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View Full Version : How I Would Make DNF "FUN"


jagzzz
01-05-2006, 05:30 PM
Keys to a Successful DNF:

1. Less focus on graphics, more focus on 'exploiting human emotions', i.e., satisfication via strategy.

- Satisfaction occurs when things occur in the game that elicit a 'wow that feels f*cking cool' response. Things like pipe bombs, playing with the pool table, laser trip, etc, are great examples.

- Strategy is aided with good level design. I can still remember being in the 'gutters' waiting for ppl to come by so I could roast them.

- Tools, such as different guns, all aid in our strategy and thus our satisfication levels. There has to be *very* clever ways to improve on this for DNF. Simple things such as human control over designing a multitude of traps/increasingly complex systems in order to hunt or kill the enemy. This could begin with simple examples such as moving boxes and/or props to create danger, or fool the enemy. Good example (which required more work) was holoduke. In DNF, I'd expect HoloDuke to take a more 'realistic' form, actually spooking the player into believing its real.

- Interaction is KEY. Interaction does not necessarily mean jumping on a pool table and watching balls fly. It means Interaction with a PURPOSE. Throw a stripper a few coins you find on the ground and she tells you that she just saw your 'deathmatch' buddy run down the room a few seconds ago. Kick her and she starts screaming and bouncers come to kick your ass. Drink a beer instead of water and all of a sudden you're wobbling around or dizzy for a bit. Traverse a city looking for your kill with access to things such as security cameras, binoculars, night vision, much more. Hit a shopping mall and change your clothes so you look like a civilian (disguise). Bribe people to either work for you or against you by keeping a lookout. Bribes can take the form of collectiing money, or threat by force even. Heck, enlist a stripper to be your wingwomen strictly for viewing pleasure http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif That'd be funny having a stripper run around after me cuz I gave her tonnes of cash. Duke3D in different vehicles has also been covered. Try different ways of attaining vehicles, not just finding it on the road and jacking it. Make it a little more interesting by having Duke3D actually take a few moments to hotwire the car before he can take it. Who really jumps into any vehicle out of nowhere and runs off with it? Physics is great. Have a library scene with thousands of books everywhere flying around with physics in the middle of a duke match. Take it one step further and actually have books that may contain information for duke to actually flip through and read. "My Pet Goat". lol. Have an alter ego for duke for a certain level perhaps. Make a level scary or a different theme, or just try different themes altogether. I enjoy the idea of being able to create your own traps or ways of killing the enemy, based on the tools in your arsenal. Not just shoot and kill, but also creativity and some brains involved. Using physics to mount a sledgehammer against a door and setting up a tripwire. Triggers that set off guns that have been placed conspicously by the gamer. Central rooms that may contain access to lighting for an entire building, thus leaving the enemy in pitch blackness while you watch them on a night vision security camera or something. If they don't have a flash light, they get screwed http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif Those kind of mind games are great. Sending sounds to certain rooms or being able to lock a person into a room while you watch from the outside. Two way or one way mirrors haha. Forcing them to jump out the window and stuff like that. I could go on and on......

Cerberus_e
01-05-2006, 05:38 PM
Why exactly is less focus on graphics needed for that? http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

DudeMiester
01-06-2006, 12:26 AM
Oddball humor and comedic surprise with a touch of exagerrated emotion. Oh, and a level that contains Jerry Seinfield's apartment.

colmtourque
01-06-2006, 09:11 AM
The two thing I've always asked for in a game 1) realistic boundries to the level (I just really get bugged by chain link fences) and 2) If I can realisticly get to it in real life I should be able to get to in a game, if not by jumping then by climbing.

Addicted Gamer
01-06-2006, 09:36 AM
you can damage all the buildings.. (physical texturing)

like that ww2 strategy had (can't remember name anymore).. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

pec
01-06-2006, 11:35 AM
Strippers! http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Nessus
01-06-2006, 12:54 PM
Lapdances Akimbo!

Tim. Just Tim.
01-06-2006, 04:11 PM
[u]Fun = tons and tons little tiny details</u>

Wouldnt it be great if 3dr implemented solutions to all the little tiny complaints youve always had about FPS games?

For eg,

why are some lights breakable and some not? They should all be breakable.

Ditto for glass. And everything else for that matter should be breakable.

My opponent is hiding behind a wooden crate/door/wall and Im shooting the crate/door/wall with a high-powered rifle. Why is my opponent not dead?

How come blood stains and explosion marks and bullet holes and shell casings dissappear after a few minutes? They should definetly *definetly* stay forever. Todays computers are rediculously powerful. If your game engine cant afford keep track of a few hundred thousand bullet holes, then you must have wasted waaaay to many resources somewhere else in the engine. Bullet holes and other such things are what makes it seem like the player is interacting with the level. They should take priority over whatever else you are doing. Use 512 textures instead of 1024 if you have to, or use 40000 polys per model instead of 80000 if you have to, but dont drop what is important!

why do all shotguns always use generic small game shot for ammo? You should be able to find everything from birdshot to slugs.

How come you can jump into a pool of water and when you come out, youre not dripping wet?

Why do enemies never ever run out of ammo, but when you kill them, you only get 10 bullets?

How come every single pigcop/ octabran / battle lord looks exactly the same? Same tired old "oh, theyre all clones" excuse?

I like explosions as much as everyone else, but can you please think of something *else* that blows up instead of barrels? Every single FPS game since DoomI has had the exploding barrel cliche.



Details details details!!

mysteryperfecta
01-06-2006, 04:25 PM
jagzzz said:
1. Less focus on graphics, more focus on 'exploiting human emotions', i.e., satisfication via strategy.



I'd like less focus on graphics, more focus on creating a dymamic, living/breathing world. Unreal 3-powered UT2007 graphics? Absolutely stunning. UT2007 environments? Most likely completely static and lifeless. Yes, its a multiplayer game, but I'd prefer a lower-res, lower-poly gameworld that is bustling with activity for DNF.


It means Interaction with a PURPOSE.



I agree. I want interaction with purpose and consequences.


Details details details!!



I like a lot of your points, Tim.

Addicted Gamer
01-06-2006, 06:31 PM
Tim. Just Tim. said:
computers are rediculously powerful.



i don't accept you. nowdays pc technology is based on transistors - what's lame by today, i think.

let's take a example of your described "forever staying" bullet holes: if game is running on Unreal 3 or extremely modified Unreal 2 engine, and game has dynamical bullet holes - other words: 3D Bullet Holes! and you shoot whole wall full of them.. then it needs extremely much of CPU! (no, not any videocard or memory but CPU)
if you are running throught lightmap room (full of bump map light effects), which has much of bullet holes, then i'm afraid so, but usual AMD FX series or Intel's P4 Extreme Edition can't handle it smoothly.

and why dynamical bullet holes? because usual bullet hole texturings (2D) are lame now - now that's what i call ridiculous. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Denz
01-06-2006, 06:38 PM
I think to make a game fun, it has to be a minimal logic. Like when the player sees something, he will try to do something with this thing, and he should be able to do something with it.


And when the player fire on something, it has to react. Like you fire on a pot of flower, and it brakes in pieces. In COD2 it don't.

Or when your on a tram or something, make it so there are things to watch and see. Because the one in vivisector demo sucked ass too much, it was boring.

And to make a game fun, it should NEVER get any boring part, like the one said for vivisector.

big fat lazy
01-06-2006, 07:33 PM
Lots of focus on everything, including graphics.

Kalki
01-06-2006, 09:22 PM
I'd use interactivity; destructibility; explosions; a real, living, breathing world; and Duke's sense of humour.

DudeMiester
01-06-2006, 10:11 PM
Lots of cameos of internet jokes, especially stuff from YTMND and of course Ted.

Geo-King
01-06-2006, 10:53 PM
As long as I can swing or throw things I find on the ground at enemies, ill be happy.

Its easy to go crazy with features that can slow down performance. However I don't think that will be much of a problem with 64-Bit Dual core CPUs (http://www.canadacomputers.com/index.php?do=ShowProduct&cmd=pd&pid=007270&cid=CPU.611) and Quad SLI GPUs (http://www.pcper.com/article.php?aid=195). I hope high end HMDs (http://www.cybermindnl.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypage&product_id=50&category_id=ced1bd070c3193f0349579a021e83da7&option=com_phpshop&Itemid=1) get cheaper.

I feel so obsolete... http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mryuck.gif

Gideon
01-06-2006, 11:33 PM
I'd make sure that anything and everything I could shoot in the game would react to being shot, and react to being shot the hell out of, and react to being blown the hell up.

If I shoot a generator and make a few holes in it, I want it to spring a leak, and maybe shatter the housing, possibly knock pieces of it off and into the floor. Then shoot that piece down the hall a ways. I want to shoot the wall and bust water pipes inside it. I want to shoot locks out of doors, bust fish tanks, I want to shoot pig cops into a pile on the floor.

I also want the game to litterally scare the crap out of me in places.

Geo-King
01-07-2006, 12:08 AM
Now that I think about it, audio in games has been neglected. Not only would 5.1 surround sound be good but 3D Sound for when you have head phones on.

For those of you that don't care about game audio you should check out the power of 3D Sound and think about the possibilities in game play. I challenge you to put on some head phones and listen to this (http://www.holophonic.ch/archivio/testaudio/Cereni%20-%20Holophonic.mp3).



--
Here is mirror #2 (http://rapidshare.de/files/10362206/Cereni_-_Holophonic.mp3.html) if you need it.

shiranui
01-07-2006, 02:28 AM
jagzzz said:
Keys to a Successful DNF:




Release it?

roryok
01-07-2006, 05:31 AM
Geo-King said:
As long as I can swing or throw things I find on the ground at enemies, ill be happy.




Hear hear. That would rock.