Ammunition and weapon modifications?

[Gaut]

I was thinking of some diffrent kinds of ammo!

Explosive:
Shotgun - You Shoot the creature and theres a delay after the impact and the explosion like a sec and the explosion gushes blood out of the torso/head or whatever.
SniperRifle - Basicly a SniperRifle but on impact the projectile explodes ripping huge chunks of the targets.

Acid:
Shotgun - Like paintball bullets filled with acid that drenches the monster in acid melting it.
Chaingun - like the shotgun but can be more used to separate bodyparts from the monster since its a more concentrated area of effect.

Gas:
Shotgun - also like paintball bullets but with gas and the projectiles explode on impact making the area poisonous or just knocking the target uncontious so you can freely walk up to the monster and rip his still-beating heart our or something like that (might be a little to violent, but HEY we all like some violence huh?).

Napalm:
Chaingun - Ammo that sets part after part of the body on fire sending them screaming in pain and drenched in flames
Shotgun - Just drenching them in flames upon impact.
RPG - also like Shotgun but maby a little more fire.
Devastator - that gradually turn a entire room to a awsome inferno!

Electric:
this could be done with either bullets that shoot out arcs of lightning at nearby objects and targets or just releasing a enormous burst of electricity on impact making monsters do cool twitching movements and funny sounds http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Chaingun - as explained above
SniperRifle - with a enormous effect/arc that would look cool

Armorpiercing rounds:
And of course the good old armorpiercing bullets that are used against armored targets and also targets behind cover such as walls, cars and stuff in the enviroment.
With SniperRifle/Chaingun/pistol

Now for a little ideas about these kinds of ammo/weapon modifications!
First of with a Holoduke+pipebomb that either autotriggers or remotedetonates (this is used against meleetargets)
Second idea is Tripbombs with diffrent effects? like acid drenching / regular explosion / Gas release / Napalm explosion / Electric discharge...

And now onto how this could affect gameplay?
how about a built-in information archive about the monsters u encounter so that you can "study" the weaknesses of the monsters

for example when you encounter the pigcop the information about it will be added in the informationcenter telling the reader that it has a bulletproof west so regular ammo dont do as much dmg on the torso while the electric ammo will do extra dmg as because the west leads the electricity out faster into the body.
its also a organic creature so acid and fire damage is quite good.
And additional like "shoot brain for extra damage" Also it has low moral wich means it will flee in panic if enough of his friends nearby are killed etc.

About diffrent damagetypes there could be:
Organic targets - Vunerable to Acid, Fire and Gas But somewhat resistant to electricity and regular ammo.
Robotic targets (Metallic) - Vunerable to Electricity and Armorpiercing but resistant to Acid and Fire and immune to Gas.
Robotic Targets (plastic armor) Vunerable to Acid and Fire but Immune to Electricity and Gas.

These are just some ideas i had and i would be happy if someone read and concidered them even if they concider them idiotic, i would like some criticism and feedback on them.
Alot of these things have to be toned down or removed to work in Multiplayer tho...

And a last thing i would love to have. A Throwing Spear weapon! mainly for Multiplayer but also Singleplayer, wouldnt it be nice to just launch a spear right into the torso of someone and have them run around with it stuck there?
That would be kickass way to humilate people http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


/////Gaut out!

[Gatinater]

I was thinking stuff like sound supressors, muzzle breaks and compensators. Optics, such as lasers, aimpoints, optical sights and scopes. Possibly thermal and Nightvisin scopes.

Although over a decade after the intoduction of the first person action genre or first person shooter we still use the same generic crosshair interface. It's possible to sight in with the fixed apertures, but very few games utalize the feature. So offering my upgrades for the guns would be a waste without the ability to sight in a target.

Basically right now from the players view the weapon is at chest level unsupported. Which it can be fired like that relativly accurate at close ranges, but what bothers me is the crosshair. Get rid of that, and make the player experience instinctive aiming and if they want a guide they have to bring it up and sight it in with the apertures.

I say if your going to continue to use the same old stale interface that was used twelve years ago and worked back then because technology couldn't do what it does today, then change that crosshair into a laser. Because that's how we aim them when we don't have time to sight in. We just leave the butt rested against our shoulder or chest and put the laser on our target. Same with the handgun. Have it at chest level with elbow rested on stomach and just put the laser on the target. It's not precise though, but thats why you aim at the stomach. Make sure it hits. Figuring if you fire a few rounds the muzzle will climb and you'll hit the chest too.

The crosshair kills the immersion. That one little tacky guide made within five minutes destroys the immersion that five years of work attempted to create.

Vietcong was the only game that had the right idea. The player could diable crosshairs and only be able to shoot accuratly by sighting in. I think operation flashpoint had the same option too.

[hell-angel]

Gatinater said:
The crosshair kills the immersion. That one little tacky guide made within five minutes destroys the immersion that five years of work attempted to create.




But for most people the crosshair is a must and does not break immersion. Further more, it adds to keep the gameplay less frustrating (because you can more easily see where your aim) and that makes the game more fun.

And GB allways said:
Fun over realism anyday. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Gatinater]

It's too damn easy though. That's what kills the game for me. The crosshair makes it too easy. When a game is too easy.. it's not fun. And that's another problem with shooters. They're just too easy.

When you sight in your periphery is obstructed and depth perception is distorted so since your vision becomes focused on the target you see a great muzzle climb and have to recover and readjust.

I'm so damn use to using the apertures in games such as JO that I do better with those, because I'm so use to to using them. I suck with the crosshair. The spread is so imprecise and I have no idea where my gun actually is when I shoot rapid fire, but with apertures I see exactly where I'm aiming and how far off target I am when my muzzle climbs.

But like I said. replace the crosshair with a laser. and make the laster climb and sway to replace the crosshair spread.

Or simply get rid of the inaccuracy. I don't know where they got the idea from anyway, because it's a farce. It throws me off, because I can have the real gun lased or sighted back in far before the virtual gun's crosshair stabalizes.

[hell-angel]

Gatinater said:
It's too damn easy though. That's what kills the game for me. The crosshair makes it too easy. When a game is too easy.. it's not fun. And that's another problem with shooters. They're just too easy.

When you sight in your periphery is obstructed and depth perception is distorted so since your vision becomes focused on the target you see a great muzzle climb and have to recover and readjust.

I'm so damn use to using the apertures in games such as JO that I do better with those, because I'm so use to to using them. I suck with the crosshair. The spread is so imprecise and I have no idea where my gun actually is when I shoot rapid fire, but with apertures I see exactly where I'm aiming and how far off target I am when my muzzle climbs.

But like I said. replace the crosshair with a laser. and make the laster climb and sway to replace the crosshair spread.

Or simply get rid of the inaccuracy. I don't know where they got the idea from anyway, because it's a farce. It throws me off, because I can have the real gun lased or sighted back in far before the virtual gun's crosshair stabalizes.



You are contradicting yourself, first you say the crosshair makes it to easy and that makes the game less fun, next you say you shoot better without the crosshair which is making it even easier.

Look, I can understand why you don't like the crosshair, but it's there to give a indication of where you are aiming at.
The spread (inaccuracy) is there so you don't have to see the effect of weapon recoil which makes it less fun for most. Some games give to much spread though, but most are acceptable or have no spread at all.

Also, not every weapon has a laser, a laser can be seen by the enemy (which is also not allways wanted) and makes it even easier because you now know exactly where you are aiming at, and according to you "easier" removes some of the fun.

All in all, I am in favor of the crosshair. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Cerberus_e]

I love the crosshair but wouldn't want different ammo types!
I said what I had to say http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

and gatinator, the crosshair doesn't make the game too easy for you... it's the easy combat that does.
turning off the crosshair is very boring for me because it's so frustrating, I want difficulty to depend on the enemies, not on my HUD http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Tang Lung]

Just make the crosshair an optional selection.

I love the idea of modable weapons though..ALOT!

It would be so fun to be able to add upgrades to it somehow that noticibly change the gameplay, similar to the mods in Deus Ex.

Not reallt bothered about the ammo types though, I'd use them and I'd have no problem with them, but it wouldnt really make any defference to me if DNF has that or not.

[big fat lazy]

Gatinater said:
I was thinking stuff like sound supressors, muzzle breaks and compensators. Optics, such as lasers, aimpoints, optical sights and scopes.


Those don't sound like things that Duke would ever need.

[Ca Desert man]

1 duke is a badass that doesn't need stealth
2. in my opinion duke should have several types of rounds available to him but he should have to pick them up each separately like Armor piercing and hollow points.
But I don't think we need fruity magic powers with guns this is a duke game for chrissy sakes
3. What about like tear gas and other things on the grenade launcher
4. Like how about the ability for him to take parts from a gunsmiths shop and modify his pistol and weapons like speed loading, bigger clip sizes and maybe modify the shotgun to accept clips instead of loading single rounds each time?

[roryok]

Gatinater said:
Vietcong was the only game that had the right idea. The player could diable crosshairs and only be able to shoot accuratly by sighting in. I think operation flashpoint had the same option too.



1. Most games let you remove the crosshair

2. Vietcong sucked like a blackhole in the red light district.

[Ca Desert man]

yeah vietcong was the crappiest 1st person shooter I ever played

[roryok]

Ca Desert man said:
yeah vietcong was the crappiest 1st person shooter I ever played



wasn't it awful? There were so many bad bad FPS games in the last few years. Did anyone else play boiling point?

[Mr.Sociopath]

vietcong was great..
boiling point was ..different..


ammunition? orgasmic projectile..to "free" babes that says "kill me" instead of killing them..

modification? cat on the barrel of the gun like in postal 2 http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[roryok]

No I really like the different ammo types idea. I think someone should make a mod for that if it ain't in the game. Can't be that hard to do.

As for things that actually go on the guns.... That means extra models and things, plus pissing about with inventorys and modification windows, sticking on bits. I wouldn't want too much choice. Maybe a buzz-saw on the front.

[PlayfulPuppy]

Crosshairs are fine. Like most things in most games, the crosshairs are nothing more than an approximation of real life.

For example, in games health is normally dictated by a number between 0 and 100. In more tactical games you also have area-specific damage, where a wounded leg might slow you down.

In real life, it's nothing like this. You take a bullet in the chest and you'll probably collapse from shock then slowly die. Take a bullet in the leg and you'd be rolling around for 5 minutes clutching the wound. At best you'd probably move at a snails pace clutching the walls or dragging yourself along the ground. A small medkit, bandages or painkillers won't do anything to make that leg more walkable, you'd be out of action for weeks. Could you imagine a story-based, action-oriented game where you take a single bullet and you're dragging yourself along the ground?

So we simplify it. Take too many bullets and you're dead, but you can give yourself medical attention. A very rough and biased approximation of real-life, but it makes the game easy to understand and fun to play.

Same with crosshairs. The growing/shrinking is an approximation of fixing the sights and lining up a shot without having 8 procedures you have to go through when you want to get a shot off. One of the rules of game design; Make the controls simple. The less buttons the better. The only exceptions to this are sims, where the focus is more on the procedure than the product.

The game puts you in the place of an (Assumably) trained marksman, your character deals with the fiddly shit and you get down to making high-level decisions. Same reason you dont trip over boxes when you're running around a level, you only deal with the high-level stuff.

[edit] BTW: Brothers in Arms was another game that didn't have crosshairs, with you having to use ironsights to have a hope in hell of hitting anything.