Will DNF Still Be DN?

[Von Doom]

What do you think? Look at DOOM 3 compaired to old DOOM's for example. I hope DNF keeps the old feel of Duke gameplay though some more story would be nice. I wanna heard some good rockin music and lots of surprises to keep you on the edge of your seat. Duke needs to keep his one-liners, have lots of old and new enemies, old and new weapons, and of course, Dr. Proton. Wouldn't a Duke Burger in DNF kick total ass? Also what do you think the maps will be like? Will it be a military base, city, space? Will Duke be battling it out in streets and halls or going all out through casino's and malls?

[mental stampede]

Yes.

[Zaarin]

Von Doom said:
DNF kick total ass?



Oh yes. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/love.gif

Sorry, I just love to play with random quoting. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[HanCi]

Definately. The original Doom wasn't exactly the game the devopers wanted to do.

[Cerberus_e]

man, this is already the zillionth thread of someone comparing doom and doom 3, and then proceed to ask how DNF will be compared to duke3D.

[Beelze]

There aren't that many examples of recent remakes/sequels that didn't retain the feel of the original, and everyone knows of Doom 3.

[Cerberus_e]

yes, but all threads are about the same, that's my point.

[Beelze]

True, but this is the DNF forum. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Fox McCloud]

I'd like to see more fighting/action in the streets. As for space maps, I never hear of people discussing them at all.

[Cerberus_e]

Fox McCloud said:
I'd like to see more fighting/action in the streets. As for space maps, I never hear of people discussing them at all.



that has been discussed a lot, new guy http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif (not meant as insult http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif)

[Simon Charles]

One of 3DR's strengths has always been gameplay. I'm not worried. DNF will feel "Duke".

[Wamplet]

Simon Charles said:
One of 3DR's strengths has always been gameplay.


Too bad it's not "hurrying the hell up." http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[priador]

Cerberus_e said:
yes, but all threads are about the same, that's my point.




there is nothing new to talk about, that is the reason 3 or 4 threads in the past couple years have been new... so unless there are screenshots or some other proof that there is a game... all the threads are going to be about the same thing... good call Cerberus-

[hell-angel]

Don't worry, I am sure that DNF will keep everything that make D3D great and more. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif Including the one-liners and everything. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Cerberus_e]

hell-angel said:
Don't worry, I am sure that DNF will keep everything that make D3D great http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif



http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/woot.gif
hell-angel confirmed the battlelord.

[Von Doom]

My big question is I wonder if Duke will travel through time or not, and if so, does he stay on Earth or go to another planet or space craft or something.

[EmperorZorn]

I think he might time travel,
like in "Duke Nukem: Time to Kill" which was awesome, imo.
The time travel has brought out the best in both corny lines and weapon arsenal... how I loved to set those humping sheep on fire...

But the title Duke Nukem Forever could kind of imply a time travel, since "Forever" is indicating an infinite span of time.
Like "Duke Nukem in all times"

Also, the whole mule scene in the trailer looked more like
in a wildwest town....also mines.. I dont know what sort of backwater towns the area has, but it might be an indication of time travel.

Then again, if I consider DNF being set in Vegas,
the city holds so many fun locations.
Duke probably wont even need to get back in time to have enough levels to nuke through.

We can speculate a lot, but only George can answer this.

[Yatta]

Will DNF Still Be DN?


You shouldn't be asking this question. It has been reiterated several times in various game sites and magazines that DNF will be and in fact is true to its original prequel. PC Gamer got to test drive the game when they came over to Texas to review Prey, and that bastard Shacker that saw screenshots said they were reminiscent of Duke3D except they looked so damn good that he thought they were Photoshopped.

[big fat lazy]

EmperorZorn said:
I think he might time travel,
like in "Duke Nukem: Time to Kill" which was awesome, imo.
The time travel has brought out the best in both corny lines and weapon arsenal...


"Time flies when you're kicking ass"

BTW DNF won't be like the other Duke games, it'll be more like Halo and an Xbox 360 exclusive.

[hell-angel]

Cerberus_e said:

hell-angel said:
Don't worry, I am sure that DNF will keep everything that make D3D great http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif



http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/woot.gif
hell-angel confirmed the battlelord.



I didn't know that I had the authority to confirm things about DNF?? Unless I suddenly got a job at 3DR and they forgot to tell me about it, I know no more then you guys do. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Malgon]

Fox McCloud said:
I'd like to see more fighting/action in the streets. As for space maps, I never hear of people discussing them at all.



I agree on the fighting in streets. If it feels like the first few levels of L.A. meltdown, but obviously more open and excessively detailed it will feel true to the old Duke.

As for the space maps I found some of them to be my most favourite levels. Space maps rocked, and now they could add heaps of atmosphere to being on a space station, or even moonwalking on a eery base. It could be so cool imo. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[EmperorZorn]

hell-angel said:

Cerberus_e said:

hell-angel said:
Don't worry, I am sure that DNF will keep everything that make D3D great http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif



http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/woot.gif
hell-angel confirmed the battlelord.



I didn't know that I had the authority to confirm things about DNF?? Unless I suddenly got a job at 3DR and they forgot to tell me about it, I know no more then you guys do. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif



Fellow DNF fanatics:
I hereby confirm, on the 12th of October of the dukeless year 2005, that Duke will be in the game.
He will play the main role.
More informations about who this omnious Duke is
will be released when I feel like it.

[cd_toaster]

im with you 100% on that. it is most important it doesnt loose its old feel. doom 3 wasnt that good. they even removed the cool little pic from the bottom of the screen

[Cerberus_e]

cd_toaster said:
im with you 100% on that. it is most important it doesnt loose its old feel. doom 3 wasnt that good. they even removed the cool little pic from the bottom of the screen



that wouldn't fit in the modernised HUD.
besides, the little picture at the bottom isn't really what made doom, because it was done earlier in Wolfenstein3D (and possibly in some earlier games as well)

[hell-angel]

Cerberus_e said:

cd_toaster said:
im with you 100% on that. it is most important it doesnt loose its old feel. doom 3 wasnt that good. they even removed the cool little pic from the bottom of the screen



that wouldn't fit in the modernised HUD.
besides, the little picture at the bottom isn't really what made doom, because it was done earlier in Wolfenstein3D (and possibly in some earlier games as well)



But it would be cool. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

But this is off topic people, let's go back shall we. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[MasterInsan0]

Honestly I think it's impossible to make DNF be "like" DN3D. With all the modern technology, new ideas, industry changes, and hollywood-ization of the gaming world, making a game like DN3D in today's market is a huge risk.

A good example of this fallacy might just be Quake 4, if the rumors are true. PC Gamer claimed it suffered from outdated game design, despite the fancy graphics. Is that what we want for DNF? I think not.

Yes, it should feel like Duke, but it shouldn't feel like DN3D.

It's hard to pick the two apart, but hey, I'm long-winded so I'll try.

In order to make DNF feel like a Duke franchise game, the elements required could be argued over for a very long time...well, until the game ships anyway http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif. So, I won't try to define those elements. Those elements, however, cannot be the only selling point of the game.

Nostalgia is a terrible beast when it comes to anticipation for sequels, because you have perfect images of the games you grew up knowing and loving and fragging in. That image exists in the mind as a sort of "first time" that we'll never get to experience again.

To put it more bluntly, we were Duke virgins, but now that we've had it in the form of DN3D, nothing will ever live up to be quite as good as the first time. Unless, of course, 3DR adds enough new stuff to make DNF a different experience altogether.

There is a certain threshold that designers (good ones, anyway) try to find that makes that different experience. Halo 2, for example, could not reach that threshold (at least in my opinion), but then again it didn't need to. Half-Life 2, on the other hand, did.

Using HL2 further as an example, look at the original HL. For it's time, the story was amazing (since FPS's didn't have them before HL), the action was intense and the game was original, involving, and fun. You got to run around a science facility in a modern world and try to get out without drowning in radioactive goo or being shot up by the military. Along the way, you met some interesting people who, while their presence wasn't necessary to make the game fun, added a certain involvement that made you feel more like you were Gordon Freeman, rather than being spoken to as if you were him.

HL2 took that formula and threw it out the window. Sure, it's still a shooter game with a story core and a puzzle solving element, but the way it was presented was completely different. While the feel in HL1 was "survive and escape", the feel in HL2 was much more complex and dynamic. making you feel the dread of the world around you. The colors, the music, the ambience, the characters, the environments -- all of them combined to make an atmosphere that just begged you to save it from the Combine.

That is a great example of how DNF needs to differ from DN3D. It can still be a shooter game with a cocky, one-liner-spouting badass as a main character and a very actiony feel, but the game must evolve and take everything not one, but four or five steps further. Whereas DN3D was focused primarily on the attitude of Duke combined with brilliant level design and some really good core gameplay decisions (the boot still stands out as my favorite weapon in any FPS), DNF must take these things further.

If DNF is a shooter game with a cocky, one-liner-spouting badass and a very actiony feel with brilliant level design and good core gameplay decisions, it will sell. But it will be underwhelming. Why? Because we've had it before. Seeing it in 3D is not enough to make us enjoy it as much or more than we did the first time. DNF needs to be all that, plus a truckload of chips.

One of the major challenges of game design (or so it seems to me) is trying to make your game stand out from the crowd of other games out there. As the industry matures, it becomes much harder to achieve this. Sort of. There are always people looking to make a quick buck by rehashing the same game design over and over or by slapping some cheap load of crap onto a shelf and hoping the laws of statistics and probability work in the company's favor. Because of this, it is, in my opinion, no harder to innovate now than it was 10 years ago; it's simply less appealing to do so.

Thankfully, 3DR is in the perfect situation to pull off the innovation required to make DNF that leap ahead of DN3D it needs to be to succeed both with us, the DN3D vets (or just fans), and the general public.

They don't have a publisher breathing down their neck, they have a huge list of great games under their belt, they aren't satisfied with putting out crap, they have money (as far as we know), and they have good game designers and talented developers in their ranks.

Of course, this doesn't always lead to success. id, for example, didn't do so hot with Doom3, despite the fact that it met all those same requirements.

However, considering the giant leap from DN II to DN3D, we can only hope the leap from DN3D to DNF will be equally significant.

So, will DNF still be DN? Probably. Will it be like DN3D? Hopefully not.

[Crucifier]

i was playing the abyss level earlier and i had an alien begging for its life right on a ledge.. the first thing i thought was "wow i would love to kick this alien bastard into a canyon with a physics engine!" i hope they have a lot of similar levels like that. (Can you guys imagine kicking a begging alien off a mountain/canyon? http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif )

[hell-angel]

I didn't read your post MasterInsan0 but I do agree with your summerized opinion:
The level design needs to be up to date.
BUT, that does not mean some of the levels can not be old school, just that the levels need to contain modern stuff like moveble boxes and barrels for example and objects to manipulate and when you shoot against a rack I want the things in there to fall.


As for quake 4, I don't really listen to one game site anyway, I (as should we all)only listen to that advice if multiple game sites say the same.

I do wanna play quake 4 though. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Cerberus_e]

so what if quake 4 has outdated design.
games don't need to innovate to be good.
games have to offer a solid experience to be good.

look at Doom 3, it does nothing new (or nothing that stands out I mean), but it offers such a solid experience that it's my favourite game of 2004! one of the best games ever made.

[Kalki]

Cerberus_e said:
games have to offer a solid experience to be good.




Let's not forget "immersive" & "fun".

[hell-angel]

Cerberus_e said:
so what if quake 4 has outdated design.
games don't need to innovate to be good.
games have to offer a solid experience to be good.

look at Doom 3, it does nothing new (or nothing that stands out I mean), but it offers such a solid experience that it's my favourite game of 2004! one of the best games ever made.



I second that, although it may not have been the best, it certainly was (and still is) a good and fun game to play IMO. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Cerberus_e]

Kalki said:

Cerberus_e said:
games have to offer a solid experience to be good.




Let's not forget "immersive" & "fun".



that's included in "solid" for me http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Joe Siegler]

Of course. Next question - thank you, drive through. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[EmperorZorn]

Joe3DR said:
Of course. Next question - thank you, drive through. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif



Alright ^_^ !

*steps on the gas and runs over about 3 curious bystanders*

Why would anyone want DNF to be like DN3D ?
We already have DN3D...
I want DNF and not DN3D 2,

*activates the car's window cleaners to remove all the green blood (yes, I dont want to get censored)*

[Micki!]

Joe3DR said:
Of course. Next question - thank you, drive through. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif



Well, that's nice to know... And it didn't even take two pages to get an official answer... http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

[Joe Siegler]

Micki! said:

Joe3DR said:
Of course. Next question - thank you, drive through. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif



Well, that's nice to know... And it didn't even take two pages to get an official answer... http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif



Well, as Charlie & George might tell you.. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif I don't know anything about DNF. But my point is this fear is unfounded. It's a Duke game. It's not like we're turning him into some sissy boy type of thing. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Kristian Joensen]

But that is what I don't rely understand, why don't you know anything about it ?

Didn't you say that had a copy of it on your computer at work ?

[Joe Siegler]

Yes, I have a copy on my machine. But I don't play it daily, I'm not a developer of the game. I know enough about it to know the core direction, and whatnot but all the small fiddly minutae I don't. George & Charlie know more about it than I do. As they should. That's my point.

Not only that, officially folks from here aren't supposed to be talking about the game anyway - information about the game (such that it is) comes from George. The less I know, the less a chance I can screw up and say something I'm not supposed to be talking about.

The "Joe doesn't know anything" is more of a joke that George whips out whenever I say something that's wrong. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[avatar_58]

Joe3DR said:
Well, as Charlie & George might tell you.. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif I don't know anything about DNF. But my point is this fear is unfounded. It's a Duke game. It's not like we're turning him into some sissy boy type of thing. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif



I think people are worried Duke is going to loose whatever made him great. I don't think he will.... http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[hell-angel]

avatar_58 said:

Joe3DR said:
Well, as Charlie & George might tell you.. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif I don't know anything about DNF. But my point is this fear is unfounded. It's a Duke game. It's not like we're turning him into some sissy boy type of thing. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif



I think people are worried Duke is going to loose whatever made him great. I don't think he will.... http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif



Well, it worries me as well a bit. Most sequals lose what was really good about the original. They remove the humor or some cool feature or something. I seriously hope that that will be in in DNF. Although the humor (one-liners) are confirmed to be in. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Micki!]

Joe3DR said:
But my point is this fear is unfounded. It's a Duke game. It's not like we're turning him into some sissy boy type of thing. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif



I assume that this also counts for the levels, the weapons, and the overall feel of the game..! http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

[Kalki]

Joe3DR said:
The "Joe doesn't know anything" is more of a joke that George whips out whenever I say something that's wrong. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif



Sure... that's what it is... a "joke"... http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[Rider]

well if George isn't gonna claim Joe's ignorance in this thread, then I'm not worried the least bit http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[hell-angel]

hehe. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif Smart one.


Happy birthday Rider. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Cerberus_e]

Joe3DR said:
I don't know anything about DNF.



not even what enemies it has? I don't believe you http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
if anyone can say that he doesn't know anything about DNF, then WE are that http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[SyntaxN]

Joe3DR said:
Yes, I have a copy on my machine. But I don't play it daily, I'm not a developer of the game.


How old is your copy, do you get an new build every week or so....

[Kristian Joensen]

More importantly how big is your copy ?

Can you update it at anytime if you want to or are their any non-self imposed rules about that ?

[roryok]

hell-angel said:

avatar_58 said:

Joe3DR said:
Well, as Charlie & George might tell you.. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif I don't know anything about DNF. But my point is this fear is unfounded. It's a Duke game. It's not like we're turning him into some sissy boy type of thing. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif



I think people are worried Duke is going to loose whatever made him great. I don't think he will.... http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif



Well, it worries me as well a bit. Most sequals lose what was really good about the original. They remove the humor or some cool feature or something. I seriously hope that that will be in in DNF. Although the humor (one-liners) are confirmed to be in. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif



I think if they've got the humour, the babes, and the gameplay, thats the essence of dn3d for me

And yeah, obviously we don't just want dn3d 2, but even if thats all it turns out to be, who wouldn't want to play dn3d with state of the art graphics, real world physics and new levels from the kings of level design?

[SyntaxN]

I´m pretty sure 3dr will keep elements which make DNF "Duke", but mixed with many modern gameplay stuff http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[hell-angel]

SyntaxN said:
I´m pretty sure 3dr will keep elements which make DNF "Duke", but mixed with many modern gameplay stuff http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif



That's what I hope DNF will exist of. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif