Argument With Friend Over Duke...

[Werge]

Hey, me and my friends were sending E-mails to each other about what games we have been playing recently and one of the ones I mentioned was Duke 3D, and he seems to have a huge hate for the game, so I asked him why he didn't like it. Here is our convo:

First E-mail from him:

I didn't say that the game generally sucks, I just don't like it. I don't like
it because in my opinion, the main character is a complete show-offy ****tard.
Playing as him makes me want to put down the controller/keyboard and just do
something else. Plus, the graphics are horrible dude. Not bad, but horrible.
They are good graphics considering its release date,
buuuuutttttt...............those are pathetic graphics compared to what they
have now. And everything is compared with the present. For instance, game
critics won't say, "Oh yes, this game still has good graphics just because the
graphics we re good at the time the game came out." No dude, it doesn't happen
that way. I agree that the maps are highly interactive, which is cool, and the
game has some really original weapons. But, overall, I dislike Duke 3D. Many
people share this opinion...that explains why there aren't that many people
online in Duke 3D. Although, Duke 3D is the most popular Du ke Nukem game, it
still doesn't have that many people playing it across the nation.
BECAUSE IT IS OLD!!!

Dude, I'm not commanding you to, but I'm recommending that you GET WITH THE
TIMES!!!!

Lol, jk. If you have an interest in old games, then so be it. I'm just
sticking with most people's opinions, you know, about preferring the newer
games. Not because it is the most popular opinion, but because I myself, truly
believe that newer games have better graphics, game-play, and basicall y
everything else that comes into play when talking about games. But dude, the
point is, whether you like it or not, Duke Nukem 3D is outdated....you obviously can't change that.....

My Reply:

I understand you dislike the game and I respect that opinion, but saying Duke
Nukem is un-popular is ridicolous, the game is a lot more popular than you
think, infact most game critics in the FPS genre look up to Duke Nukem as the
God, since it is much
more unique than the majority of other FPSs. It's what you call a Classic man.
It's like Super Mario Bros. in the FPS world.

Also there are usually around 50 people playing Multiplayer, I'd concider that a
decent am ount, especially since the Multiplayer App was user-created.

His Response:

Duke Nukem is unpopular dude! You don't see it on any T.V. shows, you don't see it in any magazines, none of that. They don't even make the damn games anymore. The only way to hear about Duke Nukem games is to go on the internet and search for them, which I see you've already done. What is truly ridiculous, is that you are saying that most FPS game critics look at Duke Nukem as god. If this was true, then you would hear it on G4 all the time, and see it all over gaming web sites, which never happens. Duke 3D was the first 3D FPS, but that also makes it the shittiest 3D FPS. Thats what happens in the gaming world, the games get better, and better.

50 people online is an extremely small number in terms of online gaming, even if the multiplayer of Duke 3D was user made. Just take a look at Halo 3 (as an example). There are usually around 600,000 people playing online, all day, every day. The game is not popular dude, it was popular. Critics did look at Duke 3D as a godlike game, but not anymore. Dude, your talking about the game like it is still the 90s...

Duke Nukem 3D most definitely is a Classic, but not that many people play it anymore dude. At one point, it was extremely popular though. Like I've already said, if as many people played it as you said, then they would still be selling the game, and it would be advertised often

My Response:

First of all, they still do sell the game, due to it's large fanbase and community, they even went as far as to releasing the source code ( They still retain rights to the game.) so people could create mods, skins, and apps. ( Such as the multiplayer one I use.) As for having a small multiplayer user base, the only reason the apps user base seems so small is because there are multiple apps for multiplay.

Such as:
http://forums.dukesterx.net/portal.php ( The One I use.)

http://www.vachu.com/duke3d/ ( Another Called Dukkonector.)

and there a couple others I can't remember the links to.

And the only reason Halo has "600,000 people playing online, all day, every day." Is because it's a shitty, Overrated, Overhyped CONSOLE BASED! FPS. Plus if it's using a Huge Microsoft Ran service like Xbox Live, of course it's going to have more users. I mean first of all FPSs are meant to be played on the PC with the mouse for goodaim and great customizeable keyboard. Not on a bulgey gamepad.

And your completely closed-minded track of thought here is ridicolous, "Duke 3D was the first 3D FPS, but that also makes it the shittiest 3D FPS." Quite a stupid thought if you ask me.


It also appears every one and a while on the G4 channel, not in their reviews but in a lot of their specials. Name me another classic FPS from Duke's time that still appears on TV and Magizines, and has loads of fansites, mods, and a multiplayer user base.

P.S. Really, think of it this way, lets just say Duke Numkem 3D was just released the same time as Halo 3 with this-generations graphics and other specs. Which game do you think would be the better game?

His Response:

Hey, the only places they sell the game is online, and in rare "oldies" game type stores. It is not largely manufactured anymore because of its lack of fans compared to other games.

As for multiplay, even if you combined all of those apps together, there wouldn't be anywhere close to as many users that play the more modern games online. Duke 3D has much less advertising, which is one of the many reasons for this. It has less advertising because it is an older game, and the creators don't have enough money to produce advertisements for the game. And why don't they have enough money? BECAUSE PEOPLE AREN'T PURCHASING (or playing much) THE GAME ANYMORE. I understand that there is a decent size community out there of Duke gamers, but compared to other games, Duke is still old and unpopular.


I see that you called Halo 3 "shitty". Well , if it was a shitty game, then it wouldn't have anywhere near as many people that it does that play it. Gamers, review shows, and critics alike think of Halo 3 as a simply incredible FPS. Don't blame it on being "overrated", because most critics are wise, and they know there gaming history, and they still adore Halo 3. Duke 3D is not talked about (therefor, or played) nearly as much.




Plus dude, why do you think Microsoft has more money then the creators of the Duke games? Simply because they sell more products. I understand that the Duke creators are poor, but they should still be able to send out an advertisement here and there, or else they haven't earned the right to be called, "game makers".


Why do you say that FPSs are "meant to be played" on PCs? That just isn't true, since the wisest game creators and critics disagree with that statement. Its obvious that more and more FPSs are being made for consoles, (the future of gaming), and less and less for PCs. Besides, on the best of games, you can customize your controls with the gamepad, and you can be just as accurate in shooting games with it as you can be with a mouse. You can ask any die-hard console gamer who wastes his life on certain games, such as Halo 3. (There are many losers who play Halo 3 to waste their lives away.)

Of course Duke 3D will appear in the specials on G4. That's because it's a hit game. But, it only appears on specials because it is in the past. It's old dude, and the majority of gamers prefer the newer games. Why? Because game makers aren't that stupid, to make FPSs that get shittier and shittier. The newer game creators are making FPSs that are as good as Duke 3D, and better, which is why more people play the modern games.
My track of thought for older games is most definitely not rediculous, nor is it close-minded. When I say that the first of game types are the "shittiest", I mean that they are the worst in everything except gameplay. Older games may be fun, but their predeccesors get much better as generations pass, and game makers begin to improve on games with their new releases. When I said, "shittiest", I meant that games are getting better over time because their creators are improving with each new release.
>
> As for your, "Which game do you think would be the better game?" question...
> Well, Halo 3 would still be more popular, because it would have more advertising. Plus, Halo 3 is very unique in gameplay, with a very genuine storyline, and many multiplayer features. But, Duke 3D has absolutely horrible graphics, and it doesn't have a very profound storyline, which is just one of the many reasons why it isn't very popular today. But, it is definitely a Classic game. Duke 3D was the basis of support for all other modern FPSs, which does make it unique.


________________________________

[Werge]

My latest Reply:

Look, I'm not saying it's still selling alot or it is popular among this generations gamers, because it's 10 years old. Of course it's notoriety went down majorily, thats not what I'm saying, what I was saying was that FOR IT'S AGE it's still very popular, and the company that makes it still sells it on their site, and isn't poor, 3DRealms is a major game-making company, they Made popular games like Prey, Max Payne etc.

As for Halo, first of all, it's community BASICALLY consists of 13 year-old boys where Halo is the only game they play, and punky 15 year-old teens who think saying **** over the mic a lot makes people think their "Bad". Halo wouldn't be NEARLY as popular as it is now if it's maker Bungee didn't work with Microsoft with their money and propag- err I mean Advertising Campaign, and Extra Xbox Live support. It would just be another dull Space FPS shooter and it's reviews by critics wouldn't be nearly as high.

Oh and that moves me on to something completely different, of course Halo gets high ratings and the critics "Adore" it is because the game has lots of fans (Due to ridicolous Advertising Campaign.) and they want to go along with the public and give the game good reviews. I mean think about how badly a group of critics would be "Crucified" if they gave a Halo a negative and true review. They just feed the public what it wants, for plain and simple cash.

And yes FPSs are originally meant to be played on the PC. Hell, FPSs on consoles weren't popular at all until Halo 1 came out, and now that everybody is focusing on the consoles in that genre, other game producers want to follow the trend and are releasing Console FPSs.

Dude, I respect your opinions, but simply calling a classic PC Game such as Duke 3D un-popular and saying it sucks because it's graphics are bad and it's the worst FPS ever because it's the first is just ridicolous.

And I'm waiting for his bullshit filled reply

[Western Shinobi]

I hate your friend. From what Ive read, he hates games where the character has some sort of personality....

[Commando Nukem]

This thread gives me a headache.

In the most severe brute force honesty I can offer.

Dump this bastard. Tell him to shove his opinion up his after-burner, and enjoy your Duke Nukem 3D. Oh, and never say you respect someone elses opinion when its dumb. Tell them its a dumbass opinion, and their dumbasses for having it. The hell with respect. The man has no clue about quality over quanity. Y'know there were a lot of people in the SS, does that mean it was not a shitty ass thing? Not that im comparing the Nazi SS to microsoft... Oh no. I just mean to say that you can have 85 million users and still have something that is just schlock. Its addictive tripe. Halo as a series is one big rip off after another. Duke Nukem has lots of Rip offs in its series--- But thats part of the point of the series. Its not being serious when a dead doom marine is found behind a wall. Or when Duke quips like bruce campbell. Everything about Halo is STOCK and to say its GREAT is to over-rate it. Especially when you put it next to a classic like DooM, Quake or Duke Nukem. Regardless of all that, Microsoft is a brand name, there are lot of people who follow it in whatever it does. They created and then exploited their own market. They do software for PCS and thought they could conquer hardware and entertainment too. Well, from a fiscal standpoint, good job. Im not even really bashing Halo or MS to be honet. Halo is OKAY. But it is humped to high heavens by too many people. Where as classics like Duke Nukem get tossed aside by these young twerps who have half a brain.

I've heard people say that Master Chief sounds like Duke. No he doesn't! I've heard Halo is original. No its not, it takes from Aliens, SST, Ringworld, and DooM. The plot itself is general... If you can modualise something (IE: Replace all the components of a story/character/enemy roster/weapons/style/textures) and still let it flow, theres something prefabricated about it.

Now if I sound imflamatory or hateful. I am being neither. I just felt like being a little maddoxonian. whew.

I still say ya dump the bastard. Always bet on Duke.

[Werge]

This thread gives me a headache.

In the most severe brute force honesty I can offer.

Dump this bastard. Tell him to shove his opinion up his after-burner, and enjoy your Duke Nukem 3D. Oh, and never say you respect someone elses opinion when its dumb. Tell them its a dumbass opinion, and their dumbasses for having it. The hell with respect. The man has no clue about quality over quanity. Y'know there were a lot of people in the SS, does that mean it was not a shitty ass thing? Not that im comparing the Nazi SS to microsoft... Oh no. I just mean to say that you can have 85 million users and still have something that is just schlock. Its addictive tripe. Halo as a series is one big rip off after another. Duke Nukem has lots of Rip offs in its series--- But thats part of the point of the series. Its not being serious when a dead doom marine is found behind a wall. Or when Duke quips like bruce campbell. Everything about Halo is STOCK and to say its GREAT is to over-rate it. Especially when you put it next to a classic like DooM, Quake or Duke Nukem. Regardless of all that, Microsoft is a brand name, there are lot of people who follow it in whatever it does. They created and then exploited their own market. They do software for PCS and thought they could conquer hardware and entertainment too. Well, from a fiscal standpoint, good job. Im not even really bashing Halo or MS to be honet. Halo is OKAY. But it is humped to high heavens by too many people. Where as classics like Duke Nukem get tossed aside by these young twerps who have half a brain.

I've heard people say that Master Chief sounds like Duke. No he doesn't! I've heard Halo is original. No its not, it takes from Aliens, SST, Ringworld, and DooM. The plot itself is general... If you can modualise something (IE: Replace all the components of a story/character/enemy roster/weapons/style/textures) and still let it flow, theres something prefabricated about it.

Now if I sound imflamatory or hateful. I am being neither. I just felt like being a little maddoxonian. whew.

I still say ya dump the bastard. Always bet on Duke.

I completely agree about all the Halo shit, god so ******* overhyped, Halo is ok at it's very best.

[Western Shinobi]

I completely agree about all the Halo shit, god so ******* overhyped, Halo is ok at it's very best.

Agreed. I can' stand people saying its the best game ever. It lacks a lot of elements for being the best game. It has no role playing elements, it lacks adventure. Its just a straight forward shooter. It lacks originality!

[Steve]

Who cares? You like it, he doesn't.

[Commando Nukem]

Who cares? You like it, he doesn't.

It boils my blood. :D

[Werge]

It boils my blood. :D

I feel the same exact way about it.

[Nukem465]

Alot of people are going to think different when DNF comes out. Because Duke will destroy HALO!

[Commando Nukem]

Alot of people are going to think different when DNF comes out. Because Duke will destroy HALO!

I think you're understating the issue man. I mean hes DUKE NUKEM. Hes the guy who saves our chicks, I mean can Master Chief save the world all by himself? Hell no! He needs backup from his army buddies! :D

[bobthefish]

Alot of people are going to think different when DNF comes out. Because Duke will destroy HALO!

thats not a big accomplishment...
halo is destroyed by many games, seeing as it isnt that good.

[Werge]

I think you're understating the issue man. I mean hes DUKE NUKEM. Hes the guy who saves our chicks, I mean can Master Chief save the world all by himself? Hell no! He needs backup from his army buddies! :D

Haha Right on! Although I do have some doubts about DNF, some big ones. I mean it's been about a decade and we've seen nothing man. I have a feeling they will release it, but not soon.

Just my feelings.

[Commando Nukem]

Haha Right on! Although I do have some doubts about DNF, some big ones. I mean it's been about a decade and we've seen nothing man. I have a feeling they will release it, but not soon.

Just my feelings.

I think its going to give about 50 people a heart attack when they suddenly go "Heres Duke Nukem Forever, the legend... and yeah, its that damn good. You doubted us, and we just fed you your own ass on a silver plater with some spuds and beef. Take it and say "please sir i'd like some more". Thats right. 3D Realms is God, and Duke is king." lol! :D

[Werge]

lol, I just might have a heart attack when they release it! Been waiting for a long time, then again, we all have. I just hope they release it before I go into the Desperate-madness stage that some fans do! :D

[The Commander]

So he hates the graphics ect. Does he know about the HRP?

[Nukem465]

I think its going to give about 50 people a heart attack when they suddenly go "Heres Duke Nukem Forever, the legend... and yeah, its that damn good. You doubted us, and we just fed you your own ass on a silver plater with some spuds and beef. Take it and say "please sir i'd like some more". Thats right. 3D Realms is God, and Duke is king." lol! :D

Yeah, I think they're going to reveal it without any warning. That will surely give me a heart attack.

[Commando Nukem]

Yeah, I think they're going to reveal it without any warning. That will surely give me a heart attack.

Hey, I mean we're in the month of CHRISTMAS, George did say they would possibly show something this year. What better time then Christmas? :)

[Superczar]

Christ, his very first paragraph shows how much of a f-tard he is and that he is not a gamer. I didn't have to read the rest to sum him up.

[Micki!]

Small fanbase..? Poor Game Company..?

Where the on earth does he gather his facts..?

He probably has the same view for Doom... With no feel of Nostalgy at all...

I'd understand if it was something simple as "pong" or "Pacman"... But those games were limited with what you had... (move up, move down, die, gather points) While these FPS games started making history, and had great influence to pretty much any game in existence...

Saying it has shitty graphics compared to what you have today is a poor argument to use... Sure it looks bad, it's almost 12 years old...

I get the impression, that this guy did not play games when he was a little kid/as a young man (i do not know his age, so i cannot tell when he could have played them)
He seems more of a graphics whore, enjoying whtever is new, and ignoring classics...

I never tried Doom back then, but more than 13 years after it's release, i finally get to try it, and i actually like it... becaus ei realize and see, what made this game fun... and thus i enjoy it, even for it's lack of to-date graphics...

And that is certainly the case with Duke3D, which was among the first games to use Mouse support, and interactivity, innovative maps (Geometry especially, and scripted sequences, triggered when doing something certain) plus a main character with a personality... A very advanced game, and in way, ahead of it's time, without feeling off... Quake came later, with full 3D graphics and models, but it lacked alot of what Duke3D had, i do not need to mention what it lacked, it's too obvious...

[X-Vector]

I don't know what you're trying to prove here; you love Duke3D despite its age, he doesn't - what else is new?
If you have any common sense you'll acknowledge that his opinion mirrors that of 99,99% of gamers out there and that 10+ year old games only serve a niche audience.

As for the points made in your discussion, I have to say that his arguments are on the whole certainly not less correct, sensible and mature than yours.

Perhaps you should just consider yourself part of an elite group of players and call it a day, you're never going to persuade your friend to change his mind anyway.

[Mr. Crow]

Man, that dude is an *******! I hate when people spit on something they know nothing about. For example ha said they don't make games after him anymore bla bla, well have you ever heard of DNF!? Apparently not, which only means he knows apsoulutely nothing. And whay are you friend with him anyway (lol), he said "I play new games as MOST PEOPLE DO". Who ****s them! And damn, comparing a game from '96 and Halo that's less than a year old (I presume) is ridiculous! And another thing: It's been 12 years since DN3D was released, and 12 from now, will Halo be still populat like Duke is today? Is he a pen friend or what? If he is, **** him off, who needs such people in life?

[Haravikk]

Your friend sounds like he prefers graphics to gameplay. Considering how little material for DNF has been released you see an awful lot of Duke in games-magazines still, as well as the odd throw-back or quote.
Hell, that recent Halo 3 comic showing Duke as Master-Chief is proof of the effect that Duke Nukem 3D has had on gaming culture, and the Build engine frankly is one of the pioneering game-engines along-side others less widely known such as Marathon (by Bungie).

Although I'm not sure if you should be posting this on a Duke Nukem forum as you're automatically going to see some bias =)
But hell, I know a ton of people who see Duke Nukem 3D as an absolute classic and fondly remember playing it, when I tell them it's been updated to run on newer OSes and mention the High-Resolution-Pack and things I get a lot of them saying they might give it another shot. Sure, the graphics by today's standards are crap, but they're good enough to get the message across and the gameplay still kicks ASS. I recently played Resistance: Fall of Man, which I think is pretty cool game, though a bit short considering I only play an hour or so now and then. But after recently getting right back into playing through Duke Nukem 3D (in classic graphics since EDuke/JFDuke aren't Mac compatible yet) I have to say I'm enjoying it a lot more. So in my (gamer's) opinion; you get graphical cool, and then you get gameplay cool. Duke is gameplay cool.

[Daedolon]

Oh and that moves me on to something completely different, of course Halo gets high ratings and the critics "Adore" it is because the game has lots of fans (Due to ridicolous Advertising Campaign.) and they want to go along with the public and give the game good reviews. I mean think about how badly a group of critics would be "Crucified" if they gave a Halo a negative and true review. They just feed the public what it wants, for plain and simple cash.

That reminds me of EIDOS with Kane & Lynch. Didn't EIDOS take actions against GameSpot because they published a negative review about the game and forced GameSpot to sack the reviewer and also told that they wouldn't do any advertising with GameSpot if the review wasn't deleted?

It's been like this for a few years, money says which games "mass gamers" should play. It's sad how much there are people who play whatever the media says "rocks" without seemingly having their own opinions and can't look behind the curtain for the more unique and innovative games. This is why games like Halo 3 get advertised as the best game ever made and such.

Sure, I like Halo 3 but that's about it. It's fun in COOP but really just an "okay game" in SP.

Didn't Duke Nukem 3D revolutionize COOP in the first place?

Someone make a Halo 3 TC with BUILD and make the guy play it. I'd like to hear his comments on it :D

[Sang]

I'm not saying this to act like a troll but...

tl;dr


By this I mean people's opinions about Duke3D are irrelevant. If you like to play it then just play it and don't worry about the people who hate it.

[Commando Nukem]

I'm not saying this to act like a troll but...

tl;dr


By this I mean people's opinions about Duke3D are irrelevant. If you like to play it then just play it and don't worry about the people who hate it.

Discussion in a general sense is never irrelevant.

[Werge]

I don't know what you're trying to prove here; you love Duke3D despite its age, he doesn't - what else is new?
If you have any common sense you'll acknowledge that his opinion mirrors that of 99,99% of gamers out there and that 10+ year old games only serve a niche audience.

As for the points made in your discussion, I have to say that his arguments are on the whole certainly not less correct, sensible and mature than yours.

Perhaps you should just consider yourself part of an elite group of players and call it a day, you're never going to persuade your friend to change his mind anyway.

I'm not really trying to prove anything, it just really annoys me when "gamers" as they call themselves, think the way he does. I just wanted to share this with people, that is all.

Daedolon-"That reminds me of EIDOS with Kane & Lynch. Didn't EIDOS take actions against GameSpot because they published a negative review about the game and forced GameSpot to sack the reviewer and also told that they wouldn't do any advertising with GameSpot if the review wasn't deleted?

It's been like this for a few years, money says which games "mass gamers" should play. It's sad how much there are people who play whatever the media says "rocks" without seemingly having their own opinions and can't look behind the curtain for the more unique and innovative games. This is why games like Halo 3 get advertised as the best game ever made and such.

Sure, I like Halo 3 but that's about it. It's fun in COOP but really just an "okay game" in SP.

Didn't Duke Nukem 3D revolutionize COOP in the first place?

Someone make a Halo 3 TC with BUILD and make the guy play it. I'd like to hear his comments on it"-Daedolon

I know man, game reviews are so shit these days.

[DeeperThought]

Werge -- try the multiquote feature next time.

Your friend actually makes some good points, by the way. But the bottom line is this: if you want modern graphics, then you don't want to play Duke 3D (not even with the HRP). Gameplay is another matter: the gameplay of Duke 3D is great to begin with (even by modern standards) and it can be changed to emulate modern games with modifications. But if someone insists on modern graphics, then you will never get him to play Duke 3D so don't bother trying.

[Sang]

Discussion in a general sense is never irrelevant.

It is when you're typing entire novels worth of text rather than witty one-liners! ;) becuz nobody ever reads novels amirite:dopefish:

[ZuljinRaynor]

I don't want to hijack, but I'll name a game that looks like crap but plays better than any of its clones; X-Com. 1993, still no one has done it right since then.

[MrBlackCat]

The friend seems immature and lazy. He doesn’t know the facts of what he is arguing. Arguing things you don’t know the facts about should be left to politicians. :) Anyway, lots of errors in his facts and gross inaccuracies. He doesn’t seem very skilled at making the separation or distinction of what is opinion and what is fact. Opinions are neither correct nor incorrect, whether irrational or not, but facts can be right or wrong, with varying degrees of accuracy.
I agree that trying to change someone’s mind is generally pointless though. You might just tell him that he is inaccurate and if he is too lazy to check it out for himself, not much you can do to help him.
Ignorance is proportional to argumentative types... in my opinion. :)

MrBlackCat

[Dopefish7590]

um, wow guys. dude this guy is his friend, he has an opinion. even though it may be kind of obnoxious, you really shouldent call someone a ****tard for it, really. try to avoid the topic of classics, someo people simply dont like them. i have a few friends like that. =\

even if he were to try it himself and like it doesnt mean you have to force-feed him the stuff when he doesnt have your opinion, really.

[Werge]

um, wow guys. dude this guy is his friend, he has an opinion. even though it may be kind of obnoxious, you really shouldent call someone a ****tard for it, really. try to avoid the topic of classics, someo people simply dont like them. i have a few friends like that. =\

even if he were to try it himself and like it doesnt mean you have to force-feed him the stuff when he doesnt have your opinion, really.

Agreed but he started the whole convo by saying how much Duke 3D sucks and he was being quite obnoxious about it.

But he's not a bad guy, just felt like posting this for other people to have there opinons on our little debate. Not to flame him.

[Steve]

Yeah but he is that kinda guy where his opinion is "always right" and everybody elses is incorrect and foolish If you know what I mean.

Oh, you mean a wanker? ;)

[Werge]

Oh, you mean a wanker? ;)

lol, I guess you could say that. He's just a smartass about a lot of stuff.

Gets a little annoying after awhile, though this was more of a debate than an argument. I didn't intend on making it look like we were fighting.

[Western Shinobi]

lol, I guess you could say that. He's just a smartass about a lot of stuff.

Gets a little annoying after awhile, though this was more of a debate than an argument. I didn't intend on making it look like we were fighting.

Whats the different between an argument and fighting nowadays?

[Commando Nukem]

Whats the different between an argument and fighting nowadays?

none what so ever.

[Werge]

Whats the different between an argument and fighting nowadays?

I said it was more of a debate than an argument. Hmm, maybe "Heated Debate" would be a good term to classify our conversation. Heh

[Western Shinobi]

I said it was more of a debate than an argument. Hmm, maybe "Heated Debate" would be a good term to classify our conversation. Heh

Id stay clear of any Heated Debate. These things take at least 10 years of your life span.

[madhatter man]

Alot of people are going to think different when DNF comes out. Because Duke will destroy HALO!

Will is sell more than $7 million dollars worth of copies in its first opening day?

[Nukem465]

[QUOTE=madhatter man;623407]Will is sell more than $7 million dollars worth of copies in its first opening day?[/QUOTE


I'd say it will. They will have to advertise so that everyone knows Duke is returning.

[madhatter man]

"Overrated, Overhyped CONSOLE BASED!" I like it when people have no real responce beside fanboy generated opinions.

[Sprite Eater]

Hey, me and my friends were sending E-mails to each other about what games we have been playing recently and one of the ones I mentioned was Duke 3D, and he seems to have a huge hate for the game, so I asked him why he didn't like it. Here is our convo:

First E-mail from him:

I didn't say that the game generally sucks, I just don't like it. I don't like
it because in my opinion, the main character is a complete show-offy ****tard. [Thats the intended effect.]
Playing as him makes me want to put down the controller/keyboard and just do
something else. Plus, the graphics are horrible dude. Not bad, but horrible.
They are good graphics considering its release date,
buuuuutttttt...............those are pathetic graphics compared to what they
have now. And everything is compared with the present. For instance, game
critics won't say, "Oh yes, this game still has good graphics just because the
graphics we re good at the time the game came out." No dude, it doesn't happen
that way. I agree that the maps are highly interactive, which is cool, and the
game has some really original weapons. But, overall, I dislike Duke 3D. Many
people share this opinion...that explains why there aren't that many people
online in Duke 3D. Although, Duke 3D is the most popular Du ke Nukem game, it
still doesn't have that many people playing it across the nation.
BECAUSE IT IS OLD!!!

Dude, I'm not commanding you to, but I'm recommending that you GET WITH THE
TIMES!!!!

Lol, jk. If you have an interest in old games, then so be it. I'm just
sticking with most people's opinions, you know, about preferring the newer
games. Not because it is the most popular opinion, but because I myself, truly
believe that newer games have better graphics, game-play, and basicall y
everything else that comes into play when talking about games. But dude, the
point is, whether you like it or not, Duke Nukem 3D is outdated....you obviously can't change that.....[Not for long.]
My Reply:

I understand you dislike the game and I respect that opinion, but saying Duke
Nukem is un-popular is ridicolous, the game is a lot more popular than you
think, infact most game critics in the FPS genre look up to Duke Nukem as the
God, since it is much
more unique than the majority of other FPSs. It's what you call a Classic man.
It's like Super Mario Bros. in the FPS world.

Also there are usually around 50 people playing Multiplayer, I'd concider that a
decent am ount, especially since the Multiplayer App was user-created.

His Response:

Duke Nukem is unpopular dude! You don't see it on any T.V. shows, you don't see it in any magazines, none of that. They don't even make the damn games anymore. The only way to hear about Duke Nukem games is to go on the internet and search for them, which I see you've already done. What is truly ridiculous, is that you are saying that most FPS game critics look at Duke Nukem as god. If this was true, then you would hear it on G4 all the time, and see it all over gaming web sites, which never happens. Duke 3D was the first 3D FPS, but that also makes it the shittiest 3D FPS. Thats what happens in the gaming world, the games get better, and better.

50 people online is an extremely small number in terms of online gaming, even if the multiplayer of Duke 3D was user made. Just take a look at Halo 3 (as an example). There are usually around 600,000 people playing online, all day, every day. The game is not popular dude, it was popular. Critics did look at Duke 3D as a godlike game, but not anymore. Dude, your talking about the game like it is still the 90s...[Comparing a game released 11 years ago to one released 2 months ago is rediculous. TEN might of had that many subscribers at one point or another.]

Duke Nukem 3D most definitely is a Classic, but not that many people play it anymore dude. At one point, it was extremely popular though. Like I've already said, if as many people played it as you said, then they would still be selling the game, and it would be advertised often.[Ever hear of a youtube advertisement? Not in North America, not on PURPOSE.But its still immensly popular.]

My Response:

First of all, they still do sell the game, due to it's large fanbase and community, they even went as far as to releasing the source code ( They still retain rights to the game.) so people could create mods, skins, and apps. ( Such as the multiplayer one I use.) As for having a small multiplayer user base, the only reason the apps user base seems so small is because there are multiple apps for multiplay.

And the only reason Halo has "600,000 people playing online, all day, every day." Is because it's a shitty, Overrated, Overhyped CONSOLE BASED! FPS. Plus if it's using a Huge Microsoft Ran service like Xbox Live, of course it's going to have more users. I mean first of all FPSs are meant to be played on the PC with the mouse for goodaim and great customizeable keyboard. Not on a bulgey gamepad. [Thats the result of ALOT of money changing hands, and the ability to do so.]

And your completely closed-minded track of thought here is ridicolous, "Duke 3D was the first 3D FPS, but that also makes it the shittiest 3D FPS." [Quite a stupid thought if you ask me.]


It also appears every one and a while on the G4 channel, not in their reviews but in a lot of their specials. Name me another classic FPS from Duke's time that still appears on TV and Magizines, and has loads of fansites, mods, and a multiplayer user base. [PC GAMER makes alot of references to it, even comparing far cry to Duke.]

His Response:

As for multiplay, even if you combined all of those apps together, there wouldn't be anywhere close to as many users that play the more modern games online. Duke 3D has much less advertising, which is one of the many reasons for this. It has less advertising because it is an older game, and the creators don't have enough money to produce advertisements for the game. And why don't they have enough money? BECAUSE PEOPLE AREN'T PURCHASING (or playing much) THE GAME ANYMORE. I understand that there is a decent size community out there of Duke gamers, but compared to other games, Duke is still old and unpopular.[And the fact its 11 years old doesn't even make you think about that?]


I see that you called Halo 3 "shitty". Well , if it was a shitty game, then it wouldn't have anywhere near as many people that it does that play it. Gamers, review shows, and critics alike think of Halo 3 as a simply incredible FPS. Don't blame it on being "overrated", because most critics are wise, and they know there gaming history, and they still adore Halo 3. Duke 3D is not talked about (therefor, or played) nearly as much.[The halo series is overrated. The end. Its fun, but not FUN fun.]




Plus dude, why do you think Microsoft has more money then the creators of the Duke games? Simply because they sell more products. I understand that the Duke creators are poor, but they should still be able to send out an advertisement here and there, or else they haven't earned the right to be called, "game makers".[Microsoft markets 10X the variety of software and has much more money to throw around, and not just a few games, or a set budget..]


Why do you say that FPSs are "meant to be played" on PCs? That just isn't true, since the wisest game creators and critics disagree with that statement. Its obvious that more and more FPSs are being made for consoles, (the future of gaming), and less and less for PCs. Besides, on the best of games, you can customize your controls with the gamepad, and you can be just as accurate in shooting games with it as you can be with a mouse. You can ask any die-hard console gamer who wastes his life on certain games, such as Halo 3. (There are many losers who play Halo 3 to waste their lives away.)[A High end PC WILL ALWAYS BE BETTER THAN ANY CONSOLE, consoles are limited to their shipped specs. While PCs are quite better in that aspect.]
________________________________
Opinions BOLDED and [Opinion, i altered and deleted parts to shorten it.

[Sprite Eater]

Basically your friend is a console owner who thinks his XBOX will always be high end. who also watches G4 for all his BIASED review needs.

[oak man]

Damn man, this guys a dick.. But who the hell cares! The fact is you know he doesn't know what he's talkin' about. Duke Nukem is frequently in current mags and that's all that counts! It doesn't matter if something is old or not, as long as you enjoy it then it did it's job!

[Western Shinobi]

Breaking News: DNF will be released on the PS3 and 360 simaltaneously, and PC will recieve its copy a month or so after.






j/k

[madhatter man]

The only time i read a thing on Duke nukem in a magazine is for joking purposes or comparing development time.

[Sprite Eater]

Damn man, this guys a dick.. But who the hell cares! The fact is you know he doesn't know what he's talkin' about. Duke Nukem is frequently in current mags and that's all that counts! It doesn't matter if something is old or not, as long as you enjoy it then it did it's job!

True.

[vjmeht]

The fact that he trusts G4 as the end-all Gaming News Source is beyond me.

ZDNet sold out and lost a lot of good shows and people.

Whatever happened to the good ole CGW and PC Gamer days?

[KaiHanshen]

Next time, reply him with an almost exact amount of players playing Duke3D, Doom, Heretic, Hexen...ect, with modern features, AKA, Source-Ports & more featuring lovage, that time, he'll only need to prove all he said with a reply, meaning play these games with these thingies, or he'll only make a troll response
I'm sure he'll do, non-nostalgic dudes NEVER do, until they try, or give up

[rockmanekuzu8]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lnSQ0hqs1i8

Show your friend this video and then he'll understand.;)

[The Commander]

That was one of the worst Duke videos I have ever seen to who ever made that.

[Dopefish7590]

*sigh*

[Mr. Crow]

Just show him the trailer. Noone can stay indiffernet after seeing it.

[davo]

Duke Nukem is not on par with Mario in terms of popularity, but calling the game unpopular is idiotic and just plain incorrect

[oak man]

Breaking News: DNF will be released on the PS3 and 360 simaltaneously, and PC will recieve its copy a month or so after.






j/k

Damn yooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooou!!! !!:flame:

[brandonlee33]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lnSQ0hqs1i8

Show your friend this video and then he'll understand.;)

Joe didn't like it.. he voted one...