McGwire

[Superczar]

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/7652000?MSNHPHMA

Are you kidding me? 49 home runs rookie year? His HR stats are even respectable the few years after that, and then he was injured and also had a bad year; hell we'd be seeing Bonds go after his record and not Ruth's if it weren't for that. I don't know whether he took "PED's", but unlike Bonds, McGwire was BIG when he entered the majors. I can understand poeple's feelings against players nowadays (personally I used to love baseball and now I can't stand it), but I don't think it's right to single out someone like McGwire (who is a class act) for possible 'roid use, and then sit there and say Bonds (who is an A-1 whiny c*nt) "a different guy" like that's a good thing. Bonds better HR years came after he "gained some muscle and a few hat sizes"... :rolleyes:

[Mr.Fibbles]

It sucks that the Big Mac is getting no respect. He was a great guy both on and off the field. As a St. Louisan, I have great respect for the man and I wish the Hall of Fame would let him in.
If Barry Bonds get in, with all these charges of perjury and such, I will be very pissed and cannot be held accountable for my actions against the voters. It could also be said that they are racists. . .

[thefly]

If you look at McGwire's lifetime stats against other hall of famers, I can see why he wouldn't be an automatic. Add in the juicing stuff, and I really see why he might not make it. I feel worse for Pete Rose. And I don't feel bad for Pete Rose.

Yes Mark had a bunch of homers and a good number of RBI. So have tons of other guys that also had other stats to their name.

[ZuljinRaynor]

This is garbage. He should be in the HoF. He didn't get the votes. Well that sucks.

[Mr.Fibbles]

It makes sense that the fact that he didn't steal a lot of bases and his overall avg wasn't fantastic would hinder his HoF status. I'll admit, he was not the guy you would build a team around. He was a power hitter and he played first base because it is relatively easy to play as a position player. I can't remember if he ever got a Gold Glove or anything, but he was a solid player.

The thing is, the media is making it out that he is the bad guy in this whole steroids scandal. He was not named in the Mitchell Report. Now, that does not mean he never juiced or anything, but he was a big guy his entire career and he always was a respectful player. We loved him in STL and he certainly still has a lot of fans here.

The thing is, something tells me that Barry Bonds will get more votes than McGwire when it is his turn to be voted on. If that happens, I for one will be pretty upset.

Hall of Fame or not, McGwire does not deserve the negative publicity he is getting.

[Superczar]

He didn't just hit few home runs, he hit enough to put him in 8th place all-time, and I believe has the lowest HR to at-bat ratio for career. He isn't just someone who got by unnoticed...

[London_Midge]

If you look at McGwire's lifetime stats against other hall of famers, I can see why he wouldn't be an automatic. Add in the juicing stuff, and I really see why he might not make it. I feel worse for Pete Rose. And I don't feel bad for Pete Rose.

Peter Gammons has said time and time again that even more important than stats when it comes to a HoF vote (and this is Peter Gammons, who may know and love more stats than any human being on the planet) is the impact the player had on his game during his tenure, and I very strongly agree with that. Mark McGwire was one of the most important baseball players in 90's. He put people in the seats, he brought ratings back up, he made people pay attention again. People were filling up the bleachers for batting practice. He broke the single season homerun record and the entire country was riveted. For a year, he was one of the most famous people in the world, not just baseball. He was the face of baseball for a decade...how can he not be in The Hall? You can't change history. If Ronald Reagan comes back from the dead tomorrow and robs a bank it won't change what he did while he was president, it just makes him an A-hole now. The Hall is supposed to be a record of the players who had an impact on the game and their deeds, not a shrine to a bunch of great guys who never did anything wrong. Isn't Ty Cobb in The Hall? Besides being a bigot and all around jerk, he used to sharpen his spikes so fielders wouldn't keep him from stealing. Gaylord Perry? He's actually given talks on how to doctor a ball on the mound.

This isn't a buffet. You can't just pick the parts of history in baseball that you like and leave the rest. Two of the biggest records in all of sports were broken in a 10 year span, and you can't ignore the records or the players.

As an important note to the steroid allegations, McGwire's could have saved himself a lot of headaches by just admitting guilt, whether he really was or not. Look at Jason Giambi, he was caught cheating, got suspended, apologized, and was subsequently named Comeback Player of the Year. Roger Clemens gets accused and denies it, the reporters drag him through the mud; Andy Petitte gets caught and says "Yeah, sorry about that!" and the press does everything but pat him on the back and say "No worries, Andy! Go out there and get 'em!"

What no one seems to remember is that while there have been accusations leveled against McGwire since he retired, he has never admitted to wrongdoing, he has never been indicted for lying to congress, no one has come forward saying they have proof or firsthand knowledge of his use of PEDs (Other than Jose Canseco, and frankly, whether right or wrong in this case, Jose Canseco has been very insane for a very long time, so I'm going to need a secondary source on that) yet the writers are acting like he's been convicted in a court of law (he wasn't even named in The Mitchell Report).

I can understand the BBWAA being apprehensive when Clemens comes up for induction, or Bonds, or Palmiero, or even Pettite. They've all been at least been formally accused by reputable sources. McGwire hasn't, yet somehow he's been convicted anyway. "I am not here to talk about the past" does not mean "I am guilty of using steroids." Is it a stupid ****ing thing to say? Well, yeah. But it's not an admission of anything. It certainly could mean he did steroids, sure; it could also mean he pulled a Pettite in '01 when his back was shot and tried HGH twice to get back on the field, never actually played a single game or hit a homerun as an enhanced player, but still didn't want to lie to Congress. It could mean he knew Sammy was hopped up on cat tranquilizers and didn't want to see his friend run through the ringer; it could mean he didn't see the point in discussing who did what as long they were making efforts to keep it from happening again. And yes, it could also mean he was seriously into PEDs and would have been done playing much earlier if he handn't had them. But no one knows that but him. Who knows what he was thinking when he kept saying that line over and over again? The thing that sticks out to me is that he is not a stupid man, he was always well spoken and articulate, and he understood not just the game, but after his run in '98, he knew how to interact with the media very well. It stands to reason that the man knew all he had to say was "I did not do steroids," even if he had, and his place in The Hall likely would have been saved, if a little tarnished. But he wouldn't do it. STILL won't do it. It's one of those things I am going to wonder about for a very long time.

Beyond all of that, the fact is, the man changed the face of the game. Right or wrong or whatever baggage me might be carrying, he deserves to be in the hall simply because he was one of the most important players of his generation. That's why the hall exists. If they don't put him in, they might as well close the doors and call it a sport.

[thefly]

Well, as long as sports journalists are the ones voting, I don't see McGwire or Palmiero getting in anytime soon. Do they deserve it? Sure, but journalists just love that power over people. Pete Rose should be in by my count.

The Mitchell Report was a big scam, a big load of hearsay information. I don't think very many people care about the steroid issue outside of EPSN, SI, ect. but they want to make it like the biggest scandal ever in sports. I think fans will just shrug this off. I know it doesn't matter to me. Seems like the old media practice of building someone up as a hero than enjoying eating their hearts for breakfast a few years down the line.

It also pisses me off seeing baseball players bought up before Congress. Holy ****! The hell do they need to be involved?

[Wamplet]

It also pisses me off seeing baseball players bought up before Congress. Holy ****! The hell do they need to be involved?

It's possibly the only thing they can remotely tackle and solve. :o

[Hudson]

Yeah, they sure solved it with Bonds :p

[Wamplet]

I can see Bonds and Clemens riding around in a golf cart searching for the real steroid users. :D

It's a part of their "no baseball player left behind" plan. :o

[Superczar]

Snubbed for a 3rd year. I bet Bonds doesn't get snubbed - and that f***in pisses me off.

Nice to see Henderson made it his first year, and that Rice finally got in.

[thefly]

Looks like Big Mac's votes decreased from last year.

[Drazula]

Amazing what short term memories the baseball writer's have. In 1998, baseball was waning in popularity. The McGwire-Sossa home run race saved baseball.

McGwire gets in just for that. I can see Clemens and Bonds not getting in. They are both A$$hats.