Deathwalk - hit or miss?

[avatar_58]

What did you think of Deathwalking? I have mixed feelings. Why? Well I personally hate having to redo entire sections of levels over and over again (farcry, I'm looking at you) so it was a godsend for me.

However....during bossfights I felt it kind of made things 'too' simple. I honestly died a few times on certain bosses trying different things. If the bosses regenerated some health each time you 'passed into the realm' then it might have been more balanced.

For puzzles deathwalking was also a plus. I didn't have to care about messing up and tried many things because....who cares if I fall off a cliff right? It made the game feel extremely loose.

In fact on a whole I actually spent more time *enjoying* Prey then worrying about dying or "did I save it?" like you do with other shooters or games in general. That alone makes it worth looking into. With COD2 their health regen system started me on the road to wanting more games to be enjoyable rather than giant quicksave/redo fests. In fact I never touched the quicksave button in Prey except when I wanted to quit. Big plus right there.

[d3ad connection]

I liked it, it might some parts a little easy, but at least I didn't bash my keyboard like I do in other FPSs when I die :P

[George Broussard]

In fact on a whole I actually spent more time *enjoying* Prey then worrying about dying or "did I save it?" like you do with other shooters or games in general.
That's the whole point. Nobody likes dying a lot and losing progress. It's the thing that makes you stop playing a game and take a break.

People like to say "prey is short" or that they finish it in one sitting. Something to think about is the fact that it did not frustrate them enough to stop playing, and that maybe doing things like adding DeathWalk, while possibly making the game shorter by removing re-playing areas, made the game more enjoyable overall.

[avatar_58]

Well Prey is the only shooter that I've decided to replay directly after I finished it. ;) So I guess something was done right. You don't feel pressured when you play, you just enjoy it.

If we take another game as an example - constantly quicksaving and reloading is really no different than Prey, except instead you won't start with the same health/spirit energy unless you do well in deathwalking (which gets faster and more difficult as the game goes on)

So its hard to say deathwalking makes the game too easy when you look at it that way. :)

[0marTheZealot]

I don't like it. There's no point in conserving health or playing strategically. Sometimes, it's more beneficial to die rather than living. It removes a lot of the epicness from the game as well; bosses are just another speed bump. You might as well give the player infinite health. Same outcome, none of the bullshit. There's a fine line between too hard (FarCry, that game was just unfair) and too easy (HL2) and just about right (Sin:E). Prey's difficulty is non-existant though, with no penalty for death. On top of that, the monsters aren't even tough. It's pretty much run and gun for much of the game. Get the acid shotgun/alien pistol and just roll.

Horrible is too strong of a word though. I thought it was a pretty stupid feature. Something horrible though would be like corrupting your OS after you install/uninstall.

[m4dmax]

That's the whole point. Nobody likes dying a lot and losing progress. It's the thing that makes you stop playing a game and take a break.

People like to say "prey is short" or that they finish it in one sitting. Something to think about is the fact that it did not frustrate them enough to stop playing, and that maybe doing things like adding DeathWalk, while possibly making the game shorter by removing re-playing areas, made the game more enjoyable overall.

pretty much said what I was gonna type... Gave the game the perfect flow, it may of decreased the difficulty cause you dont have to start a whole level over but it definitly made things flow together perfectly.

[Travis]

Well Prey is the only shooter that I've decided to replay directly after I finished it. ;)


Yeah, same with me. I find it really hard to finish games usually, I tend to get distracted since a lot of games have nothing to make me keep playing.
But right after I finished it I started playing it a second time.

Whether it was difficult or not didn't really matter to me, the puzzles and stuff were so fun that I didn't notice.
I usually hate puzzles in games since they're just the same frustrating crap but these were good.

[Damien_Azreal]

I love Death Walking.

It didn't remove any challenge for me, I still tried like hell not to die. Whenever my health would get low I would panic, start to run away and hide.

For me, remembering to quick save is probably my worst problem. I get into the game and simply never think of it. This feature has saved me the trouble of that, I can simply play the same way I always do and when I die I can simply continue.

[Denz]

That's the whole point. Nobody likes dying a lot and losing progress. It's the thing that makes you stop playing a game and take a break.




Hey let's say, why not a fast save that don't block the screen for a second, at each ammo spot and devices you activate? It is more interesting than using the Fkeys to me. I would like to have that for harder game with way more enemies.

[naddie]

Maybe the Cherokee mode won't have the Deathwalk, or if it does, it would give you LESS life and Spirit when you come back? I would hope that's the case.

I like the game as is now. But then again, I suck at FPS, and I like easy games like this and HL2. :)

The only "hard" game I got into was COD and COD2. Still didn't finish either yet.

[Frogacuda]

That's the whole point. Nobody likes dying a lot and losing progress. It's the thing that makes you stop playing a game and take a break.But it's also the kind of thing that gives players a sense of accomplishment when they get past them, and it's this sense of accomplishment which is one of the big motivators for a lot of players.

You say "no one likes dying a lot", but you could have just as easily said "No one likes the enemies in games". You're not supposed to like them. It's a challenge to be overcome. That's one of the basic principles of game design.

Deathwalking does a lot for the flow of the game (which is well paced in other ways, tool), but it leaves the experience very empty. It should have been an option, or, as was suggested, there should have been some respawning or regeneration of health while you were out or something that might prevent a small child from being able to get through the game on the hardest "difficulty."

[DavoX]

But it's also the kind of thing that gives players a sense of accomplishment when they get past them, and it's this sense of accomplishment which is one of the big motivators for a lot of players.

You say "no one likes dying a lot", but you could have just as easily said "No one likes the enemies in games". You're not supposed to like them. It's a challenge to be overcome. That's one of the basic principles of game design.

Deathwalking does a lot for the flow of the game (which is well paced in other ways, tool), but it leaves the experience very empty. It should have been an option, or, as was suggested, there should have been some respawning or regeneration of health while you were out or something that might prevent a small child from being able to get through the game on the hardest "difficulty."
QFT :)

[0marTheZealot]

You say "no one likes dying a lot", but you could have just as easily said "No one likes the enemies in games". You're not supposed to like them. It's a challenge to be overcome. That's one of the basic principles of game design.



hahaha, that comment reminded me of those super Sin-tek soldiers in Sin:E. I absolutely hated them!

[JigenD]

It made it easier, and shorter in actual play time, but it made it less frusterating too. I think the overall effect is, it is better.

[9Nails]

But it's also the kind of thing that gives players a sense of accomplishment when they get past them, and it's this sense of accomplishment which is one of the big motivators for a lot of players....


What you call accomplishment, I would call frustration. I don't know how many games where I'm the hapless hero who is single-handedly saving the world. And I'm in a position where I have 8 weapons with no ammo and a crowbar against an Army. This isn't fair! Usually I scream WTF, and beg for a NPC or a cheat code to get past those parts. I think to myself that this design is "stupid", "nuts", "ludicris", and just plain "dumb." And I wonder if the game was even tested with an audience before dumping it on players.

I won't dump any spoilers out here, but thankfully Prey was story driven, and not obstacle driven. Completing that story was all the accomplishment that I needed. There is a goal or reward that the Tommy is pursuing, and for me that was enough to enjoy the game. My achievements didn't need to fall precisely in a boss battle or overcoming a tricky section of obstacles. I became in-tune with the goals that Tommy was trying to reach, and I felt his emotions when the game moved along.

This was quite a good experience for me.

[avatar_58]

You know whats funny? Some of the Ultima games didn't have dying....you instead were transported to Lord British as a penalty. Planescape Torment had immortality as well. Its interesting how no one yelled at either considering dying is also a part of RPGs as it is FPS.

When I play games I do so for fun and enjoyment. I really could care less if dying/saving/loading is a part of it.....in fact it hurts many games that use save points if you ask me. In many sierra adventure games you could die and it was mostly for fun, later adventure cut it out all together and no one claimed bloody murder.

Dying doesn't make a game good. Does anyone really think back fondly of older games that didn't allow saving and say "Why can't new games be as frustrating?" I know I sure as hell don't.

[Parkar]

The 3D GTA games also don't have dying. You do lose progress in the current mission when you get busted or wasted though.

[0marTheZealot]

Both of those games have punishments for dying. Prey has none. In fact it rewards you to die.

[Needle]

Well, you always can quickload if you die and don't like the deathwalk.

But yeah, I kinda agree. With deathwalk being around, it just feels too easy. Probably a psychel... psychi... psy...

Probably a head thing.

What I would've liked is the deathwalk turning into a dangerous place at some point - including the possibility to die permanently. Kinda turning the save heaven into a threatening place. Would've been a nice twist.

[Aegeri]

But it's also the kind of thing that gives players a sense of accomplishment when they get past them, and it's this sense of accomplishment which is one of the big motivators for a lot of players.

You say "no one likes dying a lot", but you could have just as easily said "No one likes the enemies in games". You're not supposed to like them. It's a challenge to be overcome. That's one of the basic principles of game design.

Deathwalking does a lot for the flow of the game (which is well paced in other ways, tool), but it leaves the experience very empty. It should have been an option, or, as was suggested, there should have been some respawning or regeneration of health while you were out or something that might prevent a small child from being able to get through the game on the hardest "difficulty."

I would like to third [or whatever] this opinion. It's essentially what I think stated very clearly.

[Mountain Man]

The 3D GTA games also don't have dying. You do lose progress in the current mission when you get busted or wasted though.
One of the reasons I never finished Vice City or San Andreas. I positively loathed having to restart a mission from the very beginning--including tracking down the "quest" giver--every time I died or failed. Prey sounds like it might be right up my alley.

[Zegraphoob]

"Okay but made the game a little too easy" gets my vote. I liked deathwalking in Prey, but I don't want it to leak over to other games. It removed some of the atmosphere for me because I don't have to worry too much about doing wrong things, and it also made the game easier and shorter. It fits well in the storyline, that's why I like it in Prey after all.

[naddie]

Hmm...you know, I just experienced the "Deathwalk makes it too easy". When I battled my first boss, I didn't feel too intimidated.

My strategy was just unload all of my ammo on him. Then I found an area where I can hide where there were many pipes. Good cover to just go nuts with SpiritWalk and shot the hell outta the boss with arrows. when I run out, I just kill myself, come back, and spirit walk and shoot him with arrows. Every once in a while, I try killing him with the rifle, since it recharges on it's own.

It was after I killed him I was exploring the room, and I found places to hide, ammo, and health. DOH!

[Drazula]

Honestly, so far, when I've died, I simply reloaded. I haven't used Deathwalk. I think it is a nice feature if you get to a difficult part or are inexperienced.

[Zegraphoob]

naddie,

2 remarks:

- I didn't know the rifle recharges. Merci for the hint.
- Didn't you cut off his arm with the forcefield?

Zegraphoob

[George Broussard]

Honestly, so far, when I've died, I simply reloaded. I haven't used Deathwalk. I think it is a nice feature if you get to a difficult part or are inexperienced.
Let go, your conscious self....and act on instinct!

[Deep Six]

I think "Deathwalk" (I'm using the term loosely here) is one of the best ideas in videogames. It makes the gameplay flow constantly so you never have to stop playing and I really like that concept. The only penalty is that you have to basically sit in an ethereal "time-out zone", which is actually fun.

The only games I can think of that use proper "Deathwalk" are Prey and Soul Reaver; two games which I think have some of the best gameplay on the f-ing planet, and two games which I have a really hard time putting down because I can just keep playing them without any interuption.

Wise choice on Deathwalk, 3D Realms and Human Head!

[Frogacuda]

What you call accomplishment, I would call frustration. No you wouldn't, they're two completely different, and equally real effects of challenge. I acknowledged the frustration factor. Accomplishment is something different, and positive that comes from challenge.I don't know how many games where I'm the hapless hero who is single-handedly saving the world.Pretty much every sci-fi first person shooter ever made. Just to name a few.

I won't dump any spoilers out here, but thankfully Prey was story driven, and not obstacle driven. Completing that story was all the accomplishment that I needed.
Really? Was it? Do you also feel a sense of accomplishment when you finish a movie? I think you're using the word differently than me. I'm talking about the feeling that you, the player, have accomplished something, not that Tommy, your character, has accomplished something.

I know the game was effective on a lot of other levels, I'm just talking about one way in which it was not.

[Little Conqueror]

Both of those games have punishments for dying. Prey has none. In fact it rewards you to die.

Not really. I got pretty damn sick of that deathwalk after a while, and it felt like a punishment - but still way preferable to replaying areas.

[Denz]

I think "Deathwalk" (I'm using the term loosely here) is one of the best ideas in videogames. It makes the gameplay flow constantly so you never have to stop playing and I really like that concept. The only penalty is that you have to basically sit in an ethereal "time-out zone", which is actually fun.

The only games I can think of that use proper "Deathwalk" are Prey and Soul Reaver; two games which I think have some of the best gameplay on the f-ing planet, and two games which I have a really hard time putting down because I can just keep playing them without any interuption.

Wise choice on Deathwalk, 3D Realms and Human Head!

I'd like to see future game with deatwalk like feature, and see how long these game are. Some finished prey in 12 ours, that's pretty long with such feature and on easy.

[mithras]

Honestly, so far, when I've died, I simply reloaded. I haven't used Deathwalk. I think it is a nice feature if you get to a difficult part or are inexperienced.

That's exactly what I do. The general rule I use - if I die from a a non-puzzle solving incident, I simply reload.

Deathwalk is great for solving puzzles. While travelling on board a space ship, it makes sense the ship will have security or other means to prevent access to areas. Deathwalk allows for this to happen, and the player can still get through in a way that makes sense. Have you ever played a game where there's a securely locked door into a restricted access area with barrels of explosives sitting around? Who would be so stupid as to leave those barrels RIGHT THERE so that shooting them opens up an entrance to that area!!?

Suspension of disbelief only goes so far. If an alien race is smart enough to build a ship that can travel to distant reaches and swipe other races for processing, they should be smart enough to put in some kind of security that should be able to keep anything out of restricted areas. They didn't forsee a deathwalking creature on board their ship, of course, but who would? It makes sense that a special ability could thwart their measures. That's Sci-Fi, baby!

I believe that games are supposed to be frustrating sometimes. I'll play Mahjongg at times, and I always play the layout where it's possible to not win every game (the win-lose ratio is fairly small). It makes winning that much sweeter. Same with other games. I know I'm going to die, but that's what makes the game fun. I'll get so pissed off at it, that I'll drop it for a day or two. Then I'll pick it up and finish it, no prob. I just needed to think about what I needed to do. When I figure it out, it's easy. By the end of the game, I've improved and changed my own strategy in a way that I can more easily beat the creatures. Not changing my strategy means I die more and the game is much harder, but that's the way it should be. Well, IMHO anyway.

[FireFly]

I think the puzzles in Prey add a feeling of accomplishment to the experience.

[Adabiviak]

I liked it for much the same reasons as the original poster - something different, and depending on the situation I found myself in, I'd have to choose between going after the blue critters more or the red. MUCH more immersive gameplay this way - you're not taken 'out' of the game. It's like a 10-second time out during a boxing match after you've been knocked down - better rethink that strategy after the Centurion hands you your ass.

Deep Six, your avatar is awesome.

[Gryph]

I think Deathwalking is a hit. I like the fact that after I die I fight back for most of my health and spirit and boom I'm back in the game. Backtracking was always a frustrating part of FPS games that I just had to put up with.