This is what i think of Prey...

[North duker]

Hi there Guys

This is what i think about the full 22 levels version of Prey: I have finish this game in 7,5 hours and without any cheats at all. Fine graphics, I like the “spirit walks” very much, the portals was also great and so goes for the wall walking, flipping rooms upside-down was also really cool. It doesn’t support SLI and that’s bad.
The game was to dark in almost every levels. And I don’t like to playing a quality game in totally darkness and with only a lighter and no flashlight, it’s almost like Doom 3 but much better but not god enough. They should have much more outdoor levels and not only running around in dark rooms and hallways and so on and a lots of more Creatures and other characters and it was to less of humours and I think that this game was god but boring. Bad weapons.

Finally:

A quality game that have been under development so long time should be Much Much better.

This game is not as god as it should be after almost 12 years in development.

Was it worth this long wait?

Answer: No it wasn’t


Sorry.

[tisuko]

if it was to dark for you... you should of turned up the brightness and the gama in the option section. it does make a difference.

[Neo]

Yeah some outdoor levels is what the game usually get the critics for but hey i dont care game is fun so far and i havent completed it yet.

[Duoae]

Thing is that people seem to not realise is that this game has not been in development for 12 years.

Head on over to Lon Matero's prey page (http://www.apogeegames.com/prey/) for a detailed history of the prey project in all it's forms.
Just because an idea has been around for a long time doesn't mean that all the work on that idea is in the finished game.

:)

[Irontusker]

I loved it.

But paying $60 for a game that had 7-8 hours of gameplay is pretty irritating.

Sorry guys. I know when Duke Nukem finally comes out I will pass on it until the price is sub $30. I don't want to get burned twice.

I really thought I would be playing this for 2-3 weeks. Get maybe 30-60 hours on it. Even after the Mother fight I thought I would be figuring out a way to destroy the sphere and getting off of it before the desctruction.

The 7-8 hours that were there were amazing. Just not $60 amazing. Or even $50 non-special edition amazing.

[Jigsaw]

But paying $60 for a game that had 7-8 hours of gameplay is pretty irritating.

That's expensive!

I payed 40 Euros for it, which is about $50.

[North duker]

Thing is that people seem to not realise is that this game has not been in development for 12 years.

Head on over to Lon Matero's prey page (http://www.apogeegames.com/prey/) for a detailed history of the prey project in all it's forms.
Just because an idea has been around for a long time doesn't mean that all the work on that idea is in the finished game.

:)
OK…let’s make it 9 or 10 years then, but it’s still a long development time and you should aspect more from a game like prey in quality, first of all is only about 2.2GB in size and it should having at least 3.5GB in total size, and the game play should be about 50 levels and not only 22 as it is in the full version, and the weapons was also really weak and some weapons doesn’t work at all. OK…This game was really god, but not god enough and not big enough. Finally I am a little disappointed on this release.

[Jigsaw]

I'm for one am glad now that it took so long. Today's Prey is more than likely a lot better than it would have been 10 years ago. Good things need time. That's why still keep my hopes for DNF up. I hope it's gonna be a lot better than what we saw back in that E3 presentation.

[Orochi Avlis]

12 years of development? Try 4 to 5.

Prey was canned in 98 and in limbo for 3 years until 3DR snagged the rights again. The version that HH released now has been in development since 2001.

[OptimusPrime]

I love the MP, so for me it worth 55 euro's. And the SP rox also :)

[dale h]

Well i completed Prey in about 8-9 hours, in 2 non-stop sessions on Friday night and Saturday night.

Loved every second of it, the single player that is, i dont really play FPS multiplayer, from start to finnish. Loved the graphics, loved the gameplay, ultimately though it did feel very short and left me with a feeling of disapointment in the end, though i am now desperate to replay it.

Not quite up there with HL2, which i think is better overall, more varied and much longer, but then again not many games do live upto HL2 in my opinion.

Prey though was the most addictive game i played, FPS thats is, probably since HL2.

And was amazed at how well it ran, medium settings, on my ageing machine (P2.66GHz cpu, 1G ram, 9800 Pro, Windows XP)

Certainly it was packed full of stuff, just not enough of it.

[Duoae]

OK…let’s make it 9 or 10 years then, but it’s still a long development time and you should aspect more from a game like prey in quality, first of all is only about 2.2GB in size and it should having at least 3.5GB in total size, and the game play should be about 50 levels and not only 22 as it is in the full version, and the weapons was also really weak and some weapons doesn’t work at all. OK…This game was really god, but not god enough and not big enough. Finally I am a little disappointed on this release.


Orochi got it right, it's five years. That's about average development time for a game these days. Also what does the size of the game folder have to do with the quality of the game? Freelancer is only 892MB and that's a long and great game (IMO)....
But you are entitled to not like a game, or be dissapointed by it. I felt the same about Half Life 2, but there were many people who felt it was the best game of all time. :)

[pooch_skrew]

you got to factor in that human head were a unreal engine company.i think they did a great job learning a new engine and releasing a great game.

[9Nails]

... It doesn’t support SLI and that’s bad....

I like to quote SteamPowered's survey since it's comprised from gamers and for gamers. Those "bleeding edge" SLI users comprise of 0.77% of the total users surveyed. Should games support less than 1% of the GPU configurations? It's probably not worth the money to devote the engineer's to write the code now. But if it can be done in the drivers then you just need to bark at your GPU vendor for support.

[avatar_58]

12 years of development? Try 4 to 5.

Prey was canned in 98 and in limbo for 3 years until 3DR snagged the rights again. The version that HH released now has been in development since 2001.

Yeah but try to explain that to people. Just wait till DNF gets here "I waited 1(0) years for this???". People can't seem to understand what a cancellation/restart actually means.

I like to quote SteamPowered's survey since it's comprised from gamers and for gamers. Those "bleeding edge" SLI users comprise of 0.77% of the total users surveyed. Should games support less than 1% of the GPU configurations? It's probably not worth the money to devote the engineer's to write the code now. But if it can be done in the drivers then you just need to bark at your GPU vendor for support.

Please don't assume 100% of gamers actually use steam or even bothered to take that survey. While it was a great idea on valve's part, it isn't manditory and not everyone out there even played HL2.

[George Broussard]

This game is not as god as it should be after almost 12 years in development.
Sorry you didn't like it.

It was something like 4.5 years, btw. Prey wasn't in development the whole time and the early version was killed for several years and *no* work was done on it at all.

[pooch_skrew]

I like to quote SteamPowered's survey since it's comprised from gamers and for gamers. Those "bleeding edge" SLI users comprise of 0.77% of the total users surveyed. Should games support less than 1% of the GPU configurations? It's probably not worth the money to devote the engineer's to write the code now. But if it can be done in the drivers then you just need to bark at your GPU vendor for support.
actually steam is mostly comprised of 12 year olds that use there momma's old pc and play counterstrike 1.6[the num 1 game on the net].
http://archive.gamespy.com/stats/mods.asp?id=15&s=1

[9Nails]

...Please don't assume 100% of gamers actually use steam or even bothered to take that survey. While it was a great idea on valve's part, it isn't manditory and not everyone out there even played HL2.

I won't assume that. Valve claims that 16 million units (of something) have been sold. And the survey only covers 700,000 unique samples. It's a ballpark figure better than me saying that SLI is so expensive that only 1% of the people are using it without having any facts.

[9Nails]

actually steam is mostly comprised of 12 year olds that use there momma's old pc and play counterstrike 1.6[the num 1 game on the net].
http://archive.gamespy.com/stats/mods.asp?id=15&s=1

Why do you think I'm playing Prey? ;)

[CrimsonHead]

Prey is too dark? There was only like 3-4 times in the entire game that I actually had to use the lighter. It sounds more like a monitor gamma issue. About the environment thing, most people know the story prey follows, about the sphere, etc. what kind kind of other environments could you fit into that kind of story? You can't just throw in sunlit beaches or Urban cities, it just would'nt be cohesive.

[Quason]

You can't just throw in sunlit beaches

Paradise... gone wrong. In space. With Indians.

[von OberWurst]

.
The game was to dark in almost every levels. And I don’t like to playing a quality game in totally darkness and with only a lighter and no flashlight, it’s almost like Doom 3 but much better but not god enough. They should have much more outdoor levels and not only running around in dark rooms and hallways

Doom3 was too dark and Quake 4 tended to be so too, but not Prey. Only used the lighter/flashlight once, and that was in the beginning of the game, where you are supposed to use it. Prey is far from being as dark as Doom3.

Maybe you should buy at new monitor or adjust you gfx-card. ;)

[tkmaster]

Hi there Guys

This is what i think about the full 22 levels version of Prey: I have finish this game in 7,5 hours and without any cheats at all. Fine graphics, I like the “spirit walks” very much, the portals was also great and so goes for the wall walking, flipping rooms upside-down was also really cool. It doesn’t support SLI and that’s bad.
The game was to dark in almost every levels. And I don’t like to playing a quality game in totally darkness and with only a lighter and no flashlight, it’s almost like Doom 3 but much better but not god enough. They should have much more outdoor levels and not only running around in dark rooms and hallways and so on and a lots of more Creatures and other characters and it was to less of humours and I think that this game was god but boring. Bad weapons.

Finally:

A quality game that have been under development so long time should be Much Much better.

This game is not as god as it should be after almost 12 years in development.

Was it worth this long wait?

Answer: No it wasn’t


Sorry.
actually for a while the game was actually considered cancelled... development was esentially halted on prey back then, it wasnt until human head studios came to 3d realms to look into restarting the development on prey and it was worth the wait

[Apache]

thank you for sharing your opinion, sir.

[SRTDeagle]

The game was to dark in almost every levels. And I don’t like to playing a quality game in totally darkness and with only a lighter and no flashlight, it’s almost like Doom 3 but much better but not god enough.

What's the problem with dark environments? This game was not at all as dark as Doom 3. As far as the lighter is concerned, that's because the guy is a mechanic. I believe it was a great idea to use instead of a flashlight. Games that use darker themes are designed to add atmosphere. Sounds to me like you are just a puss and are scared. Either that, or just lazy.

Bad weapons.

The weapons were designed for an alien atmosphere. It's not like you are going to use regular weapons found on Earth in an alien world. I believe they were very creative and kept things interesting. It's about being different and giving us, the gamer, a fresh load of new ideas. This makes things not so stale as in many other FPS games.

A quality game that have been under development so long time should be Much Much better.

Are you forgetting they cancelled the original game then decided to go back into production at a later date? You cannot use this to justify the quality of the game. It technically was developed in a 3 1/2 year period, not 12. They used the Doom 3 engine because it was the most advanced tech available at the time. I think they utilized the Doom 3 engine to its full potential and the game looked fantastic.

This game is not as god as it should be after almost 12 years in development.

Was it worth this long wait?

Answer: No it wasn’t

Like I said above, Prey was actually developed in 3 1/2 years. Some say 4 1/2, but you get the idea. It wasn't all done in 12 years! You need to do your homework before you start running your mouth. It was definately worth the wait as it introduced new and refreshing ideas that made the game stand out in the overcrowded FPS genre. The story was excellent and keeps you on the edge.

I am looking forward to Prey 2...

Up with Prey and down with lamers saying this sort of crap.

[hiob]

discussing doesn´t mean pissing each other off, he didn´t like the game - fine
i loved the game - also fine

also a lot of people say was it worth the wait, but they actually didn´t wait for the game, the only guy i know that waited for this game since the start is Lon Matero, i would be interested what he thinks of the game

[Mr.DJ]

Just recently completed the PC version of Prey and thought I would join in on giving some feedback! :)

So, here's MR.DJ's all cool review of the PC game Prey!

Cons: The game is a little too "kid friendly" IMO. Meaning, not enough gore and little too easy/simple puzzles(it's not necessary to leave a mark, everytime the player has the option of spirit walking, infact it leaves a "consol" feel to the game instead, again IMO).
Prey's using the Doom3 engine. And I have the feeling using the Doom3 engine had some great limitations on how far Human Head was able to go with the content/gameplay. Interactive enviroments(which I would have liked) are generally not present in Doom3 powered games, like so with big areas. The only purpose behind the Doom3 engine seems to be to introduce normal mapping with it's so called realistic lights and shadows(which I'm affraid is not enough to sell new games these days).
Would have liked more "wauw" gameplay moments(like when the players is shrinked and faces the now giant enemy opponent looking down on him in the glas cube. The end battle was also a little uninspirering...

Pros:
Felt well polished, no major gameplay bugs encountered. Generally excellent art and good level design that did an ok job of immersing me in Prey's universe. Game mechanics that made Prey feel diff./more unik(although, it did feel like they could easily have taken it further, if they had been able to spend more time on implementing the features).

All in all: Prey is a well handcrafted title that should appeal to fans of the FPS genre. I have no problem recommending Prey to FPS fans.

However, although I generally enjoyed playing through Prey, I most say it didn't quite "deliver" as much as I had hoped for.
Scott Miller was really giving Prey some high praises(reading the Credits, I can also understand why ;P ). But I'm affraid Prey isn't quite as revolutionary as he would like to give the impression of! :)

So, there should be plenty of room for an improved Prey 2 in the future, which
I will look forward to! ;)

Cheers!

-------------------------- Some leftovers from an insane long review I was just about to write, but then quit when I finally came to my senses ;) ------------------------------------------------
Graphics
In short: Generally excellent art and good level design. Would have welcomed more interactive enviroments and lesser the "sterile" deserted look though. BUT, I understand the used Doom3 engine didn't make it easy to accomplish something like this. And I'm actually pleased to see how much more performance HH managed to squeeze out of it, to allow bigger areas to be playable with a lesser than high-end PC system.

Longer comment: However, judging from the first Prey ingame video,(and being the graphics whore that I am), I'm sorry to notice they seem to have choosen to lower texture resolution and entirely leaving out certain textures in the final release of the game(missing textures on the spinning rock the player lands on in the video. And I somehow also suspect the textures being of higher resolution, than what shipped in the final game).
I'm guessing this was either a trade-off, they deemed necessary(in which case, I just hope it wasn't done because of caving to the "hardware low-end" market?) or it was simply graphically beefed up scenes, specifically made for the video, to give a good first impression of the game.

But allround, graphics is meant to immerse the player in the game, and I feel it did that. So, to cut it in short, Prey's graphics "got the job done".

[Savant_Warlord13]

Hi there Guys

This is what i think about the full 22 levels version of Prey: I have finish this game in 7,5 hours and without any cheats at all. Fine graphics, I like the “spirit walks” very much, the portals was also great and so goes for the wall walking, flipping rooms upside-down was also really cool. It doesn’t support SLI and that’s bad.
The game was to dark in almost every levels. And I don’t like to playing a quality game in totally darkness and with only a lighter and no flashlight, it’s almost like Doom 3 but much better but not god enough. They should have much more outdoor levels and not only running around in dark rooms and hallways and so on and a lots of more Creatures and other characters and it was to less of humours and I think that this game was god but boring. Bad weapons.

Finally:

A quality game that have been under development so long time should be Much Much better.

This game is not as god as it should be after almost 12 years in development.

Was it worth this long wait?

Answer: No it wasn’t


Sorry.
I am going to assume english is a second language to you. That aside, I think it was a great game. Putting outdoor environments inside an alien spaceship would be difficult and downright stupid.

[Savant_Warlord13]

12 years of development? Try 4 to 5.

Prey was canned in 98 and in limbo for 3 years until 3DR snagged the rights again. The version that HH released now has been in development since 2001.
If that is true, that would make 9 years of development

[hiob]

wow math isn´t your kind of terrain huh
2001 start of development.... 2006 gold announcment (end of development) = 5years

[steel grey]

I paid £24.99 for this game, which is not a lot of money so I am not going to complain about value for money. All the same I expect more than what this game has to offer and feel let down with the final version. Shame because after playing the demo I expcted this game to be first class, but in the end its just going to be remembered for its graphics and lack of action.

[ReidV]

If that is true, that would make 9 years of development

Heh.

"Prey was canned in 98 and in limbo for 3 years until 3DR snagged the rights again. The version that HH released now has been in development since 2001."

2006 - 2001 = 5. Factor in the months, and perhaps one would come out with George Broussard's 4.5 year estimate. ;)

That is unless it is actually the year 2010 and I have just awaken from a four year coma :o.

[Telee]

I'm buying Prey tomorrow, I'm not too worried about length. I'm sure I'll play it a couple times ;) Also, what kind of things were you dissapointed people expecting? I'm surprised Human Head even managed to make this...

[0marTheZealot]

The more I play Prey, the more I realize that Prey was seriously consolified/dumbed down.

First of all, the enemies simply refuse to shoot back. I just finished a session of Cherokee (just killed the Centurion). First of all, there's nothing but hunters up to this point. 50% of the time, they refused to shoot me. They simply stand there waiting to die. Once in a while, they take a couple steps to the left or right, but that's about it. The hunters literally stand there waiting for you to shoot them. The only times they really shoot with a vengence was when I was behind cover. Otherwise, the best way to kill a hunter is just to stand in the open and shoot at him. Every other time, he simply won't shoot you, 25% of the time, he'll just spray and miss every shot and finally 25% he might actually nail you.

Secondly, every powerup in the game (guns, ammo, grenades) blinks to alert even the stupidest of players. I mean come on now! Enemies drop guns, that's been a part of the FPS genre since Wolf3D. There's no real overriding reason why they should blink! Doom3, the darkest game ever, didn't have blinking guns/ammo. Why should they blink in Prey? It makes no sense, unless a bunch of play testers @ HH had zero darkvision. Maybe have the gun sheen or something. There's no need to say LOOK YOU CAN PICK UP GUNS AND AMMO THAT ENEMIES DROP. 99% of the gaming public knows that; it's been a staple ever since FPS games have been out.

Additionally, why is there ammo hidden away in the weirdest spots? While in spiritwalk, sometimes you'll find ammo caches in the wall and on ledges that have zero connection to doors/elevators. And every single one of these caches will have a giant sun symbols screaming at you to spiritwalk. That bugged me to no end. It doesn't make any sense. Why would there be ammo in a place where literally no enemy can reach it.

Another sticking point are those the hints that appear in game. Press V with the leech gun to leech this! Mouse up/Mouse down to zoom in/out for the sniper rifle! Mouse 1 to use! It appears every single time you activate the sniper and whenever you come near a leech node or whenever you need to activate a console. I don't have to be reminded that leech nodes can be leeched by hitting V while using the leech gun. I don't need to be reminded that I can zoom in/out by using the mouse wheel. It's insulting to me. It seriously kills the immersion when the 4th wall is broken like that. Are gamers so dumb nowadays that they literally cannot remember what the game rules are for more than 15 minutes? Do we have to led by the hand, baby stepping through the game now? For one, there is a manual which should detail every action in the game. Having the hint dialogue pop up ONCE during the game should be enough. Unless the target demographic has Alzheimer's, why put in these reminders every time we engage in these actions.

Not having a selectable difficulty is beyond me. I know 3DR is a huge fan of ADD, but it just plain doesn't work, especially in Prey. 7 levels into Cherokee mode, and I have not noticed the Hunters (because that's the only enemy in the game so far) doing anything other than standing there and dying. It's not like I even died that many times (maybe twice so far?). The AI is just retarded. They refuse to shoot me unless I stand still for several seconds and don't fire back. Just forget this ADD nonsense and put in an easy/medium/hard mode. That way newbies and casual gamers can pick something to suit them and more skilled players can pick a difficulty that challenges them. As it stands, I'm waiting until I hit all the right variables before the Hunters start shooting.

These are some of the many questionable design decisions in Prey.

[Straw Dog]

Whoa Omar, Thats an impressive rant there!

I think you raise some very good points, especially about the difficulty levels and the onscreen instructions. These onscreen instructions are becoming a worryingly common trend. Tomb Raider Legend was still telling you how to 'jump' right up until the end of the game. I truly hope this isn't the path most developers choose from now on. It certainly does seem as if a lot of developers are wary of making their games too difficult for fear of not selling as many copies. I guess only they know what an impact this has had on sales figures in the last few years. Maybe really tough games have seen the most failures. But if my knowledge serves me Far Cry (incredibly tough first instalment) has gone on to become a massive franchise and Ninja Gaiden is also massive.

all that remains to say is :( ...to the future of gaming

[Denz]

OK…let’s make it 9 or 10 years then, but it’s still a long development time and you should aspect more from a game like prey in quality, first of all is only about 2.2GB in size and it should having at least 3.5GB in total size, and the game play should be about 50 levels and not only 22 as it is in the full version, and the weapons was also really weak and some weapons doesn’t work at all. OK…This game was really god, but not god enough and not big enough. Finally I am a little disappointed on this release.


They basically restarted everything in 2001 2002 with the Doom 3 engine.

[Zixinus]

Paradise... gone wrong. In space. With Indians.

LOL. Just and plainly LoL.

It doesn’t support SLI and that’s bad.

The hell is SLI? Is it shiney? WILL IT MAKE THE GAME BETTER? WILL DEVELOPERS HAVE TO DO ANOTHER MONTH OF WORK TO IMPLANT SOME GRAPIC EFFECT THAT MAY BE ABSULUTLY USELESS?

They should have much more outdoor levels

Outdoor levels. In a space ship. Right.

First of all, the enemies simply refuse to shoot back. I just finished a session of Cherokee (just killed the Centurion). First of all, there's nothing but hunters up to this point. 50% of the time, they refused to shoot me. They simply stand there waiting to die. Once in a while, they take a couple steps to the left or right, but that's about it. The hunters literally stand there waiting for you to shoot them. The only times they really shoot with a vengence was when I was behind cover. Otherwise, the best way to kill a hunter is just to stand in the open and shoot at him. Every other time, he simply won't shoot you, 25% of the time, he'll just spray and miss every shot and finally 25% he might actually nail you.

Game adjusts to your level of playing. So. You are lame. :)

Another sticking point are those the hints that appear in game. Press V with the leech gun to leech this! Mouse up/Mouse down to zoom in/out for the sniper rifle! Mouse 1 to use! It appears every single time you activate the sniper and whenever you come near a leech node or whenever you need to activate a console. I don't have to be reminded that leech nodes can be leeched by hitting V while using the leech gun. I don't need to be reminded that I can zoom in/out by using the mouse wheel. It's insulting to me. It seriously kills the immersion when the 4th wall is broken like that. Are gamers so dumb nowadays that they literally cannot remember what the game rules are for more than 15 minutes? Do we have to led by the hand, baby stepping through the game now? For one, there is a manual which should detail every action in the game. Having the hint dialogue pop up ONCE during the game should be enough. Unless the target demographic has Alzheimer's, why put in these reminders every time we engage in these actions.

You can turn off the tutorial hints and reminders if you like. If my memory serves right.


Ohhh, and by the way. The game was in development hell, so please give respect. It is surprising that they were able to pull this much off, knowing all the bullshit that game developers have to go trough these days.

[Straw Dog]

Game adjusts to your level of playing. So. You are lame. :)


LMAO!! thats one way of looking at it. :haha:

[CameO73]

Additionally, why is there ammo hidden away in the weirdest spots? While in spiritwalk, sometimes you'll find ammo caches in the wall and on ledges that have zero connection to doors/elevators. And every single one of these caches will have a giant sun symbols screaming at you to spiritwalk. That bugged me to no end. It doesn't make any sense. Why would there be ammo in a place where literally no enemy can reach it.
One explanation could be that these items were hidden by the others (that most likely have some spiritual powers also). That's why there's always a sun symbol at these points: to help the 'resistance'.

[Mr.DJ]

Telee,

some things I would pick on, and why:

A litte more time spent on story/character development.
Why? Scott said one of the goals of Prey, was to achieve deeper emotions than that of the Max Payne series. And...well, I simply can't see were Prey surpasses Max Payne in this regard.

More interactive/advanced enviroments/game design.
How's that? Undtill this date, "3DRealms" games(to me) have always meant creative immersing level design, by introducing just enough fresh ideas/twists to set their design apart from the rest.
Prey did use portals and gravity tricks and managed to balance the performance of the Doom3 engine to allow "bigger" areas to be playable on lower end machines and that's all great.
But, again IMO, they simply didn't "go all the way" or just "quite far enough" with the new gameplay mechanics. This is also why I think some of the user responses on these forums call the mechanics "gimmicky". If the developers had taken the ideas a little further, I really think Prey would have rocked that much harder.
So in short, Prey lacked a bit creative ambitions in excecution, from becoming really great and instead became an above average fps shooter, that lacked that last bit to become great...which annoyed me a little :)

[Yorgor]

I like Prey, it gives me a break after getting real intense in Q4.

[StainedCheeks]

I like Prey, it gives me a break after getting real intense in Q4.

yeah prey is a great sci fi fps...and i also love Q4 as well...if its sci fi and a fps i am IN! cant see how people complain.:brickwall:

[Rizno]

I have played many many games... and there isnt one game out there that has a forum where there arent people who complain or have not so good things to say about the game.... its a fact you can not please all of the people all of the time.. GREAT GAME and even better dev involvement/communication, the 2k hdr teams are actually posting on the forums here and are involved in discussions that is a miracle when compared to almost every single dev/pub team out there!!