Scott's Fist of Feelings

[Viper Knight]

Scott Miller said, in the recent press release, that Prey is going to be a game that features a tightly integrated story that packs an emotional punch. I wonder if it's going to be as powerful as Max Payne's story was, where Max's wife and kid gets murdered and stuff, or even more so. If it is as potent as that I'll be quite excited because Prey will be a science fiction game and science fiction is one of my favorite genres. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

What do you think, guys? Do you think Prey's story is going to be as emotional as Max Payne's was, or even more so? Do you actually want it to be as emotional as Max's? In addition, are you looking forward to the unfolding of the game's plot especially or are you just mainly looking forward to blowing things up? I suspect most peoples answers will be a bit of both but I don't think it'll hurt to actually find out. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[MeatWagon]

Well I hope the story is emotional and has depth, I need a reason to be blasting things to hell. I think that the the Max Payne games are good with this, I felt something for the characters and that spurned me on to finish the game. Afterwards I felt very satisfied.
HL2 and Doom3 really lack in that department and after finishing them both I wasnt really that interested in playing them again.

[Needle]

I hope they manage to steer around the reefs of sappyness. If they try to hard with their emotional punch, it easily could end up corny.

[Viper Knight]

Needle said:
I hope they manage to steer around the reefs of sappyness. If they try to hard with their emotional punch, it easily could end up corny.


It needs plenty of power with minimal movement, eh? http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[crunchy superman]

Needle said:
I hope they manage to steer around the reefs of sappyness. If they try to hard with their emotional punch, it easily could end up corny.

[JackpotDen]

Needle said:
I hope they manage to steer around the reefs of sappyness. If they try to hard with their emotional punch, it easily could end up corny.



The emotions have to be geniune, for Max payne 1, i laughed at him over his wife.

[Micki!]

JackpotDen said:

Needle said:
I hope they manage to steer around the reefs of sappyness. If they try to hard with their emotional punch, it easily could end up corny.



The emotions have to be geniune, for Max payne 1, i laughed at him over his wife.



Damn, you must have some cold hearted feelings... http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/redface.gif http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dopefish.gif

P.S. Read subject... http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hhg.gif

[Gryph]

In the PC Gamer article he said something like if they've made the player cry they've accomplished their mission. Now that's a pretty bold statement. I am really looking forward to what kind of story and story telling they have in place.

[Kristian Joensen]

I trust Scott when it comes to game design and marketing.

[Viper Knight]

GryphonKlaw said:
In the PC Gamer article he said something like if they've made the player cry they've accomplished their mission.


Wow! Hope the game comes with a little box of tissues! http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hhg.gif

Seriously though, if Prey makes me cry while playing it, well, that'll be a first. I have shed some tears over a movie and some music but never to a game. Except once I cried because I bought a game that was total crap compared to what I thought it would be. But Prey is going to be far from total crap, isn't it? http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Tim. Just Tim.]

Prey looks like its going to be a good game graphics-wise, gameplay-wise, and some other-wises as well.

But Im really really not looking forward to this 'emotional punch' crap. Its going to be gay I can tell.

People are always whining that the stories in games arnt good enough, and so on. I personally hate it when games attempt anything other than your basic 'save-the-world', or 'avenge-your-whoever' story. Even when games supposedly have a decent story (eg HL1, HL2), I get tired of it pretty quickly anytime the story gets in the way of me shooting and blowing shit up for more than 15 seconds.

They are talking about trying to make you actually care about the characters and actually feel for them or whatever. I have a strong feeling that will fail miserably, unless the player is somewhat of a feeblemind.

Im being pretty harsh I know, but I just have a hunch about this one. I will probably buy the game, for its other qualities, and yes I will give the story a fair chance, but Im sure I'll end up wishing that the developers spent their time elsewhere.

[Lotan]

If it's done right then it makes game better and increases replay value for it. Just like in the movies, for example.
Feel for the character coould be a very strong feature.

Some developers want their game to be more than just an entertainment("kick some ass"). And I agree with them about possibillity of game being some sort of real art. Actualy, why not? Max Payne, KotOR proved it.

[Rider]

I'm not sure what to think of it, right now I'm just interrested to see what they did with the story/game etc.

[Kristian Joensen]

Ehh, this is all about the story.

[mysteryperfecta]

Kristian Joensen said:
I trust Scott when it comes to game design and marketing.



I feel the opposite way about his marketing, because it's just traditional PR. It's hyperbole. Here's a Max Payne 2 synopsis:

"Max Payne 2: The Fall of Max Payne is a violent, film-noir love story. Dark, tragic and intense, the in-depth story is a thrill-ride of shocking twists and revelations. Twists and turns of the in-depth storyline keep you hanging on as the the dark, twisted plot unfolds. You'll encounter compelling, malicious characters in that gray no-man's-land between good and evil. Fans left hungry for more after Max Payne should prepare to be blown away!"

Emotion in games is usually about as subtle as a sledgehammer. Max Payne and it's sequel were no different. I'll be surprised if Prey gets me to care, much less cry. Scott doesn't really expect people to cry, either. It's just PR-speak.

[Karthik]

As long as they don't pull a Santa Barbara then I'm all in. The last game that tried that was Metal Gear Solid 2 and I cheeks hurt so bad when Raiden and his...girlfriend were having a so-called tragic conversation! http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/doh.gif

[FireFly]

mysteryperfecta said:
I feel the opposite way about his marketing, because it's just traditional PR. It's hyperbole. Here's a Max Payne 2 synopsis:

"Max Payne 2: The Fall of Max Payne is a violent, film-noir love story. Dark, tragic and intense, the in-depth story is a thrill-ride of shocking twists and revelations. Twists and turns of the in-depth storyline keep you hanging on as the the dark, twisted plot unfolds. You'll encounter compelling, malicious characters in that gray no-man's-land between good and evil. Fans left hungry for more after Max Payne should prepare to be blown away!"

Emotion in games is usually about as subtle as a sledgehammer. Max Payne and it's sequel were no different. I'll be surprised if Prey gets me to care, much less cry. Scott doesn't really expect people to cry, either. It's just PR-speak.


Actually 3DR weren't responsible for the marketing of Max Payne 2, if that was the reason you'd used that example.

But personally, I like the way Scott is marketing this game. I'm tired if the "story is really important to us" people who make copious comparisons to the film industry, and boast that they've hired the latest and greatest scriptwriter, as if 'story' is something separate from the game itself. Valve overdid it with the whole "emotional meaning" thing, causing my expectations to be elevated far too much, when in fact the characters never felt more than just people in a computer game world.

I'm still waiting for the game that combines emotion with action.

In the mean time, Scott gives the impression they're going for a "no nonsense" approach, which seems a little more fresh.

[X-Vector]

Scott Miller as quoted in PCG:


Prey's story attempts to cover new ground by adding an emotional depth missing from the FPS genre.
[...]
In the same way Duke Nukem 3D was the first FPS to add humor to the genre, Prey will be the first game to at least attempt to have a real love story, and devastating heartbreak. I can't say much more without getting into spoiler territory, but we know we will have achieved our goal if we get emails from players who shed tears.




What "no nonsense" approach?

I understand your reference to Valve, but at least they never mentioned that they expected people to cry when playing HL2 - not to my knowledge anyway.

[Kristian Joensen]

Scott didn't say he expected people to cry. He only stated that if they cry 3DR and Human Head have achieved their goal not the other way around.

He didn't state that he would be disappointed if people didn't cry, plus his statement is obviously exaggerating abit.

[melt_core]

I cried at the end of unreal2 (no, I really did..). Does that make me *****?

[Kristian Joensen]

Well that depends on the ending of Unreal 2. I haven't tried the game so I don't know.

But this does raise a question, will someone who cried at the end of Unreal 2 cry at the end of Prey ?

[Duoae]

I felt extremely cheated at the end of PoP:TSOT..... not in that Damn you game! I feel cheated, meddling kids! kind of way, but the whole Spoiler <font color="#1F1F22">way you win, but lose everything</font>. Great Emotioneering techniques...... Speaking of which, I wonder if Scott or anyone will answer my question regarding that......

[mysteryperfecta]

Kristian Joensen said:
Scott didn't say he expected people to cry. He only stated that if they cry 3DR and Human Head have achieved their goal not the other way around.



Splitting hairs. The stated goal is to ellicit a tearful reaction. What do think the chances are that Prey reaches those goals? It's 100%, if it's coming from Scott-- he's got a game to sell.

I'm not saying that it's not possible; I'm just saying that PR-speak in previews and press releases are not going to convince me.

[X-Vector]

You know, even if Prey achieves Scott's/3DR's goal 100%, I still can't see myself crying a river as large as the Amazone I shed when I saw Grizzly Adams' grizzly die on TV.

[FireFly]

X-Vector said:
Scott Miller as quoted in PCG:


Prey's story attempts to cover new ground by adding an emotional depth missing from the FPS genre.
[...]
In the same way Duke Nukem 3D was the first FPS to add humor to the genre, Prey will be the first game to at least attempt to have a real love story, and devastating heartbreak. I can't say much more without getting into spoiler territory, but we know we will have achieved our goal if we get emails from players who shed tears.




What "no nonsense" approach?



They've said that they're going to attempt a real love story, that's it. They haven't claimed their story is movie material, they haven't talked about the player's 'amazing' relations with the main characters - just that they're going for a sad story.

I would consider that a pretty no nonsense way of marketing the game, compared to what other devs throw at us. But yes, the crying part is hyperbole.

[Orochi Avlis]

melt_core said:
I cried at the end of unreal2 (no, I really did..). Does that make me *****?


It got me sad.
It was also, IMO, one of those sad but beautiful endings.

One of my friends ruined the endings for me, so they entire time I'm thinking: "Now? Ok, now! Is it gonna happen now?!"

[X-Vector]

What interest me is how the developers intend to add emotional depth; is it simply by imposing feelings on the player by unfolding events or do the player's actions factor into to it?

Deus Ex tried the latter approach, by confronting us with the consequences of certain actions (e.g. JC being reprimanded by his brother Paul after a heavy-handed solution to a barricade by rebel forces) and that's what I'd like to see more of.
Simply scripting NPCs to die just before you can reach out to them is a lot less work but also a lot less satisfying.

[Tim. Just Tim.]

Movie makers have tried for a long time, a lot longer than game makers, to add emotion to movies. To make people actually care about the innocent pretty young girl that has just been unfairly kidnapped or killed. To make people cry.

The movies are invariably shitty and even have a special name: chick flicks.

Im sure the gameplay, graphics, and even some aspects of the story will be awesome. But this emotional-make-the-player-cry stuff is going to be stupid. There is no non-stupid way to do it. Its just going to be the little annoyance in the game, just like Doom3 had no goddam lights, HL2 had those pissoff antlions following you around, star wars had jar-jar-binks, and Canada has mosquitoes. These are all things that are otherwise awesome, but just have little annoyances. Oh well you cant expect any game to be perfect.

[dark_angel]

I think emotional range is not something computer games have explored as much as they could.

Prey would be the first game that will concentrate on expanding the emotional experience in games beyond excitement and accomplishment, into more unexplored and uncharted emotional territory.

That's why I respect and Love 3drealms, they always bring something new to the table, they want players to feel something when playing their games and I guess this is the highest level that is the goal of all art!

[General Failure]

melt_core said:
I cried at the end of unreal2 (no, I really did..). Does that make me *****?

I cried at the very beginning. Throwing away 50 bucks can make you do that to you... http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[Nessus]

EVeryone's going to cry, the first 2 creatures that get shot in the game are Bambi and Old Yeller!

[St. Toxic]

They shoot each other?

[melt_core]

You know, there's a wide range of emotions. Him saying the game packs emotions doesn't necessarily mean it's going to make you cry..

Max Payne for example was pretty intense emotionnally, but it didn't make you cry..

[Viper Knight]

FireFly said:
But yes, the crying part is hyperbole.


I don't think it's hyperbole. I think Scott was being quite serious.

I'd like to quote a section out of an article out of an Australian newspaper (The Age (Livewire) - Thursday, June 16, 2005, page 5).


Even acclaimed film director Steven Spielberg believes in the potential of the gaming industry, although he labels the game sector as an adolescent with much to learn, particularly when it comes to story-telling and character development.
"I think the real indicator," Spielberg told a game lab at the University of Southern California, "will be when somebody confesses that they cried at level 17."

[Plagman]

melt_core said:
I cried at the end of unreal2 (no, I really did..). Does that make me *****?



Nah, not at all. The ending was really good, much better than the rest of the game (though I think it was quite good itself, I didn't feel like having wasted my money like some here.)