I joined the marine core [Archive]

IceColdDuke

07-12-2007, 11:24 AM

Marines is a essentially a subdiv. of Navy.

No, we are a completelly seperate branch from the Navy. The navy gives us rides but we are NOT a subdivsion of the navy. The Marines are a "all in one" fighting branch.

the marines are basically the presidents private army.

Those are the seals or delta force...marines are the ones that go in first and the other branches clean up after us :).

Seems all the reasons you're joining are for the wrong reasons. Too much TV and Movies for you I think.

Quite the opposite, movies discouraged me from the joining the marine core.

You do know how dangerous it is and that it is a LOT of hard work?

Its going to be hella dangerous but someone has to do it. Were the front lines were the division that goes in first, but we trained to shoot farther(100 yards farther then our enemy), and faster then the people shooting back at us.

And if I did die id want to be saving someone else life then dieing say from old age or having drunk driver hit me.

jimbob

07-12-2007, 11:32 AM

Its going to be hella dangerous but someone has to do it. Were the front lines were the division that goes in first, but we trained to shoot farther(100 yards farther then our enemy), and faster then the people shooting back at us.
that sounds like patriotic propaganda speech.

DavoX

07-12-2007, 11:50 AM

I wonder if all the patriotic crap in USA is ever going to end and someone finally understands it's all a brainwashing thing? :D

Black Yeti

07-12-2007, 12:47 PM

I think I will never understand why people subscribre voluntarily to the military. I mean it all about killing and getting killed and it's not a game it's thre real thing. Also you have to follow orders and are not supposed to do any thinking.

If you really wanted to save lives you could have joined the fire department or something. War is about killing people not saving them.

Well, I wish you good luck and always remember: You do not respawn once you're dead.

mysteryperfecta

07-12-2007, 01:01 PM

Congrats, and good luck.

Usurper

07-12-2007, 04:18 PM

Hope it goes well. Try to get stationed in Okinawa. I hear that's a pretty comfy gig.

Inanimate Carbon Rod

07-12-2007, 04:31 PM

Have fun... in Texas, A&M is really big on people in the corp.

Sang

07-12-2007, 06:21 PM

I wonder if all the patriotic crap in USA is ever going to end and someone finally understands it's all a brainwashing thing? :D

I don't think non-US residents should talk about US politics which they probably know squat about.
_______________________________________

Hope it goes.. as well as it can go over there ;)

Phait

07-12-2007, 07:58 PM

Who's to say they don't know about our politics though?

No, we are a completelly seperate branch from the Navy. The navy gives us rides but we are NOT a subdivsion of the navy. The Marines are a "all in one" fighting branch.

I said "essentially" though. Someone I know who knows a lot more about military than I do said something to that effect, I can't remember much more. Too bad I can't find a source.

IceColdDuke

07-12-2007, 08:04 PM

For Administrative purposes we are in the same building as the department of the navy. But again we are completelly seperate branch nothing essitential about it. The Marines have there own air force, navy and army. : ).

Has anyone in here gone through PLC in the Marine Corps?

Phait

07-12-2007, 08:08 PM

Try http://forum.frugalsworld.com Pilots Bar there's many servicemen (retired and enlisted) there.

Jiminator

07-12-2007, 11:20 PM

eh, good luck. and remember, if you ever need to get out, send a few emails to your 'boyfriend' and that will solve that problem. ;)

BillyD

07-12-2007, 11:56 PM

Congrats on joining the Navy... I mean, the Marines. :p Make the most of it while you're there. Hopefully you don't get your ass stuck in Iraq unless that's what you want. Don't worry about what some people say here, they would never join even if there were world peace anyways so who cares what they think? I don't plan on joining any military service - I'm going to do law enforcement as soon as I graduate college. Not as risky as the armed services, but the getting-my-ass-shot-off potential is still definitely there.

What are your plans post-armed services?

Oh, and as it was pointed out earlier it's spelt "corp" (but still pronounced core). If you're gonna join it know how to spell the name at least ;)

shiranui

07-13-2007, 06:48 AM

Good luck.
Just remember that there is no respawn after a headshot.

IceColdDuke

07-13-2007, 12:19 PM

What are your plans post-armed services?

Oh, and as it was pointed out earlier it's spelt "corp" (but still pronounced core). If you're gonna join it know how to spell the name at least ;)

Post armed forces I hope to either mabye go back into gaming or fly commerical planes. If I get to fly in the marines ill put in my 20 years if not ill probley just put in my 8 years that I signed up for.

DavoX

07-13-2007, 08:35 PM

I don't think non-US residents should talk about US politics which they probably know squat about.
_______________________________________

Hope it goes.. as well as it can go over there ;)

Wrong, only people that are not brainwashed by patriotic propaganda (yes, propaganda) can speak about it. Just like a god believer will never say "hmm maybe god doesn't exist".

Really ,i'm kinda tired of hearing the same crap over and over "Patriots! there's a star missing in our flag!".

IceColdDuke

07-13-2007, 10:08 PM

Really ,i'm kinda tired of hearing the same crap over and over "Patriots! there's a star missing in our flag!".

Doesn't matter if im "patriotic" will you be able to say "Hey I saved one of my friends in the service and now his two little girls have a daddy for the rest of there childhood" Personally I can't think of a better feeling then being able to say that.

BillyD

07-14-2007, 02:07 AM

Wrong, only people that are not brainwashed by patriotic propaganda (yes, propaganda) can speak about it. Just like a god believer will never say "hmm maybe god doesn't exist".
:rolleyes: Anybody can comment on whatever they want to - just those on the outside (and those "brainwashed") wont be taken very seriously in what they say. Blind patriotism, to which I'm taking your use of patriotism to mean, is indeed bad. Widespread blind patriotism would be a governing body's wet dream. However, patriotism in the sense of having pride in your country (not your politicians) and supporting what you feel is best for your country is not bad at all. Plenty of patriotic people have no problem saying they think our politicians don't know crap about what's good for our country.

Really ,i'm kinda tired of hearing the same crap over and over "Patriots! there's a star missing in our flag!".
Truthfuly, the only people I've ever heard making comments like that are those who identify themselves as anti-patriotism while talking about what they're tired of hearing. I've never heard a patriot say anything remotely resembling what any anti-patriot has claimed to be sick of hearing.

Post armed forces I hope to either mabye go back into gaming or fly commerical planes. If I get to fly in the marines ill put in my 20 years if not ill probley just put in my 8 years that I signed up for.
Flying commercial would be bad ass. I thought about it at one point, but the field seems too volatile to me. I'd hate to work for an airline that goes bankrupt and have to start off at the bottom of seniority at a new company. You gotta go for what you love and think is right for ya, tho. Until planes are completely computerized there's going to be a need for pilots. We need gamers, too, of course. What would we do without our Duke Nukems and Gordon Freemans? ;)

hiob

07-16-2007, 12:39 PM

Doesn't matter if im "patriotic" will you be able to say "Hey I saved one of my friends in the service and now his two little girls have a daddy for the rest of there childhood" Personally I can't think of a better feeling then being able to say that.

I usually stay out of such discussions, but you know that war isn't as romantic as you seem to think it is.

peoplessi

07-16-2007, 12:39 PM

Doesn't matter if im "patriotic" will you be able to say "Hey I saved one of my friends in the service and now his two little girls have a daddy for the rest of there childhood" Personally I can't think of a better feeling then being able to say that.

He/her wouldn't get to that situation without the war on terror thing that's going on. I respect people that serve, but if done for wrong reason.. well it might cost you your life. There is no glamour in it in the end.

Money well spend on wars around the globe, I would concentrate on getting people through schools and get them decent education. Socialsecurity to a better level - poors get poorer when rich get richer.

Same things I would concentrate on, in the countries like Irak and Afghanistan.

BillyD

07-16-2007, 02:11 PM

I respect people that serve, but if done for wrong reason.. well it might cost you your life. There is no glamour in it in the end.
Well intentioned or for the right reasons or not, war can cost anyone their life at any time. :p

Inanimate Carbon Rod

07-16-2007, 02:56 PM

Why did you sign up for 8 years? That seems kind of silly to do so. Personally I would have signed up for 4 and signed for another 4 if I so desired for a reenlistment bonus.

mysteryperfecta

07-16-2007, 03:15 PM

ICD,

Be sure to keep us updated on when/whether you're deployed somewhere. Gotta keep tabs on ya. Hope you're not overseas when DNF is released. On the other hand, piracy is a big problem overseas. If you're deployed, you may get to play DNF before we do. :tinyted:

hellchicken

07-16-2007, 03:45 PM

Doesn't matter if im "patriotic" will you be able to say "Hey I saved one of my friends in the service and now his two little girls have a daddy for the rest of there childhood" Personally I can't think of a better feeling then being able to say that.

Though I wish you all the best in your service I find your above stated reason for doing so to be complete bullsh!t.

That comment does give the impression of you being out for heroics and I can already picture how you are going to be really disappointed when all you're going to do is killing countless fathers, husbands and brothers who themselves leave behind kids that will soon enough become your new enemies.

Just don't join the military if all your in for is a checklist of heroic deeds. I think it's more likely that you'll get shot yourself than you saving one of your buddies if you walk into battle with those romantic expectations.

Good luck anyway.

bobthefish

07-16-2007, 03:55 PM

I don't think non-US residents should talk about US politics which they probably know squat about.

actually, im not sure u know wat ur talking about. here in canada, we get ALL the news on american politics.

Syph

07-16-2007, 03:57 PM

Has anyone in here gone through PLC in the Marine Corps?

Finally spelled right... By the person who was corrected wrongly oddly enough :D

Nessus

07-16-2007, 04:14 PM

Good luck ICD, it's a dangerous time for the Marine Corp.

My advice would be to get in the best possible physical shape you can and to work on rifle markmsmanship now, before you go in. The adjustment will be hard enough without playing catchup, if you want to stand out being in incredible shape is helpful. For instance can you do 50 pushups?

peoplessi

07-16-2007, 07:15 PM

Timelimit being? I do ~40 in 60sec.

theRobot

07-16-2007, 08:17 PM

No timelimit... don't even time yourself.. conserve your energy.. if you want to stand out, be the one that keeps going...

When the marines say get down and give me push ups... they don't state a number.. he'll tell you when to stop.. until he tells you to stop, you keep chanting numbers.. and when you reach about 50 in the time it takes to explain something to the rest of the crew.. he'll know somethings different about you.

Sang

07-18-2007, 06:52 AM

actually, im not sure u know wat ur talking about. here in canada, we get ALL the news on american politics.

Yes but not every non-US resident lives in Canada. Only American politics-related news we get here is "this and that guy are running for president this guy will probably win because of this"

DavoX

07-18-2007, 09:00 AM

I'm sorry, but non-american residents can know as much as the the next american random guy, some US-residents don't know jack shit about their country, it all depends. So there's no definitives in there.

Conclusion, yes, people outside of the US can give an opinion about US, sometimes they can know even more than US citizens.

widowmaker

07-18-2007, 10:54 AM

Keep your head down and your eyes open. Where ever you go, whatever you end up doing I hope that you make it back in one piece. Best of luck to you.

Destroyer

07-19-2007, 11:42 PM

I joined the marine core does anyone know how hard it is really to get into plc? I scored a 75 QT on the ASVAB.

Thank You sir.

Im sure it will be very tough, but hang in there i bet you can do it.
Good Luck to you and all the Other Marines man.

DavoX

07-20-2007, 10:30 PM

Watch out for Osama and try to get some oil while you're at it.

IceColdDuke

07-20-2007, 10:42 PM

I know war isn't romantic.

And I will keep everyone up to date : ). I signed up for 8 years because my plan in the core consists of PLC(ocs training, and college WITH OUT active duty), which is 4 years and another two years of pilot training school. And right now im in the reserves I have a year and half to get into a school, my reserve unit won't be active untill 2009ish(isn't slated to be anyway).

I've had good friends that joined the marines(I'm not following them by any means), the marines get me into college(because I screwed up in HS), the marines get me to fly by 2014 those are big perks for me. Being able to fight for my country, my friends, and my family are the most important thing to me. And for those that don't understand I can't convey it, I can't make you understand. Its how I grew up but its people like me that ensure people like everyone on this board still have a free life to do what they want.

Phait

07-21-2007, 06:54 AM

but its people like me that ensure people like everyone on this board still have a free life to do what they want.

Then you'd be fighting our very own government - perhaps not literally, but along a political path of sorts. Terrorists fighting in the mideast don't have a huge impact, if anything, on our freedom. Maybe I'm seeing it shortsighted (usually, I'm pretty dumb about all this), but if freedom is going to be taken away or changed it's going to be because of power-hungry corporation-suckling suits in office -- in the name of security, no matter how trivial or big.

X-Vector

07-21-2007, 08:14 AM

Its how I grew up but its people like me that ensure people like everyone on this board still have a free life to do what they want.

http://www.duke.edu/web/film/truestories/Groisman_FewGood.jpg

Sign up to the USMC if that's what you want to do, but don't attempt to 'justify' your career choice by feeding us that tacky line.
It's just as arguable that by becoming part of the US military you are endangering people's lives and freedom worldwide, either directly or indirectly.

BTW, it's "Semper Fi", not "Semper Fie" (it's short for "Semper Fidelis" - "always faithful").
See here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semper_fi#The_United_States_Marine_Corps).

DavoX

07-21-2007, 10:03 AM

Its people like me that ensure people like everyone on this board still have a free life to do what they want.

Let's see how you like it when you see your friends dying one by one. "My friends died but oh i must do it for my country, Bush tells me that shooting people will give everyone freedom so i must do it!! and i saw it in the movies too, so it must be true."

Theseus314

07-21-2007, 11:27 AM

Its how I grew up but its people like me that ensure people like everyone on this board still have a free life to do what they want.

Congratulations on finding yourself a decent career with great opportunities.

However, I don't think there's any evidence to suggest that military force helps protect freedom. And it's a silly romantic thought, which makes me wonder if you're joining for the correct reasons.

IceColdDuke

07-21-2007, 09:48 PM

And it's a silly romantic thought, which makes me wonder if you're joining for the correct reasons.

In the end for me its the right reasons, its the fastest way I can get my piliots license through PLC, and sence i will be a Marine I will be able to get into a four year school(I hate JC).

Let's see how you like it when you see your friends dying one by one.

I don't like it my best friend died last year, but it made me realize my friends can also die at home as well as abroad.

And sence im in the reserves I can still work on game design as a hobby as well. I've been working on a side project military game(and I know games and real life are two different things :) ) using the Q3 engine just have to put that off for 20ish weeks(boot + MOS).

Phait

07-26-2007, 07:34 PM

Just to illustrate point war is not glamorous:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070726/us_nm/usa_veteran_lawsuit_dc

The parents of an Iraq war veteran who committed suicide sued the U.S. government on Thursday for negligence, charging their son hanged himself after the government ignored his depression. The suit accuses the federal government of not helping 23-year-old Jeffrey Lucey, who committed suicide in his parents' Massachusetts basement less than a year after returning home from fighting during the invasion of Iraq in 2003.

...

After being honorably discharged from the Marine Corps on August 15, 2003, Lance Cpl. Jeffrey Lucey started to vomit daily, suffered nightmares, began to drink heavily and called himself a murderer...

You really have to weigh the question: do you have it in you to kill somebody, once you're in that moment?

DavoX

07-26-2007, 08:18 PM

Of course he has it in him, it's to save the freedom and well being of everyone :p

Kalki

07-27-2007, 01:01 AM

Actually, you sort of have to believe that to be able to do what they ask of you. That's the kind of self-motivation that a career in the armed forces requires, if that's where you've decided to be.

Sang

07-27-2007, 05:43 AM

How can they sue the government? Joining the army is a choice, perhaps he was expecting it to be all wine and roses so he got depressed - Well, suck it up, you made a choice and you can't just quit because it didn't turn out the way you expected it to. Unless you commit suicide.

DavoX

07-27-2007, 10:10 AM

No, you can join the army also because it's a job. And in all jobs there have to be things like insurances, care and all that shit.

Sang

07-27-2007, 10:26 AM

If you're gonna join the army for a quick buck then -- wtf. Even patriotic ideas make more sense than that.
"Oh hey I'm gonna join the army I'll earn money"
- "okay, what if you get shot?"
"Doesn't matter they have medics they'll patch me up"
- "What if you get shot in the head? What's money gonna matter then?"
"..."

Though really, while I think the concept of an army is necessary I think you'd have to be pretty crazy to join it :o But that's just me.

DavoX

07-27-2007, 11:58 AM

Actually joining it for a job makes more sense than joining because you want freedom in your country. Being in the army supossedly loads you in money and benefits, it's not a "quick buck".

Me, personally i wouldn't join it, it's just stupid. But then again there are really idiotic countries where they force you to join it or you'll go to jail.

Sang

07-27-2007, 12:22 PM

Actually joining it for a job makes more sense than joining because you want freedom in your country.

How? With any other job you'd be right, but in the army there's a huge risk of getting shot and/or killed I don't see how any money is worth that - so I think you need to have the "soul" for it. Meaning to have some patriotic ideas.
I'm not against patriots at all - I'm against the armchair patriot who's all like "YEAH WE MUST FREE THE COUNTRY, GO FIGHT IN IRAQ YOU BOYS" without doing anything himself. At least the "boys" are actually doing something ;)

DavoX

07-27-2007, 12:50 PM

So you think that the army is only war and shooting someone?

IceColdDuke

07-27-2007, 01:12 PM

Just to illustrate point war is not glamorous:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070726/us_nm/usa_veteran_lawsuit_dc

You really have to weigh the question: do you have it in you to kill somebody, once you're in that moment?

I do agree with you on that point. BUT if you dont get badlly injured AND you put in a full 20 years AND you invest your money properelly your set for the rest of your life.

I'm not joining the marines for a quick buck, im in the reserves my salary while im not active(so for the next 5 years) starting is only 2500 for me(E-2 PFC) so its def not for the money :).

So you think that the army is only war and shooting someone?

well its not just wearing my dress blues and looking pretty :).

Sang

07-27-2007, 02:55 PM

So you think that the army is only war and shooting someone?

If you're deployed in a warzone then, yeah. It's not like you're being deployed in a warzone to sit on your ass all day, I'd imagine you'll be scanning neighborhoods for terrorists. And maybe "protecting the civilians" but I really think that's only a secondary thing for the people in charge.

If you're not deployed in warzone you'll probably have less deadly tasks ;) Like... boot camp. Peeling potatoes. Being bored (really, a guy I know is in the army and was sent to Kosovo for 3 months where they did.. well, nothing) or doing something in a crisis following a natural disaster.

Phait

07-27-2007, 03:05 PM

Yeah I was surprised to hear of troops in Iraq bringing their gaming computers to fly Falcon 4 when things were slow. :o or even being able to play games when stationed here in the states. I never knew the military let you have a little fun and free time.

DavoX

07-27-2007, 03:29 PM

Would you be surprised if i told you some of them brought their skateboards and made ramps there?

Sang

07-27-2007, 03:50 PM

As a matter of fact I would :o But that's in their free time, isn't it? During the hours I'm sure things are a lot less fun.

Commando Nukem

07-31-2007, 02:20 AM

Good luck to you man. God bless... don't let any of these naysayers and their venom dishearten you. Just come back in one piece and tell us the TRUTH. Good luck to you sir. Semper Fi, Do or Die. :)

Phait

07-31-2007, 02:33 AM

Interesting, what venom?

Commando Nukem

07-31-2007, 02:56 AM

Interesting, what venom?

It is 12:41 AM here and I have to get up early. I am NOT going to get into a political debate with someone who has shown themselves to be polar-opposite in beliefs. You've proven you're self-serving attitude in other threads, I have no intention of repeating my stance on the situation. If you can't remember it. Let me give you a quick refresh.

The remark about Osama and Oil for one thing. Its not funny, because i've seen a lot of very brave men get spit upon, called baby killer, murderer, had ROCKS thrown at them, by people who call themselves americans.... All like-minded individuals fighting the "facist dictatorship of the Facist Bush and the Nazi VP dick cheney... (Sarcasm) Oh watch out for the NEW WORLD ORDER, its gotta jackyerfreakingfreedomofspeech and your COOKIES. OMFG. Haliburton!(sarcasm off)

War for oil = not. Bush is not going to keep the oil for himself, and if we were receiving the oil the price for gas would more then likely naturally fall. Supply and Demand.

Killing thousands of innocent Iraqies on purpose for some unknown cause (extermination?) = not. If seen some pretty screwy figures, saying we've murdered a 1/3 of the population, 600,000... 1.2 million. If this were the case there would be NO DOUBT, it'd be so painfully obvious there would be no doubt or confusion amongst anyone in the free world. America doesn't do that kind of slaughter. No matter how much you hate President Bush, no, our troops have far more integrety then that.

Weapons of mass destruction? Relocated, or underestimated by three administrations. In either case, some things HAVE been found buried under several feet of sand, including some aged chemical weapon stockpiles, jets, and a few light armored vehicles.

The war going badly, if you consider a shy 4000 deaths for our forces a bad number, considering the alternatives of absolute slaughter for our forces... I think thats pretty damn good. Tragic, but in the larger picture, not nearly as bad as it could be.

Do I think the TACTICS are wrong? Yes. From a military standpoint we should be securing the border here, and in Iraq. We have insurgents coming acrossed the border and stirring up trouble. Cut em off before they come in. The real reason thats not happening is because the commanders know if we put any forces near the border the Iranians will doubtless use chemical weapons... Same for the Syrians.

IN ANY EVENT. All of this from anyone, all the rhetoric, opinions, facts... Whatever is IRRELEVANT, and everyone needs to stop bringing that up. A man is going to join the military, we should give him our best wishes and NOTHING MORE. Jesus what is the matter with people, have you no respect?

Phait

07-31-2007, 03:12 AM

You've proven you're self-serving attitude

How so?

The remark about Osama and Oil for one thing.

The media hasn't even seriously focused on Osama in what seems years. It leads us/me to think the priority has seriously shifted.

Killing thousands of innocent Iraqies on purpose for some unknown cause (extermination?) = not.

Others may claim/see this happening but I have not said anything related to killing of innocents.

A man is going to join the military, we should give him our best wishes and NOTHING MORE. Jesus what is the matter with people, have you no respect?

Sure, but it's inevitable opinions are going to enter. I wish anyone entering the best, however if their motivations appear even in the least questionable it's good to give thought to.

Commando Nukem

07-31-2007, 03:18 AM

How so?

The media hasn't even seriously focused on Osama in what seems years. It leads us/me to think the priority has seriously shifted.

Others may claim/see this happening but I have not said anything related to killing of innocents.

Sure, but it's inevitable opinions are going to enter. I wish anyone entering the best, however if their motivations appear even in the least questionable it's good to give thought to.

Fair enough. :)

Phait

07-31-2007, 03:21 AM

Nice cop out

http://img61.imageshack.us/img61/1025/copoutlo7.jpg

Commando Nukem

07-31-2007, 04:22 AM

Nice cop out

http://img61.imageshack.us/img61/1025/copoutlo7.jpg

I still stand by what I said in regards to the war. Is it possible that I can agree to disagree with someone? You stated your case, okay. fine, if thats what you're actually saying then okay. If not, we can take this to PMS, because the only two places opinions TRULY need to be in this thread are in our minds or in a private message. This is about ICD joining, not about the war, but if people are gonna make remarks then im going to rebuttle those remarks. In either case im not getting into a six hour marathon debate with you. It'll do neither of us any good and it doesn't fix the situation to bitch about it does it? No.

Again, good luck to ya ICD.

Phait

07-31-2007, 02:14 PM

I understand, but merely quoting me didn't help, thus my reply. We'll leave it at that.

Waiter

07-31-2007, 03:14 PM

marines are the ones that go in first and the other branches clean up after us :).

You mean and collect the pieces and send your name tags home? ... ;)

I did my time in the navy, but back then it was very hard to get away from it if you didn't want to. A friend of mine got off by not showing up to the tests and then when he got a letter demanding a reason for it he replied something like "I haev forgotted it".

Nowadays it's almost hard to get a place in Sweden if you want to do youir military service, the complete opposite situation to back then.

Commando Nukem

07-31-2007, 03:29 PM

You mean and collect the pieces and send your name tags home? ... ;)

Marines have really good combat records. They've done some of the toughest jobs, with some of the worst fighting conditions, with a remarkable success rate. and when we first went into Iraq the military as a whole was kicking the Saddams militarys ass so bad they had trucks carrying the "gibs".

Sang

07-31-2007, 04:16 PM

But things have changed since then - cars are exploding everywhere and the soldiers are dropping like flies and nobody is getting to the source of the problem.

Commando Nukem

07-31-2007, 06:00 PM

But things have changed since then - cars are exploding everywhere and the soldiers are dropping like flies and nobody is getting to the source of the problem.

"cars are exploding left and right" ... wow I feel really bad for the Iraqi soccer team then, must be hard for them to get out of the country for their big games. Another thing, Bagdahd is not Iraq... Most the rest of Iraq is pretty much peaceful. Infact i've heard repeatedly that the patrols can get a little tedious and boring, the soldiers really have to fight to stay focused during the long stretches of silence.

The problem really lies with the border, as was discovered not too long ago the accuracy of the enemy has gone up in several of the latest encounters,implying a large degree of training, and that the likely suspect is Iran. I don't know how those bastards haven't been labeled hostile and been engaged. We're letting these guys mess up this situation, taking the blame for it, and then not doing anything about it.

peoplessi

07-31-2007, 08:16 PM

Commando Nukem

07-31-2007, 10:39 PM

Who supplied Afghanistans Al-Qaida with weapons in the first place? Who supported Saddam Hussein and made sure he got in power in Iraq? Seems like these problems haven't really arisen by themselves.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Cyclone

and? Make a freaking point. We get it, its OUR FAULT. I GOTCHA. I've heard it a hundred thousand millions times. Got it. Understood, America put itself in this situation.

So what are you saying by that? Where does that line of reasoning take you? Nowhere! Its a live-in-the-past blame game. We're not gonna sit down and live with the mistake, we're going to fix it, or rather the people of the armed services are going to fix it.

and even with all that said, we helped Al qaeda, and they want to attack us? HELL NO. We helped Saddam and he wanted to turn on us? HELL NO. Thats bullshit.

DavoX

07-31-2007, 11:29 PM

So i kill a youngster but it's no longer the present ,it's the past, let's forget it :p

Also you're not "fixing" it, it's all a revenge for what they did on 9/11, regardless of what everyone says, it's all about the ego of USA, you have to face that too, USA got their asses kicked that day when they thought nothing could ever touch them. While i totally loathe the killing of innocent people, i think it was a reality check for USA government, even so...they didn't learn.

Commando Nukem

07-31-2007, 11:33 PM

So i kill a youngster but it's no longer the present ,it's the past, let's forget it :p

-sigh- poor analigy, we helped Alqaeda against the russians (communism) one evil over the other. and we helped Iraq against Iran. We chose one evil over the other.

However Davox... Lets say you DID kill a child. and their family gets a little pissed off and starts murdering everyone you know(people who had nothing to do with it (we can assume this is akin to the attack in Europe...)) and starts after you... You gonna fight? You gonna give in and let them murder your ass?

I'd think the answer would be no. But maybe im wrong. :)

DavoX

07-31-2007, 11:35 PM

Well i would damn sure get the ass of the person that did it, not other innocent people included.

Commando Nukem

07-31-2007, 11:46 PM

Well i would damn sure get the ass of the person that did it, not other innocent people included.

I like how you're implying our troops are mudering children and innocent civilians on purpose. In case you haven't noticed children and "innocent civilians" look a lot like the enemy we're fighting. Our enemy isn't honorable enough to wear a uniform or to keep civilians out of the way. You can argue this left and right, up down and into aback alley. But the bottom line is I just shoved your analogy back in your face. This is a war of Kill or be killed. Thats not fear mongering or being a war lover. To be honest I wish the whole damn thing never happend. I think we all do, for different reasons... and thats both the beauty and curse of the free world is we can have different opinions.

ICD isn't someone I know too well, but i'd figure that those of you who do would have at least somewhat genuine fear at the real chance he might not come back. Im not saying hes gonna die, theres thousands of troops and the chance is low, but real none the less... So just in case, this is not a good way to send someone off. This is what supporting the troops is about. You degrade their job by saying things akin to the implication that they are killing civilians on purpose, or for fun. Frat-esque jokes (OhMYGOD Naked piled men is so horrible compared to beheadings and having your hands chopped off innit) at Quantonimo Bay aside, our troops are generally good people doing the right thing. I've seen dozens of implications of our troops using horrible weapons and tactics... turned around and found out that the opposite was in fact true... For instance, the "fact" that our troops are using depleted uranium because of a "snake baby" being born... Its not actually true, the child was born with a genetic skin disease where the eye-lids are inverted and the skin grows about 10 times faster then it does on a normal person.

Thats why any doubts on the war, or the conduct of our troops should be tabled for this occasion, its not a nessisary thing to have in here.

edit: in addition i'd like to point out if it was NOT your intention to imply our troops are killing innocent people then I want you to tell me exactly (remember this was a metaphor we were using here?) what you meant in real terms.

Phait

08-01-2007, 12:17 AM

I like how you're implying our troops are mudering children and innocent civilians on purpose.

Unless I'm blind, I like how you're implying he's implying "our troops are murdering children and innocent civilians on purpose" :confused: Where?

Commando Nukem

08-01-2007, 12:27 AM

Unless I'm blind, I like how you're implying he's implying "our troops are murdering children and innocent civilians on purpose" :confused: Where?

"Well i would damn sure get the ass of the person that did it, not other innocent people included."

We're talking about a METAPHOR. If he had killed a child (what apparently is akin to us siding with Al Qaeda and Iraq... As he was replying to my post.) --- somehow this has something to do with why Al Qaeda attacked the USS COLE, The WTC and finally destroyed them on 911, along with numorous other incidents(chinese embassys being bombed...etc)... Meanwhile Saddam ignored all of the UN resolutions, made threats and previously had slaughtered the kurrds. we went in there with approval of congress, a congress that had also been briefed by Bill Clinton on the "real" threat Saddam posed. As well as the intelligence of 30 other nations. Now here we are, in the middle of a war of attrition... The terrorists want the americans to just crumble, and leave... And the best way to get us to do that is to imply we're killing innocent civilians (apparently something Davox is trying to imply by saying "i'd be damn sure to go after the person that did it, and not the other innocent people included" Which at last check was exactly what we're doing. We're trying to stop the terrorists from taking over Iraq, if we leave, or stop they can say they won that fight, take over, and put the Iraqies back under the TOTAL tyrranny they lived in under Saddam, only it'll be a lot worse for them. So we have to fight, we have to win, and our troops know what they're doing. They're not killing innocent people intentionally, one or two of them might snap, but how can you blame them, with all the shit they see everyday?

To not be swayed into some secondary debate or disscussion MY POINT has been this whole time, that this kind of thing has no place in this thread. Why do we need any of the political remarks, snide or not, in this thread? But on that same token I won't sit there, read that bullshit and then not rebuttle it. Sometimes its worth it to stomach it, but not when theres shit like this going around about someone joining the military.

Phait

08-01-2007, 12:30 AM

Davox said he would go after the guilty and not the innocent. Where does that say our military is killing innocents?

DavoX

08-01-2007, 12:33 AM

Bla bla bla, i was going to post a lot but well...it makes no sense arging with you. You have your view i have mine. But let me tell you this, there's no honour in war. Anyone that cares about honor after coming back from killing is just a murderer "Oh i killed people now i have this medal, oh the honor! freedom!".

Commando Nukem

08-01-2007, 12:48 AM

Davox said he would go after the guilty and not the innocent. Where does that say our military is killing innocents?

Metaphor, Its a word. or more accurately, an analogy. We're talking about a war that its pretty clear he doesn't agree with, and why else would he SAY that.

"Oh I just killed a kid, its in the past who cares." in response to me saying that us helping Iraq against Iran and Al Qaeda against the Soviets is a little irrelevant now that we've stirred up the hornets nest, its a book keeping note and nothing more, to continually gouge people with it does not help us, we've learned all we can from a mistake that (lets be honest) none of the people killed on 911 had anything to do with as far as the decisions made go.

hit response was a little shallow and doesn't quite depict what I was saying, which was a truthful response to the facts. We did help Al Qaeda, and we did help Iraq. The Enemy of my enemy is my friend... A bad way to conduct yourself in the world, and I personally HATE that we did that. But then I asked to continue this metaphor and it ended with him saying that if he pissed off that family and they came to murder his family and friends... (which I was trying to imply were the victims on the Cole, and World Trade Center.), would you not stand up and fight back?

Bla bla bla, i was going to post a lot but well...it makes no sense arging with you. You have your view i have mine. But let me tell you this, there's no honour in war. Anyone that cares about honor after coming back from killing is just a murderer "Oh i killed people now i have this medal, oh the honor! freedom!".

War is Hell is a very true expression, more then either of us will EVER know most likely, though I might be behind ICD, all the brave ones are fighting for something genuine. The honor isn't in the war. The honor is in the reason, the reason is to stop people from killing another 3000 people, the troops are honorable for being brave enough to do what you persecute them for doing, the reason you can do it at all is because of people who stood up, took a bullet and said "I will have my beliefs today, you will not FORCE ME to believe like you do." Which is exactly what we came to this country for, and it is exactly what we're fighting against today. Anyone who cannot cut through the bullshit and SEE THAT is a fool.

Theseus314

08-01-2007, 07:00 AM

You're a bit of a chickenhawke Commando Nukem no?

Why not enlist yourself.

Sang

08-01-2007, 07:37 AM

But let me tell you this, there's no honour in war.

I don't think this applies to every war. Surely throughout the course of history, people have fought wars for honorable purposes. I don't know, I think the US liberating this continent from the nazis was pretty honorable and the same thing goes for various uprisings and revolutions.

I think a war can be called honorable if you're fighting for a good reason. Taking land or stealing resources = not a good reason -- liberating people (by, for example, dethroning an inhuman tiran) = good reason.

peoplessi

08-01-2007, 04:45 PM

War fought in defense of own continent is honourable, offensive wars are not.

Commando Nukem

08-01-2007, 07:44 PM

You're a bit of a chickenhawke Commando Nukem no?

Why not enlist yourself.

Do they take diabetics with breathing problems? I can't do more then three miles before I start breathing extremely heavily, and I do exercise. I just don't have the best of times walking around a lot.

Think about that smartass. Im not gonna risk being a liabillity for my squad if I get sent to Iraq. Bad enough the enemy wants to murder my ass, be even worse if I passed out and put a bunch of people in danger, besides which I doubt type 2 diabetics are allowed into the service. and yeah, im freaking scared of going, but not for a selfish reason like "I don't wanna die"... Theres not a damn thing about that I can do, I could die five seconds after I post this for all I know, theres nothing you can do about dying except to try and meet it with dignity, which a lot of people don't manage, again, because its out of their hands.

If you had read what I said you would know that. Im not being a hypocrit.
I -admire- the bravery of those people. I admire the strength and the dedication it TAKES. because I know its something I probably could NOT do. Not because of fear, but because I have NEVER been a particularly strong person physically, and I have buckled on pressure before. Im not making excuses here, like I said, i've given it some serious thought, and im still considering it. Im trying to be a director, writer and a an animator... If that doesn't pan out, then yeah the military would be me second choice in careers. Its a realistic, attainable goal. In fact theres a reason the draft is no longer in effect. Taking anyone risks the lives of everyone. I think that if you want to join the service it should be a choice made after much though. It takes a lot of strength and power to be able to shoot at someone to kill them, or to take the beating of bootcamp (in the marines at least).

and beyond all that, a chicken hawk is someone who has dodged the military in the past, or is not of good moral standing whilst speaking about it. I have done no such thing. But I am neither physically or mentally ready to be a member of the military. I can't even shoot a rat without being bothered by it. I have taken on a new exercise and diet to lose weight and have considered this a first step towards the route that could take me into the military. However if you're going to chickenhawk me, what about you? Just because you're "anti-war" means you don't have any obligation to the military? Thats bullshit. Don't try to imply im a hypocrit for not having served just because I am pro-military. I am not pro-war, I am pro-doing-the-right-thing, and right now, the right thing is staying in Iraq and fixing the situation.

and futhermore, from wikipedia(second and third paragraphs):

"The term was first applied to vocal supporters of military action who were perceived to have used family connections or college deferments to avoid serving in previous wars, particularly the Vietnam War. In current usage, the label is used almost exclusively to describe ardent supporters of the Iraq War who have themselves never been in combat; it is seldom if ever used with respect to supporters of the (more broadly supported) war in Afghanistan as such. Those who use the term are generally but not always on the anti war political left; political right in favor of military action are generally but not always on the receiving end of the insult. The label is not usually applied to women (who are barred by law from serving in combat). People who use the term have not necessarily been in the military themselves; people labeled "chickenhawks" have sometimes served in the military, but have not seen combat.

Critics argue that the term represents an ad hominem argument, that it is historically unsound, that it is inconsistently applied, and/or that it suggests ideas that are contrary to fundamental American principles, such as the ability to have an opinion or support war without needing to serve in the military."

War fought in defense of own continent is honourable, offensive wars are not.

Yeah, its a good thing are attacks in Iraq and Agphganistan were defensive in nature. Pre-emption does not nullop defensive. Though I personally think we should have gone for Iran first as they are far more of a threat then Saddam Hussein, thats beside the point npw. The conflict is on and that is that.

IceColdDuke

08-01-2007, 11:37 PM

Commando Nukem
Hoorah Sir :).

You're a bit of a chickenhawke Commando Nukem no?
Why not enlist yourself.

If youve ever been to MEPS(which you deffinetelly have not), they DQ you for everything and with his medical problem he def wouldn't have been able to serve. I don't know Commando Nukem at all, but I respect him for backing up the troops.

What I don't get is: why people bash the troops INSTEAD of the politictions?

DavoX

08-02-2007, 11:16 PM

We're not bashing the troops, but the troops that enlist for romantic reasons.

And yes, the "politictions" have the fault.

thefly

08-03-2007, 12:31 AM

I'd join the military if it paid more. The pay scale is pretty jewed down compared to other US government jobs.

Sang

08-03-2007, 06:55 AM

We're not bashing the troops, but the troops that enlist for romantic reasons.

It's not really "bashing" - just questioning their values and motivations.

Commando Nukem

08-03-2007, 10:54 PM

We're not bashing the troops, but the troops that enlist for romantic reasons.

And yes, the "politictions" have the fault.

Love is romantic, sometimes its rough, sometimes it can be encompassed in violence, but LOVE is romantic, love of your family, love of your country, and its ideals, and love for your fore-fathers. For the most part these are the reasosns people join, and continue to re-sign for another tour... and another, and another... I've seen dozens and dozens of men come back with limbs blown off, and instead of being down, depressed, defeated, and angry (as the far left would just LOVE to see them to use a leveraging point, like in Vietnam), instead of that, they're full of life, ready to go... and they want to go BACK even with their wounds and scars, they want to go back and help their fellow soldiers and marines. This is a love, and yes in certain respects its romantic, but its probably one of the truest forms of love, and most importantly RESPECT we have left.

How many newly-graduated military personell have you met? Its insane to see how sharp, trim, confident and respectful they are. Before they were slouchy, smirkful, chin down not nessacarily very confident or disciplined... Afterword all of that does a 180, they have focus,direction...dedication. I think all americans could benefit just from the marine bootcamp experience. The way it seems to change a person is amazing.

It's not really "bashing" - just questioning their values and motivations.

Anyone who would question the moral values or motivations of a soldier or marine in a generalised sense is a fool. They teach to you a mindset that focuses on bringing out the best qualities. Discipline, respect, honor. They aren't the ones that go around spitting on people. They, infact, take that spitting and keep walking. A lot of people might turn and spit back, or start cussing out those people, or maybe even start throwing punches... They just shrug it off and keep walking.

Do you have anything concrete to question? A couple of soldiers have done bad things, and they've been taken care of. Those are the disgraceful few. But they are a very small minority in the armies of today.

thefly

08-04-2007, 12:41 AM

We're not bashing the troops, but the troops that enlist for romantic reasons.

That's a bit of a contradictory sentence.

Theseus314

08-04-2007, 07:42 AM

Love is romantic, sometimes its rough, sometimes it can be encompassed in violence, but LOVE is romantic, love of your family, love of your country, and its ideals, and love for your fore-fathers. For the most part these are the reasosns people join, and continue to re-sign for another tour... and another, and another... I've seen dozens and dozens of men come back with limbs blown off, and instead of being down, depressed, defeated, and angry (as the far left would just LOVE to see them to use a leveraging point, like in Vietnam), instead of that, they're full of life, ready to go... and they want to go BACK even with their wounds and scars, they want to go back and help their fellow soldiers and marines. This is a love, and yes in certain respects its romantic, but its probably one of the truest forms of love, and most importantly RESPECT we have left.

Recent reports have suggested that the opposite is true for many. I just read an article in the London Guardian that talks of vastly increased stress and alcoholism from veterans.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/military/story/0,,2140805,00.html

From the sounds of things, war isn't nearly as fun as it looks in movies.

Commando Nukem, you did talk of how you feel that you're too weak for combat duty, but the armed forces have many many more career paths than pure combat, especially in an environment such as Iraq, where there is a real need to create a reliable infrastructure on bases and such. Why not go do that sort of thing?

Usurper

08-04-2007, 09:01 AM

"cars are exploding left and right" ... wow I feel really bad for the Iraqi soccer team then, must be hard for them to get out of the country for their big games.
Just wanted to point out that this was about the worst comeback ever seen on this forum. The Iraqi soccer team, being made up of Sunnis, Shiites, and Kurds, is not safe anywhere in Iraq, and as such, has not lived in Iraq for months. They live, train, and play outside of Iraq. I guess that's better than being tortured by Saddam's sadist son, but it speaks volumes about the state of the nation over there.

peoplessi

08-04-2007, 09:45 AM

It is silly to think Iraq will become decent Democratic nation in few years, few decades maybe. Iraq war was fought for wrong reason, but once you go there, there is no turning back or there will be nothing left after numerous civilwars. So the right thing is to stay there, finish what you've started. You had your changes in the 90's to finish Saddamn, but you choose not to.

I've met numerous militarypersonnel, I have sergeants and captains in my family. Still I don't romantize military, even if in Finnish army you aren't going have to face danger of life - withouth choosing so, Peacekeeping. We have mandatory militaryservice here in Finland, it is a good experience. It doesn't match the well trained professional army's in every single sector, since professional army does it - well professionally, and the choose to do so. Also it has something to do with the money, yeah, US spends $439.3 Billion yearly vs. Finlands $2.8 billion. I am one of those who demand more money for your military.

http://www.mil.fi/perustietoa/talvisota_eng/index.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_war

peoplessi

08-04-2007, 09:47 AM

and? Make a freaking point. We get it, its OUR FAULT. I GOTCHA. I've heard it a hundred thousand millions times. Got it. Understood, America put itself in this situation.

So what are you saying by that? Where does that line of reasoning take you? Nowhere! Its a live-in-the-past blame game. We're not gonna sit down and live with the mistake, we're going to fix it, or rather the people of the armed services are going to fix it.

and even with all that said, we helped Al qaeda, and they want to attack us? HELL NO. We helped Saddam and he wanted to turn on us? HELL NO. Thats bullshit.

I don't approve what Al Qaeda did, not by a long shot. I have relatives living in the US. Cold war was time of paranoia between two big nations, and it did fuel a lot of what is going out now. Childish to think everything came out of nowhere.

Sang

08-04-2007, 09:57 AM

Childish to think everything came out of nowhere.

He didn't say that anywhere as far as I know, though. :confused:

DavoX

08-04-2007, 11:27 AM

That's a bit of a contradictory sentence.

Not really, no.

"Troops" alone means ALL TROOPS, while "troops that join for romantic reasons" is about a specific group.

But yeah if you want to be needlessly nitpicking, go ahead, be my guest.

thefly

08-05-2007, 12:57 AM

But why would you even feel the need to "bash" a sub-group of people who volunteer for a job in the first place? What is the point in that?

DavoX

08-05-2007, 01:16 AM

Commando Nukem

08-05-2007, 04:08 AM

I don't really know what "bashing" is, i'm sorry, english isn't my language. I'm just taking it as "criticing something". And noone volunteers for a job saying "I'm going to mop this floor for my country!"

Theres a wee bit of a difference between your example and what a troop does. They DO do it for their country, they're the military of that nation, yes they always have other motives (Paying bills, education...etc). But a lot of them do it because they love their country... Remember, a janitor isn't likely to die from mopping the floor.

A soldier can die from: getting shot, having malfunctions in the air and crashing, crashing whilst on the road, getting blown up, kidnapped tortured and murdered, hitting an IED and dying from shrapnel wounds, having a child strapped in explosives walk up to them and kill them with an explosion.

They can't JUST do it for a self-fufilling reason like "I need to payz da billz" or "I wantz meez sum edjucaiten."

Doing it to help protect the country is a primary reason to join the military and it is the primary reason that a lot of them do it, its also part of the reason they can keep going with such a positive attitude even after losing limbs. Its selfless and it gives them an energy.