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View Full Version : Doom 4: End of the Game Industry?


Locnor
04-19-2005, 02:23 PM
That is the title of John Dvorak's column in the May 10, 2005 PC Mag (I just got it yesterday in the mail at home)

I have read a lot of drivel from Dvorak over the years, but this one really takes the cake...or pie.

Some of his reasons that computer/console games are dead..or near death.

Dvorak states that his kid try to tell him he is wrong (about how games are dead). He does not believe or understand his kids.

He states that todays games: "...have a story line added to keep the players from being bored stiff."

Games have not changed. All he sees are "tweaks and weirder, mostly stupid weapons."

"It is nothing but the same old running-jumping-kicking-shooting with a new background."

..."the so-called boss characters are all beginning to be pretty much the same thing: big, creepy monsters."

So, don't bother upgrading or buying anything new. Gaming is dead.

Fat John
04-19-2005, 02:28 PM
Interestingly the majority of people that make predictions are proved wrong.

Shaam
04-19-2005, 02:36 PM
Locnor said: Gaming is dead.



I hope not atleast not till DNF is finished.

BioHazard
04-19-2005, 02:48 PM
Gaming won't die, but people's perceptions of gaming will change in the next couple of years.

I think that we will reach a plateau where graphics become unimportant because any improvements will be barely noticeable to the majority of people. We will see companies focused more on the content of games rather than the technology.

This might put some people off, but I don't think this will kill gaming. It will be similar in a way to the progression of the film industry.

Cerberus_e
04-19-2005, 03:48 PM
misleading title, I thought this would be about carmack doing a statement that they will do a doom 4, but that it will be the last.
and because doom 5 will never exist their won't be graphical upgrades after doom 4 for other developers to "use" http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
I know I have a weird manner of thinking http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

IHerman
04-19-2005, 03:56 PM
This guy is getting too old for gaming.

I lost my interest in games too, but that certainly doesn't mean the end of gaming. This guy is so full of it his eyes are probably brown.

Hudson
04-19-2005, 04:00 PM
Hey you hear that? Gaming is dead! Guess i'll just have to give it all up now http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif

He makes some valid points, but with games like Hellgate, BioShock, S.T.A.L.K.E.R., and F.E.A.R. just around the corner if you take this seriously you are an idiot.

Gaming is constantly evolving.

TerminX
04-19-2005, 04:07 PM
Hudson said:
He makes some valid points, but with games like Hellgate, BioShock, S.T.A.L.K.E.R., and F.E.A.R. just around the corner if you take this seriously you are an idiot.


S.T.A.L.K.E.R is rumored to be a huge piece of shit.

pjohnsonjr
04-19-2005, 04:08 PM
ID will go on without John Carmack...

As far as the end of gaming, I don't think so... If video games were meant to fail, they would of failed after the Atari (the major home console at the time in the 80s) kept getting sold and weak products kept coming out...

The industry won't fail, but will probably find some shakeup sooner or later if this trend of mega companies like EA keep assimilating smaller companies then eventually shutting them down for their IP... Long live independent game companies!

Cerberus_e
04-19-2005, 04:09 PM
he probably played his first game when he was 50.

I was 5 years old.
all old-school gaming elements he mentioned that he dislikes, am I emotionally attached to, shotguns, huge bosses, ...
altough bosses don't have to be huge monsters, other sorts of bosses except puzzle bosses are good too

that guy never had a childhood

Cerberus_e
04-19-2005, 04:13 PM
TerminX said:

Hudson said:
He makes some valid points, but with games like Hellgate, BioShock, S.T.A.L.K.E.R., and F.E.A.R. just around the corner if you take this seriously you are an idiot.


S.T.A.L.K.E.R is rumored to be a huge piece of shit.



I am also sceptical.
how fun will it be to travel long distances with vehicles everywhere that you already destroyed, and a broken leg which makes you move slooooow?
and always doing the same thing over and over again.
like there is a special enemy that you will encounter at night a lot, lost his name, but he can become invisisble/teleport for a while, like the red lizard troopers of duke3D.
where are they at day btw http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/doh.gif non existant? http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/doh.gif that doesn't make sense in a world where each creature lives independantly

Hudson
04-19-2005, 04:13 PM
TerminX said:

Hudson said:
He makes some valid points, but with games like Hellgate, BioShock, S.T.A.L.K.E.R., and F.E.A.R. just around the corner if you take this seriously you are an idiot.


S.T.A.L.K.E.R is rumored to be a huge piece of shit.



It's ambitious though, rumored to be a steaming pile or not i'm still interested in how it turns out.

Cerberus_e
04-19-2005, 04:16 PM
Hudson said:

TerminX said:

Hudson said:
He makes some valid points, but with games like Hellgate, BioShock, S.T.A.L.K.E.R., and F.E.A.R. just around the corner if you take this seriously you are an idiot.


S.T.A.L.K.E.R is rumored to be a huge piece of shit.



It's ambitious though, rumored to be a steaming pile or not i'm still interested in how it turns out.



wow you replied one second after me http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
I'm also interested, and I will feel very sorry (compassion in english?) for the developers if it turns out bad. I think I would cry in their place, so much work for nothing, so ambitious for nothing, so intended to give us a good game, when it will turn out bad http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif
so I hope it will be at least a "decent" game.

pjohnsonjr
04-19-2005, 04:19 PM
If there is no appreciation from what games came from...
there is no appreciation of where they are today...

There were great games through the history of the game industry...

If you pay attention to the little things in a game, people would realize how great games like Pac-Man, original Ultima series (Origin Systems before EA corporate buyout), Wolfenstein-3D, Pitfall, Super Mario Bros., Nintendo's single screen action Arcade games (Donkey Kong, Mario Bros., etc.), or any other game that has withstood the tests of time. Hell even the ones that haven't have some unique gameplay. It just depends on how hard a person looks and how much a person realizes...

Appreciating a game is like appreciating Shakespeare or Da Vinci... You have to look at it in depth to fully appreciate and understand it.

Gryph
04-19-2005, 04:44 PM
Hudson said:

TerminX said:

Hudson said:
He makes some valid points, but with games like Hellgate, BioShock, S.T.A.L.K.E.R., and F.E.A.R. just around the corner if you take this seriously you are an idiot.


S.T.A.L.K.E.R is rumored to be a huge piece of shit.



It's ambitious though, rumored to be a steaming pile or not i'm still interested in how it turns out.


Yeah, I'm not going to write the game off just yet. Though my enthusiasm for it has significantly decreased.

Paroxysm
04-19-2005, 05:39 PM
He's also rolling all gaming into one huge steaming generalisation. The action game subsection (which contains a great ammount of genres as it is) hardly represents all avenues of the industry. *plays electroplankton*

Nessus
04-19-2005, 05:51 PM
In the history of computer of gaming, we're just getting started. In some ways he's right and we keep seeing the same old crap rehashed with a shortage in creativity but I think he's wrong about it being dead.

Phait
04-19-2005, 06:02 PM
We have games that recycle a basic concept: violent conflict. Most of these games pit a lone human or a group of humans against aliens or demons, or some hybrid of human and either of the aforementioned. Designs may vary from game to game, but in the end it's what? Humans vs Aliens or Demons, with big weapons - often futuristic.

Then we have a buttload of World War 2 themed shooters. Hey, WWII wasn't the only significant war. What about WW1? A few games have went with even a WWIII concept.

What else is there in the action/fps genre today that is actually innovating on a different violent conflict?

I honestly can't think of any to answer that question. Maybe you can.

I think Dvorak has a good point. While we do have really interesting games on the horizon, and graphics are soon becoming something of less interest (especially to me... I don't care how pretty Far Cry or Doom 3 looks. If it plays well, I'll play it. I still play the Hitman series) -- if you really look at the crop that's really popular, it is all too similiar.

and id Software capitalizes on just this problem.

DissidentRage
04-19-2005, 06:36 PM
The only thing that'll make me think the gaming world is dead is if 50 Cent's game is a complete and total commercial success.

Gryph
04-19-2005, 07:09 PM
Roger said:
The only thing that'll make me think the gaming world is dead is if 50 Cent's game is a complete and total commercial success.



Well then...the gaming world is going to die soon. I forsee that game being huge.

Drazula
04-19-2005, 08:12 PM
Dvorak http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mryuck.gif http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mryuck.gif http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mryuck.gif

I am not going to trust the opinion of a guy who wrote about "genuinely interesting software" only if the software company paid him.

He is the low in journalistic integrity.

JimboC
04-19-2005, 08:27 PM
Drazula said:
He is the low in journalistic integrity.


That implies the guy has some journalistic integrity. I'm pretty much convinced that he doesn't.

Destroyer
04-20-2005, 12:55 AM
this guy clearly has no idea. Hes an idiot. I dont think I would get tired of games. hey if they made doom 4 then doom 5 I think most gammer would still play it.

Steve
04-20-2005, 01:36 AM
The gaming industry is bigger than the movie industry (TV program 60 min). It's safe to say it's going to stay. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Thriller
04-20-2005, 02:22 AM
Sometimes it feels like the ever growing "gaming-bubble" will pop in a few years. That doesnt mean gaming is dead however. Just look at the internet, or information technology in general.

More likely, gaming will become so much more than it is today. Companies will not be able to "ride the wave" in the future. I have great hopes for gaming.


Steve said:
The gaming industry is bigger than the movie industry (TV program 60 min). It's safe to say it's going to stay. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Its been like that atleast the last five years. Probably longer than that.

NetNessie
04-20-2005, 02:32 AM
Steve said:
The gaming industry is bigger than the movie industry (TV program 60 min). It's safe to say it's going to stay. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif



The only thing really keeping the gaming industry afloat is the huge commercial gain that can be obtained through sales.

Tip
04-20-2005, 04:24 AM
NetNessie said:

Steve said:
The gaming industry is bigger than the movie industry (TV program 60 min). It's safe to say it's going to stay. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif



The only thing really keeping the gaming industry afloat is the huge commercial gain that can be obtained through sales.


Yeah, unlike all those industries that don't rely on huge commercial gain through sales.

Steve
04-20-2005, 04:26 AM
Tip said:

NetNessie said:

Steve said:
The gaming industry is bigger than the movie industry (TV program 60 min). It's safe to say it's going to stay. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif



The only thing really keeping the gaming industry afloat is the huge commercial gain that can be obtained through sales.


Yeah, unlike all those industries that don't rely on huge commercial gain through sales.


Haha http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Steve
04-20-2005, 04:27 AM
Its been like that atleast the last five years. Probably longer than that.


Didn't know it was for that long. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Thriller
04-20-2005, 06:05 AM
Steve said:

Its been like that atleast the last five years. Probably longer than that.


Didn't know it was for that long. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

If im not misstaken, money-wise it ran past the movie industry as early as 98-99 or something. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

NetNessie
04-20-2005, 07:49 AM
Tip said:

NetNessie said:

Steve said:
The gaming industry is bigger than the movie industry (TV program 60 min). It's safe to say it's going to stay. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif



The only thing really keeping the gaming industry afloat is the huge commercial gain that can be obtained through sales.


Yeah, unlike all those industries that don't rely on huge commercial gain through sales.



That wasnt my point.

Tip
04-20-2005, 02:10 PM
NetNessie said:

Tip said:

NetNessie said:

Steve said:
The gaming industry is bigger than the movie industry (TV program 60 min). It's safe to say it's going to stay. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif



The only thing really keeping the gaming industry afloat is the huge commercial gain that can be obtained through sales.


Yeah, unlike all those industries that don't rely on huge commercial gain through sales.



That wasnt my point.


Well, since that was the only thing you said I'm going to have to guess you didn't have a point.

Drizzle
04-21-2005, 06:07 AM
In general, dont ever believe a journalist's opinion. Regardless of what field a journalist's publication is in, they are experts of nothing. Thats their job, learn enough to write your story and move on.

Dutch
04-21-2005, 08:19 AM
Drizzle said:
In general, dont ever believe a journalist's opinion. Regardless of what field a journalist's publication is in, they are experts of nothing. Thats their job, learn enough to write your story and move on.

Cerberus_e
04-21-2005, 11:43 AM
what's the point of quoting someone, without adding your own text, happens a lot here

Vroomfondel
04-21-2005, 12:34 PM
That’s for people who are too lazy to type their own opinion, but feel the need to say something, so they “quote for emphasis” http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hhg.gif

BioHazard
04-21-2005, 12:46 PM
Vroomfondel said:
That’s for people who are too lazy to type their own opinion, but feel the need to say something, so they “quote for emphasis” http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hhg.gif

John
04-21-2005, 01:23 PM
Atleast write "I agree" or something, jeez.

Mountain Man
04-21-2005, 09:58 PM
TerminX said:
S.T.A.L.K.E.R is rumored to be a huge piece of shit.


It's also rumored to be an amazing game. I wonder which rumor will prove accurate?

Mountain Man
04-21-2005, 10:02 PM
Steve said:
The gaming industry is bigger than the movie industry (TV program 60 min). It's safe to say it's going to stay. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif


I don't think Dvorak is saying that the game industry is dead but rather game design creativity is dead or at least dying. I have to admit I do see his point, though I don't think the situation is as dire as he implies.

Drizzle
04-22-2005, 02:29 AM
Locnor said:
He states that todays games: "...have a story line added to keep the players from being bored stiff."

Games have not changed. All he sees are "tweaks and weirder, mostly stupid weapons."

"It is nothing but the same old running-jumping-kicking-shooting with a new background."

..."the so-called boss characters are all beginning to be pretty much the same thing: big, creepy monsters."

So, don't bother upgrading or buying anything new. Gaming is dead.


If what this guy says is true, why do people still read books or watch tv? Hasnt every general subject already been covered? Its entertainment, a new story for you to experience. Why do people think that every game HAS to be groundbreaking or completely new in every way, cant it just be a good game that entertains you?

Phait
04-22-2005, 02:36 AM
Drizzle said:
If what this guy says is true, why do people still read books or watch tv? Hasnt every general subject already been covered? Its entertainment, a new story for you to experience. Why do people think that every game HAS to be groundbreaking or completely new in every way, cant it just be a good game that entertains you?



For some of us, a good game that entertains us isn't a rehash.

The Cacodemon
04-25-2005, 10:52 AM
i wonder what games dvorak plays to be such an expert on games. he's probably too old and out of touch to have a relevant opinion on the matter....

Phait
04-25-2005, 11:08 AM
When we (20 somethings) are Dvorak's age, I don't doubt we might have similiar thoughts.

Thriller
04-25-2005, 01:17 PM
John said:
Atleast write "I agree" or something, jeez.

Yeah, I agree.

Mudsling3
04-26-2005, 03:26 PM
Damn http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif Another self-proclaimed prophet wanna be. Where do they find these people? such self-importance... Does he know the long road that got us here? Like the one that said Art is dead. Just want to ask him, "Sir, between your last breath and now there isn't much difference, you might as well be dead, right?".

Dr. Kill
04-26-2005, 07:58 PM
Here is my Doom 4 theory:

Id will say "Doom 4 is set (wherever) and it will be like Doom 3 never existed. In fact, It'll be set in an alternate universe where you people never heard of Doom, or videogames for that matter. You guys wanted new weapons, so here is the baddest one of them all: the spork! The Spork of Doom to be percise! You won't be battling zombies, but Satan. We don't mean in the game, we mean in real life!" Or at least that is sort of what they sound like when they talked about Doom 3. I like Id and Doom(not as much as 3dr and Duke, though), but why call it doom 3 when it's a remake!? Doom 3 was good, but Duke will once again kick the space marine's ass!

Justin
04-27-2005, 10:30 PM
Steve said:
The gaming industry is bigger than the movie industry (TV program 60 min).



That's a myth based on comparing apples and oranges (comparing game sales to box office receipts, which are only one part of movie industry revenue). See for example the Wikipedia article on the industry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_and_video_game_industry) or Scott Miller's blog (http://dukenukem.typepad.com/game_matters/2004/02/industry_facts.html) where he calls the game industry a "small fry" in comparison to the movie biz.

Joe Siegler
04-29-2005, 10:05 AM
We've been /.'ed follks.

http://games.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/04/29/1145204&tid=166&tid=10

Interesting they quoted the forums on an article that we stopped talking about two days ago here. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Simon Charles
04-29-2005, 10:12 AM
GryphonKlaw said:

Hudson said:

TerminX said:

Hudson said:
He makes some valid points, but with games like Hellgate, BioShock, S.T.A.L.K.E.R., and F.E.A.R. just around the corner if you take this seriously you are an idiot.


S.T.A.L.K.E.R is rumored to be a huge piece of shit.



It's ambitious though, rumored to be a steaming pile or not i'm still interested in how it turns out.


Yeah, I'm not going to write the game off just yet. Though my enthusiasm for it has significantly decreased.



Mine too. But as long as people try new game designs, the industry will not die. It just needs some changes. Kinda tired of playing stuff that push th graphical edge but not the gameplay.

bonch
04-29-2005, 10:43 AM
Joe3DR* said:
We've been /.'ed follks.

http://games.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/04/29/1145204&tid=166&tid=10

Interesting they quoted the forums on an article that we stopped talking about two days ago here. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif



Was wondering why the forums seemed a little slow today.

Dukefan
04-29-2005, 12:53 PM
Is it really that interesting what's been said in this thread? I mean, is it really that more interesting than how other gaming forums would have reacted?

Then again, in my view /. has just been getting dumber and dumber with the stories they pick. Lately they've been delving into psuedo-science (a black box that can tell the future, stickers that boost your cell phone reception), and putting up clearly false stories (the Linus quote that the original article itself admitted was false, a joke photo of MS Anti-Spyware detecting Firefox as spyware).

KaiserSoze
04-29-2005, 01:24 PM
TerminX said:

Hudson said:
He makes some valid points, but with games like Hellgate, BioShock, S.T.A.L.K.E.R., and F.E.A.R. just around the corner if you take this seriously you are an idiot.


S.T.A.L.K.E.R is rumored to be a huge piece of shit.



i've seen nothing in stalker so far besides pretty graphics(and they don't make a game btw) that would prompt me to shell out money for it.