Game making dude wanna be

[Shlubalubs]

Im interested in programming, pacifically game wise. Just one problem: i dont know where to start. I was looking around for game programing for dummies and found this:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?V...bayphotohosting (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=3522&item=5197431615&rd=1&ssPageName=WD1V#ebayphotohosting)
Im none too sure wether the book is any good plus it sais summit about a basic knowledge in C language even though im less fluent with it than i am with french. If any folks can point me in the right & good direction, it would be much appreciated

[The Chiropractor]

Although you are interested getting straight into game programming, I would suggest that you become acquainted with standard programming techniques first and learn proper methodologies for software design rather than diving into writing complicated mathematical libraries and implementing functionalities of things like UI, physics, Graphics libs and anything else you may need in a single application.

I would recommend you first get acquainted with a language such as C++ for your development. I say this because if you are a good programmer then a lot of the concepts will be familiar to you when you want to design something and especiallly when you find yourself in a situation of turning that design into an actual implementation.

Off the top of my head I can recommend Stroustrup's own
book on C++ but also I highly recommend Bruce Eckel's
book titled Thinking in C++. You should be able to search
for this on amazon and perhaps even on gamedev.

Once you get the hang of C++ and all it's associated concepts, I would then start to learn some API's and do
some basic screwing around with them. Learning OpenGL
would probably not be the best thing: I would learn to
write system wrappers such as a library to manage open
files in your program using the system API. Once you have
become familiar with general programming and in particular
working with libraries you should then simply apply these
concepts along with the ones you learn by writing your
pwn libraries into further development.

Game programming is moreso simply a different application
of general programming and although you have a lot of
books with the title "Game Programming......", it is best
to not skip the concepts that a lot of game programming
type books do. I would seriously consider learning the
language you want to thoroughly and then move on to
learning specific concepts that are directly applied to
games programming such as linear algebra, and simple
differential calculus. Once you become familiar with the
science of writing software, the rest will simply be the
fact that you need to learn a specific concept such as
how you can transform a 3d point into a 2d one, or how
you can check for a collision between two objects, or
how you can represent your game world in the most
effecient way possible, and then by applying that with the
knowledge you have about programming, your life will
be a lot easier because you understand exactly what is
happening rather than having some code and trying to
second guess exactly what it's doing, and more importantly what you have to do.

[John]

Plus, if he's never programmed before, he can always start at the bottom. Learning Pascal and Python is very easy; after you make afew simple programs there you can move onto more complex code.

[clayasaurus]

When I first started to learn programming, I heard about python. I tried to learn it from websites but I didn't know the basic programming techniques so it never worked and never made sense to me.

My advice is to pick up this book http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/det...nce&s=books (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0672322226/ref=pd_sxp_f/002-0918694-7325601?v=glance&s=books)

It is a great book for beginners and gives you a very solid start into C programming, make sure to do as many of the 'projects' he gives you as you can. After you learn C, it is easy to teach yourself C++ (once you wrap your mind around classes). After you learn C++ through C, you will have a unique ability to pick up any other language by just reading some docs on the internet. Goodluck.

[Shlubalubs]

Heh hey, big thanks to y'all for locating the start of the rope for me. I doubt i will be able to pull this off as im not particularly gifted in this general area, ill settle for an electronic repairman where ive show some talent. But hey, if i can do it, it would be mega swell and ill be chuffed as its always been a real dream for me

[Tedades]

[Black-White-Mode]
Everyone can create a game, even a n00b.

The thing is, it cant be a computer game http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dopefish.gif

Thats why their is a difference between game-creating and game-programming.
A game-creator is mostly a n00b that thinks weird, and likes painting and reading.
As for the game-programmer, he's l33t at C/C++/C# or even ASM and can create major effects with OpenGL and Direct3D, but hates reading or touching a pencil.

Thats why Doom3 is l33t C++ but the game isnt diffent from previous Doom versions, and some n00b came up with social gaming (dont know any names of those games, (myst)URU-fan-games).

So if you want to actually MAKE a game, you sure have to be l33t at C/C++, because Direct3d SDK is in C/C++.
If you want a game, you could also make it in HTML or even simpler languages that are good enough for your needs (or hire a l33t programmer).

[/Black-White-Mode]

[Cerberus_e]

I started with html, evolved to javascript, C++ and visual basic.
the only languages I really have a decent knowledge of are HTML/CSS, javascript, and visual basic.
my knowledge of C++ is very basic.
but when I finish every game I want to finish I'll probably do some sidescroller with the tutorials recommended in my thread.

so maybe start with basic things, like html (not a programming language, but it's a start)?
javascript has something that looks similar to C++.

ok, I admit, I didn't start with HTML, I started with duke3d .con scripting http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Tedades]

I started programming on my C64 in BASIC, that was fun (you could save your work on a tape).
Then I got a game-make-program, dont know the name, and I made some test programs (nothing big though).

After that I got visual basic 6, and made some stupid stuff.
Then Dark Basic, that I really recommened for any n00b want to make a game (its not hard to learn), it has native directX support and almost does everything for you (made cool stuff with that).

After all that I learned pascal, then obvious went to Delphi.
Now I work in C++ (after learning C).
And I still did not make a game !

I do have lots of designs on paper, but not made yet.
If I do have time, I'll give a try.



I also hear that FLASH games are 'easy' to make, but I didnt try yet.
Dark Basic is also a nice program to create a game.

[Kristian Joensen]

"After all that I learned pascal, then obvious went to Delphi.
Now I work in C++ (after learning C)." Why would anyone ever move from Delphi/Pascal to anything else ?

It is much easier than anything else on this very planet. Delphi is so much more common sense/intuitive than anything else, especially C/C++ since it uses real word, and begin end block instead of those ***** braces. Pascal/Delphi code is actually readable. And even non-computer savvy people can potentially learn it.

But with C/C++ you basicly get the impression that they where designed to be hard to learn. It is like the designers where thinking: "How can we make this programming language as ***** hard as ***** possible to learn, so we can make live as ***** miserable as ***** possible for those wanting to ***** learn how to ***** progam."

[DudeMiester]

I could say the same for the nordic languages, and certainly french.

Personally, I find C++ to be very easy to program in, even with it's rough spots. The thing is C++ is so flexible that 9 times out of 10 you can adapt the language to solve those issues.

[Vexed]

I don't like pascal so much because of the clutter you get with the "real world" words and other stuff. You can't tell the difference between { and }?

Anyway, I'd start out with a simple language that allows you to script but also allows you to go deeper eventually if you wanted too.

I personally started out with macromedia shockwave director and it's script language "Lingo", but not by choice. Turns out it was a pretty decent step, though.

[Kristian Joensen]

Vexed said:
I don't like pascal so much because of the clutter you get with the "real world" words and other stuff. You can't tell the difference between { and }?



Yes I can tell the difference. It is just that I absolutely hate reading C/C++ source code. I have been known to get a headache from reading C/C++ source code and I ALWAYS get extremely confused when reading it.

"Begin" and "End" wheren't the only real word I was reffering too. There is also "Procedure", "Function", "Uses", etc. Also another thing I like very much is Delphi's IDE and VCL/CLX. Wich make programming GUI applications much much easier.

I also find Pascal/Delphi much easier too learn. While still having the same flexibilty to learn procedural programming first and then move on to object oriented programming. Just like with learning regular C first and then moving onto C++.

Also Delphi has got strong typing, instead of weak typing. I would recommend anyone who is about to get started programming to get either Delphi or Free Pascal + Lazarus if they can't afford Delphi and/or don't want to pirate it.

[Vexed]

What do you mean by "strong typing" ?

Delphi/pascal would be a good language to start with, I agree. I'm actually working on a little pascal/delphi project right now. Maybe I'll post it on this forum once I've made more progress.

I guess because I started out with C++ all the extra words you need to type seems kind of redundant to me.

[Tedades]

I work a lot easier in Delphi, but if I want to make something not Windows I'm stuck.
(I could try Kylix for Linux)

I have to use C/C++ for those things.

Although I work faster in Delphi, way faster.

[Kristian Joensen]

"(I could try Kylix for Linux)" there is also Free Pascal + Lazarus. Lazarus is an ide for Free Pascal wich is basicly identical to Delphi. Free pascal has Delphi compatibilty to an etent. Free Pascal is a croos platform , free software slf-hosting pascal compiler. It supports atleast, Dos, Windows, Mac OS X and Linux.


Vexed said:
What do you mean by "strong typing" ?



here (http://dict.die.net/strong%20typing/) is a definition. Strong typing means that you can't ever(or atleast with very few exceptions) assing a value of one type to a variable of another type.

[Tedades]

Kristian Joensen said:
"(I could try Kylix for Linux)" there is also Free Pascal + Lazarus. Lazarus is an ide for Free Pascal wich is basicly identical to Delphi. Free pascal has Delphi compatibilty to an etent. Free Pascal is a croos platform , free software slf-hosting pascal compiler. It supports atleast, Dos, Windows, Mac OS X and Linux.


Vexed said:
What do you mean by "strong typing" ?



here (http://dict.die.net/strong%20typing/) is a definition. Strong typing means that you can't ever(or atleast with very few exceptions) assing a value of one type to a variable of another type.



I like weak typing, but thats because I'm a bit lazy and do stuff like:

int A = 1;
float B;

B = A;

You should do stuff like IntToFloat(A), its just nicer but if you arent forced to do it I won't.

[Kristian Joensen]

Cerberus_e said:
ok, I admit, I didn't start with HTML, I started with duke3d .con scripting http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif



Actually I think this is a great piece of advice. Start with something like Con scripts, QuakeC or UnrealScript. Then you can start simple yet still start imediately with game development.

Even if it at first just involves changing simple stuff like ammo amounts etc. You can always later move on to harder stuff like AI opponent/npc programming while still using those same language.

Then you can move on to some "real" programming language like Delphi/Pascal, C/C++ or maybe C#. Ofcourse I would recommend Delphi/Pascal for a beginner, actually I would recommend it to everyone.

But especially the beginner. On the other hand when it comes to game development Delphi is rarely used. But it is indeed possible to use it for those purposes too.

You can make games using Delphi both OpenGl based games and DirectX based ones. OpenGl is basicly the same wheter yo use Delphi or some other programming language.

If you want make cross platform games and/or can't afford Delphi I would recommend Free Pascal + Lazarus. If you can afford Delphi you can also compile your Linux versions using Kylix.

It IS possible to make progams that are compilable with BOTH Delphi and Free Pascal.

[Vexed]

Maybe I can help you promote Delphi/Pascal a little, soon http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[Sayantan]

Kristian Joensen said:
You can make games using Delphi both OpenGl based games and DirectX based ones.



Absolutely. I'm sure you've seen this (http://www.delphi3d.net) already.

BTW, IMHO you should try using the Genesis3d engine. Modifying things rather than creating from scratch is often a good thing to start with.

[Destroyer]

you might want to learn C++ first.