The Name

[3D Master]

I still hope they can change the name. Tommy Hawk just sounds aweful and too much loke 'Tony Hawk'. Everyone'll going: "Tommy Hawk? Isn't that that skateboard dude?"

Now Tommy Brave sounds better.

Everyone agree?

[Needle]

native american -> tomahawk -> Tommy Hawk. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/doh.gif

Sounds like a regular 3D Realms/Apogee charakter name to me: silly. He'll fit right in with "Commander Keen", "Duke Nukem" and "Max Payne". Obviously, they're doing this intentionally:
http://dukenukem.typepad.com/game_matters/2003/11/max_payne_the_m.html

[X-Vector]

Needle said:
native american -> tomahawk -> Tommy Hawk. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/doh.gif




Can someone confirm (or preferably deny) that it's actually Tommy Hawk,
the PCG only mentions his first name.

If this is indeed the case, then I see your http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/doh.gif and raise it by a million more of 'em.

[Beelze]

I agree. It should be Tom Hawk, or Thomas Hawk. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/doh.gif

[X-Vector]

If it were up to me, it'd be Tommy Tipi.

[Cerberus_e]

they should get another family name.
now hawk http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/doh.gif

[Evil Angel]

I don't seen what the problem is. It's a play on the word tomahawk so anything else like Tom Hawk just wouldn't really work. It's very similar in style to Max Payne and no one really had a problem with that. It's such a simple pun that anyone who doesn't get it or starts saying /puts on dumb hillbilly voice.. "Tommy Hawk. Is that the skaterboarder dude?" deserves to hear a very sarcastic "Yes. Yes it is that skateboarder dude. The story goes, he's turned into a native American and decided to take a vacation on an alien spacecraft where he will use his elite skills to smash aliens around the head with his board until they promise to stop trying to take over the world". http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif

[3D Master]

Evil Angel said:
I don't seen what the problem is. It's a play on the word tomahawk so anything else like Tom Hawk just wouldn't really work. It's very similar in style to Max Payne and no one really had a problem with that. It's such a simple pun that anyone who doesn't get it or starts saying /puts on dumb hillbilly voice.. "Tommy Hawk. Is that the skaterboarder dude?" deserves to hear a very sarcastic "Yes. Yes it is that skateboarder dude. The story goes, he's turned into a native American and decided to take a vacation on an alien spacecraft where he will use his elite skills to smash aliens around the head with his board until they promise to stop trying to take over the world". http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif



It's called marketing. You want a main character that will do many games, making a franchise as Joe called it, you need a name that is recognized instantly, that is unique: Duke Nukem, Max Payne, Lo Wang, Talon Brave, Mario, Luigi, Link, Zelda, are examples of those kinds of names. You need a name that instanly dredges up images of the character, as well as the games. Tommy Hawk just isn't that kind of name, especially sounds FAR too much like Tony Hawk. Now Tommy Brave, might work, but Tommy Hawk doesn't; it doesn't have the recognition factor; doesn't have a unique sound that immeidately dredges up certain images in your brain, it sounds too much like an already big name - which you only want if you make something similar weedling people to buy your product because it sounds and is confused with the bigger name.

[Gryph]

Beelze said:
I agree. It should be Tom Hawk, or Thomas Hawk. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/doh.gif


It should be Timmy Hawk.

[MeatWagon]

Tommy Hawk sounds like a Native American stereotype.
It could be worse though

[Vexed]

Seems to dredge up a lot of images for you, though. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[Needle]

3D Master said:
You need a name that instanly dredges up images of the character, as well as the games. Tommy Hawk just isn't that kind of name


It's the "Prey" franchise though, not the "Tommy Hawk" franchise.

[JackpotDen]

GryphonKlaw said:

Beelze said:
I agree. It should be Tom Hawk, or Thomas Hawk. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/doh.gif


It should be Timmy Hawk.



TIMMAAH!

http://pics.soohrt.org/misc/timmy.jpg

[3D Master]

Needle said:

3D Master said:
You need a name that instanly dredges up images of the character, as well as the games. Tommy Hawk just isn't that kind of name


It's the "Prey" franchise though, not the "Tommy Hawk" franchise.



Prey was the first Talon Brave game in the 98 video, so it seems it's the character, and the next game might not be called Prey, or Prey 2 at all.

[Evil Angel]

3D Master said:

Evil Angel said:
I don't seen what the problem is. It's a play on the word tomahawk so anything else like Tom Hawk just wouldn't really work. It's very similar in style to Max Payne and no one really had a problem with that. It's such a simple pun that anyone who doesn't get it or starts saying /puts on dumb hillbilly voice.. "Tommy Hawk. Is that the skaterboarder dude?" deserves to hear a very sarcastic "Yes. Yes it is that skateboarder dude. The story goes, he's turned into a native American and decided to take a vacation on an alien spacecraft where he will use his elite skills to smash aliens around the head with his board until they promise to stop trying to take over the world". http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif



It's called marketing. You want a main character that will do many games, making a franchise as Joe called it, you need a name that is recognized instantly, that is unique: Duke Nukem, Max Payne, Lo Wang, Talon Brave, Mario, Luigi, Link, Zelda, are examples of those kinds of names. You need a name that instanly dredges up images of the character, as well as the games. Tommy Hawk just isn't that kind of name, especially sounds FAR too much like Tony Hawk. Now Tommy Brave, might work, but Tommy Hawk doesn't; it doesn't have the recognition factor; doesn't have a unique sound that immeidately dredges up certain images in your brain, it sounds too much like an already big name - which you only want if you make something similar weedling people to buy your product because it sounds and is confused with the bigger name.



I don't know if some people are missing the pun here or what but it's Tommy Hawk for a reason. ie Tomahawk. It's one of those cliched play on words and one that has been around for a lot longer than 3D Realms they just happened to copyright it. It's like Tommy Gun for instance. Tommy Brave, Tommy Talon, Tommy Tank or whatever the hell else doesn't work as a pun. It's meaningless and doesn't strike ANY chord nevermind about it being the right or wrong one. And as for people confusing it with Tony Hawk well I just don't see it as a problem. The game is called Prey and that's what will be on the box. Anyone who can't handle 2 completely different genres of games where the characters happen to share a surname is possibly a little bit dumb in all fairness.

Also names like Mario, Luigi, Duke Nukem etc are instantly recongnisable because you have something to relate them to. No one has heard or seen anything of this character yet to be able to form a relationship with it. I can remember when sonic the hedgehog was first introduced as this direct competitor to mario and everyone was like sonic the frickin hedgehog wtf. But look at it now and it seems totally natural and everyone knows about it.

[dale h]

So i take it its not gonna be a 'Talon Brave' game any more? How come they ditched that, always thought it had a great sound to it, very catchy?

[Nacho]

Why can't the character's name remain Talon Brave?

[Needle]

3D Master said:

Needle said:

3D Master said:
You need a name that instanly dredges up images of the character, as well as the games. Tommy Hawk just isn't that kind of name


It's the "Prey" franchise though, not the "Tommy Hawk" franchise.



Prey was the first Talon Brave game in the 98 video, so it seems it's the character, and the next game might not be called Prey, or Prey 2 at all.


Highly doubtful. The name "Prey" is already known in the gaming world. Why should they drop it for a second part?

[Needle]

Nacho said:
Why can't the character's name remain Talon Brave?


Probably because they want him to be more real than, say, Duke. Talon sounds like a comic superhero, not like a real person.

[JackpotDen]

Nacho said:
Why can't the character's name remain Talon Brave?



Talon is his hawk/eagle thigny

[Nacho]

Switch the names.

[Nailed]

When I heard of the name change, it did turn me off to the character. The name Tommy reminds me of a little kid, not a grown man who's going to save Earth.

It's probably too late to change it now (dialogue has been recorded, etc), but man, Tommy? I just can't get the image of a 5 year old boy running around with his mom yelling at him. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/doh.gif

Oh well, I guess it will grow on me.

[Ivan]

Billy Hawk sounds the best to me.

[3D Master]

Evil Angel said:
I don't know if some people are missing the pun here or what but it's Tommy Hawk for a reason. ie Tomahawk. It's one of those cliched play on words and one that has been around for a lot longer than 3D Realms they just happened to copyright it. It's like Tommy Gun for instance. Tommy Brave, Tommy Talon, Tommy Tank or whatever the hell else doesn't work as a pun. It's meaningless and doesn't strike ANY chord nevermind about it being the right or wrong one.



Cliched puns, there you have the problem. Further Tommy Hawk doesn't sound nice, and it sounds too much like Tony Hawk. It just doesn't have it.


And as for people confusing it with Tony Hawk well I just don't see it as a problem. The game is called Prey and that's what will be on the box. Anyone who can't handle 2 completely different genres of games where the characters happen to share a surname is possibly a little bit dumb in all fairness.



"Not being able to handle", and "instantly bringing up a character and his/her games" are too separate things. Besides, it's not just about people like us who know all the games, it's about people who only casually play games; or their and our loved ones/family/friends. When they're wondering about what gift to buy, the name needs to jump immediately to them when they see it on a box.


Also names like Mario, Luigi, Duke Nukem etc are instantly recongnisable because you have something to relate them to. No one has heard or seen anything of this character yet to be able to form a relationship with it. I can remember when sonic the hedgehog was first introduced as this direct competitor to mario and everyone was like sonic the frickin hedgehog wtf. But look at it now and it seems totally natural and everyone knows about it.



Exactly, which is EXACTLY why you DON'T want to have a character's name sounding a lot like another character's name.

[Kristian Joensen]

I don't just like this name, I really really really love it. The best charcter name anyone ever has thougth up for any form media ever created.

[Ivan]

Kristian Joensen said:
I don't just like this name, I really really really love it. The best charcter name anyone ever has thougth up for any form media ever created.



Max Payne's way better. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif

[3D Master]

Needle said:

3D Master said:

Needle said:

3D Master said:
You need a name that instanly dredges up images of the character, as well as the games. Tommy Hawk just isn't that kind of name


It's the "Prey" franchise though, not the "Tommy Hawk" franchise.



Prey was the first Talon Brave game in the 98 video, so it seems it's the character, and the next game might not be called Prey, or Prey 2 at all.


Highly doubtful. The name "Prey" is already known in the gaming world. Why should they drop it for a second part?



Because if Tommy defeats the aliens, he won't be prey anymore.

[X-Vector]

Kristian Joensen said:
The best charcter name anyone ever has thougth up for any form media ever created.



I crown you king of sarcasm.

[Kristian Joensen]

I wasn't being sarcastic.

[Cerberus_e]

tommy hawk, who wants some earth's saviour?

[Vexed]

3D Master said:

Needle said:

3D Master said:

Needle said:

3D Master said:
You need a name that instanly dredges up images of the character, as well as the games. Tommy Hawk just isn't that kind of name


It's the "Prey" franchise though, not the "Tommy Hawk" franchise.



Prey was the first Talon Brave game in the 98 video, so it seems it's the character, and the next game might not be called Prey, or Prey 2 at all.


Highly doubtful. The name "Prey" is already known in the gaming world. Why should they drop it for a second part?



Because if Tommy defeats the aliens, he won't be prey anymore.


That's assuming he defeats them in Prey.

[Cerberus_e]

aliens are tommy's prey

[Mr.Sociopath]

Duke Hawk

[Vexed]

Steven Hawk

[Ivan]

Mr.Sociopath said:
Duke Hawt



Fixed that for you! http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Wamplet]

3D Master said:
I still hope they can change the name. Tommy Hawk just sounds aweful and too much loke 'Tony Hawk'. Everyone'll going: "Tommy Hawk? Isn't that that skateboard dude?"

Now Tommy Brave sounds better.

Everyone agree?



Agreed.

[Lengis]

Tommy Hawk is stupid.

[Viper Knight]

I think Tommy Hawk is perfect. It's a realistic name like Tony Hawk and Tommy-Lee. Talon Brave is not as realistic. Who out there do you know who has a first name of Talon? Or a last name of Brave for that matter? Not very many, if none at all, I'd suspect.

The main character is going to be an anti hero from what I've gathered. Just a normal Native American guy put into a difficult situation. Tommy Hawk is great for that and you get that pun with the word tomohawk to keep the guy's name stuck in your head. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

[Ivan]

Why is it so important to 3DR? A realistic name doesn't mean a realistic game, or vice-versa.

[Lengis]

>>>>>>>It's a realistic name like Tony Hawk and Tommy-Lee. Talon Brave is not as realistic. Who out there do you know who has a first name of Talon? Or a last name of Brave for that matter? Not very many, if none at all, I'd suspect.

No, it's not a realistic name. Why is the first name American? It would be Indian if you want it to be realistic. Hawk isn't Indian either.

[Evil Angel]

I could maybe understand if the game was called Tommy Hawk but it isn't it's called Prey. People will refer to the game name over the character name. Like for instance.

"Hey have you played that new Tommy Hawk game?"

Now I can see where the problem might be but that isn't going to happen. People will say .

"Hey have you played that new Prey game?"

People didn't refer to HL2 as the Gordon Freeman game. Personally Tommy Hawk doesn't confuse me in the slightest with Tony Hawk and I can't see how it will lead to a problem. I mean what are people gunna do, go and buy Tony Hawks underground 3 instead of Prey? The new Tony Hawk series is even called THUG now anyway probably because THUG is a clever little memorable abbreviation. I can't see how this could even lead to a problematic situation.

If you don't like the name well that's one thing but this whole Tony Hawk confusion business I just don't get the need for concern. It's such a simple pun as well. If people don't get this and seriously start to confuse this with Tony Hawk then I'm sorry but they're just dumb and you can't do anything about that.

[Viper Knight]

Ivan said:
Why is it so important to 3DR? A realistic name doesn't mean a realistic game, or vice-versa.


What I mean is this Prey guy isn't going to be a super hero like Duke Nukem is. He's going to a normal guy. And a name of 'Tommy Hawk' is more normal than 'Talon Brave'. Hence more realistic as well.

[Viper Knight]

Lengis said:
>>>>>>>It's a realistic name like Tony Hawk and Tommy-Lee. Talon Brave is not as realistic. Who out there do you know who has a first name of Talon? Or a last name of Brave for that matter? Not very many, if none at all, I'd suspect.

No, it's not a realistic name. Why is the first name American? It would be Indian if you want it to be realistic. Hawk isn't Indian either.


Maybe he was adopted or something.

[Plagman]

Lengis said:No, it's not a realistic name. Why is the first name American? It would be Indian if you want it to be realistic. Hawk isn't Indian either.



Most young indians are named with common american names, allowing easy integration. Sounds 100% realistic to me.
Plus, I don't think the name "Hawk" has been confirmed by any source. The preview just says "Tommy", people are just making assumptions based on the previous character name.

[Ivan]

Viper Knight said:

Ivan said:
Why is it so important to 3DR? A realistic name doesn't mean a realistic game, or vice-versa.


What I mean is this Prey guy isn't going to be a super hero like Duke Nukem is. He's going to a normal guy. And a name of 'Tommy Hawk' is more normal than 'Talon Brave'. Hence more realistic as well.



Who are you to say what name is more realistic in a game than the other? http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Wamplet]

The PCGamer preview indicated 3dr wanted to stray from this turning into a Politically incorrect Lo-Wang-a-thon and be genuine. This name makes no sense in that fashion.

Steve Eagleflight or John Riverwalker sounds better.

[Pycine]

I say give him a real native american name. The PC Gamer article specifically said that 3D Realms and Human Head were trying to be accurate and genuine in the native american culture that they're putting in the game. As far as I can tell, naming the main character Tommy Hawk completely works against that. If the developers are concerned about "providing authentic touchtones to the Native American themes explored in the game," I dont see why they'd give the main character a stupid, unrealistic pun name. (That quote is from the article)

[Viper Knight]

Ivan said:

Viper Knight said:

Ivan said:
Why is it so important to 3DR? A realistic name doesn't mean a realistic game, or vice-versa.


What I mean is this Prey guy isn't going to be a super hero like Duke Nukem is. He's going to a normal guy. And a name of 'Tommy Hawk' is more normal than 'Talon Brave'. Hence more realistic as well.



Who are you to say what name is more realistic in a game than the other? http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif


Alright, just scratch out the realistic and put more appropriate for the character's personality and traits then. Jeez Louise! http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Roger]

I don't see how Tony Hawk sounds anything like Tommy Hawk. I instantly think of a sharp stone wrapped around a thick stick when I think Tommy Hawk. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[Ivan]

Roger said:
I don't see how Tony Hawk sounds anything like Tommy Hawk.



When you read it fast or say it fast, people may confuse it.

[Viper Knight]

Pycine said:
I say give him a real native american name. The PC Gamer article specifically said that 3D Realms and Human Head were trying to be accurate and genuine in the native american culture that they're putting in the game. As far as I can tell, naming the main character Tommy Hawk completely works against that. If the developers are concerned about "providing authentic touchtones to the Native American themes explored in the game," I dont see why they'd give the main character a stupid, unrealistic pun name. (That quote is from the article)


Because it's what sells! What gets the name stuck in our heads! A name like Steve Eagleflight or John Riverwalker will be much more difficult to remember than Tommy Hawk. And names like Steve and John means absolutely nothing! They are boring everyday names. Tommy is also a boring name but intertwined with the pun inducing Hawk makes it perfect! http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I suppose because the game will be called Prey it's not that big of an issue. But still they might put the character's name on the box like, 'Tommy Hawk must hunt his Prey' or something like they did with Shadow Warrior, which had 'Lo Wang is Shadow Warrior'.

[Gryph]

If there are people that actually confuse Tommy Hawk with Tony Hawk when they are at the store, see screenshots and articles online or in magazines, then playing videos games should not be their first priority.

I think Tommy Hawk is a cool sounding and very plausible name for a Native American video game character. It has a nice ring to it, it's not long, it sounds hero-ish, and it's a play on the word tomahawk which is cool.

Atleast that's my take on it.

[Kev_Hectic]

Lengis said:
Why is the first name American? It would be Indian if you want it to be realistic.



That's not uncommon for this day in age actually.

[Soilwork]

I prefer Talon Brave.

[John]

Soilwork said:
I prefer Talon Brave.



Quoted for same opinion. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[Ivan]

John said:

Soilwork said:
I prefer Talon Brave.



Quoted for same opinion. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif



Does that name have something to do with Talon D'Achille (French Version)? http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[John]

I think 3DR were going for the stereotypical heritidge name, like they did with Lo Wang.

[Drazula]

X-Vector said:
If it were up to me, it'd be Tommy Tipi.


Teepee. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

You can learn a lot about a character by his name. If it is Tommy Hawk:

- he was beaten regularly at school.
- he was thrown off the reservation
- he killed his parents for naming him.

And you can learn a lot about the producers. If it is Tommy Hawk:

- 3DR wants to be sued by Tony Hawk
- 3DR wants a minority backlash for stereotyping like they got with Shadow Warrior

To 3DR and Human Head: uhhh nitwits, stick with Talon Brave. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[tony]

I'd prefer them to go with Talon Brave, too. Tommy Hawk sounds so.. Americanized.

[Nailed]

All those in favor of changing say "ay".

Eh, like I said above, it's too late to change his name.

[Rider]

Go for "Bob" as far as I care...

[John]

Rider said:
Go for "Bob" as far as I care...



I kind of agree. While the name might be important if people are constantly saying the name "Tommy hawk", the game has far more content than just the guys name to care about.

[Kristian Joensen]

tony said:
I'd prefer them to go with Talon Brave, too. Tommy Hawk sounds so.. Americanized.



It is 3DR who have researched the cherokee's, I am sure they know if the name fits.

[3D Master]

Viper Knight said:
I think Tommy Hawk is perfect. It's a realistic name like Tony Hawk and Tommy-Lee. Talon Brave is not as realistic. Who out there do you know who has a first name of Talon? Or a last name of Brave for that matter? Not very many, if none at all, I'd suspect.

The main character is going to be an anti hero from what I've gathered. Just a normal Native American guy put into a difficult situation. Tommy Hawk is great for that and you get that pun with the word tomohawk to keep the guy's name stuck in your head. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif



Then call him Tom Hawk, or Thomas Hawk, or better yet, create an actual native american name (which Talon Brave is actually closer to a native American name from what I can tell) but not Tommy Hawk.

[3D Master]

Viper Knight said:
Because it's what sells! What gets the name stuck in our heads! A name like Steve Eagleflight or John Riverwalker will be much more difficult to remember than Tommy Hawk. And names like Steve and John means absolutely nothing! They are boring everyday names. Tommy is also a boring name but intertwined with the pun inducing Hawk makes it perfect! http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I suppose because the game will be called Prey it's not that big of an issue. But still they might put the character's name on the box like, 'Tommy Hawk must hunt his Prey' or something like they did with Shadow Warrior, which had 'Lo Wang is Shadow Warrior'.



Sorry, but no, Tommy Hawk being so generic is actually more difficult to remember than Eagleflight or Riverwalker - and better yet, the name is so ungeneric it immediately satisfies the unique marketic requirement.


GryphonKlaw said:
If there are people that actually confuse Tommy Hawk with Tony Hawk when they are at the store, see screenshots and articles online or in magazines, then playing videos games should not be their first priority.



It's not just the people who PLAY the games you need to hit, but also the ones who BUY the games. - aka people looking for a gift for the ones playing them.


John said:
Nobody is going to care about the name when they play the game.



Yes they do - hence Gordon Freeman, Duke Nukem, etc. being discussed on discussion forums. Is it very important, no, but it's definitely an important part; especially if you here other characters call you by the name and you cringe every time you hear it.

[John]

Nobody is going to care about the name when they play the game.

[Drazula]

Kristian Joensen said:

tony said:
I'd prefer them to go with Talon Brave, too. Tommy Hawk sounds so.. Americanized.



It is 3DR who have researched the cherokee's, I am sure they know if the name fits.


I can assure you, the name does NOT fit a Cherokee. They did not name themselves after animals. At least not the ones tied to their heritage. Tommy Hawk is a bit of a mockery of Cherokee culture. (Besides sounding like something Bart Simpson made up, like "Al Coholick" and "Mike Hunt" http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/doh.gif). Talon Brave is much better but not great. Some examples of more accurate names would be Tom Spears, Joe Smoke or John Mankiller. Heck, even Mike Bushyhead is more Cherokee. Alas, none of these names are gimmicky enough. But they would never use a name after an animal... EVER! 3DR and Human Head should expect a backlash from the Cherokee nation if they stick with Tommy Hawk. Well, I guess it's better having 6 injuns on the warpath than having a billion people mad at you. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

The modern Cherokees remind themselves of the pain they have endured. "Trail of Tears" symbolizes their journey into Indian Territory after Europeans began encroaching on their territory. Everything you wanted to know can be found at the Cherokee Nation website. (http://www.cherokee.org/) If you look at their culture and history you will find some very interesting info. (Stuff even my squaw wife didn't know!).

Note, for all you PC lunatics: Cherokees refer to the multiple nation of "native americans" as INDIANS! So take that "native american" stuff and STFU! http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[X-Vector]

Tommy Hawk is a good character name... for a Teletubbies game.

Tinky Winky, Dipsy, Laa-Laa and Po rendered in the DooM III engine, blessed with 3DR's Midas touch - think of the possibilities!

[X-Vector]

Rider said:
Go for "Bob" as far as I care...



Good choice.

http://digilander.libero.it/twinpeaks3/bob2.jpg

Now that is a character I'd like to play.

[The Cacodemon]

Kristian Joensen said:

tony said:
I'd prefer them to go with Talon Brave, too. Tommy Hawk sounds so.. Americanized.



It is 3dr who have researched the cherokee's, I am sure they know if the name fits.



back when 3dr did that research, they came up with the name Talon Brave.. if the name is now tommy hawk, it might not have had the same research done on it - it could be osmething like "hawk" being a visual or animal connected to the native indian, something like that....

[Viper Knight]

3D Master said:

Viper Knight said:
Because it's what sells! What gets the name stuck in our heads! A name like Steve Eagleflight or John Riverwalker will be much more difficult to remember than Tommy Hawk. And names like Steve and John means absolutely nothing! They are boring everyday names. Tommy is also a boring name but intertwined with the pun inducing Hawk makes it perfect! http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I suppose because the game will be called Prey it's not that big of an issue. But still they might put the character's name on the box like, 'Tommy Hawk must hunt his Prey' or something like they did with Shadow Warrior, which had 'Lo Wang is Shadow Warrior'.



Sorry, but no, Tommy Hawk being so generic is actually more difficult to remember than Eagleflight or Riverwalker - and better yet, the name is so ungeneric it immediately satisfies the unique marketic requirement.



The reason I said the name of 'Tommy Hawk' would be much easier to remember than others like Steve Eagleflight or John Riverwalker is the pun that is has with tomohawk, not to mention Tony Hawk. But I suppose if people didn't get that pun then it could maybe be more difficult to remember than the other ones.

[shiranui]

Just rename him to "Foghorn Leghorn"

Anyway, does it really matter if people "remember" his name? Maybe for eponymous stars of games, like Duke. In this case though, all they need to "remember" is Prey.

[hell-angel]

They should name him "Geronimo" then when he jumps out of a plane of something he can shout "meee" instead of "geronimooo". http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Asmodeusz]

How about "Indie Ann Tomahawk"?
Or you could just change the games name to:
"Tommy Hawks Pro Portals"

[Drazula]

hell-angel said:
They should name him "Geronimo" then when he jumps out of a plane of something he can shout "meee" instead of "geronimooo". http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


Hehe, but Geronimo was an Apache. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[hell-angel]

Drazula said:

hell-angel said:
They should name him "Geronimo" then when he jumps out of a plane of something he can shout "meee" instead of "geronimooo". http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


Hehe, but Geronimo was an Apache. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif



they all look (and sound) the same to me. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif was just meant as a joke though.

[Scott Miller]

>>> It's very similar in style to Max Payne and no one really had a problem with that. <<<

Evil, I understand your point, but the reality is that we took a TON of heat for the name Max Payne prior to the game's release. We also took heat on the name Duke Nukem, especially prior to the 1996 release of Duke 3D, which was getting all sort of national coverage among gamers who'd never heard of the first two side-scrolling Duke's, and so the name was new (and silly) to them.

Game's make character names, not the other way around, and so we know that even if we have a name now that few people like, if the game comes out and is a hit, then the halo effect will transfer to the name, too, just as it did with Max and Duke.

Also, we know the name is a lightning rod, but at least it has people talking. This is a key part of marketing for us -- we like to stir opinions and controversy. Lo Wang anyone? ;-)

All of this said, notice that I DID NOT confirm of deny what the name will be. But it will definitely be a name that polarizes people -- that's how we roll. It's always better to be hated/loved, rather than meh'ed.

Scott

[Kristian Joensen]

How could it be anything else considering that you don't have the trademark to anything else ?

[Drazula]

Scott Miller said:
It's always better to be hated/loved, rather than meh'ed.


Hehe, poor Scott is tired of being meh'ed! You're such an attention whore. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[Vexed]

Potkettle?

[Lengis]

Scott Miller said:
It's always better to be hated/loved, rather than meh'ed.




Those are my feelings when it comes to girls.

[Viper Knight]

Kristian Joensen said:
How could it be anything else considering that you don't have the trademark to anything else ?


They could trademark a new name later down the track you know. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[X-Vector]

Scott Miller said:
Game's make character names, not the other way around, and so we know that even if we have a name now that few people like, if the game comes out and is a hit, then the halo effect will transfer to the name, too, just as it did with Max and Duke.




If that's true, then why is it necessary to give the protagonist a 'special' name ('special' as in 'special olympics' if it is indeed Tommy Hawk), especially when that name isn't mentioned in the (main) title of the game?


Also, we know the name is a lightning rod, but at least it has people talking. This is a key part of marketing for us -- we like to stir opinions and controversy. Lo Wang anyone? ;-)




This does not correspond with the following quote of yours from the PCG article:


Our research into American indians and especially the Cherokee has been extensive and time-consuming.
From the start we believed that authenticity was critical to the believability of the characters and their story arcs.
Yes, we're making a dark sci-fi game, but within that context we still want the characters and their mythology to ring true.

[Kristian Joensen]

Those quotes aren't contradictory at all.

[Scott Miller]

>>> This does not correspond with the following quote of yours from the PCG article: <<<

I can see your point, but when the game comes out, the character name will far better explained *within* the game's fiction itself. The lead character has an authentic Cherokee name, and goes by the adopted name Tommy (most Native American's use a Caucasian first name nowadays).

Scott

[Kristian Joensen]

Scott, the more I hear about this game the more excited I get.

[mysteryperfecta]

Scott Miller said:
All of this said, notice that I DID NOT confirm of deny what the name will be. But it will definitely be a name that polarizes people -- that's how we roll.
Scott



Word, money, but people are talking about Tommy Hawk because it's lame. I thought you guys were making a serious game, with characters we could empathize with and a story that would 'make us cry'. Goofy puns run contrary to those objectives.

The name 'Duke Nukem' is a carry-over from a cartoony side-scroller. 'Max Payne' fits in the context of an over-the-top noir setting. As far as I can tell, NOLF didn't make the name Cate Archer. Tomb Raider didn't make the name Laura Croft. Half-life may have the name Gordon Freeman, but did so discreetly. 'Tommy Hawk' may fit the context of Prey, but out of context, it's too obvious and silly. I guess we'll have to wait and see.


Also, we know the name is a lightning rod, but at least it has people talking. This is a key part of marketing for us -- we like to stir opinions and controversy. Lo Wang anyone? ;-)



People are already talking about Prey, but due to it's feature list. Giving your main character a dumb name is counterproductive, IMO. Hopefully, development decisions like this are the exception to the norm.

[mysteryperfecta]

Kristian Joensen said:
Those quotes aren't contradictory at all.



Not directly, but look at it in the context of this scenario:

Scott Miller: "We spend a lot of time researching Cherokee heritage an effort to respectfully present it in-game."

PCG: "What's the name of your main character?"

Scott Miller: "Tommy Hawk. Get it? Tomahawk? 'Me smoke'm peace pipe!'"

[3DProgrammer]

From a thread in 2001, http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/sh...true#Post151172 (http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=apogee&Number=151172&Searchpage=1&Main=151168&&topic=&Search=true#Post151172)

Scott Miller said:
Wow, Lon, good sleuthing. Joe alerted me to this, so I took a look. Yes, Chase Venture was something we registered because George thought is might be a good character name in the future, but Chase Bank has an investment division called Chase Ventures, so we dropped the idea.<P>Can't really say anything about Tommy Hawk, though I can say 3D Realms is not developing a game with this name. We often get names and later drop them.<P>Did you see that we once had Max Heat? That was the first name we had for Max Payne.<P>Scott

[Reaper]

I don't see what the huffaw is about. Talon Brave was a quirky name, just as Tommy Hawk, if not more so. It's just a harmless pun! I have just as much attachment to Prey as anyone, and I didn't feel any different about Prey when I heard the name. It's just a name! It's not that bad. It's not like they are using really annoying voice actors or anything. I'm still hyped for this release.

[clayasaurus]

Vexed said:
Steven Hawk



lol. that's one way to stir up controversy

[Spooger]

At least the game isn't called "Tommy Hawk." http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[DudeMiester]

Any chance Tommy Hawk can skateboard?

[Ronald McDonald]

Yes, and scalp ppl at the same time http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mryuck.gif

[Native Houjoub]

Prey: A <font color="red">Tommy Hawk</font> Game

[Beelze]

I think he should just be called "The Prey Guy."

[Viper Knight]

Beelze, please tell me your being sarcastic because calling the character the player controls 'The Prey Guy' would not be appropriate at all. Prey is going to be a game with a strong story and where the player's character talks. Therefore, I think he needs a name for people to refer to. And having 'The Prey Guy' would be boring in that regard. In addition, it would be a lost opportunity for better marketing of the game.

[Beelze]

It worked for Doom, didn't it? http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tinyted.gif