Things you hate in games part II.

[lamuh]

I posted a few months ago things you hate in games. Here's some more:


1) COD-type setups where A.I. team members look in a door waiting for you to go in. This is just lame.

2) Inability to kill NPCs. Freedom in a game is what makes it fun.

3) Not having a gravity gun.

4) Not being able to bunny hop.

5) Not having excessive gore.

6) Guns that spray all over the place for realism sake. (e.g., CounterStrike). There should be no recoil.

7) Duke acting like a wrestling star. No Duke IS based on Ash. Ash was a lame coward that acted brave and super cocky. Characters need to have flaws in order to be liked. No one cares about an invincible "perfect" bad boy.

8) No mouse acceleration and a laggy mouse

9) Weak tinny weapons.

10) Not having variable squish (jib) sounds.

11) Having anything to do with EA.

12) Too serious of enemies. Enemies should be a little lame. Take for instance the assault troopers in Duke 3d. They looked stupid and lame but were more fun to kill say then lamedukes "serious" enemies.

. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/love.gif

Lamuh

[Mr.Sociopath]

1) no 'realistic' effects when walking, shooting, crawling, flying (when everything is static and plays like 90's fps)

2)pointless stuff (room without meaning.. story without feeling.. clothes on female characters ..etc)

3)lack of liberty and interactivity

4)when every ennmies lok the same

5)when every missions look the same

6)when everywhere looks the same

7)mission failed - restart?(if I'm alive, I would like to continue even if the earth as been blown up in that mission failure...thanks http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif)

[Cerberus_e]

other gaming discussions? http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

about point 1: that's because you wouldn't get stuck in call of duty's maze linear levels http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif like in that mansion

about point 2: I like that, how would the story progress otherwise?

about point 3: I like not having a gravity gun, then the developers won't throw in random crap at irrelevant places.

about point 4: why do you want to make games too easy?

ahhh, I'm on a disagree-spree, I'll just continue! http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

about point 5: depends on what type of game: painkiller => gore / Max Payne => not overdone blood

about point 6: 100% agreed, but a tiny little bit of spread is good. just not as overdone as in Call of Duty 2.
shotgun blasts also shouldn't spread a lot, like in doom 3 it is only effective if you are almost hugging the enemy http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

about point 7: no opinion

about point 8: I never have problems with mouse in new games, only in old build engined games http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
it's sometimes weird in the menu though... like moh: pacific assault SP demo

about point 9: they can be weak, but powerful weapons aren't allowed to sound silent (Serious Sam 2 http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif)
I don't want every weapon powerful for the sake of balance. imagine how boring it would be to go through doom 3 with unlimited BFG9K ammo

about point 10: yes!

about point 11: no opinion

about point 12: depends on what game.

[Imfamous]

The lack of a ton of badguys at once. One of the greatest things about Doom 2 was it would send TONS of guys at you at once. It was awesome. More FPSs need to do that.

[SyntaxN]

1) COD-type setups where A.I. team members look in a door waiting for you to go in. This is just lame.


That´s ok for some seconds imo, but then the AI should react and walk into the room without the player!


3) Not having a gravity gun.


Such a weapon is nothing special anymore after you saw it 10x times http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mryuck.gif


-It´s not necessary to have the same reload animation (for example) again, adding some more variations is cool http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif
Same goes for sounds, many different fire, reload etc... sounds are nice!

[Imfamous]

Add to my list any kind of online installation.

[Odin]

1. Boring/stupid/lack of a storyline. All games, in my opinion, need a storyline. Not like in RPGs, but just enough to establish a universe in which you can think about and come up with sidestories in your mind. Games like solitare are exempt from this rule, simply because you can't fit in a storyline, unless you got really silly.

2. Excessive blood/gore/violence. Look, i'm playing a GAME. I don't want to see someone's entrails spill all over a floor with arterial blood spraying from his neck, unless it's nessessary to establish a setting.

3. Lack of a level editor, when possible. I always like to make my own levels for a game that I like. Most games that can utilize a level editor/campaign editor/map editor do have one, so this isn't an issue. Although, when RCT 1 came out, it didn't come with a scenerio editor, so you were stuck with modifying pre-made scenarios to make your own "wannabe" scenarios. That pissed me off.

4. Regestration nag screens after you install a game. I don't want to sign up for your shitty service. Shut up.

5. Anything that attempts to rip off of the Tycoon name by slapping the word "tycoon" on their game and passing it off as a good game. Word of advice: if it has the word "tycoon" in the title and it's not made by Atari, don't buy it.

6. Game demos that limit your playtime of the demo to a certain amount of minutes/instances of opening the file. That drives me nuts.

7. Companies that don't care about their customers. Enough said.

8. Boring/no music. Damnit, I want music. If not all the time, at least during the fight sequences.

[Tang Lung]

Repetitive, dull levels that are all warehouses/factorys/space stations......I like places that are populated in FPS games, like most of Deus Ex's levels. I love City levels with people in em'.

Stupid difficulty where you have to shoot an enemy 100 times to kill them but they only have to shoot you once.

Trendy characters.

[Little Conqueror]

1. A gimmick weapon, like the Soulcube in Doom 3 or the Gravity Gun in Half-Life 2, that you absolutely HAVE to use at some point. If you're going to give me a gravity weapon, then give it to some of my enemies, too, and don't leave sawblades lying around in random places. No, it's NOT subtle. Yes, you ARE broadcasting "Throw these sawblades at zombies with our elite gravity gun, please okay thanks."

2. Enemies being able to use held weapons that you can't. If they hold it, they can drop it.

3. Unwavering perspective. If I'm walking or running, I go up and down a little bit. Not violently, but noticeable.

4. The lack of an "oh crap I have to go NOW" option in games, especially during long loading times.

5. Games that keep going on even though the computer may be lagging because of background processes or something. Ever have a program pop up a dialog while you're in the middle of a firefight? Annoying.

6. Being able to turn 360 degrees in under a quarter of a second. There does need to be an upper limit on turn speed.

7. When there are tiny little ledges or highwires or something and your character is able to move full speed on them while not changing his walking anmiation. With all these physics features, why can't we have just one game where a charcter's feet react realistically to terrain?

[Tim. Just Tim.]

Great topic, lamuh!

Maybe I just have too high standards for games but Im always finding little things that bug me.

1) Cant shoot through walls
Not just walls really, but anything that a real bullet should go through in real life, the bullet should go through in the game. I hate it so much when there is an enemy ducking behind a wooden crate (and dont get me started on wooden crates - the lazy mapper's finishing touches to maps), and you shoot the very corner of the crate but it doesnt hit the bad guy. The collision detection is *too* accurate in this case, and instead of just going through the 5 millimeters of wood, the bullet is stopped.

2) Not enough randmoness!
Its so easy to make things random in games and just a little randmoness goes such a long way. What can be random? Anything! The more the better! Examples:
a) Enemy placement - just great for replay value when the enemies arnt standing in the exact same spot every time you play.
b) Weapons the enemies have (shotgun vs pistol vs rifle)

3) Crappy AI
I often play counterstrike against bots and theyve got it *ALL* wrong. Sure the bots are hard as hell, but that doesnt mean they have good AI. Im sure that a *lot* of work has gone into the CS bots AI, but they could have made them much more *fun* with much less work IMO. They have awesome aim, know exactly where to go at any given time, know exactly how much time until the map ends, or until the bomb blows, and take this all into account. To me, good AI doesnt mean doing the smartest thing in every possible situation. Good AI means *acting like a human* - that means doing random stuff sometimes, doing unpredictable stuff, making the same mistakes a couple of times before learning from them, etc etc. I know GB has said that they arnt really planning on making the AI anything spectacular for this game, which is fine. But please keep in mind that you can make the enemies *fun* rather than *perfect* and its actually *less* work. Win-Win.

Ive got tons more but Ill let this thread fill up first and see if they arnt addressed by someoen else first.

I cant wait for this frikkin game.

[mysteryperfecta]

1. Cliched FPS levels (laboratories, spaceships, offices).
2. Walkways without handrails (that prevent accidental plunges).
3. Story progression in load screens.
4. No NPCs in typically populated areas.
5. Games that would be so much cooler if they would only forgo every bell and whistle and use those polygons/CPU cycles to create a more dynamic environment.

[Michelangelo]

lamuh said:

11) Having anything to do with EA.

. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/love.gif

Lamuh



or Microsoft http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[big fat lazy]

1. Bad guys that always know where you are. I wanna be able to flank enemies or hide from them(though I don't do much hiding).

2. Doors that close by themselves.

3. Low ammo pools. I would like to be able to stock up on alot of ammo for just one weapon. I hate it in some games where you can carry 10 guns at once but not more than 5 clips for each.

4. Alien/space/laser guns. Especially ones that are weak and when the shots travel slowly and are inaccurate.
The only laser gun I really liked was the Gauss Gun from Half-Life.

5. Flamethrowers where the flames extend like 5 feet infront of you, rocket launchers where the rockets travel 5 mph, grenades/bombs/rockets that have an explosion radius of like 5 feet, shotguns that are useless more than 5 feet away, guns that have scopes on their models but can't use them!

6. First person games that force third person view for certain things, and third person games that force first person for certain things.

7. Driving games that don't have a behind-the-wheel cockpit view.

8. Invisible walls(like not being able to go off ledges), not being able to jump over or ontop things that you normally could.

[Simon Charles]

big fat lazy said:
6. First person games that force third person view for certain things, and third person games that force first person for certain things.



GOD YES. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/brickwall.gif http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/brickwall.gif


Here's my top-10 list of things that should not happen in 2005 anymore:

10) Games that try to copy Half-Life by telling the story only with the NPCs, but the script is so badly written that you don't know what the hell is going on.

9) Shotguns that gib enemies instead of propelling them back with force. Apparently it must be fxcking hard to program because I've never seen a game do that (and today, the enemies go ragdoll limp instantly)

8) Cheesy dialog. Please stop it.

7) Lousy voice-acting. PLEASE stop it.

6) Tutorials that don't use or recognize your personnal key configuration. It's SO annoying to rebind all your keys and then have to go through a tutorial that says "Press D to jump", when you've changed D to something else. It feels cheap. Give me a tutorial that's smart enough to use the keys I just rebinded, or don't give me a tutorial at all.

5) Unskippable cutscenes.

4) Unkillable NPCs/sidekicks.

3) Omnipotent enemies with godlike senses who always know where you are.

2) No mouse axis inverting.


And the number one thing I hate in games :


1) Inability to save wherever I want. Yeah, I'm looking at you, Far Cry. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif

[big fat lazy]

Simon Charles said:
6) Tutorials that don't use or recognize your personnal key configuration.
5) Unskippable cutscenes.
1) Inability to save wherever I want. Yeah, I'm looking at you, Far Cry. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif


Ah, forgot about those. Not to mention excessive amounts of cutscenes and cutscenes that last forever.

[Mr.Sociopath]

Simon Charles said:

1) Inability to save wherever I want. Yeah, I'm looking at you, Far Cry. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif



oh yeah..i forgot that one http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
still in some games the autosave/checkpoints were sufficiant.. but manual save is still better

[zubu]

1) games with unsatisfying endings, espically games that have a good story up to the ending, and then after you have finished the game you have felt like you accomplished nothing.

2) games that are built to have at least a decent story but the story could have been alot better but instead must have been written by a 3rd grader, games like Far Cry and to a certain extent doom 3.

3) games that only come on CD and have 5+ install discs that could have easily fit on to a single dvd.

[Little Conqueror]

Here, let me add some more:

- Small, fast, annoying, hard-to-hit enemies. (Especially when they take absurd amounts of damage, like the cherubs in Doom 3.)

- Fearless AI. Yeah, they take cover, but do they ever try to run away?

[Tim. Just Tim.]

mysteryperfecta said:

5. Games that would be so much cooler if they would only forgo every bell and whistle and use those polygons/CPU cycles to create a more dynamic environment.



****in A.

Also, I hate hate hate lightbulbs that dont break when I shoot them with a shotgun. Where the @!#$ do you buy your frikkin lightbulbs at?

If your not going to make the light breakable, dont put it in.

[Fox McCloud]

I hate games where you have to go through a lot of long boring moments where you kill a thousand simular ememies just for the sake of killing them.

Killing a bad guy should be a BIG thing. It shouldn't be like Diablo... gee, I just killed the 200th guy in the last 10 minutes!

Whoop dee doo!

The bad guys should have character, should be actual living, thinking, capable creatures that may have had the chance of killing you!

That, boys, is action.

[JayBiggS]

I hate when you are coasting along at a somewhat steady pace through a game, then out of nowhere you encounter a situation that is too difficult. Its like that certain portion of the game they heighten the difficulty setting, just to piss you off. I've given up on games like that and never played them again. Halo, all of the GTA games, and just too many to count. I usually enjoy these games that use that tactic a LOT until I encounter them. If I cant beat the section after 3-4 reloads, I just get frustrated so much that I never touch the game again.

For example, in games like GTA, where you have to load your save, drive to the mission (it could be a 5 minute drive just to GET to the mission start) and you have to do something dumb like drive all over the city and steal 8 cars and drive them to one location. Your time runs out or you blow up one of the cars because some ped vehicle bumped you at high speed and roll your car. Times like that make it impossible for me to want to try it again. Sometimes I love the game so much, I try it again. Most likely I still mess up or whatever and say screw it.

I buy games to experience the WHOLE thing, not get so pissed off at them that I break my keyboard. I'm a good gamer but I dont have the patience to retry really long/tedious/extremely difficult missions over and over again. Things like boss battles where its quick and easy to restart after dying are usually ok though. I like a challenge, but only if the challenge is consistent. If a game is hard from the start, I should feel confident the whole thing will be like that.

[hell-angel]

Duke is cool, don't change the duke character because it owns all characters out there. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/love.gif

[Seraph]

I think thats part of Duke's appeal:

"Less than a God, more than a man" approach.

I've mentioned before that he's a little bit of what we all wish we were. I believe there is some truth to this.

[The Dukenator]

Go take a look at Mad Magazine September 2005 issue.
It has the 50 Worst Things About Video Games in it.

[hell-angel]

Seraph said:
I think thats part of Duke's appeal:

"Less than a God, more than a man" approach.

I've mentioned before that he's a little bit of what we all wish we were. I believe there is some truth to this.




You are right about that. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

[Huckleberry]

1) I hate not being able to shoot lights out.
2) I hate bloodless or gibless kills
3) I hate instant kills (headshots excluded) I want choking and gasping and last shot sneaks. Or knock an enemy out and he comes to eventually.
4) I hate walking over items and not having an animation to pick them up or use them.
5) I hate hearing the same voice overs every ten seconds.
6) I hate lack of enemy variety.
7) I hate not having cool anticamp like insects that begin to pester you, or rats, or even dust that makes your character sneeze and give himself away.
8) I hate cinematics that don't match the engine.
9) I hate not leaving footprints, bloody, wet, muddy, etc.
10) I hate when enemy skins don't show accurate damage.
11) I hate clipping through stuff.
12) I hate pop-up.
13) I hate twinklies.
14) I hate seams.
15) I hate maps that are all corridors.
16) I hate not having innocents to confuse you.
17) I hate having ammo too readily available.
18) I hate when a game has no personality.
19) I hate not being able to see my feet.
20) I hate not being able to switch to third person.
21) I hate not being able to add models,skins, and sounds.
22) I hate not having good idle animations and sounds.
23) I hate it when there is no profanity, nudity, or adult humor.
24) I hate horrible animation transitions.
25) I hate not being able to go under water.
26) I hate when there is no ambiant life that is a potential hazard. (pirahna, sharks, creepy alien things that crawl on the walls and ceiling.)
27) I hate not being able to play my own music.
28) I hate doors that don't open.
29) I hate unlimited stamina.
30) I hate not being able to shoot tires off of vehicles.
31) I hate when vehicles never run out of fuel.
32) I hate when you can't be poisoned or bleed out and leave a trail of blood.
33) I hate not being able to use disguises or steal uniforms.
34) I Hate not being able to switch hands on-the-fly, or use two different weapons simultaniously.
35) I hate having to end this list because I could go on and on...

[Horizon55]

9) Shotguns that gib enemies instead of propelling them back with force. Apparently it must be fxcking hard to program because I've never seen a game do that (and today, the enemies go ragdoll limp instantly)





They tested that on Mythbusters by shooting a manequin and it didnt fly back it just went limp, and they even had police there to help them with this test. and proved that if someone gets shot they dont fly back.

[Shlubalubs]

The way i see things, certain aspects of a game may vary in annoyance depending on how well they are put into the game.

In RTCW and DOOM3, you had a stupid excessive aim joggle when shot. It was not the only aspect that was poorly put in in these game, but to the point the way the aim joggle when shot thing happens in those games, its unfair wich is ultimatly annoying. In medal of honor frontline, they put in aim joggle when shot perfectly, so that it added to the challenge of the game and ultimatly more fun.

Instantanous death/failure scenarios require skill to be put in properly. In commander Keen, it is put in well so the game gives a fun and challenging task. In other games, ive seen this put in poorly, like in halo with nades lying around that explode then kill you or the sword aliens killing in one swipe is unfairly defeating its player and killing game play.

I buy a game for a fun challenge, not to see inf i can replay an unfair and annoying scenario 10 times before through luck i complete it. Its easy to come up with blanket comments like "i always hate this in a game" but what you need to realise is that these aspects rely on how well they are put into the game to make them a positve or negitave addition

[hell-angel]

Horizon55 said:


9) Shotguns that gib enemies instead of propelling them back with force. Apparently it must be fxcking hard to program because I've never seen a game do that (and today, the enemies go ragdoll limp instantly)





They tested that on Mythbusters by shooting a manequin and it didnt fly back it just went limp, and they even had police there to help them with this test. and proved that if someone gets shot they dont fly back.



hehe, they must have had a hell of a lot of fun testing that. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

[Waiter]

Huckleberry said:
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35) I hate having to end this list because I could go on and on...




"Could"? Looks like you'll find some difficulties finding a game to play. Hope you like knitting...

I hate people who hate.

http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/love.gif

[Rider]

hell-angel said:

Horizon55 said:


9) Shotguns that gib enemies instead of propelling them back with force. Apparently it must be fxcking hard to program because I've never seen a game do that (and today, the enemies go ragdoll limp instantly)





They tested that on Mythbusters by shooting a manequin and it didnt fly back it just went limp, and they even had police there to help them with this test. and proved that if someone gets shot they dont fly back.



hehe, they must have had a hell of a lot of fun testing that. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif



I do believe that that's the point of the show http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[hell-angel]

Waiter said:

I hate people who hate.

http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/love.gif



So, by that definition you hate yourself. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif


Rider said:

hell-angel said:

Horizon55 said:


9) Shotguns that gib enemies instead of propelling them back with force. Apparently it must be fxcking hard to program because I've never seen a game do that (and today, the enemies go ragdoll limp instantly)





They tested that on Mythbusters by shooting a manequin and it didnt fly back it just went limp, and they even had police there to help them with this test. and proved that if someone gets shot they dont fly back.



hehe, they must have had a hell of a lot of fun testing that. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif



I do believe that that's the point of the show http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif



I believe that the point of the show is to prove what is right and what is wrong and have a fun time doing it. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Kristian Joensen]

I really love the mythbusters. Huckleberry, many of the things you hate have been confirmed to be absent from DNF.

[Waiter]

hell-angel said:

Waiter said:

I hate people who hate.

http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/love.gif



So, by that definition you hate yourself. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif




I would never have thought of that myself.
Ever.
I promise.

http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[hell-angel]

Waiter said:

hell-angel said:

Waiter said:

I hate people who hate.

http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/love.gif



So, by that definition you hate yourself. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif




I would never have thought of that myself.
Ever.
I promise.

http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif



hehe, it is normal to hate in other people that what you hate of your self but don't know about unless you really think about it or someone tells you. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[Cerberus_e]

I'd choose "save checkpoints" over "manual saves and no checkpoints" any day

[mysteryperfecta]

Two more:

1. I hate 12 pre-game movies (Vivendi, then Monolith, then the Nvidia logo, then etc.), especially if they're unskippable.

2. I'm sick of ragdoll-only kills. If the last shot the enemy can take is not in the head, or not from a powerful weapon, he should not still drop like a marionette whose strings have been cut. Ragdoll has given us death without dying. Animations give the deaths more substance/impact.

[Kristian Joensen]

Scott agrees with you on your point 1) he has said that if he could he would get rid of ALL those logos.

[crunchy superman]

Kristian Joensen said:
Scott agrees with you on your point 1) he has said that if he could he would get rid of ALL those logos.



Well, if DNF is self-funded as they say, it better not have any.

[Mr.Sociopath]

I just though about no logo and it made me think..imagine a gme that when you load it.. first thing you have is the game beggining ..not even menus to choose crap from..that would be so insanely awsome..(there still could be a way to reach a menu.. out of game or pressing escape or such)
just the fact that you start directly, in the game in first person view would be great http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[Kristian Joensen]

crunchy superman said:

Kristian Joensen said:
Scott agrees with you on your point 1) he has said that if he could he would get rid of ALL those logos.



Well, if DNF is self-funded as they say, it better not have any.



It IS self-funded that doesn't mean that they can get rid of it, there still might be logos because of a contract provision in the publishing contract. If there will be a Take Two logo, there sure as hell will be a 3D Realms logo.


Mr.Sociopath said:
I just though about no logo and it made me think..imagine a gme that when you load it.. first thing you have is the game beggining ..not even menus to choose crap from..that would be so insanely awsome..(there still could be a way to reach a menu.. out of game or pressing escape or such)
just the fact that you start directly, in the game in first person view would be great http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif



This is an ideal 3D Realms shares with you, it is a design principle of their that you should get to play the game as soon as possible and stay in the game as long as possible.

This is the reason for their preference for ADD systems instead of selecting skill level, the deathwalking feature of Prey and the reason they like the game streaming feature of Game XStream so much(Which can also be used from the CD).

This is also the reason they want to get rid of those logos, so the player can start the game as soon as possible.

[Iggy]

Odin said:
3. Lack of a level editor, when possible. I always like to make my own levels for a game that I like.


Same here.


Odin said:
8. Boring/no music. Damnit, I want music. If not all the time, at least during the fight sequences.


Usually quite underestimated feature of a game, good example of a game having the right music would be Serious Sam the second encounter. Those metaltunes during boss-battles/deathmatches where absolutely awesome!

[jaypo90]

Crates.

I beg 3drealms not to put a randomly placed crate chock full o' goodies suspiciously located in an underground sewer; Unless there's a context or reason for the crate being there, like if you're in a crate factory. Or if the game is called "crate maker 2005"

Colour variations of enemies.
RPGs are notorious for doing this. So that quest you got from the shopkeep in hillsbradfuryland who needs ingredients for a potion to cure his ailing daughter/wife/dog doesn't require you to kill bats/bears/trolls/orcs that come in 5 shades of every primary colour.

[Tolle]

I hate it when you can mess up the settings in a game and make it unplayable unless you reinstall the whole thing.

For instance, when you change resolution/AA/sound/... and the game crashes, a restart doesn't help because the game is using the 'crash' settings and you can't change these outside the game executable (unless you know where to look for the settings file or registry entries)

[Cerberus_e]

:s
just delete the config file, games don't story settings in registry.
and it's not difficult to find the config file either since it's mostly names config, or it ends with .cfg extension

[someguy2435]

Having perused through the thread, most of these things are just nit-picky.

Here's my short list:

- Please allow me to save anywhere. If there's a checkpoint only system, make the checkpoints frequent enough so I don't have to backtrack too much. Don't make it no saves at all, that ruins some of the fun.

- Lack of locational damage. I know that some people will want old-styled shooters where it didn't matter where you'd hit, but I'd like to at least be able to headshot someone with a ballistic weapon and get a kill.

- Impossible difficulties. Some games just cruise along and all of a sudden an impossibly difficult portion comes, whether it be a boss fight, mission or level. I doesn't mean it isn't impossible for others, but it is for me and it makes it not fun. Any sort of thing that is so hard to beat and must be completed to progress angers me. Make it a sidequest, or optional.

- Crazy artificial intelligence. I'm talking about enemies are omnipotent. I don't want to spend time sneaking up on an enemy only to have him turn around instantly -- without knowing at all I was there -- and splatter my guts. Nor do I want enemies that take insane amounts of punishment and can swat you like a fly

[Kalki]

Cerberus_e said:
I'd choose "save checkpoints" over "manual saves and no checkpoints" any day



Autosaves, quicksaves & manual saves together own everything and are an industry standard by now (I hope).


someguy2435 said:
- Impossible difficulties. Some games just cruise along and all of a sudden an impossibly difficult portion comes, whether it be a boss fight, mission or level. I doesn't mean it isn't impossible for others, but it is for me and it makes it not fun. Any sort of thing that is so hard to beat and must be completed to progress angers me. Make it a sidequest, or optional.


I don't know about "Impossible". Boss missions and tough puzzles can be incredibly fun if designed well and I think of them as akin to a school's term exams. But I do have a peeve about inconsistent gameplay. It's not a matter of difficulty but the lack of training offered to get to that point that galls. A game should be playtested enough that the skills learned, gained and employed in progress be a consistent part of of its challenges.

In a related note, the problem with some open-ended systems, I've noticed, is that you can bypass a skill/method completely until midway in the game when you get to a point where it becomes impossible to proceed without it. If that was the way of it, the bottleneck should come early on as a minor learning tool. It's basic game design for crying out loud!

[Night Hacker]

Lots of dark hallways with no alternate routes *cough*doom3*cough*. Linear games = very dull.

Enemies that jump out from walls with no particular reason for being in there. If an enemy comes from somewhere, I want some sensible reason as to why he was in the location he was, like an air vent.. but no hidden closets behind walls. Also, no waiting behind closed doors, just standing and staring at the door, waiting for someone to open it.. makes no sense. THINK about where you put your enemies, why they are where you put them, how they got in there and why are they simply standing around instead of hunting, feeding, taking a dump or whatever...

No 3rd person perspective, or at least give me the option of choosing 1st person.

I hate not having enough ammo...

I hate not having enough health...

I hate vague clues of what you need to do, or how to solve a puzzle...

I like manual saves with autosaves at the beginning of each level. (checkpoints or waypoints are also nice, but keep manual)

[Travis]

I hate having like 50 corridors all the same, with 100 doors that look all the same, with many of them locked, so it's like an endless confusing maze of crap.

[Cerberus_e]

Kalki said:

Cerberus_e said:
I'd choose "save checkpoints" over "manual saves and no checkpoints" any day



Autosaves, quicksaves & manual saves together own everything and are an industry standard by now (I hope).




yes, but I was choosing between "checkpoint" or "manual save and no checkpoint" system.
I hate having to bother with saving in games, give me autosaves. ofcourse if you can save manually on top on that it's better, not for me, but for everyone else http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


someguy2435 said:
- Impossible difficulties. Some games just cruise along and all of a sudden an impossibly difficult portion comes, whether it be a boss fight, mission or level. I doesn't mean it isn't impossible for others, but it is for me and it makes it not fun. Any sort of thing that is so hard to beat and must be completed to progress angers me. Make it a sidequest, or optional.



no, not sidequests, because that ruins the fun of a hard part for everyone else that manages to do it.
it feels very satisfacting when completing a hard part when it's part of the main game, than when it's optional, because I don't like to challenge myself in games (chellenging my self in this case = doing the hard part). games should challenge ME.


Kalki said:
I don't know about "Impossible". Boss missions and tough puzzles can be incredibly fun if designed well



I agree, and I hate easy boss fights.
if I can kill a boss in one of the first 5 tries, it failed.

[Kalki]

Cerberus_e said:
I agree, and I hate easy boss fights.
if I can kill a boss in one of the first 5 tries, it failed.


You have a reload fetish or something? I don't think reloads should be a measure of difficulty. That wouldn't give me satisfaction. It should be about maintaining the pressure, keep moving/fighting and never doing anything that constitutes a mistake (being predictable, etc.). Boss environments play a major role, especially if you have to manouvre through hostile environments to keep fighting. And nothing would be better for DNF if the boss actually contributed to the hostile environment by ripping it apart.

I thought Id's games had good solid bossfights and they all seemed easy, compared to some other games. But perhaps that has to do with the learning/solid aspects of gameplay I mentioned, which Id does well.

[Travis]

Boss environments that I've been in have been way too small and not intricate enough. There should be a huge room [or even multiple rooms] with obstacles and columns you can hide behind and they can gradually get destroyed by a firefight and crumble and stuff. I'm sick of boss fights that trap you in like a 32x32 square [I'm exaggerating, but still..] and only give you a rocket launcher or something.

[Michelangelo]

When It's Done http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[laffer]

When levels are very small so the game has to load all the time. That kills immersion for me.
I prefer a longer load at the start of a level and then no loading for a long time.

[Cerberus_e]

laffer said:
When levels are very small so the game has to load all the time. That kills immersion for me.
I prefer a longer load at the start of a level and then no loading for a long time.



I know which game you've been playing http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[silver]

Huckleberry said:
3) I hate instant kills (headshots excluded) I want choking and gasping and last shot sneaks. Or knock an enemy out and he comes to eventually.
34) I Hate not being able to switch hands on-the-fly, or use two different weapons simultaniously.




The first one... really nicely done in ROTT, where they ask for mercy http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

The thing I hate: bad graphics.

[Seraph]

I'm kinda miffed about this:

When you die, you'll know where the enemies are coming from and exactly how to kill them. Now this should be a toggle thing, but why not have multiple attack/spawn points or just randomize encounters. This is something I liked about RPGs. Except for story battles or enemies glued to one location for a purpose, all battles were random.

This is something I would like to see translated into an FPS. Its an idea to toy with. Its something like, "Damn! They got me. Well, I know where to throw the grenades now... Room clear!" Seems a little too easy, and with randomized encounters or multiple attack locations you would forever be like, "Oh, shit. Where am I gonna get jumped from this time..."

Especially useful the second time through! Adds replay value.

Also, long reloads and overly scare ammo are something I hate. Dammit, there should be gun shops where you can be stocked up on a few different types of ammo at one point! Heh... Maybe not that serious. I guess its nice not knowing where your ammo will come from, but I don't like being in a bind or loosing all the ammo I've had and all my weapons. Some games have done that. Even Duke if you don't re-load right!

Those aren't too bad, but they've made things hard many times before. Balance is the only answer I guess.

[Kickassguy]

1) Confusing/needlessly complicated controls. Keep it simple. Stick to the basics.

2) Games that skimp on story.. I love immersing myself in an entertaining storyline. Make it count.

[Kristian Joensen]

"1) Confusing/needlessly complicated controls. Keep it simple. Stick to the basics."

Sticking to the basics, as you call it is a design principle of 3D Realms.

"2) Games that skimp on story.. I love immersing myself in an entertaining storyline. Make it count."

Immersive stories is another design princple of 3D Realms.

[MentalSentinel]

-Time-based missions. I want to be able to take as long as I goddamn want. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tinyted.gif
-Plastic looks. I prefer realistic textures to technically advanced xmapping Shaders.
-Lack of variety.
-Annoying 3PS views. (Basically any 3PS view I've found annoying but MP's...)
-Extreme hardness. I don't want to do a certain section 20 times.
-Extreme amount of load sections. (Chronicles of Riddick Tower levels.. *sigh*)
-For FPS: fast paced vehicle missions are a must. I loved HL²'s helicopter section. So much fun. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/love.gif

EDIT:

1. I hate 12 pre-game movies (Vivendi, then Monolith, then the Nvidia logo, then etc.), especially if they're unskippable.



AGREED!

[Imfamous]

I wanna add that I hate all the modern day Half-Life wannabes. Example: Doom 3. I don't give a shit about walking around a science lab trying to find my boss; I wanna be killing evil SOBs left and right. I hate when there is no action in an FPS for more than 30 seconds. Games need to go back to their oldschool roots and focus on blowing monsters away. I hope DNF's gameplay follow's Prey's model, because that would be ideal.

[Kristian Joensen]

I don't know what you mean by "Prey's model" but isn't it obvious that it will ?

[Imfamous]

Kristian Joensen said:
I don't know what you mean by "Prey's model" but isn't it obvious that it will ?



Prey's model means Prey's gameplay i.e. very action packed and not cheap on the badguys.

Now stop asking stupid questions.

[Kristian Joensen]

What stupid question are you referring to ?

"Prey's model means Prey's gameplay i.e. very action packed and not cheap on the badguys."

I see no reason ot to expect that, because that is in all likelihood a deliberiate design decision and would be very appropriate for a DUke agme.

[Imfamous]

Kristian Joensen said:

I see no reason ot to expect that, because that is in all likelihood a deliberiate design decision and would be very appropriate for a DUke agme.



That's what I was saying...

[Geo-King]

Imfamous said:
Games need to go back to their oldschool roots and focus on blowing monsters away.


DooM3’s gameplay was very old-school.


Imfamous said:
I hope DNF's gameplay follow's Prey's model, because that would be ideal.


You want portals in DNF?

[Kalki]

MentalSentinel said:
-Time-based missions. I want to be able to take as long as I goddamn want. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tinyted.gif



If it takes place over area already explored (like with a self-destruct switch at one end) I don't have a problem with it.

[Cerberus_e]

Imfamous said:
I wanna add that I hate all the modern day Half-Life wannabes. Example: Doom 3. I don't give a shit about walking around a science lab trying to find my boss; I wanna be killing evil SOBs left and right. I hate when there is no action in an FPS for more than 30 seconds. Games need to go back to their oldschool roots and focus on blowing monsters away. I hope DNF's gameplay follow's Prey's model, because that would be ideal.



how is doom 3 a HL wannabe http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mryuck.gif

[Lotan]

Spawning enemies in areas where I have been already.

[Zaarin]

^^On my point of view, D3 tries to be System Shock and misses the target by seven planets from the Sun.

[Twin]

can't type today http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[Micki!]

Zaarin said:
^^On my point of view, D3 tries to be System Shock and misses the target by seven planets from the Sun.



I'm not quoting your message..!
I just want to say Congratulations..! http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[SyntaxN]

Zaarin said:
^^On my point of view, D3 tries to be System Shock and misses the target by seven planets from the Sun.


I can´t agree.... http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Zaarin]

Micki! said:
I just want to say Congratulations..! http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif



Gracias, amigo. How's the group pic coming?

EDIT: Syntax, http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif.

[Cerberus_e]

Zaarin said:
^^On my point of view, D3 tries to be System Shock and misses the target by seven planets from the Sun.



because it's your birthday, I won't say loud I disagree because it's not because they are similar, that doom 3 copies system shock 2. I found system shock 2 not scary while I found doom 3 scary at times on my first time through http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
...but I'mm still thinking it... so happy birthday http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hhg.gif

[Micki!]

Zaarin said:

Micki! said:
I just want to say Congratulations..! http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif



Gracias, amigo. How's the group pic coming?




http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/redface.gif http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif
Haven't begun yet... But don't worry..! You're one of the few i forgot 2 times in a row..! http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/redface.gif so you'll DEFFENATELY appear in the 4'th pic..! http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
I'll begun with it, as soon as i get finished with my recent drawings http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif..! (i'm also making a new Duke Nukem Fanart)

Uhm, back on topic..!

- I hate disappearing bodies..!
- I hate confusing level design..!
- I hate cool weapons with bad/wimpy sound..!
- I hate environments that don't react on quakes/nearby explosions
- I hate to enter a room FILLED with interresting stuff/objects which i can't interact with..!
- I hate Games which contain 'revolutionary' or at least VERY cool stuff, which plays a big role in Singleplayer, but isn't used in multiplayer, making it a regular MP game with NOTHING new at all..! F.E.A.R. did a good thing, by adding the Slow-mo feature in MP, since it's used alot in Singleplayer..! And Doom 3 had the thing with turning off the light in some levels, forcing players to be more carefull (maybe D3's MP isn't that great, but at least it had something other games didn't think off)
- I hate sudden explosions..! There HAS to be a lot of fire and particles..! It's not funny to use a rocket launcher if it doesn't create enough *BOOM* effects..!
- I hate small objects which doesn't react physically correct, because the developpers were too lazy to make it so..!

That's about it, plus some stuff from the previous posts..!

[Zaarin]

^^Funny, I had it other way around and thank for congrats. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Oh, back to topic:
I hate mission where I have to protect some imbesil in a time limit or against uneven odds. They're just frustrating, Jedi Knigh 2 and Max Payne 2 for example.

[Suppressor]

I only hate one thing: WAITING...

[Cerberus_e]

it didn't frustrate me I had to protect someone in max payne 2, but it frustrated me that <table><tr><th><font size="-1">Spoiler below:</font></th></tr><tr><td class="spoiler">I played as that girl http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/doh.gif</td></tr></table>

[Zaarin]

^^Hehee! http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif You dissin Lara also?

[Imfamous]

Geo-King said:
DooM3’s gameplay was very old-school.




Being forced to use a flashlight for half the game, killing 4 guys at once max, and droughts where there is no shooting for over a minute is not old school.


You want portals in DNF?



Go back and read my post. I already explained it. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/doh.gif

[Tim. Just Tim.]

What I really hate the most is when the bodies of killed things dissappear. Or when they just become 'inactive' which isnt much better. Almost all games these days seem to do this and it really really stinks.

Games like Duke3d and doom 10 years ago were able to keep the bodies around. Now that technology is 100 times better and computers are 100 times faster, we somehow cant seem to keep the bodies. Thats bullshit. Graphics are great, dont get me wrong, but if the graphics are so fancy that it makes the game suffer then that is stupid and I hate you.

[Kristian Joensen]

You hate me for that ?

Why ? I have nothing to do with it.

[Cerberus_e]

Zaarin said:
^^Hehee! http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif You dissin Lara also?



the problem isn't I play as a girl (because I like no one lives forever).
the problem is I change characters.
well in call of duty it isn't a problem, but it is in story driven immersive action games http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

[Zaarin]

^^Why you didn't say that in the first place? http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[Cerberus_e]

^^ I thought that was obvious http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif