So, when should I get a new computer?

[Higher Game]

Mine is currently just over a year old, but it was put together from old parts for about $500. I have my summer job set up, so I'm thinking of getting a computer that I can actually play games with.

My current computer has an onboard graphics POS, and I'm thinking a 6600 GT would be very nice for it. An AMD at about 3 gigahertz would also be good. It already has a gig of ram in it, so that's not an issue.

What should I do? How can I tell what my motherboard is so I know if I can possibly upgrade this one? If I can't, when would be an appropriate time to get a new computer? I do know there is a lot of new stuff coming out, like physics processing units, PCI express, 64 bit processing, dual cores, and other cool new stuff. Is getting an outdated 32 bit processor and AGP worth it? How can I tell if my computer can even have an upgrade?

[Tedades]

You probably want a new computer when DNF comes out, but we dont know when that will be...

For now, I shouldnt worry about your current system. Put a new (fast) harddrive in it and a fast up-to-date graphics card.

I own 1.3GHz amd, but because of the GF6800 it runs most games my girlfriends 64-bit AMD (3.2) would run, but loads a little longer http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Raidomarek]

wait until ATI s SLI mod and AMd X2 processors..they shold tore down other hardware prices...at least a little bit.

[8IronBob]

I would wait until Microsoft's 64-bit Windows OS is released. Then, you can plan to build a system that'll make the 64-bit fly low, and allow you to multitask around it. Also, when the HD-DVD and/or Blu-Ray DVD burners become more of a standard, then the prices won't be so high. Of course, that all may take a couple of years for the 64-bit version of XP to be reasonably priced, and the new technology to be affordable, but that, along with a 512 MB Vid Card, and a 24-bit sound card will all work. Expect to be ready somewhere within the next couple of years before doing anything significant.

[Jeff]

Tedades said:
Put a new (fast) harddrive in it and a fast up-to-date graphics card.



Ah yes, the fast hard drive. You'd want a rippin' fast Western Digital Raptor 74 GB hard drive. Just one though. At 10,000 RPM, Windows and programs should load like that...*SNAP*. It's got Tagged Command Queuing, which allows for a performance increase over the 36 GB model, which doesn't support write caching, or TCQ. You don't need RAID 0 on this. When the SATA III drives come out, I might sell my current Raptors and get a 74 GB model. I'm not in a rush to upgrade.



I would wait until Microsoft's 64-bit Windows OS is released




It is released. My local shop sells it. Of course, you probably meant until they get full 64-bit driver support. Yeah, I wouldn't jump on the new OS just yet.

[Higher Game]

I'm a patient guy. Load times don't bother me. They're slow enough anyway. I prefer frames per second! So, I don't think I really need a 10,000 rpm hard drive.

Hearing about that 1.2 ghz computer with the 6800 makes me just want to get one of those. How much does the memory on a video card matter? 128 should be plenty, from what I've heard. 512 ones just seem like a gimmick.

I'm poor here, so don't tell me to get SLIed 6800s, please. My upgrade budget is about $500 now, and I would want to save maybe $800 if I were getting a completely new computer. I want it for games today, planning ahead for new games is a waste of money.

[Hudson]

Get an AMD64 CPU and a GeForce 6600GT

[Water12356]

Tedades said:
You probably want a new computer when DNF comes out, but we dont know when that will be...




What that man said!

[Higher Game]

The 6600 GT seems like a good idea, but I don't know if a 64 bit processor would be necessary. I don't even know if a new processor would be needed (a 2200 is relatively fast, right?)

[NutWrench]

Higher Game said:
My current computer has an onboard graphics POS, and I'm thinking a 6600 GT would be very nice for it.



Oh man, you have no idea HOW much nicer. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

If your current computer does everything you want right now, then don't bother to upgrade. If you just want to buy some computer parts NOW, while you have the money, I would start off with a really nice case, power supply, soundcard, keyboard/mouse trackball, hard drives, CD/DVD drives, etc.

Save the motherboard, CPU and graphics card for last. That way, you'll have most of your parts and you can still change your mind at the last minute about your motherboard/CPU setup. Also, those parts will be cheaper if you buy them last than if you buy them right away and sit on them for 3-4 months. (It took me about 4 months to put my current computer together.)

[Night Hacker]

You should be able to see the BIOS version and type on POST (when the system boots). Just press your PAUSE key on your keyboard (if you're quick enough) and write down the information. If you know the brand name of your motherboard (like ASUS for example) than you can go to their website and the motherboard manufacturer will often give you information on how to tell what motherboard you have. Then you can look online and get the specs for it.

If you you a new motherboard, I recommend checking out some of the websites that give review of hardware. I like Tom's Hardware myself, but there are others to choose from. Check out their best rated motherboards for the CPU you want. Do not cheap out on a motherboard, if you spend a little extra on a quality board you won't be sorry and you may be able to upgrade down the road to a better CPU without changing motherboards, this will actually save you money in the long run. (buy two cheap motherboards, or one expensive one, same price in the end, only better quality if you go for the better one now).

You could also open up your case and look on the mothboard itself for the brand and model number if all else fails.

As for CPUs, they are pretty cheap. I personally prefer AMD cpus, but you may like Intel better, your choice. I bought an AMD 1700+ and overclocked it to the speed of an AMD 2600+ (and I can go as high as a 3200+ if I want). When I first bought my motherboard I bought the best at the time for AMD CPUs. I NEVER intended to overclock the CPU though, I was too nervous about that until I was educated about it more and realized that I could easily overclock without risk. I also learned that the motherboard I spent extra $$$ on was money well spent because it was considered one of the best boards for overclocking. So it definately paid off.

I used to buy cheap video cards like a GF5200 which was a nice card for the price I paid but I finally grabbed a GF6800 (BFG6800OC to be exact) and it was money well spent!

I upgraded to 1 GIG of RAM (actually 1.25Gigs as I kept one of my 256M RAMs for now).

I can run all my 3D apps at the highest quality, which was my goal.

What you get depends on what you want to run. Get a decent motherboard and video card... a 64bit CPU is also nice, the load times for the can be quite remarkable. You might want to make sure you get a larger hard drive for all those 3D games you'll probably be trying out on your new system. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Higher Game]

40 gigs is big enough for me. I do have worries about the power supply. Would a 6600 GT require a new power supply than an onboard? How much do power supplies cost?

By the way, that is some serious overclocking. Do you use water cooling or something?

[Roger]

A PSU will probably run you about $100-150.

[DudeMiester]

The Athlon 1700s overclock really well, so air cooling is all you really need. Of course, you can get water or phase if you're not satisfied. Also 2200 is pretty slow. If you want a decent processor that's not too expensive then get yourself a 939pin Athlon64 3200, and this is very important, with the Venice core. The get 2x512MB of some decent RAM, there's so many kinds it's hard to recommend one in particular. The fastest is UTT CH-5 and UTT BH-5, which can be found in the OCZ VX, Mushkin Redline, and many others. But there are literally hundreds of cheaper, lesser performing types of RAM. The Geforce 6600GT is definitly a good idea, and you want 256MB. Oh and you'll want to get PCI-Express too, as it costs no more then AGP.

[Steve]

Would a 6600 GT require a new power supply than an onboard?


Yes. If you don't, you can kiss the card good buy http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/redface.gif

[Higher Game]

What do you mean? Is giving a card too little power enough to actually damage it?

When considering a new processor, graphics card, power supply, and motherboard, it's just starting to sound like I need a new computer instead of just an upgrade...

[Night Hacker]

Yes, you may need a whole new system, depending on what you have and how much of an upgrade you want.

My CPU is cooled by the fan alone. Some quality grease helps keep the CPU cooler than the best fan. If I overclock the 1700+ to 3200+ my fan runs at full speed (it changes speed depending on the cooling needed) so that is the max for air cooling. When I overclock it to 2600 the fan runs at just a little over half speed. The AMD is probably the best CPU for overclocking I have ever heard about.

The key is knowing your CPU and how CPUs are made. The CPU I bought was made using the same dye that the 3200's are made with. The only difference was the settings and cache size. Once I learned that, I realized it was the same CPU as the 3200! There was no reason why it couldn't run faster. With water cooling I could push it even faster. The CPU can handle up to 110 degrees celcius before it shuts down and at 2600 it runs under 50C most of the time. at 3200 it is just a little hotter.

My motherboard usually heats up more than my CPU does.

If I were you I would buy at least a 400W power supply, the CPU will need it as well as the video card.

[Jeff]

Higher Game said:
I'm a patient guy. Load times don't bother me. They're slow enough anyway. I prefer frames per second! So, I don't think I really need a 10,000 rpm hard drive.




Yeah, I went a little overboard there. Probably get yourself a nice CPU, power supply (if required), and graphics card. If you've got a 7200 RPM hard drive, then there is no need to upgrade that. All new hard drives run at 7200 RPM, except for the WD Raptors, and the SCSIs which spin between 10,000 and 15,000 RPM (Raptor is 10K RPM only). You could look at your current CPU socket, and see if you could get a faster CPU. For example, I've got a socket 754, which I can upgrade to the A64 3400+, or if you had a socket 478, you could upgrade that to a 3.4 GHz P4, if I'm not mistaken.

If your CPU is 2.5 GHz or higher, then I would forget the CPU, and look at a new video card. Doom 3 runs on a 2.0 GHz minimum, AFAIK. You'd want to conserve the money, and do a big upgrade when DNF comes out. Like these guys say, get a good card like the Geforce 6600 or 6800 GT or a Radeon 9800 Pro, if they have those around still. Remember, this is a short term thing. Don't want to go overboard on one particular component. Then when DNF comes out you can get a high end card and enjoy the framerates.

[Tedades]

jeffbthomson said:
If your CPU is 2.5 GHz or higher, then I would forget the CPU, and look at a new video card. Doom 3 runs on a 2.0 GHz minimum, AFAIK. You'd want to conserve the money, and do a big upgrade when DNF comes out. Like these guys say, get a good card like the Geforce 6600 or 6800 GT or a Radeon 9800 Pro, if they have those around still. Remember, this is a short term thing. Don't want to go overboard on one particular component. Then when DNF comes out you can get a high end card and enjoy the framerates.



I run Doom3 on a AMD-XP 1500+ running at 1.3GHz.
It loads like hell (sounds doom like), but runs fine.

[ZuljinRaynor]

Raidomarek said:
wait until ATI s SLI mod and AMd X2 processors..they shold tore down other hardware prices...at least a little bit.



Erm, I believe SLI is nVidia tech. I don't see how ATi could do that.

[DudeMiester]

Underpower your videocard won't actually damage it. However what can happen is the PSU is so overstressed that it blows, in which case it might send a power surge to your entire computer. If this happens (it doesn't always) then you will probably loose most of your computer parts.

ATI is making their own version of SLI btw, but lets not talk about that. Trust me you don't need it.

[Higher Game]

I have another question. How can I tell how hot my PC is running? If I do get this upgrade, I would like to see how hot it gets before getting a power supply that might not be necessary.

Is there a program where I can see my computer's temperature?

[Steve]

Your motherboard must support it. But you can have a look in your BIOS to see if there's a temp menu.

Doesn't matter how hot your PC gets you will always need a good power supply. Never over look this simple thing http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[DudeMiester]

The majority of busted computers are because of a poor PSU, don't risk it. Get a good quality name brand PSU. Generic is the spawn of satan.

[Jeff]

^ Yes. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

May I recommend an Antec PSU? This 480W one has worked wonders for me. No problems yet. You don't need 480 watts though. Try and calculate how much you need. DudeMeister should be able to find a link for you. There is PC Power and Cooling, but I don't know whether that covers the latest stuff like SLI and Athlon 64 FX or P4 EE or the latest socket 939 or 775 chips.

[Gatinater]

Go get a new computer right now, Cause yourz sux. FAAAAAAAAAAAAAGG!!! BWUHAHAHAH! MWUHAHAHAH! http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/love.gif

[DudeMiester]

Oh PC Power & Cooling covers everything Then again I don't think he needs an 850W PSU or a 510W PSU for that matter. They're really expensive too. Instead just get an Antec (although I've had one fail on me recently, and upon inquriery they have about a 5% failure rate, which is not so good). Other good brands are OCZ, Fortron and Zippy.

[Hudson]

I have an Antec True550 and was one of the best inventments I have ever made.

[Steve]

Enermax PSUs are very reliable.

[avatar_58]

Considering PC's don't last forever and won't always play the newest games till the end of time I say go out and buy what will let you play some new games now.

I realize my PC won't last forever however I decided to go nuts and buy what would make me happy now. Do I regret it? No....especially considering I will only need a new mobo/cpu (and maybe a vid card in the far future) and that will costs me much less now that the rest of my parts are top notch. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

(Cept for my ram....but I've never been one to put much thought into ram. Got 1 gig and I didn't go into timings or such because I've yet to proven that it makes THAT much of a difference)

[Steve]

(Cept for my ram....but I've never been one to put much thought into ram. Got 1 gig and I didn't go into timings or such because I've yet to proven that it makes THAT much of a difference)


I don't invest that much in ram, either http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Jeff]

DudeMiester said:
Oh PC Power & Cooling covers everything




Must have been some other site then. Ooops.

[avatar_58]

Steve said:
I don't invest that much in ram, either http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif



Just like I didn't bother with PCI-e. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif I realize that it is the future and won't argue....but its just not used and I didnt want to shell out more money for the mobo and graphics card. When the tech becomes used and mainstream and my pc outdated, then I will shell out for a new mobo/etc but that won't be for some time.

[Higher Game]

UPDATE.

I copied what my computer says when it starts. Does this have anything to do with my motherboard?

Amibios American Megatrends 62-0100-001131-00101111-123103-SIS741-M8636-Y2KC

I don't know if I can use an AGP 4x/8x card or not. My previous computer, a 500 mhz Pentium 3, could only use a PCI card. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif I just don't know how to tell if a motherboard can use AGP, they don't say when you buy them, and I hate being taken advantage of. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif

It doesn't help that I didn't get any google results for what I found, either.

[Kevin Wolff]

If you want to know if you can use AGP, just look on the motherboard for the brown slot above and offset from the PCI slots. If it's there and the PC is a year old, you support at least AGP 4x.

[Wooloomooloo]

Looks like you own a PCChips M863, which has a AGP 8X slot. If you want to be sure, download a system information tool like AIDA32.

[Higher Game]

Motherboard Properties:
Motherboard ID 62-0100-001131-00101111-123103-SIS741$M863G
Motherboard Name Unknown

Front Side Bus Properties:
Bus Type DEC Alpha EV6
Bus Width 64-bit
Real Clock 133 MHz (DDR)
Effective Clock 267 MHz
Bandwidth 2133 MB/s

No name? http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/doh.gif I think it can use an AGP card, but I don't know if I can upgrade the CPU. Here's the stuff about my CPU here.

CPUID Properties:
CPUID Manufacturer AuthenticAMD
CPUID CPU Name AMD Athlon(tm) XP 2200+
CPUID Revision 0681h
Extended CPUID Revision 0781h
Platform ID CBh (Socket A)
IA CPU Serial Number Unknown

I don't think I can get a 64 bit CPU, and I don't care. I would just like to move up to maybe a 3000+, wouldn't that be fast enough to prevent it from bottlenecking the whole thing?

[Jeff]

You couldn't get a Barton CPU, that's for sure. You could only get a CPU which is under the Athlon XP 2700+, if I'm not mistaken. Only those under the 2700+ or lower support the 266 MHz FSB. Barton has a 333 MHz FSB, as well as dual channel memory support. Plus a few other things. Be aware that there is a Barton CPU which is at 2500+. Don't be fooled.

Try downloading Everest Home Edition. It should tell you what you can upgrade it to. I can only upgrade mine from an Athlon 64 3200+ to a 3400+. Not worth it.

[Wooloomooloo]

Take a look at the "Display" section, it should tell you what bus (AGP or PCI) your video "card" is using. Plus, according to PCChips' site, there are three motherboard models named M863G, all of which have AGP slots.

[Drazula]

Honestly, I think right now is one of the WORST times to buy a computer that I have seen in years. Dual core CPUs are just around the corner and new GPUs are a few months away. I was going to build a new computer now but I've decided to put it off for 8-10 months.

[Jeff]

Do they still make computers without AGP slots? You know, with just PCI or worse, ISA slots? Probably not. Mine's set to AGP 8X, fast writes ON, and a 128 MB aperature size.

[DudeMiester]

jeffbthomson said:
Do they still make computers without AGP slots? You know, with just PCI or worse, ISA slots? Probably not. Mine's set to AGP 8X, fast writes ON, and a 128 MB aperature size.



Yes they do, it's call PCI-Express. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[Wooloomooloo]

Yes. PCChips has a few models without them. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif

[Jeff]

DudeMiester said:
Yes they do, it's call PCI-Express. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif



That's the newest standard that's faster than AGP 8X. I'm talking about older stuff. Like PCI 1.0 or something. The early days. PCI-Express goes at 4 GB per second or something. Do they make PCs with straight PCI or ISA slots anymore? No PCI-Express or nothing.

[avatar_58]

I think its impossible to keep up with technology. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mryuck.gif Just get something that works for what you need.

[DudeMiester]

Oh it's perfectly possible to keep up, but you have to either spend a LOT of money, or more sensibly just overclock your hardware.

[Jeff]

With mine, I got a bunch of fast hardware so I wouldn't have to upgrade for a long time. If Windows loads in less than 45 seconds. I'm happy. If a program can install itself without freezing, I'm happy. While I'm at it, I mind as well make the machine as fast as I can without voiding the warranty. That's why I put 2 WD Raptors in RAID 0, as well as a few other things (nice speaker set...). If the machine can do things without taking a looong time (say 5 minutes to install a small program), then it should be good. Most of my small programs install in seconds anyways, which means that I can keep my $1500 that I plan to get another system with in the next few years, and spend it (or save it), for something else. For example, a gaming console. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif.

I might think that overclocking my CPU is worth it, and I've got the cooler to do it, but it's not worth risking my warranty for a little speed.

[Higher Game]

Does the brand of video card make a huge difference? So far, all I know is to avoid mail-in rebates because they're not always honored. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/doh.gif So, I've looked at Newegg, and they have a 6600 GT for $159. However, they also have some for nearly $200! Does the brand name matter much?

Also, EVEREST did an excellent job at giving me system info. I was very impressed with it. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif So far, I don't even think I will need a new processor. 2200+ isn't THAT old!

My only problems now are my reluctance to order over the internet due to security issues, the installation of the card, and the brand of card.

[Jeff]

A 6600 GT, you say? I'd save your money and get a 6800 GT with 256 MB RAM.

As for video cards, my Radeon X800 Pro does the trick, it's just that the drivers suck. A few games crashed because of it. I don't want to upgrade my video card for a while, so I bought the best that I could afford. You should too. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Or some people buy a mid ranged card now, but when say, DNF comes out, they might want to get a SLI/MVP setup (dual PCI express 16x cards).

[Higher Game]

People were saying to wait for DNF for a graphics card in 1998. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif I'm definitely NOT going to do that! I would just like to know which brand of card is good. Isn't Leadtek really good? Is BFG better? The cost difference isn't small, but I'd like to know I'm getting a quality product.

[Mudsling3]

I would use "Alan Wake" as a rule of thumb...See what it will cost to run it at max. From what I read, Remedy kinda hints at consorts. The odds are I might have to settle with a new consort for the next couple years. Now is a bad time to upgrade pc!!! Hope my Athlon 2.2 Ghz and 6600gt will last for a while.

[Night Hacker]

Higher Game said:
People were saying to wait for DNF for a graphics card in 1998. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif I'm definitely NOT going to do that! I would just like to know which brand of card is good. Isn't Leadtek really good? Is BFG better? The cost difference isn't small, but I'd like to know I'm getting a quality product.



I bought a BFG 6800 OC and love it. It has a lifetime warranty on it.

[DudeMiester]

LeadTek is fine, BFG is good too, I've heard XFX cards overclock quite well, ASUS's 6800Ultra is really nice. However, I would wait for a few weeks for the Geforce 7 series.

[Higher Game]

Yeah, the prices on the old cards should drop a little when the new ones come out. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Dogy]

DudeMiester said:
Oh it's perfectly possible to keep up



By working your way around and buying mid-range stuff.