Why do you still use build?

[LeadBullet]

I'm just wondering. I used build for a while and made lots of maps, gave them to the misc geocities duke3d sites, but after a while I stopped because theres only so much you can do with it.

It's been a while since I quit and now even less people play duke3d, and there are more widely played games like UT that use the same mapping program that DNF will.

So why use a old DOS game level builder instead of learning the one to make maps for the sequel?

[alejandro]

Build is fun to use and Duke3d may be old but is the game that I most like.

Anyway, I know also how to use UnrealEd and I made some things with it, but I don't think on "making levels for a sequel", because Duke3d and DNF may have both the "Duke Nukem" name but are two different games.

[sir_plague]

It's been ages since I've fired up BUILD for a quick level, but I used to love it for it's ease and simplicity of use. Page up, page down, Enter, TAB, V, SPACEBAR, and S. That's about it. Nowadays you've got all sorts of commands and programming and such, it's really a hassle to make a few rooms -- which could take you 30 minutes versus what only took you in BUILD about 5.
Don't get me wrong, I love being able to mdel levels in complete 3D, I just wish they'd make building programs easier to use. Although, when building in 3D you have to have a lot of options or you are limited, which is not the idea of building in 3D. So I dunno, I'm ranting now. images/icons/tongue.gif

Note: when I referred to "building in 3d" i meant using brushes to make rooms, etc.

[ 12-29-2001: Message edited by: sir_plague ]

[Ding Bat]

I haven't built a map yet that hasn't taken less than 300 hours.

But then i like to build quality maps, not garbage maps in 5 minutes. graemlins/hhg.gif

[sir_plague]

garbage.. 5 minutes..<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
Well, you get the jist of it.
[editx5]nevermind. tried to let ya'll download some maps of mine, guess not.

email me if you want some though. they're pretty good.. and interesting.

[ 12-30-2001: Message edited by: sir_plague ]

[Bruce Hamilton]

Originally posted by Ding Bat:
I haven't built a map yet that hasn't taken less than 300 hours.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
Not that I don't believe you or anything, but do you realize just how long 300 hours of build time is? Comes out to 12.5 days of non-stop building, 24/7! If your levels are indeed that detail oriented, where can I download them? images/icons/shocked.gif

[ 12-30-2001: Message edited by: Bruce Hamilton ]

[Carger2000]

This was brought up before.
The answers were: Its easy to use, fun and
full of neat touches.
Ill probably keep using till I die images/icons/grin.gif

[cyborg]

Originally posted by LeadBullet:
So why use a old DOS game level builder instead of learning the one to make maps for the sequel?<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

Why make maps in the first place?

It's an utter waste of time whatever you're making it for. Should it matter what method of time wasting is used?

[B.T. Clegg]

Well, by God, call me an utter time waster.

[alejandro]

DingBat: Man, 300 hours is really a lot! You don't need so much time if you already have an idea of what you want. For example, I made an space map (YMF500G) that took me 7-8 days, about 2 hs per day, so there are 16 hours in total, and the map got 96 points at MSDN and 97 at We Store Your Crap, so i think that it's good...

Try to have an idea of "exactly" what you want to build before starting, of course you will have more ideas when you are building the map but if you have it already planned (in your head, don't need storyboards or something...) it's a lot faster.

[Roger]

Originally posted by cyborg:


Why make maps in the first place?

It's an utter waste of time whatever you're making it for. Should it matter what method of time wasting is used?<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

Making mods, testing new sprites, and stuff like that. I don't think someone's gonna make something new and not alter/add new maps. For example, the test map with the EDuke download? I'm finished with that...

Now, to the question... I use Build because it's simple and easy.

[Kef Nukem]

It's totally fun.. Worldcraft is too slow and I hate compiling, then loading the games etc. It takes ages and BUILD is just quick.. though.. the graphics sorta sucks and the count in options is limited.. making a good and big map for Duke can cost months and for Half-life it takes much less time.. shading and shit is just one click.

When I quit Duke.. I quit maps.. I'm kinda tired of mapping images/icons/smile.gif maybe I'm going to do some sounds, textures.. or take a long rest or work more on school (which I doubt) but I'll see what I'm going to do.

[Phoenix]

Originally posted by Carger2000:
This was brought up before.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
Yeah, it was right here (http://forums.3drealms.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=5&t=001312&p=)
Also, 300 hours is about right. It's not like 'who can make maps the fastest' more like who can make it 'so you wanna play it' more than ones.

[ 12-31-2001: Message edited by: Phoenix ]

[Ding Bat]

Originally posted by Bruce Hamilton:

Not that I don't believe you or anything, but do you realize just how long 300 hours of build time is? Comes out to 12.5 days of non-stop building, 24/7! If your levels are indeed that detail oriented, where can I download them? images/icons/shocked.gif <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

First off, i'm retired and love Duke. on one of my maps i did try to keep the time i spent and it was approx. 300 hrs.
Part of the reason so much time is spent, is becuse i do alot of checking things while building the maps and i try to come with differnt thing to use. And after the map is complete, i play it several times to make sure it plays well and there are no bugs(which alot of maps i've D/L'd are next to unplayable).

Now that DukeWorld is gone, i think you can get them at File Planet images/icons/tongue.gif or Sunset.

If you want them, the are.... alstown.zip ,caverns3.zip, dthvally.zip, duksmall.zip, elevhell.zip, fortduke.zip, subpen.zip
They're big and single player only.

by: alejandro
DingBat: Man, 300 hours is really a lot! You don't need so much time if you already have an idea of what you want.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

Well i do get an idea for a map but not much of an idea, so i just start building and as i go, i think of things.

PS. I don't detail my maps like Roch does.
Becuse my maps don't have much room left for detail. Plus i just don't have much of an eye for detail. I asked Roch once if he was and architech or a building contractor because of the detail he puts in his maps, and he is an architech.

[j.h]

the thing i liked about build was when i started using it about a year(maybe more) ago,i could just start building simple rooms straight away,i try other editors for quake and half life ect,and to be honest i just cant be bothered to learn,i like it simple,
i feel like kef said,when duke finaly dies and nobody plays the maps any more,i dont want to make maps for owt else.

[Kef Nukem]

Yep J.h looks like you're thinking the same as me images/icons/smile.gif

I'll see what I do when I'm done with Duke.. but no maps I think. Although I've heard and seen mapping for Max Payne is TOO easy and that also sucks but ah well.. I'll just wait and see what's gonna come.

[Diaz]

For me Build is the best level editor ever and it still is. If I have left it and moved to other engines it's just because I'm very, very tired of it. But it still rocks! images/icons/grin.gif And then you have the sweet and flexible E-Duke CON language... I wish making a mod for today's games was half as easy and quick as creating a Duke3D mod. The only fast editor for a game of today is GtkRadiant (the one I'm working with), it's very easy to use and things can be built quickly, though not as much as in Build.

[ 01-02-2002: Message edited by: Diaz ]

[Kef Nukem]

Cool Diaz lives! images/icons/grin.gif
Anyway you're right.. I liked Radiant too but I lost Quake3 so I stopped with it again images/icons/smile.gif even if I had Quake3 I would have stopped too but so far.. it has been the best Map Editor for windows (well if you ask me). It was easy and not too slow.

[Rott King]

LOL DINGBAT, I have some of your levels, i can't really remember them though, because they are all on that Nuke it 100 CD....Does anyone else have that?I got it from COMP-USA a LOOONG time ago.It has 500 Duke match, and 500 Single player maps.(You guessed it, 300 of those maps in each section BLOW)But i do remember playing them.Heh. graemlins/hhg.gif

[CONAN]

I believe there's a level called BRIDGE.MAP on Nuke-It, that consists of 3 brown-brick, texture 0 sectors, the middle one lowered, with the normal bridge sprite floor-relative in the middle. No level has ever been as bad as that, not even my test maps... because that one was finished!

[ 01-02-2002: Message edited by: CONAN ]

[sir_plague]

Hah, I had some CD a while back that had a butt load of maps, and about 85% were unplayable (horrible). There was one in particular I still remember -- it was called Water.map I believe, and all it was was a very small room that made you crouch with a small water sector at one end, and when you went into the water, you couldn't get out, because the map builder forgot to give the underwater sector a lotag of 2. It was funny as hell.

[ 01-03-2002: Message edited by: sir_plague ]

[Ding Bat]

Originally posted by sir_plague:
Hah, I had some CD a while back that had a butt load of maps, and about 85% were unplayable (horrible). There was one in particular I still remember -- it was called Water.map I believe, and all it was was a very small room that made you crouch with a small water sector at one end, and when you went into the water, you couldn't get out, because the map builder forgot to give the underwater sector a lotag of 2. It was funny as hell.

[ 01-03-2002: Message edited by: sir_plague ]<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

Ya..i believe i have the same disk, it's called Duke assault (over 1500 levels) this disk was a direct copy off the internet.

Your right about the the garbage, a lot of the maps were kind of instructional maps on how to make a door.....etch. And some of the maps were unplayable, because the didn't include the the mod con files.

Oh ya the company was software values international images/icons/tongue.gif

[ 01-03-2002: Message edited by: Ding Bat ]

[Kef Nukem]

I've downloaded that pack once (no not a CD, I downloaded it) and yeah it was crap-ass and most of the maps that were playable I had already played before. I think I could (sometime) make a nice and big pack with great maps from the Duke history.

[Roger]

Originally posted by Kef Nukem:
Although I've heard and seen mapping for Max Payne is TOO easy...<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">MaxEd is like QuArK in Build's 3D mode. I haven't been able to make a simple room with the standard six sides. I'm stickin' with Build.