The DNF game manual!

[Damien from omen]

How big will it be? Do you want it to be big or small?

Hehe i'd prefer a VERY LARGE detailed manual then a piddly small BF2 like one. Like the CnC Red Alert one. 100 pages +!

What is everyone elses opinions?

[ADM]

It is WAY still to early to even know.. the manual is one of the last things done for a game. To be concerned about the size at this stage is pretty trivial.

[infowars]

for all i care, the manual can be just a scrap of paper that says

"ENJOY...ITS DONE"

[StainedCheeks]

It is WAY still to early to even know.. the manual is one of the last things done for a game. To be concerned about the size at this stage is pretty trivial.

how would this guy know its to early and why even say it like that? are you a developer or just a moderator in a different time zone then 3dr base? dont mean to be rude or anything but were in here talking bout what we would like to see in DNF.

to answer the question bout the manuel..i would like a few words on the history of Duke. how he became the ultamate alien ass kicker, mabey even a short comic that tells us of the past games.think that would be cool to see.:cool:

[Sang]

Something similar to HL2's "manual" - Installation help on one side, the default controls on the other. In an FPS it's pretty easy to learn gameplay elements in-game. And more fun, too :)

[Shadowy]

I think a sort of duke monologue would be nice where duke is speaking from his point of view about where it all began (from Duke1) and how he finally returned to kick ass again in DNF. Sort of as a brief history making sure to include the traditional humour of duke.

[ADM]

how would this guy know its to early and why even say it like that? are you a developer or just a moderator in a different time zone then 3dr base? dont mean to be rude or anything but were in here talking bout what we would like to see in DNF.

Uhh because it is too early for 3DR to even think about doing manuals. If you've been around the forums and even followed DNF as much as I have you know that when DNF is close to release that they'll be a media flood (like a couple of months before release). Even that time would be too early to focus on a manual.

Manuals are done towards the end of development.

Yes I know you guys are "in here" talking about DNF and what you would like to see but that's not the basis of the original topic is it? He's asking how big it would be and I answered.

[Damien from omen]

Well... There is one thing i would be really happy with. It only has to be one page and have.

"Its Gone Gold!!!!!!!"

:ted:

and have our friend Teddyboy on it ;)

That could be another idea hehehe.

[Shadowy]

Yes I know you guys are "in here" talking about DNF and what you would like to see but that's not the basis of the original topic is it? He's asking how big it would be and I answered.

Yeah i see what you mean, so now to answer the question directly:

IMO the manual should be a book, we need to hear as much info as possible towards what happened behind the media blackouts. Plus lots of extra content.

No one page manuals please...

[the true duke]

i dont want a thick book like civilization. a good 20 page book containing everything we need to know. and a few enemy pictures and weapons would be nice.

[Wamplet]

How big will it be? Do you want it to be big or small?

Hehe i'd prefer a VERY LARGE detailed manual then a piddly small BF2 like one. Like the CnC Red Alert one. 100 pages +!

What is everyone elses opinions?


I vote for 100+ page manual as well.

[the true duke]

have you seen civilization 3 manual. over 200 pages.

[big fat lazy]

You can't compare instruction books of strategy games to FPS's.

[GodBlitZor]

The book should be just like Duke3D's. Have lots of common objects and explain them. Explain the hud. Explain gameplay mechanics. Explain everything. :)

[Otto von Keisinger]

The book should be just like Duke3D's. Have lots of common objects and explain them. Explain the hud. Explain gameplay mechanics. Explain everything. :)
Why? What need is there? Truth be told, I'm a little bit wary of manuals in FPS's these days. Call it superstition (truth be told, it probably is), but the last game I saw a manual descibing everything in detail was Deus Ex: Invisible War. Not only was it completely unnecessary, but it wound up leaving a bad taste in my mouth about the game (that was only enhanced by attempting to play the unpatched, unmodded game). Needless to say, in recent times, I have come to associate a full manual with a poorer quality of games.

The original Deus Ex included a fake newspaper, which set up the events of the game and provided some backstory. Homeworld included a history/ship guide that did indeed include an actual manual deep within its depths, but much more importantly, fleshed out the entire universe of Homeworld. I'd love to see something like that in the DNF box, but a manual seems pointless.

[Telee]

Hehe i'd prefer a VERY LARGE detailed manual then a piddly small BF2 like one. Like the CnC Red Alert one. 100 pages +!

First Person Shooters don't have to explain much in their instruction booklet. If you had to make a game manual for Duke 3D, how would you explain it all in 100+ pages? That's way too high.

Anyway, I'd say about 30 would do.

[The Dukenator]

for all i care, the manual can be just a scrap of paper that says

"ENJOY...ITS DONE"

With a little note stating, "If you want the bloody manual, please see the DNF manual.PDF that's stored on your DVD somewhere." :tinyted:

[hell-angel]

I don't care, I never read the manual anyway. :)

[Shadowy]

With a little note stating, "If you want the bloody manual, please see the DNF manual.PDF that's stored on your DVD somewhere." :tinyted:

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!! No PDF manuals, when that trend started i lost all hope and interest in reading the manuals. I need something physical that i can read at my leisure.

[Monkey Butler]

Well, I dunno if you make a distinction between "manual" and "book thingy" but I kinda liked it back in the day when there'd be some stupid lame backstory, pictures and weird descriptions of bad guys, descriptions of weapons etc. Sure, none of it is necessary, but it was fun, and it might be cool for a bit of nostalgia.

But I definitely think there needs to be some sort of book thingy (or extra DVD) with all the history of development, brief commentaries by developers - what DNF meant to them, why they personally kept working on the game for 10 years, their favourite badguy/gun/section of the game etc. There's a lot of sure-to-be interesting history there about DNF's prudction cycle, so I think 3DR would be mad not to include something like that.

[the true duke]

nah i dotn want to hear what they think because i wouldnt care what they think.

i dont want the cd-key for the game to be on the back of the manual.

[The Dukenator]

nah i dotn want to hear what they think because i wouldnt care what they think.

i dont want the cd-key for the game to be on the back of the manual.
Where do you want it then? On the back of the jewel case?
The games that I encountered have the CD key on back of the jewel case.
Manual can be easily lost, but losing the cd key is another story...

[Shadowy]

If the CD Key is on the CD/DVD (Postal 2 style) then it is impossible to lose the CD key unless you lose the CD/DVD aswell, although i must say it would help if it said somewhere that the CD key is on the CD/DVD (unlike Postal 2). Technically a viable option.

[hell-angel]

Of course they should say where the CD key is, else people can be searching for hours. ;)

[Shadowy]

Like I was *graaaaaaah!!!* :flame: :brickwall:

[hell-angel]

Like I was *graaaaaaah!!!* :flame: :brickwall:
hehe, I find that funny. :D LOL :p

[Yatta]

Never mind how long it is, it better ****ing be in color if they're going to charge as much for DNF as they are charging for Prey. :o

have you seen civilization 3 manual. over 200 pages.
Same thing with the Alpha Centauri manual. Firaxis games are very complicated and require much explanation. :)

[Jabba the Hutt]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!! No PDF manuals, when that trend started i lost all hope and interest in reading the manuals. I need something physical that i can read at my leisure.
Print it.

[Yatta]

^ You know it would never be the same as having a collated booklet of compact glossy pages, Jabba the Butt. :)

[Micki!]

Never mind how long it is, it better ****ing be in color if they're going to charge as much for DNF as they are charging for Prey. :o


Found this, when i was searhing for something completely else, DNF related... :o

>>Will the instructions be in color?

Probably. We like color manuals. But that's not something to be decided today.


from here:
http://www.gzv2.com/board/viewtopic.php?t=738&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=&sid=f16cfebeabfe099037ed8fab41d656e0

[hell-angel]

Oh yes, that was funny to read back. :)

[Jabba the Hutt]

^ You know it would never be the same as having a collated booklet of compact glossy pages, Jabba the Butt. :)
.. with a centerfold of bombshell?? :D

[Malgon]

Good find there Micki!, even though I've got the feeling I've read that before it still has a decent quantity in regards to information. I'd like to see GB do that again someday soon. ;) :p

[Yatta]

.. with a centerfold of bombshell?? :D
You betcha. :)

[the true duke]

you people get weirder and weirder with your suggestions.

[alexgk]

I know manual isn't the most important thing in a game package, but it helps with any game's presentation. I loved :love: PC GTA:SA manual: big, well-written and funny. But I think the first thing I'll do when I open the DNF box is to install the game, and I'll read the manual during the process,if my pc is good enough that is:( (release dnf for 360 please)

[hell-angel]

you people get weirder and weirder with your suggestions.
Gotta love it. :love: ;)

[Joe Siegler]

No manual. Figure it out on your own.

[The Dukenator]

No manual. Figure it out on your own.
Good idea. Who the hell reads the manual anyway?
Guessing on how to play a game is more challenging than reading the manual first.

A manual would be useful as it'll give us the story, enemies, and what other shit there is.

[Micki!]

I Read the manual... I think Game manuals are an important part when buying a game... Especially printed ones...

[big fat lazy]

Manuals aren't that important for shooters. Especially if it's learn as you go or has a training level.

[Renegade]

For the love of God, no training level!

[Telee]

Sometimes I read the manual, I did for the Duke 3D expansions. Most of the time I just ignore it and go straight for the disk :D

[Evil Angel]

There are training levels as in ALERT: THIS IS A TRAINING LEVEL! WE WILL NOW TEACH YOU TO CROUCH... :doh: and then there are training levels as in a fun, immersive, interactive prelude to the story which subtly, smoothly and seamlessly blend into the 1st level of the game.

As long as it's the latter I'd like to see a "training" level. I never really read the manual but if there has to be one I'd prefer a small PDF version on the disc to a paper one.

[Malgon]

Sometimes I like a manual even if it is a FPS. I like getting stuff for my hard earned cash, rather than a paper sleeve saying how to install the game and a CD paper slip. Then I tend to feel a bit ripped off to say the least. :tinyted:

[Otto von Keisinger]

I tend to feel more ripped off by a manual where they clearly spent no effort to make it useful, but still felt the need put one in.

[the true duke]

ya sometimes a manual makes something sounds to difficult, and then you do it in the game adn your like "that was easy".

[hell-angel]

I tend to feel more ripped off by a manual where they clearly spent no effort to make it useful, but still felt the need put one in.
But on the other hand, buying a game without a manual would be really weird IMO. So better a bad one then no one I guess.

[Malgon]

You better get something for 90 bucks is all I'm saying. :)

[StainedCheeks]

You better get something for 90 bucks is all I'm saying. :)

how bout stipper panties with "save me" printed on them. thats all the instruction we will really need.:D

[Otto von Keisinger]

But on the other hand, buying a game without a manual would be really weird IMO. So better a bad one then no one I guess.
I'd have a quick reference card a la HL2 retail than a goddamn useless manual. If the manual was great, it'd be no problem.

[Commando Nukem]

I'd have a quick reference card a la HL2 retail than a goddamn useless manual. If the manual was great, it'd be no problem.

You know if the noob-guide (manual) is "crap" to you, you can just not read it right? For people who are noobs, they are going to need a noob guide. I wasn't born with the knowledge of FPS games, and im glad Delta Force had a book otherwise I wouldn't have known what the blue blazing hell I was doing way back when.... =\

[DudeMiester]

imho, the manual is an excellent device for providing additional backstory and little elements that were interesting, but couldn't make it into the final in-game storyline. In addition, small hints and riddles can be embedded into it that can give one access to secrets in the game, if you figure out what they mean.

[Otto von Keisinger]

You know if the noob-guide (manual) is "crap" to you, you can just not read it right?
Here's your answer:

imho, the manual is an excellent device for providing additional backstory and little elements that were interesting, but couldn't make it into the final in-game storyline. In addition, small hints and riddles can be embedded into it that can give one access to secrets in the game, if you figure out what they mean.
If a game isn't so complex that even some self-professed veterans could flounder without reading the manual (flight sims, Rome: Total War), then the above is really the only cause to devote 30 pages or more to. Believe me, for most FPS's the necessary information could be covered by two sides of quick-reference card.

[Commando Nukem]

Here's your answer:


If a game isn't so complex that even some self-professed veterans could flounder without reading the manual (flight sims, Rome: Total War), then the above is really the only cause to devote 30 pages or more to. Believe me, for most FPS's the necessary information could be covered by two sides of quick-reference card.

Maybe im just a fan of the extra weight.

[Otto von Keisinger]

I'm a fan of manuals that actually enhance the user's experience.

[Commando Nukem]

I'm a fan of manuals that actually enhance the user's experience.

The Half-Life 2 book was like an uber-inspiration in my life. RLY!

[Otto von Keisinger]

What book? I thought it was just a reference card. Of course, there is the strategy guide and Raising the Bar. Do you mean one of those?

[the true duke]

he was trying to be a smart-ass, tho he needs to work on it better.

[Otto von Keisinger]

I could have told you that! I was wondering which one he was talking about.

[The Dukenator]

Eventually some fool would create a real shitty manual unless someone wants to create one.

[Commando Nukem]

he was trying to be a smart-ass, tho he needs to work on it better.

Work on it eh? Tell my mother that.... Hell tell any of the people I know that. I annoy so many people its not even funny.

Really TTD, you are the one who needs to "worK" on this "it" thing...

Seriously, I love ya brudda nukem! (l) feel the emotion.

and seriously... This thread is pretty pathetic, why do we even need to have adisscussion about the MANUAL? Who cares, its gonna have one, and we all know Otto will think it sucks because it will have the standard nub dribble in it. You know why? Because Games that are good have shitty instruction manuals. Its a proven fact, because I said so.

[Otto von Keisinger]

Its a proven fact, because I said so.
In other news, DNF will be released tomorrow, because I said so. :p

But seriously, I don't mind if the manual contains information to help out the noobs, but I seriously have issues when developers take a great way to expand the background of the game and piss all over it. :brickwall:

[Alexander]

Hmmm... Manual....
I wana shoot something up, don't need a manual to kill!

No really... Somewhere in the old DNF FAQ was some info on how the game will be explained to you while exploring it. Works good in many games so why a manual here?
Besides, with all the fun gimicks and interactivity, do you want to be spoiled by reading, "this object can do this and that... activation here, bla bla bla.."??
for what?? there's a light switch, use it! Found a washing machine?
give it a shot and use the bloody thing! can't? put something inside it, no matter what, just try.

If I get the game, I won't be running blind through it, I wanna SEE and USE everything in my sight, when I'm done, I'll blow it all up :D... no manual for this!

The only info should be at the back of the case saying "This is a game, play it!"

[Foxy]

The manual usually isn't very informative, but I like to read it. They've often got good art, and a nice smell of course. :p The WoW manual is an exception though, that was well worth leafing through. Tbh I think a Duke manual would consist a page saying 'GO FORTH AND KICK ASS'... :D

[Sang]

and a nice smell of course. :p

Oh I agree - When I first bought UT2k4 I spent about 2 hours sniffing the manual.

[Micki!]

Oh I agree - When I first bought UT2k4 I spent about 2 hours sniffing the manual.

My version of UT2004 didn't come with a Manual.. :(
I like the smell of fresh printed manuals as well...:cool:

[Sang]

My version of UT2004 didn't come with a Manual.. :(

I suppose you have the DVD version? Well.. if you want the manual, you'll also have to put up with 6 CD's for the installation.. Those damn sadistic bastards..

[Micki!]

I suppose you have the DVD version? Well.. if you want the manual, you'll also have to put up with 6 CD's for the installation.. Those damn sadistic bastards..

God, that's awful...
Glad it's DVD though... but no way i'm gonna prefer 6 CD's for a Manual... :eek:

[Monkey Butler]

I guess in the end it's like getting the little booklet when you buy a CD. It's not essential, and often is just a bunch of photos and the credits, no info on the album or the lyrics or anything, but it's still prefer to have one than just a single page for the cover art.

[Kalki]

No manual. Figure it out on your own.
Oh, you'd like that wouldn't you? :)

[hell-angel]

God, that's awful...
Glad it's DVD though... but no way i'm gonna prefer 6 CD's for a Manual... :eek:
hehe, I remember the people complaining about the 6 CD's when UT2004 was released. :D On of the reasons I didn't buy it. (The DVD version was more expensive iirc). ;)

[wayskobfssae]

Oh comeon, a training level wouldn't be so bad. Especially if done right. I can just envision the comments Duke would make while the tutorial is running.

"Tutorial: You can't get through this air vent by walking. Crouch down to crawl through.

Duke: Just how dumb do you think I am?"

[hiob]

i just found this little article of a german PC magazine called Gamestar:
http://www.gamestar.de/news/pc/spiele/action/duke_nukem_forever/1463808/duke_nukem_forever.html
they seem to suck every little bit of information about DNF out of the 3DRealms forums, i mean this "news" article only says that there won´t be a game manual in DNF, as proof they quoted Joe´s post. at least that shows you that some gaming journalists still believe in DNF and can´t await it´s arrival. :D

[Sang]

Oh comeon, a training level wouldn't be so bad. Especially if done right. I can just envision the comments Duke would make while the tutorial is running.

"Tutorial: You can't get through this air vent by walking. Crouch down to crawl through.

Duke: Just how dumb do you think I am?"

Yeah maybe you could shoot the speakers to stop all the tutorial blabberish and find it out on your own :)

[Foxy]

"Tutorial: You can't get through this air vent by walking. Crouch down to crawl through.

Duke: Just how dumb do you think I am?"

This would kick all kinds of ass. :D

[Wolle]

i just found this little article of a german PC magazine called Gamestar:
http://www.gamestar.de/news/pc/spiele/action/duke_nukem_forever/1463808/duke_nukem_forever.html
they seem to suck every little bit of information about DNF out of the 3DRealms forums, i mean this "news" article only says that there won´t be a game manual in DNF, as proof they quoted Joe´s post. at least that shows you that some gaming journalists still believe in DNF and can´t await it´s arrival. :D
:doh:

No wonder Joe and George are reluctant to give out information.

[Foxy]

I can be a games journalist just by forum lurking! YAY!

[Mr.Sociopath]

i just found this little article of a german PC magazine called Gamestar:
http://www.gamestar.de/news/pc/spiele/action/duke_nukem_forever/1463808/duke_nukem_forever.html
they seem to suck every little bit of information about DNF out of the 3DRealms forums, i mean this "news" article only says that there won´t be a game manual in DNF, as proof they quoted Joe´s post. at least that shows you that some gaming journalists still believe in DNF and can´t await it´s arrival. :D
there's a spy among us :insomnia:

[Sang]

Maybe he should post this:

"I'm a silly journalist that doesn't understand sarcasm and takes everything literally without attempting to get some decent proof apart from a forum quote"

I'd doubt he'd do that, though :P

[hell-angel]

there's a spy among us :insomnia:
Who is it? :ted:


Everybody on the spy hunt. 007 must be stopped. :mad:

;)

[wayskobfssae]

Can someone translate that article for morons like me who don't have a second language?

[Halcyon]

"Well designed manuals are always the icing on the cake of great packages. To address the issue of an enthusiastic fan, how the manual of Duke Nukem Forever will look like, 3D-Realms-Webmaster Joe Siegler answered: "No manual. Figure it out on your own."

By this, they will probably have at least a higher budget for silly postcards and plastic dolls in the Collector's edition."


All in all, Gamestar.de proves again to be one of the lowest life-forms on our planet.
Sorry if the translation is not very good, I'm a little tired right now.:o

[SyntaxN]

"Well designed manuals are always the icing on the cake of great packages. To address the issue of an enthusiastic fan, how the manual of Duke Nukem Forever will look like, 3D-Realms-Webmaster Joe Siegler answered: "No manual. Figure it out on your own."

By this, they will probably have at least a higher budget for silly postcards and plastic dolls in the Collector's edition."


All in all, Gamestar.de proves again to be one of the lowest life-forms on our planet.
Sorry if the translation is not very good, I'm a little tired right now.:o
What´s your problem with that?
You could say the lowest life-form thing about every game mag out there... ;)

[wayskobfssae]

How much information do you need to learn to play an FPS?

An in-game tutorial will help you if you need it, but 3DR may also just be referring to a paper manual, which frankly is no longer needed unless you're making a game so intricate that you need the book next to you while you're playing.

I'm sure there will be a pdf file packaged with the game.

[alexgk]

I'm sure there will be a pdf file packaged with the game.
pdf files are the same than manuals, and joe said there won't be no manuals at all.

[hell-angel]

Joe was also joking, the game is not even done yet so they are probably not even thinking about manuals just yet. :)

[alexgk]

Might be.

[Joe Siegler]

Joe was also joking, the game is not even done yet so they are probably not even thinking about manuals just yet. :)

Correct.

[hiob]

Todays News:
A fan asked nicely, if there will be a game manual for DNF, the only thing Joe Siegler the webmaster said was, there will be no manual, without further explanation.
The superjournalists - that we are - found out that this is not true, it was only a joke. Once again our magazine uncovered the truth.

[Micki!]

I'm still waiting for some magazine to actually do exactly that... :D

And maybe even drag in that you just said that they'd do so too... :hhg:

[Judge]

I'm still waiting for some magazine to actually do exactly that... :D

And maybe even drag in that you just said that they'd do so too... :hhg:
I mentioned it on GameStar's forums. Now we'll see if they have the balls to correct their "news". :D

[Micki!]

Hahaha...
But i bet they read what we say (laugh) about them here, so they surely won't include it...

Or will they..? :o

[hiob]

oh I just got an offer from them, to be their undercover in-depth journalist; they said that they like my style :p

[Micki!]

Haha...
Sounds like something they actually would do... :hhg:

[alexgk]

I really don't know why you're staring at me like that. I don't work for GameStar.de, and that little notebook with data taken from these forums isn't mine, I swear.
*me shot by unknown guy*

[Damien from omen]

and seriously... This thread is pretty pathetic, why do we even need to have adisscussion about the MANUAL? Who cares, its gonna have one, and we all know Otto will think it sucks because it will have the standard nub dribble in it. You know why? Because Games that are good have shitty instruction manuals. Its a proven fact, because I said so.

No i belive this thread is good. Every game needs a manual IMO. Because i want something to read while my mum spends 30 minutes in each clothes store looking at stuff. Manuals also offer a storyline, etc etc.

Also the manual smells VERY nice. I like that smell.

Also its a proven fact, because i said so...

[hiob]

the smell of fresh manuals, oh yeah. :D

[Micki!]

the smell of fresh manuals, oh yeah. :D

It's funny, because it's true... :)