The Bioshock Thread Part 3

[Joe Siegler]

http://forums.3drealms.com/vb/showthread.php?t=28077

Noticed Part 2 had gotten quite large, so here's Part 3.

[Pontiaction]

For those of you enjoying the full game, I was curious about something -- in any of the voice logs that you've encountered, do they ever employ any classic reel-to-reel distortion on the voices? Like the warbling sound you'd get from a a tape deck that's unable to maintain tension on the spools? I love that creepy effect it gives to voices, like in the movie Session 9. I saw the voice logs were basically retro-futuristic cassette players, and being a sound nerd, this opportunity immediately occurred to me.

Hey, while I wait for my 360 to get fixed, I gotta ask something whose answer wouldn't be a spoiler. :D

[Nacho]

Yes. But not to the extent that Session 9 had.

[8IronBob]

Yeah, I'll play the X360 demo in the meantime, I've got loads of work to build my rig, since I was a little late in planning, it could be at least the end of the year before I start up and playing that game. This laptop probably couldn't handle Bioshock, even if I tried.

[Pontiaction]

Yes. But not to the extent that Session 9 had.
Thank you, you have made me happy. :D

Session 9 was a bit much anyway -- just a touch would be an excellent mood-enhancer. Uhm, in the non-narcotic sort of way.

[Scream]

Not to stir up disharmony toward this game (it's already got enough), but does anyone else get the feeling that this was rushed to market on the PC side? When you look at the issue getting the demo out in a timely manner, and now all the issues so many PC users seem to be having, it really makes me wonder.

Let's say on the 360 side they see Halo 3 coming late in September, GTA4 coming in October (or so they thought when they announced the Bioshock release date), Call of Duty 4 (now in November), and the Half-Life Orange Box thrown in there. That's a lot of big games to compete with. So, they want to get the game out in the relatively dry month of August before the avalanche starts. They also want simultaneous 360/PC releases. And, we know that the PC team had been behind by a few weeks through most of the development. I'm betting the PC development team would have liked another month to tune this baby.

Release, and patch...

I love this game so far by the way. I just think it's too bad that the release of such a brilliant title has been marred by so many issues. I think if I were looking for this on the PC, I'd be waiting another few weeks for the first patch to come out, as this game seems to have more than it's fair share of issues on that platform.

[Dave-ros]

I hope they can quickly and efficiently implement patching in the Steam version, which I would probably rather get -- bear in mind I got Stubbs the Zombie through Steam, and they still haven't "figured out" how to patch it, even though the non-Steam version has a patch out!

[Scream]

I hope they can quickly and efficiently implement patching in the Steam version, which I would probably rather get -- bear in mind I got Stubbs the Zombie through Steam, and they still haven't "figured out" how to patch it, even though the non-Steam version has a patch out!

They have different patches depending on the distribution method?

Wow, I really can't believe people put up with this crap.

[FrozeN91]

Are there any bugs or glitches in-game? I've been hearing about the activation and widescreen stuff and all that. But what about the actual game? Any real bugs that really bring down the game or are there just small/no bugs?

[Scream]

Are there any bugs or glitches in-game? I've been hearing about the activation and widescreen stuff and all that. But what about the actual game? Any real bugs that really bring down the game or are there just small/no bugs?


Well, if you read through the Bioshock thread here there seem to be various issues. Crashes to desktop etc. Possible that some of the people are trying to run it on machines below spec, dunno. There are plenty that are having no issues as well.

This stuff is not what you want to see on gaming sites the week your big title launches: http://www.gamespot.com/news/6177330.html?action=convert&om_clk=latestnews&tag=latestnews;title;0

[Jiminator]

Sound hitched on me once, other than that there are problems with the mouse, it is either too sensitive or jerky/not sensitive. if they are using common code with a controller then there you go....

[Addicted Gamer]

as always: DRM is devil.

2k forums are getting spammed pretty nicely by consumers about this. kotaku, gamespot (and gamespot au), pc gamer, digg etc are already bashing about this online activation method.

let's hope publisher will do something, i won't buy my copy if only 2 times limitation.

[Danule]

Are there any bugs or glitches in-game? I've been hearing about the activation and widescreen stuff and all that. But what about the actual game? Any real bugs that really bring down the game or are there just small/no bugs?

there are some wonky physics things that happen when i play, hopefully there will be a patch for that.

[Pontiaction]

Well, if you read through the Bioshock thread here there seem to be various issues. Crashes to desktop etc. Possible that some of the people are trying to run it on machines below spec, dunno. There are plenty that are having no issues as well.I have been seeing a good number of issues being reported as well (not related to activation or licensing). Mostly crashes to desktop, total system lock-up or graphics corruption. Of course, every game seems to have that to some degree when it first comes out. Which is something I got used to as a PC gamer, but nowadays -- since I have moved to console gaming to escape this very sort of thing -- I look back and wonder how I put up with it.

Everyone who buys the game pays (roughly) the same money, yet some are not able to enjoy the experience at all because it just plain doesn't work. Sometimes a patch fixes it, sometimes not. Back when you could easily return games to the store, this wasn't so bad. But with new return policies, and indeed, 2K's new SecuROM activation scheme and volatile license keys that all but destroy the ability to do a "user to user" software sale, there's not much recourse. You really do need to play the demo before a PC game ships, not for fun, but for compatibility testing.

It's the nature of the piecemeal construction of the PC gaming platform; everyone in the audience has a different combination of hardware and software that must make developing these games a compatibility nightmare to some degree.

As to the possibility of a "rushed release" to beat the 360's upcoming launch of Halo 3, I suppose it's possible. The original Doom overshadowed System Shock's launch, and Half-Life overshadowed System Shock 2. There are no doubt some bad memories there at Irrational 2K Boston...

[Destructor]

Is Bioshock just a Deus Ex / System Shock clone? Because if it is, I'm not getting it.

[M-Jay]

direct x 9 vs. direct x10 in bioshock (pics):

http://www.pcgameshardware.de/?menu=browser&article_id=610800&image_id=687050

[Delta]

I'd say it's a little more action-oriented than Deus Ex or System Shock, but I'm not much of an expert on either game.

It's a good mix of run-and-gun, story, plot, and atmosphere.

[Pontiaction]

Bioshock is a lot less RPG-ish than either of those two, particularly System Shock. As I understand it, there are no minimum level prerequisites, ravenous stat-building, having to decide between Tech and Psi, etc.

But it's not as action-driven as, say, Gears of War or a Quake title.

[Blue Lightning]

Bioshock is a lot less RPG-ish than either of those two, particularly System Shock. As I understand it, there are no minimum level prerequisites, ravenous stat-building, having to decide between Tech and Psi, etc.

But it's not as action-driven as, say, Gears of War or a Quake title.

Or Half Life 2. Honestly, as good as BioShock is, I would say that it was overhyped...no way it garners a 100 score. It got so many 100's, did Irrational pay off the reviewers? I mean it's good yeah, but it has some issues, and it's no 100.

One problem is it has the same afliction that D00M III had...a case of "maze-itis". So many maze like maps, yet still linear, because there is only one way you can go to advance, or one route. So you find yourself going down dead-ends or backtracking because of "quests" (I hate quests in an FPS). That is one problem with it right there. I won't give a final score on it until I finish it, and it will get a good score from me...but nowhere near perfect.

[Jiminator]

at least you get a map. and the drmshock thing is only now starting to get reported on bigtime, pcgamer for one. I don't think many of the reviewers are taking that into consideration at all, or maybe they will revise if they try playing it at home.... :)

[Destructor]

Bioshock is a lot less RPG-ish than either of those two, particularly System Shock. As I understand it, there are no minimum level prerequisites, ravenous stat-building, having to decide between Tech and Psi, etc.

But it's not as action-driven as, say, Gears of War or a Quake title.

Damn, that seems different than Deus Ex and System Shock in a bad way. :(

As in, mediocrity. Pandering to graphics whores and mindless trigger happy idiots, like me. :p

[Delta]

Damn, that seems different than Deus Ex and System Shock in a bad way. :(

As in, mediocrity. Pandering to graphics whores and mindless trigger happy idiots, like me. :p
BioShock is anything but mediocre.

BioShock has a little more complexity than just running and gunning. You'd have to play it to understand.

So play the demo version (360 or PC). That's what it's there for, to evaluate what kind of game it is.

[slapnutz]

This maybe a silly question.. but can you run BS in Dx9 mode under Vista?

[Destructor]

BioShock is anything but mediocre.

BioShock has a little more complexity than just running and gunning. You'd have to play it to understand.

A little more complexity than just running and gunning is mediocre. A lot more is either 'I say, Sir, this game puts my abnormally high IQ to good use' or 'Argh, brain freeze!'.


So play the demo version (360 or PC). That's what it's there for, to evaluate what kind of game it is.

Well, so far, I don't need to. It's quite clear that Bioshock is a compromise between the System Shock / Deus Ex fans and the Id Software fanboys. If that's a good thing for me or not, I'm not sure yet. I think I'd rather stick with playing my copy of Doom III rather than going off into half-ass land. :o Pity I can't get my copy of Deus Ex to work anymore. :(

[M-Jay]

This maybe a silly question.. but can you run BS in Dx9 mode under Vista?

what i have heard: right click on the exe or shortcut and click on run in dx9.

[TBZ]

Widescreen gaming? Pfft, screw that! Tallscreen gaming is the future!
http://www.widescreengamingforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11712



:D

[ShadeEX]

Widescreen gaming? Pfft, screw that! Tallscreen gaming is the future!
http://www.widescreengamingforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11712



:D

Bwahaha LMAO

Now that is Funny :D :dopefish:

[John]

Is Bioshock just a Deus Ex / System Shock clone? Because if it is, I'm not getting it.

Even though its technically not at all (theres no real RPG to it), why not? Not a fan of the RPG/FPS genre? It's really not like Deus Ex or SS2 at all except for subtle references, etc. however its certainly way better than Doom 3.

[Duke Rocks]

direct x 9 vs. direct x10 in bioshock (pics):

http://www.pcgameshardware.de/?menu=browser&article_id=610800&image_id=687050

Wow, the smoke is a bit more subtle and and slightly less dense. I think I'm gonna have to upgrade to Vista now.:p

[Pontiaction]

Well, so far, I don't need to. It's quite clear that Bioshock is a compromise between the System Shock / Deus Ex fans and the Id Software fanboys.You might actually be right on this, although whether this results in a mediocre gaming experience is up for debate. I can't delve too far into a debate such as that, since I am only acquainted with the Bioshock demo as of right now. But I will freely admit to loving all of the above: Deus Ex, System Shock 1 and 2, Doom 3, and Half-Life 2. Sometimes I'm in the mood for more "run and gun" or "scary surprise" than "thinking man's shooter" or "RPG with shooter elements." I like both. Maybe not at the same time, but I find something to like in nearly everything.

Since my 360 is presently sucking dirt, and I have the limited edition of Bioshock sitting here with the "Making of" DVD, I started to watch said disc out of sheer anticipation. In it, the Irrational crew were actually talking about how, early in the development cycle, the game did have all of those RPG elements like prerequisite levels, skills that had to be mastered before you could use weapons, etc. (just like the System Shock titles). They said they took those elements out because it kept all the really fun stuff out of players' hands until well into the game, and they wanted to bring the "FPS heart" of the game to the surface.

Good thing? Bad thing? Depends on your perspective. Personally, I would have liked a little more System Shock 2-esque RPG/FPS hybrid. Getting those skills built up in SS2 is greatly rewarding when it nets you the ability to modify a weapon or hack a computer that you couldn't before. But I still think Bioshock is loads of fun -- from what I can see of the demo, anyway.

[slapnutz]

Widescreen gaming? Pfft, screw that! Tallscreen gaming is the future!
http://www.widescreengamingforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11712
:D

Now thats some funny shit.:)

[M-Jay]

Wow, the smoke is a bit more subtle and and slightly less dense. I think I'm gonna have to upgrade to Vista now.:p

you forgot about the water. :D
http://www.pcgameshardware.de/?menu=browser&mode=article&article_id=610800&entity_id=-1&image_id=687051&page=1

yes, this is ridiculous...

[Llama Gibbz]

I got a strange graphical bug.
Seems some textures dont show up after i load a saved game.

After a few seconds they show up.
You can actually see the texture being drawn. :D
XP sp.2 with 7800 gs and recommended beta drivers.

http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/561/80029751tc7.th.png (http://img248.imageshack.us/my.php?image=80029751tc7.png)

[superevilcube]

That happens to me. I think its the UE3 engine. That would happen in Gears of War a whole lot.

[alexgk]

That happens to me. I think its the UE3 engine. That would happen in Gears of War a whole lot.
Right you are.

[Destructor]

Good thing? Bad thing? Depends on your perspective. Personally, I would have liked a little more System Shock 2-esque RPG/FPS hybrid. Getting those skills built up in SS2 is greatly rewarding when it nets you the ability to modify a weapon or hack a computer that you couldn't before. But I still think Bioshock is loads of fun -- from what I can see of the demo, anyway.

Well, yeah, I may still find it quite a fun game. Actually, I don't think I enjoyed Deus Ex that much. Haven't played any of the System Shock games yet unfortuantely. I'm slightly turned off by the skills thing and choosing what I want JC to specialize in. Usually, I just say 'yeah whatever' and just choose randomly because I just want to get on with the game. I also didn't really get into the story. But I liked the atmosphere of the thing, the locations were interesting and it's fun sneaking around a bit. It's got a good amount of depth to it which I like aswell, even though I didn't bother looking into every nuance. Although if I play it again I might get into it more.

It would be nice if they stuck with making Bioshock more RPG like. They could have made it better than Deus Ex, like making the skill choosing more interesting or less concrete. Like say, at the end of a mission, you can transfer skill points to other areas you want to focus on instead of leaving them on the same thing. That would making choosing less daunting. But instead, they have taken it away completely; so really, it's just another glorified Half-Life. Great atmosphere, but no real depth to gameplay.

When I sink my teeth into something, I like to sink in as much as I can. And if, while I'm playing Bioshock, I'm thinking System Shock would have a greater sense of depth and consequently be more fun, it won't be worth playing further IMHO. I may as well keep my hundred dollar note and look harder at getting System Shock for my new, refreshing, gameplay experience; rather than just clutching desperately at what's hot on the shelves at the moment.

[Pontiaction]

Regardless of whether you decide to spring for Bioshock, I recommend taking a look at System Shock 2. (System Shock 1 sets up the story, but it is very old and very kludgy, so you kinda have to be committed to dealing with vintage 1994 look and feel.)

SS2 is quite easy to locate these days, but harder to get running on a WinXP + SP2 box. At least, I had a lot of trouble that I wasn't willing to sort out after poking at it for a couple of hours -- I just threw it on my old Win98/DOS rig instead. Lots of folks have done it, though, so if you persist, you will be rewarded.

[CD Racing ZX6R]

direct x 9 vs. direct x10 in bioshock (pics):

http://www.pcgameshardware.de/?menu=browser&article_id=610800&image_id=687050

Am I the only that doesnt see much or any difference worth mentioning.

I built my rig for Crysis. Even going to buy vista, and I hate vista for Crysis. I hope the DX10 hype for that game lives up to the features.

[Yatta]

Am I the only that doesnt see much or any difference worth mentioning.

I built my rig for Crysis. Even going to buy vista, and I hate vista for Crysis. I hope the DX10 hype for that game lives up to the features.
Well the water and the shadows certainly look A LOT nicer.

[Aegeri]

Well, installing went well (thankfully) and the game manages to run, but the performance of the full on my PC is abysmal compared to the demo.

In any event though, the game is absolutely brilliant and is still the best FPS I've played since HL and the best game I've played in a while now. It really does everything right, with the exception of the overly simplistic hacking and the stupid death system. Otherwise I'm very impressed with the game.

Just a shame 2k are such morons.

[Jiminator]

well, after getting bitch slapped around they have modified their policies:

http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/48621

Simultaneous Installgate 07: 2K Ups BioShock Install Limit, Plans FOV Adjustment Patch
by Chris Remo Aug 23, 2007 8:24pm CST
With a swathe of announcements sure to send shockwaves reverberating throughout the BioShock internet community, publisher 2K Games has replaced BioShock's initial limit of two simultaneous PC installations with what community manager Elizabeth Tobey calls a "5 by 5 plan."

Under the new terms, users will be able to install the game on up to five computers, with the ability to reinstall the game on each computer up to five times. 2K will release a "revoke app" that should address issues resulting from the original limitations.

In a stunning reversal, 2K also announced plans to release a patch allowing PC users to adjust the game's FOV despite claiming the existing widescreen implementation was by design, as documented in our coverage of Aspect Ratiogate 07. An Xbox 360 patch is under consideration as well.

Prior to today's announcement, resourceful gamer Racer_S took matters into his own hands, applying a digital brand of widescreen vigilante justice and creating an unofficial patch. Tobey tipped her hat to the fan's efforts.

Along with the patch and policy changes, 2K is strengthening its tech support team, and has posted a technical FAQ addressing numerous concerns regarding SecuROM DRM and other issues. The company pledged a more streamlined experience with 2K and SecuROM tech support.

Finally, 2K has fixed its momentarily inactive activation server, allowing those previously unable to finish their game installs to do so.

2K appears to be proactively plugging holes, but Shacknews remains vigilant as Bioshockgate 07 continues to unfold. Stay tuned.

[Steve]

^That's cool.

[Aegeri]

I just resinstalled my laptop video card drivers and funnily enough, awesome performance again. Going to look forward to playing the game again now, so I can see the first few levels with, you know, non-crap detail.

[Steve]

I just resinstalled my laptop video card drivers and funnily enough, awesome performance again. Going to look forward to playing the game again now, so I can see the first few levels with, you know, non-crap detail.

My new computer is taking too damn long! I have bioshock sitting on my desk at this very moment :dopefish:

[Aegeri]

My new computer is taking too damn long! I have bioshock sitting on my desk at this very moment :dopefish:

Yeah, the game isn't as appealing on low detail as opposed to high. I can't have the resolution as high as I would like, but it still looks really good.

[thefly]

the stupid death system.

Haven't played the game, but have read about the "death system." Sounds like a middle ground between quicksave/quickload and check/autosave points. No one likes to restart at the first of a level after dying.

[Nihilanth]

I've got only a question about this FAQ (http://www.2kgames.com/cultofrapture/pc_faq.html) because I don't seem to understand what it really means (language issues). So guys tell me does this "revoke application" mean:

How many times can I reinstall this game on the same computer?
2K increased the maximum installs on the same computer from 3 to 5, before you need to seek customer support. The revoke application we will release will make this irrelevant - as long as you revoke before you install again, you will have no issues.
I will be able to reinstall BioShock as many times as I will?

If I put a new piece of hardware, such as a new video card, ram, hard drive, or a new motherboard, into my computer, will I have to reactivate my game? Will this count as one of my “allowed” computers?
No. You won't have to reactivate unless you change several pieces of hardware and this will count as one of your 5 allowed computers, if reactivation is required. The revoke application we will release will make this irrelevant - as long as you revoke before you uninstall and install again, you will have no issues.
I won't have to buy new copy to play the game if I change my rig?

-------------------

Because it's simple. If I can't reinstall the game as many times as I wish and if it's bound to my current rig then feel free to contact me and share any possible patch/crack that will remove this shit.

[Aegeri]

Haven't played the game, but have read about the "death system." Sounds like a middle ground between quicksave/quickload and check/autosave points. No one likes to restart at the first of a level after dying.

The problem is that it complete negates any challenge in the game. Hard just means it takes longer to do things, rather than actually being more challenging. I'm at a point now where I have full ammunition for everything and can kill most splicers with 1-2 swings of the wrench. Big daddies aren't even a challenge, because 8 proxies on an exploding barrel, decoy and freeze virtually instagibs them. I don't even need decoy either, because not actually dying in this process is irrelevant.

[thefly]

The problem is that it complete negates any challenge in the game.

Ok, well how does that differ from other quicksave type games? I'll admit I've got the disease where if a situation doesn't play out perfectly, I'll just quickload and do it again (say like a Fallout or Civ game...yes, turned based, but I hope you understand what I mean.)


Ok, I think my mind has come up with a good question to this: Does everything reset the way it was before you "died' in BioShock, or does the game use some variables when it "reloads your life."

I mean, I think most of us are use to Mario Bros. type deaths at this point.

[Jiminator]

enemies stay dead or keep their damage, so....

[CD Racing ZX6R]

Well the water and the shadows certainly look A LOT nicer.


I'm not seeing it.

Not that it doesnt look a little better.. But my PC cost me triple my 360. DX10 I would expect to look a lot better.

After re-watching the Crysis videos I'm certain its just irrational not really utilizing much DX10. Cause you can clearly see the difference in Crysis.

Either way though, the game looks amazing. Beat it twice, second time took care of a secret achievement I didn't know existed. Was an awesome area. For those that beat the game, I suggest reading spoiler based threads to see areas that you may have missed because of making different choices.

[Micki!]

I bought the game now...
And just like Marty said, the problem we wncounter is no different in the full version :(

To clarify to the countless amounts of people who overlooked our issue;
The game does not load, unless the game is running in Windowed mode...
No other option in the game seems to be fixing this issue at all...

It's horrible playing such an atmospheric game, and then letting the windowe mode destroy all the immersion it gives...

So, anyone heard, or figured how this issue can be fixed..?

[TBZ]

Oh yeah, baby! I recieved the mail a few moments ago, stating that my copy of Bioshock had arrived, and that I should go pick it up, IN 6 HOURS!

God Damnit! I have to wait until 5pm before I can pick up the game. Comfort me, I'm sad :(

[Dave-ros]

I was going to comment on the hilarious "tallscreen" thread at Widescreen Gaming, with its innovative new hat+, but interest in that seems to have died down here already. I hate being 6 hours ahead of the Americans :tinyted:

[Talos]

Wohooo - This will be the best weekend ever :D :cool:
My copy finally arrived!!
http://s1.picupload.net/t-c13522c4d367e4b6c1a1f5a52f7d56d2.jpg (http://s1.picupload.net/s-c13522c4d367e4b6c1a1f5a52f7d56d2-jpg.php)

[WestSeven]

Well I've prepaid via Steam and the game is finishing downloading now to be unlocked at (I think) 9:00pm tonight (Woooooot). I have a question based on the demo level for anyone who has played the game and knows about the security cameras and stuff. It's not really a spoiler but I've put it in spoiler tags anyway...

When the security alarm goes off what am I supposed to do? I see a timer and I start getting attacked by loads of flying robots! If I find somewhere quiet and lay-low for a while will that work? Should I just leg it? Can I disable the security system? The place I'm at is the bit down the stairs on the demo level - it's the first (and probably only) place on the demo you encounter a security camera just after picking up the machine gun. Help!

[Jiminator]

hide for 60 seconds. but better to avoid the beam. it has to lock on to you for the alarm, you can back out if you are fast. you can hack it by getting underneath, it is blind at that point.

[Monkey Butler]

Electrobolt the camera, run underneath it and then hack it and not only will you not get attacked, the bots will shoot at the splicers for you

[Scream]

The problem is that it complete negates any challenge in the game. Hard just means it takes longer to do things, rather than actually being more challenging. I'm at a point now where I have full ammunition for everything and can kill most splicers with 1-2 swings of the wrench. Big daddies aren't even a challenge, because 8 proxies on an exploding barrel, decoy and freeze virtually instagibs them. I don't even need decoy either, because not actually dying in this process is irrelevant.

I've only used it once. As a general rule, if I die, I go back to my last save and try again. You have that option, rather than using the Vita Chambers. Once again, Bioshock is all about player choice. ;)

I still think for an action game well-implemented checkpoint systems provide the most challenging experience, but I know a lot of people hate them and find them frustrating. I personally find it hard to resist save crawling when I have the option.

[Scream]

That happens to me. I think its the UE3 engine. That would happen in Gears of War a whole lot.

Yup, I see that at the beginning of Gears levels all the time. It takes 4-5 seconds for all the detail on the player model to be rendered, and then it's fine. It would be better if that didn't happen, but it's very far from a big deal.

[Sang]

I've only used it once. As a general rule, if I die, I go back to my last save and try again. You have that option, rather than using the Vita Chambers.

Well, I didn't use the alternative to Quickloading in System Shock 2 or Prey so I guess when I finally play the game that shouldn't be a problem.

There is one thing that I've read in reviews that kinda bothers me though - It seems the number of enemies is rather small (the Big Daddy, 4 types of Splicers and some boss enemies). The Splicers never change, in the later levels they are a lot tougher but there are no visual differences to make sure it makes sense (like having body armor or something).

So that's kindof a problem.. Also from Video Reviews I had the impression the weapons were really weak, and that you're basically forced into using Plasmids.

[FireFly]

I've only used it once. As a general rule, if I die, I go back to my last save and try again. You have that option, rather than using the Vita Chambers. Once again, Bioshock is all about player choice. ;).
Well, what I find annoying is you can't quickload until after you've respawned, if you die. And why do they force you to view a full screen quicksave prompt, rather than simoly displaying the word 'quicksaving...' in the corner of the screen, as has been the norm since Half-Life?

I still think for an action game well-implemented checkpoint systems provide the most challenging experience, but I know a lot of people hate them and find them frustrating. I personally find it hard to resist save crawling when I have the option
I think a checkpoint system is needed as a safety net on top of everything else, so players can be drawn into the game without being punished for failing to manage their saves.

[ShadeEX]

Buying my copy today..

[Blue Lightning]

It's damn annoying that you only get one speed...which is RUN.

Most games give you two speeds...run and walk. Sometimes I want to walk and enjoy the scenery.

Also, when you are walking (running) the weapon you have is bouncing up and down like your tip-toeing. What's that about? It could of been done better

[Steve]

Been reading up about mouse lag in the game - The game doesn't like Razor gaming mice. This true? I had odd problems with mouse movement in the demo.

[Lethe]

The problem is that it complete negates any challenge in the game. .

I agree.

[avatar_58]

well, after getting bitch slapped around they have modified their policies:


Wait that doesn't solve jack shit. It's still a limit and you still have to call SecuRom. This move should not be applauded at all.

[Scream]

Well, I didn't use the alternative to Quickloading in System Shock 2 or Prey so I guess when I finally play the game that shouldn't be a problem.

There is one thing that I've read in reviews that kinda bothers me though - It seems the number of enemies is rather small (the Big Daddy, 4 types of Splicers and some boss enemies). The Splicers never change, in the later levels they are a lot tougher but there are no visual differences to make sure it makes sense (like having body armor or something).

So that's kindof a problem.. Also from Video Reviews I had the impression the weapons were really weak, and that you're basically forced into using Plasmids.

I haven't played far enough to really see the progression of the same splicers, but I agree that's a little lame. Very Oblivion-esque. Your enemies are "levelling" at the same time you are I guess. Not bothering me so far, although I'm not fond of shoving a shotgun in someone's face who is roughly the same size as me and is wearing no armour and having them NOT die when I pull the trigger. That just ain't right.

In general though, as far as the weapons being weak goes, I don't see that as a problem, or a legitimate beef. In the story the weapons are pretty basic, and some of them are makeshift weapons developed by the citizens of Rapture, made out of egg cartons and elastic bands. MacGuyver weapons.

Also, the splicers would theoretically be using tonics just like you are to increase their resistance to these types of weapons. So, in such an unusual environment, YES, you do need your plasmids to survive. That's the whole idea of the game. Anyone trying to get through it using just your standard projectile weapons would not only have a very difficult time doing so, but would also be missing out on the entire point of the gameplay differences Bioshock offers. Skip Bioshock and go back and play Doom 3 or something if you don't like using plasmids. I think it's very well balanced, and the weapons and plasmids compliment each other really well.

Minor spoiler (no story details):

If it helps any, I just beat my third Big Daddy and didn't use any plasmids at all. I'm discovering that the environment you choose to fight them in does a lot to determine your success. You need to strategically choose a good spot to fight in, AND it depends on the type of Big Daddy you're fighting (the Rosies fight differently than the Bouncers) . The first one I killed was easy, the second was brutally hard and man-handled me over and over, and the third was quite easy again. Strategic use of choke points and vertical space can make a big difference. A grenade launcher doesn't hurt either. ;)

[Orochi Avlis]

It's damn annoying that you only get one speed...which is RUN.
You do get a tonic that softens your footsteps.

I will be able to reinstall BioShock as many times as I will?
I think the revoke option tells the server to make that specfic cd-key active again.

[Scream]

It's damn annoying that you only get one speed...which is RUN.

Most games give you two speeds...run and walk. Sometimes I want to walk and enjoy the scenery.

Also, when you are walking (running) the weapon you have is bouncing up and down like your tip-toeing. What's that about? It could of been done better

Hmm, I haven't felt like either of thsoe things were a problem. Guess it depends on how you play the game.

[Jiminator]

Wait that doesn't solve jack shit. It's still a limit and you still have to call SecuRom. This move should not be applauded at all.
the revoke app "should" allow you to resolve these problems without getting on the phone. hopefully they will do what they said. To be certain I am still annoyed about the whole phone home thing but this makes it more palatable.

[Sang]

Anyone trying to get through it using just your standard projectile weapons would not only have a very difficult time doing so, but would also be missing out on the entire point of the gameplay differences Bioshock offers. Skip Bioshock and go back and play Doom 3 or something if you don't like using plasmids.

I'm not saying I have anything against the plasmids - In fact I think I'll gladly use them, but the whole being forced into using them (basically) is contrary to the whole "player choice" ideal going on. Okay, the player might still have a choice.. but if playing it with standard weapons only is next to impossible as you say then.. wtf?

[Nexus_sa]

It's damn annoying that you only get one speed...which is RUN.

Most games give you two speeds...run and walk. Sometimes I want to walk and enjoy the scenery.

Also, when you are walking (running) the weapon you have is bouncing up and down like your tip-toeing. What's that about? It could of been done better


On the 360 you just don't push the left stick all the way forward and the character walks. Not sure if, if at all, the PC implements this.

[Blue Lightning]

Yeah there's a lot a player cannot choose. I am not seeing how this game is really a game of choices, except going after the big daddies.

[superevilcube]

I beat my first Big Daddy without dying today. Those explosive buck shots really get the job done :D

[Scream]

I'm not saying I have anything against the plasmids - In fact I think I'll gladly use them, but the whole being forced into using them (basically) is contrary to the whole "player choice" ideal going on. Okay, the player might still have a choice.. but if playing it with standard weapons only is next to impossible as you say then.. wtf?

Your argument doesn't make a lot of sense to me. It's like being upset that you only wanted to use the crowbar to complete Half-Life, but the developers designed the game so you were forced to use other weapons.

Rapture is a world where you're going to have to use a variety of things at your disposal to survive. Plasmids are just another weapon at your disposal. Like I said, if all you wanted were guns, guns and bigger guns, this is the wrong game for you.

I think if you'll try it this whole conversation will be moot, because the marriage of plasmids and conventional weapons in this game is done really well, and is really enjoyable. You'll both need and WANT to use both, 'cause it's fun. :D

[Blue Lightning]

On the 360 you just don't push the left stick all the way forward and the character walks. Not sure if, if at all, the PC implements this.

More proof that this game was really made for the 360.

Most FPS for PC let you walk, and to run/sprint, you push shift...or Alt. Like DN3D did in 1996.

Folks, I'm almost done with the game. Nowhere near 100, all of those reviewers lost credibility wiith me. GOod game yes, but with it's maze-like levels full of boring quests, and long story full of twists that I can care less about, I'm starting to lose my attraction to the game. Don't know if I can even finish it...

[Scream]

Yeah there's a lot a player cannot choose. I am not seeing how this game is really a game of choices, except going after the big daddies.

Well, so far I've chosen between several gene tonics, several plasmids, and several weapon upgrades. In different combat situations I have a lot of different choices. Do I destroy the security camera, or hack it to have it work for me? Same choice with the security bots. Do I turn the Big Daddy against my other enemies, or try and take everyone including the Big Daddy on by myself? Which plasmids you have equipped can greatly affect how tough or easy a fight is, as can which ammo you load your guns with. All these choices have an affect on how the gameplay goes.

Is it an open free roaming world like GTA? No, or course not, and it never claimed to be. It's a linear first person shooter (like all FPS), telling a specific story with a couple possible outcomes (depending on which choice you make in dealing with the Little Sisters). You don't have any choice in where you're going, but you DO have a lot more choice than any shooter I've played in how you get there.

[Iggy]

I installed the game then those Beta-drivers for my GeForce 8800GTS, then I did a reboot and now Bioshock refuses to start up. It says that the configuration isn't correct. I'm getting adviced to reinstall it.

Also, what is this "amd dual core timing fix" I found on the DVD of the game? Do I need to install this since I got a AMD AM2 5200+?

Besides that fact that installing untested drivers for a hardware component just to play a game is pretty retarded.

[WestSeven]

Hmmm - I watched the BioShock release counter count down to 5:00pm UK time and it now says it is released and I can play it. So I double click BioShock in Steam and it says I will be able to play it once it's released. Now this is VERY annoying.

Edit - 5:15. Still no dice. And now the Steam forums aren't working. Yep - looks like they screwed up again. Sigh.

Edit 2 - 5:25 and still nothing doing. The Steam forums are VERY busy with people complaining to the point where it's oftern returning 'Page cannot be displayed'. I really try to like Steam as their are so many good things about it but stuff like this is just annoying. Oh well - it's only a game, I'm going to do something else for a bit. If anyone in Europe has got the Steam version working I'd love to hear from you...

[Blue Lightning]

Is it an open free roaming world like GTA? No, or course not, and it never claimed to be. It's a linear first person shooter (like all FPS), telling a specific story with a couple possible outcomes (depending on which choice you make in dealing with the Little Sisters). You don't have any choice in where you're going, but you DO have a lot more choice than any shooter I've played in how you get there.

Yes linear, I like linear...but not mazes that are linear. In other words it is linear in the sense that there is only ONE WAY to get from one level to the other, but the "one way" is frought with mazes and many dead-ends. Too easy to get lost and too much to try and explore is taking some of the fun out of it. HL2, Dark Messiah....those were proper linear games.

DN3D was a semi-non linear game which I loved. Level design was top-notch. Still you had to get to point B to advance in Duke, but often there were a few different parrelel routes you could take to get from one part of the level to the other, or even from one map to the other (like level 1).

BioShocks linear maze design mimicks DooM 3's.

[avatar_58]

Besides that fact that installing untested drivers for a hardware component just to play a game is pretty retarded.

Actually most of the time "beta" simply means "Not WHQL certitified", and they are tested already.

[Nihilanth]

Yes linear, I like linear...but not mazes that are linear. In other words it is linear in the sense that there is only ONE WAY to get from one level to the other, but the "one way" is frought with mazes and many dead-ends. Too easy to get lost and too much to try and explore is taking some of the fun out of it. HL2, Dark Messiah....those were proper linear games.

DN3D was a semi-non linear game which I loved. Level design was top-notch. Still you had to get to point B to advance in Duke, but often there were a few different parrelel routes you could take to get from one part of the level to the other, or even from one map to the other (like level 1).

BioShocks linear maze design mimicks DooM 3's.

I can't believe it. First people bitch how every single game is painfully linear with no exploration value and when they finally get one, they bitch that it's too complicated and that previous was better...

Seriously man, I think you totally expected wrong kinds of things from this game.

[FireFly]

Yes linear, I like linear...but not mazes that are linear. In other words it is linear in the sense that there is only ONE WAY to get from one level to the other, but the "one way" is frought with mazes and many dead-ends. Too easy to get lost and too much to try and explore is taking some of the fun out of it. HL2, Dark Messiah....those were proper linear games.

How is it possible to get lost when the quest marker tells you exactly where to go, and the map tells you exactly where you are, currently? I can understand not being comfortable in the environments because you haven't got your bearings yet, but I've never had any problems knowing how to get to my objectives. The game pretty clearly spells it out for you.

Are you using the map frequently to work out how each level is structured?

[avatar_58]

Yes linear, I like linear...but not mazes that are linear. In other words it is linear in the sense that there is only ONE WAY to get from one level to the other, but the "one way" is frought with mazes and many dead-ends. Too easy to get lost and too much to try and explore is taking some of the fun out of it. HL2, Dark Messiah....those were proper linear games.


You know this post right here makes me lose faith in the way gamers have become. Are you telling me you don't want to be able to explore? Everything must be a straight path? :doh:

[Scream]

Yes linear, I like linear...but not mazes that are linear. In other words it is linear in the sense that there is only ONE WAY to get from one level to the other, but the "one way" is frought with mazes and many dead-ends. Too easy to get lost and too much to try and explore is taking some of the fun out of it. HL2, Dark Messiah....those were proper linear games.

DN3D was a semi-non linear game which I loved. Level design was top-notch. Still you had to get to point B to advance in Duke, but often there were a few different parrelel routes you could take to get from one part of the level to the other, or even from one map to the other (like level 1).

BioShocks linear maze design mimicks DooM 3's.

Honestly, I've never met a person with a worse sense of direction than myself (I bought a GPS for my car just to get me to new places in a city I've lived in all my life :)), and I've rarely felt lost in this game. And, on the few occasions I have felt lost there's a map I can bring up that shows me where I am, where I have and have not been, and where I need to go to complete my current quest. If that's not enough, there's even a friggin' arrow you can turn on to point the direction you need to be heading in to get to your goal (which I turned off as I didn't need it).

I really don't think this game is all that maze-like. There's a general direction you need to be heading in for your quest, and there are a few little offshoots to check out along the way. Not sure why you're having such a problem with it.

[8IronBob]

Well, I'm one who like sandbox-style gaming, where it's all non-linear (or tries to be), yet have the freedom to have that interaction that you can go and do anything, go anywhere, and wreak havoc wherever and whenever you feel like it, and break all hell loose on the town. Rockstar and Take Two were known for that. With the 2K brand, tho, they do things a little bit different from their Rockstar counterparts, and that may be somewhat good to a point. We'll have to see how far this game can go.

[WestSeven]

Anyone in Europe able to play yet?

[Iggy]

Anyone in Europe able to play yet?
I got it but it won't launch. Installed it twice and still getting the error that "the application configuration is incorrect".

[WestSeven]

I got it from Steam (see my previous post) and it says "unable to contact key server". Seems to be the same for everyone judging by the Steam forums. Oh well. Looks like I just got my Friday night back. Sigh...

[Oasiz]

Been reading up about mouse lag in the game - The game doesn't like Razor gaming mice. This true? I had odd problems with mouse movement in the demo.
I have a razer copperhead rat and I don't see any problems. I Just had to adjust sensitivity _very low_ .

[Aegeri]

I have a razer copperhead rat and I don't see any problems. I Just had to adjust sensitivity _very low_ .

This is the same with my G5. I had to adjust the dpi to around 600 for the movement to feel correct.

[Dave-ros]

Both my housemates now own this game on 360: one just bought an Elite with it included. However, the other housemate, who e-mailed me from work (I've been having the day off) to rave about how he'd bought it and he couldn't wait for 5pm, is... not impressed so far :o

[December Man]

:doh: If they're so many problems with it, I don't think I'm gonna buy it until they fix it and/or change the way the game has to be started :/

[ShadeEX]

Got my copy, Big Daddy intact..

Going to install it ASAP, yeah I got the PC version after all..

Because as I said in the recently bought thread: (me beeing lazy. I just quoted myself :p)

I know I said, that I would get the 360 version. But the 360 Collectors Edition has been delayed here in Denmark.. I wanted to play and get the Big Daddy badly. And I was impatient so I got the PC Collectors Edition instead.

I can always get the regular 360 version if performance is ass.
Normally I don't like owning two copys of the same game, but I think I can make an exception.

[JobivanHiob]

hey guys where lies the prob?! I'm playing it with no major problems and i'm currently in the garden level. :) and i :love: my big daddy figurine.

It's deffinitely a horror fps, normally i don't like horro much...but bioshock is a awsome exception. But DNF must top BS in the fun factor! Go 3DR

[Krust]

Finally got it today and loving every minute of it. Best shooter I played since HL 1 (and yes, that includes HL2). While it's still a linear game, it offers enough different possiblities (for a shooter) to make it fun. And maybe some people find the levels too big to fully explore, I don't. I even backtracked from the second to the first level, just because I didn't have a needed plasmid to get into an area.
The artwork is top notch, the sound & music are spot on, and the fights are a lot of fun. I say this game deserves the scores it's getting.

[Orochi Avlis]

I love the things some of the splicers say.
"BABY AND ME! BABY AND ME!" or when they sing how Jesus loves them.
Very creepy.

I've been also taking pictures like mad. I've maxed out the Spider and Houdini capture levels.

[jet jaguar 2.0]

BioShocks linear maze design mimicks DooM 3's.

This makes me sad. After following this game so closely and reading all the positive initial reviews I was really hyped about buying the pc version of this game but now it doesn't seem to be nearly as open-ended as I expected, the controls(you can run but not walk) appear to have been designed purely from a console consideration pov, and finally the DRM scheme 2K chose is the deal breaker.

If I ever get this game it'll be months down the road when it's selling for $20 and has been patched up.

I hope 3DR really hits a homerun with DNF because some of the hyped games that have come out have fallen far short of expectations.

[Nihilanth]

This makes me sad. After following this game so closely and reading all the positive initial reviews I was really hyped about buying the pc version of this game but now it doesn't seem to be nearly as open-ended as I expected, the controls(you can run but not walk) appear to have been designed purely from a console consideration pov (...)

I haven't played the game yet but I can assure you that what Blue Lightning said is not what it seems. Game IS open-ended. BioShock is not one-long-corridor type of thing like DOOM 3 or Half-Life 2 were. It's more like stalker or Far Cry, main objectives are linear but levels are open-ended and offer a lot of explorational space.

I don't understand why some people are so upset about not being able to walk. I mean take your precious HL2. You could walk... but how many people actually did that? I'm a gamer that likes to explore and admire every single pixel but I never felt need to walk in HL2. It was just: fine, you can do that. But it served no purpose gameplay wise, as for admiring environments, you can always just stop and stare, you don't have to walk.

On another note, I don't see why a surprising amount of people say something like "it's not non-linear, oh well". Tell me, how many games are actually non-linear? Maybe huge RPGs like The Elder Scrolls or Fallout series (haven't played so I can't tell). But ALL shooters and hybrid shooters ARE linear. Deus Ex, System Shock 2, stalker, Far Cry, all of them are completely linear when you think about "what I need to do to complete the game" BUT they offer enough explorational value so they're not corridor shooters. I don't get why some people expected BioShock to be actually non-linear.

[ShadeEX]

Game Soundtrack released as FREE download

EDIT:
Bah truble posting again..

Linky http://www.2kgames.com/cultofrapture/articles.html

[Pontiaction]

Game Soundtrack released as FREE downloadOh heck yes. This is what I was expecting to get when I bought the limited edition, and was annoyed that the included "soundtrack" was a Moby EP. The actual score I will be getting! :D

[Sang]

I mean take your precious HL2. You could walk...

Wait.. you could walk in HL2? And I find out about this after I completed it 5 times?

[Phait]

Irrational is really leading the way as a developer with all this customer generosity and quick support. So far they've:

- releaesd free score
- released free .PDF of the art book
- giving free printed art book to anyone who ship's in a broken Big Daddy figure from Collectors Edition
- addressing copy protection and widescreen issues quickly

More devs should follow suit.

[Blue Lightning]

And we PC gamers apperciate the port that irrational provided us so we could play the game.

[avatar_58]

http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/48641

Thats more like it.

[CommanderZx2]

Now that I finally have the full retail game, damn late release dates in UK, I can see why this game gets such high scores... it's awesome. I hope it sells very well despite the drm and widescreen issues.

[Quakis]

http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/48641

Thats more like it.

That shot included on that page, so there's different variation looks of the "Big Daddy" then? Wait.. is that a "Big Daddy?" Without spoiling anything, what are these "Little Sisters?" - I don't see myself getting to play the game in a long while so... :doh: I'm just interested to question... =x

[Marty]

Game Soundtrack released as FREE download

EDIT:
Bah truble posting again..

Linky http://www.2kgames.com/cultofrapture/articles.html

awesome, thankyou

[TBZ]

The soundtrack is greatness :D!

I haven't played very much, if I play when it's bright outside, I can't see anything :p. Oh well, I'm not in a hurry, I've only reached Neptune, but I haven't played that area yet, I'll do that tomorrow :)

[Spooger]

I finished it earlier today. Without a question, it's the best game I've played in years. In fact, I found it so enjoyable - so utterly engaging - that I've started again with the intent to do all that I didn't do the first time around (which was a lot, since I played on 'hard' mode, and, well, it was pretty dang hard, so I didn't stop to smell the roses).

I think BioShock has made the "FPS/RPG" type of game accessible. I don't hold with games like System Shock 2 - despite the love - because ultimately (and BioShock's developers agree with this in the making of dvd) they're just too complex. There's so much micromanagement, that you're in a grind to have fun. BioShock is 100% different; you get up-front depth without all the numbers.

Also, the environmental interactivity is something to take note of, especially as Duke fans. Its all done very well here -- you can pretty much expect everything in the world to react as it should, and your weapons are a huge part of the fundamental interaction. I hope 3DR takes notice, as BioShock - in my opinion - has taken it to a new level.

I had a few problems with the game, but nothing could keep me away from it. The enemy respawns are a tad high (again, I was playing on hard, so this might not be an issue for some if it's regulated), and the end was short, but I loved this game. I hope 2K Boston is recognized properly for their achievements.

[The Dukenator]

It won't run on my PC. :tinyted:

[Phait]

The Bioshock score is pretty neat, it's different - but then, so is Bioshock.

I don't think I could casually listen to this score as I do other game scores (Hitman series, Thief 3, Quake.) but it's admirable.

[Kernel Panic]

For ****s sake already, the fact that you can spend 12 hours just exploring the levels in this game is negative? Personally i think that after this game, most games like HL2 are going to seem even more on the "tracks" and thats going to bore me.

[Scream]

And we PC gamers apperciate the port that irrational provided us so we could play the game.

Seriously dude, you need to figure out where you stand on this game, because a few pages back you were all jazzed about how great a game it was, and now you think it's so bad that you might not even finish it.

And you're convinced that it's a port because why? You can't WALK? Is that the issue? In every PC game I ever played where there was a toggle between walk and run I always turned it on run and left it there, and I surely haven't been pushing my gamepad joystick "just a bit" to walk in the 360 version of this game. Half the time I'm ducking when I don't want to while in combat because they always map that function to pressing down on one of the joysticks, and I'm not delicate enough to keep from accidentally pressing it. If I can't avoid doing that with my wonderful analog joystick, I sure as hell ain't doing any walking. WTF do you need to walk for anyway? This isn't Splinter Cell. There's no need to sneak. They won't let you fall off of ledges (I've tried - invisible walls keep you from doing so), and I definitely never want to be caught walking when a Big Daddy is about to stick it's drill up my ass, so who cares about walking? Why is that such a big deal? Because some other game included it and .0001% of the people who played the game actually used it?

I tend to think the PC version of this game might have been rushed, but the more you look at the issues that it's having, they don't look like issues due to consolization. The two biggies (aside from the crucial issue of "no walking" of course) are widescreen support and product activation, neither of which have anything to do with consoles. Beyond that, there are a variety of bugs, some minor and some show stoppers for certain people's rigs. Bugs speak to the game being rushed, not ported.

Anyway, you are flip flopping all over the place. One minute it's great, the next it sucks. You complain it's a maze, and several people reply asking how you could get lost in something that gives you so many tools not to get lost. You complain that there's no choice, ignoring the 3 distinct types of ammo for each gun, ton of upgrades for those guns, 50+ tonics that modify your abilities, 10+ plasmid abilities, what to do with the Little Sisters etc. This is a FPS, NOT Oblivion. I've never seen a shooter come even close to this with player customization. This game is so NOT like DOOM III I can't believe that anyone would even compare the two games, in any way.

In my opinion your posts really give people the wrong impression about what this game is about. I don't know if you're worried that some game is going to be recognized as being better than Half-Life 2, or what the issue is. It's like you're going to read a forum somewhere with a lot of people bitching about the game, and their opinion is becoming your opinion.

If you don't like the game, that's fine. I have zero problem with that, as there is no game ever made that everyone likes (I didn't like the original Half-Life, and most people look at it as the pinnacle of FPS achievement). State that you don't like it, maybe with some reasons why, but just please be consistent, and if you're going to say something like "it's a port from the 360", then back that up with SOMETHING.

[Blue Lightning]

Anyway, you are flip flopping all over the place.

Be consistant? Dont flip flop?

I cant be "jazzed about a game" as you say, them as I play it an uncover flaws, I can't have a change of heart? So I must always stick with my original opinion no matter what the disaster? Like George Bush does? Must I not flip flop, even when a flip flop is warrented?? And as far as the 360 post goes, what I mean is the game may have been built for both, bot it was bottlenecked...some PC elements were sacrificed so it would be console freindly. Come on, we all can see that by now. Surley you can too...or mabey not.


I found another flaw and this really drops thegame in points for me:

Hit a guy 25 times with a wrench and shock him 3 times...no death (later levels). And this on only medium! Blst a guy TWO TIMES with 00 buck right in the face, point blank...no death. That's sad. I don't care if the AI is king Kong, a blast of 00 ott buck in the face will drop him.

Sure we want a challenge...but not an immpossibility. There are limits Ken Levine, and the difficulty with some regualr AI is...stupid. What's worse, agaisnt these foes you run out of ammo a lot. Tonight aginst an AI, No ammo, and the AI that can take 3 Buckshots in the face, three electrify, and a proximity mine? That happened to me tonight! NO WAY BS

Why don't you just put them all in god mode Mr. Levine, then we can't kill them at all? Then it would be really fun :rolleyes:

Oh I'm not allowed to change my opinion I guess...

[Scream]

Ok, fine, so you have changed your mind while playing. Fair enough. What's the "port" comment about?

As far as the increasing difficulty goes, I can't really comment as I'm too early in the game. One thing I HAVE discovered though is that the type of ammo you choose makes a big difference. One armor piercing round from the pistol (normally considered to be the weakest gun in most FPS) does more damage to a Rosie than 10 direct buck shot blasts from a shotgun.

Is it possible there is another weapon, other type of ammo, or another plasmid or two you could be choosing that would be more effective? Once again, I don't know as I'm not that far in. Just guessing. Gerstmann from Gamespot complained of the same thing in his review.

[Boo Boo Juice]

I just finished the game. It was a pretty good experience. I really enjoyed myself. I am surely going to play it again. This run through I was saving all the little sisters. I think I am going to harvest the shit out of them the next play through.

I only have one gripe. I won't spoil any story elements so don't worry. I'll still blank it though.
the end is really anticlimactic

[Blue Lightning]

Ok, fine, so you have changed your mind while playing. Fair enough. What's the "port" comment about?

As far as the increasing difficulty goes, I can't really comment as I'm too early in the game. One thing I HAVE discovered though is that the type of ammo you choose makes a big difference. One armor piercing round from the pistol (normally considered to be the weakest gun in most FPS) does more damage to a Rosie than 10 direct buck shot blasts from a shotgun.

Is it possible there is another weapon, other type of ammo, or another plasmid or two you could be choosing that would be more effective? Once again, I don't know as I'm not that far in. Just guessing. Gerstmann from Gamespot complained of the same thing in his review.

That's another problem, when you run out of certain ammo, it does not automatically reload the other ammo for that weapon! In the heat of battle, you dont have time to press "B" to see if there is another batch of ammo...that's horrible on the part of irrational games an yet ANOTHER FLAW. SHAME :mad:


The port comment I have already said it is obvious that the game was made for boty 360 and PC but it was bottlenecked...some elements for PC were sacrificed in order for it to be 360 freindly. That's now pretty well known.

[Scream]

The port comment I have already said it is obvious that the game was made for boty 360 and PC but it was bottlenecked...some elements for PC were sacrificed in order for it to be 360 freindly. That's now pretty well known.

Apparently I'm out of that loop. Can you give a "for instance"?

[thefly]

Hey Blue Lightning. Hey Scream. How about taking this pissing match to private messages rather than in a thread?

[Steve]

http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/48641

Thats more like it.

Awesome :)

[qwerty]

is there dismemberment in bioshock ? :confused:

[qwerty]

what happened to this (http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/4112/9570003kc2.jpg) ?


Im 3 to 4 hours in the game and I havent seen a single severed limb or exploding head yet :mad:



did they tone down the game ? :doh:

[WestSeven]

So far huge, huge respect for ...

A really great game.
Fast support.
Releasing the soundtrack (fanstastic!)
A quick answer on the DRM issues (listening to the fans).
Game works accross platforms without feeling like a port for either.
Relatively few techincle problems (I know there are some, but a lot of games on day 1 are much, much worse)

Somewhat less respect for...

Including the worst DRM I've ever heard of in the first place.
Totally botched Steam release in Europe.

I'm not sure which of the above is down to Irrational, 2k or Steam but that's how I see it.

[WestSeven]

what happened to this (http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/4112/9570003kc2.jpg) ?


Im 3 to 4 hours in the game and I havent seen a single severed limb or exploding head yet :mad:



did they tone down the game ? :doh:

Haven't seen any severed limbs but I've popped quite a few heads. It's pretty common although the animation is fast. Are you sure you're not just missing it?

[qwerty]

which weapon did you use for it ?

[WestSeven]

which weapon did you use for it ?

The pistol will pop those heads just fine. :D

[qwerty]

I will try that again, thanks :)

[Nihilanth]

Wait.. you could walk in HL2? And I find out about this after I completed it 5 times?

See? Nobody cares about walking (unless it's default movement mode like in Thief).

[WestSeven]

Oooh - Steam seems to be updating it this morning. Anyone know what's changed?

[hanged_man]

i think the "blood splat" effect has been toned down ...is this true ?

[Dave-ros]

That sounds about right, the Steam release only being unlocked late on Saturday evening UK time -- same thing happened with Tomb Raider Anniversary. Personally I blame Valve, even if it isn't their fault :tinyted:

Going to at least look at upgrading my entire system today, just so I can play this -- it's reminding me of trying to play Thief 3 and Doom 3 on my first multi-GHz system: a pretty slideshow. And hey, even if I end up not liking the game, I'll be ready for Crysis :D

[Spooger]

I think the claims that Bioshock is somehow toned down to be more console friendly are unfounded. I'd turn towards the bonus "making of" dvd (in the collectors edition) for proof that Bioshock, in every way, was the game Irrational wanted to make for a long time, and that came with a drastic game design paradigm change.

The PC is great for games that are inherantly complex; it's simply easier to browse menus, navigate a world, and interact with said world via a mouse and controller (when the game calls for it). But here's a news flash: Bioshock is supposed to be simple in terms of interaction. The desire of the team was to make it easy to play; leaving character modifications in the realm of visible additions, and not number crunching taking place in the background. I think they managed that quite well -- for people who want complexity that borders on ridiculous, there's System Shock 2. For everyone else who simply wants a deep, engaging, yet manageable experience, there's Bioshock. In terms of accessability, Bioshock easily wins all wars.

Deus Ex 2, Oblivion...those games may have left a bad taste in PC gamers' mouths as they sacrificed what the core audience desired in terms of overall depth -- but Bioshock is very different. It's about appeal, its about design, its about AI, its about action, but it's not really about being overwhelming to the player. Bioshock is a streamlined take on a System Shock-esque experience, and I don't think that's a bad thing, or "dumbed down" at all. I think, instead, that its great fun, and very inspired.

[Dave-ros]

It's actually scary how many System Shock 2 elements are in this game, albeit some in a cool 1950s "steampunk" manner -- in the demo I even saw a

residual psycho-kinetic manifestation, or whatever ghosts were called in SS2 :p

[Addicted Gamer]

was this one already posted?

http://www.twitchguru.com/site/flash_videos/second_take_the_bioshock_drm_problem.html

[jimbob]

whooh, my bioshock Collectors Edition came in yesterday, and the figure seems to be completely intact. :D i didnt expect it to come so soon so i`m very happy :D

\o/

/installs

[Sang]

That shot included on that page, so there's different variation looks of the "Big Daddy" then? Wait.. is that a "Big Daddy?" Without spoiling anything, what are these "Little Sisters?" - I don't see myself getting to play the game in a long while so... I'm just interested to question... =x

I suggest you read some early previews (from E3 2005-6 or something), most of them mention the relationship between Little Sisters and Big Daddies, and what they both are. Of course I guess you're one of the folks that doesn't want to get spoiled even though previews only reveal major plotlines which you would find out about 2 minutes after starting the game anyway.. So I'll just write it down:

The Little Sisters can pull something called "ADAM" out of dead bodies, and you will need this ADAM to survive. I'm not sure what you can do with it, I'd have to play the game for that, but I guess it's some kind of currency for special stuff.

The Big Daddies are the protectors of the Little Sisters (the guys in the big diving suits). If you want ADAM, you have to get to a Little Sister, but for that you'll have to dispose of the accompanying Big Daddy first :o

[FrozeN91]

I'm enjoying the hell out of this game. It's so much fun! Can't wait til' I get to play it without lag.. :p

[Quakis]

The Little Sisters can pull something called "ADAM" out of dead bodies, and you will need this ADAM to survive. I'm not sure what you can do with it, I'd have to play the game for that, but I guess it's some kind of currency for special stuff.

The Big Daddies are the protectors of the Little Sisters (the guys in the big diving suits). If you want ADAM, you have to get to a Little Sister, but for that you'll have to dispose of the accompanying Big Daddy first :o

That answered my question, thanks! :D

[Talos]

I'm like 3 hours into the game and the atmosphere is just mindblowing. Gaming-gems like Bioshock make games one of the best hobbies period :D

The water looks amazing to say the least!

[Scream]

Hey Blue Lightning. Hey Scream. How about taking this pissing match to private messages rather than in a thread?

It's not a pissing match. My initial post may have been irritated (and for that I apologize - I do find BL's POV frustrating, but reality was I had a shitty night last night and took it out a bit here), but I'm genuinely interested in what people are saying about this game being consolized. I don't see it personally.

[Monkey Butler]

It doesn't make sense to me that people would say that not being able to walk is evidence of consolitis. First of all, you CAN walk in the console version, so why would not being able to walk in the PC version be a result of the console release? Second of all, implementing walking would have been incredibly simple to do, so arguments that the PC version was rushed out don't hold weight in this respect (and as for the other bugs - every game has bugs. It's in the nature of PC gaming. And don't forget that the proportion of users affected by bugs will be artificially high if you're counting people talking in gaming forums). Third of all, ever think that maybe the devs just didn't want you to be able to walk in the PC version? Maybe just like with the lack of FBA they made a conscious decision, for aesthetic, gameplay or performance reasons not to include walking, but were forced to implement it into the 360 version because of the analogue control.

[Marty]

I'm like 3 hours into the game and the atmosphere is just mindblowing. Gaming-gems like Bioshock make games one of the best hobbies period :D

The water looks amazing to say the least!

yep, i love the atmosphere, totally immersive and believable.
i just cant wait til they release a patch so i can play this game in fullscreen, not windowed mode

[TBZ]

The sound in Bioshock, is amazing! From the little sounds, like hearing something creak a little bit from the strain Rapture gets from all the water, to the vending machines, the voices are great, you can even hear them coming because of the sound their footsteps make.
Truly amazing, and the atmosphere of the game, gains so much from this.
I'm only at the start off Neptune (can't remember the full name), but so far, the design of Rapture feels genuine, lots of places to see and explore.

Wow, I think I love this game! :love: :p

[Scream]

The sound in Bioshock, is amazing! From the little sounds, like hearing something creak a little bit from the strain Rapture gets from all the water, to the vending machines, the voices are great, you can even hear them coming because of the sound their footsteps make.
Truly amazing, and the atmosphere of the game, gains so much from this.
I'm only at the start off Neptune (can't remember the full name), but so far, the design of Rapture feels genuine, lots of places to see and explore.

Wow, I think I love this game! :love: :p

Ya, the sounds with 5.1 are especially unnerving. There's one part where there's a splicer a floor above you unaware that you're there below him, and you can hear him babbling to himself. He becomes increasingly agitated, babbling about Ryan and what a prick he is and how he's going to get him. I was trying to crack a safe below him, and it was freaking me out listening to him getting more and more pissed.

Oh, Houdini splicers are evil BTW. Not related to the topic, but just had to throw that in.

[CommanderZx2]

I love the way wading through deep water creates a wake behind you. It's one of my favourite things in bioshock.

The way you get slowed down by moving through water and turn around and see wake waves.


On another note, do you ever say anything positive ever Blue lightning? Every post on every single forum is always a moan and groan. Even months before bioshock was released you were complaining how it was going too far with killing children. Now still looking for more things to bitch about, copy pasting your posts into new threads on steampowered.com.

[Danule]

I love way wading through deep water creates a wake behind you. It's one of my favourite things in bioshock.

The way you get slowed down by moving through water and turn around and see wake waves.

thats only on the direct x 10 version for the pc. :(

[qwerty]

there are no exploding heads arent there ??

I made lots of headshots with every weapon but I never saw a head exploding like here (http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/4112/9570003kc2.jpg) :mad:

[Dogy]

there are no exploding heads arent there ??

I made lots of headshots with every weapon but I never saw a head exploding like here (http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/4112/9570003kc2.jpg) :mad:

Looks like just the soft particle (Is it?) blood captured at the right moment, giving it the appearance of an exploding head.

[Aegeri]

Such a great game.

Such a fantastically written storyline.

What a stupid ending fight.

[Sang]

thats only on the direct x 10 version for the pc. :(

Wtf? Why couldn't they just do it with DirectX 9? I mean, Morrowind had this (to some extent) and that was released in 2002. I think DX9 wasn't even around back then. So wtf?

lol i'm not that very pissed off rly i just wanted to mention morrowind again :dopefish:

[superevilcube]

BioShock is quite amazing so far. I'm about 7/8 through the game. The game gets better every time I go into a new area, hopefully this will continue to the end.

Don't know if this is a spoiler or not, but I'm just talking about plasmids and weapons:
The only problem I have with the game is that most plasmids seem useless. Electro Jolt, Incinerate and Telekinesis are the only ones I really use. I spent some Adam on a few others (Bee Swarm, the ice one) and they just didn't seem worth it. The bee one is funny to watch, but deals really bad damage.

Also, anyone else here just use the wrench while fighting any Slicer? The wrench just seems superior to killing people than most of the weapons (except the anti-personnel ammo and Crossbow).

[Sang]

Just saw the Bioshock commercial on TV. Pretty cool!

[Aegeri]

The only problem I have with the game is that most plasmids seem useless. Electro Jolt, Incinerate and Telekinesis are the only ones I really use. I spent some Adam on a few others (Bee Swarm, the ice one) and they just didn't seem worth it. The bee one is funny to watch, but deals really bad damage.

Also, anyone else here just use the wrench while fighting any Slicer? The wrench just seems superior to killing people than most of the weapons (except the anti-personnel ammo and Crossbow).

Plasmid use:

Winter Blast is one of the best spells in the game. If you have a high damage weapon (like the wrench) you can disable an enemy and insta-gib them without any resistance and this does apply to a big daddy (in combination with proxies on a gas tank+telekinesis). Additionally, freezing turrets or cameras slows down the flow of water dramatically without needing hacking plasmids so you can hack them much easier (actually, hacking is too easy anyway IMO). It also disables turrets for the longest period of time and is by far the best power for killing houdini splicers.

The bees are useless. I can't think of a single use for them except wasting adam buying the thing and eve using it.

Cyclone traps are useful for delaying enemies and you can put crossbow wires higher on the ceiling (where they aren't a threat to you) and then send enemies violently into them. I will grant you they are not very good otherwise and have limited application.

Decoy has a useful premise, but turns out to be utterly pointless in practice.

Security bullseye is also a waste of a plasmid slot.

Fury is variable in use, but is wonderful on levels with rosies as you can pretty much use rosies to completely clear some areas of enemies. It also helps in fights with large numbers of splicers at once. Generally, this is worth using unlike many of the other plasmids.

Hypnotise big daddy suffers the same issues as many other plasmids. great in theory, useless in practice.

Weapons I would disagree though. Once upgraded the shotgun and thompson are the two best weapons for killing anything tough (big daddies, bosses etc) in the game. The crossbow is good on normal dudes, but its low clipsize and slow reload between shots make it not as quite as good as the shotgun/thompson that are fully upgraded. The pistol is useless beyond the first few levels though. The chemical thrower has a lot of potential, but I never used it.

Most of the plasmids are completely useless though except the core 4.

[Jiminator]

ok, I haven't had much time and am just poking through the levels.
Questions,
about how many levels come after garden?
also do you collect enough adam to fill all the slots by the end of the game?

[Aegeri]

ok, I haven't had much time and am just poking through the levels.
Questions,
about how many levels come after garden?
also do you collect enough adam to fill all the slots by the end of the game?

About 4-6 or so. Some of them fairly large and one or two that are a little smaller.

No. You do not get enough adam to buy everything you would want. This is ok though, because most stuff is useless anyway.

[TBZ]

Good news, everyone! The guy who made the FOV/WS-hack for Bioshock has updated it, and now it supports Vista and DX10!
"update!

- Whats new in v1.2 on 8/25/07?
*added support for directx 10 mode

http://dl.tocaedit.com/bioshockdFOV.zip "

[Blue Lightning]

Ok here's the deal with Adam and Eve...


**********PLASMID SPOLIERS*******

I don't know if this is regaurded as spoilers because the trailers talk quite a bit about this, but Adam is what you need to buy Plasmids. The game give's you a couple of free Plasmids and they are: Electric, and later Telekensis Other than that you must buy Plasmids and only Adam can do that. The place to get this a Gathers Garden. once you have the Plasmids, you never lose them so you only need the Adam to get them in the first place. However once you have the different Plasmids, you cannot use them without Eve. Eve is like magica (Oblivion) or Mana (Dark Messiah), and when you use your plasmids your also using your Eve because it fuels the Plasmids. When you give yourself the shot with the hypo...well that's Eve.

they say that Adam is the "money of Rapture" well....not quite. It is in a way, but it can only buy Plasmids and some genitic tonics, plus it can buy the open slots you will need to place them in..but that's all Adam can do.

The money of Rapture is...money! You will need to find and earn plenty of money to buy things like health and stuff at Vending Machines.

[Dr. Kill]

Just tried the pc demo, and the 360 demo ran quite a bit smoother. Also, the damn thing crashed on me. If I get this, it will most likely be the 360 version.

[avatar_58]

Just like System Shock I'm overwhelmed even in the smallest of areas. :D I want to look at and touch everything and listen to the splicer's conversations with themselves. Great game.

Also, and this may be the adventure gamer in me, but did the intro scene with the elevator ride remind anyone else of Myst? It had the same feel.

[Micki!]

It's a great game...
I already beat it, but it's cool...

Didn't look around much it appears... Afterall, it seems you could return to any previous area/level to look around, but i was curious how the game ended haha. Didn't even find all weaponss upgrade stations... and i never tried all kinds of Plasmids... Others i had were never even used...

Anyways, on my second play-through, i will examine the levels as much as i can...

Chmical thrower is a great weapon... But i can't really seem to get why the fluid nitrogen is so effective... sure, i can freeze several enemies at the same time in a one blow, but sometimes they thaw up too quickly for me to decide how to kill them in time... Feels wrong to use one weapon, only to kill them by swithcing to another afterall

I like the fact that freezing enemies gives them a seperate "life bar"... so that you must destroy them in time before they thaw up, hehe...

The research camera is cool...
One would think it becomes unfair and hard in the end, but the camera makes it up for it when you get enough of thier weaknesses...

And i always had too much ammo on me... Pays alot to actually using the ammo type that enemies are weaker against...

[Iggy]

http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/5079/bioerroriv9.jpg

Third time I installed it and tried to launch it and still getting this error. Anyone from Europe that is able to play the full retail version? (Not from Steam)

[Quakis]

I get the exact same error when attempting to run the demo. (which I got via steam though)

[WestSeven]

Hey Iggy. Yes I'm in Europe (UK) and got the Steam version working on day of release. There were some problems but it was working properly within 2 hours. I didn't see an error like yours - I would maybe try posting it on the Steam forums (assuming you have the Steam version)

[Dave-ros]

Reinstalling may fix it........?! :D

Filename path indicates he's not using the Steam version ;)

[Iggy]

I have the CE retail version.

During installation I noticed the AutoPatcher downloaded something. Of course it didn't bother telling me what it downloads so does anyone know about a patch?

[Micki!]

I have the CE retail version.

During installation I noticed the AutoPatcher downloaded something. Of course it didn't bother telling me what it downloads so does anyone know about a patch?

I live in Denmark, i have been playing the game since tuesday...

The autopatcher seemed to fix an error i had before...
I couldn't load a single game in fullscreen mode... all of a sudden, it worked fine though... i believe the patch fixed that...

I haven't gotten the error message that you have at any point though

[Quakis]

I looked around and it mentioned to install vcredist_x86.exe (which is also found on the DVD) I did this and the demo loads up without the error. Worth a try? (the file should be found in the game's folder if you got it via Steam)

[ShadeEX]

Yeah the game needs Microsoft Windows C++ 2005 thats on the Bioshock DvD in a subfolder...

[Dave-ros]

Ah, I wondered why that installed when I first ran the demo :o

[Iggy]

I looked around and it mentioned to install vcredist_x86.exe (which is also found on the DVD) I did this and the demo loads up without the error. Worth a try? (the file should be found in the game's folder if you got it via Steam)

If only Windows was as clear as this. Now it indeed makes sense. I'll have to look for C++ 2005 on Microsoft.com since the included ones on the DVD are not meant for 64-bit operating systems such as mine.

Edit;
Found it. (http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=90548130-4468-4BBC-9673-D6ACABD5D13B&displaylang=en)

Edit 2;
There we go again.

http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/144/cerrorun3.jpg

[Quakis]

So I got the demo to run and wow, BioShock is awesome. It's all black and the fire disappears! :p I really need a new graphics card. :D

[ShadeEX]

If only Windows was as clear as this. Now it indeed makes sense. I'll have to look for C++ 2005 on Microsoft.com since the included ones on the DVD are not meant for 64-bit operating systems such as mine.

Edit;
Found it. (http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=90548130-4468-4BBC-9673-D6ACABD5D13B&displaylang=en)

Edit 2;
There we go again.

http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/144/cerrorun3.jpg

Right click run as Admin ;) if your using Vista..

If not then I'll have to poke around..

[Dave-ros]

Has anyone got this through Steam? What size is the download? As you can guess, I'm planning next month's bandwidth already :D

(What, buy it off the shelf and have to stick the disc in the drive every time? It's the 21st century, get with the times, online shopping's where it's at, daddio! :p)

[ShadeEX]

Retail is 5.51GB

Excluding other folders made for settings etc.

[hanged_man]

^^ Actually i think its more like 6.3 gigabytes ..."torrents" are your friend :p

[Water12356]

Ive been w/o power for 3 days now due to the storms that rocked the midwest... At work posting this right now. Damnit I wana play Bioshock!! :mad:

[ShadeEX]

^^ Actually i think its more like 6.3 gigabytes ..."torrents" are your friend :p

My folder says 5.51GB :p

[CommanderZx2]

^^ Actually i think its more like 6.3 gigabytes ..."torrents" are your friend :p

Bloody pirates.

I just finished Bioshock and I must say it's one of the best games ever.

[hanged_man]

pirates are not yet able to crack this game which is a good thing ...hope upcoming pc games follow the same manner to bring back faith in this platform

[TBZ]

I have a question, have anyone watched the Making Of-DVD? If so, should I wait to watch it until I have finished the game due to spoilers, or can I watch it now and not get some major spoilers shoved in my face?

[CommanderZx2]

Is there a built in SDK that I am too blind to see?
I was digging around in the game files and found:
http://xs218.xs.to/xs218/07340/EdSplash.jpg
Found in: \Steam\steamapps\common\bioshock\Content\System\Lo gos

[Scream]

Plasmid use:

Winter Blast is one of the best spells in the game.



I agree that it's extremely effective. The problem I have with it is that when you shatter enemies using it there is no body left behind to loot and of course enemy bodies are the main source of cash in the game. I tend to use it on enemies when I'm in a tough situation and am fearing for my life. Otherwise, I stick with something that leaves some remains.

It IS great for hacking security bots, turrets and cameras for sure.

I found the Hypnotize Big Daddy plasmid useful at the end of the Arcadia/Farmer's Market level when you were fighting off 3 waves of splicers waiting for the air to clear. He took out a bunch of them for me (until he stepped on one my my proximity mines, hurt himself and then started attacking me :().



Question about the two different endings. I've been saving all the little sisters so far. Am I gonna need to play the whole game through again and harvest them all, or can I simply load up a saved game close to the end and harvest one of them to see the alternate ending?

Are there any other major differences in the game based on whether you harvest or save?

[Pontiaction]

Question about the two different endings. I've been saving all the little sisters so far. Am I gonna need to play the whole game through again and harvest them all, or can I simply load up a saved game close to the end and harvest one of them to see the alternate ending?According to my friend who beat the game last week, you only need to harvest one to get the alternate ending.

[Pontiaction]

I have a question, have anyone watched the Making Of-DVD? If so, should I wait to watch it until I have finished the game due to spoilers, or can I watch it now and not get some major spoilers shoved in my face?I watched the making-of DVD last night and have not played the game yet. :) I wouldn't consider anything on the disc a spoiler. It's more like backstory about the development process, and what certain characters, gameplay mechanics, etc. were going to be until they evolved. They do mention some of the NPCs by name, and briefly speak of some of their personality characteristics in a very general sort of way, when they talk about voice acting. That's about it.

On a semi-related note, after watching the interviews with the Irrational crew, now I'm playing through System Shock 2 again and I swear I'm hearing Ken Levine's voice in the logs.

[TBZ]

Okay, in that case I might watch it now :)

Thanks

[Scream]

According to my friend who beat the game last week, you only need to harvest one to get the alternate ending.

Great thanks. I will likely play it through again at some point, but doubt I'll be doing it right away and will want to check out the alternate ending.

[Jiminator]

for weapon use: there are a couple of wrench powerups, combined with shock and shock on damage they are pretty effective means of dealing with most enemies

[CommanderZx2]

According to my friend who beat the game last week, you only need to harvest one to get the alternate ending.

Your friend would be incorrect though. You have to harvest more than save, I think quite a bit more to get the other ending.

[Scream]

Your friend would be incorrect though. You have to harvest more than save, I think quite a bit more to get the other ending.

Really? Ugh.

[Llama Gibbz]

Is there a built in SDK that I am too blind to see?
I was digging around in the game files and found:
http://xs218.xs.to/xs218/07340/EdSplash.jpg
Found in: \Steam\steamapps\common\bioshock\Content\System\Lo gos

Nope,for reason they left that in there to taunt us though.:(

[Hudson]

I'm sure they'll release an SDK/Editor sometime in the future.

[Micki!]

I'm sure they'll release an SDK/Editor sometime in the future.

I'd love seeing mods of this game Floating (literally, haha) around...

[Yatta]

Is it just me or does the Cult of Rapture logo bear a striking resemblance to the goatman?

http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/4446/1188157859881rm2.jpg

[Pontiaction]

Your friend would be incorrect though. You have to harvest more than save, I think quite a bit more to get the other ending.Gah, what a fool, I shall have to beat him. :D

Thanks for the clarification.

[Dave-ros]

Damn you, Yattard :eek: :mryuck: :brickwall: :o :D

There's a ring on one of the "fingers" -- is that on the G0ats3 M4n as well?

[Denz]

I'm sure it is.

[TBZ]

It is.
Hunting Big Daddys is FUN, but then the fun stops when the Little Sister start crying and screaming "Why won't you move?!"
It makes me feel like a total bastard every time :(

[CommanderZx2]

Gah, what a fool, I shall have to beat him. :D

Thanks for the clarification.

Hmm, some people I know online are saying that they harvested one and got the good ending and some are saying that harvesting even one gets the bad. I dunno anymore...

[Pontiaction]

Hmm, some people I know online are saying that they harvested one and got the good ending and some are saying that harvesting even one gets the bad. I dunno anymore...Hmm, perhaps there are other contributing factors as well?

[Aegeri]

Your friend would be incorrect though. You have to harvest more than save, I think quite a bit more to get the other ending.
No, he is correct. You only need to harvest one little sister to get the evil ending.

The question seems to hinge on if you do it after the first one or not. It may actually be the case the first little sister you can do either or to and it doesn't count. So you can harvest the first one and so long as you don't harvest any others, it may be ok.

Either way, if you want the evil ending you don't have to put a lot of effort to get it compared to the 'good' ending.

[CommanderZx2]

Hmm, perhaps there are other contributing factors as well?

I think I might know what one of the contributing things are:
I've read some places that killing that guy that you "assist" in fort frolic counts as an evil deed. You know the guy who likes his photos of corpses.

Edit: It seems a bit harsh to damn the player for just one imo.

[Aegeri]

No, killing him makes no difference except access to an area later on in the game.

On Fort Frolics mad splicer

For amusement, kill him later in the game in Olympus Heights and then go back to Fort Frolic. Set his masterpiece on fire and he'll come back from the dead to try and kick your ass.

Good times.

[FullMetalJacket]

I harvested 2 little sisters, rescued the rest and got the good ending. :)

[CommanderZx2]

No, killing him makes no difference except access to an area later on in the game.

On Fort Frolics mad splicer

For amusement, kill him later in the game in Olympus Heights and then go back to Fort Frolic. Set his masterpiece on fire and he'll come back from the dead to try and kick your ass.

Good times.
Haha, I think fort frolic is possibly my favourite level.

I loved the part when you put the 3rd photo in and he sends swarms of enemies at you and that music is playing... It's just awesome.

I also liked those splicers that would stop moving and pretend to be statues when you looked their way. The first time I met them was kinda freaky. I was walking through some water and I heard sounds behind me, I turn to see a 5 statues all behind me that weren't there before... of course they all jumped me as soon as I turned and continued on my way.

[Scream]

No, killing him makes no difference except access to an area later on in the game.

On Fort Frolics mad splicer

For amusement, kill him later in the game in Olympus Heights and then go back to Fort Frolic. Set his masterpiece on fire and he'll come back from the dead to try and kick your ass.

Good times.


Hmm. I didn't even consider NOT killing him. As soon as he showed up at the top of the stairs I started blasting his ass. Didn't realize I'd have an option, as so far I hadn't met any NPC in the game face to face that was friendly. Seeing as how he'd been sending splicers to kick my ass on a frequent basis, I figured he deserved a good ass kicking himself. So what am I not going to be able to get at later on because of it?

Minor spoiler not story related:

On another note, I really like hypnotizing one Big Daddy, and then taking a single shot with the pistol at another. Good way to watch a good fight and score a couple hundred gold at the end. :)

[Damien_Azreal]

Hello to all,

Back in town for the first time since Thursday morning. Off to play some BioShock for the first time in about four days.

[avatar_58]

You know, I saw a lot of complaining about the regeneration chambers in this game.....but people forgot one very important thing:

System Shock already did this! Yet both of them are considered classics. No one cared that dying in SS1 or 2 meant nothing, so why do they care now? Honestly it's not that different than constant quicksaving and reloading now is it?

[Phait]

Probably cause SS1 and 2 were niche games I guess and not as popular as games are today, so people aren't familiar with SS1/2? That's my guess.

[Scream]

You know, I saw a lot of complaining about the regeneration chambers in this game.....but people forgot one very important thing:

System Shock already did this! Yet both of them are considered classics. No one cared that dying in SS1 or 2 meant nothing, so why do they care now? Honestly it's not that different than constant quicksaving and reloading now is it?

The big difference is that anything you did as far as damage to an enemy stays after you're regenerated, so unlike a quick save where you'd have to start the whole battle over, this way you can wear down a Big Daddy (for example) across multiple deaths.

I really don't see it as an issue though. Works for me. This game is more about the narrative than a challenge (for me at least).

[avatar_58]

Probably cause SS1 and 2 were niche games I guess and not as popular as games are today, so people aren't familiar with SS1/2? That's my guess.

This was touted as a System Shock spiritual successor, not sure what else one could expect.

The big difference is that anything you did as far as damage to an enemy stays after you're regenerated, so unlike a quick save where you'd have to start the whole battle over, this way you can wear down a Big Daddy (for example) across multiple deaths.

I really don't see it as an issue though. Works for me. This game is more about the narrative than a challenge (for me at least).

Thats how it worked in System Shock too though. You could take an explosive and detonate on yourself and then respawn to see the enemy's corspe and you without a scratch.

Not a single person complains today about that, yet it's the end of the world in Bioshock? Seems like a bias is appearing...

[Scream]

This was touted as a System Shock spiritual successor, not sure what else one could expect.



Thats how it worked in System Shock too though. You could take an explosive and detonate on yourself and then respawn to see the enemy's corspe and you without a scratch.

Not a single person complains today about that, yet it's the end of the world in Bioshock? Seems like a bias is appearing...

Well, personally I've never played System Shock 2, so I wouldn't know. From what I've heard though, it sounds like Bioshock might be somewhat more action oriented than SS2, so perhaps some people find this less acceptable in an action game where part of what you're trying to do is get better with your combat skills (and being able to respawn endlessly with no penalty doesn't really encourage that). How death is handled in a game, and whether it's a good way of handling it or not, can depend on what kind of game it is.

As far as I'm concerned, the way it's handled in Bioshock is fine. I've only used the Vita-Chamber twice when I was getting irritated with the particular battle I'd tried a half dozen times from a save game. The rest of the time I reload from a save game.

[Damien_Azreal]

I don't have any issue with it, and it doesn't always make the game easier. True, in SS2 you had to activate the machines and they did use some of your nanites.

But at least these only give you a minimum of health and eve.

Scream, BioShock is so damn similar to SS2 it's not even funny. You can play SS2 as a straight forward shooter.... and it would play the same way. The games are incredibly alike, I'm playing BioShock the same way I did SS2... sticking with melee mostly, (with of course my plasmids).

[avatar_58]

Maybe I'm biased because both Ultima VII and Planescape also don't penalize deaths. I've just come to see game deaths as a non issue.

[Scream]

Dying is punishment enough. :)

Personally, I HATE redoing the same stuff over again just because I wasn't good enough the first time around. I want things to always be moving forward, regardless of my skill. Like I said, for a game like this it's about the narrative, and seeing the sites. :)

The good thing about this one is that with it's save system it allows you to play either way.

[Wamplet]

Fort Frolic Question:

When you first make your way into the theatre area, there is a side stairway BEFORE you take the elevator up to the accessible theatre.

Now up those steps is just a storage room with a playable guitar and then a room which looks like a pprojection room and you see a guy's shadow and the projector, as well as an audio log and a potion.

How do you get in there?

I tried useing telekenisis on both items but i couldn't get them.

I noticed part of that room has a stairwell or something that seems to point to somethingon the top rigth corner of the theatre once you get up there, but i saw nothing on the wall like a crawlspace or anything to get to it.

[Aegeri]

You know, I saw a lot of complaining about the regeneration chambers in this game.....but people forgot one very important thing:

System Shock already did this! Yet both of them are considered classics. No one cared that dying in SS1 or 2 meant nothing, so why do they care now? Honestly it's not that different than constant quicksaving and reloading now is it?

They are not comparable:

1) System Shock 2s were rare, not every deck had them and you had to find them first. Bioshock grants you them automatically, the things are bizzairely everywhere for some reason that actually doesn't have a satisfactory answer (except perhaps complete paranoia).

2) In SS2, except on easy, you paid nanites to use them and at high difficulties you respawned basically almost dead and it took a lot of nanites to actually respawn. Considering that in SS2, nanites didn't exactly spawn off trees and were precious for many things (Hacking cost nanites, unlike the free hacking in Bioshock: Vending machines took a lot of nanites for decent items etc).

SS2 did it right. Bioshock does it wrong. That's the best comparison. SS2 had a system that rewarded resource management. Bioshock has a system that makes resource management a joke.

Wamplet: Come back just before leaving the level in the bathysphere, it will be open then.

[Nacho]

I made a mini site for stuff I find in Bioshock. Call it a hobby if you will. ;)

Just started it today so there's nothing much on it other then I copied out the Audio Logs for 'Welcome to Rapture' and 'Medical Pavilion' as no one seems to have done that so far. Starting work on the ones from Neptunes Bounty now.

I have one issue and its something Dr.Steinman says in one it sounds like Four-oh silk.

Anyways here's the site for those who feel like reading Bioshock out of game:
http://www.freewebs.com/bioshocks/

[Aegeri]

The good thing about this one is that with it's save system it allows you to play either way.

This isn't the main problem, it's just one of many that make the game very easy (even on hard)

1) Hacking is so easy you might as well hack everything and why care? You lose nothing for failing to hack (A safe should jam shut permanently IMO, ala SS2, or even explode in your face), it costs no eve or money to do so, so it's just run around and do the terribly simplistic mini-game. Unlike SS2, which also had a terribly simplistic minigame for hacking, Bioshocks hacking has no consequence at all (You cannot die from short circuiting something I've recently discovered and turning on alarms is a rare side effect... that merely provides you with bots that are easy to disable and hack anyway) and you don't even have to pay money/eve whatever to start. Also, unlike SS2, you are not vulnerable while hacking something, because the game pauses and I literally cannot buy the concept of running through a field of gunfire and then hacking some turret while everyone stands and watches. I can hack something at max difficulty with good plasmids in around 2-3 seconds, which isn't a terribly long time but under fire would be intense. It would make hacking interesting again, rather than a boring minigame that's so easy to do, I wish I could buy a plasmid just to autohack things anyway (rather than waste the few seconds it takes to actually hack something).

For those who haven't played SS2, hacking basically didn't pause the game (unlike in bioshock) but was also a lot more/less interesting. The minigame itself wasn't as fun as bioshocks (which is great), but it was more challenging because you needed certain levels of hacking to hack certain things (like security crates, turrets, cameras and the like). But even though the minigame wasn't as interesting, the fact you had to do it under fire, or risk being snuck up on and hit in the bum while hacking gave it a certain sense of urgency. Additionally, if you failed to hack something you lost the nanites (money) you spent initiating the hack, or what you were hacking exploded or you set off the alarm (which in SS2, isn't just about standing still with the chameleon power then disabling one for a free buddy). Basically, hacking something was actually dangerous, but the rewards for doing so made the risk worthwhile. In bioshock, there is minimal risk if you are at least semi-competent at the minigame and the rewards are massive.

2) There is far too much ammunition and the U-Invent it + hacking +components everywhere mean you'll never run out of ammunition again. This goes also for medical kits and eve syringes, which seem almost impossible to run out of except in fights with big daddies.

3) I have a sneaking suspicion it's possible to upgrade nearly every one of your weapons (or all of them), making little choice involved in what to actually upgrade. Some upgrades are also ridiculously overpowered, like the grenade launcher making you immune to your own grenades damage.

4) Enemies need more plasmids and powers. They could use things like static discharge and such more often than they have now and earlier in the game as well on harder difficulty. This surely can't be hard to do, just give them more plasmids/tonics earlier on harder difficulty and make them significantly more dangerous. There is a point in the game that splicers are almost speedbumps and if you have the hypnotise big daddy plasmid (which makes getting adam and a whole crapload of money really, really, really simple) it just makes most encounters a precession. I wouldn't mind seeing spider splicers pick up chameleon, leadheads pick up something (not sure what would help them), houdinis are already pretty good as they are and thuggish splicers start getting static shock earlier in the game. Something to make splicers more variable.

5) As above, make vita-chambers function identically to SS2 in that you pay to use them. $15 dollars would be pocket change to some denizens of Rapture but to the player, would be a significant resource cost (especially if other aspects of difficulty are balanced more appropriately).

6) There is way too much adam. There is almost no requirement to make really hard choices involving what to spend things on beyond Neptunes Bounty. This is because most plasmids are useless (I wrote about this earlier) and that you have so much adam, you can buy everything you want just about anyway.

Now you may say "lulz its about the narrative!!1oneone", but when I click on "Hard", I expect a challenge. If I wanted to stroll through the game barely being challenged for the story, there is easy. Hard should be hard.

[Blue Lightning]

Fort Frolic may be my favorite level in the game. A beautiful mall, isolated from the rest of rapture, Even isolated from Fontaine and Ryan, run by an insane but genius musician: Sandra Cohen...who lives only for fame and could care less about the Fontains and Ryan fued (though he seems to side a little with Ryan). he even cuts off their transmission. He teases you at first and tests you because he is bored with that no one of any consequence ever vistis Fort Frolic. Your his little moth and out to the test to see if your worthy...and part of that test is to fulfill his insane collection. He despises the normal AI trapped in his mall, and describes them as Rubes. LOL good stuff.

Fort Frolic interesting and even spooky story within the story...an off-the-wall situation that has little to do with the main story, but is a fun diversion from it...kinda like Father Grigori and the haunted Ravenholm chapter of HL2.

If you don't kill Cohen, which is hard to do since he is a powerful Houdini Splicer, I wonder if the lunitic helps you in the end somehow...

[Aegeri]

It's not hard at all to kill him. One crossbow bolt to the face with damage research ++ and it's all over.

Edit: The crossbow does ridiculous amounts of damage.

[0marTheZealot]

Is it just me or are the physics really, really choppy? The ragdolls/objects don't move very smoothly at all, they kind of jerk around before coming to a rest.

[Nihilanth]

Is it just me or are the physics really, really choppy? The ragdolls/objects don't move very smoothly at all, they kind of jerk around before coming to a rest.

If you mean that their movement is like a slide-show instead of being smooth then yes, I've got the same issue. Based on demo.

[Water12356]

My power is back on! This game rocks! (currently at Neptunes Bounty)

[Malgon]

Just popping in (since there's to much to read! :eek:) to say that Bioshock is holding up to my expectations throughout, and it's pretty much exactly what I thought it would've been. Congrats go to Irrational for designing a well rounded and tight experience thus far. :cool:

Edit: Oh yeah, and the performance on my new rig is flawless at 1600 x 1200, with everything maxed out! :woot: Also the CE totally rocks. :love:

[Lethe]

This isn't the main problem, it's just one of many that make the game very easy (even on hard)

Cut

.

I agree on almost all points you made here. It is nice that they at least managed to do something different with this game but I think it is shame that they simplified some things so much. Since Oblivion, there is this trend where developers tend to remove every bit of challenge from their games. That annoys me very much. Where is the reward and point of choices if the game lets you do all the things almost equally good?

If only those games could let me uncheck "suited for mentally retared and lazy" checkbox. Call me old fashioned, but I don't drool over the "one button gameplay" future of pc gaming.

Also, I remember them promising that trailers won't really spoil this game cose they show just one small percentage of the final game... Well, I guess they were not talking about npcs...

[Aegeri]

I love how turning off adaptive training and the item glow is completely ignored. No, I don't want a huge yellow glow on things.

No, I don't want to be reminded that I can press TAB to duck.

Also, can someone please explain to Irrational that I'm not likely to turn my computer off while saving *cough*.

[crunchy superman]

Just started playing this in earnest last night. Wow, what an awesome game! The atmosphere is truly amazing! Thanks, Irrational - this is exactly what I was looking for to get me enjoying video games again.

[Dave-ros]

Also, can someone please explain to Irrational that I'm not likely to turn my computer off while saving *cough*.
Oh no, they forgot to change the message when converting from the 360 version?! I'm sure I've seen another PC game that assumes you have a PS1 controller, but that was years ago :o

[FireFly]

I love how turning off adaptive training and the item glow is completely ignored. No, I don't want a huge yellow glow on things.
So you're saying that turning off these elements in the options menu has no effect on the actual game?

[Lethe]

I love how turning off adaptive training and the item glow is completely ignored. No, I don't want a huge yellow glow on things.

No, I don't want to be reminded that I can press TAB to duck.

Also, can someone please explain to Irrational that I'm not likely to turn my computer off while saving *cough*.

I expected this game to be encouraging for developers to try and do different stuff, but all it improves is the field of narrative and storytelling, which is really great, but it also encourages something that I thought this game will fight against - lazyness and simplicity.

What we have here is really nice game, and considering the problems they had in development, maybe I should be happy that it even got the green light for production... But... I somehow doubt that Kevin Levine was honest where he said that the game came out to be exactly like he imagined it. It is painfully obvious that, despite all the good sides, this game is full of dirty compromises to make it more appealing to the mass market.

[Aegeri]

So you're saying that turning off these elements in the options menu has no effect on the actual game?

I'm pretty sure that it removes the glow on a fair amount of items (pretty sure), but that the glow remains on some things at random. For example, the first wrench you get doesn't glow, but the revolver in the pram does. All of the goal important stuff glows (doors, switches and such) and there are sometimes random glowing items.

It doesn't appear the option works correctly.

[Scream]

Fort Frolic Question:

When you first make your way into the theatre area, there is a side stairway BEFORE you take the elevator up to the accessible theatre.

Now up those steps is just a storage room with a playable guitar and then a room which looks like a pprojection room and you see a guy's shadow and the projector, as well as an audio log and a potion.

How do you get in there?

I tried useing telekenisis on both items but i couldn't get them.

I noticed part of that room has a stairwell or something that seems to point to somethingon the top rigth corner of the theatre once you get up there, but i saw nothing on the wall like a crawlspace or anything to get to it.

Edit: I see Aegeri beat me to it :)

[Scream]

This isn't the main problem, it's just one of many that make the game very easy (even on hard)



I guess after reading your points I think it all comes down to taste and preference. SS2, while a critical success, was a sales failure. Part of that is accessibility. I guess that ultimately, people like yourself are outside the norm or average on what you're looking for in a game. Everything that you list that would make the game better for you, would likely make it worse/too difficult/annoying for others.

Some of us gamers have short attention spans I guess. I'm just starting Hephaestus, and hoping something happens to shake this game up a bit as I'm finding it repetitive. I know it could be argued that if it was more challenging I might not feel that way, but I think the reality for me is that it's already running a little long, and any increase in difficulty would just make it frustrating, having it land on my shelf as another game that only got half finished.

Perhaps for some people it's impossible to marry action and RPG, or at least the way Bioshock does it is not what it takes for you and me, as we're at opposite ends of the spectrum as to why we find it less than fully satisfying.

Don't get me wrong. This is a quality game. I'm glad I bought it and I will be finishing it. I'll likely poke around in it a bit afterwards to try some plasmid combos I didn't try the first time through as well. However, I don't think this game will be remembered by myself as one of my top 10 of all time. It may be my cup of tea, but not my brand perhaps. ;)

[Aegeri]

Everything that you list that would make the game better for you, would likely make it worse/too difficult/annoying for others.

Then play on easy. Problem solved.

I don't know what people don't understand about this. Hard should be hard. It's why we theoretically have easy, medium and hard difficulty levels to begin with. Not strolling through the park, speed-bump and supermarket checkout line (With your choice of paper or plastic!).

Hard should be hard.

Really. It should be.

[Hudson]

I agree Aegeri on all fronts. Still, it's an amazing game.. i'm hoping at some point a mod gets released that remedies all those points which you mentioned.

[Sang]

unlike a quick save where you'd have to start the whole battle over, this way you can wear down a Big Daddy (for example) across multiple deaths..

Frankly I think that's a really lame way to play the game, even if you have a choice about wether or not you'll do that. It's the same reason why I (unlike everyone else it seems) am not too fond of Coop in any game unless I play through it with a few players that I know. Just joining into some random room.. I mostly die all the time, run up to the spot where I got killed, attack the enemy a little bit more, die again,.. repeat.. until the enemy is dead. I did it all the time in Sven Coop and it sucked ass - Or that is to say, I sucked ass because I couldn't play it any other way.

So I guess this is the same thing. I never used those reconstruction machines in System Shock 2 either. If I'm dead, I want to be dead! ;)

[Hudson]

They did come in handy however when you realize you were so sucked into the game you forgot to save for three hours ;)

[Aegeri]

I'm trying to see if I can't find a few bugs to get outside the city for some underwater action.

[Hudson]

Haha, if you do make sure to take a snapshot when you hit the whale in the head with the wrench :D

[Aegeri]

That would be really fun to try actually. I know that the Squid actually stops behind the building (the one you see just as rapture is revealed). You can actually see one of his tentacles poking out motionless from just behind the building.

I could do a bit of whale riding for some cultural fun!

[Sang]

They did come in handy however when you realize you were so sucked into the game you forgot to save for three hours ;)

No shit :mad:

I had that happening in Morrowind, more or less, I hadn't saved for like 30 minutes and I got killed by a group of monsters (that I underestimated).. Imagine how much more it would've sucked if it were 3 hours ago!

[avatar_58]

Since Oblivion, there is this trend where developers tend to remove every bit of challenge from their games. That annoys me very much. Where is the reward and point of choices if the game lets you do all the things almost equally good?

That began way before Oblivion. I still can't find platformers that punish you as much the NES and SNES. They simply don't exist (or if they do, they suck).

I just really think the death thing is overplayed. People make a big deal over it except that quicksaving has been a staple of PC gaming since the old days. If you can quicksave, then isn't the challenge virtually gone already in theory? Logically I could quicksave at every corner and reload when I get hurt even in the slightest.

In games with quicksaves I find myself doing it at stupid times when I shouldn't be. Hell I'm still doing it in Bioshock even knowing the chambers exist.

In fact I didn't even use the regen chambers in SS2, I just reloaded.

True game-deaths occur when you actually can't quicksave and lose progress, like having to start the level or dungeon over again. Thats a console game thing though, because you can't just save when you please. Irrational should have either made regen chambers and restrict saving to save points, or remove the two of them and allow quicksaving only. Thats the only real solution.

However I can't agree that say - Doom 3, FEAR or Half-life were any harder than this when you could just quicksave to your heart's content.

[Hudson]

Oblivion made it mainstream though :mad:

[Aegeri]

Quicksaving is somewhat different, I can make a conscious effort not to bother quicksaving like a lunatic if required. I find it more difficult to not use something that is actually deliberately built into the game as an actual gameplay mechanic. For example, I could play the game artificially in ways that would make it more difficult, like letting the enemies kill me - but that is not particularly constructive.

Edit: I thought FEAR had a good level of difficulty throughout. I never saved at all in that game and numerous fights were intense and extremely fun because of it. I haven't a single memorable fight in all of bioshock except for hillarious situations where there was just complete chaos everywhere. Despite that, I never actually felt under threat at all in these encounters because I was generally responsible for initiating 90% of the chaos anyway.

Bonus edit: Also, the fellow who made the cradle in Deadly Shadows made Fort Frolic.

[Wamplet]

Edit: I see Aegeri beat me to it :)

I think he was referring to fighting Cohen.

WOULD YOU KINDLY... ;) Let a brotha know how to get in the film room on that level?

[Jiminator]

it open at the end :)

[Scream]

I think he was referring to fighting Cohen.

WOULD YOU KINDLY... ;) Let a brotha know how to get in the film room on that level?

I killed Cohen, and when I went back to that spot (as it was the only place I couldn't get to) the gate was now open. I'm not sure if killing him was the trigger for that or not, but that's what I did, and I'm guessing that was it. You'd likely want to first let him give you the other tonic under the glass, and THEN attack him. When you search his body after killing him you'll also get the key for his little treasure chest under the other glassed in pedestal.

[Nacho]

Or...

You could let him live get the tonic and then go up to the film room. Let him live and later on in the game you can gain access to his apartment building in which you kill him there to get the key.