SiN problem - surgical chemical plant - part 2

[Cerberus_e]

<font color="red">(needless to say, this contains SiN spoilers for those who haven't played it yet)</font>

localisation: chemical factory plant - part 2 (the level after the stealth mission, I'm wearing my yellow suit now)

problem: the screen shakes like it would do on the build engine when there is a quake. it keeps shaking, until I'm dead (like some invisible force is crushing me)

occurance: I found 2 places in the level where the problem occurs. when you go out of the elevator, turn left, right, open the door, right, open the door, there is a staircase to my left.
when I'm almost down the staircase, the problem occurs.
I tried jumping off the staircase, immediately to the ground, it also occurs.
I also found another way, by turning off the fan systems, go in the ventilation shaft, then stepping out in one room or another, and then jumping into a hole in the ground, where the ventilation is (but shutdown now). well, the problem occurs when I jump in that hole, and almost reached the ground.

spreading of the disease: there are other people with the EXACT same problem like me, I found a google result leading to the official ritualistic forums... right here (http://www.ritualistic.com/forums/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB10&Number=158857&Main=158655)

unacceptable remedy: cheating, like they recommend the other guy in that thread. because there has to be a way around this problem, I'm sure of it. after all, there are so much others could play this without problem.
it doesn't hurt to ask this, if someone knows they can tell me, otherwise I'll have to cheat http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

EDIT: I patched the game to 1.11

[Dave-ros]

Edited to conceal possible spoiler for people like Cerberus who are only part-way through the game:
<table><tr><th><font size="-1">Spoiler below:</font></th></tr><tr><td class="spoiler">There was a place in the Darwin Chambers level where I had to cheat if I'd previously blown up a pipe that emptied the acid pool thing (with the rotating bars) - after a diversion to the reprocessing plant, it'd put me back ready for Darwin Chamber No.3, but it wouldn't open, so I had to noclip through the door...</td></tr></table>

Basically, the game's buggy, but still great http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif Don't know how to help you, though, as I haven't played it much on this system (having played it to death before, and being put off by the jelly effect that's now obvious) - but I'm sure it is indeed to do with modern systems, as it never happened on my old Win98 machine!

Actually... the only way I can make it work on my modern computer is with the 1.11 patch, but that made it unstable on my old system and thus I didn't use it, so is it the patch causing it somehow?

If necessary, I'll play SiN non-stop through the night to recreate your problem and find a solution!!!* Or, is there a cheat to skip me to the appropriate level and test it out?

(*Not gonna happen http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif)

[Cerberus_e]

Dave-ros said:
Win98



as soon as I saw you were looking at my thread in "who's on line", I knew you were going to help, like always http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
maybe I can just move my savegame to my win98 machine, beat the level, and move it back to my XP machine to continue playing? http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
I chose my XP machine above my 98 one because I like this one better http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

if you really want to see the bug download my savegames at http://users.skynet.be/cerberuse/save.zip
but I will try it on my win 98 machine tomorrow, so it's not necessary.

and you mentioned another bug which I skimmed through because I didn't want to spoil it (that's not the first time, you also did it with quake http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tinyted.gif).
does that mean I will encounter other plot-stopping bugs (making the game unbeatable) if I continue playing it on my XP machine? without even knowing it? (a door that doesn't open is something you don't know if it doesn't happen and can make you keep searching for the way out http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif)

[Dave-ros]

I just played the first level and got the exact bug you're talking about - the room to the side of the vault (i.e. where you have to go to avoid the machine guns), where a couple of baddies abseil down from the skylight. I got stuck walking on the broken glass and had the earthquake effect, and then died for no apparent reason http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif Didn't even have the chance to tell the bloke to run to safety and listen to him say "Ooh, I'm saved!" http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I think it's similar to the lift bug in the original Half-Life, where you sometimes couldn't get off a lift when it finished moving because a rounding error or something similar had caused your feet to be "inside" the lift. Nothing I know of to cure it, other than... avoiding the place that causes it? Is that possible or practical?

Argh, have you not got through SiN before? This is your first time playing? Damn, I'll just go back and spoiler-ise that bit, sorry http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/redface.gif But yes, the bug I mentioned happened on my old computer, not on my current system...

Edit: the earthquake-death bug didn't happen the last time I played SiN on this machine, so it might be intermittent or only caused by walking in specific places!

[Cerberus_e]

no I can't avoid the place with the fan, and I have a subtle feeling I will have to backtrack via the staircase that has the problem http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

and yes it's also my first time, I am a retro-modern gamer, I play modern games, and also retro games and it doesn't bother me http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
I can even enjoy sidescrollers from 1991 I never played before http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

tomorrow, I'll try it on win98

[Dave-ros]

I would recommend you restart the level and try again - maybe even restart from a save before the start of the level. I actually think I may have had similar problems before with a staircase... but it's late and I can't remember clearly http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif Certainly the only show-stopper I ever had on every run-through was the one I just spoiler-tagged http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

I do remember the level you're on about: I spent ages trying to look up the secretary's skirt... oh Gawd, did I just admit that? http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/redface.gif http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Cerberus_e]

Dave-ros said:
oh Gawd, did I just admit that? http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/redface.gif http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif



yes.
I spent 5 minutes! http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Cerberus_e]

when I loaded my savegame, I had the same problem (on my 98 PC).
instead of loading the savegame I always make at the beginning of a level, I loaded the autosave instead, and didn't have the problem (because the autosave saves before the loading screen, not after loading the level, so there has to have gone something wrong while loading the level?).
I know it saves before the loading screen because I see the level intro screen with a small description of the story what is happening and what's ahead http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif when I load the savegame I saved myself it only shows a standard SiN logo screen.
also, the cutscene at the beginning of a level plays when loading from an autosave http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
maybe it will also work if I try it on my XP machine? http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

argh, how can I be stuck on a problem which is solved THAT simple.

[Spyd]

I had this problem sometimes playin SiN with all the patches. I don't remember how I fixed it. I guess that using an older savegame like you.
I also had the "killer lift" bug, where you use a lift, the lift starts moving, but you not. Need to say what happens next?
It was a pity that SiN was released soo buggy. One of the worst bugs of the original release was the eternal level loading. I stopped playing because I was expending more time looking at a progress bar than playing.
Then with the first patch they fixed this, and while the game doesn't load fast even in my P4 3Ghz + 1Gb, the wait is bearable.

This makes me remember the load times from the release version of Postal2. Sometimes I think some game developers hate us.

[Dave-ros]

I think the cause of these mistakes - not to mention the horrid "jelly effect" in the models (happens in Quake 2 as well, did it happen on my old computer?!) - is the common or garden rounding error. It didn't happen to Cerb when he played the level a second time from scratch, so it must be introduced as a kind of "time bomb" factor at some point, i.e. just waiting for you to try walking up stairs to "activate" http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif

Maybe if they released the source code, someone could sort it out and stop it happening any more... and then there'd be a SiN hi-res project - and I'm sure Parkar would be in the vanguard \o/

As a relevant aside, does the killer-lift thing happen in Half-Life: Source? In other words, does the Source version correct the rounding error? I hope Valve didn't leave it in for that special 1998 "I just died riding a lift for no reason" feeling http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif

[Cerberus_e]

on XP, the stairs work now, but the fan not, guess I'll need to do it in win98

[Dave-ros]

Have you tried jumping/ducking/running like crazy when you land? I know that's the only way to get off a lift in Half-Life if you're stuck, and I think it worked for me in the past...

[Cerberus_e]

of course I tried that, it worked for me in Doom 3 when I'm stuck in hell's rocks, but not in this game http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

[Cerberus_e]

ok, Dave-Ros, bow for my almighty solution.
I loaded the level in windows 98, saved it, and transferred the save to XP.
no bugs when I play it on XP now http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
so the bug indeed DOES occur while loading the level with my autosave. when I load the level with my save from 98 it doesn't, so now I can finish this level on XP http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
hard level http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Dave-ros]

Brilliant! You are the real-life J.C. (except not as nerdy) http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/woot.gif

[Cerberus_e]

I finished the whole level on my XP computer now, very good level if you ask me http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Cerberus_e]

I finished the game, now I just have to cheat to finish all secret levels, and i'm done! http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
incredible game, one of the best there are, but one problem:

I played sin on version 1.11, but as soon as I installed the expansion pack, it ptomped me it will patch the game to 1.03 when installed the expansion, so i'm stuck with version 1.03 (since there is no 1.03 => 1.11 patch)
what to do? reinstalling is not an option, because as soon as I reinstall the expansion it will be 1.03, I have no choice. and want to play wages of sin v1.11 preferably, because I don't feel safe on a lower version (version 1.11 was already buggy, with end bosses getting stuck, or enemies not being triggered, cameras not moving in cutscnees, ...)

[Dave-ros]

That's weird - my copy of the game is 1.10 and says you need to install the 1.11 patch after "Wages of SiN" (which I don't have, where did you get it?). I reckon you should just install the initial game, install "WoS", and then install the 1.11 patch, because I'm sure it'll still work!

But don't quote me on that if your computer melts... http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Combat Chuck]

The 1.01 to 1.11 patch will work with the 1.03 version that Wages of Sin backs the game down to. You can just reinstall that one, if you have it.

[Cerberus_e]

dave-ros, the thing is: there is no such thing as 1.11 patch!
it's 1.0 => 1.11 patch, 1.01 => 1.11 patch, 1.05 => 1.11 patch, 1.10 => 1.11 patch...
but of course no 10.3 => 1.11 patch http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif


Combat Chuck said:
The 1.01 to 1.11 patch will work with the 1.03 version that Wages of Sin backs the game down to. You can just reinstall that one, if you have it.



how % sure are you? why don't they say I can use the 1.01 => 1.11 patch then for version 1.03?
because the version numbers are still different, and seeing how there are different patches for different versions http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Dave-ros]

Is there not another patch included on the CD-ROM? My copy is a lower version "out of the box", but includes a patch to v.1.10 (which it says you must install if you want to play "Wages of SiN"), and I downloaded the patch to v.1.11.

If not, I recommend using the 1.01->1.11 patch since it presumably updates everything from 1.01 onwards, if you see what I mean. Back up save games and basically experiment to see what works... unless you don't want to spend that much time uninstalling and reinstalling http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Honestly, you won't damage your computer, just your SiN installation, and you can always reinstall it!

[Cerberus_e]

yes, but the problem is bugs caused by two patches interfering with each other could only appear at the end boss fight, no way I'm going through it again then http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Dave-ros]

Go on, you know you want to http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hhg.gif