Death-walking

[mysteryperfecta]

I wondered if I could get some clarification on this particular aspect of the game.

My first impression was, "Great, an innovative way to avoid replaying the same section of the game over and over." But since then, many questions have surfaced like:

*How does this work with the save system? What if I just saved the game 30 seconds ago, and don't mind replaying that small portion of the game? Do I have the option to save my game at any point?

*How long to I have to shoot "spirit animals" before my health is restored and I can return to the real world?

*Is this "death walk" going to become monotonous if I'm dying with some frequency? Is it going to become purgatory instead of a respite? Am I really going to prefer to "death walk" rather than simply replaying the previous section of the game?

*"Spirit animals"? Really?

[Spooger]

I'm sure Deathwalk won't be as boring as all of that. Here's a scenario:

Prey allows saves only at certain points in the game. No, this is not official, but it sure makes a lot of sense given the system of deathwalking.

Another example could have (and wouldn't this be eerie?) a forced death sequence. That's right, some scripted event takes place, and you die. What if they're more than just spirit animals to worry about in death mode? Having to deal with enemies while you're dead (what happens if you die twice http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif) could be a really enjoyable pain in the ass.

There's a lot of potential, and a lot of potential problems with these systems. I expect HH and 3DR will have most if not all of them worked out by release, but on the other hand it's a good sign that people are puting forward an effort to point out things like this: it could only lead to a better game.

[Kristian Joensen]

Scott and George like Death-walking, their stamp of approval is enough for me.

[Kev_Hectic]

Death Walking sounds a lot like the spiritual world thing in the Soul Reaver games. In those games, when you died, you'd end up in a spiritual version of the area that you were in, and you'd have to collect souls to bring your physical body back to life.

It really sound similar to me.

[Orochi Avlis]

mysteryperfecta said:
*Is this "death walk" going to become monotonous if I'm dying with some frequency? Is it going to become purgatory instead of a respite? Am I really going to prefer to "death walk" rather than simply replaying the previous section of the game?

*"Spirit animals"? Really?


Death walk happens when you die.
Spirit Walk makes you leave your body while you can do all sorts of crap. But there is a downside, you leave your physical body, thus making you vunerable.

[mysteryperfecta]

Orochi Avlis said:
Death walk happens when you die.
Spirit Walk makes you leave your body while you can do all sorts of crap.



I didn't say otherwise. I said that, in death walking, you presumbably shoot "spirit animals". I said nothing of "spirit walking", which is, as you said, something entirely different.


Kristian Joensen said:
Scott and George like Death-walking, their stamp of approval is enough for me.



That doesn't surprise me. But it isn't enough for me.

I assume that there's a more elaborate explanation of death walking, and I'm curious to know what about it is. As it stands, with my very limited knowledge of the feature, it sounds problematic.

[Orochi Avlis]

mysteryperfecta said:

Orochi Avlis said:
Death walk happens when you die.
Spirit Walk makes you leave your body while you can do all sorts of crap.



I didn't say otherwise. I said that, in death walking, you presumbably shoot "spirit animals". I said nothing of "spirit walking", which is, as you said, something entirely different.


Sorry, I misunderstood your post. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Spooger]

mysteryperfecta said:
As it stands, with my very limited knowledge of the feature, it sounds problematic.



That's the issue, though. We've had a month or so to consider the problems - HH and 3DR have had years and years.

I wouldn't be surprised if members of the HH team read this and think 'oh yeah, remember when we had that problem back in 2003?'

[Gryph]

Here are several quotes by George Broussard that I read at Shacknews:


And the game still supports quicksave, of course. But half the time you die, then you go to the land of the dead and you kill wraiths, and you're back to playing where you died in no time. You still get to kill things and it's very action oriented.




In most games you just quickload and your penatly is waiting 10 seconds for the load to happen. That's not much of a penalty, unless you factor in the time from the las case game. I'm not sure I know anyone that liked dying and being 3 minutes back from the last save.

This is similar, but you spend less time re-treading old ground and watching a loading bar.




It only takes a few seconds. Quicker than a quickload lots of times, and that's assuming you have a quickload *exactly* where you left off, to begin with.




As stated, you can still quicksave/load anytime you want.



You can find all those quotes in this thread: http://www.shacknews.com/ja.zz?id=10055733

[Viper Knight]

This is what I call something fresh compared to the common trend of first person shooters. I am looking forward to see how Prey will deal with these elements that are usually given very little thought. That's not to say that I'd want all shooters to have this death-walking stuff. I especially wouldn't want it in DNF! http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mryuck.gif http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[George Broussard]

*How does this work with the save system? What if I just saved the game 30 seconds ago, and don't mind replaying that small portion of the game? Do I have the option to save my game at any point?


You can quick save/load any time you want. When you die, you can hit quickload, and be taken back X seconds/minutes to where you saved, or just do the DeathWalk sequence (killing a few enemies to return to where you died).


*How long to I have to shoot "spirit animals" before my health is restored and I can return to the real world?


Still being balanced, but the goal is fast (as in 10-15 seconds or so).


*Is this "death walk" going to become monotonous if I'm dying with some frequency? Is it going to become purgatory instead of a respite?


Would you rather quick save constantly, then hit quickload and wait for it to load, then try again? You certainly have that option.


Am I really going to prefer to "death walk" rather than simply replaying the previous section of the game?


It's player choice. You can play any way you want. We aren't forcing anything on you.

[mysteryperfecta]

GB- Thanks for the reply.

If death-walking takes a simliar amount of time as quick loading (similiar in length to Doom 3's?), then the death-walk "level" has to be fairly limited, as to environment, enemies, weapons, etc.

I guess this won't be too much of an issue, as most people don't die that frequently, and the renewed health may actually aid in getting through tougher sequences that would usually require several quickloads (and quickloads back to points where health is nearly depleted, which frustrates an already difficult challenge).

Like I said, I like the idea, for that very reason. I'm just trying to iron out some wrinkles in my own mind about the feature.


Spooger said:
That's the issue, though. We've had a month or so to consider the problems - HH and 3DR have had years and years.



Absolutely. I'm sure that the same issues were raised in the first brainstorming session they had.

[mysteryperfecta]

Here's a new line of questioning. If you "die" and go to the spirit world to "kill" wraiths, presumably, the wraiths do not want to "die" (assuming you can kill something that's already dead). Do they fight back, or could you stay in the spirit world indefinately, standing around? Can the wraiths "kill" you (again)? What happens then?

[Viper Knight]

George Broussard said:
You can quick save/load any time you want.


Does that include saving when your dead?

[Reaper]

Very good questions, boys. I'm wondering if you will only get a small amount of health back? I'm just imagining facing off against a powerful boss, and he's right on top of you, you die, deathwalk hp back, repeat? It could get tedious. I think this is an interesting gameplay mechanic, but I'm not sure if 3DR/HH can nail it the first time around.

[Vexed]

In such a situation you would just load your last save, obviously.

[Steve]

Prey allows saves only at certain points in the game. No, this is not official, but it sure makes a lot of sense given the system of deathwalking.


http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif No http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Well, farcry did the same and it was fine http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Reaper]

This feature seems to quell one of the annoyances of the most shooters, but I am wondering.. How is DNF going to fare against this feature, as his ego works counter to it (ie Duke kills enemies to gain health, not dies to gain health). Maybe he'll just go on a berserk rage that empowers him to kill beyond 0 hp?

[hell-angel]

Viper Knight said:

George Broussard said:
You can quick save/load any time you want.


Does that include saving when your dead?



Finally quicksaving right before you die is no longer a pain in the ass. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif