The loss of independent entitlement

[Phait]

My thoughts on a sickening marriage trend.

I have noticed a common and upsetting trend at a flight simulation community I participate with online. As we are all hobbyists who virtually fulfill our dreams of flight, we recognise that sometimes to better our experience, we need to buy another "toy" or piece of gear - whether it's a flight controller, head-tracking device, bigger monitor, 7.1 surround sound speakers, whatever it may be. Not much different than a weekend golfer buying a more accomodating club bag or swing training device. Not much different than a movie buff buying a bigscreen HD TV for a better sense of that theater experience. We all have our hobbies, our past-times, and sometimes we spend a little more to accomodate these leisures, it's all fine.

A common posting at the simulation forum begins something like this:

JetDude: oh man I'd love to buy that but I'll have to swing it past the wife first http://x.myspace.com/images/blog/smileys/chipper.gif
or
JetDude: no way my wife wouldt let me buy that!

It's also not just in gaming or general hobbyist forums that I've noticed this, but also professionals in the music, video and design fields who need extra gear to get their work done, to be more efficient (a new computer perhaps), or to be more accomodating to clientelle (music producer needing rackmount processors or better microphones, etc.). Time and time again, that "wife" word shows up.

Firstly, I had no idea marriage ultimately meant your wife becomes your second mother and manages what you can or cannot spend your own hard-earned cash on. I find this disturbing, actually. Here we have people who put in at work day after day to pay for bills, eat and have a place to sleep and fulfill all these life obligations -- only to entirely submit their rightfully earned privileges to afford, to have fun -- to their second mother. Hey, the wife says so - and if I want to keep her happy, so be it! Right?

Suddenly, these marriages seem awful similar to signing the dotted line and raising your hand, spouting some vows and congratulations, you're in the military! Never question your commander and always obey or face the consequences! What a very weird turn love has taken under the guise of marriage. Marriage is up and down, give and take, laugh and cry - but for the long haul - which is why people marry in the first place - harmony. I respect you, and you respect me, even in the hardest of times.

The way I see it, that respect has slowly deterioated the instant your spouse tells you what you can or can't do with your own money. Who punched in, worked 8, 10, 12 hours, punched out, came home and got a paycheck the next week? YOU did. (EDIT: I'm not saying wives don't work, just keeping perspective of the husband here - and it can be totally reversed) Is the paycheck in the name of your wife? No, it is in your name. It is your money. It is the same with the other spouse as well - let her spend her own money on what she wants or needs, and if it's an out of control issue - then and only then should you open your mouth out of your general care of one's welfare - mentally or otherwise.

Since marriage is built upon a mutual harmony, I recognize many couples pool together their income because for some, it is an easier way to manage the obligatory expenses of life. But what seems to happen more often than not, is the line begins to blur and anytime one or the other person buys something for themselves, it has to go through some ridiculous approval process because they both decided to practically own eachother's money. And then problems arise, and perhaps one thing leads to another and before you know it they divorce and run off with half the other's money and maybe a limb or two. Clearly, the smarter thing to do is keep your money to yourself. You split on bills and other necessities, and what you have left, nobody should tell you what to do with it.

It's one thing to be dependent on another emotionally, but financially? Be smart, keep it independent.

[Joe Siegler]

I contemplated not approving this, because I know the trouble this will eventually cause. Only let it go because it's reasonably well thought out.

However...

Get older. Get married. You'll learn. Or maybe not. Having that kind of attitude tells me you don't have much respect for one's spouse. You don't do it for a ball and chain reason. You do it OUT OF RESPECT. You do it because you respect your spouse's opinion, and don't want to run over them with a horrendously childish "It's my money, and I'll do what I want".

[Phait]

I have a nice 2 pages of this going at another forum, it's pretty interesting seeing the replies.

It all boils down to opinion. My money/your money is not childish at all, it's recognising boundaries that nobody else should have a say in unless you have some mutual agreement. Sure, it seems most marriages make finance a mutual thing to share for ease and I don't have a real problem with that, but who is anyone to tell me what to do with my money?

I don't believe in marriage, so your suggestion will only be partially fruitful (maybe :hhg:).

The points made at the other forum where that, especially if you have a family or other big obligations, you can't foresee far into the future to justify some current purchases, so this is why spouses consult eachother. Fair enough. While I'd welcome advice from a girlfriend/friend/parent/relation/stranger, it's only fair to treat them how I would want to be treated - if it's your money, I don't mind. If we're living together and you split on the bills and you're not in some debt because of severe negligence, I couldn't care less if you buy 30 pairs of shoes :D

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

When one gets married, the phrasing changes from 'mine' to 'ours.' Especially in relation to big purchases (according to the families income).

[Phait]

I can see that being cool with certain things that you both contribute to like a house, budget, new fridge, but when it comes to one's leisures and spare time expenses, if the important stuff is already covered, let it be.

[DavoX]

If you want to have a healthy marriage, you'll be the man, the provider, thus you'll do whatever you want with your money as long as you provide food, roof, healthy environment and love to the family.

Believe me, when your wife knows that she's in control of you, it's over. On the other hand if you have enough money to spend it on something you want, then go ahead and do it, but without asking for permission first, because it's most likely she'll say no if she's used to control you. If she's used to you being independant on your own stuff, she'll find it hard to get in the middle.

You can see that people say "it's for respect to the wife" but why can't the wife respect our thoughts as well when we want to buy something for us? Seriously.

[Xgthug]

If I were married, I wouldn't spend my days at work thinking
about my hobbies and nerd gear.
What would make me get through another day, is thinking about my wife and how I'm more than happy to provide for us.
No offense to you or your interests, but I think that all of that should be on a much smaller scale when you have a family to support.
All I know, is that if I'm ever blessed with a woman to share my life with,
I would talk to her about everything. Especially financial things.
I wouldn't buy $200 worth of stuff without running it by her first.

Never would I split our income or give her an allowance or anything like that.
She would be my entire life. Anything she wanted, I'd go out of my way to give her.
Of course, I don't plan on having a stupid wife who spends all our money
and makes me do all the chores.
The communication should always go both ways, and there are of course compromises to be made while dealing with a spouse.
That's just my opinion, anyway.

[Joe Siegler]

I don't believe in marriage, so your suggestion will only be partially fruitful (maybe :hhg:).

I then put it to you that your comments and observations on marriage and how it's played out are invalid.

[Phait]

I know, I never said our purchases should take precedence over family etc. I'm saying, there's a boundary people should respect and not tell them how to use money that isn't their's - if everything is taken care of. I hope I don't have to repeat that a 3rd time :tinyted:

I then put it to you that your comments and observations on marriage and how it's played out are invalid.

Well that's a crock - I really don't get this "you can't have an opinion because you don't have firsthand experience". Now if I were telling people how marriages should be absolutely run, you'd have a damn good point. But this is my personal opinion - I don't need to be married to have it.

[DavoX]

Also, if you have a healthy relationship, you'll both understand and respect eachothers interests/hobbies whatever. And i feel like i must repeat Phat for people that might want to jump in: if bills, food, everything is taken care of first.

[John]

Phait I just don't think people that aren't or havent been married will truthfully understand the bond. Husbands and wives usually try not to keep secrets from eachother, and whenever they don't share the income it can be borderline "secretive". Say the husband wants to set aside some money for a car or a new toy, he has to talk to his wife first because if she isn't happy with it then do you really think he'll have much fun either way? Sure he buys his new toy but he's gonna get hell from it, and is that worth it? I don't think so, especially if you want to keep a healthy marriage. I guess it's also a matter of opinion, she wants to have her opinion heard and acknowledged, and youre really not acknowledging her opinion when you go around her to buy stuff.

Sharing is usually a key to keeping it healthy. (ofcourse like i said people that arent married usually dont fully understand and thus i probably have some things off but for the most part I think i've payed attention to many different families to understand why they share most things. It's a bond and you don't want to start breaking or bending the bond by being secretive and putting posessions ahead of your marriage.)

[DavoX]

Sure, sharing isn't the problem, bitching about what you buy is the problem if you are always providing for the family.

[John]

Well like anything else it differs with the situation and people; I don't think all wives bitch about material things.

[Phait]

Phait I just don't think people that aren't or havent been married will truthfully understand the bond.

Agree, but it doesn't mean they can't form an opinion.

Say the husband wants to set aside some money for a car or a new toy, he has to talk to his wife first because if she isn't happy with it then do you really think he'll have much fun either way?

If she isn't happy with it, what are the reasons? If he's placing the car above a mutual expense, or the care of children - then I agree, that needs to be sorted out. But if that is not the case, an understanding/communication needs to come about as to why she'd be unhappy with a purchase rightfully his own.

and youre really not acknowledging her opinion when you go around her to buy stuff.

That's just my point, you shouldn't have to "go around" - it's your money, it was earned from your blood/sweat/tears/whatever - it's just like I said, it seems (these) husbands are making their wives authority figures. What happened to equality?

or bending the bond by being secretive and putting posessions ahead of your marriage.)

You are missing the point of my article - it's not about putting possessions ahead of love, marriage family. It's just letting people spend their own damn money WHEN THEY HAVE ALREADY TAKEN CARE OF BUSINESS.

[John]

Yes but even if it isn't an issue and she's fine with it, it would be better to talk to your wife first before just buying a car and bringing it home without even saying anything to her. Yes it's *YOUR* money, but you also share the house with her do you not?

[Kalki]

Over spending on toys may take away from other priorities(stuff yet to come) mutually decided upon at the onset of the formalized relationship; savings, kids, college funds, etc. But it goes both ways, for your gaming wheel as well as her diamond earrings.

Me, I can barely get my right hand to agree on what to buy. Haven't played F.E.A.R. because whenever I reach for the store-shelf copy, it turns evil and chokes me in a non-pleasurable way. Cheap, vindictive bitch.

[DavoX]

John, this is NOT about telling her or not, it's about what she says when you are going to buy something or not buying it because you know before hand that the "witch" will say no.

And this doesn't include wives that are actually nice and like equality, this just goes for the witches that YOU let them control you..

[Phait]

Yes but even if it isn't an issue and she's fine with it, it would be better to talk to your wife first before just buying a car and bringing it home without even saying anything to her. Yes it's *YOUR* money, but you also share the house with her do you not?

I disagree. A car is a personal vehicle, it's not going to change the cohabitation of a house like ripping out a wall or doing upgrading would. Note I said personal, which means others - that's the spouse, have no need to meddle with it.

If me and a girl are gonna spend $10k on home improvement and we split it halfway, yes I'm going to make that choice a priority over something else (car/toy/whatever) I'd spend my half or quarter on, because it's based upon a mutual choice and expense. That is respect.

If we don't have something we choose to split on outside of the obligatory living expenses, either of us buying something we want or need should not be an issue whatsoever.

[Phait]

John: but you are not actually in the situation so you have no business in it
John: that is differnt
John: marriage is different
John: you can have opinions, nobody said you cant
John: theyll even be acknowledged, obviously
Phait: i dont have business in particular people's lives, i have business in my own life - thus i form an opinion of what my ideals are, not the way things should absolutely be
John: but your ideals are judging what others do in their marriages
John: when your friends online go and ask their wives before they go out and buy something, its just a marriage thing. they love their wife and they try to show it whenever they can
Phait: i observe what others do because it is something i would not want in my own
John: if they want to dettach their wives early on itll lead to problems
John: whenever you are married you are signing a legal contract that means you each share 50/50 of all the income, whatever you earn is both of yours
Phait: 'what do you think before i buy this' isn't love, it's mostly unnecessary pandering
John: legally and spiritually
John: if the two people truly love eachother then yes it can be love
Phait: exception being mutual expenses
John: if i were married and wanted to spend my money on something expensive, i would most certainly ask the woman i love what she thinks
John: and the woman i live with everyday, have sex with, etc.
Phait: if she gives me an opinion it's something to consider, but i'm not going consult her, i have my own judgement and as i said before, if its a mutual important expense, such as childs future education - then its going to be priority - because it is MUTUAL, and that is respect, that is love. any of us buying an item for ourselves is not mutual, it is for ourselves, and consulting for that is just pandering
John: if i were to see the money i earn as completely mine, not hers but MINE, it would lead to further dettachment along the years.
John: youre planning on living with this woman the rest of your life
John: theoretically
John: you want to grow old with her and share everything you can
John: obviously im not speaking in terms of YOU but in a hypothetical marraige
John: yes i understand buying something for ourselves
Phait: if it leads to detachment then theres a problem. you rightfully own that money. any money you mutually agree to share is on case by case basis, for a shared expense
John: yes you rightfully own the money but you also rightfully share the money
John: in legal terms
John: whatever she makes you share
John: and whatever you make you share
John: thats why when a guy has the financial backing and feels like pleasing his girl he'll take her shopping to buy her shit, etc. that way its totally fine for him to just buy himself whatever wants
Phait: not entirely, no. why? its my money and her money. if we have to pay for something together we pool in. then when you get divorced you give up half your ******* income? **** that
John: its legality man
John: yes i know you dont like marriage
Phait: some laws are dumb
John: you dont believe in it
John: whatever

[Paroxysm]

Phait what you are failing to realise here is that the wife may not care at all. The people know that these purchases aren't really wise purchases in their current circumstance and such a purchase would make them feel guilty. By blaming it on an external factor they are just justifying it to them selves why they can't really have it. If these people weren't married they would probably say "But I have to fix my car" or something similar.

[Phait]

Yeah perhaps, that was brought up in another forum. It's a good point. But what about the cases where it is an "issue"? That's what I'm basing my opinion on.

[DavoX]

That too, most people like to say "But my wife wouldn't let me..." so everyone knows they have a wife :S

[Scotty]

My thoughts on a sickening marriage trend.

I think this may be more of an indebtedness trend than a marriage trend.

Ppl didn't used to go into marriages with tens of thousands of college, car, and credit card debts. This amount of debt can take years/decades to pay off, and making matters worse, after getting married, a mortgage will be piled on top of all this other debt.

As such, neither person really "owns" their own paycheck anymore, their creditors own them. As spending any amount on a hobby drags out the repayment of all this debt, any such spending becomes an issue for the couple, even if one is spending out of one's own paycheck.

[Jiminator]

well, one day if you get tired of the uncertainty of dating they you might decide to get married. yes, you can continue to do whatever you want with "your" money but the foundation of a marriage is based on a partnership. so maybe you are the bread winner and your wife stays home to take care of the kids. or maybe she works a job too. You can certainly do whatever you want with "your" money, but that is not a partnership. that is also devaluing the relationship and a way that lots of men use to control a relationship, by controlling the money. so while I am sure it will be a happy marriage for you, the woman in the relationship might think it to be less so. good luck to it lasting. another concept is that of "family". Sure buying stuff may improve the family if all are in agreement and it makes you happy. On the other hand if the way that money is spent divides the family then it is a bad thing. That is why relationships are give and take. Another factor is the relative cost as compared to income. Back when I was first married we use to consult about cheap stuff. Nowadays we trust in each others discretion, spending a couple of hundred bucks is ok, as long as it is not just blowing the money. Any more than that though, its a good idea to check.,

[Phait]

Dating doesn't have to be uncertain. Look at Gene Simmons and Shannon Tweed, together for over a dozen years and not married. Marriage isn't a guarantee (I know you're aware of that).

[Jiminator]

yeah, so I don't know/care what is up with gene & shannon, the fear of commitment, fear of losing all his money, whatever. certainly many people have long term relationships, (gay couples pretty much have to...) but there is nothing certain in life. a marriage means whatever the couple makes it mean. sure many of them break up within a couple of years, but it's a little more complex than packing your bags and leaving (especially with kids). a partnership, well there's someone I like more, you won't commit, so see ya! maybe it will work for you and your girlfriend to do whatever you want whenever you want. But many people want more than that.

[Mr.Fibbles]

There is no "Mine" in "Conjugal Union." Yeah, you guys may be thinking of the saying that "What's mine is hers, and what's hers is hers" but that is not true. In a relationship, as jiminthare said, there has to be give and take; there are responsibilities for each party and they should be (relatively) equal responsibilities. So what, you work 40 hours a week and make your 40K a year; your wife keeps the house in order, raises your children, cooks you dinner every night and what ever various thing you guys agree on when you get married. My parents both work, usually. At times my mom actually made more money than my dad, but he stayed home and watched us kids. He took us to school and picked us up. He cleans the house (though that is arguable) and when he was working in the house he did the laundry. Tonight I watched my dad try to make his own dinner because he got home late. I am convinced that if my mom didn't take care of him, he would starve. If he didn't starve, he would be horribly over weight and have serious health issues. My parents each do their part of keeping the house and family together. My mom sacrificed family time because my dad wasn't making enough money to support the whole family; and my dad has taken up various jobs and works late hours to make ends meet sometimes.
But they always consult when it comes to spending money or making big decisions.
I would place money that the majority of divorces occur due to lack of respect and or trust in a relationship. When the "Bread Winner" decides that they get to spend the money however they want, there is no respect in the relationship and consequently there may be some distrust on the other side; how is he spending the money, and for whom? Relationships like that end certainly won't last.

[ShakeItBaby]

Boys and their toys lol...

To generalize somewhat, women are often most interested in practical stability and security of finances, because women tend to need more certainty in their lives than men do. Men, however, do not always feel this same pressure of seeking stability, because they figure that they can always scrape by and earn more money in the future, and so men are more inclined to spend money on entertainment and toys. The exception is when a man becomes a father, at which point his focus generally aligns more with the woman's in leaning towards security. Until that happens though, yes, there can be these clashes of interest when it comes to finances.

The moral of the story is: gay guys have the most fun. :p

[Mariamus]

Usually when you get married you have a joined echonomy, all money go to the same account and you share expenses. at least that's how it was in my marriage.

Problem was that whenever there was money left over, the ex husband would use it on computers/cell phones and stuff for himself instead of thinking about if perhaps I needed new clothes or if the kid needed something.
I could go on ranting about wanting something or other, telling him we had to save up so perhaps I could get something new.
then his computer broke down and he went out and bought a completely new one even though he had a perfectly good and working laptop to begin with.

I have no problem with my future boyfriend/husband wanting to buy something for himself, but I'm going to kick him out on his ass if he does it without even asking me if perhaps there is something I need more than he needs a bigger flat screen tv.

[Mister_Anderson]

I was hoping a female would finally come into this thread and shed some light from their perspective.

Its all down to the individual experience people, some people can make a marriage work & others can't. Its all about mutual respect & actually communicating with your partner about monetary priorities.

[Phait]

You see, thats also the problem with sharing money - someone spends essentially the money of eachother's and I think that's worse when it comes to upsetting the other.

[Mister_Anderson]

Not if theres communication, respect & understanding. Also, if you've never been married then you can never know these things for sure.

[Detharin]

The problem with your arguement is that its selfish. A marriage is a partnership. Your thinking of your income as "yours" and not as "ours", and are under the impression that whatever is left after the bills are paid is yours to spend on what you what.

What about her? What about what she wants?

Alot of times your going to hear "I have to ask the wife." Not because they need to get permission, but because they want to make sure it fits into the budget. Does the man or the women manage the finances?

Ive known quite a few men who dont even talk money with their wives, and when the wife asks for money for something needed, the husband doesnt want to say no, but really cant afford to say yes. So he says yes, and ends up behind on something.

Also there are situations where the woman handles the money, works out a budget, so "asking the wife" is more a matter of "can we afford this."

When a couple is married things become group expenditures. You get a new computer game, next time its her turn to get some dvds when there is spare money.

Realistically how long do you think a woman will want to be in a relationship with someone who spends all the spare money on himself or his hobbies, without consulting her about her wants or needs? Frankly it shows a fundamental lack of the understanding of partnership, and is probably a good indicator your not ready for marriage.

[Mariamus]

Realistically how long do you think a woman will want to be in a relationship with someone who spends all the spare money on himself or his hobbies, without consulting her about her wants or needs?

took me almost 5 years :D

[peoplessi]

Seems like your husband was a bit childish, which brings me the point not every marriage is alike. So things differ, some work, some not, the situation Phait addressed might be issue in some relations, but thinking if person does it for a job, one could address the hardware expenditure on companys account(if one owns company).

[Detharin]

I dont think i could stand 5 years of that honestly. You must be some form of saint, unless of course there are some untold stories on random evil. Such as midnight kicks in the naughty bits, bits of broken glass in the omelets, or possibly the ceremonial shaving of the eyebrows.

While all relationships are different, they still need to be based on respect. I mean how hard is it to say "Im thinking id like a BFG-9000, what do you think?"

Oohhh i almost forgot the always evil "recede the hairline." With a little nightly plucking he will think hes going bald in no time.

[Sang]

Bleh, if you ask me, that whole "heh i wont let my woman control me!! if she can control me she will no longer like me" thing is macho bullshit. Arguments - read everyone's post in this thread apart from Phait's and Davox' :p

[Mblackwell]

You have to realize when you're married everything is joint. Even if you have separate accounts, there are bills to be paid, household amenities, and on top of that any credit problems effect both people.

Every time you buy something big on your own without consulting your spouse you are completely disrespecting them. You have no idea what they may need or not need and you didn't ask. And on top of that something new might come up. If you're just going to fend for yourself anyway, you may as well get a divorce (or not get married in the first place, or even move in together). It will be cheaper for you.

Here's a few simple things to think about:

If you need new bed sheets, who pays?

If you go out to eat together, who pays?

If you need new furniture, who pays?

If new clothes are needed, who pays?

If you need to restock cleaning supplies, who pays?

If the car needs to be fixed, who pays?

If you need to buy groceries, who pays?



And now here's a big question: Let's assume you have a stay-at-home wife. Not only would she (not you) know what is actually needed for the household (in detail), but she has no "her money".


When you get into all of this complicated stuff, you realize that it greatly reduces stress if you simply have "our" money with a specific budget and consult each other before any large purchases.

[Hudson]

Phait, I think you need more experience with long term relationships if you are to understand this sort of thing. Because you're pretty far off the mark.

[DavoX]

Bleh, if you ask me, that whole "heh i wont let my woman control me!! if she can control me she will no longer like me" thing is macho bullshit. Arguments - read everyone's post in this thread apart from Phait's and Davox' :p

And 15 year olds qualify for this discussion more then adults? :p

Let me tell you that My point is slightly differen't than phait's, I DO believe that you have to tell her when you have to buy something, but she shouln't bitch about it, but then again, if you did things right from day one and you're still doing things right, she won't have a problem with you buying stuff when you tell her.

[Mblackwell]

Ever notice people that don't leave off of that attitude never seem to settle down? They might have lots of dates, but they can't seem to keep a mate. Hmm.

[Sang]

And 15 year olds qualify for this discussion more then adults? :p

Urr, unless you're married as well your opinion doesn't count either.

[DavoX]

Ever notice people that don't leave off of that attitude never seem to settle down? They might have lots of dates, but they can't seem to keep a mate. Hmm.

I've never seen that. In fact most people just want to be with someone they love for a long time, even if it's secretly inside, they want it.

And Sang, I don't see what's wrong with having a healthy relationship where there is TRUE respect to eachother, when one won't bitch about what you do because they respect your decisions.

[Sang]

And Sang, I don't see what's wrong with having a healthy relationship where there is TRUE respect to eachother, when one won't bitch about what you do because they respect your decisions.

What did that have to do with my post?

edit: anyway though

I DO believe that you have to tell her when you have to buy something, but she shouln't bitch about it, but then again, if you did things right from day one and you're still doing things right, she won't have a problem with you buying stuff when you tell her.

She has every right to bitch about it if your suggestion is stupid. Just because she loves you doesn't mean she can't refuse anything to you. I mean, sometimes my best friends tell me to "Shut up" when I get a little annoying. And they're still my friends.

Although really Davox, both yours and my opinion are worthless in this thread. You might have had a few girlfriends but marriage is an extremely different thing.

[Mr.Fibbles]

Our (collectively speaking for those who aren't married and or in the teens) opinions are important because they will effect our future or even current relationships; perhaps not valid in the sense that we have any real life experience in the situation, but we all have parents (supposedly) and (in theory) they were married at one point during out (however) short lives --15, 19, 22 whatever.
When anyone complains without valid or logical reasons, then they can be considered "bitching" and it perhaps is unnecessary. If your wife just says that you can't play games; but offers no reason, I see that as a problem. But it does come down to respect and if you don't respect your wife (or girlfriend for that matter) don't expect them to stick around. Every once in a while we all need to be smacked around and set straight again; if a hobby is getting excessive and interferes with the relationship, perhaps it is best that you not spend the money on that hobby and take your wife out to dinner or something. But if you just ignore her complaints that you don't "need" that new computer game you have been waiting 11 years to play; you are not respecting her.
Of course, if a woman doesn't let me buy DNF WID, I might have to leave her right then and there.

[Sang]

Our (collectively speaking for those who aren't married and or in the teens) opinions are important because they will effect our future or even current relationships; perhaps not valid in the sense that we have any real life experience in the situation

Well I think importance is the same as wether or not it's valid. Because if it isn't valid, it can hardly be called important, right?

So I call upon all people who have never been married before to leave the thread :p I'll do the same

[DavoX]

She has every right to bitch about it if your suggestion is stupid.

But this isn't about stupid suggestions, i'm talking about people that bitch when you buy ANYTHING. If your suggestion is stupid you DO deserve to be bitched about it. But this isn't what i'm talking about.

[Sang]

Well if they bitch when you buy anything then she's either not the right person for you, or maybe you will have to put your foot down once in a while. In this case though, we're not just talking about games or shit like that but hardware and that can be quite damn expensive - so depending on your financial situation maybe she still has the right to bitch.

[ShakeItBaby]

The solution is to just earn so much money that these issues never come up in the first place. Simple! :D

[DavoX]

Well, there are bitches that will still complain even if you're loaded...sucks doesn't it. Thank god for divorce :p

[avatar_58]

As I was saying to you before Phait - it all depends. Many people are very bad with their money, and they think "What's $500, we have the money!" without figuring in all the bills and future expenses. Sometimes that "ball and chain" may actually be a life saver in those cases.

You seem to be referring to the extreme cases however, where the woman is the bank and the man can't even buy a chocolate bar without being scolded. In that case I tend to agree - because that isn't equality now is it? If the woman is buying fancy things and the man is stuck with nothing but what his wife allows - then something is really wrong.

However nine times out of then the man is irresponsible whether or not he wants to admit it. Let's face it - guys like gadgets and toys. Thats life. ;) We tend to buy shit that we don't need just 'cause and often we get tired of them after a few months. Thats money that could have been spent on bills or for the two of you, not just yourself.

I think as long as theres a balance between spending habits then both parties should be happy. So what if she buys a nice dress, or if he wants that special tool. However you can't just expect to get what you want because "it's my money" because in reality it isn't. When you get married it's basically agreed that whats yours is now referred to as "ours".

[Phait]

The problem with your arguement is that its selfish. A marriage is a partnership. Your thinking of your income as "yours" and not as "ours", and are under the impression that whatever is left after the bills are paid is yours to spend on what you what.

What about her? What about what she wants?

I said in my article:

It is the same with the other spouse as well - let her spend her own money on what she wants or needs, and if it's an out of control issue - then and only then should you open your mouth out of your general care of one's welfare - mentally or otherwise.

But since most of it was about husband and not wife ('cause I'm a guy, I tend to write from that perspective) I see why people are missing that part. I guess I have to highlight it in red.

Alot of times your going to hear "I have to ask the wife." Not because they need to get permission, but because they want to make sure it fits into the budget. Does the man or the women manage the finances?

I also said:

Since marriage is built upon a mutual harmony, I recognize many couples pool together their income because for some, it is an easier way to manage the obligatory expenses of life. -- You split on bills and other necessities, and what you have left, nobody should tell you what to do with it.

Also there are situations where the woman handles the money, works out a budget, so "asking the wife" is more a matter of "can we afford this."

It's a good point I overlooked and mentioned on another forum. But neither my example, or your example is the concrete, absolute case, everytime. I'm speaking of one particular example where people have extra spending money left over after expenses, and they're told what to do with it. Perhaps I didn't write as clearly.


You seem to be referring to the extreme cases however, where the woman is the bank and the man can't even buy a chocolate bar without being scolded. In that case I tend to agree - because that isn't equality now is it? If the woman is buying fancy things and the man is stuck with nothing but what his wife allows - then something is really wrong.

Yes that's how I'm referring to the issue.

However you can't just expect to get what you want because "it's my money" because in reality it isn't. When you get married it's basically agreed that whats yours is now referred to as "ours".

Do. Not. Want.

I don't think it's selfish for her to keep her money independent, and same for the husband. As long as they have good financial judgement and would know if a personal purchase would be redlining their budget, knowing they'd be in hot water and couldn't afford expenses - it shouldn't be an issue. The clause that yours-becomes-ours in marriage, when it comes to finances - I simply do not agree with.

[Damien_Azreal]

Phait, I think you need more experience with long term relationships if you are to understand this sort of thing. Because you're pretty far off the mark.

Agreed.

Hell, I've been in a serious relationship for seven years, we're getting married... and I still don't understand everything.

I agree you can form an opinion, but until you've experienced the sort of feelings you have for your wife/husband... you won't understand.
Saying you can't/won't buy something until you talk about with your wife doesn't mean she has become your mommy and you need approval. It simply implies that you respect her opinions enough to communicate with her about your plans.

[ShakeItBaby]

One aspect you're neglecting, Phait, is that of major purchases and the balancing of long-term goals versus short-term gratification. Your posts indicate you are thinking small, immediate, quick fix impulse purchases only. You evidently have never had a mortgage, for example, or any sort of credit loan larger than a maxed out Visa card. That's okay for now, you're young and single, no need to look beyond the horizon too far until you're ready to settle down and get serious about your future.

A couple that plans for the future needs to think of such things as long-term housing, education for the kids, appropriate cars, savings and investments, and so on. Such larger goals don't get accomplished if the dude is off draining the dough away on a new Xbox game every week. When one partner is being mindful of the cash flow, it's often with the longer term in mind, it's not always about controlling power games to keep the boy's toys under lock and key.

[Mblackwell]

Do. Not. Want.

I don't think it's selfish for her to keep her money independent, and same for the husband. As long as they have good financial judgement and would know if a personal purchase would be redlining their budget, knowing they'd be in hot water and couldn't afford expenses - it shouldn't be an issue. The clause that yours-becomes-ours in marriage, when it comes to finances - I simply do not agree with.

Again, then don't get married or move in with someone. You may as well live alone. See post on last page.

[Jiminator]

It is the same with the other spouse as well - let her spend her own money on what she wants or needs, and if it's an out of control issue - then and only then should you open your mouth out of your general care of one's welfare - mentally or otherwise.
this does not consider income disparity, especially if the wife is a home maker and is raising kids and brings in no income.

You split on bills and other necessities, and what you have left, nobody should tell you what to do with it.
This is a single guy concept. Pay for the food, rent, phone and blow the rest as you see fit. Families will always have bills and expenses, forseen and unforseen that extend far into the future. If you do great planning then you will need 4 months income in the bank. Unfortunately most familes do not get this far.

[Mister_Anderson]

Heres an interesting statistic:

100% of Divorces start with Marriage. ;)

And I still don't think anyone can make an accurate judgement on this sort of thing unless they have actually been married.

Until that time, it will only remain an opinion....however misguided or naive that might be.

[Detharin]

OK let say the women is a stay at home mom. By your logic then money is spent how you choose and she gets none right?

OK so lets say she wants stuff. So she gets a job, so now shes working 8 hours a day so someone has to clean the house, take the kids to school, bring them home, and watch them until someone gets home. Who pays for that?

Should she pay for it because shes choosing not to do that? Well thats not fair, shes working to. So should it be paid for equally? What if shes making less than you? Should she have to pay a percentage based on how much of the total income shes bringing in? If all this costs 1000 a week, you make 75k a year and she makes 25k a year, should she pay 250 and you pay 750?

How do you divide stuff like this up?

[DavoX]

Nobody here is talking about being unfair to women or taking their rights away, seriously this thread is about one thing and ironically it's the one thing noone is talking about here.

[Destroyer]

haha your right phait women do think they have the right to control men, not just wives, but sisters, mothers friends. The key is to dont let them do it to you once, if you do then your screwed. the other day I went to best buy bought Company of heroes, and my sister went with me to best buy and shes giving me crap about wasting money on games. like WTF. So i yelled at her and told her she cannot tell me to not buy games, if she thinks she has the need to tell me what i can and cant buy, shes free to walk home.

I think men take too much crap these days. i think theres too much reverse descrimination going on.

[Phait]

Well I am not meaning to say that women in general are 'controlling', just these examples. But your post makes a generalisation.

[Destroyer]

you call it generalization i call it observation, what is the difference?
1 is science :)

[Jiminator]

divorce your sister, parents, mother's friends, etc. oh wait, you can't do it. that is what is called family. get over it. :)

[Destroyer]

haha im not complaining about them dude. Im just saying that most women just think they can tell men what to do.

[Sang]

Destroyer, you're completely contradicting yourself. First you say we "should" respect women as if we don't, then you say this:

hes giving me crap about wasting money on games. like WTF. So i yelled at her

So the day yelling at someone equals respect I might as well shoot myself.

[Mariamus]

haha im not complaining about them dude. Im just saying that most women just think they can tell men what to do.

Of course we can tell men what to do! We've got the boobs!:D

FYI, i'm just kidding, don't get your panties in a bunch.

[Jiminator]

yay boobies!

[Betelgeuse]

Of course we can tell men what to do! We've got the boobs!:D

FYI, i'm just kidding, don't get your panties in a bunch.

lol, i dunno, i can see a lot of truth in this. boobies have hypnotic powers which do effect men.

[Phait]

Only if you're wea-- hey, boobies!

[Sang]

Meh, just jerk off regularly and boobs suddenly become less attractive.

[Phait]

Really? You're weird.

[Little Conqueror]

I'm fortunate: my fiance is interested in many of the same things I am (I'm more into video games than she is, but she understands my hobbies) and is also very financially independent. I'm a bit reckless with my money (not so much wasteful as I go from paycheck to paycheck), and she's more frugal, but she doesn't like telling me what I can and can't do, and likewise for me. I don't waste money on things I can definitely do without (7.1 sound? two speakers is enough for what I do right now), so she doesn't mind loaning me money when I see something I really want but can't exactly afford. I've done the same for her, and we'd rather borrow money from one another than borrow it from a bank or other source.

Basically, an ideal marriage is like a partnership. Just because you both have independence doesn't mean you should make all the decisions by yourself.

[LeadBullet]

I'm in a similar boat as Little Conqueror. Mine has pretty similar hobbies, tastes etc across the board. Only real main differences is I prefer mostly PC games while she is mostly Pokemon\Nintendo type stuff, although she'll play a FPS or RTS now and then and she likes slapstick type anime while I'm more partial to serious ones science fiction type ones like Ghost in the Shell or Cowboy Bebop. Point being though is that neither of us really have to justify why we want things or why we like things. With that not being a problem, we only have to discuss when its not a good time for a certain purchase. So its not that hard, especially when a single purchase can be something we'll both like.

Our stuff is also separate but don't really care about passing funds back and forth as long as its not for something dumb. Also if I upgrade my PC she is probably getting free parts out of the deal, so thats a plus on her end.

Like others have said though, I imagine it every situation is different and can be whatever you want to make of it.

In regard to the expensive purchase arguments, I'd guess that clashes over that stuff only really happen when one partner thinks that there are certain important things not taken care of and that is why a sudden expensive purchase for recreational stuff is not a good idea. I figure rich people don't have that problem, so if someone says they have to run something past their wife then it probably means money is tight enough for the purchase to put a possible strain, especially of an unforeseen expense comes up like a car\appliance breaking down.

[avatar_58]

Meh, just jerk off regularly and boobs suddenly become less attractive.

"Thanks to the internet I'm bored with sex" - Fry

Seriously though I think we're all missing the point here - Mariamus has boobs. Wait..........wait no.....

[BillyD]

Meh, just jerk off regularly and boobs suddenly become less attractive.
Wrong.

[Steve]

or maybe you will have to put your foot down once in a while.
That made me laugh.

[Sang]

Wrong.

well that just means you dont jerk off enough

(for the record - yes I was kidding)

[Scream]

It all boils down to opinion. My money/your money is not childish at all, it's recognising boundaries that nobody else should have a say in unless you have some mutual agreement.



You do have a mutual agreement. It's called marriage. Why get married if you're going to continue approaching life exactly as you did when you're single? You're looking for a room-mate.

If as a couple you're so wealthy that money means nothing, of course there's no reason to run anything by anyone before making a purchase. However, very few couples are in that position, and part of the BENEFIT of marriage (or living together - same thing from this perspective) is pooling resources (one rent/mortgage payment, one set of bills etc etc - co-habitating saves a TON of money over living in two separate households - ask ANY divorced person and they will confirm that for you). With any financial benefit derived from a pooling of resources, there comes a responsibility for each party to confer with the other party before incurring an expense, especially one that isn't 100% necessary, and ONLY directly benefits one party. Forget marriage, just think of it in terms of a business arrangement where both parties are bringing something to the table, and it would work the same way. You consult with your partner before a significant purchase.

There always needs to be a balance in what purchases need to be consulted on (over a certain dollar amount etc), but SMART couples will sit down and lay down some ground rules when establishing a budget for their household.

Not sure why this should be difficult to understand, but it doesn't make sense for you to say you don't believe in something when you don't seem to understand the basis of what it's made up of. Marriage, by definition, is in part a financial agreement/arrangement. If everyone just does their own thing with their own money without any consideration for, or consultation with the other person, then you don't really have a marriage. If that's how you want to approach things personally, then your anti-marriage stance is definitely the correct one for you and you should stick with it.

[Jeff]

Once people start having a family, then they'll realize that they need to put some of their money into their kid's future or supporting them. Instead of spending it on stuff like big screen TVs, fast computers, nice cars and all that stuff that everyone dreams of having, but you have to be realistic. Could you afford all that? Probably not, because most people don't have $100,000 a year salaries, so that's where budgeting comes in.

I'd still say that if you are the only money maker in the house, and let's say you did have kids, you'd still need to run your financial decisions by someone because maybe someday someone will need something and you'll find out that you might be a little short this month because let's say something happened or you did splurge on getting that nice TV. Be that your girlfriend or whoever (if you lived with someone else. Heck could even be your roomate). I'm not saying this is you, but there are a lot of people who are in this situation.

[mysteryperfecta]

In the average marriage between two mature adults, there is an implicit/explicit discretionary spending threshold, based on income. Any expense below that threshold is left to the descretion of that person; any above should be brought to the spouse's attention (and possibly discussed). Personally, I regularly mention almost every non-vital purchase over $10-$20 to my wife, out of respect. And my income is the only one.

And if the phrase "but it's my money" is ever uttered, the marriage is likely not long for this world.

[avatar_58]

For the record Phait - I would gladly lose some of my independent entitlement if it meant being able to wake up next to someone who gave a rats ass about me. Money never really means anything to me but "a way to pay for stuff" so I wouldn't mind having to discuss purchases with someone. Hell I do that already with everyone I know when buying shit over $50.

[mysteryperfecta]

I just wanted to address this point.

Well that's a crock - I really don't get this "you can't have an opinion because you don't have firsthand experience".

In certain respects, you're right. You can have a valid opinion on many aspects of marriage that don't rely on personal experience (conclusions drawn from observation, statistics, etc). In this specific instance, your lack of personal experience cripples your argument.

Now if I were telling people how marriages should be absolutely run, you'd have a damn good point.

I think the point is, marriage didn't begin yesterday. We're not in your basement kicking around ideas for this crazy new social arrangement. You're not witnessing a "trend". Your assertion of how this specific element of marriage should work-- based on your own self-centered opinion on finance-- is presumptuous.

But this is my personal opinion - I don't need to be married to have it.

Joe didn't say you weren't entitled to an opinion-- he merely suggested that your opinion is without merit.

[0marTheZealot]

You don't piss off the person who gives you sex.

Simple
As
That.

[Phait]

Only if you think sex is important, heh.

[BillyD]

Only if you think sex is important, heh.
Anybody who doesn't is only fooling him/herself. Or a eunuch. :insomnia:

[Mister_Anderson]

http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/7059/mamaklumpja6.jpg

[Opus131]

http://www.dumpyourwifenow.com/

The only logical solution. :P

[John]

Only if you think sex is important, heh.

It's already a failed marriage if sex isn't important. That means your love life is already diminshed to nothing and it will continue to stay like that until divorce. Most people try to stay away from divorce, y'know. :p

[Mr.Fibbles]

It's already a failed marriage if sex isn't important. That means your love life is already diminshed to nothing and it will continue to stay like that until divorce. Most people try to stay away from divorce, y'know. :p
I disagree.
If sex is not the essential part of the marriage, ie it makes or breaks the relationship, the relationship could be stronger for it. There are more things in life than physical pleasure. Though it is true that if you are not physically attracted to your spouse, there isn't much to go on, but if all you do is have sex or be physically affectionate with each other there is nothing there really. Marriage, as well as the relationship leading up to it, have to be built on something besides sex.
When a relationship is all about sex and there isn't much else, it tends to fall apart because, well, sex can get old.

[John]

As I've already told phait, I was not implying that marriages are all about sex nor was I saying that it's the most important issue surrounding it.

Phait and I were discussing hypotheticals and he says he can understand if a married couple were to be completely platonic simply because neither are interested in it and are happy to live their lives sex free. Meaning they are physically able to, nothings wrong, they're married and are inlove, yet they live their entire lives without having sex and never think about it due to interest. I simply cant understand this kind of logic, I told him i could understand if they have really low sex drives or are just physically unable to (or mentally) but a *complete* lack of interest in sex with your wife/husband is very unhealthy imo whether they are both happy or not.

[Mr.Fibbles]

OK, I see your point now.
I must have missed something along the lines.

[Jiminator]

Only if you think sex is important, heh.
classic. over the centuries there may have been some cultures who did not believe sex was important.








but we will never know, because they all died out...

[Phait]

I mean beyond procreation, smartass :p

[John]

But that was mentioned in the conversation we had and from that point of view, no they wouldn't ever give birth.

[Commando Nukem]

Marriage is an agreement, partnership and IS communication. I've seen three seperate marriages fall apart because there was
A. No love.
B. Someone was unhappy in the marriage, and there was a wall built up over time.
C. No communication(again a wall was formed.)

Without communication on everything you will start to generate gaps in the relationship, and lose the trust. Marriage isn't something just anyone should do, its a bond that requires COMMITMENT, and yes, that means sacrificing for your significant other. If one of you is uncomfortable with something, then there needs to be disscussion, understanding, resolution, and finally agreement on a solution that makes everyone happy.

Sex is part of the bond, part of the agreement. To HAVE and to HOLD as long as you both shall live... In other words, to be there for eachother in everyway "In sickness and in health." Sex is a part of that, but it is not really one of the bigger ones, there are far more important things in a relationship then sex. Funnily enough if you let sex take over, it becomes a lustful act and that can damage your relationship ten fold.

Communication, communication,communication.

[Sang]

If a relationship is built entirely on love I don't think

B. Someone was unhappy in the marriage, and there was a wall built up over time.
C. No communication(again a wall was formed.)

these things will occur. And I'm sure sex will follow as well, unless there is some fysical disability or so that prevents that.

[Opus131]

It's already a failed marriage if sex isn't important.

It's a failed marriage is she can use sex as an extortion tool, which is something most people here seem perfectly fine with...

[John]

It's a failed marriage is she can use sex as an extortion tool, which is something most people here seem perfectly fine with...

Yes but I was talking about if each person just isn't interested in having sex with the other, and they're married. Don't find anything odd with that?

[Commando Nukem]

Yes but I was talking about if each person just isn't interested in having sex with the other, and they're married. Don't find anything odd with that?

Well unless they share some religious belief about not having sex to keep the body pure or something... Yeah, its generally a sign that the marriage is over. My mom, and step dad were together for just over ten years, and are technically still married because they can't afford to divorce... but for the last four years of "being in the same house" they were in different bedrooms, not talking... This is what happens when selfish spending is rampant. Step-dad was not smart with his money, and my mom bailed him out of HUGE debt (40,000 dollars in groceries) twice. My mom used a large chunk of her inheritance to bail him out. A few months later he was already 20,000 dollars deep into debt, buying groceries. That was because instead of using his paycheck to buy the groceries (my mom paid the house payment), he was debiting them, and using his money to buy other items...collectibles, toys, videos, ciggerettes (Up the ass).

I hope this gives a real-world illustration as to why having a "my money, your money" mentality, and not communicating, is dangerous in marriage. It can be so unwise infact, that it can get you stuck in a marriage due to debt.

[Mariamus]

Damn, your stepdad is an ass. How much would it cost your mom to get divorced from him since they can't afford it?

My divorce cost me 5.500 USD because I had to take part of the debt that the ex-husband had before we even got married.
I'm still paying off on that debt. but in about 10-15 months i'll be done with paying it... and then i'll take up another loan and perhaps take a trip to the states with my sister and my kid ^_^

But anyway, your mother could say that she wants to get divorced, and then she could tell him that he needs to repay the money she used to bail him out of his binge shopping.

[Phait]

Thats another problem with marriage - you get divorced you have to pony up for the other's debt, or you take eachother's money... wtf?

[Mariamus]

Thats another problem with marriage - you get divorced you have to pony up for the other's debt, or you take eachother's money... wtf?

The problem with my situation is that when I got married to him I didn't know how much debt he had. His debt was over 45.000 USD, and if I had known that he owed that much money, I would have gotten a prenup. My personal debt was 2.000 USD that I had used to pay my drivers license.
We did loan some money here and there, but with the monthly amount we used to pay the whole debt, it would have come down to nothing.
When we got divorced, the whole debt debt had been paid down to 20.000 USD...

[Phait]

O_O

I'll never be in debt.

[John]

Gotta have/spend money first to be in debt. :D

[Opus131]

Gotta have/spend money first to be in debt. :D

Better get married quick then before making any cash. At least with a wife on your side you won't be able to squander your capital, though she might in your place.

[Phait]

Gotta have/spend money first to be in debt.

Naturally.

[Jiminator]

hrm, not sure how someone can get into major debt buying groceries, we may spend a couple of hundred a week, that's about 11K at most per year. For 40K that must be a huge family....

[Commando Nukem]

Damn, your stepdad is an ass. How much would it cost your mom to get divorced from him since they can't afford it?

My divorce cost me 5.500 USD because I had to take part of the debt that the ex-husband had before we even got married.
I'm still paying off on that debt. but in about 10-15 months i'll be done with paying it... and then i'll take up another loan and perhaps take a trip to the states with my sister and my kid ^_^

But anyway, your mother could say that she wants to get divorced, and then she could tell him that he needs to repay the money she used to bail him out of his binge shopping.

We can't get 500 together, let alone 5000. The debt is pretty much delt with now that we split up, but the income is a problem. We both moved into mobiles in different parts of washington, but the problem is is that allthough our houses were basically less money then what we foreclosed with, we used it up on repairs because we had to buy these mobiles really fast. (moving day was litereally one day, we moved out and then into our new home within about 10 hours.), so we didn't have time for an inspection or anything, and now we're basically trapped in problem-houses.

You know its bad when life savings are being tapped for birthdays, christmas, emergency purchases...

[ShakeItBaby]

This thread is devil's advocating itself in showing that the issue is more than just generalizing about marriage and control games. A key point that keeps coming up is that the problems are more about individual idiots who can't or aren't responsible enough to manage their finances and the effects that such carelessness can have on relationships. Fools who can't keep their spending under control shouldn't commit to stable relationships in the first place.

[DavoX]

Or it could also mean that NO ONE can give out an opinion on the matter, as all marriages are bound to be different depending on the situation, people, etc.

[Commando Nukem]

Or it could also mean that NO ONE can give out an opinion on the matter, as all marriages are bound to be different depending on the situation, people, etc.

Actually anyone can give out there opinion... based on there experience. Anyone can ARGUE that communication is not THE most important thing in a marriage... But no one can argue that its absence destroys marriage.

[thefly]

My thoughts on a sickening marriage trend.


I thought marriage was the willful giving up of independent life for that of a bonded pair existence. And I find "entitlement" to be a thumb sucking word.

[Phait]

I dunno, never saw it that way. I can't see very far, I dunno why...

[Opus131]

I thought marriage was the willful giving up of independent life for that of a bonded pair existence. And I find "entitlement" to be a thumb sucking word.

By bonded pair existence you mean share the joys of fulfilling your wife's dreams.

[Joe Siegler]

I dunno, never saw it that way. I can't see very far, I dunno why...

You know why. You just don't want to admit it.

I submit to you that this thread has run its course - there's nothing further to discuss.

[Phait]

No, I don't know why.

Why do you always assume I know what the issue is? That really hurts, cause I don't.

[Commando Nukem]

By bonded pair existence you mean share the joys of fulfilling your wife's dreams.

Well, that sounds like a wee bit of bitter experience to me. Being humble makes the truth stick out far more then being itently opinionated Opus. :)

No, I don't know why.

Why do you always assume I know what the issue is? That really hurts, cause I don't.

Alright, then i'll be the impolite one here... You're fast to assume you understand when you do not, this is usually referred to as arrogance, but it could just be impassioned ignorance... and you won't admit that in a general sense you are incorrect on some occasions until its absolutely blatant. Im not trying to be insulting here, but to me this seems to be the case. You continued to argue with a good deal of people who have an experience associated with marriage. Even when they gave you a point-by-point reasoning you continued to argue.

If im incorrect, please correct me. If im being harsh, someone back hand me. :D

[DavoX]

If you really really want to have your hobbies when you get married, make sure you have a lot in common with your wife then. But please not MMO or you'll end up addicted and not feeding your baby (it really happened).

[Commando Nukem]

If you really really want to have your hobbies when you get married, make sure you have a lot in common with your wife then. But please not MMO or you'll end up addicted and not feeding your baby (it really happened).

Ah yes... But thats just plain irresponsibillity there, not really something to do with marriage, it could have happend if they were in a long term relationship, or roomies. In either case that was just a disgusting...disgrace.

[DavoX]

I never said it had something to do with marriage, just a side note as to why you shouldn't play that :p

[Commando Nukem]

I never said it had something to do with marriage, just a side note as to why you shouldn't play that :p

Nah, I just said that for clarification. :)

[Opus131]

If you really really want to have your hobbies when you get married, make sure you have a lot in common with your wife then.

This is so amusing on so many levels. You are not allowed to keep your hobbies after marriage but she does?

[DavoX]

I think too many literature melted your brain, when did i say such a thing?

[ShakeItBaby]

If you really really want to have your hobbies when you get married, make sure you have a lot in common with your wife then. But please not MMO or you'll end up addicted and not feeding your baby (it really happened).

Heh my wife and I were stuck on WoW all last year. She was more addicted than me! No baby to neglect though, fortunately.

P.S. I was tormenting her today with details of the new level 80 expansion. But we're not going back. It was too life consuming.

[Phait]

Alright, then i'll be the impolite one here... You're fast to assume you understand when you do not, this is usually referred to as arrogance, but it could just be impassioned ignorance... and you won't admit that in a general sense you are incorrect on some occasions until its absolutely blatant. Im not trying to be insulting here, but to me this seems to be the case. You continued to argue with a good deal of people who have an experience associated with marriage. Even when they gave you a point-by-point reasoning you continued to argue.


Thanks for attempting to help me understand. I'm digesting it.

[Opus131]

I think too many literature melted your brain, when did i say such a thing?

The reason why marriage leads to a loss of 'independent entitlement', as the OP puts it, is because your life no longer revolves around yourself, the bigger priority now being the family (which is bullshit anyway. A family isn't the only possible fulfillment of a man's life, and to be frank i find the level of child worship inherent in contemporary society to be outright disgusting and pathetic). In theory, this should go both ways meaning that even assuming your wife shares the same hobbies as yourself, they still ought to be scarified for the good of the household, right?

Unless of course she gets to keep hers either way, meaning that only way to enjoy your own things is to pick a parter that shares the same interests as you.

[Commando Nukem]

Thanks for attempting to help me understand. I'm digesting it.

Don't get me wrong man, I think we all have an experience or two like that in our day. I just think you might be out of your league on this particular discussion.

Have you ever had a long term relationship? Even when you get into later months, you can start to see where a relationship needs improvement, and for me it was ALWAYS in someway related to bad communication. Either me saying too much, or them not saying or enough.

The relationships in my case usually ended with me saying something in a wounded dog tone like "But... You never told me that! How was I supposed to know?" and i'd get a stern look as a reply, usually indicating they expected me to read their minds... and before that, I was always asking them if they were "okay" or if they wanted something or anything and they'd give me the same. damn. answer. Everytime. "Im fine" or sometimes I get lucky and they'd say "Im fine, Steve." with a small smile... Lack of communication from either member can murder a relationship in cold blood.

However, then comes the opposite effect, where you're asking too many questions and it goes from being "care" to what appears to be "interrogation". Its never good to alienate your significant other by asking them too many questions too many times, or accusing them of not being honest... Though even to this day I still think they all lied when they said "Im fine". Because later i'd see on their blog a post about how depressed they were. So i'd 'confront' them about that and they'd say "why are you getting into my business." My mind it seemed totally logical to check out their blog, their INTERNET blog, which is freely viewed by dozens of people all the time. Alas, it was not the right choice apparently, and things fell apart.

Relationships are always about sacrifice on some level. "Independent entitlement" really has nothing to do with a relationship. Being who YOU are really has no barring on the rules of a relationship that work. You have to be giving, you have to share, you have to be thoughtful, and ready to sacrifice for your partner... and they for you. If you get into a relationship where giving is all you do, then you need to be honest with the person, try to work it out... If it doesn't improve, leave.

[Joe Siegler]

Sigh.

[thefly]

Sigh.

Yeah, this is thread is multiplying the :doh::doh::doh: at an alarming rate.

I find the level of [any subject in] society to be outright disgusting and pathetic

Well, you seem to find everything in life "disgusting and pathetic" unless it involves dead composers. You are boring.


Phait seems to lack any experience of thinking outside one's self. 25 and going nowhere isn't really a unique American experience, but it is still a bit strange to see.

[Mister_Anderson]

Well, you seem to find everything in life "disgusting and pathetic" unless it involves dead composers. You are boring.


With any luck that will prevent him from breeding.

I reckon this thread has run its course - I don't see anything particularly new or useful being added to prolong its existence in the near future.

[Joe Siegler]

With any luck that will prevent him from breeding.

I reckon this thread has run its course - I don't see anything particularly new or useful being added to prolong its existence in the near future.

Agreed.