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View Full Version : Human Reaction Time, what makes a pro, long rant..


Higher Game
01-08-2006, 05:04 AM
From playing various twitch based games online with players of similar ping, I'm about ready to say that reflex is borderline universal for humans. Twitching in .5 seconds instead of .6 means lots of wins in, say, Counterstrike and other hitscan weapon games, but it doesn't matter as much in Quake 3 arena, where many of the best weapons aren't hitscan.

Instead, the key element that separates the l33t g33kz from the average player is strategy. This, ultimately, is why games are regarded as a waste of time. Most strategy is created when one becomes accustomed to a certain map, position, etc. This is learned by playing a lot, memorizing rote techniques, and so on. It becomes an instinct (lizard brain) instead of abstract though (human), and this ultimately turns off twitch games to the high-brow crowd.

The best games combine the use of memorized strategies with natural abilities. Chess is the best example. The opening lasts a minute or two, and the rest of the game lasts for hours! First the generic strategy comes, then the really good part.

For many games, this just doesn't work out. Once the strategies are worked out, the winner is the guy who reacts 5% faster, which results in 50% more frags. This isn't pushing human abilities and accomplishments. It's just lame, to put it simply. 5% faster reaction time in reality just doesn't amount to much at all, even to marines. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

The best games reward players with an "x factor" that one can't really point at exactly, but grasp about. I'm talking about the metagame. Someone might not have the fastest twitch or the most strategies memorized, but something he has gives him an edge over the opponent. Maybe it's a tendency to retreat when he's down to 5 health instead of accepting a frag and moving on (or foolishly hoping for a streak of luck). Maybe it's timing a rocket perfectly, knowing exactly when the opponent will foolishly run after that power-up. It's just a combination of these holistic elements that make up an elite gamer.

Interestingly, the reptilian twitch games are very popular, and very few games dare to reward the intuitive player. I believe DNF should move away from the twitch style and instead be unique. DN3d had many unusual weapons, a jetpack, and all kinds of cool things that a clever player could exploit. I hope this tradition, if that's the appropriate word, will continue with the Duke.

Has anyone here felt jaded about the state of multiplayer FPS gaming? I really had a lot of hope for Battlefield 2, but it's mostly full of n00bs who can't understand teamwork and instead regress to the tired old twitch. The overpowered helicopters doesn't help much either. I don't think this problem will be fixed because too many people seem to enjoy the reflex instead of the metagame. If the game were truly balanced, it was force people to truly THINK. It's just not going to happen...

Denz
01-08-2006, 05:47 AM
To make a teamwork work, you need to know each other of your team. I play on how i feel about the situations in enemy territory, when at some points it needs support. And sometimes, teamwork work well on Enemy territory. Even when you don't know the medic that saved you or the covert ops of your team.


And pure strategy is, well, into RTSes. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Like in AOEII, you have to make up strategy without knowing the map. You have to discover it, and make up your strategy.

Drazula
01-08-2006, 08:10 AM
Funny you should mention this as I am tinkering on something that just might be what you are looking for (sorry still a secret!).

I agree with most of what you said. However, I believe even deathmatch can be more of a "twitch" game when "weapons of strategy" are available. These would include tripmines and proxy mines. Items such as jetpacks, teleporters and "slo mo" also add to the strategy.

But you hit on something ingenious, and may not know it. (I know it because it is what I am tinkering with http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif ). The answer is chess. What if, in say, capture the flag, a team had 2 minutes to set "their side" of the map, using physics items and the placement of stationary weapons. This would be comparable to a chess opening where pieces are placed strategically for the heavily tactical middle-game.

Now if only that could be done without having a boring "setup time". (Not gonna tell ya... sorry!)

Mblackwell
01-08-2006, 11:33 AM
This is why I think ET:QW will be one hell of a game (and why I had way more fun playing TFC and DoD than CounterStrike).

Nessus
01-08-2006, 11:35 AM
Lets not forget intelligence, it's a huge factor in being able to win in online games, hell intellignece and reaction time may even be related.

(Edit) Happy Birthday Draz!

Komb.at
01-08-2006, 12:03 PM
Some of the best Quake player are ONLY good because they memorize the places and respawn time of pickups and weapons. I hate this kind of style (not the players fault, but the games), as it has nothing to do with skill. Given a map noone knows and random respawn locations/times many of those guys can't play for shit...


my rant http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Needle
01-08-2006, 12:17 PM
Komb.at said:
Some of the best Quake player are ONLY good because they memorize the places and respawn time of pickups and weapons. I hate this kind of style (not the players fault, but the games), as it has nothing to do with skill. Given a map noone knows and random respawn locations/times many of those guys can't play for shit...



Some might argue that memorizing the map is part or even the whole point of mastering the game. But I agree with you. We need a shooter that randomizes complex and interessting maps on the fly. I hate how most FPS matches seem to run on autopilot.

Wamplet
01-08-2006, 12:22 PM
Drazula said:

But you hit on something ingenious, and may not know it. (I know it because it is what I am tinkering with http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif ). The answer is chess. What if, in say, capture the flag, a team had 2 minutes to set "their side" of the map, using physics items and the placement of stationary weapons. This would be comparable to a chess opening where pieces are placed strategically for the heavily tactical middle-game.



I think that is why I really love games like the Tribes series.

Ras
01-08-2006, 02:19 PM
What if, in say, capture the flag, a team had 2 minutes to set "their side" of the map, using physics items and the placement of stationary weapons. This would be comparable to a chess opening where pieces are placed strategically for the heavily tactical middle-game.



That sounds like Wheel of Time multiplayer.

Jokke_r
01-08-2006, 02:24 PM
Drazula said:
What if, in say, capture the flag, a team had 2 minutes to set "their side" of the map, using physics items and the placement of stationary weapons. This would be comparable to a chess opening where pieces are placed strategically for the heavily tactical middle-game.



There is a mod like this for HL2 already, a multiplayer one. Can't trmember the name, but it allows people to use physical objects to build a fortress or structure to protect the flag before the round starts.

It fails somewhat cos of the fact that everyone thinks they know the best way of building something and ends up everyone building what they want and not planning something properly.

EDIT: found it.

http://www.sourcefortsmod.com/index.php?p=site_about

Denz
01-08-2006, 02:27 PM
In ET, if the Eginerer do what he has to do, if the medic do what he has to do, and if each class does what they have to do, then you got your team play. People is kind of forced to team play, because the objectives are clear and simple. And if these people are a bit smart, then they will do what there class does the best at the proper time.

Thriller
01-08-2006, 07:38 PM
When youre playing Q3 Arena, strategy is vital. You have to get into your oponents brain; see what they see, to predict what they will do. The more you know, the better. Like:

"Ok, I know he is tired and hungry, and pissed of since that last lucky kill. So this time if I run this way, and shot that way, he will run head first into my rocket"

Or

"Ok, I know he is Drazula, so I might as well stand here laughing becuase he will keep backing into me since he doesnt know what the f*ck he is supposed to do".

Drazula
01-08-2006, 07:47 PM
http://forums.3drealms.com/images/ted.jpg