Why did men steal more then women?

[suncrafter]

A sociological experiment was conducted in Illinois called the "Wallet Test". You can read about it at http://www.wallettest.com/

The researchers deliberately dropped 100 identical wallets (containing money and ID) in public places to test honesty.

The test results were broken down by age, gender and race ----> http://www.wallettest.com/Lost_Wallet_Test/Results_Page.html


http://www.wallettest.com/Lost_Wallet_Test/Results_Page/IMAG003.JPG


What I'd like to know is why did men steal over twice as much as women?

:doh:

[Detharin]

The photo in the wallet was of an attractive man.

[Phait]

I'm sorry I laughed where they compared the white people to black people, and the black people were twice as guilty. I wouldn't have compared any race in the test. At the least add every other race that was in the experiment *if* applicable?

[peoplessi]

Social backgrounds have more greater affect on the results than the skincolor.

[Nessus]

Testosterone, genetics. Men also commit most of the crime and most acts of violence.

[Kalki]

To afford being with the women... ?

[Llama Gibbz]

I'm curious who's more prone to kleptomania?
Whenever i think of kleptomaniac,i picture a woman.
But that could be the media fault.

http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/8436/winonarydyq6.jpg

[Mr.Fibbles]

These things are not entirely fool proof. There are bugs in the system and they ignore those. Culture, where you are from, where you are, who you are with, all these things affect how you act.

Of course you can't say these people are racist (or sexist or whatever) because they will be like "I am only showing the results" but in reality because they even compared the groups, they are racist. In a perhaps not so closed experiment, women stole less than men, people of a certain race stole more than another. So what, what does that show? nothing.

[Destroyer]

why did they only test blacks and whites, theres other races you know

[thefly]

why did they only test blacks and whites, theres other races you know

Yeah, but other races don't polarize each other as much. So, they're boring. ;):doh:

[Zztx]

I'm curious who's more prone to kleptomania?
Whenever i think of kleptomaniac,i picture a woman.
But that could be the media fault.
http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/8436/winonarydyq6.jpg
Winona stole my heart. :love:

Enough corniness.
Did you say kleptomaniac??? (http://z.about.com/d/animatedtv/1/7/o/2/bender.jpg)

[Llama Gibbz]

Winona stole my heart. :love:

Enough corniness.
Did you say kleptomaniac??? (http://z.about.com/d/animatedtv/1/7/o/2/bender.jpg)

yep.. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winona_Ryder#2001_shoplifting_incident)

[wayskobfssae]

I'm curious who's more prone to kleptomania?
Whenever i think of kleptomaniac,i picture a woman.
But that could be the media fault.

IMO I think men are more of the "Finders Keepers" kind of people, which is what this is. Women will more commonly think "I don't know where that's been" when it comes to filching a previously owned item that's been laying in a puddle on the street. In a department store it'd be a whole different ballgame. I see those stats being very different if you were to see who steals more often from the shops at the mall. Of course there'd be no way to effectively test that though.

[Dave-ros]

No, Winona wasn't a thief -- you're only a thief if you're stealing to feed a starving family/drug habit, not if you're researching a role :p

[Scotty]

Testosterone, genetics. Men also commit most of the crime and most acts of violence.

There was a letter in Playboy years ago that suggested that men should pay 90% of the taxes, as we're responsible for most of the crime and all of the wars... :eek:

[Dave-ros]

<sexism>And our wives would STILL want to borrow money so they could go clothes shopping!</sexism>

[tony]

why did they only test blacks and whites, theres other races you know

The test was done by seeing who picked up the wallet, they did not specifically pick people to test. It was also a sample size of only 100.

[BillyD]

I'm sorry I laughed where they compared the white people to black people, and the black people were twice as guilty. I wouldn't have compared any race in the test. At the least add every other race that was in the experiment *if* applicable?
A little reading would help, maybe?

Of the 100 people tested -
77 were white and
23 were black:

So they did include all applicable races to the test.

Of course you can't say these people are racist (or sexist or whatever) because they will be like "I am only showing the results" but in reality because they even compared the groups, they are racist. In a perhaps not so closed experiment, women stole less than men, people of a certain race stole more than another. So what, what does that show? nothing.

How is it racist when they aren't inferring or deriving anything from the test data, i.e. they aren't saying black people are more likely to be dishonest? They don't state any conclusion and even explicitly say that their test was NOT designed with making any groups look bad. At the very worst this test wouldn't change anybody's mind. It would only serve to affirm racist beliefs that some people may already have, but it's not going to make more people believe that blacks are more likely to steal than whites. It's not their responsibility how their data will be used by others - people eventually would have made the comparison anyways.

[IHerman]

There was a letter in Playboy years ago that suggested that men should pay 90% of the taxes, as we're responsible for most of the crime and all of the wars... :eek:Yeah, but out wives and girlfriends make us do it.

[hellchicken]

What I'd like to know is why did men steal over twice as much as women?

:doh:

On a similar note, here's a question:

Why is it at night colder than outside?

:p

[Mblackwell]

The thing I noticed is that the testing pool doesn't appear to be the same quantities of people, which kind of invalidates the test.

[Jiminator]

i take issue with the basis of the test. finding a wallet is not the same as stealing one, nor is it necessarily an accurate judge of character. you would prefer that people choose certain actions afterwards but there is no inherent obligation.

[DeeperThought]

The thing I noticed is that the testing pool doesn't appear to be the same quantities of people, which kind of invalidates the test.

Of the 100 people tested -
51 were female and
49 were male:

That's pretty close, not enough of a difference to invalidate the experiment. Of course, the sample is small and we don't know how they were selected.

There's a number of interesting results that haven't been discussed -- for example, age makes a huge difference (younger people being less honest).

People don't like this because it reinforces stereotypes. I say, do a larger more scientific study and see what happens. If stereotypes have some truth to them, then so be it.

[Scream]

i take issue with the basis of the test. finding a wallet is not the same as stealing one, nor is it necessarily an accurate judge of character. you would prefer that people choose certain actions afterwards but there is no inherent obligation.

While I agree that finding a wallet is not the same as stealing one out of someone's purse, I disagree that there is no obligation here. I think there is an obligation to make some reasonable effort to return found money to it's owner. If the testers had simply baited people with a hundred dollar bill with no ID, that'd be a different story, as the effort required to hunt someone down would far exceed the worth of what you're trying to return. However, if you find a wallet with ID in it and cash, I think you're socially (although obviously not legally) obliged to try and return it. Is not doing so as bad as breaking into a person's house and stealing it, or lifting it from their pocket or purse? No, of course not, but it's still wrong.

Something happened to me tonight that reminded me of this thread. I had an appointment and before I went to it I stopped at the ATM inside my local grocery store to get some cash. An hour and a bit later I went to pay for something and realized that I'd walked away from the ATM without grabbing my money ($140). I went back to the store and asked about it and someone had turned it in and they had it for me.

Most people are honest, and I was glad of that tonight. :)

[Nessus]

That must have felt good Scream.

The NYC cops a few years back were leaving cell phones on the seat in the subway and then arresting people who picked them up when they got of the train or left the station. Their reasoning was that they stole the phone but the people arrested where saying, "How do you know I stole it, I had no chance to return it yet" Which is a valid argument, I wonder how that one ended.

[DeeperThought]

That must have felt good Scream.

The NYC cops a few years back were leaving cell phones on the seat in the subway and then arresting people who picked them up when they got of the train or left the station. Their reasoning was that they stole the phone but the people arrested where saying, "How do you know I stole it, I had no chance to return it yet" Which is a valid argument, I wonder how that one ended.

Luckily, the wallet experiment was smarter than that. On the web page is a detailed account of what happened with each wallet.

[Scream]

That must have felt good Scream.




Yup, it did. Felt a bit red-faced for being so preoccupied that I'd forget my cash like that, but that was easily offset by the joy of having it returned. :)

[suncrafter]

I'm glad you guys liked my thread. :)

[Superczar]

LOL, why bump this?

[Mikko Sandt]

Of course you can't say these people are racist (or sexist or whatever) because they will be like "I am only showing the results" but in reality because they even compared the groups, they are racist.

They are not. You can well say "African Americans commit seven times more homicides than white Americans", which is a statistical fact, without being a racist. A racist would judge an individual by the color of his skin. For example, an employer seeking to hire someone for a job that requires high intelligence would be a racist if he rejected a black applicant based on the fact that, on average, black people have lower IQ than white people do. Not only would he be a racist but also a collectivist. A non-racist employer would have no trouble acknowledging the IQ gap but he would judge the job seeker based on his individual qualities.

[Jiminator]

eh, you can bias things, for instance the statements blacks overall commit more crimes than whites and whites overall steal more money than blacks might be both true.

[Klaus Kinski]

Ppfft! What a load of bollocks! Before I'd get all worked up about black wallet stealing people and racism, I'd rather make sure I stay away from white men in suits. Chances are they are managers and we all know they (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madoff) steal the most.
:)
Honestly, I think the reason women showed to be more honest in that test is simply due to the fact (in my opinion a fact, at least) that women are stronger socially networked and more empathic than men. These are two basic factors for our conscience.

[Opus131]

Testosterone, genetics. Men also commit most of the crime and most acts of violence.

Men do most things period, whether its crime, art, science and so forth. There is a really good reason for it which you won't hear form the politically correct gestapo and their idiotic crusade to prove that the sexes are interchangeable. No such thing of course. Men and women aren't equal. Everybody with eyes and a brain can see through the bullshit fed us on a daily bases from the media.

[MentalSentinel]

All there really is in the wallet is 2 dollars and a really, really fake-looking gift certificate? (lol, wordart)

I wouldn't bother.

[Klaus Kinski]

Men and women aren't equal.
Equal in what context?
It's the context in which this word is used that counts. Nobody sane expects me to wear lingerie, you know? :)

[LadiesAndGentlemen]

Men do most things period, whether its crime, art, science and so forth. There is a really good reason for it which you won't hear form the politically correct gestapo and their idiotic crusade to prove that the sexes are interchangeable. No such thing of course. Men and women aren't equal. Everybody with eyes and a brain can see through the bullshit fed us on a daily bases from the media.

I think you've been playing too much Duke Nukem 3D.

[Mikko Sandt]

Equal in what context?

Men have a higher variance in IQ (the mean is approximately the same). This means that both high intelligence and stupidity are more frequent among men.

[Opus131]

Equal in what context?


All of them.

Men have a higher variance in IQ (the mean is approximately the same). This means that both high intelligence and stupidity are more frequent among men.

You are so off course it's not even funny.

[Nessus]

Men have a higher variance in IQ (the mean is approximately the same). This means that both high intelligence and stupidity are more frequent among men.

Very true, you've done your homework on this topic alright. Among men you will have more geniuses as well as more bums.

[Klaus Kinski]

All of them.

You, my dear friend, have been playing too much Duke Nukem for sure. Are you sure that men and women are in absolutely no context or matter equal, is that an idea you really want to follow?
Sure, there are differences. Women have tits and men...
well, they have them too but only if they're fat or taking hormones.
But biological differences aside, your notion of inequality would extent far beyond biology and psychology, it would, judged by your choice of words, go as far as denying women the same human rights men should have.
Are you by any chance a religious fundamentalists? Do you think it was a mistake to generously allow these inferior creatures to vote too? Are you anti-woman?
I suggest you flesh out your theory a bit, I loathe misunderstandings.

[Jiminator]

studies have shown that high intelligence is meaningless when it comes to success in life.

[Waiter]

What I'd like to know is why did men steal over twice as much as women?

:doh:

There's a well spread misunderstanding among cavemen that they must provide for their family.

[IwantMORE]

Women don't need to steal becuase they spend their man's money. Men need to steal because their woman spends all their money. ;)

I wonder if the wallet was a purse with a girls address on it and a girly gift certificate if it would change the results...

[Pansa]

imho this study proves nothing but
a) lazyness
b) curiosity

3 people i guess where what you would call dishonest.
those who tried to redeem the coupon.

the rest just didnt bother to make ANY effort to return a ugly-a$$ wallet with nothing in it.

one can argue about the 50$ coupon, but the numbers imho just prove that people do not value a 50$ coupon^^.

[Pansa]

There's a well spread misunderstanding among cavemen that the men must provide for their family.
fixed.

i like what chris rock said about that, that men never lower their sexual expectations and women never their financial ones ^^
(as in if she dated a guy with a car, she wont date one without anymore, and if he got a girl who did "xxy" he wont be contempt without it ^^)

[Waiter]

fixed.

And why? As "they" is refering to the men in the quote, answering the question "why did men...", there's no need to repeat the word "men". Especially not in a double post with no capital letters... :dopefish:

[Pansa]

And why? As "they" is refering to the men in the quote, answering the question "why did men...", there's no need to repeat the word "men". Especially not in a double post with no capital letters... :dopefish:
because you implied that only men think that men need to be the provider.
as oposed to mankind believing that.

i just wanted to make that believe non-genderspecific.

[wayskobfssae]

What I'd like to know is why did men steal over twice as much as women?:doh:

Theory 1: Women don't have to be opportunistic. They know they can get money whenever they want it.

Theory 2: (which may have something to do with theory 1) Men stole more.. because they're dating women.

[Waiter]

because you implied that only men think that men need to be the provider.
as oposed to mankind believing that.

i just wanted to make that believe non-genderspecific.

Sorry, I thought you were picking on grammar. But your change doesn't have that effect anyway, your change just specifies that men provide, not who thinks they should. As I see it, cavemen is just as gender neutral as neanderthal, so I never implied that only men think anything.

Anyways, grammarmongering aside, I agree with your point. It's not only men that think that men should provide.

On the other hand, I think that men are generally more likely to get criminal because a lot of them think it's a way to earn respect from other people or even themselves. You get your status and prove your value by flexing your muscles. Hence the "cavemen" reference.

It's only a guess, but I don't think that women are less likely to commit a crime than men if they are in a desperate situation.

[Pansa]

Sorry, I thought you were picking on grammar. But your change doesn't have that effect anyway, your change just specifies that men provide, not who thinks they should. As I see it, cavemen is just as gender neutral as neanderthal, so I never implied that only men think anything.

Anyways, grammarmongering aside, I agree with your point. It's not only men that think that men should provide.

On the other hand, I think that men are generally more likely to get criminal because a lot of them think it's a way to earn respect from other people or even themselves. You get your status and prove your value by flexing your muscles. Hence the "cavemen" reference.

It's only a guess, but I don't think that women are less likely to commit a crime than men if they are in a desperate situation.
see, if in your version cavemen was neutral "they" would mean both genders again ^^

thus the fix, in your version there is either the men think they need to provide, or the people think they all need to provide.

thats why "the cavemen(people) think that the men need to provide.
my only point was that its not a fictions concept thats only kept alive by men. it cant be. if only men thought they needed to suply, there would be nobody TO supply.

thats the main reason why im a bit miffed about feminism (not the "we have the right to vote " kind). equality imho would suggest that women pickup the slack where men where forced to be dominant. and imho that includes dating, paying for dating aso. but still, I have to overcome my fear of rejection, and scrunge the cash up.

living in a student subculture, i have tons of couples where both have equal money (next to none) and still the guy has to pickup some slack from his girl.

than there is this funny "our money and MY money" thing you hear about concerning wages^^.

so yes, i think men are more prone to seek different kinds of income than women do ^^

still the study is just messed up from the getgo.
i mean calling it dishonest if the 2 bucks are missing and the wallet was mailed back? i do not think so.

several other reaonings are of, too, in the age of the internet.
if he'd more carefully designed the wallet (gender versions, or androgenous wallet, more value (and/or more personal value (like real ID which costs money to regain but nets nothing to the finder) maybe he would have found something that isnt just masked slander.

as it is the wallet isnt worth returning (especialy if you looked up the voucher and found the thing to be a hoax.) and so calling it dishonest is imho not true.

[Waiter]

Sigh.

Me:
There's a well spread misunderstanding among cavemen that they must provide for their family.
You:
There's a well spread misunderstanding among cavemen that the men must provide for their family.

As my "they" is refering to the "men" in the question I answered ("why do men...?"), both our versions are exactly identical. No difference.

If you want to clarify that men and women both think that way you could write for example "... among male and female cavemen..." but that's pointless as cavemen is no gender specific word. I.e. my first version doesn't suggest that "only men" think that way in the first place. No correction needed.

http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/5127/iconblackteach1zm9.gif

[Pansa]

Sigh.

Me:
There's a well spread misunderstanding among cavemen that they must provide for their family.
You:
There's a well spread misunderstanding among cavemen that the men must provide for their family.

As my "they" is refering to the "men" in the question I answered ("why do men...?"), both our versions are exactly identical. No difference.

If you want to clarify that men and women both think that way you could write for example "... among male and female cavemen..." but that's pointless as cavemen is no gender specific word. I.e. my first version doesn't suggest that "only men" think that way in the first place. No correction needed.

http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/5127/iconblackteach1zm9.gif

edit:
oh now i get it.
the pronoun targets something not in THAT sentence but in the quote...
i was given to understand that pronouns usualy connect to the last given possible substitution (cavemen) by default.

and aditionaly "cavemen" isnt nongenderspecific by default, its by relation, cavemen CAN mean "male of said period" or "people of said period"
for example "those men behave like cavemen" doesnt mean "cavepeople" (but you could argue that this is by default because the group you where revering to was men only, but the sentence specificly usualy targets deep male reactions and not deep human behavior in general)
its the same confusion with "men" in general but is cleared up usualy by the verb "has / have" which in case of "think" just isnt there ^^ (and using mankind instead of men)


and about men being like that because men think like that. my argument here is that the fact that PEOPLE think that, makes men who DONT less succsesfull. meaning YOU can think that its cavemenish to assume that GUYS have to take the first step towards a woman, but reality still dictates it, not only because of the selfimage of said men, but directly corresponding to women thinking this as well, creating the situation of "not agreeing and being lonely (better: a higher chance of not getting any)" or agreeing and going with it.

so the major problem (imho) isnt that men think it is. its that women and OTHER men do, and men think(rightfully?) that everyone else expects them to.

[IwantMORE]

So are you saying that cavewomen are called cavemen?

p.s. language is often implied, not everyhing has to be spelt out.

[Klaus Kinski]

In mankind's history, there are several examples of man thinking there is only one kind of human worth talking about.
However, since I'm no extremist feminist, I don't think political correctness is not always a good reason to change the way we talk.