Windows Vista Thread

[Joe Siegler]

I've got Vista Business installed on my machine here at 3DR. There's a couple of cool things. A few crappy things, too - but that's to be expected with anything. So far, nothing has totally NOT worked, so that's cool.

However, there's three icons in my tray I can't figure out how to make disappear. Check the screenshot.

http://img74.imageshack.us/img74/2320/desktopvistajv4.th.png (http://img74.imageshack.us/my.php?image=desktopvistajv4.png)

They're the three ones to the immediate left of the clock.

One is obvious, the sound one. The place you used to be able to turn that icon off in XP no longer exists.

Second is the one that tells me I'm connected to my local LAN here at 3DR. Uh, thanks Windows - I know that. How do I get rid of the icon?

The other is for Windows Sidebar. If I'm using it, I can't find a way to turn off the tray icon. I'm using one item, that's the analog clock image you see in the screen capture.

Anyone using Vista know how to take care of this?

Also, I shouldn't have to point this out, but apparently I must. THIS IS NOT A LINUX THREAD. Discussions on distros on Linux, or Linux anyway need to be in a Linux thread. I'm really sick and tired of all the Windows threads that are corrupted by Linux folks going "Windows Sux! Linux rules" - or some variant of that, no matter how it's dressed. Want to talk aout Vista? Fine. Talk about Linux elsewhere. PLEASE. Thank you.

[Joe Siegler]

Just found how to get rid of volume and network. Right click on the big windows logo in the lower left corner (former start button), click properties. It's in the "Notification Area" tab.

Now to hide the sidebar icon.

[avatar_58]

I have Vista Home Premium and so far it's working pretty good. Takes a little to get used to, trying to "relearn" where everything is. Sometimes when you need a setting changed you think "Know where the hell did they move this?".

I think I got rid of the sidebar icon, but my mind is drawing a blank. I'll check once I get home.

[Phayzon]

I'm not sure how to get rid of the sidebar tray icon. Doesnt bother me so I just let it be.

On my desktop I have a copy of Vista Ultimate x64 running and no real problems so far. Drivers and all are fine. Games run same as they did in XP, with the exception of jfDuke/EDuke32 chopping sound. Originally the inability to disable ClearType bothered me but I got used to it. Vista doesnt constantly whore resources or slow your system to a crawl, contrary to popular belief. In fact Vista is running much better than XP ever did on this system. Loss of 16bit compatibility hasnt been a problem yet, should any problems arise DOSbox or VirtualPC should help a lot.

I just bought a new laptop with Vista Home Premium on it. No problems here either, other than the mouse sucks but thats a hardware issue and has nothing to do with Vista. Vista seems to be more notebook-friendly than XP was but I cant quite put my finger on why that is exactly. On a side not I find it odd that this PC has a 64bit CPU but still came with 32bit Vista. :confused:

Overall I am very happy with Vista, and have no regrets going 64bit with my desktop. It will take a bit of a learning curve though ;) One feature I greatly miss is Right-clicking the desktop and selecting 'Properties' to change my screensaver, wallpaper, etc. Thats gone now :(

[peoplessi]

I am going to get Vista Business too later this year, when the drivers mature a bit more.

Joe, are you running 32-bit version or 64-bit version? My guess is 32-bit? How would you compare it to XP(if you have used it) in terms of speed, is Vista more sluggish or?

[8IronBob]

Upon using Ultimate Edition, I'd have to say... You probably get far more than you would ever bargain for in this edition of Vista. Of course, it's only the 32-bit edition, but boy oh boy, it's worth the $200 OEM price tag for this one. Along with Ubuntu Edgy Eft, Vista Ultimate has virtualization privileges that I just love. Sorry if I sound like an infomercial, but wow... I never thought that Vista was gonna do for me what it's doing now.

[Delta]

I've been using Vista Home Premium for a few weeks. So far, I'm having a pretty good time with it. My only problem with it is the "beta-quality" drivers. Everything works, but there might be some bugs here and there, doesn't perform up to par with XP, etc. It's still perfectly usable, at least for me.

As for performance, it seems pretty responsive, maybe even more so than XP. By that, I mean that a window will pop up very quickly after I click something, like say "Computer" in the start menu to open an explorer window.

General desktop performance is pretty good, but not completely at XP-level. If I have Aero Glass enabled, web browsers appear to scroll a little less smoothly. If Glass is disabled, it's as smooth as XP. Not too annoying though. Window resizing is also a little slow at times. Everything else, like window dragging, minimizing/maximizing, video playback, etc, are all very smooth.

Gaming performance is also not quite at XP-level, although I've only tested Prey so far. Out of the box (and after patching with 1.3), Prey doesn't run on Vista. Following the advice from another thread, extracting gamex86.dll from one of the .pak files into the 'base' folder seems to do the trick. On my video card, Prey is still perfectly playable on Vista, but not as fast as it was on XP. I don't have any fps numbers to give, though.

Application compatibility seems fairly good as well from what I've tried so far. IRC client, Winamp, Trillian, Firefox, Google Earth, various other things work more or less perfectly. Only issues I've had are with Vista's User Account Control, where Firefox can't be set as the default browser, Winamp may have trouble setting file associations after installation, things like that. Most of those issues can be worked around by right-clicking and running them as Administrator, changing their settings, then running normally from there.

Overall, I've had a nice time with Vista, but it's suffering from much of the same problems XP had when it was first released. Most practical users will probably wait until SP1 or buy a computer with Vista on it.

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

The other is for Windows Sidebar. If I'm using it, I can't find a way to turn off the tray icon.

Right Click on TaskBar -> Properties -> Click Notification Area Tab -> Customize -> Windows SideBar Hide...
done.

I dig the folder on your desktop.

[avatar_58]

Well I found one thing I'm not happy with. It appears the 'unloading' of Aero only occurs in some games and not others. For games that it doesn't the colour and overall peformance slows to a crawl. The solution is to go in the compatibility options of the shortcut and click "disable themes" and all is well.

I've had to do this for both DOSBox and Zdaemon so far, so my guess is that as long as the game uses a recent directx it ought to be fine.

EDIT - Btw, how does one go about setting Firefox as the default in Vista? It seems to switch back to IE7 no matter what. I had to manually set HTML/HTM and other web formates to Firefox. Links still open in IE7 :(

[Delta]

EDIT - Btw, how does one go about setting Firefox as the default in Vista? It seems to switch back to IE7 no matter what. I had to manually set HTML/HTM and other web formates to Firefox. Links still open in IE7 :(

For now, you have to do some manual registry hacking to change the browser that links open in. Run regedit and navigate to this key:

HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Windows\Shell \Associations\UrlAssociations

You'll find associations for various protocols there. For example, if you want HTTP links to open with Firefox, go to:

HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Windows\Shell \Associations\UrlAssociations\http\UserChoice

and change the Progid entry to "Firefox.Url" (no quotes)

[mon2908]

Also, I shouldn't have to point this out, but apparently I must. THIS IS NOT A LINUX THREAD. Discussions on distros on Linux, or Linux anyway need to be in a Linux thread. I'm really sick and tired of all the Windows threads that are corrupted by Linux folks going "Windows Sux! Linux rules" - or some variant of that, no matter how it's dressed. Want to talk aout Vista? Fine. Talk about Linux elsewhere. PLEASE. Thank you.

Damn it, that really hurts. Nevermind so.

There existed a tools from the Microsoft Powertoys. It's name is 'TweakUI' it was good enough to tweak nearly everything in any Windows version I used so far. You know everything you have to tweak under one control panel.

I heard that their exists something similar for Vista but this time it does not look like it is from Microsoft, so use it on your own risk. Here is the link http://www.totalidea.com/content/tweakvi/tweakvi-index.html

[Joe Siegler]

Right Click on TaskBar -> Properties -> Click Notification Area Tab -> Customize -> Windows SideBar Hide...
done.

I dig the folder on your desktop.

But now I have an arrow for "hidden icons". No. That's just the same as having the icon. I had that hidden option turned off. You misunderstand. I don't want to HIDE the icon, I want to GET RID OF IT.

[avatar_58]

But now I have an arrow for "hidden icons". No. That's just the same as having the icon. I had that hidden option turned off. You misunderstand. I don't want to HIDE the icon, I want to GET RID OF IT.

I tried to find a way but it wouldn't leave until I closed it. I think the only solution is a registry key, but I wouldn't know where.

[8IronBob]

One of the Ultimate Edition Extras that I got, sorry to say Joe, is Texas Hold 'Em, which seems to be an exclusive download for the Ultimate package. Then again, if you got one for the X360, then I guess it's not TOO bad.

[avatar_58]

You know that bothers me - why are there home elements locked to the Ultimate edition? Why would games and things like Dreamscene be locked? I assumed Ultimate would be like 'Pro' for Xp, with more technical and admin minded apps.

It seems like they are trying to push both business AND home users to Ultimate, which in my opinion is a very demented idea.

[8IronBob]

Yeah, but when you consider that the OEM version is $200, vs. a full-blown retail for twice that, then you bargain out at the end.

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

Well I would call the "<" icon less obtrusive than the sidebar icon.

[avatar_58]

Well I would call the "<" icon less obtrusive than the sidebar icon.

Well no, because with that behavior enabled other icons will hide without use. You'd have to enter the taskbar customize menu and set every new icon to "show". After awhile that would get on your nerves.

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

What are you talking about?

He only has one icon, the windows sidebar icon, thats the only thing thats 'hiding.'

Also you do not have to go into the menu each time.. you just CLICK the arrow and your 'hidden' icons appear.

I really dont get what you are talking about.

[avatar_58]

From what I've checked all new icons are set to "hide when inactive". That means if I start Limewire and minimize it, it hides after a few minutes. To stop it, I have to go into the customize menu and set it to always "show". I don't want all my resident programs hiding under the arrow just to remove the sidebar.

I personally want to see what programs are running at all times, but like Joe I don't see the sidebar as nessesary considering you can visually see it running. However bending everything over backwards just to hide one icon seems rather counter-intuitive.

[Llama Gibbz]

Nevermind me.
I saw this and thought id add it to a vista thread.

4 gigs of ram is optimal for vista (http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9011523)

[Yatta]

Nevermind me.
I saw this and thought id add it to a vista thread.

4 gigs of ram is optimal for vista (http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9011523)
2 Gigs is just fine. Too much ram can slow down your system, you know. :p

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

I get by with a gig.

[8IronBob]

I have 1.5 GB DDR2 RAM and a 1.86 Pentium-M, and seems to run Vista Ultimate smoothly without too many hiccups, so if it can run fine on this, it can run on ANY PC configuration from within the past year or so...

[avatar_58]

Nevermind me.
I saw this and thought id add it to a vista thread.

4 gigs of ram is optimal for vista (http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9011523)

What is considered "optimal"? I'm running all the aero bells and whistles +the sidebar + transparency with only 2 gigs and it's running as smooth as butter.

[Phayzon]

What is considered "optimal"? I'm running all the aero bells and whistles +the sidebar + transparency with only 2 gigs and it's running as smooth as butter.

Same here. And on a 1GB notebook as well.

My dad gets by with 512MB on his laptop :o
(No Aero, thanks to shitty intel graphics)

[Addicted Gamer]

Top 5ive Gadgets You Shouldn't Buy (Vista got his place, too):
http://money.aol.com/top5/general/gadgets

--

but yeah, let's wait for the first SP and let's see; but i do think Vista is another ME that was in production a bit long time tho.

[Odin]

but yeah, let's wait for the first SP and let's see; but i do think Vista is another ME that was in production a bit long time tho.

I wouldn't say Vista is another ME. Sure, it has issues, but they're definately not as bad as ME, and I have faith that Microsoft will tie the loose knots in the SPs.

[avatar_58]

but yeah, let's wait for the first SP and let's see; but i do think Vista is another ME that was in production a bit long time tho.

ME was an offshoot of the 9x line. Vista is not an offshoot of XP. ME was abandoned very quickly and was only installed on the occasional PC. Vista is already replacing XP as the default install for new desktops and laptops. ME ran like shit and included nothing new. Vista runs smoothly and includes many new features.

Vista isn't ME. ME failed miserabley because it was a terrible product and 2000 was a much better choice. Then XP came and took over. I see Vista as a leap similar to 3.11 -> 95 and -> XP. Not something like 98 or ME which just rehashed the old with a few tweaks.

[sirlemonhead]

Anyone here dual booting Vista with XP?

Any issues accessing files on the XP partition? I'm finding i'm getting "access denied" or permission issues with a lot of files on my XP partition :confused:

[Delta]

If those files you're trying to access are within "Documents and Settings", it's probably because... you don't have permission. When you're logged into Vista, it's like a separate user account from your XP account. Thus, you will be locked out.

There's a way to claim ownership/permissions of files and folders, but then you may not be able to access them in XP anymore, but can in Vista. So another solution would be to just copy/move your files elsewhere.

[8IronBob]

Any chance that we'll see SP1 before the holidays? I may probably hold off on building a gaming rig prior to that release. I want to see how well the SP1 stability and speed are before trying out a nice configuration...

[sirlemonhead]

If those files you're trying to access are within "Documents and Settings", it's probably because... you don't have permission. When you're logged into Vista, it's like a separate user account from your XP account. Thus, you will be locked out.

There's a way to claim ownership/permissions of files and folders, but then you may not be able to access them in XP anymore, but can in Vista. So another solution would be to just copy/move your files elsewhere.

Yeah I was able to get into My Documents no bother, but there's other os unrelated folders with files in them that I cant access :\ Ah well..

[Phayzon]

Anyone here dual booting Vista with XP?

Any issues accessing files on the XP partition? I'm finding i'm getting "access denied" or permission issues with a lot of files on my XP partition :confused:

I do have a PC dual booting Vista and XP Pro, but a)I dont use it much and b) theres nothing installed on it anyway. So I cant really help you, sorry.

[Delta]

The Firefox default browser issue appears to be fixed with today's update to Firefox 2.0.0.2 (and 1.5.0.10).

[Hudson]

I wouldn't say Vista is another ME. Sure, it has issues, but they're definately not as bad as ME, and I have faith that Microsoft will tie the loose knots in the SPs.

Considering it doesn't offer much more than XP, nor does it give you anything "must have" features, and includes a ton of hassles, incompatibilities and software problems. Yeah I would call it WinME Second Edition.

I really hope that SP1 fixes things, I do.. however at it's present state it's a mess and i'm discouraging everyone I know and converse with to avoid it like the plague.

[Delta]

XP had a ton of hassles, incompatibilities, and software problems upon its release as well. It didn't offer any must-have features over 98/ME either. But now here we are, with most computers running XP. It was more of an evolutionary upgrade. And Vista is no different.

Many of the issues Vista is facing is a result of the software makers and vendors lagging behind in updating software and drivers. I don't see how Vista (or Microsoft) is at fault for that.

Edit: Also, everyone's experience with Vista in its present state will be different. Believe it or not, not everyone is having problems with Vista. It depends on what apps and hardware you have.

[Mblackwell]

XP had a ton of hassles, incompatibilities, and software problems upon its release as well. It didn't offer any must-have features over 98/ME either.

How about system stability, security, a better filesystem, and proper memory management?

[peoplessi]

How about system stability, security, a better filesystem, and proper memory management?

Yes, 64-bit is really secure compared to XP, and memory management is suberb on both. First time it surpasses the linux way of handling memory.

I just have to wait a while to get all the drivers to mature before switching to Vista. BUT I strongly disagree on MS policy on Vista pricing, just admire the differences between EU and USA.

Vista Ultimate full:
EU(finland) (507,90e)
USA ($379,99 = 292,30e + taxes 22% = 356,60e. Euro is about 1,3 dollars)

Vista Home Premium:
EU(finland)(299,90e)
USA ($227,99 = 175,40e + taxes 22% = 214e. Euro is about 1,3 dollars)

[Delta]

How about system stability, security, a better filesystem, and proper memory management?
I was speaking more towards what people perceived XP as, not necessarily what it actually had. And that seems to be happening with Vista.

Many people (most?) don't see what benefits Vista provides over XP. They just see it as "XP SP3" or just XP with a new skin. They're ignoring all the core changes and new APIs.

Of course, gamers don't have much reason to upgrade yet. But they won't have a choice once good DX10 games start coming out.

[Jiminator]

lol, i think those massive EU fines were charged to the Microsoft EU division, thus the massive price bump.

[Mblackwell]

Yes, 64-bit is really secure compared to XP, and memory management is suberb on both. First time it surpasses the linux way of handling memory.


Are you talking about Vista? Because you've gotta be ****ing kidding me....

[Mblackwell]

I was speaking more towards what people perceived XP as, not necessarily what it actually had. And that seems to be happening with Vista.

Many people (most?) don't see what benefits Vista provides over XP. They just see it as "XP SP3" or just XP with a new skin. They're ignoring all the core changes and new APIs.

Of course, gamers don't have much reason to upgrade yet. But they won't have a choice once good DX10 games start coming out.

I was talking 98 to XP, as far as Vista goes I agree :).

[alpha400]

BUT I strongly disagree on MS policy on Vista pricing, just admire the differences between EU and USA.

Vista Ultimate full:
EU(finland) (507,90e)
USA ($379,99 = 292,30e + taxes 22% = 356,60e. Euro is about 1,3 dollars)

Vista Home Premium:
EU(finland)(299,90e)
USA ($227,99 = 175,40e + taxes 22% = 214e. Euro is about 1,3 dollars)

Ha! thats funny..! and then they wonder why everyone here warez windows...:doh:

[peoplessi]

Are you talking about Vista? Because you've gotta be ****ing kidding me....

Yes, that is what I am talking of. Vista uses the memory more efficiently, it reserves the whole amount, and does what is needed for: really fast place to read from. It seems that Vista would use it badly, but that is not the case, it has heuristics to analyze which programs are more often used and load them in to the memory, and when you launch something that requires more memory, it will dump the unneeded from the memoryspace at that time. This is something that Linux has, but it doesn't have heuristics to analyze and so for make it even more effective. And 64-bit Vista is secure, more secure than XP.

[Hudson]

Ha! thats funny..! and then they wonder why everyone here warez windows...:doh:

Warez windows? Nah, I don't want Vista even if it was free.

[motionblur]

Ever checked pricing differences for 3DS Max?
EU version is at 4.930€ while the US version is in a price range of ~2650€.
Or expressed in US$: about 6475$ for the European version compared to 3500$ for the US version. THAT'S a difference.
Vista ... pft. No need to upgrade right now. Maybe I skip Vista altogether and buy only the next version.
Thinking about it ... are there even Updates available from XP to Vista?

[Jiminator]

64 bit being more secure is only the same type of "more secureness" that apple boasts, ie: not enough people run the OS to make it a wothwhile target for the virus writers.

[Mblackwell]

Yes, that is what I am talking of. Vista uses the memory more efficiently, it reserves the whole amount, and does what is needed for: really fast place to read from. It seems that Vista would use it badly, but that is not the case, it has heuristics to analyze which programs are more often used and load them in to the memory, and when you launch something that requires more memory, it will dump the unneeded from the memoryspace at that time. This is something that Linux has, but it doesn't have heuristics to analyze and so for make it even more effective.


Uh...

*shakes head*

[peoplessi]

Ever checked pricing differences for 3DS Max?
EU version is at 4.930€ while the US version is in a price range of ~2650€.
Or expressed in US$: about 6475$ for the European version compared to 3500$ for the US version. THAT'S a difference.
Vista ... pft. No need to upgrade right now. Maybe I skip Vista altogether and buy only the next version.
Thinking about it ... are there even Updates available from XP to Vista?

Haven't even dared :) Then again, I do not use 3D Studio Max ;) Those price differences can't really be explained simply by taxes, localization(rarely there is any).

[IHerman]

I'm think going for the XP Media Center OEM with the Vista Coupon with my new system. That way I can start using Vista whenever the hell I want and use XP in the meantime.

[8IronBob]

Hmm, nice plan. I've got Vista Ultimate and XP OEM myself. However, I decided to triple boot with the whole Ubuntu desktop package. That way I have Vista/XP on the notebook itself, and Linux on my external HDD. Didn't get that internal HDD upgrade for nothing.

[avatar_58]

So having ditched Vista I have a few thoughts -

*UI is improved, much better than XP. Once you get passed the initial "why did they move this" phase it starts to actually be intuitive. I even grew to like the start menu.

*Effects are cool and don't affect performance. Whether running them on or off during games or programs it doesn't matter, even a 7600 can do it max. So any info to the contrary is FUD

*Indexing was great, searching was instant in the start menu field. This was on a slow 4200RPM hardrive and I was pulling up files instantly. A great improvement over the old style.

*Drivers are terrible. Outright terrible. The Nvidia panel was missing options, the sound driver was very limited for my onboard compared to it's XP counterpart and performance was not 100%. Vista was still damn fast, but I imagine with proper drivers it would be at least 50% more responsive and games would be perfect.

*Gaming - perhaps due to the drivers Vista is pointless to game on. All DX9 games would stall and have that slow motion problem I described in my other thread. I want to blame my laptop's hardware, but with XP it's as fast as my Desktop. Sorry but it's either Vista itself, or the drivers.

*Video - Again, maybe it's the drivers, but the video quality seemed pretty bad. It looked stretched and would skip every so often. Checking media player it seemed like hardware support was not available. Yet on the same card and driver version it works in XP. Again, hard to blame Vista without knowing if Nvidia has their act together. The odd thing was old games like System Shock 2 and Half-life 1 were flawless. Hell SS2 worked WITHOUT the XP patch!


Personally I think Toshiba has no right to sell laptops with Vista installed yet. Some of the drivers weren't even signed. How is this even allowed? Why bother sticking a 7600 GO into a laptop if you can't run games? Very poor judgement on their part, especially considering it works 100% in XP.

I've no doubt in my mind that in 2-3 years time I'll be running Vista as my main O/S, but only assuming the drivers catch up and DX 10 games are readily available.


EDIT - And yes - the gaming frontend works. :) It even found boxart and info for games as old as System Shock 2, NOLF and Baldur's Gate. Though it seems to hate steam, as it lists them all as "Counter-strike" and will not launch until you manually edit the shortcut via the registry. Why they don't allow manual edits via the frontend is beyond me.

[Phait]

Though it seems to hate steam, as it lists them all as "Counter-strike" and will not launch until you manually edit the shortcut via the registry. Why they don't allow manual edits via the frontend is beyond me.

HAHA! :D

[Mblackwell]

So having ditched Vista I have a few thoughts -

*UI is improved, much better than XP. Once you get passed the initial "why did they move this" phase it starts to actually be intuitive. I even grew to like the start menu.

*Effects are cool and don't affect performance. Whether running them on or off during games or programs it doesn't matter, even a 7600 can do it max. So any info to the contrary is FUD

*Indexing was great, searching was instant in the start menu field. This was on a slow 4200RPM hardrive and I was pulling up files instantly. A great improvement over the old style.

*Drivers are terrible. Outright terrible. The Nvidia panel was missing options, the sound driver was very limited for my onboard compared to it's XP counterpart and performance was not 100%. Vista was still damn fast, but I imagine with proper drivers it would be at least 50% more responsive and games would be perfect.

*Gaming - perhaps due to the drivers Vista is pointless to game on. All DX9 games would stall and have that slow motion problem I described in my other thread. I want to blame my laptop's hardware, but with XP it's as fast as my Desktop. Sorry but it's either Vista itself, or the drivers.

*Video - Again, maybe it's the drivers, but the video quality seemed pretty bad. It looked stretched and would skip every so often. Checking media player it seemed like hardware support was not available. Yet on the same card and driver version it works in XP. Again, hard to blame Vista without knowing if Nvidia has their act together. The odd thing was old games like System Shock 2 and Half-life 1 were flawless. Hell SS2 worked WITHOUT the XP patch!


Personally I think Toshiba has no right to sell laptops with Vista installed yet. Some of the drivers weren't even signed. How is this even allowed? Why bother sticking a 7600 GO into a laptop if you can't run games? Very poor judgement on their part, especially considering it works 100% in XP.

I've no doubt in my mind that in 2-3 years time I'll be running Vista as my main O/S, but only assuming the drivers catch up and DX 10 games are readily available.


EDIT - And yes - the gaming frontend works. :) It even found boxart and info for games as old as System Shock 2, NOLF and Baldur's Gate. Though it seems to hate steam, as it lists them all as "Counter-strike" and will not launch until you manually edit the shortcut via the registry. Why they don't allow manual edits via the frontend is beyond me.

Sorry for asking but what are the specs on that laptop, and what was the price? I'm somewhat in the market.

[Steve]

I'm getting Vista Ultimate next week for $350 (OEM). Building a rig for Crysis, etc. I'll be purchasing Windows Live OneCare ($90) tonight. I really am a sucker when it comes to new gadgets\operating system\software stuff. That, and I enjoyed using Vista.

Although I'm not sure what processor to go with as I've always built AMD rigs.

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

I use steam fine in Vista. Games and video work just as well.

[8IronBob]

Haven't had any trouble with any sports games, or GTA VC on here, so I don't see what the trouble would be otherwise.

[Steve]

I've had trouble running Sims 2 - Which my GF isn't too happy about

[peoplessi]

So having ditched Vista I have a few thoughts -
*Drivers are terrible. Outright terrible. The Nvidia panel was missing options, the sound driver was very limited for my onboard compared to it's XP counterpart and performance was not 100%. Vista was still damn fast, but I imagine with proper drivers it would be at least 50% more responsive and games would be perfect.

*Gaming - perhaps due to the drivers Vista is pointless to game on. All DX9 games would stall and have that slow motion problem I described in my other thread. I want to blame my laptop's hardware, but with XP it's as fast as my Desktop. Sorry but it's either Vista itself, or the drivers.

The drivers, one keyword to remember, they aren't mature yet. nVidia currently has worse drivers in Vista than ATI.

[avatar_58]

Sorry for asking but what are the specs on that laptop, and what was the price? I'm somewhat in the market.

http://www.futureshop.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?logon=&langid=EN&sku_id=0665000FS10084216&catid=22496 (Canadian funds of course) It runs FEAR on near-max settings with great framerates in XP.

Steve - the Sims 2 was one game that worked 100% for me in Vista. :o I'm not sure what to say.

Peoplessi - Yeah thats my point. Vista is nice, but not right now. I say wait till the hardware folks get their act together and get the correct drivers out there.

[Steve]

Steve - the Sims 2 was one game that worked 100% for me in Vista. I'm not sure what to say.
I was using the first public test of vista. I forgot to mention that... :). Anyway, I have sold my Xbox 360 and going to order Vista today with a new case and hard drive (here's the case: http://www.nzxt.com/products/trinity/ ). I ordered onecare last night.

[Phait]

http://www.nzxt.com/products/trinity/ ). I ordered onecare last night.

Eww half their cases look like Transformers. Although this one looks nice/different:

http://www.nzxt.com/image/2/10/

[Steve]

Eww half their cases look like Transformers. Although this one looks nice/different:

http://www.nzxt.com/image/2/10/

I like 'em... I have three of their case line already. Although the one you pointed out reminds me of a mini fridge for some reason :D

[Mblackwell]

http://www.futureshop.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?logon=&langid=EN&sku_id=0665000FS10084216&catid=22496 (Canadian funds of course) It runs FEAR on near-max settings with great framerates in XP.

Thanks. I'll have to do some price comparison and look around at American shops of course. But it's good to know. I'd wipe the HDD and put XP on it (and maybe a copy of something like Ubuntu Studio when it releases), and probably use it alongside my desktop (which uses Linux) to play games.

My only question about that particular laptop though is what is the native resolution? I don't see it listed.

[avatar_58]

My only question about that particular laptop though is what is the native resolution? I don't see it listed.

1440x900. I love it. Unfortunately of course you'll probably not get FEAR running at that resolution unless you drop down some details. I just run it in 1024x768 and it scaled nicely enough. I've been using a 1280x1024 LCD for so long that the scaling no longer bothers me unless it's truly terrible.

I love playing Half-life 2 in 1440 native though.

I should try Oblivion on here for fun, since it does have some dual-core tweaks I can enable. You never know. I should also run 3DMark on both this and my desktop to get a better idea of how the hardware compares. I mean if my CPU can perform equally in dosbox on ONE core, shouldn't that mean with dual core enabled games it's faster? I know the video isn't, but the CPU I'm unsure.

[8IronBob]

Thanks. I'll have to do some price comparison and look around at American shops of course. But it's good to know. I'd wipe the HDD and put XP on it (and maybe a copy of something like Ubuntu Studio when it releases), and probably use it alongside my desktop (which uses Linux) to play games.

My only question about that particular laptop though is what is the native resolution? I don't see it listed.


Either that, or see what Feisty Fawn offers, that should be due out right around Easter, IIRC.

[Mblackwell]

Ubuntu Studio is going to use Feisty as a base.

http://ubuntustudio.org

Anyway, shouldn't talk about that much more in this thread ;).

[Steve]

My copy Vista Ultimate and onecare will be here in three or so days. I'll test it on one my machines... however, the actual machine the OS will be registered to will not be ready for months.

[peoplessi]

Ubuntu Studio is going to use Feisty as a base.

http://ubuntustudio.org

Anyway, shouldn't talk about that much more in this thread ;).

Yeah, you shouldn't, but if you insist, make a new thread :) I am really excited about the upcoming Feisty Fawn, as Edgy Eft is bit borked for me. First of all I had to clean up the install by hand afterwards, not really fun to do. USB is something that they can't really do right, USB support is shut down before I can press enter to reboot the machine = nice. Too bad modo isn't for Linux, maya/xsi yes, but they aren't as fluent as modo 202 is(ok modo hasn't animation, fluid, fur etc.. yet, but they are coming). Maya is bit like Lightwave, both haven't really revised their UI's in a long time.

[Hudson]

So what are Vista sales figure like?

Last I heard it was pretty bad because everyone was just going to stick with XP for a while.

[Steve]

So what are Vista sales figure like?

Last I heard it was pretty bad because everyone was just going to stick with XP for a while.

A lot of drivers are in the beta stage - that would be a reason. A lot people are waiting for SP1 so another reason :) So far the motherboard I'm purchasing don't have beta drivers so I'm fine there... however Nvidia still haven't got out the beta stage.

WinXP was the same at launch.

[Scotty]

I remember when XP first shipped that nVidia's drivers for XP were 30% slower than their drivers for 98/Me... :eek:

I've got so much data now (465 GB main disk, 148 GB full; 465 GB backup disk, 204 GB full, and it's only two weeks into the month, and a 286 GB external disk that's pretty much full) that backing up before migrating to Vista will be a major undertaking. If I didn't have so much data, I probably would've showed up at the midnight sale at CompUSA when Vista first shipped.

The fact that Windows Backup/NT Backup was abandoned sort of pissed me off (the Vista backup tools (at least as of RC1/RC2) blow, in my opinion), but at least there is now a tool that will allow me to read an NT Backup file into Vista. Still no sign of a Vista-compatible version of Norton Ghost, though. Fortunately there are other imaging tools that are Vista-compatible, but that means having to take time to test them out and get used to how they work.

I didn't have much luck with Vista Beta 2, but Vista RC1 and RC2 seemed to run decently.

Windows Mail (replaces Outlook Express, and as I read newsgroups, it's essential that this works) seemed unstable/buggy in RC1/RC2, but I haven't had a chance to run Vista RTM to see if this has been fixed. If it isn't fixed, hopefully it will be at the top of the list for Vista SP1.

WMP 11 was another trouble area, particularly when I upgraded Vista over XP. I ended up with 2-3 entries in the Library for each track. :doh:

The fact it didn't appear to be possible to do a truly clean install with an upgrade key also made me hold off, but it turns out there is a way to dodge that and do nearly a clean install, but it means installing Vista twice in a row. :doh:

[Steve]

I remember when XP first shipped that nVidia's drivers for XP were 30% slower than their drivers for 98/Me...
I remember that. I also remember that most of the members here would not go to XP because of drivers, because it "sucked" and DOS games wouldn't work...

Funny stuff ;) :)

[Steve]

My copy of ultimate just arrived. I'm going to test it out on a machine but I somehow doubt it's going to work. If it doesn't I have to wait until my new rig is built.

[IHerman]

I've ordered XP Media Center with a coupon. A colleague of mine sent his coupon about three weeks ago, still no Vista.

That's going to be a problem. I'm getting a new PC with XP, which after a couple of weeks I have to (or will) wipe clean again for Vista. So I'm not going to bother installing everything, that gives me a couple of weeks with a crippled PC.

[Foxy]

My copy of ultimate just arrived. I'm going to test it out on a machine but I somehow doubt it's going to work. If it doesn't I have to wait until my new rig is built.

Isn't Vista Reaaaally picky about reactivation?

[IHerman]

The OEM is, but the normal version shouldn't cause too much problems.

[Steve]

So far so good. My old computer has no problems running vista ultimate at all. I have 30 days until it shuts off which is okay as I'm just testing it. However, the new computer I'm building for this copy of vista is going to have to have a fast hard drive, that's for sure.

[Steve]

Isn't Vista Reaaaally picky about reactivation?

I'm not going to activate it on the machine it's currently installed on - I'm just testing out Vista. I will activate it on another machine (which I'm currently building)

[Scotty]

Did you disable the 3 day automatic activation? I forgot to do that once during the beta/RC phase, but back then they were allowing 10 activations, so it wasn't a biggie.

[Steve]

Did you disable the 3 day automatic activation? I forgot to do that once during the beta/RC phase, but back then they were allowing 10 activations, so it wasn't a biggie.
Heck, how do I do that? There's so many options and a lot has been changed.

[Scotty]

Does Vista still have a system overview window that pops up at logon? I think the link to disable automatic activation was in there. If you already turned off that window at logon, you may have to find it somewhere in Control Panel.

I haven't run Vista since November though, and even then only RC1 and RC2, so this may have changed for RTM.

The safest way to avoid accidental activation is to not input a product key at all during initial setup. The only catch with that is that the key may not match the license if the wrong option is chosen at setup. For example, if someone with a Home Premium key doesn't input the key during setup, selects the Ultimate option for install, and then tries to input the Home Premium key 30 days later, the system will go into Reduced Functionality mode, and the user will have to do a clean install of Home Premium.

As you bought Ultimate, this should be a non-issue for you, but could be an issue for anyone that later reads this thread.

[Steve]

I seem to be fine, I found some option in control panel. Since this is just a test machine I'm not worried.

However there's so many damn options. I've had a look at the new media centre and I'm not a fan. Sure, it looks good but adding videos is a bitch and I have no idea how to add games\apps to it. I also had to install a front end to even play my DVD collection that's on the hard drive. Not good. My MCE remote now has all the buttons working but I'm sticking with meedio for my home threatre software. It's slick but I'd like it to be easier to add stuff and play my ripped DVD collection (.ifo files)

[IHerman]

I've recently installed MediaPortal (http://www.team-mediaportal.com/)

Looks really good and does pretty much everything. The only issue I have right now is that I want it to maximize on a secondary monitor, which it doesn't. Making this the main monitor fix this, but I'd rather just keep my monitor settings the same.

[Steve]

I've recently installed MediaPortal (http://www.team-mediaportal.com/)

Looks really good and does pretty much everything. The only issue I have right now is that I want it to maximize on a secondary monitor, which it doesn't. Making this the main monitor fix this, but I'd rather just keep my monitor settings the same.
I had that but moved to meedio. Shame that Vista media centre isn't user friendly to add stuff. Heck, do you know what you have to do to add an external app? Well it's pathetic, I tell you that.

Looks pretty, runs fast, my remote now works properly but it's NOT friendly to use at all. This is the only thing I'm not happy about when it comes to vista. The rest is great.

[Steve]

Found a way to get vista media centre to play ripped DVDs. Pretty easy. All you have to do is edit one line in the registry. Funny how all these confusing frontends are made and documention that is just patheticly written when all you have to do is this:

1.
Enable DVD library: Load up regedit.exe and find this key: [HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Windows\Curre ntVersion\Media Center\Settings\DvdSettings]. Double click on it and change "ShowGallery"="Play" to "ShowGallery"="Gallery".

2.

Run Vista Media Centre
Go to 'DVD library'.
press ctrl+D
add movies
Add folder to watch
add folder on this computer
Browse to a folder containing a backed up copy of your DVD.
Press ENTER on the folder you would like to add that has the main .ifo file - make sure it has a tick next to it


What's with all these complicated guides? I don't understand! Why do people download .mymovies front end when this is faster and less complicated? This works like a charm. Here's what mine looks like:
http://img363.imageshack.us/img363/6882/vistadvdskq3.th.jpg (http://img363.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vistadvdskq3.jpg)

[Phait]

That is kinda cool.. wonder if MCE is worth buying for a kiosk type/movie/music server? I'm not familiar with it's features.

[avatar_58]

I liked it, but frankly I don't have harddrive full of rips so it wouldn't get much use. The game front end could also be pretty nice, but if you think Media Centre isn't user friendly don't even touch that thing. Even when editing the registry it doesn't play nice.

[IHerman]

There are opensource packages out there that might be better for suck things.


Now I ordered a XP MCE with a Vista Coupon. A friend of mine did the same, sent in the coupon and has been waiting for 7 weeks now, still no Vista.

Is there anyone here who did the same? How long does it take?

[Steve]

I liked it, but frankly I don't have harddrive full of rips so it wouldn't get much use. The game front end could also be pretty nice, but if you think Media Centre isn't user friendly don't even touch that thing. Even when editing the registry it doesn't play nice.

The game front end for Vista MC is horrid just like the DVD front end. I've yet to figure out how to add games to the list but I'm getting closer. Once I've figured that out I'm moving to VMC. It is nice to use once it's up and running but MS could have made it more user friendly.

[Steve]

That is kinda cool.. wonder if MCE is worth buying for a kiosk type/movie/music server? I'm not familiar with it's features.

The Vista version of media centre is better compared to the 2005 version. You'd have to completely move to vista if you want it which a lot of people don't seem too keen on.

[Phait]

Nah, wouldn't spend $300 just to have some eye-candy interface for 2 roles.

[Steve]

Nah, wouldn't spend $300 just to have some eye-candy interface for 2 roles.
Didn't think you would. I think vista ultimate cost me about $380 which is good.

[IHerman]

An OEM license is only 90 Euros here. By the time I buy a computer I'll probably have to buy a Vienna license anyway.

[IHerman]

Guess what?

The Vista coupon will only work if your PC was delivered before March 16th. Of course I got my PC today, which makes the Vista coupon useless. I'm stuck with XP unless the store fixes this. The order I placed was marked as paid on March 14th, so technically I still have a right to that Upgrade. The order just says 19th, which will most likely not be accepted.

If I knew this I'd have bought a normal Vista License.

So know I don't even dare to install the XP MCE on my brand new PC, because I might have to return it to the store. Ain't going to be easy if I activate it.

Hopefully by tomorrow I know more, I'll keep you posted. Meanwhile don't buy an XP with Vista Coupon!

[peoplessi]

It isn't really that much cheaper with the coupon, at least here in europe. Certainly if you bought it before that date it is wise to use.

[IHerman]

With the coupon I have both XP and Vista, so I can choose. An OEM copy of Vista gives me Vista and nothing else.

[peoplessi]

Depending on the Vista version (excluding Home, Home Prem.) - you can downgrade to any XP version if you wish. So it is more of a Vista OR XP.

[Steve]

Depending on the Vista version (excluding Home, Home Prem.) - you can downgrade to any XP version if you wish. So it is more of a Vista OR XP.

Really? I'm guessing that excludes the OEM version of Ultimate?

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

Uhhh, thats the first I have heard of that.

[IHerman]

Depending on the Vista version (excluding Home, Home Prem.) - you can downgrade to any XP version if you wish. So it is more of a Vista OR XP.I didn't know that. But it seems to be true.

I would have gone for the Home Premium OEM, so it wouldn't be of much use to me anyway.

source (http://g.msn.com/9SE/1?http://download.microsoft.com/download/f/5/5/f5573dbc-e4d9-464f-953c-4eacea2a38c1/VL_downgrade_rights.doc&&DI=6066&IG=161a24fc06ee4ecfb5045ae87ce1eab3&POS=4&CM=WPU&CE=4&CS=AWP&SR=4) (word document directly from Microsoft)

[Hudson]

Heh, they prepared downgrade rights? I guess they expected it :D

[Destroyer]

I have this problem with Vista(Business) my harddrive is always doing something. like the HD light is always on even when im not doing anything. I could just be at the desktop with no extra app open, but my HD will still be making alot of noise and be doing something. I turned of the readyboost thing or whateber that is.

[peoplessi]

I have this problem with Vista(Business) my harddrive is always doing something. like the HD light is always on even when im not doing anything. I could just be at the desktop with no extra app open, but my HD will still be making alot of noise and be doing something. I turned of the readyboost thing or whateber that is.

It is indexing files, it will do so for few days/weeks, but I suggest that you keep it on. Later on search functions will be _a lot_ quicker.

[Steve]

Well, I've activated Vista Ultimate on my mid range machine. I have to say to even play games on this thing I had to strip vista of almost all of the random bullshit running in the background. It was using 45% of my memory on what looks to be shit I will never use (I have 2GB mem)

I've disabled indexing on all of my drives - very little use to me as I know where everything is on my machine. No use searching for me.

Dreamscene is pretty cool, I must admit. But if you're a gamer I'd stay away from it (CPU usage shot up 10-15% using it) But it does look good...

Sound can be a problem in older games but it's not microsofts job to make the drivers, so I don't blame them.

Readyboost sucks. Really. My CPU usage shot up so much my desktop was not usable at all. This maybe something to do with that fact I have 2GB memory? Anyway, it doesn't work properly. If it does have something to do with my RAM - Advise me in a readme file or something, please.

However, after disabling all the crap, Vista now runs on par with XP.

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

I'm guessing you have a driver issue somewhere.

Vista runs on par with XP here with nothing disabled.
X2 4200+
1 gig pc 3200
ATI 1900XT

[Steve]

I'm guessing you have a driver issue somewhere.

ATI 1900XT
Yup. I don't mind at the moment.

[avatar_58]

Steve - you had CPU usage just standing still in Vista? That doesn't sound right, I had Aero and everything active and it didn't affect squat. My gaming issues had little to do with the CPU being used, it was a slowmotion effect which may or may not have been related to the drivers for my laptop.

The actual O/S performance was on par with XP. I'd also recommend leaving indexing on, because that search function is really amazing. Being able to type in names of programs with their paths was very useful.

[Steve]

Steve - you had CPU usage just standing still in Vista? That doesn't sound right, I had Aero and everything active and it didn't affect squat. My gaming issues had little to do with the CPU being used, it was a slowmotion effect which may or may not have been related to the drivers for my laptop.

The actual O/S performance was on par with XP. I'd also recommend leaving indexing on, because that search function is really amazing. Being able to type in names of programs with their paths was very useful.

Yeah, My CPU usage was going up and down when doing nothing. Then had too much CPU usage with the Aero interface on and that widget sidebar thing sucked away at it, too. Dreamscene choked my machine.

I've never been a fan of indexing, I hate it. I know where all the tools are and where my files are so it's pointless for me. :)


My specs:
AMD 64 3000+
2GB MEM
Geforce 6600 256mb (soon to be a 8800)

My CPU may be letting me down but when I upgraded to vista FROM XP (testing) I had no performance problems at all. Not one. But this time around I have done a clean install and I'm having these issues.

Any ideas guys? :)

[Marty]

forgive me if this has been answered already:

ok, so I have vista but my .avi video files wont play with picture but does have sound. I've used VLC player but surprisingly had the same result. i did use the nero media player that came with my craphics card and one of my avi files did play. but I tried using other avi files using nero but I had to buy the full version to be able to play MPEG4 videos :rolleyes:
so my question is, whats a good codec pack to download that is compatible with vista and will solve my problems free of spyware?
thanks in advance

[Steve]

forgive me if this has been answered already:

ok, so I have vista but my .avi video files wont play with picture but does have sound. I've used VLC player but surprisingly had the same result. i did use the nero media player that came with my craphics card and one of my avi files did play. but I tried using other avi files using nero but I had to buy the full version to be able to play MPEG4 videos :rolleyes:
so my question is, whats a good codec pack to download that is compatible with vista and will solve my problems free of spyware?
thanks in advance
I have DivX installed. Works :)

[Twin]

how do the moving wallpapers work? are they cool or just a pain in the a**

[IHerman]

Am I the only one who only sees his wallpaper during startup?

I have 2 screens and they are always filled with applications so a fancy gpu/cpu slurping wallpaper is not really all that interesting.

[Steve]

how do the moving wallpapers work? are they cool or just a pain in the a**

Instead of a .jpg or bmp on the desktop it's a "HD" .wmv file. The rain video looks really cool but I have to turn it off when I want to play a game.

[Phait]

Instead of a .jpg or bmp on the desktop it's a "HD" .wmv file. The rain video looks really cool but I have to turn it off when I want to play a game.

But I thought Vista unloaded itself when gaming?

[Steve]

But I thought Vista unloaded itself when gaming?

Never tried loading up a game with it going. I just turned it off before hand.

[Rellik66]

But I thought Vista unloaded itself when gaming?IIRC, that's a DirectX 10 feature only.

[Foxy]

Something's wrong if an Operating System Needs to UNLOAD itself to run an application. Its supposed to be an essential abstraction layer to the hardware.

Methinks the cruft and feature creep has gotten out of hand.

[Kristian Joensen]

I don't think the operating system gets unloaded but the GUI.

[8IronBob]

Better hope that Vienna will get rid of that issue... Now I've seen a lot coming out of this OS that seems to show off the weird side of Microsoft. Then again, I only run a Pentium-M 1.86 GHz and 1.5 GB PC4200 Notebook RAM on here. If only I'd have a Core 2 Duo and 2 GB RAM and a DX10 card built into here, then I'd have a notebook that will probably last another couple of years. Seems like if this is the way that Vista's gonna be, fine. I'll look into going back to a desktop very shortly, and something that Vista gaming will actually beg for more games being added in...

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

forgive me if this has been answered already:

ok, so I have vista but my .avi video files wont play with picture but does have sound. I've used VLC player but surprisingly had the same result. i did use the nero media player that came with my craphics card and one of my avi files did play. but I tried using other avi files using nero but I had to buy the full version to be able to play MPEG4 videos :rolleyes:
so my question is, whats a good codec pack to download that is compatible with vista and will solve my problems free of spyware?
thanks in advance
K-Lite codec pack... far better than that divx junk someone else recommended.
http://www.free-codecs.com/download/K_Lite_Codec_Pack.htm

Windows media player basic does not work so well, but the codecs work fine in Vista.

Direct link to download
http://www.free-codecs.com/download_soft.php?d=3056&s=95

[avatar_58]

I don't think the operating system gets unloaded but the GUI.

Yep thats how it works. Which is why you get the exact same game performance whether or not Aero is enabled. You can actually have it disable itself inside a game's shortcut if you think it's causing issues. I found it didn't make a difference except with some non-standard programs like Zdaemon and DOSBox. Both use low-colours and took offence to it, so disabling via the shortcut solved it.

[Jokke_r]

is there a windows classic like theme in vista? screenshots would be nice.

[Rellik66]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Vista#Visual_styles
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Windows_Standard.png

[Foxy]

Hm, looks kind of odd.

It appears the standard style doesn't have horrible clashing bright coloured window handles and ghey candy-buttons like XP though, luckily. (I use Classic on XP...)

[Rellik66]

If you can get past the orange start button, then I recommend the Official Zune theme (http://www.softpedia.com/get/Desktop-Enhancements/Themes/Microsoft-Zune-Theme.shtml), it's officially from Microsoft, so you don't need to run any special software.

(actually, it matches these forums quite nicely)

back on topic, I might consider getting Home Premium since I recently upgraded, but yet, I like my MCE2005. I think I have the coupon somewhere, what are the details on that?

[avatar_58]

is there a windows classic like theme in vista? screenshots would be nice.

Yes. It looks exactly like 2000, only with Vista's menu layouts of course.

[Rumble]

I was in the closed beta middle of last year and I have to say I didn't enjoy Vista at all during the beta.

However... I pleasant surprise was a free copy of Vista Ultimate retail a month after the Vista launch for all of us who were in the closed beta.

I installed it begrudgingly and have loved it ever since. I seriously have no complaints. It plays every game I want to play, (World of Warcraft, America's Army, Counter-Strike: Source, Sin: Episodes, etc) and the driver support has been great so far.

I'm pretty pleased with it.

[Rumble]

Oh, I should have mentioned, if I had to pay $259 for it I doubt I would have. I would still be using Windows XP Professional. I don't thin my evaluation of the experience is tainted by it being free though. Just wanted to be fair and say that as much as I like it I wouldn't invest in it if I had not gotten it free. The beta was bad enough that without the free version I wouldn't have know how well it turned out in the end.

[IHerman]

I've received my Vista copy this weekend.

However, I'm going to leave it unpacked for at least half a year. There no reason for me to go through all the trouble of re-installing my whole system for something that will offer me less stability and performance.

After SP1 I'll probably switch.

[Rider]

I'm sitting here at school behind the new line of laptops they ordered. These come pre-installed with Vista so I got to have a look at it first-hand.

I gotta say it's not as bad as I thought it'd be... sure it asks wheter you want to start any program beforehand (twice when it's an autorun :p) but overall it looks quite decent.

The only things keeping me from switching is the much heavyer load on the machine when it's running...

[ This laptop has an AMD Sempron 3500+ with 1 Gig DDR2 ram and an ATI Radeaon Xpress 1100. The memory is generally half-full and the CPU usages varies from 10 to 40% when I'm not doing anything so... ]

... and the apparent hitching with drivers everyone seems to be talking about.

When there's a DX10 game coming out I REALLY want, and I happen to have a PC that'll run Vista like a track-horse, I'll switch.

Untill then...

*Hugs Windows XP Pro* :D

[avatar_58]

[ This laptop has an AMD Sempron 3500+ with 1 Gig DDR2 ram and an ATI Radeaon Xpress 1100. The memory is generally half-full and the CPU usages varies from 10 to 40% when I'm not doing anything so... ]


Which version of Vista? I'm just curious, because I keep hearing about the CPU usage and yet when I had Vista Home Basic installed on my laptop it never happened to me. The memory usage is because of how it stores frequently used programs and processes.

I'm just curious as to what you guys have running that is eating your CPU. What does the taskmanager say?

[Rellik66]

IIRC, Home Basic has Aero turned off by default, which might account for the lighter cpu usage.

Sounds like Aero is using CPU where it should be offloaded to the graphics card, which might be a driver issue.

[Addicted Gamer]

has anyone seen Chris Pirillo's Vista vs. XP ~1h video?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=HELrxLdP85c

anyway, it's pretty neat imo. - he watches/reviews it completely as through customer's eyes.

[avatar_58]

IIRC, Home Basic has Aero turned off by default, which might account for the lighter cpu usage.

Sounds like Aero is using CPU where it should be offloaded to the graphics card, which might be a driver issue.

No, Basic has Aero. I had full fancy effects turned on and I still didn't see my CPU spike at all. Games also weren't affected by turning it on or off. The Aero performance issues are a myth, or at least are effected by bad drivers....because I never had any issues with it.


EDIT - Ok I have Home Premium. Apparently basic doesn't even HAVE Aero.

[huey_yeng]

^ IIRC Home Basic does not have the Aero features. It is turn off by default and the only way to enable it is by purchasing a Home Premium and above license. :)

[avatar_58]

I just checked the comparisons yeah. However on my Home Premium with full effects I still didn't see CPU idle usage.

[big fat lazy]

Can you install the same copy of Vista on multiple computers like XP? I ask because on Microsofts website they have some offer where if you buy Vista Ultimate you can get two Home Premium upgrades for other computers cheaper.

[Jiminator]

uh.... with the activation and genuine advantage thingy you can't install xp on multiple computers, they have to have seperate licenses. and yeah, you can use the same vista install disk but with different activation keys to install on multiple computers.

[Steve]

I've moved back to XP for the time being. I'll move back to Vista for Alan Wake, Bioshock and Crysis.

[sirlemonhead]

has anyone seen Chris Pirillo's Vista vs. XP ~1h video?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=HELrxLdP85c

anyway, it's pretty neat imo. - he watches/reviews it completely as through customer's eyes.

I got about 2 minutes in, realised he hadn't started saying anything interesting yet.. and his voice is SO irritating :D

[Steve]

I got about 2 minutes in, realised he hadn't started saying anything interesting yet.. and his voice is SO irritating :D

That guy talked ABOUT NOTHING. My god... never made a point and I wish he would slow the **** down.

[Jiminator]

chris used to be one of the hosts for techtv. unfortunately when they were bought out by g4 most of the tech support shows got canned. anyway he is still pretty popular as a tech spokesman.

[Steve]

chris used to be one of the hosts for techtv. unfortunately when they were bought out by g4 most of the tech support shows got canned. anyway he is still pretty popular as a tech spokesman.

I remember him. Unfortunately, it takes him forever to get to the point and goes off and starts other topics. He's annoying.

[Addicted Gamer]

DirectX 10 backported to Windows XP! (http://www.techamok.com/?pid=2502)

hehe, Vista is pointless now pretty much?:o

edit: Steve, actually he made point saying why the heck is Microsoft releasing Vista as 7 different version (well, in reality there's over 50 if you take in all the OEM and other versions). same with XP - why 2 versions? it didn't make any sense; only "money making" sense to m$;)

[alpha400]

^^ holy s**t !! ^^ if this works, then screw vista! someone give this guy a hug!:o

[Addicted Gamer]

if someone gives a shit about kernels, then one interesting comparison:
http://widefox.pbwiki.com/Kernel%20Comparison%20Linux%20vs%20Windows

edit: also, why haven't anyone mentioned that only 244 copies of Vista were sold in China in the 2 weeks.
http://slashdot.org/articles/07/04/18/1512216.shtml

the reason is because Vista costs there about 3 chinese month salary. also it's legal to sell pirated software in the markets there (as being the other reason).

still, m$ made a nice price there. probably wanted to earn back all the millions they made for advertisings:d

--

Vista is just a big failure. well atm.

[Jiminator]

excellent find. I seem to recall that this was predicted by others some time ago. ;) I just hope he does something like move his stuff to sourceforge rather than go it alone. A community will be better able to handle problems. The DX10 experience will not be there if it "mostly" works.

about vista in china, yeah, the price is a joke. Not sure what micro$oft is expecting.

[Foxy]

Like it or not, Vista is going to supersede XP.

I call 'waste of time'.

[Jiminator]

it might, but consumer pressure might also lead microsoft to "fix" vista. as is XP is a stable platform and pretty much all hardware works with it. vista includes a few gee-whiz features but does not really include that much that is new or useful. The downside being the incompatibility with old hardware and drivers. And that is a pretty huge downside. It bad when you go to a manufacturers website to look for drivers and see that they are only going to create them for currently shipping products. Add to that the fact that microsoft wants to milk all the money out of you it can, with all these stupid versions and the bizarre licensing requirements.

[Addicted Gamer]

Like it or not, Vista is going to supersede XP.

I call 'waste of time'.

theoretically correct, because at the end of year no shop will deliver computers with XP, but what may happen practically in near future? - nobody knows. yet.

Paul Allen, for example, has admitted they have done mistakes with Vista, Bill in the other hand says Vista is like the best thing on Earth and selling great (ironic?)

like Pirillo said that Vista is beta built on beta (industry's biggest mistake).

[Steve]

DirectX 10 backported to Windows XP! (http://www.techamok.com/?pid=2502)

hehe, Vista is pointless now pretty much?:o

edit: Steve, actually he made point saying why the heck is Microsoft releasing Vista as 7 different version (well, in reality there's over 50 if you take in all the OEM and other versions). same with XP - why 2 versions? it didn't make any sense; only "money making" sense to m$;)
Yeah, he did make some good points even though I stated he didn't ;)... it just took him forever to get to the point and it annoyed me. He's not interesting to listen to.

[avatar_58]

Like it or not, Vista is going to supersede XP.

I call 'waste of time'.

Of course it will, however thats no reason to lockout features for those who aren't in the mood to switch. Vista still has flaws and isn't an attractive upgrade for some people. On my laptop is caused all sorts of slowdowns and problems in games, so sticking with it just because it's "the future" is a rather silly thing to do.

DX10 should have been on XP even before Vista's release. Really there is no excuse. What does it do that won't work on XP? It's just Microsoft's way of making Vista look more attractive to customers. Most people wouldn't upgrade if they knew Crysis would run in DX10 in XP.

[Steve]

DX10 should have been on XP even before Vista's release. Really there is no excuse. What does it do that won't work on XP? It's just Microsoft's way of making Vista look more attractive to customers. Most people wouldn't upgrade if they knew Crysis would run in DX10 in XP.

Bang on. I wouldn't have got my copy of Ultimate if it weren't for DX10. That's the only reason why I have Vista. No other reason. I want to play Cysis in it's full and Bioshock.

I would have stuck with XP for many years to come if they didn't have DX10 only on Vista.

Bastards :p

[FireFly]

it might, but consumer pressure might also lead microsoft to "fix" vista.
Fix it in what sense?

[Jiminator]

I think the hardware support is a big flaw. If they wanted to require everyone to write new drivers they should have had a useful purpose behind it, like x64 support. all they did was muddy the waters and make yet more expenses for hardware manufacturers who now have to support 4 different platforms - xp, xp64, vista, vista 64. Guess which ones they don't write drivers for....

oh, and I won't mention drm. at least in xp you could opt out. now it is a 'feature'. and none of that crap about protected content. consumers want to be able to buy things from everyone and play them on all their various devices. drm is the exact opposite.

[FireFly]

The new driver models were intended to improve stability, reduce overhead, and allow for easier updating, removing the need for system restarts. One of the main benefits of DirectX 10, the reduced CPU overhead, derives directly from the new driver model. So on one hand people are complaining that Microsoft did too much with the OS, and on the other they're complaining that they did too little!

I agree that the current situation is not exactly agreeable, but it was necessary for MS to break driver compatibility to move forward, so they had little choice. In the end it just means that consumers have to wait a while longer before upgrading, which would have been the case had Microsoft delayed the OS. And had MS downgraded their plans, consumers might have been better off now, but would they have been better off several years down the line when any driver issues would have been fixed anyway?

[Phayzon]

Been using Vista for about 2.5 months now. Ultimate x64 on my destop runs great with everything, everything that ran in XP runs just as good Vista. Home Premium x86 on a new notebook, also running well.

Havent heard any negative things from my friend or father (running Home Prem. x64 and Ultimate x86, respectively) either.

[Steve]

Been using Vista for about 2.5 months now. Ultimate x64 on my destop runs great with everything, everything that ran in XP runs just as good Vista. Home Premium x86 on a new notebook, also running well.

Havent heard any negative things from my friend or father (running Home Prem. x64 and Ultimate x86, respectively) either.

The only problem I had with Vista was with DX9 games - they run like shit. But, hey, that's Nividias problem.

Just like XP way back as I'm waiting for Nvidia to release better drivers. It will happen but other than that I haven't had much of a problem. :)

[gp4tron]

Dell to Offer XP as Vista Alternative:

http://www.usnews.com/usnews/biztech/articles/070420/20vista.htm

A sign?

[avatar_58]

Not really, Dell and many others were foolish to even offer Vista at all this soon after release. Until the drivers are up to par AND certified I don't even understand how they can get away with it. I hate seeing people with brand new PCs that have uncertified beta drivers (ahem, my laptop). Beta is supposed to mean "unsupported and unfinished" which basically makes it ironic considering the guaruntee you get from the place you bought it.

[Phait]

SWEET. Maybe I'll pick up a Dell laptop later on without having to buy XP. But I'm still thinking Lenovo.

[Yatta]

The company I work for ordered ten computers last week, all with Vista.

It's been my job the past few days to wipe 'em off and put on XP Professional. Dell needs to get a clue and offer XP for all of their systems rather than a select few.

[Jiminator]

It's been my job the past few days to wipe 'em off and put on XP Professional. That pretty much sums up why vista is a failure.

[WestSeven]

That pretty much sums up why vista is a failure.

With respect that doesn't say why Vista is a failure. Technically no reasons were given at all it was just stated that he re-installed. Comercially it's a bit strange but as Microsoft will have sold two OSs for each PC, rather than just one it doesn't strike me as a comercial failure either.

I've just started using Vista and really like it. I don't see what the problem is - although I'm new to it and I'm certainly not a fan-girl! I just don't see any problems yet.

[Jiminator]

depending on your purposes it may work great for you, or maybe not. For Yatta, his company probably does some form of volume licensing for XP, so to wipe vista and install XP would not cost them anything, aside from the money wasted on vista. vista fixes some things but at the same time it breaks a lot of other things. the licensing is extremely consumer unfriendly. They can decide to revoke your license at will. They have built in DRM into the system. DRM is good right? No, it is a restriction on what you can do with content and also a means to tie you to a particular content provider. Playing DRM content may reduce the quality of other audio or video content. Supporting DRM will increase the complexity and decrease the stability of drivers. The drivers are incompatible with old hardware. Basically manufacturers are not going to spend money to create drivers for old hardware, so many things are just not going to work.

[Steve]

I just don't see any problems yet.
There is but I've only come across bad performance in games, but that's Nividias problem I guess... So, no probs for me as of yet apart from game performance.

[Jiminator]

interesting article on gaming comparisons between xp & vista
http://enthusiast.hardocp.com/article.html?art=MTMzNCwxLCxoZW50aHVzaWFzdA==

conclusion is that xp runs almost all games faster, including flight simulator

[Steve]

interesting article on gaming comparisons between xp & vista
http://enthusiast.hardocp.com/article.html?art=MTMzNCwxLCxoZW50aHVzaWFzdA==

conclusion is that xp runs almost all games faster, including flight simulator
That's no secret ;)

[IwantMORE]

Classic example of Microsoft optimization of computer data...

http://www.microsoft.com/germany/presseservice/default.mspx

The 75px square logo at the bottom is actually a 512x511px image. Nice :)

[Jiminator]

not sure what point you are trying to make. that the image is pixellated? unfortunately I can't read the site.

[Taril]

Well my computer with XP died, it was unsaveable. So we bought a new computer.. My first new computer in 7 years. It's got Windows Vista Home Premium on it.. Im loving this computer, Vista is just so cool.. All it needs is a new graphics card. I dont know why people bash Vista so much, its been perfect for me.. The only problem we had was that my old All-in-one printer wasnt supported at all, so we have to get a new one.

[IHerman]

not sure what point you are trying to make. that the image is pixellated? unfortunately I can't read the site.It's not efficient, a smaller image should be scaled to prevent that people download unnecessary data. Not a big deal.

One of our content editors once put a 3,5Mb BMP, sized to 120x120 pixels in html, on a page that was viewed a couple of hundred times per day.

[Foxy]

Ouch.

[Jiminator]

vista drm issues?
some people have found it impossible to move/copy/delete big files to/from vista. they do the same with xp with no issues. other people are suggesting it is somehow drm related. (you remember, the drm that would only be used for multimedia content).

article:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/05/15/vistas_long_goodbye_continues/

discussion:
http://forums.microsoft.com/TechNet/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=1358057&SiteID=17

[Steve]

vista drm issues?
some people have found it impossible to move/copy/delete big files to/from vista. they do the same with xp with no issues. other people are suggesting it is somehow drm related. (you remember, the drm that would only be used for multimedia content).

article:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/05/15/vistas_long_goodbye_continues/

discussion:
http://forums.microsoft.com/TechNet/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=1358057&SiteID=17

I had a problem moving 5000 .ico files to one folder to another (it just kept crashing). I booted into XP and had no problems moving the files.

Can't say I've had a problem moving large files - I mean I have some of my DVD collection on hard drive and the largest movie I have is 7GB - which I had no problems moving. However, XP was much faster moving the file\folders.

edit:
Also browsing websites with IE or Firefox within Vista is a heck load slower - even downloading takes a hit when using Vista. It just feels "sluggish" when browsing websites. XP is fine.

[BillyD]

Bringing this thread back to life for a moment...

Today I had my first problem with Vista besides the whole installing it and getting my old hardware to work on it thing. I awoke to find that windows was deactivated due to a hardware change. Now, I knew full and well that Vista does in fact deactivate itself if you upgrade or install new hardware. I didn't know, however, that windows would spontaneously deactivate itself for a hardware change that did not happen. I have not installed any new hardware on this computer since before I installed Vista. Luckily it was easy enough to call Microsoft and have them reactivate it, but I hope this isn't something that's going to commonly happen. :doh:

[Jiminator]

yeah, good thing you had a phone and a half hour to burn. it'd probably suck if you needed your computer for something at that time. all of these anti-piracy measures that have been built in to vista are only affecting the paying consumers for the product....

[IHerman]

Bringing this thread back to life for a moment...

Today I had my first problem with Vista besides the whole installing it and getting my old hardware to work on it thing. I awoke to find that windows was deactivated due to a hardware change. Now, I knew full and well that Vista does in fact deactivate itself if you upgrade or install new hardware. I didn't know, however, that windows would spontaneously deactivate itself for a hardware change that did not happen. I have not installed any new hardware on this computer since before I installed Vista. Luckily it was easy enough to call Microsoft and have them reactivate it, but I hope this isn't something that's going to commonly happen. :doh:
Perhaps you've installed something like:
- CD/DVD-mounting software
- Remote access software like LogMeIn (LogMeIn installs an extra "video driver")

It still shouldn't happen unless you change your motherboard or something. I want to upgrade my PC whenever the hell I want.

[mon2908]

Yes, I hate Microsoft Windows.

But you can write, what you think of this.

http://news.softpedia.com/news/Forget-about-the-WGA-20-Windows-Vista-Features-and-Services-Harvest-User-Data-for-Microsoft-58752.shtml

Would be interested to hear your opinion about it.

[Phayzon]

Bringing this thread back to life for a moment...

Today I had my first problem with Vista besides the whole installing it and getting my old hardware to work on it thing. I awoke to find that windows was deactivated due to a hardware change. Now, I knew full and well that Vista does in fact deactivate itself if you upgrade or install new hardware. I didn't know, however, that windows would spontaneously deactivate itself for a hardware change that did not happen. I have not installed any new hardware on this computer since before I installed Vista. Luckily it was easy enough to call Microsoft and have them reactivate it, but I hope this isn't something that's going to commonly happen. :doh:

3rd case of this Ive heard. 2nd case was when my own copy decided to do it :doh:

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

Mine did that too within a month of installing it. Don't really know why, but I was able to correct it without a call to microsoft.

[BillyD]

Perhaps you've installed something like:
- CD/DVD-mounting software
- Remote access software like LogMeIn (LogMeIn installs an extra "video driver")

It still shouldn't happen unless you change your motherboard or something. I want to upgrade my PC whenever the hell I want.
Nope and nope. Not really sure what triggered it, but like jim said good thing I had a phone and the time. It would really suck for someone who doesn't have toll-free access or needed the computer immediately. I wonder how often this happens with users? Hopefully it's not widespread...

[Jiminator]

I bet it is a mysterious anti-piracy factorX - so that no matter the legitimacy of your install it will force a reactivation based on some random formula. so the pirates systems will drop into this reactivation mode, regardless of crack. (until it gets cracked... too)

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

I bet it is just a bug.

[MAT]

How many bugs will be in Windows Vista? (http://blogs.codegear.com/davidi/archive/2005/10/09/21652.aspx)