lighting, brightness, color

[Tim. Just Tim.]

I just played the quake 4 demo. The game as a lot of stuff going for it... but on the other hand it has a *lot* in common with quake 3 and doom 3 at first glance. The lighting and colors and brightness and the long skiny dark repetitive halways and even the flashlight part all very much reminded me of doom3.

After all the complaints about Doom3 being too dark, Im surprised ID whipped out another dark Doom3 clone. But I suppose its Quake so it will sell no matter what.

I really want DNF to be a game like duke3d where everything was bright and vibrant and colorful and had tons of contrast and everything was easy to see. Ive played the Quake4 demo twice through, and I still dont know what the enemies look like. Its always too dark when you encounter them. They're all the same color: grey/brown, and the walls are all the same color: grey/brown/redish. Its called lack of contrast. The flashlight is better than Doom3's flashlight but its still not great. When you are up close to something, the radius of the beam gets smaller (makes sense) but it doesnt get brighter (doestn make sense). Also, some objects/textures seem to be unaffected by the flashlight and dont get any brighter. It reminds me of doom3 where for some reason blood and burnmarks didnt respond to the flashlight at all, as if they were black holes or something.

At first I wasnt worried about DNF having darkness/contrast/color/lighting problems, because Duke3d never did. But then I realized that while DNF will still be a Duke game, the lighting/color/contrast part probably depends more on the fact that its a 3D game (as opposed to 2D like Duke3d), instead of the fact that its a duke game. If you ever built a map for the Duke3d engine, you know its easy to make things bright and contrasty. Thats because it has nothing to do with lighting or reflective calculations - its just as bright as you tell it to be. When you move to a 3d game, you take some of the brightness control away from the level designers and put it in the hands of the engine programmers.

I dont know where Im going with all this. 3dr, please dont jump on the flashlight bandwagon. Make DNF bright and colorful in all situations. I hope the game doesnt even have a flashlight. Duke3d didnt need one (though nightvision is ok, as long as its not needed for most of the game).

[Cerberus_e]

Tim. Just Tim. said:
After all the complaints about Doom3 being too dark, Im surprised ID whipped out another dark Doom3 clone. But I suppose its Quake so it will sell no matter what.



why would they do that?
just imagine how many people DID NOT complain...
id doesn't have to change their artistic direction because a selected few complain.

and why are you worried about lack of contrast? it isn't easier to do in a 3D perspective game than in a full 3D game as opposed to what you say.
well, things are always faster to do on the build engine than, say, the quake engine... but that's because 3D is more complicated, and EVERYTHING takes longer (not only lightning).
but that doesn't mean they can't make their games bright... or why do you think we still see bright games released?

[Montykoro!]

MMMMMM how about F.E.A.R ? The flash light is great...when you lite up the "dead" corpse you see reflection on ther armor... or the "decal" (aka Burn mark) in the wall...lite very well...

If DNF looks like 2001 trailer or better is fine for me... i got tired of "tecno" demos...(Doom 3...quake 4) and low to zero "game play"... Doom 3 ..monster...dark...monster...dark..dark dark...monster... is very boring.... i hate that game play...

[colmtourque]

I get that some games are meant to be dark, but yeah I like the bright ones better. so amen, ditto...and all that rot.

[Kristian Joensen]

Well the DNF engine does support HDR so I guess it won't be dark. Afterall the complaint is just the opposite with HDR usually.

[zilppuri]

I guess it's easier to make stuff look "cool" with dark tones.

It's same with everything. Just think how many gaming websites have black backgrounds...

Also it isn't really fun to have dynamic lights if you have so bright levels they don't show up http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Montykoro!]

In the real word the summer is very brigth and you see the "dynamic sun system" http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif hahahhaha

I think in the game BF2... all the maps is in "day time" from the sunrise to sunset... and you see the "dynamic light" ... it's a matter of design and art work...

[mysteryperfecta]

I see what you're saying, and I agree. I'd like a nice mix of bright/dark, day/night levels. Although I don't want color/contrast to the extreme of Serious Sam II, which is a mite too cartoony.

[SyntaxN]

Kristian Joensen said:
Well the DNF engine does support HDR so I guess it won't be dark. Afterall the complaint is just the opposite with HDR usually.


HDR allows devs to create "good" looking dark places through having a super great looking light-dark contrast http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Kristian Joensen]

Yes, I know that.

[Tim. Just Tim.]

Kristian Joensen said:
Yes, I know that.



lol

[Viper Knight]

I wonder if there will be any daytime levels in Duke Nukem Forever. Looking back at Duke Nukem 3D and Manhattan Project I'd say probably not. I don't think it would suit the character anyway. Duke Nukem's a night owl...with sunglasses. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

[Tang Lung]

Yep, games are all about frigging shadows now, too dark for my tastes. One of the things I liked about Duke 3D was the city environment, it was colourful and nice. I love the neon scape of city nightime (like Hong Kong in deus ex, vice city etc), so I hope they've got some of that stuff in it.

Down with darkness http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif

[hell-angel]

)
Viper Knight said:
I wonder if there will be any daytime levels in Duke Nukem Forever. Looking back at Duke Nukem 3D and Manhattan Project I'd say probably not. I don't think it would suit the character anyway. Duke Nukem's a night owl...with sunglasses. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif



uhmm, unless I am mistaken, there are several levels in D3D that where set during the day. (or maybe I am mistaken the level brightness for the sky http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif )

[Cerberus_e]

some levels were bright, but if you look at the sky you still see all scycrapers with the lights on in some rooms (E3L3 - Flood Zone for example).

anyway, I like several night/day switches in games. (not real-time, but as you progress to the game it gets darker and darker until it's night, then it gets day again etc...). HL2 is one example (it got night at ravenholm and highway 17 is in the morning http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif)

far cry is an even better example. I want the levels after the night levels look like it's morning (colors more gritty than levels during the noon).
and evening (research level) looks also different than early morning (boat level (not to confuse with carrier level)).
so it's not just night & day http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif also evening, morning http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif which all 4 look different.

[hell-angel]

Cerberus_e said:
some levels were bright, but if you look at the sky you still see all scycrapers with the lights on in some rooms (E3L3 - Flood Zone for example).

anyway, I like several night/day switches in games. (not real-time, but as you progress to the game it gets darker and darker until it's night, then it gets day again etc...). HL2 is one example (it got night at ravenholm and highway 17 is in the morning http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif)

far cry is an even better example. I want the levels after the night levels look like it's morning (colors more gritty than levels during the noon).
and evening (research level) looks also different than early morning (boat level (not to confuse with carrier level)).
so it's not just night & day http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif also evening, morning http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif which all 4 look different.



I like it. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Magnamuz]

Cerberus_e said:

Tim. Just Tim. said:
After all the complaints about Doom3 being too dark, Im surprised ID whipped out another dark Doom3 clone. But I suppose its Quake so it will sell no matter what.



why would they do that?
just imagine how many people DID NOT complain...
id doesn't have to change their artistic direction because a selected few complain.



First, I've never heard of anyone complaining about normal lighted games that should be darker and always in need of a flashlight....


And second, I totally agree, Doom3=Quake4=DarkShitHappening!

Action games means seeing/controling what's happening and not expecting things to come out behind pipes every time you open a door and repeat it all across the game.

The fun part of Duke3D were the scenes (apart from the babes), cities, malls, deserts, even Lunar Apocalyps looks cool being open spaced ships with LIGHTS, and it gives the same scary impresion of dark nowadays games all underground and away from destroyable cities with real interactivity on it. And less fun would be a darky Las Vegas.... http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/doh.gifwhat a waste!

I hope 3Drealms takes this in account for DNF and future Duke games, dark it's not his style http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

[hell-angel]

Magnamuz said:

Cerberus_e said:

Tim. Just Tim. said:
After all the complaints about Doom3 being too dark, Im surprised ID whipped out another dark Doom3 clone. But I suppose its Quake so it will sell no matter what.



why would they do that?
just imagine how many people DID NOT complain...
id doesn't have to change their artistic direction because a selected few complain.



First, I've never heard of anyone complaining about normal lighted games that should be darker and always in need of a flashlight....


And second, I totally agree, Doom3=Quake4=DarkShitHappening!

Action games means seeing/controling what's happening and not expecting things to come out behind pipes every time you open a door and repeat it all across the game.

The fun part of Duke3D were the scenes (apart from the babes), cities, malls, deserts, even Lunar Apocalyps looks cool being open spaced ships with LIGHTS, and it gives the same scary impresion of dark nowadays games all underground and away from destroyable cities with real interactivity on it. And less fun would be a darky Las Vegas.... http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/doh.gifwhat a waste!

I hope 3Drealms takes this in account for DNF and future Duke games, dark it's not his style http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif



Yeah, dark settings are a bit overused nowadays. Doesn't mean it sucks though. But I do hope that DNF is a little less dark. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Cerberus_e]

Magnamuz said:

Cerberus_e said:

Tim. Just Tim. said:
After all the complaints about Doom3 being too dark, Im surprised ID whipped out another dark Doom3 clone. But I suppose its Quake so it will sell no matter what.



why would they do that?
just imagine how many people DID NOT complain...
id doesn't have to change their artistic direction because a selected few complain.



First, I've never heard of anyone complaining about normal lighted games that should be darker and always in need of a flashlight....



that's not a correct way of reasoning...
have you seen anyone complaining some games don't have a jetpack? according to your logic they can cut the jetpack then from duke3D.

[BabyFace]

I agree with everyone who wants the bright, nice daytime city maps back. They were so much more pleasing to look at than the repetitive, boring dark Quake hallways.

Having said that, I'm glad DNF is based on Unreal technology, because personally I prefer Unreal graphics much over the shiny metallic-look of Doom3 and its clones. And it can handle wide, open areas, so I'm confident we'll get our bright, eye-friendly daytime maps back.

As for the jetpack: Of course it must be in again. And - as has been said countless times before (like everything posted nowadays in this forum) - I want it to be "shootable". Shoot the jetpack on the back of a flying oponent, and he will begin to fly around like a loose rocket uncontrollably for a while until he either crashes into an obstacle or the pack exlodes on his back. Either way should be very funny to watch in MP.

[hell-angel]

BabyFace said:
I agree with everyone who wants the bright, nice daytime city maps back. They were so much more pleasing to look at than the repetitive, boring dark Quake hallways.



But not to bright though. And some dark levels/places are fun to. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif IMO that is. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif


Having said that, I'm glad DNF is based on Unreal technology, because personally I prefer Unreal graphics much over the shiny metallic-look of Doom3 and its clones. And it can handle wide, open areas, so I'm confident we'll get our bright, eye-friendly daytime maps back.




Uhm, they only use the very base of the Unreal engine, most of it has been rewritten so the fact that Unreal can handle it doesn't mean that DNF can. Als doesn't mean that DNF can't though, so don't make any assumptions on that.



As for the jetpack: Of course it must be in again. And - as has been said countless times before (like everything posted nowadays in this forum) - I want it to be "shootable". Shoot the jetpack on the back of a flying oponent, and he will begin to fly around like a loose rocket uncontrollably for a while until he either crashes into an obstacle or the pack exlodes on his back. Either way should be very funny to watch in MP.



But annoying in SP I reckon.

[BabyFace]

hell-angel said:


Having said that, I'm glad DNF is based on Unreal technology, because personally I prefer Unreal graphics much over the shiny metallic-look of Doom3 and its clones. And it can handle wide, open areas, so I'm confident we'll get our bright, eye-friendly daytime maps back.




Uhm, they only use the very base of the Unreal engine, most of it has been rewritten so the fact that Unreal can handle it doesn't mean that DNF can. Als doesn't mean that DNF can't though, so don't make any assumptions on that.




True. The age-old engine story... But I have faith in 3DR. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif





As for the jetpack: Of course it must be in again. And - as has been said countless times before (like everything posted nowadays in this forum) - I want it to be "shootable". Shoot the jetpack on the back of a flying oponent, and he will begin to fly around like a loose rocket uncontrollably for a while until he either crashes into an obstacle or the pack exlodes on his back. Either way should be very funny to watch in MP.



But annoying in SP I reckon.



Ah, right. I guess that would indeed be quite annyoing. So they could make it an optional server-setting for MP (like an Unreal mutator).

[Cerberus_e]

BabyFace said:
Having said that, I'm glad DNF is based on Unreal technology, because personally I prefer Unreal graphics much over the shiny metallic-look of Doom3 and its clones. And it can handle wide, open areas, so I'm confident we'll get our bright, eye-friendly daytime maps back.



that has very little to do with the engine.
if you want to see bright doom 3 environments, watch the prey E3 trailer and take a look at that cave with the old man.
also, whether or not a game will have outdoor environments also doesn't depend much on the engine.
any 3D engine can do them. (as far as the engine cares, they're just rooms without ceiling)
as for the "metallic" part, I think you're confusing engine with art direction (like many people do)

[Tim. Just Tim.]

Cerberus_e said:

BabyFace said:
Having said that, I'm glad DNF is based on Unreal technology, because personally I prefer Unreal graphics much over the shiny metallic-look of Doom3 and its clones. And it can handle wide, open areas, so I'm confident we'll get our bright, eye-friendly daytime maps back.



that has very little to do with the engine.
if you want to see bright doom 3 environments, watch the prey E3 trailer and take a look at that cave with the old man.
also, whether or not a game will have outdoor environments also doesn't depend much on the engine.
any 3D engine can do them. (as far as the engine cares, they're just rooms without ceiling)
as for the "metallic" part, I think you're confusing engine with art direction (like many people do)



All of this is quite wrong. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif



Cerberus_e said:
if you want to see bright doom 3 environments, watch the prey E3 trailer and take a look at that cave with the old man.



The prey engine is a [u]modified</u> version of the doom3 engine.


Cerberus_e said:
also, whether or not a game will have outdoor environments also doesn't depend much on the engine.



No, some engines are definetly better suited for outdoor environments. Different algorithms and datastructures are typically needed for outdoor vs indoor


Cerberus_e said:
as for the "metallic" part, I think you're confusing engine with art direction (like many people do)




The 'metallic' part has to do with the rendering part of the engine - the shaders or the bump mapping or something like that. In any case, its really the engine and not the art (textures) that gives doom3 that shiny plastic/metal feel.

[Cerberus_e]

Tim. Just Tim. said:

Cerberus_e said:

BabyFace said:
Having said that, I'm glad DNF is based on Unreal technology, because personally I prefer Unreal graphics much over the shiny metallic-look of Doom3 and its clones. And it can handle wide, open areas, so I'm confident we'll get our bright, eye-friendly daytime maps back.



that has very little to do with the engine.
if you want to see bright doom 3 environments, watch the prey E3 trailer and take a look at that cave with the old man.
also, whether or not a game will have outdoor environments also doesn't depend much on the engine.
any 3D engine can do them. (as far as the engine cares, they're just rooms without ceiling)
as for the "metallic" part, I think you're confusing engine with art direction (like many people do)



All of this is quite wrong. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif




we'll see about that http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tinyted.gif


Tim. Just Tim. said:

Cerberus_e said:
if you want to see bright doom 3 environments, watch the prey E3 trailer and take a look at that cave with the old man.



The prey engine is a [u]modified</u> version of the doom3 engine.




so is every engine licensed (except quake 4 but that one is an exception).
also, I don't think the doom 3 engine is modified so bright areas are possible, because they have always been possible, and that's the point http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


Tim. Just Tim. said:

Cerberus_e said:
also, whether or not a game will have outdoor environments also doesn't depend much on the engine.



No, some engines are definetly better suited for outdoor environments. Different algorithms and datastructures are typically needed for outdoor vs indoor




there are going to be some differences, but the fact that every 3D engine for first person shooters can do outdoor areas remains http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


Tim. Just Tim. said:

Cerberus_e said:
as for the "metallic" part, I think you're confusing engine with art direction (like many people do)




The 'metallic' part has to do with the rendering part of the engine - the shaders or the bump mapping or something like that. In any case, its really the engine and not the art (textures) that gives doom3 that shiny plastic/metal feel.



ah, I thought he was talking about how both doom 3 and quake 4 were set in metallic environments.
either way it doesn't matter because I've never noticed metallic look in, for example, rocks.
yes, they are ugly, but that's the low res texture that's to blame http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[SyntaxN]

Tim. Just Tim. said:
The prey engine is a [u]modified</u> version of the doom3 engine.


The question how much was modified remains, it can mean 99% new code or just changes to build in feature xy.



Tim. Just Tim. said:
Different algorithms and datastructures are typically needed for outdoor vs indoor


So really?
AFAIK you´ve to add a LOD and that´s it for the basic stuff http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif



Tim. Just Tim. said:
The 'metallic' part has to do with the rendering part of the engine - the shaders or the bump mapping or something like that. In any case, its really the engine and not the art (textures) that gives doom3 that shiny plastic/metal feel.


Wrong, it´s all about modifying art at this point.

[Micki!]

Magnamuz said:


The fun part of Duke3D were the scenes (apart from the babes), cities, malls, deserts, even Lunar Apocalyps looks cool being open spaced ships with LIGHTS, and it gives the same scary impresion of dark nowadays games all underground and away from destroyable cities with real interactivity on it. And less fun would be a darky Las Vegas.... http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/doh.gifwhat a waste!

I hope 3Drealms takes this in account for DNF and future Duke games, dark it's not his style http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif



Actually, i'd want a blackout to happen somehow in a level (not the whole level through though, just minor part of it) Then Duke could make some Doom3 spoofs meanwhile "Heh, just because there's no light, it doesn't mean i'm doomed" or when people are screaming because of the blackout while being attacked by aliens: "Oh no, we're doomed" - "now where's that friggin flashlight" - "i saw this one coming"... http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

C'mon, don't you want this to happen at some point..? http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

[Zorgblub]

These ones are excellent ! http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[hell-angel]

SyntaxN said:

Tim. Just Tim. said:
Different algorithms and datastructures are typically needed for outdoor vs indoor


So really?
AFAIK you´ve to add a LOD and that´s it for the basic stuff http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif




And the algorithms for the moving sky. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif and LOD is not required, but definately wanted for obvious reasons. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif




Tim. Just Tim. said:
The 'metallic' part has to do with the rendering part of the engine - the shaders or the bump mapping or something like that. In any case, its really the engine and not the art (textures) that gives doom3 that shiny plastic/metal feel.


Wrong, it´s all about modifying art at this point.



Wrong, it's both. The art defines most of the look, but the lighting system of the engine (there are multiple kind) defines how it all looks in the end. Doesn't mean that every game on the Doom 3 engine has to look like doom 3 though. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[BabyFace]

Never mind. I really didn't want to start another annoying and useless engine discussion. All I'm saying is that I don't really like the look of Doom3 very much. But even that is irrelevant, the only important issue here is THAT 3DR BRINGS BACK BRIGHT CITY LEVELS! YOU HEAR ME?
http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[hell-angel]

BabyFace said:
Never mind. I really didn't want to start another annoying and useless engine discussion. All I'm saying is that I don't really like the look of Doom3 very much. But even that is irrelevant, the only important issue here is THAT 3DR BRINGS BACK BRIGHT CITY LEVELS! YOU HEAR ME?
http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif



http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif Serious Sam 2 had them as well. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Magnamuz]

Micki! said:

Magnamuz said:


The fun part of Duke3D were the scenes (apart from the babes), cities, malls, deserts, even Lunar Apocalyps looks cool being open spaced ships with LIGHTS, and it gives the same scary impresion of dark nowadays games all underground and away from destroyable cities with real interactivity on it. And less fun would be a darky Las Vegas.... http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/doh.gifwhat a waste!

I hope 3Drealms takes this in account for DNF and future Duke games, dark it's not his style http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif



Actually, i'd want a blackout to happen somehow in a level (not the whole level through though, just minor part of it) Then Duke could make some Doom3 spoofs meanwhile "Heh, just because there's no light, it doesn't mean i'm doomed" or when people are screaming because of the blackout while being attacked by aliens: "Oh no, we're doomed" - "now where's that friggin flashlight" - "i saw this one coming"... http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

C'mon, don't you want this to happen at some point..? http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif



Yes, of course, I was just refering to whole games being darkish. Blackouts and sewers moments are totally legitimate (I repeat, "moments", not stories, moments)



Cerberus_e said:

Magnamuz said:

Cerberus_e said:

Tim. Just Tim. said:
After all the complaints about Doom3 being too dark, Im surprised ID whipped out another dark Doom3 clone. But I suppose its Quake so it will sell no matter what.



why would they do that?
just imagine how many people DID NOT complain...
id doesn't have to change their artistic direction because a selected few complain.



First, I've never heard of anyone complaining about normal lighted games that should be darker and always in need of a flashlight....



that's not a correct way of reasoning...
have you seen anyone complaining some games don't have a jetpack? according to your logic they can cut the jetpack then from duke3D.



Neither I have against jetpacks, but the problem is not a detail like jetpacks, is a whole game being repetitive, always the same, instead of expecting real action you pass almost all the game trying to see something, worrying about lighting corners/objects to see what the hell are they and not knowing if you already passed through the same hallway again.

The other day I was playing Doom 3 and my brother came in and asked if I was still in the first chapter due to the scene while actually I was almost finishing the game. There you realise that you didn't see much, and all the screenshots you took or see from the internet are the same room, different monster.

Games like Doom 3 or Quake 4 (it's the same) are "options", at least FOR ME, but Duke Nukem is a feeling, and I really care about how it looks and how much will I enjoy it.

[Viper Knight]

BabyFace said:
I agree with everyone who wants the bright, nice daytime city maps back. They were so much more pleasing to look at than the repetitive, boring dark Quake hallways.


Duke Nukem 3D did NOT have bright daytime city maps. Heck, the last time I played the game the city maps were quite dark and moody as probably was intended.

I think I want Duke Nukem Forever to be a dark game. It matches Duke's style. But not so dark you need a flashlight or night-vision goggles for the majority of the way.

But yes, I know what people are saying. Quake had this very bland colour scheme where all you saw most of the time was brown. Duke Nukem 3D was still a dark game but it had a high-tech visage that Quake didn't have because that had a more gothic type of theme. But there shouldn't be any cause for worrry of Duke Nukem Forever's contrast there.

Let's not forget also that there are usually gamma corrections controls that you can adjust within these types of games, not to mention the brightness knob on your monitor (unless it's already at 100% that is http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif).

[Malgon]

I'd say with JonoF's pack everything seems naturally brighter compared to just standard Duke3D, but I could be wrong. And yes I know there are brightness controls to adjust these things. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
But all I'm saying is that whether bright or dim, I could still see everything in Duke3D, and thats all I'd need to be happy. It's not D3 (which is dark due to engine design, if im correct), and its not set in the dank corridors of Mars, so visible night settings with lots to look at and I can actually see would be the way to go in DNF I think. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Magnamuz]

Viper Knight said:
Duke Nukem 3D did NOT have bright daytime city maps. Heck, the last time I played the game the city maps were quite dark and moody as probably was intended.

I think I want Duke Nukem Forever to be a dark game. It matches Duke's style.



As I recall, Shrapnel City, Out In DC (what a game) or Caribean, apart from others, all have daytime city maps and/or sceneries, which they looked as cool as every other map.

http://www-tet.ee.tu-berlin.de/solyga/DUKE3D/PICS/uptown_0.jpg http://independent-software.jareks.net/pc/archive/screens/duke_nukem_3d_caribbean_vacation.gif http://www-tet.ee.tu-berlin.de/solyga/DUKE3D/PICS/penthous.jpg http://www.artpeter.net/Data/Duke/Pictures/Stadion04.jpg http://www-tet.ee.tu-berlin.de/solyga/DUKE3D/PICS/hotela_0.jpg http://www.artpeter.net/Data/Duke/Pictures/Stadion02.jpg

I disagree dark games matches Duke's style, but I must admit that night lighted-city maps are his best and suit him very well.



Viper Knight said:
Let's not forget also that there are usually gamma corrections controls that you can adjust within these types of games, not to mention the brightness knob on your monitor (unless it's already at 100% that is http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif).



Dark games are ment to be dark, nothing you can adjust in games like Doom 3 lets you see correctly, and the few bright lights would hurt your eyes, it's a shame it's not that simple http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif