RIP Upgrading

[Higher Game]

http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/10/30/1939248&threshold=-1

This can't be for real. :mad:

[hanged_man]

yeah whatever im sure crackers will find a way around this

[Duoae]

Yeah, we talked about this in the "are you ready for vista" (or something similar) thread.

It is for real and i may as well sum up the conclusions of that thread here:

1. XP has a similar system though not as tightly worded.

2. You won't be able to change the motherboard without requiring a transfer of the original license (the one change thing new license) but other components will be okay.

3. People will probably be able to get around the problem by telling MS that their motherboard died and they installed a new one. As Vista will phone home all the time i guess they figure that most people wouldn't be able to have duplicate systems because not many people would prefer not to have any net access.

[Phayzon]

Man, this sucks hard. :mad:

[Yatta]

yeah whatever im sure crackers will find a way around this
Yeah, I figure Vista will be cracked and available to the public before it's even legally available, just as with most other software.

[Hudson]

What the hell is this shit? I remember something like this once before, it happened around 1942 in Europe.

[avatar_58]

Oh for gods sake....this is already present in XP. Anyone who thinks differently either has never upgraded or went out and bought the Pro version for an arm and a leg. The rest of you probably have the corporate warez version which allows multiple installs/upgrades.

The version you get with retail PCs is even more tightly wound than Vista is turning out to be. Here, cut through the FUD:

http://www.techweb.com/wire/software/193403029

That is much less restricted than XP, so if you use XP right now there is nothing to bitch about. In fact the only ones who are surprised by this have either stolen windows or never upgraded in their life.

[Mr.Fibbles]

I haven't done a major hardware upgrade with this hard drive yet. I plan on it soon (like this summer). Does this whole license business mean that I will have to re-activate my Windows XP Pro?
Because that sucks if it is true.
This doesn't pertain that much to me, being that I don't really plan on "upgrading" to Vista any time soon.

[ZuljinRaynor]

Windows XP asks you to reactive after major changes... but this is telling you to buy a new license? Something is probably misinterpreted... I hope.
I haven't done a major hardware upgrade with this hard drive yet. I plan on it soon (like this summer). Does this whole license business mean that I will have to re-activate my Windows XP Pro?
Because that sucks if it is true.
This doesn't pertain that much to me, being that I don't really plan on "upgrading" to Vista any time soon.

You should be fine. It lets you activate over the internet like 6 times without question.

[avatar_58]

I plan on it soon (like this summer). Does this mean that I will have to re-activate my Windows XP?

Yes, and it has been that way since XP was released. Depending on which version of XP you have, be it retail Home, Pro or OEM.

[Hudson]

Oh for gods sake....this is already present in XP. Anyone who thinks differently either has never upgraded or went out and bought the Pro version for an arm and a leg. The rest of you probably have the corporate warez version which allows multiple installs/upgrades.

The version you get with retail PCs is even more tightly wound than Vista is turning out to be. Here, cut through the FUD:

http://www.techweb.com/wire/software/193403029

That is much less restricted than XP, so if you use XP right now there is nothing to bitch about. In fact the only ones who are surprised by this have either stolen windows or never upgraded in their life.

I've used this copy on two PC's, the one I had before and the one I have now.

Vista, however is going to be around for a long, long time and considering the rate of which technology is growing I don't want to have to buy more than one copy of an operating system.

I was at first under the impression that hard drives, video cards and processors would constitute a "major hardware change", however it seems this isn't the case.

[avatar_58]

Well this is all they say:


"Microsoft: "The hardware tolerance of product activation for Windows Vista has been improved and is more flexible than that for Windows XP. We believe these improvements will better accommodate the needs of our PC enthusiast customers.

When hardware components are changed, Microsoft's product activation process compares information derived from the initial validation, which includes the hardware configuration of the device, against the changes that have been made. This process uses an algorithm to help assess whether the software is installed on the same device. Validation will fail if the software detects a substantially different hardware configuration.

At that point, the customer is able to use the one reassignment for the new device. If, after using its one reassignment right, a customer again exceeds the tolerance for updated components, the customer can purchase an additional license or seek remediation through Microsoft's support services.

Microsoft cares a great deal for its PC enthusiast customers. In fact, the hardware tolerance of product activation for Windows Vista has been improved and is more flexible than that for Windows XP. We believe these improvements will better accommodate the needs of our PC enthusiast customers." "


People are forgetting that XP also required a new activation, and multiple changes required you to phone in. They are simply telling you this up front instead of hiding it in the EULA.

Seems people are really blowing this out of proportion.

[Kevin Wolff]

What I've always wondered about is...how long after Vista comes out will MS offer re-activation keys for XP? Eventually they could get everyone onto Vista by not authorizing new (legal) installations of XP.

[Duoae]

That is much less restricted than XP, so if you use XP right now there is nothing to bitch about. In fact the only ones who are surprised by this have either stolen windows or never upgraded in their life.

Actually there is avatar. You seem to be missing the point that microsoft can in theory make it so that when you upgrade your mobo more than once you have to buy a new license - as is stated in that interview you posted.

While the general hardware upgrading may be more lenient, XP lets you transfer any number of times (in practice) to a new mobo or even when it questions the other new components since MS allows it. With vista, they may not... or rather they can choose to not.

[avatar_58]

What I've always wondered about is...how long after Vista comes out will MS offer re-activation keys for XP? Eventually they could get everyone onto Vista by not authorizing new (legal) installations of XP.

Probably just as long as they supported Windows 98. Xp will eventually die, theres no doubt about it.

Actually there is avatar. You seem to be missing the point that microsoft can in theory make it so that when you upgrade your mobo more than once you have to buy a new license - as is stated in that interview you posted.

While the general hardware upgrading may be more lenient, XP lets you transfer any number of times (in practice) to a new mobo or even when it questions the other new components since MS allows it. With vista, they may not... or rather they can choose to not.

Except XP doesn't. If you keep changing it they will flag you and force you to call in instead of just activating online. I've heard some pretty weird stories about people explaining why their PC is different, so basically this little "catch" existed with XP. Vista is simply explaining it in detail right now instead of later.

Look - you don't 'own' XP and you won't 'own' Vista. The ones who don't care and own XP right now will buy it, the ones who stole XP now will steal Vista for the very same reasons. Really there isn't much difference. The majority of users have the OEM copy, lets face it, and therefore are incredibly limited upgrade wise. If you currently bought the Pro edition, simply buy the Ultimate Vista and these restrictions might be toned down.

[Duoae]

It's going to be supported till at least 2010 - that was stated this year.

[Hudson]

I'm sure they'll handle that with "vista-only" programs and security updates.

They'll get all the gamers within a year due to DX10, and games requiring it to even play.

[avatar_58]

They'll get all the gamers within a year due to DX10, and games requiring it to even play.

Pretty much, but isn't the only logical reason to keep XP for compatibility reasons? If so, why not just install your old Win98 in VMware or on a dual-boot and play your old dos/win9x games there? From what I've heard most if not all XP games work just fine in Vista and with DX10 grade hardware you won't notice any slowdowns from emulating DX9 and below.

I can't see any real reason to keep XP, because XP is inherently bad with compatibility. There are no real "XP-only" games since they work in Vista, and most windows 9x games hate XP to begin with. So if you made the jump to XP from 98, making it to Vista is far less extreme.

[Hudson]

I want to see how a certain talked about user-software situation goes before I upgrade.

[avatar_58]

I'm just not upgrading any year soon, so until I have a DX10 card in my hand I see no reason to upgrade my O/S since I can't play the new games anyway. I think I can still drain a good year or two out of this PC since new games run just fine. ;)

[NutWrench]

No problem, we can just buy a new copy of Vista every single time we add new hardware, right? :rolleyes: :D

[IHerman]

I read somewhere that this wasn't the way it's going to work.

Users are allowed to change whatever they want without consequences, as long as it's not a Hard-drive and another component at the same time. If you do change your HD and something else at the same time, you can do so for several times, before you get into trouble.

EDIT - Found it:
http://www.bit-tech.net/news/2006/10/26/Microsoft_clarifies_Vista_activation_to_bit-tech/

"Windows Vista will not require a system re-activation unless the hard drive and one other component is changed. This means that enthusiasts will be able to swap CPUs, memory and graphics cards out without any worry about having to re-activate with MS, either on the internet or by phone.

Should you change the hard drive and another piece of hardware - for example for a major upgrade such as a motherboard change that requires a re-installation - Microsoft will allow you to re-activate up to 10 times. You will not, however, be able to have more than one machine activated concurrently.

Should you wish to activate more than 10 times, you could be busted, or Microsoft could choose to let you activate again at its discretion."

A lot of fuss about nothing... again. It seems throwing shit at each-other via weblogs and websites is the new marketing.

[Duoae]

What happens if you want to reinstall the product? Although you don't change the HDD you still have to reactivate it. That's included in the 10 times according to that statement.... It's quite possible that during a 2-5 year period that an enthusiast (ie someone mucking about with their computer registry ;) ) could reinstall at least 10 times.... especially with a new OS that no one knows how to "optimise"...

[FireFly]

They'll get all the gamers within a year due to DX10, and games requiring it to even play.
Games won't require DirectX 10 to play. DirectX 9 came out in December 2002. To my knowledge, the first game to require it was Oblivion. That's a gap of nearly three and a half years.

Hardware adoption rates are ridiculously slow, even amongst the gaming community, as you can see in the Steam survey. And publishers will only restrict their sales to a specific hardware base when that hardware base is big enough to support them. I predict that it will be three years before every game requires DirectX 10 support.

If you want the word from the horse's mouth:

"Shadowrun and Halo 2 are Vista exclusives, but they will not require DX10 hardware. Down the road, I think people will make DX10-only Vista games, but that day isn't here yet".

http://uk.gamespot.com/news/6150700.html?sid=6150700

[avatar_58]

A lot of fuss about nothing... again. It seems throwing shit at each-other via weblogs and websites is the new marketing.

Probably, I wouldn't doubt it.

[Mountain Man]

They'll get all the gamers within a year due to DX10, and games requiring it to even play.
Either that or we'll all get a Wii. :D

[ZuljinRaynor]

PCWii FTW.

[Mr.Fibbles]

unless DNF requires DX10, I won't be "upgrading" to vista anytime soon. Maybe if Fallout 3 or Postal 3 do. but definitely if DNF does.
however, I will be upgrading my PC. but not until this summer when money is something I have.

[Llama Gibbz]

I would consider a significant upgrade the mother board.

I usually add 1-2 drives and sometime 2 different vid cards until i need a cpu upgrade.
Which by then i need a new mobo also(every 2-3 years)

If they went the mobo route of what is significant,i can deal with that.
By that time ill have 5-6 years out of a M$ license and by that time a new better op system will be out.;)

PC gaming was never a cheap hobby.:p

[avatar_58]

Maybe if Fallout 3 .

You are of course assuming Fallout 3 is going to be any good.

[0marTheZealot]

XP makes you do those things avatar? I've gone through 3 motherboard changes and I never had to do anything other a new installation + cdkey.

[Scotty]

Activation status for retail versions of Windows XP is dropped from the MPA servers after 120 days. If you're using a retail version, and go at least 4 months between mainboard changes, this would explain why you've never had trouble activating.

OEM versions of Windows XP not locked to a hardware identifier are more likely to force telephone reactivation with a customer service rep. A few ppl have posted about that here, but as far as I know, they were all activated.

Someone that worked in the licensing division of MS had posted on the MS newsgroups during the Windows XP beta/RC cycle that MS reserved the right to deny such activations. I'd imagine they ran into trouble with this, as numerous sites sell OEM copies of Windows XP with minor pieces of hardware such as mice and power cables that wouldn't show up in the activation string that MPA creates.

[8IronBob]

Old news, case closed, next case... :rollseyes:

[Steve]

XP makes you do those things avatar? I've gone through 3 motherboard changes and I never had to do anything other a new installation + cdkey.

I had to.