Are these speakers any good? [Archive]

Jeff

06-11-2005, 07:48 PM

That's not a lot of total power. You see, that might be 90 watts divided by 7, including the sub woofer.

On my THX 5.1 system, I've got 280 watts of total system power (560 watts peak power). A 100 watt sub, 35 watt front and back speakers, and a 39 watt center channel.

However, it is 5.1, so it wouldn't be for you. Do a search for 7.1 speakers and ask around. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

maximan

06-11-2005, 07:53 PM

Thing is I'm on a budget, and probably dont have more than $100 to spend. Thanks for the reply though http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

EDIT: Thing is, there aren't many 7.1 Speaker sets, and the next step up from those I can find is around $400... http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif

EDIT AGAIN: Plus, with the low wattage, the room I'm using these in is about 10 feet by 15 feet, so will this provide enough sound for that small of a space?

DudeMiester

06-11-2005, 11:01 PM

Wattage is hardly the only consideration. It's the same as the clockspeed non-sense with CPUs. What's far more important is the amount of noise and distortion the speaker produces. The is affected by things like the quality of the internal amp, the drivers (the actual speaker part), the speaker body, etc... Then there's also its dynamic range. You need to get good coverage of the highs, mediums and lows, and almost always this means a speaker that has independant drivers specialised for each type of sound. These are the two most important things to consider when looking for speakers. A 2.1 speaker set with a clean and large range of sound is far better then a high wattage 7.1 hunk of junk.

However, you arn't likely to find the information you need at the manufacturer's website, because often times the speakers suck donkey balls, and they basically lie about their specifications. For example, Bose is certainly the greatest criminal in this regard. You will have to find independant reviews and in person testimonials (forums are good for this), to really get a good idea of quality.

Also, because most people don't even know what good sound is, they don't buy good speakers and fall into the marketer's trap. Hence, actually good speakers are almost universally more expensive, as less people have the wherewithall to buy them. It's a shame really, and all because of companies like Bose, Creative, and dozens more.

Anyways this (http://www.meyersound.com/) company's products come recommended by Yasunori Mitsuda (http://www.cocoebiz.com/mitsuda/english/equipment/procyon_setting.swf), known for his work composing the music in Chrono Trigger and Xenogears. Specifically this speaker line (http://www.meyersound.com/products/studioseries/hd-1/index.htm).

Inanimate Carbon Rod

06-11-2005, 11:32 PM

I dont think max cares about anything in your post.

Any multi channel set under $150 in my opinion, will suck.

DudeMiester

06-11-2005, 11:46 PM

Inanimate Carbon Rod said:
I dont think max cares about anything in your post.

You are probably wrong imho, and even if your right, I'm sure someone will get use out of it. Heck, just penning my thoughts helps me, myself.

maximan

06-12-2005, 12:06 AM

DudeMiester said:

Inanimate Carbon Rod said:
I dont think max cares about anything in your post.

You are probably wrong imho, and even if your right, I'm sure someone will get use out of it. Heck, just penning my thoughts helps me, myself.

I commend you for caring, but I understood not one word in your post http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif. Basically my question is if I should trust those New Egg reviews...there are other speaker sets that are rated very badly.

Plus, the only other sets of 7.1s of I can find are around $300-$400, which I'm not up for. Is there a slightly better option (perhaps around $150?)...I can't find one.

Jeff

06-12-2005, 12:13 AM

Inanimate Carbon Rod said:
Any multi channel set under $150 in my opinion, will suck.

Oh crap. You mean that I made a mistake buying those Z-5300s. Well there goes my $200. Gotta remember those are gaming speakers though. Not movie speakers. I'd get a home theater set if I wanted one of those. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Kevin Wolff

06-12-2005, 12:30 AM

Any multi channel set under $150

Well there goes my $200.

...Huh?

Inanimate Carbon Rod

06-12-2005, 12:31 AM

Jeff you are fine, those are great speakers.

Also, the suggested retail price for those is $199.99 http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif not $150.

Jeff

06-12-2005, 12:38 AM

For some reason when the volume on the remote control goes past the third green light (7 would be on the highest volume setting), they start to scream, as in a really high pitched squealing noise. Maybe that's because I'm running a voice chat program with my microphone turned on. Should turn it off http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif. My brother played WoW on there and no squealing past the third green light. Probably just the mic. That won't hurt the speakers would it?

avatar_58

06-12-2005, 01:09 AM

I own the 5300 logitech speakers and they ARE amazing. Don't let the price fool you. I use them for movies, games and music. All 3 sound perfect (even better than my dvd player setup!)

maximan

06-12-2005, 02:04 AM

avatar_58 said:
I own the 5300 logitech speakers and they ARE amazing. Don't let the price fool you. I use them for movies, games and music. All 3 sound perfect (even better than my dvd player setup!)

So you think those newegg reviews are pretty legit? I also trust a brand like Creative, as I'm pretty sure they're a good reliable brand (?). http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

avatar_58

06-12-2005, 02:20 AM

I wouldn't know. I was going to buy some creative speakers but the logitech z-5300 had more bang for my buck. A powerful 5.1 or a standard 7.1.....seems easy enough to guess. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

maximan

06-12-2005, 02:37 AM

avatar_58 said:
I wouldn't know. I was going to buy some creative speakers but the logitech z-5300 had more bang for my buck. A powerful 5.1 or a standard 7.1.....seems easy enough to guess. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

I don't think I need much power considering how small of a room this is going in and the fact that I don't ever turn things up very loud, as to not disturb anyone (most of my gaming happens around 2 AM http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif)

TBZ

06-12-2005, 01:45 PM

avatar_58 said:
I own the 5300 logitech speakers and they ARE amazing. Don't let the price fool you. I use them for movies, games and music. All 3 sound perfect (even better than my dvd player setup!)

I bought the Z-5500 and I was blown away. My old speakers probably crawled in to the closet in shame http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/bigsmile.gif

DudeMiester

06-12-2005, 02:11 PM

jeffbthomson said:
For some reason when the volume on the remote control goes past the third green light (7 would be on the highest volume setting), they start to scream, as in a really high pitched squealing noise. Maybe that's because I'm running a voice chat program with my microphone turned on. Should turn it off http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif. My brother played WoW on there and no squealing past the third green light. Probably just the mic. That won't hurt the speakers would it?

What you're getting is a feedback look. You don't need to turn the mic off, just in your audio panel, make sure they arn't outputing to your speakers. So you mute the microphone in the volume panel.

As for the NewEgg reviews. Well if you read my post again, you should see what important. If the reviews say the distortion is low (distortion is like static on your TV), and good range (the range of sound it produces accurately), then the speakers are probably decent. If you want to know for you, you need to find specifications and detailed reviews for exact numbers though. You can google to find the definitions for those numbers.

8IronBob

06-13-2005, 06:22 PM

If I could afford them, I would have gone for a Klipsch Surround Sound package. I tried them out once, and they really had that "home theaterish" quality to them. Of course, if it was easy to do, I would have bought a home theater system, and hooked up those type of speakers into my PC. I heard that there were some good home theater systems that had like, 600 - 700 watts of total power. Imagine if they made those type of systems for PCs. Maybe those might do the trick, I'll have to look around to some local shops on the best types of speakers. If there are any 600-watt systems for under $100 - $150, then let me know, those'd be great it they did. I highly doubt that "Home Theater" speakers would work with a PC, tho, that would be asking for too much, I think.

My Creative Inspire P5800s aren't all that shabby, of course, there's a lot better than 70 watt systems out there. For a small shack like mine, if I go anything too powerful, that may turn my house into rubble, which would not be a good thing. Well, that won't really happen, but having too much sound power in a small house, or a small room would not work. From what I hear, the Logitech X-530s were supposed to be a little better than Creative's sound systems, tho, but who's to know, they're both 70-watt systems, and those are only good if you don't have that big of a room or a big house, like my situation.

However, any 5.1 speaker system would work fine in my book, just as long as it's a recognizable manufacturer, and has a good reputation of making quality sound systems, or computer speakers for that matter, are the ones to trust and go with.

Jeff

06-13-2005, 10:23 PM

I had played SWAT 4 with Wamplet and his buddy Gonzo using my Z-5300s. Didn't use the mic, and no problems. Sound was great, although the game wasn't written for 5.1 surround sound. Only 2.1. A lot of games don't have the full support. I know that WoW does, because I was down watching my brother play, and this spell that he cast went all around my little cubicle. It was awesome. I should try a movie or two using the speakers. Or just a TV show on DVD that has 5.1 support.

avatar_58

06-14-2005, 12:15 PM

jeffbthomson said:
I had played SWAT 4 with Wamplet and his buddy Gonzo using my Z-5300s. Didn't use the mic, and no problems. Sound was great, although the game wasn't written for 5.1 surround sound. Only 2.1. A lot of games don't have the full support. I know that WoW does, because I was down watching my brother play, and this spell that he cast went all around my little cubicle. It was awesome. I should try a movie or two using the speakers. Or just a TV show on DVD that has 5.1 support.

Do you have a creative sound card? With my Audigy 2 ZS I have the ability to "upmix" any stereo sound automatically to 5.1 so any games or songs are played with a surround effect. Its not accurate 3d, but it still sounds much better! http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Sir Lemonhead

06-14-2005, 12:47 PM

Spend your money on a great pair of headphones http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

It's not 7.1, but you'd get a really good pair for 100 dollars i'd imagine.

Jeff

06-14-2005, 02:09 PM

avatar_58 said:
Do you have a creative sound card? With my Audigy 2 ZS

Sure do. The Audigy 2 ZS.

avatar_58

06-14-2005, 02:19 PM

Okay goody! http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif I assume you installed the drivers etc? Right click on your creative volume icon (or look in the start menu for the similar program) and open the EAX console. From there goto CMSS 3D and check "enable". Then click on stereo sound and adjust the focus if you want (I have mine set to 34% so that I get the majority of my sound to the front)

This only affects stereo so anything that uses 5.1 will work like its supposed to without any issues.

8IronBob

06-14-2005, 07:22 PM

I notice that the Klipsch ProMedia 5.1, or whatever, is a 500-watt system, but it's over $350 USD for that set, from what I see from some major retailers. At NewEgg.com for the Klipsch set, it would run you about that. I also saw a 470-watt system from Klipsch that was $330. I'm telling you, I know that 500 watts is about as good as 5.1 surround sound systems for PCs can get, but it's really costly for that type of $$$, tho. Klipsch is almost as bad as Bose or Sony with those types of price ranges. I've yet to check out JBL for their surround sounds, if they have any, or Harman-Kardan, or even Altec Lansing for that matter. There's all sorts of speaker brands, but finding the right set at the right price for the right features is a little touchy for me to describe. It all depends on your budget or what type of features you want with your PC speakers.

IgWannA

06-15-2005, 01:27 PM

jeffbthomson said:
That's not a lot of total power. You see, that might be 90 watts divided by 7, including the sub woofer.

On my THX 5.1 system, I've got 280 watts of total system power (560 watts peak power). A 100 watt sub, 35 watt front and back speakers, and a 39 watt center channel.

However, it is 5.1, so it wouldn't be for you. Do a search for 7.1 speakers and ask around. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

90 watts is plenty loud. trust me. as for the creative 7.1 speakers, yeah i guess they'd be alright - won't sound amazing obviously but i'm sure you'll be pretty satisfied with them if you're not an audiophile. if you're willing to go with plain stereo rather than pointless 7.1 then i could recommend much better sounding speakers than any creative ones. when you pay $150 for 7 speakers and a sub, the speakers are obviously not going to sound very good at all - and creative aren't exactly professionals in speaker manufacture. unless you watch movies all the time and really are dying for surround sound (which you hardly even notice anyway, from my experiences) then a good stereo speaker setup like mine can blow you away. but i guess most people these days are pretty happy with average-sounding speakers.

avatar_58

06-15-2005, 01:46 PM

IgWannA said:
90 watts is plenty loud. trust me. as for the creative 7.1 speakers, yeah i guess they'd be alright - won't sound amazing obviously but i'm sure you'll be pretty satisfied with them if you're not an audiophile. if you're willing to go with plain stereo rather than pointless 7.1 then i could recommend much better sounding speakers than any creative ones. when you pay $150 for 7 speakers and a sub, the speakers are obviously not going to sound very good at all - and creative aren't exactly professionals in speaker manufacture. unless you watch movies all the time and really are dying for surround sound (which you hardly even notice anyway, from my experiences) then a good stereo speaker setup like mine can blow you away. but i guess most people these days are pretty happy with average-sounding speakers.

You don't notice surround sound? Then its pretty obvious you've never been to a theater or been treated to a very good 5.1 setup. It can make the difference between immersion and a simple "meh". Doom 3 with surround is just excellent.

maximan

06-15-2005, 07:46 PM

avatar_58 said:

IgWannA said:
90 watts is plenty loud. trust me. as for the creative 7.1 speakers, yeah i guess they'd be alright - won't sound amazing obviously but i'm sure you'll be pretty satisfied with them if you're not an audiophile. if you're willing to go with plain stereo rather than pointless 7.1 then i could recommend much better sounding speakers than any creative ones. when you pay $150 for 7 speakers and a sub, the speakers are obviously not going to sound very good at all - and creative aren't exactly professionals in speaker manufacture. unless you watch movies all the time and really are dying for surround sound (which you hardly even notice anyway, from my experiences) then a good stereo speaker setup like mine can blow you away. but i guess most people these days are pretty happy with average-sounding speakers.

You don't notice surround sound? Then its pretty obvious you've never been to a theater or been treated to a very good 5.1 setup. It can make the difference between immersion and a simple "meh". Doom 3 with surround is just excellent.

Doom 3 is one of the games that's really making me desire surround sound. And to respond to IgWanna, I don't need amazing sound...my current speakers came boxed with my comp, they're some brand I've never heard of, but they work fine. I never turn anything up too loud, and the quality seems perfectly fine to me. As long as the sound they put out isnt noticably muddled or tinny or something, the speakers are fine in my book.

avatar_58

06-15-2005, 08:00 PM

All I know is, a good set of speakers set at the right volume with the lights off and a good soundcard CAN make you jump at some moments. Its that good....

maximan

06-15-2005, 08:36 PM

I just noticed the speakers I was eyeing have Auxillary inputs...what additional things would I be able to plug in through those? If I was able to plug consoles into those, I'd also need to know how to plug the consoles into my monitor (which, sadly, is bigger than my tv), because my tv and monitor are situated at a right angle from each other (as in my computer is on the tall part of the L and my tv is on the bottom part), so that would make the situated wrong for use with the tv.

Thanks for helping out you guys http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

IgWannA

06-16-2005, 07:47 AM

maximan said:
And to respond to IgWanna, I don't need amazing sound...my current speakers came boxed with my comp, they're some brand I've never heard of, but they work fine. I never turn anything up too loud, and the quality seems perfectly fine to me. As long as the sound they put out isnt noticably muddled or tinny or something, the speakers are fine in my book.

well in that case you might as well get a $50 set of POS speakers. kind of baffles me why people don't care about sound fidelity these days. in fact it's making music worse than it used to be because producers are completely overcompressing music which ruins the dynamics of songs. in fact i'll show you an example (see attached image, which is Galvanise by the chemical brothers - straight from CD)

in response to avatar_58, of all the times i've gone to the cinema, i haven't noticed anything spectacular about surround sound. yeah it's there but most of the time the side and back channels are the same as the front ones, and they're also really quiet so i never really notice them. maybe i'm biased because i like good quality speakers to listen to music with and to produce music with, but unless you're prepared to spend $2000 upwards on a good set of surround speakers, each with the quality of a good studio speaker, then i see it as a waste of money. when you buy 8 speakers for $150, that's less than $9 on each speaker, and since the subwoofer costs the most by far the satellite speakers really cost around $5 each. i doubt you could get a good sound out a tiny $5 plastic speaker. but i guess people are willing to sacrifice quality for quantity.

avatar_58

06-16-2005, 09:47 AM

http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/doh.gif

Perhaps you'd like to come over and listen to music or watch the Lord of the Rings on my z-5300 5.1 then? They have plenty of power and quality to blow you away. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

As for the side and back being quiet, I can adjust mine. I turn my back speakers louder so that I can hear them from my chair. When I hear gun fire in games not only is it enough to wake the neighbors, I can tell where the hell it came from.

DudeMiester

06-16-2005, 12:20 PM

Avatar, have you ever heard sound from a high quality speaker system at all? Until you have, you can't judge. I can tell you there's a big difference.

Inanimate Carbon Rod

06-16-2005, 12:46 PM

I know what you are talking about Dudemeister, but the speakers you are referencing about start off at about 300+ for each individual speaker. For most of us, the benefit would not outweigh the added cost.

IgWannA

06-16-2005, 03:23 PM

avatar_58 said:
http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/doh.gif

Perhaps you'd like to come over and listen to music or watch the Lord of the Rings on my z-5300 5.1 then? They have plenty of power and quality to blow you away. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

heh, i'd rather listen to music on real speakers, not creative or labtec's, sorry http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif you might think your speakers are good, and i'm sure they're very listenable but until you listen to a really good pair of proper studio quality speakers costing $700 upwards and a similarly priced amplifier, you can't really comment on speaker quality. and volume really isn't a factor to take into account when buying and comparing speakers. mine are rated at 90 watts RMS (each) but i never use anywhere near that because my ears would assplode.

8IronBob

06-16-2005, 08:49 PM

Well, having a small house or a small room, as I said, you don't want to have such a powerful, booming sound system. The more watts your sound system has, the bigger the room or bigger the house is recommended for that. So, the sound system that I have, which is I believe 72 - 74 watts (Creative Inspire 5800 5.1), should be just fine for a room of about 12' x 16' x 10' like mine. I believe those measurements were right, well, it doesn't matter.

Audio wattage vs. real estate that you are using that sound system in, well, there is a science behind the size of a room, the acoustics level that bounces around in that room, and the volume of the speakers, as well as the total power of the speakers. Just try to add that all up, and find out for yourself what speaker system could please you.

However, for a 500+ watt system, you may need a nice big rec room, or a great/living room for that high of power. Anything like a 150-watt, those could do well in a medium-sized media room/home theater. There is a little rule of thumb in both science and math involved in measuring what type of sound quality or volume quantity will work for different parts of a house, or different sizes of rooms or houses that sound can travel. That's worth thinking about, trust me.

groovie

06-17-2005, 10:34 AM

I have the 5.1 version of those speakers and after getting them home I am not impressed with the bass that comes from the subwoofer. It sounds cheap muffled and kinda boomy. I also dont like the way the bass control just raises and lowers the bass. Its difficult to explain but it's kind of like on an old AM radio.

I recently bought a new sub for my home theater and used the old 10 inch sub with my PC. its a 200 watt sony and it sounds great. I like the fact that I can select the crossover frequency now. Makes helicopters, explosions and machine guns hit you in the chest.

Its difficult to listen to speakers in a store environment they never have them setup in a place where you can get a good idea how they will sound at home.

I regret buying this set. I could have used the money i paid for a better set.

my 2 cents

avatar_58

06-17-2005, 10:53 AM

DudeMiester said:
Avatar, have you ever heard sound from a high quality speaker system at all? Until you have, you can't judge. I can tell you there's a big difference.

Actually I have. I've heard all kinds of high quality systems with amplifiers. Thats why I say my speaker set isn't that bad. For a PC set I have yet to hear something better for the money I spent. Along with 5.1 I think it was a great deal too. So what if some benchmark shows a bunch of numbers, to me its what you hear that counts.

For gaming I suggest a good 5.1 over a 2.1 anyday. I've heard the high quality 2.1 sets and they aren't that great for the price. Lets not kid ourselves....for quality you want a stereo system thats not attached to the pc. However for one that is the logitech z-5300 is very good. After all, most of the quality is going to depend on one's sound card and not the speakers (to a point, $50 speakers will always sound like $50) EAX 4 with 5.1 can make all the difference in the world with games.

IgWannA

06-17-2005, 11:37 AM

groovie said:
I also dont like the way the bass control just raises and lowers the bass. Its difficult to explain but it's kind of like on an old AM radio.

hehe, generally the bass control (on budget speakers) is supposed to raise and lower the bass http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif is there any other way? except of course on a proper sub where you can change the crossover frequency and do a bunch of other stuff.

avatar_58

06-17-2005, 11:43 AM

IgWannA said:
hehe, generally the bass control (on budget speakers) is supposed to raise and lower the bass http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif is there any other way? except of course on a proper sub where you can change the crossover frequency and do a bunch of other stuff.

Unless of course you look into the creative utilities that come with the audigy 2 zs. They have quite a few advanced things in there regardless of your speakers. Its not professional or for major audiophiles (nitpickers) but it does the job.

I generally keep my sub low, I'm not a lover of large booming base in music....no BOOM sha BOOM in my house http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif Not my type of music.

groovie

06-17-2005, 12:01 PM

IgWannA said:

groovie said:
I also dont like the way the bass control just raises and lowers the bass. Its difficult to explain but it's kind of like on an old AM radio.

hehe, generally the bass control (on budget speakers) is supposed to raise and lower the bass http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif is there any other way? except of course on a proper sub where you can change the crossover frequency and do a bunch of other stuff.

Like I said it was kind if hard to explain. Guess its just the fact that the this sub dosn't cross over at low enough of a frequeny. I wonder if installing a cap or a bass coil in it would help at all.

IgWannA

06-18-2005, 08:58 AM

well on computer speakers (the small satellite types) you generally want quite a high crossover frequency, around 500hz because the small cones and drivers of the satellites can't dig down much below 500. but i kinda think i know what you mean - there's too much mid bass because the crossover is too high and the sub handles the high-lows better than the low-lows. speakers with bigger cones (6 inch or more) can go down as far as 50Hz (as with mine) so you don't even need a sub, unless of course you love bass http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif getting an active (powered) sub takes some strain off the main speakers because they don't need to go below, say 200Hz, letting them handle the mids better. right now i have my 8 inch sub plugged in as well as my main speakers (with 6 inch cones and 1 inch tweeters) but it doesn't really add much to the sound unless i turn it up a lot, in which case it just muddies the sound up. but it's good for parties where you just want louder bass and don't care so much about sound quality. i'd really like a nice 10 or 12 inch sub with a crossover knob, which i'd set to about 150-200. but i think before i get a sub i'd get better speakers and better amp.

Jeff

06-21-2005, 12:48 PM

I had tried watching The X-Files: Fight the Future on the Z-5300s, and it was pretty good sound. I probably don't have the speakers pointed the right way, but when the helicopter that dropped the Cigarette Smoking Man off, I could hear the rotor blades in the back 2 speakers as well as the front ones. Maybe I do have it set up right. I'll have to read up on it.

avatar_58

06-21-2005, 02:46 PM

jeffbthomson said:
I had tried watching The X-Files: Fight the Future on the Z-5300s, and it was pretty good sound. I probably don't have the speakers pointed the right way, but when the helicopter that dropped the Cigarette Smoking Man off, I could hear the rotor blades in the back 2 speakers as well as the front ones. Maybe I do have it set up right. I'll have to read up on it.

Not sure, haven't seen it. Make sure your matrix button is off....as it has odd effects on surround sound (its meant for stereo but the EAX config does a better job)