Quade SLI?

[Damien_Azreal]

Dell XPS Renegade... (http://www.gameinformer.com/News/Story/200603/N06.0302.1626.56656.htm)

It's actualy a story about UT2K4, but it does mention DELL's new XPS system.
That runs four (FOUR) GeForce 7800 GTX 512MB in SLI mode.
The system is supposed to launch this spring. But I was just curious as to what you guys think of this kindof setup?

If one 7800 GTX could cost around 700 and up, buying four?! http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif Holy shit, my new PC I'm plannign on building was going to have a 7800 GTX 512MB, but I may actualy have to bite the bullet and got a dual SLI mode just to keep up. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[Duoae]

It'd be better (and probably cheaper) to use two dual-GPU 7900 cards... i think they're supposed to debut at Cebit, so i would think a late autumn release could be on the cards http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[EDIT]Although you could just use one dual-GPU 7900 cards http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif not in SLI http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Jokke_r]

it does use 2 dual-gpu 7900's

[Duoae]

Jokke_r said:
it does use 2 dual-gpu 7900's



Ah, thanks for pointing that out. From the information on that site (even on the main dell site) it wasn't obvious.

Dual 1 GB 7800 SLI graphics cards should be 7900 since the die shrink has taken place and it's taped out at 90 nm. I kinda assumed it was an actual quad-SLI setup since there have been demo one's made before. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Jokke_r]

actually one card like that has 2 boards on top of eachother, going into one PCI-E slot, So when you have 2 of those cards it looks like it's 4

[FireFly]

Actually they don't use 7900s (yet - first demo will be at Cebit).

In the case of the Dell demonstration launched at CES, the PCBs for two GeForce 7800 GTX 512MB GPUs were grafted onto one board, requiring one x16 PCI Express graphics slot. You must then combine this card with a second board to enable Quad SLI.

http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/nvidia_quad_sli/

Note that the chips don't share memory, which is the drawback of all multi GPU setups. This means that 2 GB of video memory is required for Quad SLI!

Additionally, Quad SLI can't work with four separate boards.

[Damien_Azreal]

FireFly said:
Actually they don't use 7900s (yet - first demo will be at Cebit).

In the case of the Dell demonstration launched at CES, the PCBs for two GeForce 7800 GTX 512MB GPUs were grafted onto one board, requiring one x16 PCI Express graphics slot. You must then combine this card with a second board to enable Quad SLI.

http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/nvidia_quad_sli/

Note that the chips don't share memory, which is the drawback of all multi GPU setups. This means that 2 GB of video memory is required for Quad SLI!

Additionally, Quad SLI can't work with four separate boards.



Just getting ready to point that out. Did anyone look at the concept image for the new XPS laptop? Damn.

I may not get a new desktop... I may get me my first laptop. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[FireFly]

I would wait till the the DirectX 10 cards come along.

[Kristian Joensen]

When will that be ? Any idea about that ?

[avatar_58]

I barely justified spending the amount of money I did on my 6800GT......never mind more than one. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/redface.gif

[Damien_Azreal]

avatar_58 said:
I barely justified spending the amount of money I did on my 6800GT......never mind more than one. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/redface.gif



No shit. I'm probably gonna stick with a 7800 GTX when I start on my new PC.

[Steve]

My GF 6800 ultra sounds shitty now. Computers are a very expensive hobby http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/redface.gif

But I can buy another to get use of the SLI... but will that do any good?

[Damien_Azreal]

Steve said:
My GF 6800 ultra sounds shitty now. Computers are a very expensive hobby http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/redface.gif

But I can buy another to get use of the SLI... but will that do any good?



Yep, it would be pretty damn good. And just because there's a better solution out there doesn't mean you should just change up right away.

People still run 9800 Pros and get great performance, even with the x1900s out. I'm building a new system so I can give the one I'm currently using to Bon. Her PC runs a GeForce FX 5600 Ultra. She really needs the upgrade.

PC gaming is an extremely expensive hobby. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif But I think it is justified.

[Mountain Man]

Four top of the line graphics cards running in parallel is just insane.

[Damien_Azreal]

just a bit. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[8IronBob]

Damien_Azreal said:

FireFly said:
Actually they don't use 7900s (yet - first demo will be at Cebit).

In the case of the Dell demonstration launched at CES, the PCBs for two GeForce 7800 GTX 512MB GPUs were grafted onto one board, requiring one x16 PCI Express graphics slot. You must then combine this card with a second board to enable Quad SLI.

http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/nvidia_quad_sli/

Note that the chips don't share memory, which is the drawback of all multi GPU setups. This means that 2 GB of video memory is required for Quad SLI!

Additionally, Quad SLI can't work with four separate boards.



Just getting ready to point that out. Did anyone look at the concept image for the new XPS laptop? Damn.

I may not get a new desktop... I may get me my first laptop. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif



Just add a high-end Dual Core Pentium-M (Centrino Duo) to that, and you'll REALLY fly low with that, and maybe max out at 2 GB DDR RAM. Something like that'll send a message to half the desktops out there.

[Steve]

Mountain Man said:
Four top of the line graphics cards running in parallel is just insane.


And to think... a few years down the line we will be saying: "pfft! Four GF 7800 512mb is shit! My next upgrade will be a octa SLI motherboard all slots using a GF 9000's 1GBs"

[Damien_Azreal]

Steve said:

Mountain Man said:
Four top of the line graphics cards running in parallel is just insane.


And to think... a few years down the line we will be saying: "pfft! Four GF 7800 512mb is shit! My next upgrade will be a octa SLI motherboard all slots using a GF 9000's 1GBs"



Yeah, and when I can finally affourd a PC like that... I'll be to damn senile to play properly. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[Steve]

Damien_Azreal said:

Steve said:

Mountain Man said:
Four top of the line graphics cards running in parallel is just insane.


And to think... a few years down the line we will be saying: "pfft! Four GF 7800 512mb is shit! My next upgrade will be a octa SLI motherboard all slots using a GF 9000's 1GBs"



Yeah, and when I can finally affourd a PC like that... I'll be to damn senile to play properly. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif


Yeah, the tech is just insane. I don't need it but I damn well want it!

[Boinky]

Tech needs to slow down and let the games catch up, but thats how they make there monies http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

[Cerberus_e]

The games are more than catching up, Boinky.
The games currently being made, to be released 3-4 years from now, are all designed to run on the hardware of within 3-4 years, not on current hardware.
That's how it is at present, compared to in the 1990s were games were made for the previous generation of the point when development STARTS http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[8IronBob]

Just like some of the games that were developed when the XBox were out were actually being developed for the 360, like Prey for one. I happen to like the fact that once new hardware is released, or new games, it gives me a chance to cash in on the previous titles or hardware configurations just to save that money for a good price drop on everything. It's better than rushing the process, that's probably why Apples have always been good. At least with Macs, you hardly have to upgrade them nearly as much as Windows-based PCs. After all, you get what you pay for, and Apple seems to have that stable OS as well, and most games do appear to look as good if not better than an X360. Quad SLI would probably be only replaced by 2x X1600 for a new Mac Mini Plus or Mega iMac. Mac Mini vs. Shuttle PC, hmm...

[FireFly]

Kristian Joensen said:
When will that be ? Any idea about that ?


It's rumoured that they'll be released in fall 2004.

[Damien_Azreal]

2004? http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[FireFly]

Read the 4 as a 6.

[Kristian Joensen]

What features can we expect from them ?

[Kalki]

Damien_Azreal said:

avatar_58 said:
I barely justified spending the amount of money I did on my 6800GT......never mind more than one. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/redface.gif



No shit. I'm probably gonna stick with a 7800 GTX when I start on my new PC.


I don't get the appeal of SLI for any mainstream and even hardcore gamer. Get a 7800 and by the time a game comes out that even begins to tax it, the next generation of cards will be here.

[Duoae]

Kalki said:

Damien_Azreal said:

avatar_58 said:
I barely justified spending the amount of money I did on my 6800GT......never mind more than one. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/redface.gif



No shit. I'm probably gonna stick with a 7800 GTX when I start on my new PC.


I don't get the appeal of SLI for any mainstream and even hardcore gamer. Get a 7800 and by the time a game comes out that even begins to tax it, the next generation of cards will be here.



The same way a drop-top sports vehicle won't fill your driving needs on normal roads anymore than a a saloon with a sunroof....

Virtual penis enlargement. Thinking about it, they should peddle SLI systems through email! http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Kalki]

Hahaha! http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Mountain Man]

Boinky said:
Tech needs to slow down and let the games catch up, but thats how they make there monies http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif


I agree. I'd love to see a tech freeze for a few years to allow PC developers the chance to maximize current hardware, but I rather doubt companies like AMD and nVidia would agree to that.

[Damien_Azreal]

Kalki said:

Damien_Azreal said:

avatar_58 said:
I barely justified spending the amount of money I did on my 6800GT......never mind more than one. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/redface.gif



No shit. I'm probably gonna stick with a 7800 GTX when I start on my new PC.


I don't get the appeal of SLI for any mainstream and even hardcore gamer. Get a 7800 and by the time a game comes out that even begins to tax it, the next generation of cards will be here.



Yep.

Plus the fact that SLI isn't really being used to it's full potential yet. Running two cards side by side sounds great, but the benchmarks don't show the huge increase in performance people were expecting. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

I'll stick with one card thank you, otherwise... I would be running two 6800s or something right now. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Duoae]

Damien_Azreal said:
Plus the fact that SLI isn't really being used to it's full potential yet. Running two cards side by side sounds great, but the benchmarks don't show the huge increase in NVidia's wallet size people were expecting. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

I'll stick with one card thank you, otherwise... I would be running two 6800s or something right now. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif



Fixed http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Damien_Azreal]

http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[8IronBob]

Alienware comes to mind with SLI-based desktops, since they've been doing that for a few years now, or dual cards at least, if not true SLI. It's nice that Dell is finally doing something to get back at that one. However, for a DIY, "Build Your Own" PC, that's where SLI will REALLY pay off, especially if you have an AMD 64 X2 chip, that'll come in handy, one card for each core of the chip. Good way to look at it.

[FireFly]

Kalki said:
I don't get the appeal of SLI for any mainstream and even hardcore gamer. Get a 7800 and by the time a game comes out that even begins to tax it, the next generation of cards will be here.


What about those running widescreen widescreen monitors with a native resolution of 1920*1200, who like a bit of AA with their games?

[Kalki]

Like Damien_A said, the benchmarks (http://www.tomshardware.com/2005/12/02/vga_charts_viii/page20.html) show that SLIs don't offer the performance people expect.

[Mountain Man]

That's very interesting. I would have expected a dramatic increase in performance across the board, but some of those benchmarks actually show a performance decrease in some cases. I wonder if the games that show the biggest gains (Quake 4, Black & White 2, and FEAR) were specifically tweaked for SLI as their performance increase is substantial.

[Damien_Azreal]

Yeah, SLI mostly seems to be a gimmick that people are just buying into because they believe that two top end cards will perform better than one.

And the only game I've played that I know was really optimized for SLI was CoD2. And even it doesn't tak efull advantage.

I'd say it's still to early in SLIs birth to go for a 4 card setup, hell it's to early for even a 2 card setup IMO. I'm sticking with 1 card until they really get it fine tuned.

MM, I guessing FEAR is showing good scores in SLI because it is a very demanding game. And the more GPU power you can throw at the better. But even a game as taxing on your system as FEAR in it's highest settings can be run on a single 7800 card.

The demand just isn't there, and probably won't be for a while. Tech is just getting way to ahead of itself.

[FireFly]

Kalki said:
Like Damien_A said, the benchmarks (http://www.tomshardware.com/2005/12/02/vga_charts_viii/page20.html) show that SLIs don't offer the performance people expect.


Those results are anomalous - in half of the tests two GTXs in SLI are slower than a single card. Also, F.E.A.R needs to be run at a higher resolution than 1024*768 for SLI to shine.

Nevertheless in Black and White 2 we see a 70% boost and in Quake 4 we see a 54% boost. In the former case SLI means the difference playable and unplayable framerates.

Lets look at some more comprehensive benchmarks:

http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/ati_radeon_x1900_crossfire_performance/page9.asp

In Call of Duty 2 two cards are 70% faster than one, and again the single GTX simply can't deliver playable framerates at 1600*1200 w/ 4xAA. Again with F.E.A.R where the gap rises to 81%.

Lets switch benchmarks for another example:

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/radeon-x1900xt-crossfire_14.html

In Age of Empires 3 (where Tom's Hardware places the single card above the SLI setup) the single GTX drops to 22 FPS but the two cards in SLI always run at 33 FPS or above. Overall there's 60% performance difference.

These tests were only run at 1600*1200 - 1900*1200 is a whole lot more demanding, and various games in the benchmarks teeter on the edge of playability even at 1600*1200. So surely you can see some of the benefits of having an SLI system?

Edit:


Mountain Man said:
That's very interesting. I would have expected a dramatic increase in performance across the board, but some of those benchmarks actually show a performance decrease in some cases.


And that isn't consistent with the other benchmarks. At high resolutions you do get dramatic gains across the board, as you can see the benchmarks I've linked to.

[Destroyer]

4 7800's seem like a bit of a waste really. Id rather wait for the next generation of Geforce.

[Kalki]

FireFly said:
These tests were only run at 1600*1200 - 1900*1200 is a whole lot more demanding, and various games in the benchmarks teeter on the edge of playability even at 1600*1200. So surely you can see some of the benefits of having an SLI system?


Higher resolutions do seem to show the difference. We must ban the ability to go that high! \o/ http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Btw, some old Quad Benchmarks (http://www.tomshardware.com/2005/12/14/sneak_preview_of_the_nvidia_quad_gpu_setup/page5.html) in case it wasn't posted before.