, but portals aren't as "cool" as you think. UT 2003, UT 2004 , Halo has all that, you just can't shoot through them.

Blood gulch : Portals on top of the house thingy, you step through, and get teleported to new place.

UT 2004 : A Double domintation map, travel through the portals to get to the areas

UT 2003 : Transporter. Shoot, get teleported.

[SyntaxN]

my final answer will be my very first prediction:

duke nukem forever.



lol, come on, say it Kaiser, you´ve pmed a 3dr member (from which nobody knows that he´s working at 3dr, except you) and he said it will be DNF, right!? http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Let´s hope it´s DNF, it´s time!

[Rider]

JackpotDen said:
hate to burst your bubble, but portals aren't as "cool" as you think. UT 2003, UT 2004 , Halo has all that, you just can't shoot through them.

Blood gulch : Portals on top of the house thingy, you step through, and get teleported to new place.

UT 2004 : A Double domintation map, travel through the portals to get to the areas

UT 2003 : Transporter. Shoot, get teleported.



that's all really great and fun, but none of those "portals" allow you to see through them to whatever is on the other side, wich is basically what the amazing technoligy was about.

Only Serious Sam has a similair technoligy.

[Kristian Joensen]

I am still sticking with my theory that is is a never before seen game with a propietary 3D Realms engine based on 3D Realms own custom sub systems made for their version of the Unreal engine.

But without any Epic code whatsoever, the Epic code is in my theory replaced with either code written from scracth or some Prey code or a combination of both.

Some people will say that this theory doesn't work becuase it is a known fact that Human Head Studios is using the Doom 3 engine.

This is no problem for my theory becuase it is also a known fact that Human Head Studios is developing two games at the moment.

Plus, this also assumes that Human Head indeed is the 3rd party developer, that migth not be true.

[Parkar]

JackpotDen said:
hate to burst your bubble, but portals aren't as "cool" as you think. UT 2003, UT 2004 , Halo has all that, you just can't shoot through them.

Blood gulch : Portals on top of the house thingy, you step through, and get teleported to new place.

UT 2004 : A Double domintation map, travel through the portals to get to the areas

UT 2003 : Transporter. Shoot, get teleported.



The diffrence is that unreal portals at least is far from capable to do what is shown in the videos. Infact they are super limted. they have to be the exact same orientation, you can't create one on the fly like those things thats droped on the flor that opens a "wormhole" between them and they can't float in space, they need to be in a "doorway".

You can how ever make "imposible geometry" with them like one map I made were all rooms and corridors was confusingly connected and the whole building you were in was insade a small trailer on top of a cliff with just empty space around it.it looked kind of funny when you oend the door and there was this big hallway inside the trailer. They whole map was pretty cool but unfortunatly it never got finnished.

The transporter is not even close to being a portal all it does is move the player to another place on the map any 3d engine can do that.


that's all really great and fun, but none of those "portals" allow you to see through them to whatever is on the other side, wich is basically what the amazing technoligy was about.

Only Serious Sam has a similair technoligy.



Yes you can see through them, you can even make a hallway that loops forever but it will be abit ugly if one can see the other.

[JackpotDen]

Heres the thing : 3d realms was in E3, in 1998, showcasing both Prey and DNF. They returned in 2001, with prey "abandoned" and DNF evolved. E3 2005, i think they will both return.

[Gryph]

Well since you guys were talking about portal technology, I just wanted to ask if you read about the portal engine that Peter Molyneux showed off at GDC? I don't have a link off hand but I remember reading it.

[Kristian Joensen]

There is only one thing wich IMO points to it beeing DNF, that is the fact that this thread has not been moved yet.

[FireFly]

Quake 3 had portals that you could see through.

[SyntaxN]

Well since you guys were talking about portal technology, I just wanted to ask if you read about the portal engine that Peter Molyneux showed off at GDC? I don't have a link off hand but I remember reading it.


Never heared of it....
But I think the technology from Prey is far more than infinite portals for a room ect...
I think this is a different rendering methode, and all this teleporting and, and, and is just a small part of the possibilities!


E3 2005, i think they will both return.


And I still think it would be stupid, why should they release two games under their name in the same timeframe? (or, the technology from one game is so advanced that it gets released in 2007 or so...)

[JackpotDen]

SyntaxN said:

E3 2005, i think they will both return.


And I still think it would be stupid, why should they release two games under their name in the same timeframe? (or, the technology from one game is so advanced that it gets released in 2007 or so...)



I never said released, just returned.

[SyntaxN]

I never said released, just returned.


Yes, ok, but this would be uneconomicall imho, it´s better for a company when they´ve one game (DNF) everyone wants!
You can announce the other game, but don´t show it! After the first game is released you can start hyping your second thing....

[Duoae]

JackpotDen said:
hate to burst your bubble, but portals aren't as "cool" as you think. UT 2003, UT 2004 , Halo has all that, you just can't shoot through them.

Blood gulch : Portals on top of the house thingy, you step through, and get teleported to new place.

UT 2004 : A Double domintation map, travel through the portals to get to the areas

UT 2003 : Transporter. Shoot, get teleported.



No, those are teleporters.


Firefly
Quake 3 had portals that you could see through.




Yes, the same thing.

Didn't i already state that the portal technology in Prey is the way the engine tells where things are and hence knows which things to draw and when?

A portal engine is not to be confused with a "sci-fi" term like portal/teleporter.

The portals (those things you can see and travel through -i'm going to call them gates from now on to avoid confusion) in Prey utilised the portal technology because a portal-based engine can have moveable and "evolving" geometry in levels. That is why the gates are able to be moved in 3 dimensions. It is also the reason why, when each gate is made it joins two places in the 3Dimensional space in the game world through the "4th" dimension (null-space if you want to get all sci-fi-ey). The gates in games like quake and unreal are just surface "screens" projecting what a camera "sees" with a teleport function attached to them. They are not phsycially interacting with the level "on the fly", but are static functions of the level.

[EDIT]

It turns out, after a little research, that Red Faction uses a portal-based engine..... and therefore, i presume, the reason Geo-mod is possible in only two games i've seen to date - Prey and Red Faction....

[Kristian Joensen]

I definetly don't mind discussin what engien this game will use, but I think this technical dicussion about what portals are abit off-topic and unproductive.

[SyntaxN]

hmmm, like I said before, it sounds revolutionary ....
@Duoae, so everything is something like a visportal right, you are a big walking visportal and everything gets loaded on-the-fly!?
Why didn´t any other company used that tech....

/edit: http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/2151/portals.html

[Duoae]

We'll move this discussion on Portal-based engines to either PM or another thread then, as it is getting ridiculously off-topic. Sorry about that guys, didn't mean to meander like i have.

[lonestar]

Kristian Joensen said:
This is no problem for my theory becuase it is also a known fact that Human Head Studios is developing two games at the moment.




what i said.
i think, it's not that small of a company.

edit:
actually, i didn't know that they got two teams. it was just an assumption.


i just took a look:

"Founded in 1997, Human Head began as a single-team development studio dedicated to creating the highest quality video and computer games. Since that time, the company has expanded to more than 35 veteran game developers across two teams."

i actually don't think, they are using d3 engine for 3drealms second project prey or maybe bombshell or something...
i don't think their game concept is appropiate for this engine

...more like 3drealms self-cooked game engine. see.. 3drealms would get some money for licensing the "dnf engine" to human head.

[Kristian Joensen]

What changed your mind ?

[klatch]

From all the linked facts, the tidbits of KaiserSoze's Charlie, and the mere choice of words by certain 3DR folks, DNF is so far having the upper hand in this guessing game.

I assume George's post was a deliberate hint to see how people react, which quite stunningly wasn't taken as one, which this Charlie quite possibly was referring to.

[Ronald McDonald]

So....DNF @ X-mas 2005??!! ow please http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hhg.gif

[Kristian Joensen]

klatch said:
From all the linked facts, the tidbits of KaiserSoze's Charlie, and the mere choice of words by certain 3DR folks, DNF is so far having the upper hand in this guessing game.

I assume George's post was a deliberate hint to see how people react, which quite stunningly wasn't taken as one, which this Charlie quite possibly was referring to.



Sorry but that doesn't really work since Geroge also said that they won't release info from one day to another their will be a buildup, that is clearly not the case here.

The wording "next game" is what I take to mean that it is not DNF.

Becuase Joe has once said that we will know even less about the "next game" than about DNF, the only way that is possible is if it isn't DNF.

This is especially so considering that KaiserSoze said that they had put alot of thougth into to the wording.

So I suggest that the words "next game" where used deliberately to mean next game !=DNF.

[lonestar]

Kristian Joensen said:
What changed your mind ?



i wrote it before.

atfirst, i thought it could be prey on the d3 engine after you brought up the couple quotes. but i dunno...

or they are developing prey and another game in corporation with 3drealms. what leads to duaoe's specualtion of three games.

... i think we are all totally wrong! http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dopefish.gif

[Rider]

I'm hoping DNF, but I suspect that it will be the unveiling of their 'Mystery game'

you can quote me on that.

[klatch]

Kristian Joensen said:
Sorry but that doesn't really work since Geroge also said that they won't release info from one day to another their will be a buildup, that is clearly not the case here.


Buh? Clearly? Nothing has been said to undo the possibility of a careful buildup in unveiling their next game. In fact; at times, I've been led to believe towards a possibility in this direction in this current situation.




Kristian Joensen said:
The wording "next game" is what I take to mean that it is not DNF.

Becuase Joe has once said that we will know even less about the "next game" than about DNF, the only way that is possible is if it isn't DNF.

..

So I suggest that the words "next game" where used deliberately to mean next game !=DNF.



Rather a long shot, but could be. The hints for it NOT being DNF are still in the minority though, as far as I could gather.




Kristian Joensen said:
This is especially so considering that KaiserSoze said that they had put alot of thougth into to the wording.


I've seen only "one" choice of words that could have suggested against DNF, and upon reviewing my post, I include their choice of words to be pro-DNF, meaning I'm more convinced certain key words are leaning towards the possibility of DNF rather than any other game.


Nonetheless, my assumption isn't any greater than yours, but unless I'm missing info where you people do not (possible, since I frequent this board not as much as most of you), I'm confident in the logic behind my thoughts gathered with the info I have available to me, which are giving DNF a lead.

[trackit]

Rider said:
I'm hoping DNF, but I suspect that it will be the unveiling of their 'Mystery game'

you can quote me on that.



the 'Mystery game' would make sense ...BUT.... Charlie said that there is enough info out there for us to make correct guess about what game it is... that totally turns it around. Cause there is no info about any other 3DR game than DNF...

I hope it is DNF... The timing seems to be right also. 6 -12 months of hype (as George said) and DNF to be out in the first half of 2006

[KaiserSoze]

trackit said:

I hope it is DNF... The timing seems to be right also. 6 -12 months of hype (as George said) and DNF to be out in the first half of 2006



http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[SyntaxN]

trackit said:

I hope it is DNF... The timing seems to be right also. 6 -12 months of hype (as George said) and DNF to be out in the first half of 2006



yeah, and we don´t know how long the "timeframe" will be until we know that the hype starts! If the "next game" is DNF, a timeframe of a month from now until E3 starts is imo ok, even for 3dr!

btw, two facts that it must be DNF, the thread hasn´t moved and Joe can´t have surveyed a big thread like this one! In the past they where very quick when it goes on denying (don´t know another word for it) really important things...

[KaiserSoze]

SyntaxN said:

trackit said:

I hope it is DNF... The timing seems to be right also. 6 -12 months of hype (as George said) and DNF to be out in the first half of 2006



yeah, and we don´t know how long the "timeframe" will be until we know that the hype starts! If the "next game" is DNF, a timeframe of a month from now until E3 starts is imo ok, even for 3dr!

btw, two facts that it must be DNF, the thread hasn´t moved and Joe can´t have surveyed a big thread like this one! In the past they where very quick when it goes on denying (don´t know another word for it) really important things...



from what i understand, joe is out of work until possibly tomorrow. his wife was due april 1st with their first child. i hope everything is going well for him and his family.

also, there's absolutely no harm in this thread and i don't see a reason it should be closed/deleted. it's actually brought some much needed excitment to the forum. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[trackit]

The only thing that keeps me from being sure it is DNF is another Charlies hint about that fan prediction...

Actually those two hints are somhow inconsistent IMHO

I just cant see how fan could possibly "predict" DNF... it was pretty clear and known fact that there is planned sequel to DN3D, another Duke game...

On the other hand there is definately not enough info out there to point us clearly to any other game...
Only if Charlie didnt mean that the corret guess would be "Mystery Game" but i dont think he meant that. He propably meant certain title

[KaiserSoze]

trackit said:


I just cant see how fan could possibly "predict" DNF... it was pretty clear and known fact that there is planned sequel to DN3D, another Duke game...





george and charlie are really good about being careful with how they word what they say/write. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

charlie means the person has been a fan of apogee/3dr even before duke 3d. this fan may have predicted "hey, you guys are gonna announce a release date at next year's e3 for dnf i bet!"

everything imho points to dnf.

[MegaMustaine]

This thread is the start of the build up IMHO. It has certainly gotten me all worked up for DNF.

[Kristian Joensen]

trackit said:

Rider said:
I'm hoping DNF, but I suspect that it will be the unveiling of their 'Mystery game'

you can quote me on that.



the 'Mystery game' would make sense ...BUT.... Charlie said that there is enough info out there for us to make correct guess about what game it is... that totally turns it around. Cause there is no info about any other 3DR game than DNF...




There is some info out there about the mystery game, also you have to remember that Charlie didn't say thei r was lots of information out their about the game.

The only thing he said is that their was enough information, enough information can certainly be consistent with their beeing very little information out there in total.

[Fat John]

KaiserSoze said:
charlie means the person has been a fan of apogee/3dr even before duke 3d. this fan may have predicted...



Didn't the guy who interviewed Joe on that internet radio station make some sort of prediction?

[trackit]

KaiserSoze said:

george and charlie are really good about being careful with how they word what they say/write. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

charlie means the person has been a fan of apogee/3dr even before duke 3d. this fan may have predicted "hey, you guys are gonna announce a release date at next year's e3 for dnf i bet!"

everything imho points to dnf.



Yeah, but Charlie said that this fan predicted that they would do it "loooooong ago".... Maybe your right, but for me something seems little "wrong" here... http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[Piece of Cake]

i think we should call it prophecy http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[KaiserSoze]

MegaMustaine said:
This thread is the start of the build up IMHO. It has certainly gotten me all worked up for DNF.



this thread must absolutely exist and stay open until we apparently find out...which may be next month.

could it finally be it? http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif

fat john-

you know what? you're right. problem is, that dude on daily dementia makes an assload of predictions. which one to pick? http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/doh.gif

[KaiserSoze]

trackit said:

KaiserSoze said:

george and charlie are really good about being careful with how they word what they say/write. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

charlie means the person has been a fan of apogee/3dr even before duke 3d. this fan may have predicted "hey, you guys are gonna announce a release date at next year's e3 for dnf i bet!"

everything imho points to dnf.



Yeah, but Charlie said that this fan predicted that they would do it "loooooong ago".... Maybe your right, but for me something seems little "wrong" here... http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif



well remember, the game has been in development for what, 7+years now?

the guy could have predicted an e3 release for 2000 or something.

charlie says there's one bit of information out there that we keep missing that would most likely nail the game. i really can't think of anything else we've missed.

maybe it was the liquid development people commenting? the meqon people commenting?

[trackit]

Kristian Joensen said:

There is some info out there about the mystery game, also you have to remember that Charlie didn't say thei r was lots of information out their about the game.

The only thing he said is that their was enough information, enough information can certainly be consistent with their beeing very little information out there in total.



about that mystery game we dont know anything except that some game is propably in development by 3d party
But this is not "real" info... more like a gossip or rumour...
someone thinks its Prey, someone says its Bonbshell, Shadow Warrior 2 etc... I dont consider that as a info on which we can base our assumptions.

[Kristian Joensen]

KaiserSoze said:

trackit said:

KaiserSoze said:

george and charlie are really good about being careful with how they word what they say/write. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

charlie means the person has been a fan of apogee/3dr even before duke 3d. this fan may have predicted "hey, you guys are gonna announce a release date at next year's e3 for dnf i bet!"

everything imho points to dnf.



Yeah, but Charlie said that this fan predicted that they would do it "loooooong ago".... Maybe your right, but for me something seems little "wrong" here... http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif



well remember, the game has been in development for what, 7+years now?

the guy could have predicted an e3 release for 2000 or something.



That wouldn't make any sense if that whas the case then his prediction has long since been falsified.

The prediction part is just another major clue that it is not DNF.


trackit said:

Kristian Joensen said:

There is some info out there about the mystery game, also you have to remember that Charlie didn't say thei r was lots of information out their about the game.

The only thing he said is that their was enough information, enough information can certainly be consistent with their beeing very little information out there in total.



about that mystery game we dont know anything except that some game is propably in development by 3d party
But this is not "real" info... more like a gossip or rumour...
someone thinks its Prey, someone says its Bonbshell, Shadow Warrior 2 etc... I dont consider that as a info on which we can base our assumptions.



NO, that is not true we know for sure that they are developing a game together with a 3rd party developer, Scott Miller has said so himself.

So it is not just a rumor.

[Duoae]

You know what? I just worked it all out.... it's all so simple and yet so amazingly complex!

Have any of you heard of the film "The usual suspects?"..... i know one of us definately has, Kaiser.....

Now, who only registered last year?

- Kaiser

Who has answers from the devs when others do not?

- Kaiser

Who gets *special* hints and tips from the devs?

- Kaiser

What was the role of Kevin Spacey (Roger 'Verbal' Kint) in the film?

Spoiler:
<font color="#1F1F22"> He was an artist of misdirection and information. He covered up his true identity, that of KaiserSoze, with his apparently crippled, emotionally and morally weak character Roger Kint </font>

Misdirection.

I put it to the jury that Kaiser Soze is not in fac