School-shooting in Finland.

[peoplessi]

A gunman who killed a headteacher at a school in Finland has been caught, according to Finnish media sources.
...
He added that the gunman, believed to be an 18-year-old 12th grader, is thought to have had a fascination with dictatorial figures such as Hitler and Stalin.

The school is believed, according to local media, to be Jokela High School, attended by more than 400 students, aged between 12 and 18.

A video was posted on the Web site YouTube two weeks ago under the heading "Jokela High School Massacre - 11/7/2007."


http://edition.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/europe/11/07/school.shooting/index.html
http://xfire.be/?x=journal&mode=item&id=41126
http://atlantis.dreamland.org/~mnc/temp/jokela/ig-paivakirja.png

I was naive and thought such things would never happen in Finland. He was caught. Unofficially there is believe to be up to seven dead. In the scale of Finland this is big. 400 pupils, and seven die due gungrazed shooter.

It has been years since the Myyrmanni-Bomber Petri Gerdt who blew himself up in a shoppingmall. He was a polytechnic student, chemistry.

[peoplessi]

Some f*cking lunatic flipped today and shot students, and teachers in Finland. It is rumoured that the amount of victims that have died could be up to seven.

http://edition.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/europe/11/07/school.shooting/index.html

Really sad thing.

Micki! what grade are you in?

[Fjallraven]

^Too bad, why does people do that. Lunatics.

[alexgk]

That sucks :(.

[peoplessi]

http://www.kimmo.org/jokela/

Some of the stuff here is in Finnish, but his "manifest" is in english too.

[avatar_58]

I'm starting to think all these events are causing other wannabes to think "Hell, I've felt like doing that for years." and they end up finally going through with it. Theres a lot of people that contemplate suicide in this world, and even more that would gladly seek revenge on classmates :(

What I cannot sympathize with is the need to kill innocent teachers or students who didn't even know the shooter. If your need to kill is based on revenge and hatred for those who treated you like crap, why are you killing innocents? If a terrible bully is gunned down it makes more sense.

I don't know, maybe I'm trying to make sense of the senseless...


Sang - I read that. It's not what you think though, the girl is a twin. The other twin was born with no head and thus the body parts serve as a parasite for the body. She has no control over them and they require the heart and system to work twice as hard. Thats why they need to be removed for her to live a healthy life. Quite sad actually.

[Sang]

If your need to kill is based on revenge and hatred for those who treated you like crap, why are you killing innocents?

Perhaps they (the shooters) panic and do stupid things - like gunning innocent people. Or they get caught in the crossfire.. A student who wants revenge isn't a military specialist so obviously there would be a number of stray bullets.

It also sucks that they commit suicide afterwards. It makes sense in the way that they don't want to deal with the emotional "luggage" of having killed many innocent people, or that they want to escape justice. But that's the only 2 reasons there could be..

[peoplessi]

The gunman was caught alive. They have now confirmed that atleast 7 people have died, atleast.

[avatar_58]

No, people who make that choice do so because they feel there is nothing left. Thats why they kill themselves. They just wanted to take as many people down with them as they could. However I don't buy the stray bullets arguements - sometimes the ONLY people killed had no idea who the shooter was.

To me that almost comes off like the shooter was a sadist who wanted to cause pain and suffering to anyone, maybe to make them feel what he feels.

The gunman was caught alive. They have now confirmed that atleast 7 people have died, atleast.

Thats probably a first. Maybe he couldn't go through with offing himself.

[peoplessi]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jokela_School_shooting

This seems to be pretty good summary on the situation.

[Mr.Fibbles]

The gunman was caught before suicide? That should make for interesting case studies and psychological evaluations. This may be the hand psychologist need to work on school shootings and suicides.
This should be interesting.

[peoplessi]

http://www.deletedyoutube.ftvteen.com/

From there you can view the killers two videos from youtube. Video id's:
gSuoQSsY1D8 and FErcNl3Tjh0

[peoplessi]

Now it seems that the gunman indeed shot himself, but he didn't die. He is in critical state in Töölö-hospital.

[jimbob]

this kind of news always saddens me and makes me think that there really is no hope for mankind :(

a chemistry student? lucky he did not craft a bomb or something even more deadly.

[Shadow Master]

Oh noes, part of my development team is from there. I hope they are okay.

[Tetsuro]

this kind of news always saddens me and makes me think that there really is no hope for mankind :(
The shooter thought there was no hope for mankind, either.

[Water12356]

Sad :( We need less crazy people in this world

[Roger]

This is sickening and saddening all at once. :(

[peoplessi]

It is now confirmed that 8 people were killed by the gunman. The gunman shot himself in the head, but didn't die. Gunman is being treated in Töölö-hospital - in critical state with no hope of recovery.

jimbob: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petri_Gerdt this happened in 2002. He indeed did craft a bomb and killing 6 people and himself.

[peoplessi]

Yeah, I was just wondering how the math studies differ country to country. I am not a huge math fan either.

The shooter had a permit for his gun, those aren't easy to get. One must apply it from the head of police in ones state - also, to get a permit you need a proof of need, as in hobby and that you belong to a club. He fullfilled all these rules and got the weapon from local dealer.

[Bludd]

This is messed up. I hope he lives so he can face the consequences.

[Nacho]

On a similar note, last week a 12-year old brought a gun to my little sisters school. I got a letter stating that he was caught twice before with a weapon threatening students. On the third, and latest, occasion he brought a loaded handgun. He did not get a chance to use it however and was arrested.

Recently I found out he may get a 20 day suspension (maximum here). That, angered me. When I was in school i was suspended for 20 days for getting in a class room fight. The fact that he could bring a gun to school and get almost nothing and then be able to return pisses me off like you can't believe. If he returns we will probably take my sister out of the school, which is dissapointing because it's a french immersion school.

[peoplessi]

Mustan Kuun Lapset - Morfiinisiivet (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=pThZtPZLnJI)

[Sang]

From there you can view the killers two videos from youtube. Video id's:
gSuoQSsY1D8 and FErcNl3Tjh0

I... got something else. Something a lot more sexy than school shooting.

[Needle]

Games or another stupid scapegoat being brought up in order to avoid having to discuss real and uncomfortable social issues in three... two... one...

[Sang]

Well hey, this is Finland we're talking about. People actually have brains there ;)

[Mr.Fibbles]

Failed suicides are chances for psychologist to figure out why a person would kill themselves and what is actually going through their head when they pull the trigger (besides the bullet).

I hope he lives, but unlike Bludd, I think he needs to be examined psychologically. Then they can worry about punishment, but first they ought to figure out why he did what he did.

These stories are happening all too frequently lately. . .

[Bludd]

Failed suicides are chances for psychologist to figure out why a person would kill themselves and what is actually going through their head when they pull the trigger (besides the bullet).

I hope he lives, but unlike Bludd, I think he needs to be examined psychologically. Then they can worry about punishment, but first they ought to figure out why he did what he did.

These stories are happening all too frequently lately. . .

What I meant is that I want him to live so he'll see the results of what he's done. I want him to realize what pain he's caused other people so he'll see that the world doesn't revolve around him. Those are the real consequences.

Edit: Norwegian online newspapers are reporting that the shooter has died.

[Tetsuro]

He's dead, Jim.

[peoplessi]

Yes, the gunman died.

They haven't yet brought up games, movies, music as the reason - yet. There was one really smart woman psychologist that spoke on the TV, she mainly said that in somepoint the killer had plead for help(in his life), that call was not answered and the situation got out of control inside him. The timeframe might have been years or more, so it isn't something that came out of the blue.


The gunman didn't obviously think all the pain he would cause to his own family, and the victims and their families and close friends.

http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/11/07/a-deadly-school-shooting-this-time-in-finland/
NY Times put it quite well:

Stunned and grieving, some Europeans have taken to re-examining their societies, fretting that they have lost the communal warmth that once prevailed outside large cities.

Instead, they fear they are leaving their frailest citizens feeling isolated in an indifferent, money-driven marketplace, which is widely described as an American pathology spreading with globalization.

[Superczar]

which is widely described as an American pathology spreading with globalization.

Yeah blame us... :rolleyes:

I kind of wish the rest of the world would stop for a minute and realize that 99% of the bullshit going on here is caused by a small minority. Just about any small American town has the same sense of "community" as any European town... And it just goes to prove that every country has problems; hell mass murderers, serial killers, etc. have their roots elsewhere than America, but you'd think it started here!

[Decker]

The killer, in true modern style, left behind a lot of material about his planned attack and the ideas he was harbouring. A Youtube profile, a zip-file containing a bunch of photos and documents and so forth.

Rather than quote or link anything here, I'll just say a chapter from his manifesto was almost directly quoted from the movie Air Force One. "...On that glorious day of liberation you will know what I want". *sigh* The rest was a general mix of national socialist propaganda and more general, extreme anti-humanity notions. Padded with claims of his superior intelligence and awareness.

[peoplessi]

Yeah blame us... :rolleyes:

I kind of wish the rest of the world would stop for a minute and realize that 99% of the bullshit going on here is caused by a small minority. Just about any small American town has the same sense of "community" as any European town... And it just goes to prove that every country has problems; hell mass murderers, serial killers, etc. have their roots elsewhere than America, but you'd think it started here!

I don't blame US, and no one has claimed such things here in Finland, it was what they wrote on NY Times article. I personally believe it is more to do with the modern societes, which demand demand demand - for the most fragile ones such might just be enough to tilt the scale. Person might be so outgoing and open in life, but when everything builds upon you, and then when you most need help you don't get it.

People in Finland are honest, but usually don't really speak of anything they are feeling. Some of it is due WWII which left pretty big scars to grandparents and parents of today. Somehow I feel that people are really blind to what is happening around them.

[peoplessi]

The killer, in true modern style, left behind a lot of material about his planned attack and the ideas he was harbouring. A Youtube profile, a zip-file containing a bunch of photos and documents and so forth.

Rather than quote or link anything here, I'll just say a chapter from his manifesto was almost directly quoted from the movie Air Force One. "...On that glorious day of liberation you will know what I want". *sigh* The rest was a general mix of national socialist propaganda and more general, extreme anti-humanity notions. Padded with claims of his superior intelligence and awareness.

Yeah, mostly darwinism, naturalselection. Now later it's been found that he posted under numerous aliases - most of that stuff is even more disturbing. And no one noticed. How in the hell is that possible not to notice when guy obviously has lost empathy and reason in life.

[Superczar]

Uh sorry peoplessi, that wasn't directed at you man, rather the article you quoted from. :doh:

[Nessus]

What a tragedy. I wish these guys would show real courage and just off themselves without hurting innocent people.

Anyone got a link the manifesto?

[Destroyer]

wow this is horrible. and now Jack tompson has something else to complain about.

[Tetsuro]

Yeah, mostly darwinism, naturalselection. Now later it's been found that he posted under numerous aliases - most of that stuff is even more disturbing. And no one noticed. How in the hell is that possible not to notice when guy obviously has lost empathy and reason in life.
And, in an ironic touch, he decided to act against his own beliefs by removing his supposedly superior self from the gene pool.

[wayskobfssae]

Only in Ameri... oh.. wait...

[Synti]

Well hey, this is Finland we're talking about. People actually have brains there ;)

Heh, I wish.

We're all just as ignorant brats as everyone else. The media hasn't directly blamed movies or videogames for what he did, but they have been clearly mentioned. And in several public forums a lot of people, especially the older folk, are blaming ALL kinds of things. Ranging from the "satanic" culture that "rules" us these days to the class-free high-school system of finland.

I think the biggest thing is that in here you really can't talk about your feelings. And if you do, no one probably listens to you. Also the system demands a lot from the kids. Pass faster through schools, stop wasting our tax-money by going on on your own pace! Get to work! More taxes! More money! Aren't you patriotic? Remember the veterans!

Because even though we don't have school shootings, school stabbings are quote common :p And this wasn't the first school shooting either. The suicide ratings are through the roof, etc. Somethings got to give.

[Kev_Boy]

The gunman shot himself in the head, but didn't die.

Seeing that video of him shooting those apples, I already thought it wasn't exactly the most powerful handgun. It serves him well I suppose, critical condition from a head-shot wound seems a lot more painful than sudden death.

Though I can't say he doesn't have a point, he just doesn't look at things from all angles "I, as a natural selector, will eliminate all who I see unfit, disgraces of human race and failures of natural selection."

The problem is who's to call what "unfit" or "a failure" it's never that clear cut. Someone could be fat but have a brilliant mind, is he a failure? Of course, the vice-versa applies there to.

[Sang]

Though I can't say he doesn't have a point

Really? Then what is his point?

[Kev_Boy]

That people are no longer reliant on natural selection to survive, it's all about whether you've got the money.

[peoplessi]

He admired darwinistic views on life. We have one filosofer here in Finland that has similar views on life too.

...on World War III (would be): "a happy occasion for the planet.... If there were a button I could press, I would sacrifice myself without hesitating, if it meant millions of people would die."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentti_Linkola

[peoplessi]

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/article2828084.ece?Submitted=true

The Times wen't ahead and had a go with the subject. Cleverly titled as "analysis". I suggest that you read the comments too.

[Mr.Fibbles]

A pupil is snubbed, is deemed a failure, and retreats into an interior world that structured by his computer, video games that tap his inner aggressions, throbbing downloaded music and a locked room.
Looks quickly for Wacko Jacko
Kids as young as 6 take mobiles to school; a child’s first text message is a matter of parental pride. None of this is unusual for modern Europe, but in Finland the high-tech world has become a normal, rather than an exceptional, substitute for the world of human contact.
A very big problem. . . Not just in Europe, but everywhere. Anywhere where communication is limited to text or limited at all, there will be problems in relationships.

“I am a cynical existentialist, antihuman humanist, antisocial socialdarwinist, realistic idealist and godlike atheist. I, as a natural selector, will eliminate all who I see unfit, disgraces of human race and failures of natural selection. You might ask yourselves, why did I do this. Well, most of you are too arrogant and closed-minded to understand. I am ready to die for a cause I know is right, just and true. This is my war, my ideas and my plans. Don’t blame my parents or my friends. I told nobody about my plans and I always kept them inside my mind only. Don’t blame the movies I see, the music I hear, the games I play or the books I read. No, they had nothing to do with this. This is my war: one man war against humanity, governments and weak-minded masses of the world! HUMANITY IS OVERRATED! It’s time to put SURVIVAL OF THE FITTEST back on tracks!"
At least he covers all his bases. He tells us not to blame anyone but him. He is honest about himself, that he is crazy.

[peoplessi]

He didn't have any facts behind his "analysis", only stereotyping a nation based on his own thoughts. Referring to the Times Online article.

[Synti]

He didn't have any facts behind his "analysis", only stereotyping a nation based on his own thoughts. Referring to the Times Online article.

Yet it's pretty darn accurate if you ask me.

[peoplessi]

Porcupine Tree - Fear Of A Blank Planet (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=sUnAxegUJu0)

[C2S]

(1) So, was the pinnacle of his godlike superiority the ability to copy+paste a dialogue from a foreign movie?
(2) Apparently, the "worst scum of human race" seems to be high school students and personnel - eh?
(3) Survival of the fittest, using a gun against the unarmed, though. Should try a military complex the next time... ah yes, there'll be no "next time" for him anymore. Where's the "survival"?
(4) Might also point out something about a person so strong and superior getting bullied at school and suffering from depression.

Ah well, enough cheap shots from me for this day.