Nooo! ( Nmpa Related )

[jimbob]

wel, today i heard U2`s sunday bloody sunday on the radio and thought, wel, lets try to learn that guitar part.

so, i went to my usual tab site ( www.guitartabs.cz ) only to find out they recently put a hold on all tabs because aparently the NMPA thinks its illegal to work out how a song works and then share it with others.

the manager dude from the site wrote a nice thing about the situation.

To all "Guitar Tab Universe" visitors:

The company which owns this website has been indirectly threatened (via our ISP) with legal action by the National Music Publishers' Association (NMPA) as well as the Music Publishers' Association (MPA) on the basis that sharing tablature constitutes copyright infringement. At what point does describing how one plays a song on guitar become an issue of copyright infringment? This website, among other things, helps users teach eachother how they play guitar parts for many different songs. This is the way music teachers have behaved since the first music was ever created. The difference here is that the information is shared by way of a new technology: the Internet.

When you are jamming with a friend and you show him/her the chords for a song you heard on the radio, is that copyright infringement? What about if you helped him/her remember the chord progression or riff by writing it down on, say, a napkin... infringement? If he/she calls you later that night on the phone or e-mails you and you respond via one of those methods, are you infringing? I don't know... but I would really like to know. If anyone has information on this, please email support@guitartabs.cc.

Apparently, the NMPA/MPA believes that the Internet may be on the foul side of the legality line they would like to draw here. For me, I see no difference. It's teachers educating students and covered as a 'fair use' of the tablature. The teachers here don't even get paid nor do the students have to pay this website to access the lessons.

An attack on this website is really an attack on every one of you who have told someone (in person, or via the written word, telephone, or e-mail) how you play a song on guitar. And who, especially among small websites, has the deep pockets to fight the NMPA/MPA? They use scare tactics while there is, in fact, no legal precedent on this matter (to the best of our knowledge). If you are interested in expressing your opinion to the NMPA/MPA, contact them via their respective websites. Please do not resort to vulgar language or insults.

Millions of people use the Internet to learn guitar, in one form or another. It appears the NMPA/MPA and their members do not want to support us and help us further our education. To you visitors from outside the USA or UK, can you find your favorite artists' "official sheet music" at your local music store? Even in the United States and United Kingdom, we often can not. The NMPA/MPA have a choice to make: either they support us as aspiring guitarists, or they choose to alienate their customer base. To date, not one sheet music publisher has contacted this website to either inquire as to our activities or to express interest in any type of dialogue or collaboration whatsoever. All we deserve is a cold, indirect, impersonal threat without any explanation? They should embrace new technologies or else become relics of the old economy.

Since I'm now 'worried' about working around tabs at all, I'm in a tough situation! Luckily, I'm fairly confident that if I alone listen to a song and then figure out how to play it by ear, I will then be able to enjoy using that knowledge to practice and improve my guitar playing skills. Is that what is necessary for everyone to do? Work these things out alone? What a sad situation.

Sincerely,
Rob Balch

Manager of "Guitar Tab Universe"

i cant help but agree, Guitar tabs are quite similar to what midi files are, the listeners rendition of a song. basicly an "This is how i play it" Way of learning a song and not an sheet music file or something.

i think this copyright quest the record companies and the like are having is going too far, next thing you know you cant even whistle a song without getting a $50.000 dollar fine!

[Ivan]

I heard they're going after lyrics sites now.

[jimbob]

yeah, and that too, next thing you know even mentioning or reviewing a song could lead to being sued :o

[Ivan]

yeah, and that too, next thing you know even mentioning or reviewing a song could lead to being sued :o

Here's a 4 day old article on the lyrics-issue, I was talking about:

Click here! (http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,1989235,00.asp)

[Rider]

Next thing you know, they'll be sueing bands that do covers or tributes to other bands' songs, it's the original band's property eh?

Some people...

[Laz]

I heard they're going after lyrics sites now.

And they're justified. What gives anyone the right to speak words that are arranged in a specific order by a certain band? Pretty soon you guys are just going to want handouts. I'll tell you this, if we didn't have these fine gentlemen at NMPA keeping you guys in check, the world would be in utter chaos. :D

Next thing you know, they'll be sueing bands that do covers or tributes to other bands' songs, it's the original band's property eh?

Some people...

If people like Rider here ran the world, we probably wouldn't be allowed to copyright words. Shame on you Rider. ;)


This is getting way out of hand. Tabs infringe copyrights? Lyrics infringe copyrights? What the hell. Is it even going to be possible to write a song in five years? If every word is copyrighted and using the Am chord(that MAY just happen to be in another song!) lands you a lawsuit, what next? These people need to just...lay off.

[Orochi Avlis]

This is getting way out of hand. Tabs infringe copyrights? Lyrics infringe copyrights? What the hell. Is it even going to be possible to write a song in five years? If every word is copyrighted and using the Am chord(that MAY just happen to be in another song!) lands you a lawsuit, what next? These people need to just...lay off.
Well, people have been copyrighting programming code as well.

[Joe Siegler]

Next thing you know, they'll be sueing bands that do covers or tributes to other bands' songs, it's the original band's property eh?

Some people...

That's happened. Technically by the law, you're not allowed to do that without paying royalties.

[GodBlitZor]

:doh:

[Tang Lung]

All the more reason why music should be downloaded off p2p programs and stuff like that. Kill off the record companies, boy bands, and mainstream rap 'stars'. Bring music back to the people, and away from the scum like the NMPA.

[Joe Siegler]

All the more reason why music should be downloaded off p2p programs and stuff like that. Kill off the record companies, boy bands, and mainstream rap 'stars'. Bring music back to the people, and away from the scum like the NMPA.

No, actually the payment of royalties for covers has been around for ages, far before the "screw the MPAA" movement of the last few years.

[jimbob]

the thing that bugs me is that with stuff like Itunes and the like, a huge percentage still go to the record companies and not the artists, the artists get less than 10% of the profit on a distribution system the record company has very little to do with, yet the record companies get the biggest cut.

there was an article about this lately might have been posted here but i fail to locate it at the moment.

[avatar_58]

That's happened. Technically by the law, you're not allowed to do that without paying royalties.

Thats the way it should be, why should other bands be making money off someone else's song?

[Joe Siegler]

Thats the way it should be, why should other bands be making money off someone else's song?

I'm not disagreeing with it. Just pointing out what I was aware of.

Also, when I was in college, there was a course I took called 'Radio, Television, & Film". One of the things discussed back then was record contracts.

Now this was 1984, and things have changed, but the percentages probably are still in the same ballpark. They said your average record contract back then for an album that sold for say $12 or so, the artist would get about $1 of that. The largest single chunk of where the money you pay an album for goes to is the actual store you bought it from. Not the label, but the store.

Now again, this is 22 year old info, it may not completely be accurate anymore, but I can't imagine it's all THAT different.

Course iTunes is totally different in that regard, I seem to recall reading that Apple makes about 8 cents for a 99 cent song or something like that.

[Paroxysm]

Paying for covers is pretty standard. Sure the buskers and dudes that play 21st parties get away with it but if you release it you'll be damn sure paying or being sued.

[Vivi]

Are they going to outlaw playing songs at clubs? What about radio?

[jimbob]

wel, you`d better not hum or sing a song in public.

[Paroxysm]

Are they going to outlaw playing songs at clubs? What about radio?
Both those places already pay.

[Orochi Avlis]

wel, you`d better not hum or sing a song in public.
Or strum a chord without somebody's consent.

[jimbob]

Or strum a chord without somebody's consent.
infact, be sure to ducttape off the brand logo of the guitar or else you could be in trouble for illegal advertisement!

[Joe Siegler]

wel, you`d better not hum or sing a song in public.

Come on, get real. Don't be like that. That's not what I'm talking about - trying to be serious. :brickwall:

[Tetsuro]

You'd better stop singing in the shower too.

STAND BACK CITIZENS - INTERNET IS SERIOUS BUSINESS!

[Twin]

((U2 FANS PLEASE DON'T TAKE OFFENCE))

but this is another reason for me to hate U2 even more :D

[Kristian Joensen]

the thing that bugs me is that with stuff like Itunes and the like, a huge percentage still go to the record companies and not the artists, the artists get less than 10% of the profit on a distribution system the record company has very little to do with, yet the record companies get the biggest cut.

there was an article about this lately might have been posted here but i fail to locate it at the moment.

Well the reason for that is probably the contracts with the record companies. I don't know how Itunes works or what requirements Apple has for puttings songs on there. But legaly there is no problem for a band/group or individual singer to recording a song and/or a album and putting in on Itunes without signing an agreement with a record company. That way they would get all the Itunes profits.

However that way they would loose out on the retail market, unless they where to sign such an agreement after doing that and somehow were able to exclude the Itunes revenue from that. But that would require cloud that few have.

Also this is not an option for those who already have signed such an agreement.

[John]

Guitar Tab Universe is still up (although it might be different from your version. Just replace "cz" with "cc")

[avatar_58]

I'm not disagreeing with it. Just pointing out what I was aware of.


I know, I was just agreeing with it. :)

I wouldn't want to see some unauthorized cover getting more success than the original.

[jimbob]

Well the reason for that is probably the contracts with the record companies. I don't know how Itunes works or what requirements Apple has for puttings songs on there. But legaly there is no problem for a band/group or individual singer to recording a song and/or a album and putting in on Itunes without signing an agreement with a record company. That way they would get all the Itunes profits.

However that way they would loose out on the retail market, unless they where to sign such an agreement after doing that and somehow were able to exclude the Itunes revenue from that. But that would require cloud that few have.

Also this is not an option for those who already have signed such an agreement.
i am aware of that, the record companies are killing themselfs this way, any good band can market themselfs through the internet these days and a lot of indie bands pop up and are getting really succesfull.

people buy less and less CD`s these days because they can get music from Itunes and the likes for really cheap, only the songs they want and in a format they can put on thier MP3 players. you never hear the companies talk about how wel the music sells on Itunes etc, they only complain about the dropping CD numbers and blame that on illegal downloading, part of wich may be true, but a recent study in my country showed that people who download music tend to buy more music in the end and cherish thier original CD collection more. possibly because they have bought that CD they really wanted and liked and they know they got thier money`s worth.

you also see a lot of musicians starting thier own record company, sometimes because that way they controll all the details about thier own music, but also because that is where the real money is made.