MS stops Halogen mod

[Sayantan]

Here's the link. (http://halogen.slipstreamproductions.net/)

[Vivi]

It's always a shame to see this happen.

But another part of me is kind of happy. They should be using all that creativity to work on something original.

[Hudson]

Well yeah, otherwise MS wouldn't be able to milk Halo into a crappy RTS at some point.

[Mountain Man]

Why do people continue to be surprised that projects using IP without permission are inevitably shut down by the owners of said IP?

From the link:

The problem with using copyrighted intellectual property as a base for a fan project is that you're very susceptible to legal action. We always figured that since Halogen was such a different take on the Halo franchise, we might manage to make it without incident.
Honestly, these guys were pretty naive if they actually believed this. Too bad they didn't spend the last three years putting their efforts into an original project. At least then they wouldn't be watching all their hard work flushed down the drain.

[Hudson]

Look at Natural Selection, they took what could have been an IP infringing AvP mod and turned it into an original IP that's so much better!

Speaking of which we need a Natural Selection: Source.. or something, ANYTHING.

[FireFly]

Honestly, these guys were pretty naive if they actually believed this. Too bad they didn't spend the last three years putting their efforts into an original project. At least then they wouldn't be watching all their hard work flushed down the drain.
If you look at Bungie's track record you'll see they've always endorsed or at least turned a blind eye to, total conversions based their IP. That's why Marathon Rampancy and Marathon Resurrection - two remakes of Marathon for the UT engine, were allowed to continue unabated. That's why HaloUT, a conversion of Halo for UT 2004 was allowed to continue, with the mod team receiving explicit permission:

http://www.insidemacgames.com/news/story.php?ArticleID=11256

Perhaps Microsoft took a more active role in this case, and perhaps there is some sort of Halo RTS in development.

[Mountain Man]

If you look at Bungie's track record you'll see they've always endorsed or at least turned a blind eye to, total conversions based their IP. That's why Marathon Rampancy and Marathon Resurrection - two remakes of Marathon for the UT engine, were allowed to continue unabated. That's why HaloUT, a conversion of Halo for UT 2004 was allowed to continue, with the mod team receiving explicit permission...
Frankly, those teams were extremely lucky to receive permission after the fact. It does happen on occasion, but it's rare enough that nobody should count on it. If that's the route indy developers want to take then they should be prepared to have their work tossed to the curb. It's not so much a question of if it will happen but when.

[FireFly]

I wouldn't say it's rare within the context of Bungie's IP.

All I'm saying is that I don't think it was naive for the mod team to believe they might have had a chance to continue. They took a calculated risk and in this case it didn't turn out in their favour, but they've accepted responsibility for that, as you can see in the press release.

[Mountain Man]

Knowing how volatile IP squabbles can be, I would still consider them naive to think that because somebody else got away with it that they would, too. Honestly, three years of work is a lot to gamble on a "calculated" risk.

[Daveman]

Speaking of which we need a Natural Selection: Source.. or something, ANYTHING.
I believe they're planning on making it after finishing with the original. Though it probably won't be free. Hell, I'd pay for it, though.

[Phayzon]

Well yeah, otherwise MS wouldn't be able to milk Halo into a crappy RTS at some point.

Halo was originally going to be a Mac-exclusive RTS :)

[Orochi Avlis]

Speaking of which we need a Natural Selection: Source.. or something, ANYTHING.
Flayra is working on it.

[ZuljinRaynor]

Halo was originally going to be a Mac-exclusive RTS :)

I'm pretty sure it was the made Mac-PC. It was a RTSFPS also I think... you can "jump" into on guy and control them.

[avatar_58]

Someone want to tell me why they didn't seek permission? Theres no excuse for this crap, don't use license IPs if you can't get permission. All they have to do amusingly is change the name and make new graphics. Done. The question is: why did you *need* the IP recognition in the first place?

Its funny.....people accuse companies of riding their brand names, yet praise fangames and mods for doing the exact same thing. If your game can't make it on its own merits, its not worth playing anyway.

[FireFly]

I'm pretty sure it was the made Mac-PC. It was a RTSFPS also I think... you can "jump" into on guy and control them.
No, it was originally an RTS then it became more of a third person shooter then they finally decided to transition completely to an FPS.

[Little Conqueror]

Knowing how volatile IP squabbles can be, I would still consider them naive to think that because somebody else got away with it that they would, too. Honestly, three years of work is a lot to gamble on a "calculated" risk.

They could technically just remove all references to Halo, create original content and designs, and keep going, turning the project into something else. Many freeware games start out as fangames simply because people want to concentrate on the gameplay before they get the graphics done. Content is pretty easy to change on the fly once you've got your game mechanics down.

[Phait]

If I'm a fan of an IP and somebody is doing a mod using that IP and it gets canned, I don't want to see the graphics and names changed just to get something done that's similar to the original IP - I want, THAT IP.

[Kev_Hectic]

Someone want to tell me why they didn't seek permission? Theres no excuse for this crap, don't use license IPs if you can't get permission. All they have to do amusingly is change the name and make new graphics. Done. The question is: why did you *need* the IP recognition in the first place?

Its funny.....people accuse companies of riding their brand names, yet praise fangames and mods for doing the exact same thing. If your game can't make it on its own merits, its not worth playing anyway.


Exactly. Seems kind of stupid to throw three years of work out over something superfluous like the Halo name. As said before, they could change the title of the game, make a few aesthetic changes, drop whatever refrences to Halo that're in there and come up with their own damn fictional universe, instead of stealing sombody elses work.

I remember the same thing happening to a fan made Chrono Trigger remake a while back.

[avatar_58]

I remember the same thing happening to a fan made Chrono Trigger remake a while back.

I have no real respect for remakes of major games. They don't require the original game or content, yet allow you to play for free? Where do these people get their balls to do this sort of thing? Like the KQ1 and 2 remakes. Its borderline piracy considering you are essentially playing a beefed up clone of the original.

However for games like this Halo RTS, one has to ask why they needed the IP in the first place. Clearly they put a lot of work into it, so aren't they confident the gameplay will come out on top? Why bother with the Halo name at all? Just call it something else and use your own unique character designs. In the end you might get noticed by a developer (Hey, look what valve does) and you'll be rolling in it. No sense wasting your time arguing with a publisher about their own IP ownership.

[shiranui]

Good!
I hate MODS, 'cos they make me puke, right.

[Gryph]

If the mod didn't attach the Halo name then no one would care about it.

[Mongorian]

The question is: why did you *need* the IP recognition in the first place?

Remaking a game like Halo is much more doable (what with basically having a blueprint) and a lot of fun (Can I make this map work? What do I need to do to recreate it accurately?). I would imagine this extends to all mods that remake a commercial game.

I know I would enjoy remaking maps from other games, because it's a challenge with a clear finish line. Making a game from scratch (maps, weapons, story), while certainly rewarding, is just a lot more difficult.

Maybe there's another reason, I don't know.

[Neptune]

My opinion? Change some names around, swap some colors in the skin department, alter the story a bit... and BAM! Whole new property!

[Mountain Man]

If the mod didn't attach the Halo name then no one would care about it.
That's very probable. To get around that, amateur developers could create games that pay homage to their favorite IP, similar to the Natural Selection mod that is effectively Aliens without infringing on the Aliens IP. There's no laws preventing that.

[Little Conqueror]

If I'm a fan of an IP and somebody is doing a mod using that IP and it gets canned, I don't want to see the graphics and names changed just to get something done that's similar to the original IP - I want, THAT IP.

The problem is, you can't have that. I'd rather have the work done on the mod not wasted. Most game companies are inflexible. ESPECIALLY Microsoft.

[Jokke_r]

why the hell did they stop the mod if microsoft is complaining about them using IP owned by Bungie? what the hell does microsoft have anything to do with anything here?

[ShadeEX]

IIRC it's because Microsoft owns Bungie

[Sang]

^Yeah, Bungie is owned by Microsoft - just like Ensemble Studios (Age of Empires)

Anyway, seems like a big bummer but I never really knew this mod so I don't care all that much.

[Kristian Joensen]

IIRC it's because Microsoft owns Bungie

That would indeed be the case, to quote from the Wikipedia article:

Bungie Studios is an American (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States) video game developer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_game_developer) founded in 1991 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1991_in_video_gaming) under the name "Bungie Software Products Corporation" (more popularly shortened to just "Bungie Software") by two undergraduate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Undergraduate) students at the University of Chicago (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Chicago), Alex Seropian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_Seropian) and Jason Jones (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jason_Jones_%28programmer%29). Today it is part of Microsoft (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft)'s Game Studios (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Game_Studios) since being acquired in 2000 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000). Bungie is known as the developer of the popular video game series Halo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halo_%28video_game_series%29), Marathon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marathon_%28computer_game_series%29), and Myth (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myth_%28computer_game%29).

[Damien_Azreal]

As stated earlier in the thread, I don't really see why this is that upsetting. They had to of known this was coming sooner or later.

You always need to get permission, the team doing the Hexen mod for Doom 3 got permission from Raven to do it. So development studios do let teams do such projects, but usualy on a IP that's been unused for a while.

HALO is still pretty popular among the console market, so it seems rather unwise to try such a project. But maybe the team could modify what they have done and change the theme.
Create a mod but not in the HALO universe.

[Phayzon]

^Yeah, Bungie is owned by Microsoft - just like Ensemble Studios (Age of Empires)


And FASA (MechWarrior).