what I want from DNF.

[Eztli Nahua]

I want a game where I can run it, load a level, and in under five minutes kill 30 aliens, with lots of one-liners, cursing, and blood. And gore. And explosions. And bullets. And maybe some babes. Oh, and the explosions have to look real. Like they blew up some guys they hired to see what someone exploding looks like.

[Halcyon]

Eztli Nahua said:
I want a game where I can run it, load a level, and in under five minutes kill 30 aliens, with lots of one-liners, cursing, and blood. And gore. And explosions. And bullets

Sounds like Serious Sam 2.

[Murder]

Eztli Nahua said:
I want a game where I can run it, load a level, and in under five minutes kill 30 aliens, with lots of one-liners, cursing, and blood. And gore. And explosions. And bullets. And maybe some babes. Oh, and the explosions have to look real. Like they blew up some guys they hired to see what someone exploding looks like.



Dude, you should try Postal 2

[Cerberus_e]

If that's DNF then it's going to be immensely boring.

[Gibaholic]

Judging from the 2001 trailer id say its going to be fun instead of what you asked for. But im still wondering if there's going to be weapon reloading or not : l

[mysteryperfecta]

That's setting quite a pace. I don't mind frantic sections; I'd rather have fewer kills that are more satisfying because the AI is smart and challenging. I don't want a FPS version of Galaga, where waves of mindless enemies are constantly coming at you. Just my preference.

[Cerberus_e]

Gibaholic said:
Judging from the 2001 trailer id say its going to be fun instead of what you asked for. But im still wondering if there's going to be weapon reloading or not : l



Yes, I think I read in the DNF faq there is going to be reloading.
Or it's in one of George's quotes (ask KJ about it, he has a goldmine).
anyway, I'm fairly confident there will be reloading.
No reloading only fits for "ow yeah bunnyhopper against 50 enemies" games http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif We aren't thinking about Painkiller http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

And by the way, it would be cool to have lots of aliens in a closed arena against duke, but not if it's the whole game.
I want something with more Depth for the majority of the combat in DNF.

Also, serious sam makes a big mistake with the arena battles: the slow movement.
I know DNF will have much faster movement (George hinted it with the average scientist remark: and which character walks slow but jumps high, eh? http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif no one, so neither does Duke I think http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif).
True arena battles (Doom, Painkiller) have fast movement, so you're going around in the arena, avoiding the projectiles and shooting the enemies.
Serious Sam has slow movement, and that results in not so true arena battles, but more like "defend your position/hold the line by shooting all waves of enemies before they reach you".
Most of the time you're even backtracking to give you more time until the enemies reach you http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

It's definitely something different for the variation when compared to Doom and Painkiller, but I prefer true arena style with fast movement, so if there are arena battles (hopefully like I said there are some, but few and far between, and also some boss battles arena style) you have fast movement speed http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Of course, the damage enemies do to Duke needs to be balanced: faster movement = enemies do more damage http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

That's also why I liked those "serious speed" items in Serious Sam: The Second Encounter.

[Kristian Joensen]

I don't know anything about if there will be re-loading in DNF or not, George do you care to comment ?

[Parkar]

Reloading was confirmed by Geroge a few years ago and I doubt that has changed.

[Cerberus_e]

I also edited my post above with some more info about how I like arena battles, and what Serious Sam's arena battles lack to make it more fun in my opinion http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[SyntaxN]

Parkar said:
Reloading was confirmed by Geroge a few years ago and I doubt that has changed.


Yeah (http://ultr4kr4ss0rh4x0r.l33tw4r3z.de/duke4/thread.php?tid=524)

[Imfamous]

I just hope DNF has roughly the same number of aliens at a time as Duke 3d had.

[Kalki]

^ What I was about to say.

[Cerberus_e]

Gibaholic said:
But im still wondering if there's going to be weapon reloading or not : l



Why would it be bad if there was weapon reloading?
Duke3D also had reloading, the difference is that you don't choose when, and it always happened on the most unfortunate moments http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
at elast when the reload key was introducted you had a CHOICE to reload before your clip is empty and it happens automatically

for weapons like the shrinker there shouldn't be reloading, but there has to be reloading for pistol for example http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Outlaws has the best reloading system to date.
you have to HOLD the reload key, and it reloads BULLET PER BULLET, SHELL PER SHELL.
So not whole clips at once http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
it also didn't reload automatically.
I like that a lot because it adds to the "taking cover" gameplay. It demands more strategy than in your other average 1997 first person shooter http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Gibaholic]

When did I say it was bad? I was just curious. Reloading gives you a chance to kill the pro player in a dukematch. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

[Cerberus_e]

I assumed your :| face meant "bad" http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Gibaholic]

Well : ) is good and >: ( and : ( is bad and : l means nothing.

[Water12356]

30 aliens? I hope they are all in the first room, with 20 more to go. lol

[Magnamuz]

Duke3D was very good, DNF should be more than fantastic, that means old school but with now-a-days tech (graphics, physics, interactivity, etc.)

It should have that details that make a Duke game, those things that set you in a true real world, that you feel the surroundings to be "usable", to move, to grab, to use, to blow. To feel free to use this virtual reality as a true reality, to use your everyday environment as you please , as you always wanted in a game, to assimilate a stage to your advantage and use it like it's meant to be, like it should be.

That's how I want a Duke game to be.

[Anomalous Entity]

- An epic storyline (by epic I mean, Duke Nukem 3D story-epic. It doesn't matter how realistic it is to me, so long as it helps me feel immersed.)

- Trademark characters, enemies, weapons and strippers, such as the ones that DN3D established).

- Gibs (i,e: removable parts of the body). HL2 let me down in that area, since the bodies were always complete.

- AI.

- Lengthy enough, and sufficient extras to keep me occupied for more than a day (which I'm hopefully guaranteed already). http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

And finally, the most vital, important thing:

- Grabbag. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hhg.gif

[Tim. Just Tim.]

If DNF implements half of the ideas I have floating around in my head for it, then I'll be really *really* happy,
and so will everyone else, I bet. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Kronx]

I keep coming up with a laundry list of things I'd like and not like, but hell, I just want it to be fun.

Honestly, I'd love to see Duke take action to the next level. The FPS has been (with a few notable exceptions) mired in mediocrity for a while. After all these years it seems we're still shooting up warehouses and power stations.

When I think of the kind of action that COULD be in a FPS, it makes me giddy. I think of things like the "Falling Ship" level in Dark Forces 2 and the trailer-park sequence in NOLF 2 (It WAS 2 wasn't it?). Both of these made me forget the game and become immersed in the action.

I know every level can't be a huge, thrill-ride like that, but they don't have to be sewers and military bases either.

[Vivi]

You know what I'd like?

I'd like for 3DRealms to quit sitting around on their asses and get some damn work done on this game.

Max Payne 2 is going to be freeware by the time DNF even has any new screenshots available.

[Water12356]

Vivi, they are working on it. Chill my friend. You must retain a lot patience. It will be worth it, trust me.

[Anomalous Entity]

Honestly, I'd love to see Duke take action to the next level. The FPS has been (with a few notable exceptions) mired in mediocrity for a while. After all these years it seems we're still shooting up warehouses and power stations.



Blowing up warehouses and power stations? Hey, that sounds cool. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hhg.gif

Few FPS titles even do that nowadays. Mostly it's just shoot, smash, kill, repeat, die, try again, mainly with a modern-age military feel to it. There's something about Duke Nukem 3D that, despite all these years, still feels crisp when you play it, and I hope that with Duke Nukem Forever, this replayability remains. There's a lot of potential for FPS even now in terms of realism, but it's all still very much a matter of making the game look prettier, rather than making players and the environments have more levels of interaction than just shooting an object off a table and watching it fall around on the floor.

[Cerberus_e]

I know the secret behind Duke3D.
Every enemy has its own sound when they see you, when they roam, and when they die, when they attack, (and some others like pain).
The recent shooter that does this most is Doom 3, but only a few demons do it, it's not as much as Duke3D where EVERY ENEMY does it.

[SyntaxN]

Cerberus_e said:
I know the secret behind Duke3D.
Every enemy has its own sound when they see you, when they roam, and when they die, when they attack, (and some others like pain).
The recent shooter that does this most is Doom 3, but only a few demons do it, it's not as much as Duke3D where EVERY ENEMY does it.


AFAIK every demon in DOOM³ has idle, attack, pain etc.. sounds.

[dark_angel]

I just want from DNF to deliver http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Cerberus_e]

Yes but not to the extend in Duke3d where everything is easily recognizable and unique.
The only ones I can think of are the lost souls, imps, revenants. Those have remarkable and easily recognizeable sounds http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
The other demons probably have one too, but those don't differ much from each other http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

In duke3D they all have one http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Tim. Just Tim.]

3d FPS's may seem to have come a long way since Quake1, but IMO they havnt come that far.

Of course, the graphics have. Graphics these days are amazing, I dont think anyone 10 years ago could have imagined how amazing graphics would become. And I dont think any of us could predict what graphics will look like in another 10 years.

But ***** graphics. I mean, I enjoy beautiful games and eye candy as much as anyone else. In fact, probably more than most people, seeing as how I am constantly spending dough to upgrade my computer in order to play the latest 3d games.

But graphics are holding FPS games back. Way back before 3d cards and the need to make the prettiest game in order for it to make the most sales, games had to actually be fun to play instead of just fun to look at.

Quake1 was pretty simple. You could run, jump, shoot, open doors and press buttons. Sadly, most of todays games are exactly the same thing. The only difference is that instead of 32x32 textures or whatever, games now use 1024x1024, and theres all kinds of fancy lighting and bump mapping and orders of magnitudes more triangles being used. But other than beautiful graphics they are the same damn games we have been playing for 10 years.

One day we will hit a point where games cant really look that much better. Then, in order to sell games, they will need to do different things, like have 100 monsters at a time coming after you instead of just 10. Interactivity and immersiveness.

we are not at that point yet. The main focus of games is still graphics graphics graphics. For the next 5 years or so, we will probably still all be playing Quake1 with prettier textures. Only after graphics hits a plateau will developers start exploring other areas of games.

What I want from DNF is to break out and start doing that now, not 5 years from now.

BTW, I'd say that Half-Life2 is an execption to the above rant. While it is probably one of the prettiest (if not the prettiest) games out there today, it also has many of the interactivity and fun elements that so many games lack. I think thats why it took so long to make. You can make a game as pretty as half life2 in about 1.5 years, but making it fun takes much much longer than that.

[Cerberus_e]

Then you've been playing the wrong games, Tim.
And I don't see how Half-Life 2 is more of an exception to your "all shooters are like Quake" statement as most other first person shooters from the past 2 years. Try to tell me how Far Cry is like the standard Quake shooter? or F.E.A.R.?
Both games are as much as an exception to your statement as Half-Life 2.
Heck, even more simple (gameplay-wise) games like Doom 3 and Quake 4 are a lot more complicated than Quake.
I'm only in the first few levels from quake 4 and I've already done NPC interactions, vehicle sequences, and other things that are not in Quake.
As for how today it's all about graphics. First I disagree, and second, the situation in that regard didn't change compared to 10-15 years ago.
Take a look at the difference between Wolfenstein 3D and Doom.

[ZuljinRaynor]

Cerberus_e said:
Take a look at the difference between Wolfenstein 3D and Doom.


Doom has a newer engine, different story, maps, graphics, weapons, etc.; but same gameplay.

But I still love 'em.

[Cerberus_e]

Yes, and there are still games that fit Tim's description: painkiller, serious sam 2.
But I don't see why they shouldn't be made. You know, people that like Quake gameplay also want graphics just like people that want complex gameplay!
I will never understand why people are freaking out thinking it's all about graphics, but in the meantime don't play any first person shooters because they're pre-judging the game.
There are people who don't even want to try out F.E.A.R. because it has good graphics, and they have preconceptions saying the game is bland because of that (just like Tim thinks: graphics limit gameplay). Well they don't know what they're missing, I've never had such complex and intense combat because of the good AI.
I don't see how graphics limit gameplay. Nothing stops developers from including good gameplay. And graphics add to the atmosphere which is at least as important (if not more) than gameplay.

[roryok]

Eztli Nahua said:
Oh, and the explosions have to look real. Like they blew up some guys they hired to see what someone exploding looks like.



Mental note: Don't go for a job at 3dr!