Is this amusing or depressing?

[Dr. Kill]

I was just on Gamespot.com, and saw some news about Metal Gear Solid 4 and saw the terrible news. According to the site:
For fans of Metal Gear Solid 2's Raiden, Kojima confirms that he will be making a comeback in Metal Gear Solid 4.



Fans of Raiden?! Are they confused with the Mortal Kombat character (sometimes spelled Rayden)?! I have yet to meet one person who liked him at all. He was my vote for "wussiest character ever" on some gaming site a few years back. They replaced the bad ass Solid Snake with probably the gayest looking character I've seen in an action game. Even though it was Big Boss in MGS3 (from what I hear. MGS2 ruined the series forever for me) and not Snake, at least Big Boss is a bad ass, and not some pansy! Why!? Why would they bring back one of the most hated characters in gaming history?! After MGS1, the series is dead to me. Hell, Snake's Revenge on the NES is more of a sequel than MGS 2, and it wasn't an official Metal Gear game! (Snake's Revenge was a "fake sequel" to the original Metal Gear, made by Konami when they realised that the real sequel would never make it to the USA)

So, I have to ask:

[seregrail7]

I liked Raiden. I thought it was great how much he had changed by the end of the game. I think that was the idea. He started out oblivious to what was really going on, but by the end his eyes were opened up to it all. It would be stupid not to include him, as the end of MGS2 made is obvious that he would aid Snake in the fight against Metal Gear.

[Gatinater]

It's not Metal Gear without Solid Snake. So am I to understand Solid Snake is officially dead? He never survived Metal Gear Solid? The Fox Die took him out?

[Dr. Kill]

seregrail7 said:
I liked Raiden. I thought it was great how much he had changed by the end of the game. I think that was the idea. He started out oblivious to what was really going on, but by the end his eyes were opened up to it all. It would be stupid not to include him, as the end of MGS2 made is obvious that he would aid Snake in the fight against Metal Gear.



I don't know, I just HATE!!!! HIM!" He seems like a character the Japanese would like (Japanese characters are usually more feminine (sp?)), but damn it, us Americans want huge, buff characters like Duke Nukem, Solid Snake, and Bill Rizer!!! I don't want to see someone like Ben Affleck as Rambo! I want a bad ass who looks like a bad ass!

[Dr. Kill]

Gatinater said:
It's not Metal Gear without Solid Snake.


Damn straight!

So am I to understand Solid Snake is officially dead? He never survived Metal Gear Solid? The Fox Die took him out?



That was the rumor when MGS 2 was coming out. We all thought it was a clone of Solid Snake (blame gaming mags), but the real truth (Raiden) was much, much worse. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

[Sir Lemonhead]

A much older looking Snake is apparently the main character in number 4. Raiden must just be a secondary character at some point..

[SyntaxN]

Raiden was "ok", but I hope we will beat the entire MGS4 with Snake, Raiden could be still a character for the story! (and he´s going to be cooler, whatever that means...)

When we´re talking about MGS, some new stuff from part 4 http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

http://img236.imageshack.us/img236/2896/consolewarsimage4uh.jpg

http://img270.imageshack.us/img270/6357/consolewarsimage24kh.jpg

http://img270.imageshack.us/img270/89/consolewarsimage30oa.jpg



http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/3636/consolewarsimage48jj.jpg http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/9163/consolewarsimage50vt.jpg

[GrkFire611]

Dr. Kill said:
I was just on Gamespot.com, and saw some news about Metal Gear Solid 4 and saw the terrible news. According to the site:
For fans of Metal Gear Solid 2's Raiden, Kojima confirms that he will be making a comeback in Metal Gear Solid 4.



Fans of Raiden?! Are they confused with the Mortal Kombat character (sometimes spelled Rayden)?! I have yet to meet one person who liked him at all. He was my vote for "wussiest character ever" on some gaming site a few years back. They replaced the bad ass Solid Snake with probably the gayest looking character I've seen in an action game. Even though it was Big Boss in MGS3 (from what I hear. MGS2 ruined the series forever for me) and not Snake, at least Big Boss is a bad ass, and not some pansy! Why!? Why would they bring back one of the most hated characters in gaming history?! After MGS1, the series is dead to me. Hell, Snake's Revenge on the NES is more of a sequel than MGS 2, and it wasn't an official Metal Gear game! (Snake's Revenge was a "fake sequel" to the original Metal Gear, made by Konami when they realised that the real sequel would never make it to the USA)



Very strong words.

By all means, Raiden's prominent inclusion in Metal Gear Solid 2 was a disappointment to many who took it for granted that they would be playing as Solid Snake the whole way through. However, the character of Raiden and the player's control of him is there for a very specific purpose -- to show Solid Snake and develop him as a character from a different point of view. In that sense, I enjoyed playing as Raiden, because it let me see Snake from a different angle.

Your sterotyping of Japanese media and culture aside, yes, Raiden is not a very westernized character. That does not make him any less deep or interesting. Starting as the naive fool, Raiden progresses through the game with a constantly evolving sense of both justice and duty, and Kojima uses the character to bring up moral issues that result from the differing interpretations of these ideas. Some may see Raiden as a "wuss," certainly, and in truth he does come off as a bit whiny at some points. Still, the purpose for which Kojima puts him, a green rookie, in the shoes of Solid Snake allows the player to come to terms with the events that unfold in a different manner than they would have if they were playing as hard-edged, "seen it all" Snake. That's why I liked playing as Raiden as well as Snake. It was a very dynamic way to tell the story of the game.

If you swore off the Metal Gear series because of MGS2, then I'm not about to beg you to come back. After all, one less "fan" of the games means one more copy on the proverbial shelf that the rest of us can get our grubby little mitts on. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dopefish.gif I do recommend you reconsider, though. I have loved every Metal Gear game to date (excluding Snake's Revenge, which I am appalled to see you compare to MGS2... the games share nothing in common), and Metal Gear Solid 3 continues the series' evolution and overall awesomeness. I don't like to play favorites, so I won't rank any of the games higher than any other, but MGS3 rocks. Hard. Big Boss is just as cool a character to play as Solid Snake is, and after all, since Snake is a clone of Big Boss, there are many similarites between the characters besides their looks. And hey, MGS3: Subsistance should be coming out soon, so you have another reason to look into it.

I have no doubt in my mind that Konami will deliver another shining example of why videogames rule in Metal Gear Solid 4. Every Metal Gear game they've released so far has been a classic, so why should I have any reason to doubt? http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I can't wait for the true MGS4 trailer. I heard it's going to be shown at an upcoming gameshow (I forget which) in real-time -- not a PC that is tailored to meet supposed PS3 specifications, but rather on actual PS3 hardware! I forget where I got the news from, I think it was eurogamer.net. I'll have to check now. Damn, I'm excited!

-Mike

EDIT: The guy with the white hair can't be Snake. Otacon doesn't look nearly as old as he does, and in MGS and MGS2 I would have pegged them for the same age. Bet you it's Ocelot. Who else would have a moustache? http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hhg.gif

[seregrail7]

I've heared rumours the old guy is Big Boss.

[Dr. Kill]

Damn! Those screens look like pictures. Too bad the series is screwed for me. I want Snake as he was in MGS 2, and no Raiden, no 1960's, no future shit. I want the real MGS2. God damn bastard! Ruined one of my favorite series!

[GrkFire611]

seregrail7 said:
I've heared rumours the old guy is Big Boss.



There's concept art floating around of all the characters, and one of them seems to be a very old-looking, frail, naked body... with an eyepatch. Speculation points

<table><tr><th><font size="-1">Spoiler below:</font></th></tr><tr><td class="spoiler">to it being Big Boss's body. Now this could either mean that Big Boss is dead and his remains play a role in MGS4 just as they did in MGS1, or perhaps Big Boss isn't actually dead, but just cryogenically frozen or something? Either way, should be a good, if not convoluted as usual, story. </td></tr></table>

[Dr. Kill]

GrkFire611 said:
Your sterotyping of Japanese media and culture

I was not stereotyping. I was merely saying that usually their characters are not as manly as American characters. One exception would be M.D. Geist, who looks similar to Bill Rizer or Duke Nukem. I was just saying that overall they have different tastes and styles. A style that isn't what I want for a main character in an action game.

[GrkFire611]

Don't get defensive, I didn't mean it to reprimand you. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif Japanese culture is indeed very different than Western culture. Either way, it is stereotyping, but that doesn't necessarily imply a negative connotation.

[Sir Lemonhead]

In Metal Gear Solid, Snake was considerably older than Otacon wasn't he? like 20 years older?

[LeadBullet]

GrkFire611 said:
Don't get defensive, I didn't mean it to reprimand you. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif Japanese culture is indeed very different than Western culture. Either way, it is stereotyping, but that doesn't necessarily imply a negative connotation.



So how fast does their culture change? It seems like its only in the last few years that they got on the hermaphrodite wagon.

[Water12356]

If raiden is playable for more than 10% of the gameplay I will cry... And those screens are hot. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/love.gif

[GrkFire611]

LeadBullet said:

GrkFire611 said:
Don't get defensive, I didn't mean it to reprimand you. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif Japanese culture is indeed very different than Western culture. Either way, it is stereotyping, but that doesn't necessarily imply a negative connotation.



So how fast does their culture change? It seems like its only in the last few years that they got on the hermaphrodite wagon.



Maybe they've been watching too much South Park?

[BioHazard]

seregrail7 said:
I've heared rumours the old guy is Big Boss.



I don't know, he somehow reminds me of Ted Turner. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dopefish.gif

[Ruger]

It's worth pointing out that Big Boss's eye patch is over his right eye, while those shots show a patch over the character's left eye. So I doubt it's actually Big Boss.

And yes, I hated Raiden as much you Dr. Kill. Though I didn't give up on the series over it. MGS3 is really quite good.

[motionblur]

Oh, man. Get over it. If you didn't play MGS3 just because of Raiden in MGS2 I actually pity you. You fanboyism made you miss one of the greatest games ever. Also you can play your badass Snake in it - but you probably already knew that.

Raiden did not spoil or mess up anything for me. Surely - at first it felt a little strange to play a diferent character but that doesn't change anything about the fact that Raiden was a deep character (don't ask me about something specific, though - I haven't played the game in years so I base my oppinion on the overall impression I have left from the game). The gameplay was awesome and I found the story to be very well-thought, too.

It's just a bad thing if people get to raise hopes and expectations for a game and build up a image of what they think it should be in their minds. When the game's there and the image doesn't match the actual gameplay or story they get disappointed. Too bad. Even though they miss out an awesome game. I know somebody who feels the same way about Resident Evil 4 (which is one of the coolest games I have ever played so far). Just because there were no zombies and not much of Umbrella around.
I say: go for it and give changes a chance. After all the same bitching about every game being the same after the 3rd equal sequel will occur. Some people always get to bitch and moan.

[Steve]

I have yet to meet one person who liked him at all.


He's a bit fruity.

[Neptune]

Was it me, or was Metal Gear Solid 3, a bit of a underseller, more of a cult hit? It seemed like it sold OK, as opposed to it's brothers MGS and MGS2 (Both of which were chart topping behmoths!)? I personally think it was because of the (Terrible game, imo) GTA:SA that had just come out.

At any rate, THIS IS THE REASON I'M GOING TO BUY A PS3!!!

Look at those pics! Good GAWD!

I love you Hideo Kojima.

[Dr. Kill]

Steve said:

I have yet to meet one person who liked him at all.


He's a bit fruity.



I remember the first time I heard him say "FREEZE!" when I held up a gaurd, and burst out into laughter! He sounds soooooooooo non-threatening! http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[GrkFire611]

Dr. Kill said:

Steve said:

I have yet to meet one person who liked him at all.


He's a bit fruity.



I remember the first time I heard him say "FREEZE!" when I held up a gaurd, and burst out into laughter! He sounds soooooooooo non-threatening! http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif



Personally, I thought his bad-assitude was pretty solidified around the time he started, you know, carving through a sea of enemies with a katana. Or when he fought a never-ending onslaught of Metal Gears. Or maybe when he managed to defeat enemies that squads of Navy SEALS couldn't bring down. Or when he took down an F-16 single-handedly. Or...

[Dr. Kill]

god damn, you must like him a lot! http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif

[GrkFire611]

Just sayin'. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[Dr. Kill]

I liked the gameplay quite a bit, but I hated the character.

[GrkFire611]

To each his own, yeah?

Gotta say though, one of my favorite moments in MGS2 was when you had to sneak Snake past all those marines in the tanker holds. That was so cool.

[kylemf88]

Well I forgot that in the one teaser for mgs4 it said that the main character is solid snake. Also here is the only picture gamespot has for mgs4. You can see the old guy that might be big boss.
http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/2005/136/926596_20050517_screen001.jpg