Laptop - Gaming

[Jerre]

Hi

Within a week I'll be turning 18 and my mother thought about giving me a laptop.

I'm not a harcore gamer, but I do enjoy shooters.
(Like CoD, HL2, DN3D, ... )

In our normal pc we have a ATI Radeon 9800Xt 128mb which makes everything run smooth as hell.
But in practically all the laptops I've looked at, there were ATI Mobility Radeon X600's installed. Some with 128mb, some with 256mb.

Now how does a X600 256mb compare to the 9800 128mb ?

The thing that is most impotant is that it will run the upcoming DNF in full glory. I know it's being develloped on ATI 9600's and 9700's so will the X600 be able to manage that sort of graphics ?

Or is now not really the time for buying a laptop because of big upcoming changes or something like that ??

[Tedski]

Jerre said:
Hi

Within a week I'll be turning 18 and my mother thought about giving me a laptop.

I'm not a harcore gamer, but I do enjoy shooters.
(Like CoD, HL2, DN3D, ... )

In our normal pc we have a ATI Radeon 9800Xt 128mb which makes everything run smooth as hell.
But in practically all the laptops I've looked at, there were ATI Mobility Radeon X600's installed. Some with 128mb, some with 256mb.

Now how does a X600 256mb compare to the 9800 128mb ?

The thing that is most impotant is that it will run the upcoming DNF in full glory. I know it's being develloped on ATI 9600's and 9700's so will the X600 be able to manage that sort of graphics ?

Or is now not really the time for buying a laptop because of big upcoming changes or something like that ??



It's probably difficult to say . The X600 I would assume to be the later generation equivalent of the 9600. Unfortunately, the 'mobile' versions of any graphics cards do not tend to have the same features/speed of the standard ones. Your best bet to find out what they can do is to do a search on Google. Firstly to try and find out how the graphics chip stacks up, then to try and find out how the rest of the setup of the laptop will stack up - performance isn't solely about having the best graphics card available.
As to whether the chip will manage DNF graphics, the answer to that is likely to be yes. However, the question would remain as to how well and how much of DNF graphics it would handle.

[DudeMiester]

EDIT: Forget this, north america only. Sorry.

Need a good laptop, look no further then www.discountlaptops.com (http://www.discountlaptops.com) They have all the latest tech for cheap! I'm serious 1GB DDR II, 2Ghz Centrino, Geforce 6600 128MB, 1900x1200 screen, for like $1750US.

[Phait]

I think it's way too early to wonder about Duke Nukem For(n)ever.

[Jerre]

I'm not even thinking about it, but if I do get a laptop, it must be able to run the game propperly when it comes out.
Thats all.

I was thinkign about a HP Pavilion zd8185EA, it has:
- Intel® Pentium® 4 processor 640 -> 3,2 GHz
- 800-MHz FSB
- 1024 Mb RAM
- Hard Drive 100-Gb
- LightScribe dvd-writer, 2 formats (±R, ±RW)
- 17-inch WXGA+ high-definition BrightView screen at 1440 x 900
- 3D Sound Blaster Pro 16-bits
- ATI MOBILITY RADEON X600 video 256 MB

That's even a tiny bit better dan our desktop pc, (which has only 3GHZ), the rest is exactly the same,
except for the video card.

A thing I noticed is that on the American websites, you can configure the pc to your standards, whilst in Belgium this isn't possible, so we have to go with the model the store supplies.

As for the performance of the X600, I did google, but I didn't get any wiser out of that, that's why I asked it here.

Any opinions ?

[DudeMiester]

Try to get a Pentium M 2Ghz or so, that P4 will kill your battery life and it's no faster then a fast Pentium M.

[Jerre]

Can you please tell me more about this because my knowledge about processors is pretty slim.

How can 2GHz one be equally fast as a 3.2GHz ?
What does the M stand for ?

[avatar_58]

Jerre said:
I'm not even thinking about it, but if I do get a laptop, it must be able to run the game propperly when it comes out.
Thats all.




Then the answer is simple. Don't buy one until the game comes out and we know the specs. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif It can't get any easier than that. Buying a computer now to play a game with no release date isn't too bright.

[DudeMiester]

Jerre said:
How can 2GHz one be equally fast as a 3.2GHz ?
What does the M stand for ?



Because clockspeed means absolutely nothing. There are hundreds of factors that affect a CPU's performance, most of which are way to complex for the average Joe to understand. However, what it really boils down to is how much work the CPU can do per clock tick. If it does a lot of work per clock tick, it doesn't need as many ticks per second (clockspeed), as another CPU that does less work per clock.

So the Pentium M is like the Athlon XP and Athlon 64 in that it does a more work per clock then the P4 does. The P4 really is very inefficent, power hungrey, and runs way too hot. From what I've seen most P4 based laptops only have battery lifes of 1.5h, whereas the same performance P-M can get 5h of life! As for what the M means, it really doesn't mean much. Since it was origionally made for laptops, I guess it could mean "Mobile", but it doesn't really matter.

You could also get AMD's Turion 64 too, it's just about as fast as a P-M, but it had better 64-bit OS support, so if you run Windows x64, it'll probably be faster. It might also be cheaper, not sure though. Either way, whatever you do DO NOT get a P4, and that goes for desktop computers to. On the desktop Athlon64 reigns supreme in nearly every category of usage, similar to how the P-M is better then the P4, only the delta is even greater!

[Kristian Joensen]

Jerre said:
Hi

Within a week I'll be turning 18 and my mother thought about giving me a laptop.

I'm not a harcore gamer, but I do enjoy shooters.
(Like CoD, HL2, DN3D, ... )

In our normal pc we have a ATI Radeon 9800Xt 128mb which makes everything run smooth as hell.
But in practically all the laptops I've looked at, there were ATI Mobility Radeon X600's installed. Some with 128mb, some with 256mb.

Now how does a X600 256mb compare to the 9800 128mb ?

The thing that is most impotant is that it will run the upcoming DNF in full glory. I know it's being develloped on ATI 9600's and 9700's so will the X600 be able to manage that sort of graphics ?

Or is now not really the time for buying a laptop because of big upcoming changes or something like that ??



Well as for DNF's system requirements George said that they use Radeon 9800's to develop DNF along with some Geforce 6800 GT's and Ultra's.

[avatar_58]

DudeMiester said:
Because clockspeed means absolutely nothing. There are hundreds of factors that affect a CPU's performance



This is the reason my AMD FX-53 2.4ghz is by far millions of millions times faster than the puny celeron 2.4 I own, or even the 2.6 p4 laptop we own. Of course, and Intel knows this, people don't realize that and buy pentiums with the highest hertz.... http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/doh.gif

[DudeMiester]

Well not really anymore, that's why intel has switched to model numbers, because they just can't keep cranking the clockspeed higher.

[8IronBob]

DudeMiester said:
Well not really anymore, that's why intel has switched to model numbers, because they just can't keep cranking the clockspeed higher.



Yeah, that's right. Intel really can't get it straight. Right now, I hear that they have the 800 series out for the dual-cores. I wonder how that's gonna go. However, when AMD has their dual-cores, Intel's gonna be low-blown up the wazoo. Wish I would've known that sooner.

[Locnor]

DudeMiester said:

Jerre said:
How can 2GHz one be equally fast as a 3.2GHz ?
What does the M stand for ?



Because clockspeed means absolutely nothing. There are hundreds of factors that affect a CPU's performance, most of which are way to complex for the average Joe to understand. However, what it really boils down to is how much work the CPU can do per clock tick. If it does a lot of work per clock tick, it doesn't need as many ticks per second (clockspeed), as another CPU that does less work per clock.

So the Pentium M is like the Athlon XP and Athlon 64 in that it does a more work per clock then the P4 does. The P4 really is very inefficent, power hungrey, and runs way too hot. From what I've seen most P4 based laptops only have battery lifes of 1.5h, whereas the same performance P-M can get 5h of life! As for what the M means, it really doesn't mean much. Since it was origionally made for laptops, I guess it could mean "Mobile", but it doesn't really matter.

You could also get AMD's Turion 64 too, it's just about as fast as a P-M, but it had better 64-bit OS support, so if you run Windows x64, it'll probably be faster. It might also be cheaper, not sure though. Either way, whatever you do DO NOT get a P4, and that goes for desktop computers to. On the desktop Athlon64 reigns supreme in nearly every category of usage, similar to how the P-M is better then the P4, only the delta is even greater!




Clockspeed means nothing when you compare an AMD processor to an Intel processor.

When you compare an Intel to Intel processor. Clockspeed DOES matter.

Basically.....


Intel® Pentium M Processor has a 2MB level 2 cache which makes up for the slower clockspeed of the "full" P4.

http://www.intel.com/products/processor/pentiumm/index.htm

The P4 HyperThread has a 1 MB cache.

The P4 has a 512 KB cache

http://www.intel.com/products/processor/mobilepentium4/index.htm


If you are going to play games, I would get a P4...if you really want to go the Intel route.


Or you can go the AMD route. You can get this for about $1750.00 at http://www.cyberpowersystem.com/

Not too bad of a mobile system.


AMD™ Mobile Athlon™ 64 Processor 3400+ with AMD PowerNow!™ Technology
• 1600MHz System Bus Using HyperTransport™ Technology
• 1024 PC3200 DDR400 Dual channel MEMORY
• 80 GB Ultra ATA100 Hard Drive
• ATI Mobility Radeon 9700 128MB Graphic Chip (M11) Video
• 17" WSXGA Wide-Screen TFT Display 1680x1050 Pixels
• 8x DVD-ROM/ 24x CDRW Combo Drive
• 10/100 Network Card & 56K V.92 Modem
• Wireless 802.11G 54Mbps Networking
• 5.1 Surround Sound
• 3-in-1 Built-in Media Reader
• 1 Firewire IEEE 1394 & 3 USB 2.0 Ports
• 1 PCMCIA Type II Slot
• Weight only 8.5 Lbs
• Dimension: 15.5"W x 10.8"Dx1.6"H
• Microsoft Window XP Home Edition
• 1 Year Onsite Service plus 24/7 Tech support
• 3 Year Parts Warranty and Lifetime Tech support
• Free Carrying Case

[Kevin Wolff]

Clockspeed means nothing when you compare an AMD processor to an Intel processor.

When you compare an Intel to Intel processor. Clockspeed DOES matter.

Basically.....

Intel® Pentium M Processor has a 2MB level 2 cache which makes up for the slower clockspeed of the "full" P4.


Hah! Utterly wrong, on all points except the first.

The Pentium M is NOT at all like the Pentium 4. It's a modified P3 architecture, which is more efficient than the P4. Yes there's more cache, but that's far from the reason for the speed difference. The M is simply a much better chip.

[Locnor]

Kevin Wolff said:

Clockspeed means nothing when you compare an AMD processor to an Intel processor.

When you compare an Intel to Intel processor. Clockspeed DOES matter.

Basically.....

Intel® Pentium M Processor has a 2MB level 2 cache which makes up for the slower clockspeed of the "full" P4.


Hah! Utterly wrong, on all points except the first.

The Pentium M is NOT at all like the Pentium 4. It's a modified P3 architecture, which is more efficient than the P4. Yes there's more cache, but that's far from the reason for the speed difference. The M is simply a much better chip.



I would agree that the Pentium M is a better processor. I never said that it was not. I am just not sure it is always the best processor for gaming. Depends on what Pentium M processor you have.

Tomshardware did a test recently of the Pentium M vs. the P4s.

In most cases the fastest Pentium Ms beat out the P4s.
Clock speed does matter in this case. Maybe I am not making myself clear.

Read the article for yourself. http://www.tomshardware.com/cpu/20050525/index.html

Personally, I run AMD machines. I have no desire or reason to change that. If you like Intel, then good for you.

[Tedades]

Thats why they have MIPS/FLOPS tests.

[DudeMiester]

Oh when you have the exact same CPU design it does matter to some degree. But the designs of CPUs are so varied, even in the same family of CPUs, that it generally is useless. Personally, when I'm looking for a CPU, the clockspeed is the last thing I'm concerned about. My point is, clockspeed is far more trivial an issue then most people realise.

[Kevin Wolff]

In most cases the fastest Pentium Ms beat out the P4s.
Clock speed does matter in this case. Maybe I am not making myself clear.


But which P4s did it beat? You're not gonna get a PM 1.6 and have it beat P4s running at 3.4. There's a scale. I bet that same 1.6 PM would beat like a P4 at 2.6 or 2.8 - but they don't benchmark those anymore.

[8IronBob]

Locnor said:

DudeMiester said:

Jerre said:
How can 2GHz one be equally fast as a 3.2GHz ?
What does the M stand for ?



Because clockspeed means absolutely nothing. There are hundreds of factors that affect a CPU's performance, most of which are way to complex for the average Joe to understand. However, what it really boils down to is how much work the CPU can do per clock tick. If it does a lot of work per clock tick, it doesn't need as many ticks per second (clockspeed), as another CPU that does less work per clock.

So the Pentium M is like the Athlon XP and Athlon 64 in that it does a more work per clock then the P4 does. The P4 really is very inefficent, power hungrey, and runs way too hot. From what I've seen most P4 based laptops only have battery lifes of 1.5h, whereas the same performance P-M can get 5h of life! As for what the M means, it really doesn't mean much. Since it was origionally made for laptops, I guess it could mean "Mobile", but it doesn't really matter.

You could also get AMD's Turion 64 too, it's just about as fast as a P-M, but it had better 64-bit OS support, so if you run Windows x64, it'll probably be faster. It might also be cheaper, not sure though. Either way, whatever you do DO NOT get a P4, and that goes for desktop computers to. On the desktop Athlon64 reigns supreme in nearly every category of usage, similar to how the P-M is better then the P4, only the delta is even greater!




Clockspeed means nothing when you compare an AMD processor to an Intel processor.

When you compare an Intel to Intel processor. Clockspeed DOES matter.

Basically.....


Intel® Pentium M Processor has a 2MB level 2 cache which makes up for the slower clockspeed of the "full" P4.

http://www.intel.com/products/processor/pentiumm/index.htm

The P4 HyperThread has a 1 MB cache.

The P4 has a 512 KB cache

http://www.intel.com/products/processor/mobilepentium4/index.htm


If you are going to play games, I would get a P4...if you really want to go the Intel route.


Or you can go the AMD route. You can get this for about $1750.00 at http://www.cyberpowersystem.com/

Not too bad of a mobile system.


AMD™ Mobile Athlon™ 64 Processor 3400+ with AMD PowerNow!™ Technology
• 1600MHz System Bus Using HyperTransport™ Technology
• 1024 PC3200 DDR400 Dual channel MEMORY
• 80 GB Ultra ATA100 Hard Drive
• ATI Mobility Radeon 9700 128MB Graphic Chip (M11) Video
• 17" WSXGA Wide-Screen TFT Display 1680x1050 Pixels
• 8x DVD-ROM/ 24x CDRW Combo Drive
• 10/100 Network Card & 56K V.92 Modem
• Wireless 802.11G 54Mbps Networking
• 5.1 Surround Sound
• 3-in-1 Built-in Media Reader
• 1 Firewire IEEE 1394 & 3 USB 2.0 Ports
• 1 PCMCIA Type II Slot
• Weight only 8.5 Lbs
• Dimension: 15.5"W x 10.8"Dx1.6"H
• Microsoft Window XP Home Edition
• 1 Year Onsite Service plus 24/7 Tech support
• 3 Year Parts Warranty and Lifetime Tech support
• Free Carrying Case



If I'm not mistaken, the 500 series of the P4 HTs have 1 MB Cache, and the 600 carries a 2 MB L2 Cache, which, sort of makes the 600 series of P4s the better set, since it can support 64-bit applications. The 600 series was developed to "try" to get back at AMD's 64-bit Athlon, however, the Intel FSB is still half of what AMD's FSB carries. Intel's FSB = 800 MHz, AMD's FSB = 1.6 GHz. It's the clockspeed, the FSB, and the L2 cache that make up the processor's full speed and performance, don't underestimate that (of course, that FSB is for desktops, expect about half that FSB speed for a laptop).