View Full Version : High resolution cinematics
If DNF has pre-rendered cinematic sequences, there should be a -optional- high resolution version?
Nowadays rendering costs are small, and it'll be cool to see the cinematic sequences in full HDTV quality (1080p).
I think that everybody that can play DNF will have enough computer to play that kind of video, so... why see cinematics that are so low-res that are blurrier than the actual game?
Kristian Joensen
10-10-2005, 11:12 AM
Sorry but there wont be any cinematics, everything will be seen though Duke Nukem's eyes just like in Prey(But there it is through Tommy Tawodi's eyes instead).
Imfamous
10-10-2005, 11:25 AM
DNF should stay true to Duke 3d and have no cinematics at all
crunchy superman
10-10-2005, 11:28 AM
^ Indeed! I despise game cinematics! http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif
Cerberus_e
10-10-2005, 11:36 AM
I like cinematics at: the beginning of the level/end of the level.
but not inbetween.
in fact, I LOVE cutscenes at the beginning and/or end of the level http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Kristian Joensen
10-10-2005, 11:40 AM
Imfamous said:
DNF should stay true to Duke 3d and have no cinematics at all
What are you talking about, there are cinematics after every episode.
Cerberus_e
10-10-2005, 11:46 AM
Kristian Joensen said:
Imfamous said:
DNF should stay true to Duke 3d and have no cinematics at all
What are you talking about, there are cinematics after every episode.
even at the beginning of episode 4.
Kristian Joensen
10-10-2005, 11:59 AM
Yes that was very cool.
Imfamous
10-10-2005, 12:01 PM
Kristian Joensen said:
Imfamous said:
DNF should stay true to Duke 3d and have no cinematics at all
What are you talking about, there are cinematics after every episode.
My mistake. Nonetheless, I don't think DNF should have cutscenes. It was fine for an FPS back in the sprite days, but it just ruins the game today.
Kristian Joensen
10-10-2005, 12:04 PM
What ?
Have you seen the cutscenes from Prey ?
Joe Siegler
10-10-2005, 12:12 PM
Imfamous said:
DNF should stay true to Duke 3d and have no cinematics at all
Huh? Duke3D had some small cinematics. Not much, but it was there.
Imfamous
10-10-2005, 12:29 PM
Thanks for ignoring to read my second post. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/doh.gif
Orochi Avlis
10-10-2005, 12:58 PM
Kristian Joensen said:
What ?
Have you seen the cutscenes from Prey ?
They aren't cut scenes. They are all from Tommy's (if not, somebody else's) eyes.
Kristian Joensen
10-10-2005, 01:05 PM
Yes, I know that, but they exist. Wheter they technicaly are to be aclled cut scenes is another matter, they never the less are similiar and play the same role as cut scenes.
avatar_58
10-10-2005, 01:09 PM
It would be good out of the player's eyes, or in game "moments" like in Doom 3.
dudetheman19
10-10-2005, 01:10 PM
Joe3DR said:
Imfamous said:
DNF should stay true to Duke 3d and have no cinematics at all
Huh? Duke3D had some small cinematics. Not much, but it was there.
I loved the cinematic, KEEP THEM!! Also looked like there would be some in the DNF2001 video.
Imfamous
10-10-2005, 04:57 PM
Kristian Joensen said:
Yes, I know that, but they exist. Wheter they technicaly are to be aclled cut scenes is another matter, they never the less are similiar and play the same role as cut scenes.
The point is, they're not cutscenes.
Kristian Joensen
10-10-2005, 05:14 PM
But then what is a cutscene what is it you are objecting to ?
Games with a story ?
BloodWolf806
10-10-2005, 05:19 PM
I think DNF should have cinematics from your perspective, like Half-Life 2 and Far Cry Instincts.
Kristian Joensen
10-10-2005, 05:21 PM
That is exactly how it is gonna be, that is 3D Realms design principle, we can expect ALL future 3D Reams games both 1st and 3rd party ones to be like that.
Von Doom
10-10-2005, 05:35 PM
I think high-res cut-scenes would be killer.
big fat lazy
10-10-2005, 05:43 PM
I would prefer no cutscenes or cinematics.
chitown
10-10-2005, 05:57 PM
Spyd said:
If DNF has pre-rendered cinematic sequences, there should be a -optional- high resolution version?
Nowadays rendering costs are small, and it'll be cool to see the cinematic sequences in full HDTV quality (1080p).
I think that everybody that can play DNF will have enough computer to play that kind of video, so... why see cinematics that are so low-res that are blurrier than the actual game?
I dont know, while that's a great idea, that high resolution will cost anyone who want to experience that double the money. First buying a top-end video card to output that resolution, and then getting a monitor to display it, just for a bit of pre-rendered cinematic scenes.
Symok
10-10-2005, 07:11 PM
chitown said:I dont know, while that's a great idea, that high resolution will cost anyone who want to experience that double the money. First buying a top-end video card to output that resolution, and then getting a monitor to display it, just for a bit of pre-rendered cinematic scenes.
"They shouldn't include high res versions of cut scences because some people might go buy new hardware to watch them"?
http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif
Personally, I think that for those who have a high end graphics card, high resolution cutscenes would be an awsome addition http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
avatar_58
10-10-2005, 07:19 PM
I think the reason more games are avoiding cutscene movies and just doing them ingame is due to hardware. It ends up looking much nicer on high end instead of being stuck with low resolution blurry videos.
The real reason they use those video is so they can make the characters do things their models can't. I have a better idea....maybe they should make better models capable of doing some actions besides walking and shooting?
Piano Man
10-10-2005, 07:19 PM
As long as they have a cheat that enables 3rd person later on in the game... That would be great.
Yatta
10-10-2005, 07:32 PM
No. Pre-rendered movie files have been extinct for a good while now. It can all be done in-engine and look better too.
Imfamous
10-10-2005, 08:07 PM
Kristian Joensen said:
But then what is a cutscene what is it you are objecting to ?
Games with a story ?
That unless it's an RPG or game like MGS, cutscenes ruin games. I don't give a shit if they do stuff like what's seen in the Prey trailer, but if they do something like Halo, it would worsen the game.
Now stop asking stupid questions.
Gideon
10-10-2005, 08:49 PM
Pre-Rendered cut scenes have gone the way of the dodo, but I miss them. They we're a reward to me, and I enjoyed watching them, still do. Most engines now can do pretty good graphics, so they do them real-time.
I would like to see the CG cutscene make a comeback though, even if it is in realtime.
Yatta
10-10-2005, 09:14 PM
Gideon said:
I would like to see the CG cutscene make a comeback though, even if it is in realtime.
Custscenes should return only if they're done in realtime. You'd be wasting disk space generating videos when your game engine is almost on par with what can be done in a pre-rendered cinematic. Even real-time strategy games are doing stuff in-engine now. Off the top of my head, most of the sequences in Warcraft 3 are done right inside the game.
Emultra
10-10-2005, 09:44 PM
Well, I wouldn't want to be without Blizzards top notch cutscenes.
Yatta said:
Even real-time strategy games are doing stuff in-engine now. Off the top of my head, most of the sequences in Warcraft 3 are done right inside the game.
Age of Mythology does it too. And quite kickass-ly.
Anyway, I think cutscenes should be in DNF, but not too long. Kinda like the ending cutscenes in DN3D. Just enough to show a resolve to a problem in the game, but short and to the point. Also, I do agree that they should be done in-engine. It's a first-person shooter, the graphics should be good enough for you to be able to sit through a 30-second or less cutscene of duke radiating kickassery.
Orochi Avlis
10-10-2005, 11:14 PM
Emultra said:
Well, I wouldn't want to be without Blizzards top notch cutscenes.
They do make some good ones.
Kalki
10-11-2005, 01:02 AM
Orochi Avlis said:
Emultra said:
Well, I wouldn't want to be without Blizzards top notch cutscenes.
They do make some good ones.
Agreed.
Implementation matters. You can't blindly stick to conventions, you should do what feels right in the scope of your project.
Me, I'd like cinematic elements in DNF, not necessarily the perspective break but atleast scripted music for key moments and perhaps chapter titles or those location-depicting texts that come typing into the bottom left corner, when you appear in a fresh area.
hell-angel
10-11-2005, 01:20 AM
How about cinematice at PC quality?? That is much better then HDTV quality. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
chitown
10-11-2005, 05:56 AM
Symok said:
chitown said:I dont know, while that's a great idea, that high resolution will cost anyone who want to experience that double the money. First buying a top-end video card to output that resolution, and then getting a monitor to display it, just for a bit of pre-rendered cinematic scenes.
"They shouldn't include high res versions of cut scences because some people might go buy new hardware to watch them"?
http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif
People are going to need to buy new hardware regardless mainly a new video card when this game comes out, but wanting the highest HD resolution that is possible, 1080p we will need a WUXGA or WQXGA monitors to display that.
While I guess that most (all?) of the in-game cinematic sequences will be done with the engine (I prefer it that way), I'm sure there are key points in DNF that are difficult to represent using the engine.
And I know that sometimes a pre-rendered movie can break the inmersion, but not if is at the game start or after defeating a boss.
So even if there are only two pre-rendered cinematic sequences (presentation, ending... whatever) I want them to be encoded in full HDTV glory.
About tech stuff:
HDTV video on PC needs a powerful computer; but you won't be playing DNF in a crappy PC.
To fully enjoy HDTV, you need a high resolution monitor, but even in the standard 1024x768 resolution you can see the added crispness. Remember that the NTSC DVD resolution is 720x480.
And DNF can have two versions of the cinematic sequences; one in standard resolution for the less powerful computers, and the other in high definition.
Finally, even if you need a too-expensive computer to see the HD video, in one year even cheap computers will handle it without sweating... so it's a future investment.
hell-angel
10-11-2005, 07:25 AM
uhhmm, I could be wrong here but as far as I know, HDTV still has a lower resolution then a standard monitor. (CRT monitor of course).
If I am wrong, what is the resolution of a HD TV?
It depends on the mode used.
there are several modes: 480, 720, 1080; corresponding to the horintal lines, and every resolution has two options, interlaced or progressive. Interlaced means that the real video resolution is halved.
The highest resolution is 1080p, that is 1920x1080.
Here you have a graphic to see how compare the different resolutions: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/480i
EmperorZorn
10-11-2005, 09:50 AM
NO !
I wouldnt want cinematics other than intro and ending in DNF.
Such things should take place ingame, in order not to break the immersion and to keep you on guard even during ingame conversions.
I like watching out for enemies while talking to npcs :P
Its more realistic.
hell-angel
10-12-2005, 01:28 AM
Spyd said:
It depends on the mode used.
there are several modes: 480, 720, 1080; corresponding to the horintal lines, and every resolution has two options, interlaced or progressive. Interlaced means that the real video resolution is halved.
The highest resolution is 1080p, that is 1920x1080.
Here you have a graphic to see how compare the different resolutions: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/480i
Thanks, I thought for sure that PC monitors had a better graphical resolution then TV's. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Malgon
10-12-2005, 05:25 AM
I think 3DRealms has already decided that things will happen through Dukes eyes only, in scripted, in-engine cutscenes, much like HL 2's style. Only with a Duke voice. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Micki!
10-12-2005, 01:22 PM
Malgon said:
I think 3DRealms has already decided that things will happen through Dukes eyes only, in scripted, in-engine cutscenes, much like HL 2's style. Only with a Duke voice. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
I like it that way... But i also kinda want cutscenes after each boss, like in Duke3D..! That would kick SO much ass..! http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif
It's hard to decide what's best..!
Cerberus_e
10-12-2005, 02:23 PM
you can have both, just let the "cutscenes" DURING he game be through duke's eyes (that's the point of that way of telling a story).
AND you can still have cutscenes showing the level in the beginning of a level and finishing moves of the end boss in cutscenes at the end of a level http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
MasterInsan0
10-12-2005, 08:55 PM
Serious Sam 2 uses pre-rendered cutscenes http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif . So some games still use them.
My opinion is that HL2 had the best mix of story-telling and action in an FPS. Ever. There were lulls in the action that served as interactive cutscenes, but it was pretty much pure action between them. That's probably the best way to pull off cutscenes in action games, because even though you're not killing anything you still get to move around and interact with the world.
RPGs like the Final Fantasy series get away with pre-rendered cutscenes for two reasons:
1) They're really beautiful.
2) RPGs are much slower-paced and can afford the shift. Many times, cutscenes are action in RPGs. We all look forward to that next fancy cutscene after all those boring, repetitive fights to level up, and like someone said above, they serve as a reward for your hard work.
In an FPS or any other action-focused game, however, it makes more sense to keep the player in the action, because to be honest, the action is all that many of these games have. That's one of the reasons Serious Sam 2 fell short for me -- all these long-winded cutscenes with mixed humor keep interrupting my killing spree. By the time they're over, I'm lounged back in my chair in "movie-watching" mode, and I have to return to "kill everything" mode.
For all the things Doom3 did wrong, it actually got this part of the formula right. It didn't bore you with hour long cutscenes detailing the story (although it could have used a little more story, in my opinion), and it never cut control for extended periods of times. The times it did were well done, such as the weird possession-like sequences with all the voices and such.
(I never played Far Cry, the other hip, popular shooter, so I dunno how it plays.)
Anyway, what my rant boils down to is that it is probably better for an FPS to leave control in the hands of the player as much as possible so that they're never taken out of the action. That way, you can tell your story without making your players feel like they're watching "DNF: The Movie." In other genres cutscenes can work, but if action is all you've got, don't yank the players out of it to tell your "engaging, cinematic storyline" when you could do it just as well without ruining their adrenaline rush.
LeadBullet
10-12-2005, 09:36 PM
Its going to be weird playing a duke game where we never see Duke aside from maybe in mirrors.
MasterInsan0
10-12-2005, 10:12 PM
LeadBullet said:
Its going to be weird playing a duke game where we never see Duke aside from maybe in mirrors.
Well, it depends on the feel of the game. You didn't see Duke very often in DN3D, really. In the mirrors, holodukes, and cutscenes, and that's about it.
hell-angel
10-13-2005, 01:22 AM
Cerberus_e said:
you can have both, just let the "cutscenes" DURING he game be through duke's eyes (that's the point of that way of telling a story).
AND you can still have cutscenes showing the level in the beginning of a level and finishing moves of the end boss in cutscenes at the end of a level http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
"I am gonna rip you head off and shit down your neck" http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif That is definately something I want so see back. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
MasterInsan0 said:
LeadBullet said:
Its going to be weird playing a duke game where we never see Duke aside from maybe in mirrors.
Well, it depends on the feel of the game. You didn't see Duke very often in DN3D, really. In the mirrors, holodukes, and cutscenes, and that's about it.
That's the best way to go IMO, but that all depends on the game though. And I guess that is what they will do with DNf as well.
Cerberus_e
10-13-2005, 05:43 AM
MasterInsan0 said:
My opinion is that HL2 had the best mix of story-telling and action in an FPS. Ever.
too bad the storytelling was so boring.
I'm all for the method they use, but at least tell the story in a more interesting way than some guy giving lifeless speeches on a TV screen.
Lotan
10-13-2005, 12:10 PM
There is a possibility to see some cutscenes not exacly through Duke's eyes. Duke can watch TV, camera monitor. There could be a TV coverage about "ripping boss head off and shiting down his neck". http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
oak man
10-13-2005, 11:32 PM
as much as i waould love to see high res cinimatics, i voted no. i simply dont think my computer would bre abel to handle it.i hope the guys at 3dr keep in mind that not everyone has a state of the art new computer.i hope to see long awsome cinimatics
-well not too long
-plus they explain the game's story more
Cerberus_e
10-14-2005, 08:46 AM
did you know high res cinematics are a LOT less demanding than DNF?
so forget about playing DNF unless you buy a new computer (which destroys the reason why you voted "no") http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hhg.gif
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