Is FEAR simply the best FPS ever?

[johny2905]

For me, yes. It has something that other FPS's don't have. It took almost everything from other FPS's, but it's still original in its own way, and that's why I like it so much. No weapons sound and react like those in FEAR. There's no better mix of HORROR and FPS. Malee is just so good, action is surely the best there is. I didin't see any FPS so brutally satisfying as FEAR!

What do you think ppl?

[Wamplet]

Nay.

[Tedski]

Wamplet said:
Nay.


heheh http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[Opus131]

Tedski said:
Is FEAR simply the best FPS ever?




No...

[Damien_Azreal]

All depends on your personal opinion and taste.

For me, it's not the best of all time... but it is the best this year.

[The Puppet Master]

Halo 2 on Xbox live pwns all.

[Damien_Azreal]

The Puppet Master said:
Halo 2 on Xbox live pwns all.



HA! http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/doh.gif Oh sorry, were you serious?

[The Puppet Master]

I should of known I'd get made fun of for that one. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/doh.gif

[Drazula]

It's near the top of my list. I'd say: Far Cry, Doom, F.E.A.R., Quake 4, Half-Life, Serious Sam and Chronicles of Riddick are my top seven.

[avatar_58]

DOOM is still my fav, no matter what http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif Hell, I'm making my own levels and content for Skulltag! http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif Great lasting hold on me.

However FEAR comes in as the best of 2005, and my personal 2nd best. It is fun as hell, and the multiplayer is actually WORTH playing unlike half of games out there.

Best ever? Well....nostalgia and fun still make me choose Doom....but best of next gen I would say yes.

[Travis]

I need to give it some time, as you do with most things, to get a better perspective. Next year I'll be able to tell you whether it stands the test of time and whether I like it as much. But it's certainly GOTY by far, for me.

[Tedski]

Opus131 said:

Tedski said:
Is FEAR simply the best FPS ever?




No...



Hang on a minute.... I've not even played a demo of it - all I did was quote Wamp and be amused by what he said! http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

[Marty]

no, i just really didnt get into it as much as i hoped

[ZuljinRaynor]

Drazula said:
It's near the top of my list. I'd say: Far Cry, Doom, F.E.A.R., Quake 4, Half-Life, Serious Sam and Chronicles of Riddick are my top seven.


What about Duke!?

[Steve]

Is FEAR simply the best FPS ever?


That honor belongs to Duke Nukem 3D http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

That, and I still haven't got my hands on a copy of FEAR yet.

[X-Vector]

There is no such thing as the best FPS ever.

[Paroxysm]

Fear? Nope.

[Orochi Avlis]

I think the game is just awesome.
It really draws you in.

I'm playing it on the hardest diificulty setting, and you really need to out think these these guys.

And the multiplayer is just great fun.

Who cares that melee attacks take away armor?(reference to the other thread)
Oh boohoo.

The moment games become too realistic, they lose their fun factor.

[Daveman]

Half-Life 2 and Call of Duty were better, and I'm sure there are more that I haven't played. That's considering only single-player.

[Lethe]

It is one of the best definitely. Imo

[Drazula]

avatar_58 said:
However FEAR comes in as the best of 2005, and my personal 2nd best. It is fun as hell, and the multiplayer is actually WORTH playing unlike half of games out there.

Best ever? Well....nostalgia and fun still make me choose Doom....but best of next gen I would say yes.


F.E.A.R. multiplayer is the best in gaming. It is why I put it above games like Quake 4.

Mod community listen up... if you want to break into gaming expand F.E.A.R.'s multiplayer. Start at F.E.A.R.'s Mod Wiki! (http://www.feargame.net/wiki/index.php/Main_Page)

[NetNessie]

The Puppet Master said:
Halo 2 on Xbox live pwns all.



Whats with this thread and stupid remarks.

[Vivi]

F.E.A.R. ranks in my top five, but it aint number one.

[Opus131]

Tedski said:
Hang on a minute.... I've not even played a demo of it - all I did was quote Wamp and be amused by what he said! http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif



Quoted the wrong person. Discard... http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[ZuljinRaynor]

Drazula said:F.E.A.R. multiplayer is the best in gaming. It is why I put it above games like Quake 4.


Wait, you mean the multiplayer lots of people have said is the biggest piece of crap in that game? Whoa. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/redface.gif

[Orochi Avlis]

I really like how the death animations.

I was just playing on the hardest difficulty setting, and I turned a corner (surprsing both me and the enemy).

I go for slow-mo and shoot at his leg with the shotgun. Since it was so close, he leg goes reeling back and he does a diagonal flip of sorts firing off his weapon.

It brought a tear to my eye.

[Jokke_r]

There are no death animations, it's all dynamic via ragdolls

[hell-angel]

Ever? No, there was also a game called Duke Nukem 3D which still holds that title in my book. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/love.gif

As for 2005, I prefer Quake4, although F.E.A.R. is a close second. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[SyntaxN]

Is FEAR simply the best FPS ever?


No way imo http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
And for the mp, yes it´s fun for some time (beta http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif) but now I can´t see it anymore...

[Orochi Avlis]

Jokke_r said:
There are no death animations, it's all dynamic via ragdolls


I know. I don't know what the hell I was thinking when I wrote that.
And the "I love the how death animations remark".

I must have been really dead tired and have been fully aware of what I was doing. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[Drazula]

ZuljinRaynor said:

Drazula said:F.E.A.R. multiplayer is the best in gaming. It is why I put it above games like Quake 4.


Wait, you mean the multiplayer lots of people have said is the biggest piece of crap in that game? Whoa. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/redface.gif


F.E.A.R. multiplayer, a piece crap?? You must be talking to RPG fans... or fans of the outdated Counter-Strike... same thing.

[SyntaxN]

Drazula said:

ZuljinRaynor said:

Drazula said:F.E.A.R. multiplayer is the best in gaming. It is why I put it above games like Quake 4.


Wait, you mean the multiplayer lots of people have said is the biggest piece of crap in that game? Whoa. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/redface.gif


You must be talking to RPG fans... or fans of the outdated Counter-Strike... same thing.


http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
True...

[FireFly]

Drazula said:
F.E.A.R. multiplayer, a piece crap?? You must be talking to RPG fans... or fans of the outdated Counter-Strike... same thing.


Girly-men?

[Mountain Man]

For me, Half-Life and Half-Life 2 are tied as the best ever. Everything else I've ever played has been a distant second.

[Drazula]

FireFly said:

Drazula said:
F.E.A.R. multiplayer, a piece crap?? You must be talking to RPG fans... or fans of the outdated Counter-Strike... same thing.


Girly-men?


Of course... http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Cerberus_e]

Return to Castle Wolfenstein is the best http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
and Doom 3 http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Jokke_r]

It was fun when i played it but it left a bitter taste afterwards. The gameplay and action was the best and almost the only thing FEAR did well except for the gorgeus graphics of course. Level design was good for the most part but tediously monotone. I got so god damn bored in that office building which was unnaturally dark to begin with and i don't like running in the dark where i can't see where i'm going. I'd imagine real life office buildings are properly lit.

The story was badly put together imo, or the way it's presented actually. And in the end the story was just plain dull and lame. Thought the whole thing with the girl was such a ripoff from the Ringu film series. And last of all i just didn't like the atmosphere of the game. There have been too many dark "scary" games and i just don't like playing those kind of titles anymore. Supernatural themes often don't excite(sp?) me. Don't get me wrong i like fantasy and sci-fi, but ghosts and paranormal stuff in the "real" world just doesn't do it for me.

Overall i give it an 7.5 out of 10 cos of the awesome looking/sounding gameplay. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Worth the buy but the replay value is low in my opinion.

[Denz]

Orochi Avlis said:
I think the game is just awesome.
It really draws you in.

I'm playing it on the hardest diificulty setting, and you really need to out think these these guys.

And the multiplayer is just great fun.

Who cares that melee attacks take away armor?(reference to the other thread)
Oh boohoo.

The moment games become too realistic, they lose their fun factor.




Best comment so far.




I got so god damn bored in that office building which was unnaturally dark to begin with and i don't like running in the dark where i can't see where i'm going. I'd imagine real life office buildings are properly lit.




Well with a girl that kills whoever passes in her way, i think it can be possible.

[Mountain Man]

Jokke_r said:
I got so god damn bored in that office building which was unnaturally dark to begin with...


That's the downside of an over-reliance on stencil shadows. Doom 3 was the same way.

[Cerberus_e]

I think that's the upside, and I prefer the way shadows are in FEAR and doom 3 over pre-rendered ones http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[SyntaxN]

I think stencil shadows fit perfect with DOOM³, but FEAR uses those kinda more realistic setting and there they don´t look that good...

[Drazula]

I've played F.E.A.R. without the stencil shadows. Talk about a step back to 2002. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mryuck.gif No thanks.

[Jokke_r]

FEAR doesn't even have proper lightmaps under those stencils.

I bet it would look lot more authentic if it had prope radiosity rendered lightmaps.

[NutWrench]

I've only played the FEAR demo. I thought it was ok, but as far as gameplay went, it seemed to me like Half Life 1 + Ghosts.

[laffer]

I think Doom is the best FPS ever.. I don't know what the game has exactly, it's just so damn fun and addictive and I never tire of it.
Doom 3 is the one I like the most out of the modern FPS games (Painkiller and Far Cry are almost as good, but not quite).

[ZuljinRaynor]

Drazula said:

ZuljinRaynor said:

Drazula said:F.E.A.R. multiplayer is the best in gaming. It is why I put it above games like Quake 4.


Wait, you mean the multiplayer lots of people have said is the biggest piece of crap in that game? Whoa. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/redface.gif


F.E.A.R. multiplayer, a piece crap?? You must be talking to RPG fans... or fans of the outdated Counter-Strike... same thing.


CS 1.5 forever!111oneone

[thefly]

Rise of the Triad! Ludicrous Gibs, God mode, Dog mode, the Baseball bat. Joe Siegler as a villain...come on, you can't beat that.

[Mountain Man]

Cerberus_e said:
I think that's the upside, and I prefer the way shadows are in FEAR and doom 3 over pre-rendered ones http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


And I appreciate your opinion, but it's pretty well known that precalculated shadows currently look more natural with the obvious trade-off that they're static. So you either get real-time shadows that largely look unnatural or static shadows that look natural, and personal opinion dictates which you prefer. Of course, real-time radiosity is the holy grail, but we're several years away from anything like that.

Personally, I think UE 3 has the best solution at the moment, combining the two technologies and allowing the level desiger to decided which to use based on the needs of the level.

[SyntaxN]

Mountain Man said:
Personally, I think UE 3 has the best solution at the moment, combining the two technologies and allowing the level desiger to decided which to use based on the needs of the level.


Yep, Epic took id´s tech and made the next logical step (don´t try to get me wrong, I´m not talking about stealing)...but I expect that to be outdated really soon because the nextgen consoles should be able to do everything with softshadows http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[thefly]

I always use shadows as my measuring stick for how good a game is. Those shadows are just so damn important to the plot and action! http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[Mountain Man]

SyntaxN said:
I expect that to be outdated really soon because the nextgen consoles should be able to do everything with softshadows http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif


Even the FEAR engine can do soft shadows, but it sticks you with a pretty massive framerate hit. As I understand it, the current implementation of real-time soft shadows is just a variation of real-time stencil shadows (instead of a single light source, it uses multiple light sources and blends the resulting shadows together), but even that technique has similiar problems, mainly, a complete lack of reflected light.

Seems to me the best solution is to use stencil shadows only where absolutely necessary and pre-calc for everything else, because rendering static scenery and objects with real-time shadows is just a waste of resources.

[SyntaxN]

Mountain Man said:
Even the FEAR engine can do soft shadows, but it sticks you with a pretty massive framerate hit. As I understand it, the current implementation of real-time soft shadows is just a variation of real-time stencil shadows (instead of a single light source, it uses multiple light sources and blends the resulting shadows together), but even that technique has similiar problems, mainly, a complete lack of reflected light.



Yeah the actuall way to create "softshadows" is that they´re using multiple lightsources, but the UE3 really softs them through a heavy use of shaders...what makes them look really good.



Mountain Man said:Seems to me the best solution is to use stencil shadows only where absolutely necessary and pre-calc for everything else, because rendering static scenery and objects with real-time shadows is just a waste of resources.


In some way I´ve to agree, but then again you´ve to keep in mind that it might look kinda stupid when you´ve realtime shadows in one area with, lets say only a few enemies for example, and then use precalculated ones in bigger areas http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
The big problem is that the realtime shadows can´t look as good as the precalculated ones while it also might look shity when a character causes 3 shadows from multiple lightsources in one area while he won´t do that 50 feet away!

[FireFly]

I think stencil shadows can look quite natural in small-scale indoor environments, especially if they're harshly lit. It's only when you start to deal with naturally lit outdoor environments that stencil shadows really become an eyesore.

What's interesting though is Doom 3 and Quake 4 don't use stencil shadows for everything. Projected shadows are used for some lights that leave a fine pattern of light and dark (because the light is blocked by say, a mesh).

As far as the soft shadows in FEAR go, they're not proper soft shadows, in that their softness doesn't vary depending on the distance from the lightsource; it's fixed. They're also not really soft shadows either because you can see the transition between each superimposed stencil shadow. I believe they just use the standard lightsource jitter technique here, but it doesn't look great because they can only take a limited number of samples.


SyntaxN said:
Yeah the actuall way to create "softshadows" is that they´re using multiple lightsources, but the UE3 really softs them through a heavy use of shaders...what makes them look really good.


Well UE3 uses shadow buffers instead of stencil shadows for the soft dynamic shadows, so there's a natural softness that varies depending on the distance from the lightsource. This is cleaned up using shaders that apply some pixel jitter.

[FireFly]

Edit: mispost

[Drazula]

Mountain Man said:
And I appreciate your opinion, but it's pretty well known that precalculated shadows currently look more natural with the obvious trade-off that they're static.


Only if you are taking screenshots. As soon as you add movement to the worlds, static shadowing sucks.


So you either get real-time shadows that largely look unnatural or static shadows that look natural, and personal opinion dictates which you prefer.


That is about as logical as saying that hardware and software rendering is personal preference. Precompiled lighting has been around since Doom. It is long overdue time to move on.


Of course, real-time radiosity is the holy grail, but we're several years away from anything like that.


http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif It is next id engine away.


Personally, I think UE 3 has the best solution at the moment, combining the two technologies and allowing the level desiger to decided which to use based on the needs of the level.


Halfway measures lead to half-ass results. Let's see when they run a game on it. Epic has been more notorious when it comes to shadowing than famous.

[Steve]

You two still going at it? http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/love.gif http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/love.gif

[Cerberus_e]

Mountain Man said:

Cerberus_e said:
I think that's the upside, and I prefer the way shadows are in FEAR and doom 3 over pre-rendered ones http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


And I appreciate your opinion, but it's pretty well known that precalculated shadows currently look more natural with the obvious trade-off that they're static. So you either get real-time shadows that largely look unnatural or static shadows that look natural, and personal opinion dictates which you prefer. Of course, real-time radiosity is the holy grail, but we're several years away from anything like that.



yes, but as soon as you turn on that piece of machinery that rotates blue plasma canisters then dynamic shadows are going to behave in a natural way, while prerendered static shadows will "largely behave unnatural" http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
I often find myself looking for a few minutes at the machinery in games with dynamic shadows... FEAR doesn't do that really, but it's cool in Doom 3 http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Little Conqueror]

Mountain Man said:
Seems to me the best solution is to use stencil shadows only where absolutely necessary and pre-calc for everything else, because rendering static scenery and objects with real-time shadows is just a waste of resources.



Real-time shadows have gotten to the point where even I can't complain about a performance hit. But I suppose a way we could optimize them is by pre-rendering them and then refreshing them whenever the level geometry or the lighting position changes.

I also feel that many games have really failed to realistically handle shadows from entities. If you look around the corner with a light source behind you, you and the wall should be casting the same shade of shadow. In current games, it's as if whenever there's entity shadows, they're like an extra transparent decal on top of existing shadows rather than actually blending in with them.

[FireFly]

http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif It is next id engine away.


It won't be true real-time radiosity. Otherwise Carmack wouldn't even need to use shadow buffers.

[Nessus]

For static shadows if I was a deveoper I would just render the scene with super high detailed shadows and then take a snapshot of the textures with the shadow on them and let that be my new texture.

[kylemf88]

The best is way to much to say. I think it's the best of the year though. But allot of people will agree that half-life is the best fps ever. I think half-life did allot of things that made our fps games what they are today. But this is on my top 5 or 10 atleast. Best of the year imo hands down. It pushed hl2 out of my favorite current fps slot though. But that's probably just because hl2 is getting old to me. But I think half-life is the game that got me into first person shooters. (Wasn't my first but I enjoyed it more than any other.)

[Damien_Azreal]

Best ever is simply a matter of opinion, everybody has a different "best ever!!". Mine is Blood, no offense but Half-Life's last levels (Xen) bored and irritated the hell out of me.

But FEAR is hands down FPS, if not game, of the year.

[kylemf88]

Damien_Azreal said:
Best ever is simply a matter of opinion, everybody has a different "best ever!!". Mine is Blood, no offense but Half-Life's last levels (Xen) bored and irritated the hell out of me.

But FEAR is hands down FPS, if not game, of the year.



I'll agree with that I hated xen also. But I still thing the rest of the game was awesome. I never played blood though. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif I heard it had some bad bugs though?

[Damien_Azreal]

I don't remember many bugs with Blood, but it can be patched.

Blood 2 was rushed out the door, and it was very buggy... it should be patche dbefore played.

[Orochi Avlis]

One thing I love doing in FEAR is throwing a grenade, switching on slow-mo then shooting at the grenade, which detonates it.

[ZuljinRaynor]

Damien_Azreal said:
Best ever is simply a matter of opinion, everybody has a different "best ever!!". Mine is Blood, no offense but Half-Life's last levels (Xen) bored and irritated the hell out of me.

But FEAR is hands down FPS, if not game, of the year. IMO


Fixed. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
REmember, I say CoD2 is, followed by Quake 4 I must say. Is there even in-game music in FEAR? The Quake 4 music pushed me on in the demo.

[ZuljinRaynor]

Orochi Avlis said:
One thing I love doing in FEAR is throwing a grenade, switching on slow-mo then shooting at the grenade, which detonates it.


OoOoO, must try this out. Reinstalling the FEAR demo fixed my problem of it hanging the computer when I ran it to restart to run it again. I need the game. The demo ending pisses me off. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif

[Damien_Azreal]

ZuljinRaynor said:

Damien_Azreal said:
Best ever is simply a matter of opinion, everybody has a different "best ever!!". Mine is Blood, no offense but Half-Life's last levels (Xen) bored and irritated the hell out of me.

But FEAR is hands down FPS, if not game, of the year. IMO


Fixed. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
REmember, I say CoD2 is, followed by Quake 4 I must say. Is there even in-game music in FEAR? The Quake 4 music pushed me on in the demo.



Yes there is music in FEAR... very creepy music, it really goes along with the atmosphere and tension in the game.

IMO http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[ZuljinRaynor]

I remember hearing something that was very low, I might have to fix up my settings but defaults always sound good, but not in FEAR, IMO. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[avatar_58]

I'm glad FEAR has music, but its a shame that these games only stick to ambient stuff...as opposed to the old build games and doom style.

[Orochi Avlis]

The devs at Monolith said that opening music was originally a placeholder, but they ended up keeping it because it worked really well.
Which I agree. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Drazula]

Damien_Azreal said:

ZuljinRaynor said:

Damien_Azreal said:
Best ever is simply a matter of opinion, everybody has a different "best ever!!". Mine is Blood, no offense but Half-Life's last levels (Xen) bored and irritated the hell out of me.

But FEAR is hands down FPS, if not game, of the year. IMO


Fixed. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
REmember, I say CoD2 is, followed by Quake 4 I must say. Is there even in-game music in FEAR? The Quake 4 music pushed me on in the demo.


Yes there is music in FEAR... very creepy music, it really goes along with the atmosphere and tension in the game.

IMO http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif


Totally agree... FEAR music was first rate!

[Mountain Man]

Little Conqueror said:
I also feel that many games have really failed to realistically handle shadows from entities. If you look around the corner with a light source behind you, you and the wall should be casting the same shade of shadow. In current games, it's as if whenever there's entity shadows, they're like an extra transparent decal on top of existing shadows rather than actually blending in with them.


To be fair, Doom 3 doesn't have this problem because every shadow is rendered in real-time, which is a definite benefit of this technique. The downside, as has been mentioned, is that shadows absorb 100% of the light leading to the unnatural darkness that many gamers complain about.

At the moment, there's really no best technique until real-time radiosity becomes a reality, and that won't happen for a few years at the earliest.

[Soothsayer]

Is Fear simply the best FPS ever?

Or is Half Life simply the best FPS ever?

What is the sound of one hand clapping?

If a tree falls when nobody is around, does it make a sound?

How many roads must a man walk down, before you can call him a man?

When is DNF coming out?

*Insert another rhetorical question here...get the drift?*

[Vivi]

[Jerry Seinfeld] Whhhhaat is the deal with 2 percent milk?!? [/Seinfeld]

[FireFly]

To be fair, Doom 3 doesn't have this problem because every shadow is rendered in real-time, which is a definite benefit of this technique. The downside, as has been mentioned, is that shadows absorb 100% of the light leading to the unnatural darkness that many gamers complain about.



Actually, they don't. The lightness of the shadows is modulated according to the contribution of other light sources in the scene.

For example, in these shots you can see both light and dark shadows:

http://img.gamespot.com/gamespot/images/2003/e3/0512/pc_doom305120900_screen003.jpg
http://img.gamespot.com/gamespot/images/2004/reviews/469881_20040804_screen013.jpg

[Mountain Man]

What I meant is that shadowed areas don't give or receive any reflected light. In real-life, shining a light onto one side of a cube in a darkened room will still provide minimal illumination on the non-lighted side (depending on room size and the reflectiveness of the walls, of course). In the Doom 3 engine and other engines that use similiar techniques, such as Jupiter, shining a single light onto one side of a cube will illuminate only the areas the light actually touches while casting everything else into impenetrable shadow.

[Drazula]

The downside, as has been mentioned, is that shadows absorb 100% of the light ...



Drivel. They don't absorb 100% of the light. You are referring to the very unique situation of one light source. Such situations are created by level designers, purposely to set the mood.

I don't see anything wrong with the shadows FireFly posted. And they look even better in action. With precompiled lighting, the ONLY time they look good are in screenshots. Since I don't play screenshots, I much prefer modern tech to 1998 tech.


leading to the unnatural darkness that many gamers complain about.


I am away a few weeks and you start throwing ad populum fallacies all over the place!? What's up with that?

Define many... is that you and your fantasy land?! I've heard much more people complain about the terrible shadowing in games with precompiled lighting than the dynamic lighting in games like Doom 3 or FEAR.

Full scene dynamic lighting has been in video hardware since the release of the Geforce 3. It is shameful that game engines still resort to archaic precompiled methods.

[Jokke_r]

There is no gain to use dynamic stencil shadows in a static enviroment. Doing that just makes it look like Perfect Dark for the N64, which had precompiled shadows which were the visual equivalent of stencil shadows, man that looked awfull.

In a static enviroment the best looking result is gained by proper precompiled lighting untill the day when radiosity can be done in realtime. The only games i think stencil shadows have worked well in are riddick and doom3. Neither of those games look "real" though, the art direction is clearly going for something else than photorealism in those games. I agree that stencil shadows are still the best choise today with dynamic enviroments and character shadows.

Projected character shadows ( well the ones i've encountered ) don't act realistically. Max Payne 2 comes to mind. Sure it looks OK, but it seems that the shadow can only cover a fixed area, and not for instance shadow an entire area if the player would stand directly infront of the lightsource.

But sharp shadows don't work in the otherwise realistic enviroments like in FEAR IMO. Since the enviroment is static for the most part i don't think there's a significant gain by using stencil shadows and that the game would have looked overall somewhat more realistic and better if they would use proper lightmaps instead.

But this is a useless argument, people have their own opinions and tastes. One is not wrong if they prefer the look of "older" tech, it's all about personal preferences.

http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Cerberus_e]

Jokke_r said:
But sharp shadows don't work in the otherwise realistic enviroments like in FEAR IMO. Since the enviroment is static for the most part i don't think there's a significant gain by using stencil shadows and that the game would have looked overall somewhat more realistic and better if they would use proper lightmaps instead.



I only played the demo and the first 2 levels of the full game, but I've played enough that the realistic behaving dynamic shadows add a lot to the immersiveness.
It always frightens me when all of a sudden a big shadow pops up because I walk past a lightsource http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
and those lamps moving on the ceiling are cool too, an effect impossible if it were prerendered (because you can shoot those hanging lights in all directions)

[Dogy]

Not a chance against this guy:

http://img.gamespot.com/gamespot/images/screenshots/gs/rpg/deusex/deusex_boxshot.jpg

[avatar_58]

Dogy said:
Not a chance against this guy:

http://img.gamespot.com/gamespot/images/screenshots/gs/rpg/deusex/deusex_boxshot.jpg



I'd like to argue with you, but believe it or not I have yet to play Deus Ex. Although, its not a pure FPS is it?

[SyntaxN]

Dogy said:
Not a chance against this guy:

http://img.gamespot.com/gamespot/images/screenshots/gs/rpg/deusex/deusex_boxshot.jpg


You got it http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Denz]

avatar_58 said:

Although, its not a pure FPS is it?




He does.

[Mountain Man]

Jokke_r said:
But this is a useless argument, people have their own opinions and tastes. One is not wrong if they prefer the look of "older" tech, it's all about personal preferences.


Which is exactly what I said, but it seems some people think having a certain preference is "wrong".

[Drazula]

Jokke_r said:
There is no gain to use dynamic stencil shadows in a static enviroment.


A statically lit environment only exists as an engine limitation. A soon as you add fire, flashlight, lightswitches or even time, the entire scene becomes dynamic.


Mountain Man said:
Which is exactly what I said, but it seems some people think having a certain preference is "wrong".


I wouldn't say "wrong". I would describe someone that prefers precompiled lighting over dynamic lighting the same way I would describe someone who likes a McDonald's hamburger over filet mignon: <table><tr><th><font size="-1">Spoiler below:</font></th></tr><tr><td class="spoiler">nitwit!</td></tr></table>

[FireFly]

Drazula said:
A statically lit environment only exists as an engine limitation. A soon as you add fire, flashlight, lightswitches or even time, the entire scene becomes dynamic.


That doesn't change the fact that current games (yes, even Doom 3) are statically lit for the most part. Oh, and for first person lights, stencil shadows look pretty bad, which is why the flashlight in Doom 3 doesn't cast shadows.

So why not precompute some of the static shadows in these environments?

[SyntaxN]

FireFly said:

Drazula said:
A statically lit environment only exists as an engine limitation. A soon as you add fire, flashlight, lightswitches or even time, the entire scene becomes dynamic.


That doesn't change the fact that current games (yes, even Doom 3) are statically lit for the most part. Oh, and for first person lights, stencil shadows look pretty bad, which is why the flashlight in Doom 3 doesn't cast shadows.



Actually the flashlight in DOOM³ casts shadows...at least on ultra http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
But yeah they *often* look wrong, but sometimes the effect is cool http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[FireFly]

Actually now you mention it I do remember it casting shadows but in a very limited way (when compared with the flashlight in Riddick, for example).

[Damien_Azreal]

Yeah, Riddick is another game that using shadows in the same way as Doom 3 and FEAR. And that game looks badass... I'm currently replaying it now.

But yes, Riddick's flashlight does cast shadows very well. Doom 3's does as well, but on certain objects it does look a little odd. For the most part it looks natural.

Quake 4's flashlight on the other hand does not. Your team mates flashlights do, but yours does not. That's pretty damn wierd.

[avatar_58]

How the hell was Doom 3 and its engine mentioned in a thread about the best FPS ever? Please people....do us a favour and shut up and stay on topic.

[Wild Falkon]

I feel that F.E.A.R. was an exceptional game, but it's certainly not the best FPS ever, and I don't see it being my game of the year, either.

It was great, but it could have been a bit more.

[Damien_Azreal]

avatar_58 said:
How the hell was Doom 3 and its engine mentioned in a thread about the best FPS ever? Please people....do us a favour and shut up and stay on topic.



That was hurtful... http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif I agree, back to FEAR!!!

[Gryph]

Now that Riddick has been mentioned, has anyone tried out the Shader Model 2.0++ mode with the soft shadows? Those soft shadows actually look good.

[Mountain Man]

avatar_58 said:
How the hell was Doom 3 and its engine mentioned in a thread about the best FPS ever?


It was brought up merely as point of comparison in the way FEAR renders shadows.


Please people....do us a favour and shut up and stay on topic.


No need for that attitude. The discussion has been very civil.

[avatar_58]

I'm sorry people....excuse me. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/redface.gif I don't wake up as early as I did today normally....and I hadn't had a coffee or some such caffeine drink http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Go back to argueing your petty, err, civil debate http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif I'll just lie here on the ground...

[Travis]

Orochi Avlis said:
The devs at Monolith said that opening music was originally a placeholder, but they ended up keeping it because it worked really well.
Which I agree. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif



Yes, and I'm happy they switched the music around and made the music at the end stay at the end, because it really suits the end.

[dark_angel]

Gryph said:
Now that Riddick has been mentioned, has anyone tried out the Shader Model 2.0++ mode with the soft shadows? Those soft shadows actually look good.



Yeah look quite good and way better than F.E.A.R., but you need at least a Geforce 6800 GT or any other ATI equivalent card to play it smoothly with this feature enabled.

[Jokke_r]

Drazula said:
A statically lit environment only exists as an engine limitation. A soon as you add fire, flashlight, lightswitches or even time, the entire scene becomes dynamic.




I'll Take the game Alan Wake as comparison now, i know the game isn't released and maybe not even close to completion.
It's true that thingsl like dynamic lightsources like fire or flashlights don't act realistically with precomputed lighting. One can though "fake" it properly to some extent.

Lightswitches and time doesn't need dynamic stencil shadows in order to work, lightswitches have been done with precomputed lighting since half-life 1. I played Deus Ex previously today and eventhough the lightmaps it uses are horribly lowres and only 8bit i believe, they still manage to do this properly.

Now you mention time, the game Alan Wake has a completely dynamic gameworld, time flows, there's weather and things like that, and on top of all it looks awesome. The shadows move realistically as the time moves, you might think they're fully dynamic (well to some extent) but they also usel lightmaps for these moving shadows, pre-rendered multiple times over the duration of time in the gameworld, these are then played sort of like a video of lightmaps.

This info might not be 100% accurate, but i remember reading this.

But F.E.A.R. doesn't have time, moving objects are scarce, i can't remember lightswitches but i'm sure there were some. The enviroment is pretty static (objects that actually move). and those lights that move when you shoot them can be done with hybrids of precomputed and dynamic lighting.

[Balgias]

Dogy said:
Not a chance against this guy:

http://img.gamespot.com/gamespot/images/screenshots/gs/rpg/deusex/deusex_boxshot.jpg



omg, CHEATER ! http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tinyted.gif

Jc denton should never be put up against another fps star...he's just too powerfull http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dopefish.gif

[Orochi Avlis]

Has anybody noticed that one of the guys that we hear on the com-link talking to our team leader goes by the name of A. Shephard?

And has anybody else seen in the warehouse levels at the beginning there are signs with "H.A.R.M." on them?

[Cerberus_e]

I still don't know what HARM stands for, after finishing all three games set in the no one lives forever franchise http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif maybe I missed it?

[Damien_Azreal]

Cerberus_e said:
I still don't know what HARM stands for, after finishing all three games set in the no one lives forever franchise http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif maybe I missed it?



They've never said what H.A.R.M. stands for. It's one of the little secrets in the NOLF universe.

[GoodAndyBadPizza]

This is old thread alright. I just played fear, all 3 for 1st time. I was just going to add some remarks, some spoilers (although don't know how to insert spoilers so beware) ... just in case others yet to play might want:

The 1st 'Fear' could be skipped, is fun but a bit monotonous. I'll have to say the story is very weak, not really very good at all, so just play.

To catch the very last level of Fear would be good ... then go right to sequel 'Extraction Point." They must've reacted to feedback as is ALOT better, better enemy scenarious, etc. & not quite so long drawn monotony of just mostly regular enemy guys one after the other.

Then 3rd on "Perseus Project", just finished it is really fun & better too. So could just play those last to if want the most fun out of the series so far.
_________________
1. A spoiler note: on the 'labyrinth' looking guy-goul in the floor apirating dark spots, easiest is just hit jump & R. mouse for the KICK. If do it from start you 'kill' it w/out any harm & no loss of ammo.

2. I hoard ammo, maxing a gun out then getting others less full...can take alot with until a level ends then lose all except what have in inventory.

Really don't need to do that, but can. The scoped guns are best. But at end level of Perseus is a hoot to have all the firepwr. I took gattlin gun w/800-900 ammo, it's max whatever it is. A grenade launcher w/50 + loaded.
The cannon gun w/50 plus loaded in it. Had the Laser gun, lol.

Is good to make a save at beginning so can replay those type levels w/different weapons & tactics just for fun.

But doors, gates, etc. close permanently in alot of places: so don't over save an area on in a level until you're sure it's not one of those. At last level of Perseus there's 2 doors that do this: one is the entrance to the final fight w/the 'Pink-eyed guy, hardest one in the game. And then on to the last final fight level part B: when go to last stand just inside the iron game near the gunfight area...as soon as engage it will perm. shut. I had to reload earlier cuz left all those weapons on back a little further & didn't realize this gate was locked after started fighting.

Also on in levels when think may be near it's end quick save before jumping down anything, tunnels, shafts, etc. cuz might be level change. I'd usually save alot of best weapons & 1st use the others, or a less loaded good gun would use & another fully maxed out one would keep separate until either use or so could take w/to next level. Check places out before & w/a save can redo if such a spot.

At places where know can't retrack to, I'd throw all weapons over & then jump so would have all wanted to continue on further in the level.
__________________
Is better to just use any grenade-stuff then are more & if try & save mostly there's no real need to, so use them. There's not enough real bad enemies to use these except maybe in Perseus: 1st would be the scairest thing in the game when you're cornered seeminly by the hugest robo-mech you've ever seen right in your face. Secret there...SPOILER is to use slow-mo & just run passed the beast into the door way behind it & hookem into all the next rooms until you get to the rocket launchers, 2 in one rm, & 1 in another.

Also hit a save when there & run w/out guns so go fastest. Then trick is really easiest to just go in adjoining room from the 2 rocket lauchers & just circle the room lab island cabinet w/the beast doing the same thing, keeping it between him & you & using slow mo & blasting it until kill. Really IF have any land mines would be great IF you can prep before this starts & drop those as run away from him at the beginning.

In Perseus at final showdown w/pinkeye guy: biggest trick, easiest is in room before cross line where it all starts, go place 3 turrets up: one on 3 different walls & up high. From entrance straight ahead there's a good standoff spot for you in the 2 cubes w/a space for you between them. Is one of the best covers. Put a turret on far wall to your left way up high, then one to your right as high as can, then other one can throw in mid floor or up over you on the rack. Then I shoot w/scope his henchmen but also him if is available & was. The turrets really distract him. If do it after is only him & you though he'll kill them too quick.

I tried 1st w/the cannon gun, same as he's got & was hell, but finally did it after many deaths. 2nd try was w/my grenade launcher after had killed henchmen w/scope & slo mo, etc. Then I ran down stairs to earlier intrance & here he seems to not come & get you. Then can go up stairs just below eye, squat, & pop up if want till know where he is. I had 50+ grenades though & I just started popping them all over the place & from where he was to where he'd probably go & he would then try get as far away as could & up in higher racks but to no avail. It was a snap. It hurts hims so back than after didn't take much to finish him.

Also the gattlin gun works good. Did that a 3rd try & w/those turrets fashioned as I said it was quick work. That was the only time I tried the turrets that way. 1st time I tried them only after was just him & me & from my cat's nest spot & he'd kill them quick.
____________________

Oh, I played Perseus on 'Extreme Difficulty' cuz the earlier's were a bit too easy, except in places. It still ain't no tough deal since have slo-mo & the greatest gift God ever game the gamer & best weapon in the game: the quick save & reload, lol.
_____________________
Would be fun using slomo & kick as much as can for a new way to play.
_______________
If I play any of these, the last 2 again I'm going to run & gun it this time. Really don't need to worry about ammo, get it & use it & blow & go. I think I'd like to try it that way. Should be alot quicker, hehe. Those special levels you might want to save & do them alot of different ways.

Ext.Pt. really is just the gattlingun guys, aside from those other armored lilly pad shoulder guys, then there's a few bots. At train station are 2 bots, so easy. Alot of places if remember your entrance spot & if not closed permanently can usually use those areas as safe houses, spots, also can use a door w/the glass busted out as a protector & duck & shoot & slow mo to easy victories.

Multiple guys: slow mo, plug one then the other(s) throwing each off stunning them & cycle thru them so kill before any really get their bearings fully back. Also the badder guys usually will come from both sides, if one on right another will come from left, or from behind.
________________
Those red glow-eye invisible creatures aren't because of their eyes. Can just blast them in slo mo whenever see their eyes. Can do that in final perseus level even before ever get to them, lol.

Also the horny headed fast 'ninja' guys just start at the ready key for slo mo & as soon as see hit it & blast them.

Grenade launcher useless against the fast ones unless alot ammo & blast all over the place.

Laser's not too good except on gattling gun guy, or others w/heavy armor.

The Particle beam weapon is very good except not alot of ammo.

The Penetrator gun is good against armor too.
________________________
Got the last 3 Bonus Levels to play yet from Perseus, so fixing to do that.

The last 2 Fear's are pretty good. E.T. was from the start, Perseus started slow but got on w/the best stuff down the road a little ways.

The story is senseless, weak, & like an empty bag of ghost poo but it's still alot of fun. Fetter at least talks cool. The gir's fun to watch her do her thing. But the story doesn't seem like really has one. I'll still have to really stop & think to see really if there's any story at all. Basically you're trying to twart an anomalous bad thing. Nothing really clear, but a place for music & weird happenings just for gaming. When you go in w/guns ablazing you don't have much sense. It's a FPS. That's right. Mr. Fettel where are you? Fettle's in the kettle, w/his ma.

That's right.
;)

[The Baskinator]

Well... alright then.

[Travis]

i could totally understand that post.

also, best FPS ever would be a little bit of hyperbole.

[Hellbound]

For me - Blood1

[Kien]

It doesn't have proper gibs, really dissapointing and makes explosive weapons little purpose. The plasma beam scorch was a great thing though.

The levels are very boring. I feels like never ending office places and warehouses.

Even though there was a good amount, the weapons felt few somehow.

The <10 health (or whatever) => regen stinks too much Halo. Sorry.

That's among the thing that bothers me most in the game.


I liked the laser and lightning rifles in the expansions! :D The rocket gun was pretty and the auto cannon was nice. Spike rifle with nailing was good too. :)



For me - Blood1
I want remake of it. :(

[FrozeN91]

The 1st 'Fear' could be skipped ... then go right to sequel 'Extraction Point. Then 3rd on "Perseus Project", just finished it is really fun & better too. So could just play those last to if want the most fun out of the series so far.No. :censored:

[prophecy holder]

DOOM is considered one of the greatest games of all time, along with FFVll, Super mario brothers 3 and a few others.

Fear was pretty good, but got very boring sometimes.

[Danule]

half life 2, with f.e.a.r as a close second.

[Kien]

The 1st 'Fear' could be skipped ... then go right to sequel 'Extraction Point. Then 3rd on "Perseus Project", just finished it is really fun & better too. So could just play those last to if want the most fun out of the series so far.

I heard most people hated the FEAR xps.

[Damien_Azreal]

The 1st 'Fear' could be skipped, is fun but a bit monotonous. I'll have to say the story is very weak, not really very good at all, so just play.

... then go right to sequel 'Extraction Point..... Then 3rd on "Perseus Project", just finished it is really fun & better too.

No. :censored:

I agree with Frozen here. The original F.E.A.R. by Monolith themselves is the best out there.

And Extraction Point and Perseus Mandate, they are NOT sequels. They are add-ons. Expansions. And by comparison... they suck. A lot. Extraction Point is okay, but lacks the creepiness of the original.

Perseus is just a pile, I can't find anything nice to say about it. And the two expansions were not made by Monolith, they were developed by TimeGate Studios and published by VUG without any influence from Lith (besides some help with the engine).

The two add-ons are also non-cannon. They will not be taken into account for the story of F.E.A.R. 2: Project Origin. Monolith was very letdown by the quality of the add-ons, and the direction they took... both in story and in "scares". FEAR 2 will continue from the end of the original game, basically as if the two add-ons never happened (I can live with that).

And yes, we are all entitled to our opinions... and it's great you posted yours with such detail and enthusiasm... but I personally, completely disagree.

[LadiesAndGentlemen]

The first level of Crysis was better than any other game cited in this thread.

[Wamplet]

Never played it, so no. :o

[Damien_Azreal]

The first level of Crysis was better than any other game cited in this thread.

To bad the game fell apart after that level. ;)

And while that level was good... it wasn't that good.

[Delicieuxz]

The levels Fort and Pier from Far Cry were both better than Crysis as a whole, methinks :dopefish:

[Marty]

IMO, no

[LadiesAndGentlemen]

To bad the game fell apart after that level. ;)

And while that level was good... it wasn't that good.

Do you remember how you felt the first time you played that level? The game starts, you get a glimpse of the potential of the game engine at night in the sky. You wake up and see those unbelievable character models, then they talk for a while, just so you can fully enjoy the work that has been put into that scene, the shading, the lighting. Then you jump from the plane, you get the ambient sound of the wind that feels so intense. After that you get hit by something, your character calls for help and his voice actually feels like it's you speaking. Then you fall into the water and see static, bubbles, fish, you swim up and you see the water running down your helmet and after that you're introduced to the functions of the nanosuit in a small, isolated beautiful lonely dark environment. You try it, you feel like a 10 year old kid at Christmas. You walk for a while and after about 10 minutes you get to this INCREDIBLE scene where you see the sun rising over the island and then you do whatever you want for the following two hours.

Honestly, those were some of the strongest emotions I've felt in my life. No game even comes close. No gimmicks, no filler, no lame pop culture references. Everything just felt so beautiful and intense and perfect. Not to mention how fun it was. Every time I turned my head I wanted to take a screenshot and put it on my desktop.

[Damien_Azreal]

I didn't feel like that when I played Crysis.

Yes the visuals are amazing, the character models are extremely impressive.... but the gameplay itself... average. Level design... not sandbox, not free-form... it's actually linear level progression hidden in multiple paths.

Crysis is an average game. Take away the visuals... and it's far less than that. Your whole post simply gushes over the graphics, how great they are.
No mention of the average gameplay, bland/dull characters and flat story. Not to mention the absolutely horrible second half that falls flat on it's face.

This is all IMO but honestly, the game goes to shit once the aliens show up. With an NPC escort mission, a forced vehicle mission and the biggest letdown of a boss fight I've played in a long time. I found Doom 3's final boss more fun than that.

[Steve]

.

This is all IMO but honestly, the game goes to shit once the aliens show up. .

I quit as soon as I get there then start again. :o

[Nessus]

FEAR was a great game, the combat was really satisfying but greatest game ever? To me it was too repetitive. The same enemies over and over for the entire game with very little variation. Too little variation in the environment too.

[GoodAndyBadPizza]

Since it's on best fps, 'Redneck Rampage' was pretty good. I don't think any's really any better. All of it was wonderfully fun & they covered a whole spectrum of scenarios, environments & enemies including the titty shooters & on to the flying saucer, hehee.

I still think Deus Ex is the most satisfyingly best & interesting. System Shock 2 as well. So long since played it, but it's there too.

Blood was good w/all it's cool enemies. Didn't like the music though.

[LadiesAndGentlemen]

I didn't feel like that when I played Crysis.

Yes the visuals are amazing, the character models are extremely impressive.... but the gameplay itself... average. Level design... not sandbox, not free-form... it's actually linear level progression hidden in multiple paths.

Crysis is an average game. Take away the visuals... and it's far less than that. Your whole post simply gushes over the graphics, how great they are.
No mention of the average gameplay, bland/dull characters and flat story. Not to mention the absolutely horrible second half that falls flat on it's face.

This is all IMO but honestly, the game goes to shit once the aliens show up. With an NPC escort mission, a forced vehicle mission and the biggest letdown of a boss fight I've played in a long time. I found Doom 3's final boss more fun than that.


I really don't understand how anyone can dislike Crysis that much. I think you must have some personal irrelevant reasons to do so. I mean, to say that it's far less than average... just wow...

[peoplessi]

Actually, I feel exactly the same on Crysis that Damien_Azreal does. Then again I'm not that big fan of F.E.A.R either, just playing it through for the first time so time has gotten to it a bit.

[Damien_Azreal]

I really don't understand how anyone can dislike Crysis that much. I think you must have some personal irrelevant reasons to do so. I mean, to say that it's far less than average... just wow...

I didn't say it's less than average... I said it was average from a gameplay view. I don't hate the game, I just don't think it's that great... good at times, horrible at others. :) I said if you remove the graphics it's less than average.

People are allowed their own views and opinions. ;)

And as peoplessi showed, other people dislike the game much more than I.


FEAR on the other hand I absolutely loved. But, I'm a little bit of a Monolith fan. ;) But for me, FEAR was an awesome experience. True the lack of enemy and level variety did were a little thin, but the great combat, chilling atmosphere and extremely cinematic presentation made it amazing.

[Steve]

I really don't understand how anyone can dislike Crysis that much. I think you must have some personal irrelevant reasons to do so. I mean, to say that it's far less than average... just wow...

I feel the same. It's an average game at best. But remember, this is IMO, of course. :p

[Bit-Cloud]

I think the UT Series is the best FPS out there closly followed by bioshock

----------------
Now playing on iTunes: Iron Maiden - The Wicker Man (http://www.foxytunes.com/artist/iron+maiden/track/the+wicker+man)
via FoxyTunes (http://www.foxytunes.com/signatunes/)

[Travis]

i think FEAR was my favourite game of 2005, but apart from that i'm not sure. i didn't get bored of it at all, and i usually tire of similar levels easily.
the atmosphere and combat was enough to hold it together, and i actually like the office levels a lot. the warehousey ones, not so much.

[slapnutz]

My opinion of FEAR...

1) Repetitive design (enemies/levels)
2) Great (not STALKER level great) atmosphere
3) Nice initial "scare moments" which got less scary as the game went on (apart from the last scene in the chopper)
4) Great shooting/combat mechanics, probably my favourite in an FPS so far.
5) Sound design... same as above.

[Sang]

FEAR was a great game, the combat was really satisfying but greatest game ever? To me it was too repetitive. The same enemies over and over for the entire game with very little variation. Too little variation in the environment too.

I agree.

[hiob]

Perseus Mandate had it's moments, but the first few levels are very amateurish. It gets a lot better later on, in fact one of my favorite levels of the whole FEAR universe is in Perseus Mandate. (Yes I did just say that. :p)

What really made the addon fall into 'awful' territory were the horrible new weapon-models and the amazingly dumb story paired with the bad voice-actors of the villains. I wouldn't recommend the game to even the most hardcore fan, as it feels more like a mod than a professional game, but still I enjoyed it.

As for best FPS ever, I would say "Call of Cthulhu". Despite it being 'unfinished' in some areas, it still managed to be the most intense gaming experience I ever had. I would gladly sacrifice DNF and Rune 2, if I just could get another Call of Cthulhu game.

[Kien]

the horrible new weapon-models
The tesla gun and laser rifle was nice. :p


4) Great shooting/combat mechanics, probably my favourite in an FPS so far.

How can a shooter that almost lacks gibs be great? It's horrible to have explosive weapons yet they don't blast bodies to pieces. Blasting things with explosive weapons is among the most satisfying of all as long as it's not too easy to happen (like from shotguns).

[Damien_Azreal]

Considering most FPS for the past eight or so years have had NO gibs at all, FEAR's cloud of blood and meat chunks was very welcome.

[Kien]

Yes and that's just God damn awful, what the hell is in the mind of developers these days? Seems like only the Ninja Gaiden games has proper (actually over the top) gore. I'm curious about FEAR 2. That's 1 of my most curious things about the game actually. And, thank God for Painkiller. I wanted to spit on Half-Life 2 when my handgrenade didn't blow the zombie corpse.

[Damien_Azreal]

Than this should make you happy...

FEAR 2 Gore Blog (http://www.projectorigincommunity.com/node/335)

Head shots alone have ten individual pieces. :) Lith have said they didn't like the cloud of blood thing that much either... but at the time didn't have the means to make a better gib effect.
But in FEAR 2 they are really going all out to make sure all aspects of the game, specially the gore, are cranked full on to match the games over the top combat. :D

No word yet if the shotgun will still be able to vaporize an enemy like it could in FEAR. :p And in the first game that was a glitch/mistake. But, they decided it looked cool and left it in.
A matter of a shotgun blast having the same damage as say a grenade or rocket blast, so the game would recognize that damage and deal out a full-body gib for the shotty.

[Stevey Boy]

For some reason I hate this game, just cant get into it at all:(

[slapnutz]

How can a shooter that almost lacks gibs be great? It's horrible to have explosive weapons yet they don't blast bodies to pieces. Blasting things with explosive weapons is among the most satisfying of all as long as it's not too easy to happen (like from shotguns).

By mechanics I meant purely as the techincal design used to attack an enemy until he is dead. What happens after his death wasnt part of what I'm talking about.

Its moreso about, weapon feedback, hit detection... that type of stuff. Its how well the game allowed you to be able to shoot and accurately hit enemies.

[boglito]

FEAR has its flaws, but the combat in fear is indeed the best ever and has yet to be topped. I can almost not believe that FEAR2 is just around the corner.

[Ramen4ever]

Perfect Dark for N64. Period.
Lots of weapons, stages, decent AI, good scenarios. Everything in that game was well rounded.

[TBZ]

Perfect Dark? Screw that game, Golden Eye is way better, PD is so boring! :(

:p

[Damien_Azreal]

While PD is far from boring, GoldenEye is the better game. ;)

[Telee]

IMO:
Goldeneye SP > Perfect Dark SP
Goldeneye MP < Perfect Dark MP

[razgriz]

F.E.A.R. is definitely a AAA FPS and hopefully, F.E.A.R. 2 will deliver.

[big fat lazy]

I didn't even think Fear was the best fps of 2005.

[Berntsen]

FEAR is a really good FPS, it has some of the most satisfying gunplay in any game I've ever played, cool weapons, and I really like the slow-mo effects. I find it really easy to just jump into it and have a great time.

I feel it's not the best FPS ever, though, because both the combat and especially the level design gets sorta repetitive. The scares didn't really work either (for me, at least) and felt really "forced". The story wasn't very rememorable.

Still, I'd rate it over for example Half-Life 2, if only because it was a lot more fun, which to me is the most important aspect of a game.

[Klaus Kinski]

As for best FPS ever, I would say "Call of Cthulhu". Despite it being 'unfinished' in some areas, it still managed to be the most intense gaming experience I ever had. I would gladly sacrifice DNF and Rune 2, if I just could get another Call of Cthulhu game.

I'm sorry but I have tro disagree very strongly. The design of that game is just too inconsequent and neglecting to be considered good. While the art department did a great job (given you don't mind a very Quakish color palette), the rest isn't that great at all. The level design is totally linear, especially where it shouldn't and don't need to be. In some critical areas it relies completely on trial and error gameplay. A great example of it is the hotel escape, which is very tense but doesn't allow any mistakes or deviations from the developer's plan how it should go at all. It's like playing a scripted sequence, get it right or "game over". If you don't follow exactly certain pre-planned steps, you will die, you have zero chance. Since I'm not a mind reader, I had to restart a bit too often from the last savepoint (yes, there isn't a proper saving system as well).
Another incredibly annoying thing is that while the game is ridiculously pseudo-realistic (the health system is a hoot, especially when walking on two broken legs) with ironsight aiming and everything, it doesn't have the most logical feature you'd expect in such a game. Running. Thats right, you can either sneak or walk but you can't run. The walking speeds are slow and slower. This is a very stupid design decision in a game where monster that are so horrible to look at that you go insane chase you.
It could have been a great game but it is simply too flawed to be considered very good.

And FEAR? Great game, awesome game. But not the greatest FPS ever. Not in my opinion at least. I think Monolith did a better job with NOLF. My pick for best FPS so far would be CoD. However, I wouldn't include Thief 2 on that list at all since I consider this not strictly a FPS (same goes for Deus Ex) and I prefer that over CoD.

[Nihilanth]

F.E.A.R. had intense and satisfying fights, some nice creepy bits, and overally solid gameplay. But it was boring at some parts and extremely repetetive all around. To me it's a good game. Above average but far away from great.

[Babe]

Best IMHO is Painkiller :love:. Pure FPS fun.
Then Quake III Arena.
Then FarCry.
FEAR is somewhere at 4/5 ish along with Clive Barker's Undying, RTCW and HL2.

[Kien]

I think NOLF is more fun that FEAR. :)

[Ramen4ever]

Perfect Dark? Screw that game, Golden Eye is way better, PD is so boring! :(

:p

Golden eye was good but PD had far better mp. WAY more weapons, it actually had ai bots to kill. Cooler guns. more levels. The only part about Goldeneye that was better than PD was the story.

Still. Judging from statistics. Isn't CS the best FPS of all time? :o

[avatar_58]

I'm still trying to figure out why folks are digging up a 4 year old thread....

[Ramen4ever]

I'm still trying to figure out why folks are digging up a 4 year old thread....

We like to play with dead things.:censored:

[peoplessi]

I'm still trying to figure out why folks are digging up a 4 year old thread....

I think in this case it's bit fun, to see it as a retrospective. Games get too much praise straight after, but as time passes it's more easy to evaluate the game. Or that's how I feel.

[Sang]

I'm still trying to figure out why folks are digging up a 4 year old thread....

Yeah they bring up a thread about FEAR and then start talking about GoldenEye I mean wtf ;)

[Steve]

I'm still trying to figure out why folks are digging up a 4 year old thread....

I'm still trying to figure out why a guy is opposed about people digging up an old thread, yet only to reply in that very thread hence keeping that old dug up thread even more alive. I mean... WTF?! :eek: ;)

[JobivanHiob]

Fear will be topped by Fear 2 and after that by DNF. You see it coming ;)

[Ramen4ever]

I'm still trying to figure out why a guy is opposed about people digging up an old thread, yet only to reply in that very thread hence keeping that old dug up thread even more alive. I mean... WTF?! :eek: ;)

OMG, That man is naked! :o



Also this thread isn't really even about Fear but the fact that it is not the best FPS ever. Providing examples of better games is an acceptable part of the thread.:) I think..

[Delicieuxz]

As for best FPS ever, I would say "Call of Cthulhu". Despite it being 'unfinished' in some areas, it still managed to be the most intense gaming experience I ever had. I would gladly sacrifice DNF and Rune 2, if I just could get another Call of Cthulhu game.

CoC crashes at the beginning when entering the cellar of the house on both my XP and Vista drives. Sucks, haven't played it before.

[themaniacboy]

Doom 3 was kind of dissapointing, i played the final version of doom 3 and it was nothing compared to the alpha, they screwed it up
fear was awesome, but it was lacking something
i'm not sure about Far Cry, it was one of the shooters i've ever played
Duke Nukem is simply awesome, you can't explain it because you need to play it for yourself
none of these shooters were perfect, but will there be a perfect shooter ?

[Kien]

What makes DukkiNukk good is the games around it's time.

My brother's comment on FEAR:
"does nothing that other games has not done better"

[GoodAndyBadPizza]

Now I say aside from Deus Ex specialdom & SS2 & such STALKER is by far the best! The environ, beauty of realism, really good A.I., & plenty of variety, complexity & story. So many areas covered, characters...is awesome.

[TerminX]

Your brother's an idiot. FEAR did slow motion better, FEAR did gunfights better, FEAR did full body awareness better, et cetera.

[Destructor]

Half-Life is my favourite first person shooter. FEAR was pretty good, but a little slow though.

[peoplessi]

Half-Life is my favourite first person shooter. FEAR was pretty good, but a little slow though.

Why Half-Life? Half-Life 2 perfected the game in so many ways, since I personally felt Half-Life wasn't too special, even when it came out. Somehow the more tongue in cheek feel of SiN captured me better.

[Berntsen]

Why Half-Life?

I personally felt Half-Life wasn't too special.

There you go. Opinions.

[ZuljinRaynor]

Why Half-Life? Half-Life 2 perfected the game in so many ways, since I personally felt Half-Life wasn't too special, even when it came out. Somehow the more tongue in cheek feel of SiN captured me better.

Other way around for me. Half-Life 2 is just as decent but it's polish makes up for the just decent package. :p Half-Life one is the same thing just in a different locale. I'll take OpFor over them both any day though. :p

Golden eye was good but PD had far better mp. WAY more weapons, it actually had ai bots to kill. Cooler guns. more levels. The only part about Goldeneye that was better than PD was the story.

Still. Judging from statistics. Isn't CS the best FPS of all time? :o

Bah, both PD and Goldeneye suck. :p

[peoplessi]

There you go. Opinions.

It doesn't mean you couldn't base them on something, or explain them.

[Steve]

We need posting guide lines when near peoplessi! Do not annoy the peoplessi. Do not approach the peoplessi. If you do encounter the peoplessi DO explain everything to the peoplessi. Because your favorite game must be explained in full depth! Very serious ;)


My fav FPS is Duke Nukem 3D. Why? Because it's cool! :p :eek: :D
:D

[Travis]

do not approach the paparazzi? oh, i was confused for a little bit there.
i saw a mention of sin, that game was really great. i'm disappointed ritual have become part of a casual games company and probably won't make a follow up to sin: emergence. :(

[Water12356]

FEAR is a really good game, but not the best FPS ever.

[Damien_Azreal]

I reserve that spot for BLOOD. :) But FEAR is great. And FEAR 2 will be better. ;)

[Blue Lightning]

Best of all time = matter of opinion.

Can one game be rated the best by a majority? Sure, and that might make it best by a majority of players, but still everyone will have their own opinion. I rated Half Life 2 a score of 100/100, so to me it is best ever. But when I read debates, I usually see HL2 winning out by a majority...but I have seen a lot of new Bioshock fans voting for it latley.

FEAR had some good moments. But the story was bland, the gameplay was too repetitive, the slo-mo thingy made it too easy. I got bored. Monoliths other game that year (but for the console), was Condemend: Criminal Origins, and that was a far better game in my opinion.

[Damien_Azreal]

The story in FEAR was actually rather well done, had it's little secrets to it and aspects that can make it difficult to follow. The problem with FEAR's story... was how it was told.

Through laptop downloads and phone messages.

[Sang]

Best of all time = matter of opinion.

:insomnia:

Wow.

The 3DR Forums have educated someone! :p

[YicklePigeon]

I remember buying FEAR and Quake 4 together back in late 2005/early 2006, and having played both - my thoughts from back in the day: FEAR held my interest all the way to the end, I didn't mind the office levels (because guess what folks! An office is an office is an office! I've worked in enough of them to know that!) but I found that the game itself went from being action shoot 'em up to scary game for a brief moment and then back to action shoot 'em up.

I wasn't scared by it. System Shock 2 yes. FEAR no.

Best FPS ever? No. NOLF 1, Deus Ex, Duke Nukem 3D, the original Doom are all contenders to the throne and it will be different for everyone...but as for Quake 4? What a boring game!

It looks nice and it ran very smoothly, but it didn't keep me interested like FEAR did - I got roughly a third, maybe half the way in (I don't know as I didn't bother completing it), quit and uninstalled it.

But then, I'd argue that I'm spoiled from playing more story rich and/or choice rich games.

Regards,

Yickle.

[ZuljinRaynor]

Quake 4? What a boring game!


I'll take Quake 4 over FEAR any day. :o

[KaraBulut]

This video pretty much says all about FEAR http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/15-F-E-A-R-Perseus-Mandate

[Damien_Azreal]

I'll take Quake 4 over FEAR any day. :o

To each his own.

And while I like Quake 4, it's rather dull and average. The story is as basic as possible, and they didn't even try to use the Stroggification to change up gameplay.

But, we all have our own taste. FEAR was Game of the Year in 2005 for me. :)

[razgriz]

F.E.A.R. is one of the best FPS experiences in my opinion.

The shoot outs are frantic, the chills genuine, and the audio is amazing.

Having melee attacks is an awesome touch and being able to see your limbs in action is immersing.

[M-Jay]

I'll take Quake 4 over FEAR any day. :o

me too! :D

simple, straight shooter, but i really do enjoy Q4.

[Drazula]

F.E.A.R. was quite good, but I would not label it the best. I think that honor belongs to Bioshock.

[alexgk]

I'll take Quake 4 over FEAR any day. :o

The second half of Quake 4 sucks hard imo.

There are so many great FPSs that is very difficult to tell which one is the best. A matter of opinions...

[shiranui]

As far as Monolith goes, I enjoyed NOLF2 and TRON 2.0 a lot more than FEAR.

[Blue Lightning]

:insomnia:

Wow.

The 3DR Forums have educated someone! :p

Indeed...perhaps a little ;)

And (in my opinion), people talking about Bioshock or Half Life 2 or Duke 3D being best, makes sense. I just dont see how Quake 4 or FEAR really enters in a disscusion of "best ever".

[Delicieuxz]

So, if I only ever played the demo of FEAR, and so had little opinion, but recently played Perseus Mandate and thought that it sucked... is there a chance that I would find FEAR any different than Perseus Mandate?

[Steve]

So, if I only ever played the demo of FEAR, and so had little opinion, but recently played Perseus Mandate and thought that it sucked... is there a chance that I would find FEAR any different than Perseus Mandate?

Very much so.

[Nihilanth]

So, if I only ever played the demo of FEAR, and so had little opinion, but recently played Perseus Mandate and thought that it sucked...

Why would you ever want to play the second expansion before playing the first game? :confused:

[Kien]

The second half of Quake 4 sucks hard imo.

There are so many great FPSs that is very difficult to tell which one is the best. A matter of opinions...
I liked Q4. :) With some big tweaks to the weapons it was fun. 3xLightning gun damage please. The levels felt a bit too straight. Like Doom 3y. We don't need super detailed enclosed factory places. We need varitaion. (-,-) I almost think they drove the grotesque level too hard with all the limpless bodies spasming everywhere, and that big creatures that served some purpose in the buildings, what did it do??

[ZuljinRaynor]

The second half of Quake 4 sucks hard imo.

To many people it's the other way around. :insomnia: Quake 4 gets better with each level until the last boss where it returns to level one quality. :insomnia:

Indeed...perhaps a little ;)

And (in my opinion), people talking about Bioshock or Half Life 2 or Duke 3D being best, makes sense. I just dont see how Quake 4 or FEAR really enters in a disscusion of "best ever".

Easy, cause they like it more. That's how it enters it.

[ZuljinRaynor]

quake 4 was too linear. but fun, if you only want fast killing and , nothing more.

Exactly why I love it. Run and gun and killing. PEW PEW. Pure FPS.

[Kien]

And nolf, havent played that one, im playing my way through nolf2 right now. :)
I hated NOLF2. :mad:

[Steve]

To many people it's the other way around. :insomnia: Quake 4 gets better with each level until the last boss where it returns to level one quality. :insomnia:
.

Also my feelings about the game. Start=boring middle and end=pretty darn good.

[boglito]

Q4 was unfortunately a little on the meh side, but I still enjoyed it. I probably would have picked up an expantion if they made one. Fear, allthough flawed, delivers cqc like no other game and no matter how much the next office looks like the previous it's always a pleassure to terminate clones.

Personally I would have preffered it if Vivendi stuck with the Fear franchise and released its own Fear 2 unrelated to Project Origin. PO would be great also without the name and double the games = double the action, which is Fear's strong point, and hopefully will continue to be.

[Damien_Azreal]

I'm glad Monolith bought back the FEAR title and Vivendi will not have the ability to make their own FEAR 2. With Perseus it was obvious that they were just cashing in on the name... and a FEAR 2 would've been meh at best.

Now, with Lith in control of the IP, the series can only get better.

[Jiminator]

lol.... fear story... bunch of anwering machines that leave you confused and wondering if you "missed" some at the ending.

[Travis]

I hated NOLF2. :mad:

i thought nolf 2 was great :/