George prefers video over screenshots, so......

[KaiserSoze]

how much video of DNF do you want to see?

George over at the shack says he prefers video to screenshots as it naturally shows alot more than static pictures.

The question is, how long do you want your DNF video when 3dr releases it?

I'm in the 30 second catergory. Pretty much like those really short 30 second movie teasers.

I don't want alot of the game spoiled in the video(which spoils gameplay more than screenshots imho).

Screenshots? I really have no preference as long as they keep major plot points/bosses underwraps.

Please do not turn this into a "we want new DNF media" or "release date" thread. Thanks. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Yatta]

As long as the E3 2001 trailer, and in Bink but with HL2-Bink quality.

[Steve]

Yatta said:
As long as the E3 2001 trailer, and in Bink but with HL2-Bink quality.


Groovy

[ultra tree 85!]

I loved the e3 2001 DNF video, and if they release another one, I'd want it to be about the same length. If they made another video with as much of an impact as that one, they would have an excellent video of the game that would definitely get massive attention. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Gryph]

Do you guys just stalk his posts over at the Shack looking for something pertaining to DNF?

[Zaarin]

Well, couple of hours, good story, great action and oh, get me some snacks, will ya. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Little Conqueror]

I'd prefer something two or three minutes long. No spoilers, of course.

[Sayantan]

30 secs http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Tim. Just Tim.]

Uh, was my contribution to this thread deleted?

Was I on to something or something?

Or am I losing my mind and I never actually hit the submit button?

[Neptune]

As long as it isn't like Half Life 2 or Doom 3! JESUS! They showed 9/10's of all the monsters in the screenshots and on the cover of the boxes!

[hell-angel]

Little Conqueror said:
I'd prefer something two or three minutes long. No spoilers, of course.



I prefer this as well. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

EDIT: And I want at least one stripper in it. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hhg.gif

[Water12356]

Tim. Just Tim. Said:

Uh, was my contribution to this thread deleted?

Was I on to something or something?

Or am I losing my mind and I never actually hit the submit button?




Yup mine was too. Just deal with it I guess...

30 seconds sounds good...

[jimbob]

right about now i`d even take a bink file that shows a screenshot of DNF http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Kalki]

Here's my take on the media releases.

Release 10 official screenshots after they have been displayed in Duke's magazine previews (5-7 screenies) and the subsequent month (all 10) in various website spots.

One teaser trailer with a playing time of 30s to 1m a month after that.

One official trailer to be released for maximum hype with length anywhere between 2m 20s (E3'01) to 3m 30s (E3'98).

Five more screenshots.

And then a single 10 minute gameplay video to be released just before the game goes gold. [Prey had 11 and a half minutes of various gameplay snippets in its trailer but it came too early imo]

Total: 15 screenshots and 3 videos. Not counting console promos.

[Assault]

Not including the annoying endless logos at the beginning of the trailer... I'd like something that shows a little monolog and some fly-by shots of a few areas from duke for about 20 seconds, then about a minute or two of action that you can see what’s going on without all those flashing black cuts.
Oh, and a million dollars while were on it.

[December Man]

Well, releasing ANYTHING DNF related would be awesome at this point. Let it be even a 5sec teaser.

[Gaut]

30 secs would be enough with like 10 sec each from 3 diffrent types of enviroment
and absolutley NO distrupting text or logos like that annoying prey trailer that i saw.
just plain ´ol walking around and shooting some stuff at one place without interuptions or teleporting.

[SyntaxN]

Yatta said:
As long as the E3 2001 trailer, and in Bink but with HL2-Bink quality.


exactly http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
I want the trailer to feel epic, like the 2001 version trailer!

[Thewho]

I think the E3 2006 trailer will be at least as long the E3 2001 one.

[Asmodeusz]

15 screenshots released once a week.

After 15 weeks of screenies:

6 short 30 second trailers released every two weeks.

After 12 weeks of mini trailers:

DNF release!

And so you have media and hype 6 months before release http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Nacho]

I love the whole 2001 trailer. I love the style of how it seemed more like a movie trailer then a game trailer which I fell in love with.

I would like another video that is like a movie trailer.

[Kristian Joensen]

I would like to see a video and/or screenshots with before and after pictures concerning the restart.

[Vivi]

I just don't want to see the game title flashed between every other game segment, like in the '98 video.

Just something that really shows what the game is.

[Beelze]

I wish a moderator would not delete this thread, as "they" have done in the past with similar threads. The purpose of this thread is not begging for media, and so far, no one has done that. Even if that would happen, one person appearing displeased with the lack of media is not a good enough reason to break up the discussion for everyone.

On-topic: The E3 vid from 2001 grabbed my attention like no other trailer has managed since. It was of a very good length and hardly seemed to really spoil anything, and it never lingered too long on any one feature or location. At the end, I was pumped up for the game.

I wish the next big trailer would be like that, and I wish it'd have the same quality of the Bink vids Valve released to promote Half-Life 2. I also think that they should release a few Binks that focus on one gameplay feature (one gameplay feature per Bink.) These Binks would be for those not entirely sold on the game.

[Denz]

People so much want to see DNF that they hope to see the big messie comming from the bloomy sky to give them the beautifulest game ever. But when they will see it's like a game, and not heaven, they'll be dispointed. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


Anyway a 30 second video like DNF E3 Video is the best. It don't show gameplay at first, it blow you away, and you want to play it. And when you will start to play it, you will be happy.

[FireFly]

The 2001 E3 trailor was 2:26 minutes in length. I think I'd like one 3 minute trailer equivalent to the E3 one, and a handful of screenshots. Then just before the game is released I think I'd like another 1 minute trailer to get me stoked again.

I hope they don't overdo it on the screenshots - I'd like the game to be as visually fresh as possible, and I think frequent media exposure can actually devalue a games appeal.

[lonestar]

FireFly said:
I hope they don't overdo it on the screenshots - I'd like the game to be as visually fresh as possible, and I think frequent media exposure can actually devalue a games appeal.



^^^^

[Thewho]

I bet you they'll include an exclusive trailer on the prey dvd as a promotion. That will likely be the first unveiling of the game.

You read it here first.

[Tim. Just Tim.]

As much as I really really really really want to see some DNF media right frikkin now, I really hope they hold out as long as possible and release as little as possible. For eg 2 screenshots 1 week before the game hits shelves would be perfect (though totally unrealistic, I know).

I saw so much of HL2 by the time I first played it that there was virtually nothing new to me. I think thats one of the main reasons that I was largely unimpressed with the game. Looking back now, I realize its an amazing game, the best out there today by far. But at the time I was so saturated with HL2 media and info that I was just like 'yea ok... is this it ?'

It doesnt take much to ruin a game like that. You guys are talking about 2 - 3 minute videos, thats crazy! Thats enough time to show all 15 enemies and all 10 guns or whatever. Not that they would do that. But those 2-3 minutes are going to be filled with *something* good. 10 years of waiting all blown in 2 minutes.

Im like a fat guy and 3dr is the candyman. I really really want that chocolate bar, but at the same time I hope they dont give it to me for my own good. So I have room for caek.

[Denz]

Han it will tell you the story plot in 2 - 3 minutes.

Teh situation has deteriorated. Teh monsters are commeing from averywhere. You can't trust Anywone. They stolen teh president.


And you may also see :

"Han! They are averywere! People are turneing into munsters! Please help us! plzkthxbey"

"Hey pal, what are you gonna do save teh werld all by yerself?"



And big Duke Golden Eagles eadshoting heads, motorbike riding. And more. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[FireFly]

Tim. Just Tim. said:
It doesnt take much to ruin a game like that. You guys are talking about 2 - 3 minute videos, thats crazy! Thats enough time to show all 15 enemies and all 10 guns or whatever. Not that they would do that. But those 2-3 minutes are going to be filled with *something* good. 10 years of waiting all blown in 2 minutes.


The DNF trailer was 2:26 minutes in length and yet it revealed only a very small amount of actual gameplay. To this day we still have virtually no idea how DNF plays. I know 2 - 3 minutes seems like a long time, but in terms of the gameplay experience it really isn't.

I mean the Prey trailer was 12 minutes and I still don't feel the game has been spoiled. The situation with HL2 is really not comparable - we were shown 40 minutes of footage! That's insane.

[Cerberus_e]

FireFly said:
The 2001 E3 trailor was 2:26 minutes in length. I think I'd like one 3 minute trailer equivalent to the E3 one, and a handful of screenshots. Then just before the game is released I think I'd like another 1 minute trailer to get me stoked again.




as much as I like 5 second sequences like in the 2001 video because they don't show much, I think at least the video should start with a continuous sequence of 30 seconds so we get a basic idea of how the game plays http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
then it ends with a cliffhanger and the sequence ends, immediately followed by lots of action packed 5 second sequences until the trailer ends http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif.

of course, at the very start there NEEDS to be a nuke exploding like in duke3D & the 2001 video.


FireFly said:
I hope they don't overdo it on the screenshots - I'd like the game to be as visually fresh as possible, and I think frequent media exposure can actually devalue a games appeal.



yes, imagine them making an E3 video of 30 minutes length, that gets captured by fans on a camera and released as a one gigabyte low quality video on the internet.
then the company releasing one independent 1-3 minute sequences from the E3 video in high quality bink format each month.
and then after a year another 30 minutes E3 video of which again one of the independant sequences gets released every month in a high quality bink video.
which company would be bright enough to do that? http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/doh.gif http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif



Re: George prefers video over screenshots, so.....




what about 360 degree quicktime screenshot?
imagine how cool it would be to see a vegas landscape at night with casinos on both sides of the street and lots of lightning advertentions present, and the camera standing in the middle of the street between all cars passing by (with motion blur because it's a screenshot).
then you use the mouse to gradually turn the screenshot around 180 degrees and a battlelord is standing there right in front of you, shooting his machinegun with lots of fancy lightning effects, and the grim look in his face!

I'd be intimidated when I saw that http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Beelze]

Cerberus_e said:
yes, imagine them making an E3 video of 30 minutes length, that gets captured by fans on a camera and released as a one gigabyte low quality video on the internet.
then the company releasing one independent 1-3 minute sequences from the E3 video in high quality bink format each month.
and then after a year another 30 minutes E3 video of which again one of the independant sequences gets released every month in a high quality bink video.
which company would be bright enough to do that? http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/doh.gif http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif


And what kind of a moron would actually watch it all, instead of just deciding that he has seen enough and make the decision of whether or not he should purchase the game or not? http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

But, yeah, they did over-expose it to the public. Too much pride, which comes natural with such a great game, I guess. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[DK2000]

Well right now george prefers to release no media over releasing any kind of DNF media http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Assault]

FireFly said:

Tim. Just Tim. said:
It doesnt take much to ruin a game like that. You guys are talking about 2 - 3 minute videos, thats crazy! Thats enough time to show all 15 enemies and all 10 guns or whatever. Not that they would do that. But those 2-3 minutes are going to be filled with *something* good. 10 years of waiting all blown in 2 minutes.


The DNF trailer was 2:26 minutes in length and yet it revealed only a very small amount of actual gameplay. To this day we still have virtually no idea how DNF plays. I know 2 - 3 minutes seems like a long time, but in terms of the gameplay experience it really isn't.

I mean the Prey trailer was 12 minutes and I still don't feel the game has been spoiled. The situation with HL2 is really not comparable - we were shown 40 minutes of footage! That's insane.



Then that makes HL2 a sad game, if 40 minutes of footage can ruin almost the entire game. If a game brings more or less 12 hours of gameplay, then more than half of it should be kept fresh and as least repetitiveness as possible.
No, I never played Half-Life 2.

[Little Conqueror]

Assault said:

FireFly said:

Tim. Just Tim. said:
It doesnt take much to ruin a game like that. You guys are talking about 2 - 3 minute videos, thats crazy! Thats enough time to show all 15 enemies and all 10 guns or whatever. Not that they would do that. But those 2-3 minutes are going to be filled with *something* good. 10 years of waiting all blown in 2 minutes.


The DNF trailer was 2:26 minutes in length and yet it revealed only a very small amount of actual gameplay. To this day we still have virtually no idea how DNF plays. I know 2 - 3 minutes seems like a long time, but in terms of the gameplay experience it really isn't.

I mean the Prey trailer was 12 minutes and I still don't feel the game has been spoiled. The situation with HL2 is really not comparable - we were shown 40 minutes of footage! That's insane.



Then that makes HL2 a sad game, if 40 minutes of footage can ruin almost the entire game. If a game brings more or less 12 hours of gameplay, then more than half of it should be kept fresh and as least repetitiveness as possible.
No, I never played Half-Life 2.



It wasn't that HL2 was short. It was that the video and other media showed off every single important plot point in the game except for the ending. I knew who all of the characters were before the game even began. Doesn't make the game any worse, just made the experience less enjoyable than it could have been.

This is why you can't have too much video, especially over one gameplay segment. The DNF 2001 E3 trailer did it best: it showed very, very brief clips of some very cool things, such as the motorcycle ride, the pinball machine, the mine cart, and the riot shield.

[mysteryperfecta]

Kalki said:
Here's my take on the media releases.




I like your take; I'd change a little bit.

One movie-style trailer is fine (as is a little teaser). All other video should be unedited gameplay footage in 30-second snippets. I'd release one a month until the street date.

Ten screenshots is also a fine initial release. But again, I would stagger the release of any other screenshots, perhaps one a week until release. These staggered releases would be at established times each week, to be something fans could anticipate.

We still end up with about the same amount of media released. I'm basing my thinking on a three-month announcement-to-release PR window, which I think is plenty.

[Damien_Azreal]

I loved the DFN 2001 E3 trailer, have saved on my PC so I can watch it whenever I want.

I would love something with that same setup, going through the other games (and even going through the early builds of DNF) then showing us the glory and wonder that is DNF. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Same length and content... lots of action with little hints at the story.

[Seraph]

I'm thinking a video of no more than 3 minutes in length will various short scenes from amid the game. They don't all need to be gameplay. As a matter of fact, I would settle for weapon renders, flybys, tech show offs over entirely consisting of gameplay footage. One or two scenes just to show us it works, and that would do.

Think E3 2001 vid meets HL2 Benchmark Demo meets theatrical trailer. This is keeping content protected at all times. Build a room just to show this stuff off... No actual game footage might be cool. Gawd no more HL2 movies... Make em' HIGH QUALITY though! Valve's Binks looked like they were running the game real-time almost.

BTW I have no Internet at my new Apartment. (Yea, I move a lot.) It'll happen via Wifi when it does! Been a while, folks.

[Kristian Joensen]

"We still end up with about the same amount of media released. I'm basing my thinking on a three-month announcement-to-release PR window, which I think is plenty."

Wasn't that exactly as was done with Max Payne 2, 3D Realms wheren't happy with the Max Payne 2 hype.

Anyway here is what Scott had to say about hyping games:

"o We had a controlled, deliberate marketing plan for Max Payne, designed to ramp up the game's buzz and news-worthiness. A key way to make a game news-worthy is to give it a news-worthy attribute, and position it as a category leader. Second, do not hype the game -- let press and players do that for you. And third, keep the game exclusive by not releasing too many screen shots or too much news about the game. I've seen too many times publishers and/or developers flood websites with shots and info, and quickly news about the game becomes tiresome. With Max, we teased, but we didn't show too much. And when we did show, we knocked socks off by showing content and effects that were never seen before."

[Cerberus_e]

Beelze said:
And what kind of a moron would actually watch it all, instead of just deciding that he has seen enough and make the decision of whether or not he should purchase the game or not? http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif




because that kind of moron read gabe newell's comment that the videos don't spoil the game because "there is so much more", according to him.


Beelze said:
But, yeah, they did over-expose it to the public. Too much pride, which comes natural with such a great game, I guess. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif



it wasn't pride, half of what they showed was a lie http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


Assault said:
Then that makes HL2 a sad game, if 40 minutes of footage can ruin almost the entire game. If a game brings more or less 12 hours of gameplay, then more than half of it should be kept fresh and as least repetitiveness as possible.
No, I never played Half-Life 2.



but that 40 minutes video is divided into 2-3 minute sequences.
each from a different chapter of the game.
when I played HL2, every new art direction introduced during the game wasn't new to me because I already saw it in the videos.

[Damien_Azreal]

but that 40 minutes video is divided into 2-3 minute sequences.
each from a different chapter of the game.
when I played HL2, every new art direction introduced during the game wasn't new to me because I already saw it in the videos.



Makes me glad I didn't have a decent internet connection then. All the videos were to large for me to download. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Cerberus_e]

Damien_Azreal said:

but that 40 minutes video is divided into 2-3 minute sequences.
each from a different chapter of the game.
when I played HL2, every new art direction introduced during the game wasn't new to me because I already saw it in the videos.



Makes me glad I didn't have a decent internet connection then. All the videos were to large for me to download. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif



I was also stuck on a very slow connection back then.
I just downloaded one or two bink videos every night while I was sleeping, and after two weeks I had them all http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[big fat lazy]

Little Conqueror said:
I knew who all of the characters were before the game even began.


Wasn't Alyx the only new character?

[Mr.Sociopath]

"we want new DNF media" and "release date"

[Kalki]

mysteryperfecta said:
These staggered releases would be at established times each week, to be something fans could anticipate.



It certainly is a popular idea around here but I don't see it working beyond this board. When you're dealing with the public out there, you need to hit them by surprise and hit them hard. A single screenshot or video clip on a scheduled delivery timetable doesn't make for much of a discussion point nor spawn hype articles. A once in a lifetime, all-encompassing, cinematic trailer or gameplay video makes for a much better talking point. The silence caused in their wake fills itself.

Also the teaser and 5 later screenshots I mentioned could be from the console version. The screenshot aspects could be at HDTV res or like the panoramic quicktime shots we saw with Quake 4.

[dark_angel]

I hate teasers, A full blown trailer like the E3 2001 would be a killer idea!

Of course everyone prefer videos over screenshots but what will be released first depend on where to reveal the game.

[hell-angel]

Denz said:
People so much want to see DNF that they hope to see the big messie comming from the bloomy sky to give them the beautifulest game ever. But when they will see it's like a game, and not heaven, they'll be dispointed. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif





If DNF was released with the second comming of christ, no one would care about christ.

http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Asmodeusz]

I think the screenshots and trailers of DNF should be from the first (or maybe second) level only.

This way everything beyond the first few minutes of gameplay would be fresh and new to discover http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif Additionally the media shouldn't point at the plot at all.

[Cerberus_e]

bad idea, I like at least a few different places in the screenshots http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
also, screenshots from the opening level ruin even more than screenshots from around 1/4 into the game, in my opinion http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[FireFly]

Cerberus_e said:
it wasn't pride, half of what they showed was a lie http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


They showed the semi-scripted movies that were made as 'proof of concept' demo reels for Gabe Newell. I'm sure to some extent they were proud of these sequences, after all Gabe had been previously unimpressed with the movies they'd put together.

By showing all of the 'proof on concept' movies to the world they were saying "Look! This is what we can do".

[hell-angel]

FireFly said:

Cerberus_e said:
it wasn't pride, half of what they showed was a lie http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


They showed the semi-scripted movies that were made as 'proof of concept' demo reels for Gabe Newell. I'm sure to some extent they were proud of these sequences, after all Gabe had been previously unimpressed with the movies they'd put together.

By showing all of the 'proof on concept' movies to the world they were saying "Look! This is what we can do".



I think that most people don't care about what they can do, but more about what they will do, because that's what you end up with. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Assault]

Cerberus_e said:

Damien_Azreal said:

but that 40 minutes video is divided into 2-3 minute sequences.
each from a different chapter of the game.
when I played HL2, every new art direction introduced during the game wasn't new to me because I already saw it in the videos.



Makes me glad I didn't have a decent internet connection then. All the videos were to large for me to download. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif



I was also stuck on a very slow connection back then.
I just downloaded one or two bink videos every night while I was sleeping, and after two weeks I had them all http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif



Are you a bear?
You were spleeping for two weeks? http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dopefish.gif

[Cerberus_e]

you overlooked the words "every night"

[mysteryperfecta]

Kristian Joensen said:

Wasn't that exactly as was done with Max Payne 2, 3D Realms wheren't happy with the Max Payne 2 hype.




Might be similar. Were they unhappy because they didn't feel they had enough time? I haven't heard that. Remedy did release short clips of gameplay footage, as I mentioned for DNF.


When you're dealing with the public out there, you need to hit them by surprise and hit them hard. A single screenshot or video clip on a scheduled delivery timetable doesn't make for much of a discussion point nor spawn hype articles.



But I'm for an initial onslaught of trailer/screenshots like you mentioned. And that's why I think that the release needs to come not long after the reveal. If DNF is as good as we hope, then reviews and word-of-mouth will be the most effective PR.

Perhaps the staggered media releases I mentioned (that occur from reveal-to-release) could be more than just a standard screenshot. Perhaps one could be a Quicktime VR. One could be a map-editor (skeletal) view of an entire level. One could be a high-poly character model pic.

The public's attention span is short. If you get the public excited, you need to be able to capitalize on it(hello, xbox 360?)

[Kalki]

mysteryperfecta said:
But I'm for an initial onslaught of trailer/screenshots like you mentioned. And that's why I think that the release needs to come not long after the reveal.


I was referring solely to the staggered releases you mentioned. I agree that the public's attention span is short. So in the case of staggered media releases, they're constantly going to be asking whether they've seen this video/screenshot before. It gets confusing imo. I myself have ended up redownloading HL2 gameplay videos just to make sure I didn't miss them. A single teaser, a single trailer, a single gameplay video, a set of 10 initial screenshots, a set of 5 QT VR shots- these are all easily identifiable categories that can stand on their own.

And I agree that six months may be too long an additional wait for DNF after the first media break, although my vision of the media releases does support a six month period. But people just don't have the patience or the attention spans to wait six months without things getting boring. Worse, they don't have the confidence that the game won't slip into delays longer than the six months. The closer the game is, the more assured they are that nothing can go wrong and it makes sense too.

[Little Conqueror]

big fat lazy said:

Little Conqueror said:
I knew who all of the characters were before the game even began.


Wasn't Alyx the only new character?



That's not what I meant. I meant this:

<table><tr><th><font size="-1">Spoiler below:</font></th></tr><tr><td class="spoiler">I KNEW Dr. Breen was the administrator of Black Mesa and interim administrator of Earth. I KNEW that Alyx had a robot named Dog and that she was a tomboyish genius. I KNEW that Judith Mossman was actually working for Dr. Breen.</td></tr></table>

The ridiculous amount of media and information released on the game ruined the entire plot.

[Cerberus_e]

FireFly said:

Cerberus_e said:
it wasn't pride, half of what they showed was a lie http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


They showed the semi-scripted movies that were made as 'proof of concept' demo reels for Gabe Newell.



they didn't say it was proof of concept.

when the strider ducked under the bridge, Gabe didn't say: "and what you are seeing is proof of concept, none of this is AI!"
he said: "what you are seeing is AI, none of this is scripted!"

[Tim. Just Tim.]

Little Conqueror said:

big fat lazy said:

Little Conqueror said:
I knew who all of the characters were before the game even began.


Wasn't Alyx the only new character?



That's not what I meant. I meant this:

<table><tr><th><font size="-1">Spoiler below:</font></th></tr><tr><td class="spoiler">I KNEW Dr. Breen was the administrator of Black Mesa and interim administrator of Earth. I KNEW that Alyx had a robot named Dog and that she was a tomboyish genius. I KNEW that Judith Mossman was actually working for Dr. Breen.</td></tr></table>

The ridiculous amount of media and information released on the game ruined the entire plot.



Yes, but how much do you already know about DNF if you sit and think about it? Quite a bit I think.

Maybe its just me, but I generally dont give a shit about the story in games. Something vague like 'Aliens are here, theyre violent and they want to steal our chicks. Its time to kick ass and chew bubble gum' - is perfect for me.

Everybody is always whining that FPS games dont have enough story, or that the story is lame. Im the opposite. The less story, the better. I would much rather the developers spend the time working on advanced blood splatters or game performance profiling and tweaking.

If you want a story go read a frikkin book, or play final fantasy.

[Cerberus_e]

Tim. Just Tim. said:
Yes, but how much do you already know about DNF if you sit and think about it? Quite a bit I think.




nothing about the story. we know there is bombshell, and maybe there is a president too? but for the rest, we don't know anything, and especially not compared to the HL2 stuff you quoted.


Tim. Just Tim. said:
If you want a story go read a frikkin book, or play final fantasy.



the rest of your post was OK, until this comment http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif
I love good stories in games (eg: Prince of Persia: Sands of Time, Doom 3, ...) but I hate reading books.

[Tim. Just Tim.]

Cerberus_e said:

Tim. Just Tim. said:
Yes, but how much do you already know about DNF if you sit and think about it? Quite a bit I think.




nothing about the story. we know there is bombshell, and maybe there is a president too? but for the rest, we don't know anything, and especially not compared to the HL2 stuff you quoted.



The HL2 stuff I quoted?? Alyx had a dog? Big freeking deal.

I dont personally know much about the Duke Nukem story, but Im sure someone like Kaiser could come in and fill pages of info. Aliens invading earth, attempting to steal the chicks, something about a Dr. Proton, Duke likes chicks so he wont allow this. A guy named gus who is friendly, a donkey, its set in Las Vegas, possibly a chick named bombshell with big tits. I think we know most of the main parts of the story.

Cerberus_e said:

Tim. Just Tim. said:
If you want a story go read a frikkin book, or play final fantasy.


the rest of your post was OK, until this comment http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif
I love good stories in games (eg: Prince of Persia: Sands of Time, Doom 3, ...) but I hate reading books.




I know you love stories in games. Or at least I assumed you did. Most people do. The point of my post as that I dont particularly care for stories in games, at least not in the amount of detail that gamers are demanding.

Good games take years of design and programming and artwork and debugging and all the rest. And on top of it they need to have a hollywood quality story complete with plot twists and deep characters and emotional components? Sure that stuff is all well and good but I buy the game for the blowing shit up and interactivity part, not for the story.

I would much rather have a game with awesome graphics and interactivity and shitty story, then a game with so-so graphics and interactivity and a great story.

By the way, doom3 didnt have a 'good' story. In fact, it had the exact kind of story that I like - simple and to the point. You can tell the game wasnt delayed for any amount of time for the sake of the story. No tiny details or dozens of names and places to worry about, or other bullshit. Just enough to give you a vague idea about why you are killing everything that moves, not that it matters why http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Distant planet in the future, scientists working on teleportation, accidentally opened portal to hell, unnamed marine sent in to kick ass. Badabing badaboom theres your story.

[John]

Ofcourse theres a difference between indepth shooters/games and the usual run-and-gun shooters.


It's all a matter of depth

[Cerberus_e]

Tim. Just Tim. said:
The HL2 stuff I quoted?? Alyx had a dog? Big freeking deal.




no, read the spoiler tag, there is a lot there (in fact, everything is there, and it's all in the videos).
so was every single art direction from the game: all in videos.


Tim. Just Tim. said:
I dont personally know much about the Duke Nukem story, but Im sure someone like Kaiser could come in and fill pages of info. Aliens invading earth, attempting to steal the chicks, something about a Dr. Proton, Duke likes chicks so he wont allow this. A guy named gus who is friendly, a donkey, its set in Las Vegas, possibly a chick named bombshell with big tits. I think we know most of the main parts of the story.




no, he can't, and half of what you said is not even confirmed anymore.
for all we know, there might be a lot more characters and places in the game. definitely places.


Tim. Just Tim. said:
By the way, doom3 didnt have a 'good' story. In fact, it had the exact kind of story that I like - simple and to the point.
...
Distant planet in the future, scientists working on teleportation, accidentally opened portal to hell, unnamed marine sent in to kick ass. Badabing badaboom theres your story.



no, that's just the story shortly summarized.
I'm sure you didn't read the PDAs (because you don't like story), maybe you quickly skimmed through them for codes but that's probably it http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I can summarize stories like that, too.

prince of persia: sands of time?
oh, sands of time getting unleashed, everyone turns into sand monsters, the prince comes and saves the day.

max payne?
oh, his wife and baby is murdered, then he goes after the bad guys.

see? http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Tang Lung]

I want to see as little of the game as possible, I'd be happy with a short trailer and a couple of good (non deceptive!) screenshots. Im not going to read any interviews because dev's always over hype their stuff, and when it eventually hits the shelves half of the stuff that they claimed either isnt in there or is incredibly underwhelming.

[baff]

What about a composite trailer made out of all the old games showing off all the highlights and absolutley nothing about the new game except maybe the box or one final second of the his latest incarnation delivering a punch line.

a Duke Nukem evolver.


Spoiler free atmospherics.

[hell-angel]

Guys, it's about what you want in the trailer and how long you want it. NOT about what other games did.

Remember, DNF don't need that much hype because magazines will pick it up anyway without to much trouble from 3DR's side. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif If only to make a joke about it, but the first rule of advertisement is that there is no such thing as bad advertisment. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Beelze]

Cerberus_e said:
it wasn't pride, half of what they showed was a lie http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


Pretending that you're right, the sad thing is that you seem genuinely happy about them lying. Perhaps you should reconsider your use of smilies. There's no need to make every sentence you write seem "happy," or "friendly."

[Asmodeusz]

Beelze said:

Cerberus_e said:
it wasn't pride, half of what they showed was a lie http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


Pretending that you're right, the sad thing is that you seem genuinely happy about them lying. Perhaps you should reconsider your use of smilies. There's no need to make every sentence you write seem "happy," or "friendly."



Oh, come on. He's just a friendly guy he didn't want to offend anyone so he put a smiley there.

Back on topic:

The idea with showing stuff from one level only is what I guess is best. Maybe not the first, but maybe second level. It makes you familiar with one chapter only and it makes the rest of the game free to discover.

I was really dissapointed with the F.E.A.R. demo - as it spoiled a lot to me, and made no level feel different from others. Also spoiling the girl thread was plain dumb. In most cases it didn't scare me at all - as I was so familiar with the game. Don't get me wrong I loved FEAR but mainly for it's great playability.

[Beelze]

Asmodeusz said:
Oh, come on. He's just a friendly guy he didn't want to offend anyone so he put a smiley there.


I get more offended when people smile over tragedies than when they maintain a serious face. Besides, I'm just a friendly guy who offered him some advice.

Here, have a http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif.

[Micki!]

I'd prefer a 2 min trailer, and maybe a 2-3 minute gameplay movie, showing different locations... (enough to make you interrested, but less enough to avoid spoilers...)

About the smiley thing above:
I really REALLY can't wait for DNF to be released... http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif (The smiley could make this seem like a sarcastic message) http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/redface.gif (<-- No, i'm not embarrassed) http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dopefish.gif (<-- I'm not being stupid either)

http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Kristian Joensen]

I'd like to see some small vidoes showing off engine features and gameplay elements without showing any of the actuall game levels.

[Cerberus_e]

Kristian Joensen said:
without showing any of the actuall game levels.



good idea, but there is one big disadvantage: lots of people are going to get attached to a particular scene, and will be disappointed it's not in the final game.

[Micki!]

Cerberus_e said:

Kristian Joensen said:
without showing any of the actuall game levels.



good idea, but there is one big disadvantage: lots of people are going to get attached to a particular scene, and will be disappointed it's not in the final game.



That's true...
So if they'd make this, they would have to make at least a similar scene during the actual game... Then no one will get dissapointed...

I think...

[Cerberus_e]

Micki! said:

Cerberus_e said:

Kristian Joensen said:
without showing any of the actuall game levels.



good idea, but there is one big disadvantage: lots of people are going to get attached to a particular scene, and will be disappointed it's not in the final game.



That's true...
So if they'd make this, they would have to make at least a similar scene during the actual game... Then no one will get dissapointed...

I think...



that's not true, the phenomenon of getting disappointed by scenes from pre-release videos that got cut in the final game became so popular that there's an adjective for it now: "trapped down".

[Kristian Joensen]

An example of this is the interview with Paul Schuytema from 1998, the part where he shows the destrutable enviroments, there Paul mentions that HE made that level. So it was basicaly made for presentation purposes.

I don't think people would be disappointed so long as the features themselves are in the full game. Also noone would be disappointed by the lack of the levels if they sucked. Even if they didn't suck 3DR could always release them as part of a mappack.

The biggest problem with this idea are the resources required to make such presentation levels/rooms, however if done like the above mentioned Prey example it would only have to be one or two simple rooms.

I am not suggesting this as an alternative to standard trailer but to supplement them.

[Cerberus_e]

Kristian Joensen said:
An example of this is the interview with Paul Schuytema from 1998, the part where he shows the destrutable enviroments, there Paul mentions that HE made that level. So it was basicaly made for presentation purposes.




yes, but these are engine show-off sequences, and aren't detailled at all.
they didn't show any real prey gameplay.
We still don't know how the original prey played, we just knew some of the features and the graphics http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


Kristian Joensen said:
I don't think people would be disappointed so long as the features themselves are in the full game. Also noone would be disappointed by the lack of the levels if they sucked. Even if they didn't suck 3DR could always release them as part of a mappack.

The biggest problem with this idea are the resources required to make such presentation levels/rooms, however if done like the above mentioned Prey example it would only have to be one or two simple rooms.




well, I for one am already attached to the sequences shown in the prey E3 2005 movie.
Suppose they replaced the cubus puzzle by another puzzle then prey will be a trapped down game for me.

[Kristian Joensen]

"yes, but these are engine show-off sequences, and aren't detailled at all.
they didn't show any real prey gameplay.
We still don't know how the original prey played, we just knew some of the features and the graphics"

That was exactly the point with my idea, only they should ALSO show gameplay features. Remember this is meant to complement and not replace normal hype.

[Cerberus_e]

as long as it's not in cool looking environments, then it's ok.

[Kristian Joensen]

They can be in cool looking enviroments so long as those enviroments are released on the goodies section of the CD/DVD or are released in a free map pack.

[clayasaurus]

The same length as the 2001 trailer, just don't show DN3D and old school Duke, we've already seen that, we want to see DNF.

[John]

Kristian Joensen said:
They can be in cool looking enviroments so long as those enviroments are released on the goodies section of the CD/DVD or are released in a free map pack.



Agreed.


Why not release the trailer on a customized map created PURELY for tech purposes, like Valve did?


You dont have to ruin the game for everyone (like Valve did aswell http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif ), just show us how the game looks. The level can be completely different scenario than any other level in the game.

[Cerberus_e]

because, like I said, you'll feel attached to the scenes from the trailer, and be disappointed they're not in the full game.
but if the map is included as extra with the game it's ok http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Wamplet]

I think JT's recommendation stands.

(see sig)

[Halcyon]

The E3 2001 Trailer was one of the best game trailers I've ever seen, so I hope 3DR will show the new material in a similar way. As long as there are no spoilers, of course http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tinyted.gif

[Euwie]

Assault said:
Not including the annoying endless logos at the beginning of the trailer...



I think the logo's make a big difference to the video, as it get you all exited for whats coming.

Excluding the begin and end logo's 30's should be lekka! http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Suteki]

I prefer screenshots over video.

But neither is as good as a playable demo. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Nihilanth]

Cerberus_e said:
because, like I said, you'll feel attached to the scenes from the trailer, and be disappointed they're not in the full game.
but if the map is included as extra with the game it's ok http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif



Yeah, that's pretty true, you'll always look at places from trailer/screenshot in a different way than at those that are not in it.

As for trailer, some nice pure action scenes would be cool, but they have to show as much of how the game really looks and feels like as possible. BTW: 2001 trailer was awesome, well, I was impressed after watching it for the first time.

[Water12356]

Halcyon said:
The E3 2001 Trailer was one of the best game trailers I've ever seen, so I hope 3DR will show the new material in a similar way. As long as there are no spoilers, of course http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tinyted.gif



True true.

[Jin Saotome]

Hello everyone, I'm fairly new to this boards, anyway...

I suggest a short 40 second trailer, the thing is to get everyone hooked into the game, but as several people stated before try not to exxagerate the content of the game, to prevent dissapointments like this game that began with "Dai" and ended with "Katana" *Anyone remembers those "You'll be our B!tch" messages in the marketing of this game? http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif*

For example, take Flatout trailers for example, they showed the graphics (duh! :P) physics engine in gameplay without overexaggerating the whole thing, and they pretty much reflected what happens in the game.

I hope this games kicks as much ass as I believe it will, and redefines the first person shooters genre, since it has been pretty stale recently.

[Micki!]

Jin Saotome said:
Hello everyone, I'm fairly new to this boards



Hi, and welcome to our boards then... http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif
(Hehe, your name reminds me of one of my favorite comics http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif)

[DavoX]

I encourage 3dRealms to NOT release anything else before they start taking orders, i want to have a lot of surprises! And i hope you guys dont use any of the things that are in this forum, otherwise the game is already spoiled! http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

[hell-angel]

DavoX said:

I encourage 3dRealms to NOT release anything else before they start taking orders, i want to have a lot of surprises! And i hope you guys dont use any of the things that are in this forum, otherwise the game is already spoiled! http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif



iirc, GB once said that most of the things in the games have allready been mentionend by the forums users over the years. So, to late. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[lonestar]

link?

[FireFly]

"Don't remember. Too many ideas from the team and all over. It's all a blur at this point. The fans have suggested lots of things we were already doing, or guessed some things though. Actually at one point or another, pretty much the whole game exists in random comments on these forums."

http://ultr4kr4ss0rh4x0r.l33tw4r3z.de/duke4/thread.php?tid=563

There was an earlier quote as well, where George commented that someone would mention an idea on the forums and then they'd happen to implement that feature shortly afterwards.

[DavoX]

That means im gonna have to STOP reading the posts http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif too bad, i just got my account and im already leaving http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

[Kristian Joensen]

There is no reason for that. You don't know what is in and what isn't in from the posts, besides that quote is rather old.

[Micki!]

DavoX said:
That means im gonna have to STOP reading the posts http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif too bad, i just got my account and im already leaving http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif



Don't worry...
That counts old (VERY OLD) posts too... And you'd have to put them all together, and find the right ones before anything could be spoiled for you...

I would most likely have a few "Deja-vu" occations in DNF...

[FireFly]

Even I have no idea what posts George might be referring to. If you have to play the game to know what ideas have been used then it's hardly being spoilt is it? The impact will be the same, and in any case nothing is completely original anyway.

What does it matter if you experience a new feature and think "hey, my friend suggested this 2 years ago" or "I saw a forum post suggesting this" or "I always wondered when a game would do this"?

[Cerberus_e]

DavoX said:
That means im gonna have to STOP reading the posts http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif too bad, i just got my account and im already leaving http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif



Of course not. We, the forumers that were here longer than you, have been bullshitting a lot in this forum.
If every single comment from this forum was used in the game DNF would be 4862 hours of playing http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Rest assured, even after being on the forums for two years in my case I'm very sure there'll be a lot of surprises. So you don't have to worry at all http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif Even things from the game that look like a guess of one of the fans from this forum will be a surprise, since we don't know what will be in the game or not.
I'm fairly confident that you could even make a game with every feature from any game ever and every feature that one can possibly imagine, if you sticked all posts from this forum together http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Every possible location a game can have has been discussed. There is absolutely NO way for us to make a long list of potential DNF locations, or we'd have to write down everything on earth, including things that don't exist http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Gideon]

I don't want to see any old footage, or any anniversary stuff. I just want to see a professionally done trailer that conveys the gravity of the situation the earth is in, and how badass duke is gonna be. It would also be nice to see a little humor in it, but mostly badass.

[Denz]

Something as impressive as the 2001 trailer.

[Tim. Just Tim.]

Gideon said:
I don't want to see any old footage, or any anniversary stuff. I just want to see a professionally done trailer that conveys the gravity of the situation the earth is in, and how badass duke is gonna be. It would also be nice to see a little humor in it, but mostly badass.


Yeah. YEAH!

[hell-angel]

Cerberus_e said:
If every single comment from this forum was used in the game DNF would be 4862 hours of playing http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif




Understatement. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif