Wal-Mart ends test run for Linux-based computers

[ShadeEX]

Wal-Mart ends test run for Linux-based computers in stores: not what customers sought

March 11, 2008 - 8:55AM

Computers that run the Linux operating system instead of Microsoft Corp.'s Windows didn't attract enough attention from Wal-Mart customers, and the chain has stopped selling them in stores, a spokeswoman said Monday.

"This really wasn't what our customers were looking for," said Wal-Mart Stores Inc. spokeswoman Melissa O'Brien.

To test demand for systems with the open-source operating system, Wal-Mart stocked the $199 "Green gPC," made by Everex of Taiwan, in about 600 stores starting late in October.

Walmart.com, the chain's e-commerce site, had sold Linux-based computers before and will continue selling the gPC.

This was the first time they appeared on retail shelves.

Paul Kim, brand manager for Everex, said selling the gPC online was "significantly more effective" than selling it in stores.

Wal-Mart sold out the in-store gPC inventory but decided not to restock, O'Brien said. The company does not reveal sales figures for individual items.

Walmart.com now carries an updated version, the gPC2, also for $199, without a monitor. The site also sells a tiny Linux-driven laptop, the Everex CloudBook, for $399.

Linux software is maintained and developed by individuals and companies around the world on an "open source" basis, meaning that everyone has access to the software's blueprints and can modify them.

There is no licensing fee for Linux, which helps keeps the cost of the Everex PC low. Manufacturers have to pay Microsoft to sell computers with Windows preloaded.

Linux is in widespread use in server computers, but it hasn't made a dent in the desktop market. Surveys usually put its share of that market around 1 percent, far behind Windows and Apple Inc.'s OS X.

Smaller laptops like the CloudBook could provide an entree for Linux, since it runs well on systems with modest memory and hard drive capacity.

Aparrently Linux based PC's haven't sold well in Wal-Mart.. More people buy Windows and Mac's apperently..

What are your thoughts..

[ZuljinRaynor]

I didn't know Walmart was even doing something like this. :o

Not surprised though. Linux is not for the average consumer.

[Scotty]

Given that there wasn't enough of a profit in bricks-and-mortar computer stores to keep CompUSA afloat, it's not a surprise that Wal-Mart (or anyone else, for that matter) would drop an item aimed at such a small sector of the computing market.

At least they gave it a shot, and they're still selling those computers via walmart.com.

[Yenji]

Just goes to show that there is more work to be done before your average user is willing to buy a machine running Linux. Mabye one day, but not today

[Dopefish7590]

Maybe they might have sold more if they had Fedora 8 with the cube desktop and wobbly windows enabled. Plain ol' Ubuntu does not look great compared to Vista or Leapord on the default theme.

[Wamplet]

Not surprised though. Linux is not for the average consumer.

Same comment.

Also, one thing that may have really thrown them off was not seeing AMD or Intel as the processor.

The website shows it having the Via C7-D and it is proudly displayed on the case. :o

I haven't really paid much attention to their processors in over a year, but I think having a well-known processor would help selling it.

Lastly, the GUI/OS is going to be a deal breaker as well.

People have a hard enough time transtitioning from 98 to XP, to Vista now, Mac's line, etc. If it had a different desktop environment, that probably would have helped, but i would still say it wouldn't have had a huge impact.

[Superczar]

People that buy computers at Walmart aren't serious computer users - these are the mom and pop check email/visit Youtube/play around with pictures taken on cameras types. They can barely figure out how to turn it on.

And Everex computers seem like shit to me, my co-worker bought one for his g/f, loaded with Vista and barely enough hardware to support it. 2 weeks after he gave it to her he brought it in the shop for me to look at, it was running like shit. I told him I couldn't be bothered to do anything with it - wasn't worth my time.

[avatar_58]

Walmart sells computers? O_o

[Wamplet]

Yes, they have been for quite some time. :o

I rarely go in the electronics section, but I think they had one side of an aisle at 2 stores dedicated to desktops and laptops.

I think a lot of it may not be on display, too.

[IwantMORE]

Linux is very slowly getting better but still not there yet. One day someone will make it user friendly.

[mon2908]

Who is going to buy a PC in a discounter? Honestly, who will buy his PC in a supermarket?

Linux is very slowly getting better but still not there yet. One day someone will make it user friendly.

Better than today's distributions? Should this really be possible?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4Fbk52Mk1w

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rmz9a9pJR_s

Doubt if this really could be useful. But I think that depends what you think of the word 'better'.

[8IronBob]

Bah, for that price, you'd be better going the DIY route. You can build something with far better components for that same price tag, I'm quite sure... After all, if you're smart enough to use Linux, you're definitely smart enough to build the hardware around it, that's what I say. It doesn't take that much, as far as hardware requirements, to run Linux and/or all the apps that are out there for it.

[Wamplet]

People.don't.know.this

Computers have colour-coded connectors, because people STILL can't match up shapes on the end of their cables.

[Mr.Fibbles]

The audio in and audio out connectors look exactly a like. But yeah, that is true.

[Phayzon]

Very true. I think the biggest problem among computer illiterates' is the VGA port looking like a serial port. If it werent for that I think theyd be fine.
Then again even I find the color coded sound quite useful, and to some degree the PS/2 ports.

[bobthefish]

WAL-MART SUCKS!

(even here in canada!)

[Dopefish7590]

Tis where I got my computer. ;_;

It's was a pretty good deal too...
Oh, and I am typing this from Canada.

[Geir]

Computers that run the Linux operating system instead of Microsoft Corp.'s Windows didn't attract enough attention from Wal-Mart customers, and the chain has stopped selling them in stores, a spokeswoman said Monday.

Yeah, that's because you don't advertise it! Wal-Mart, you are basically hiding the fact that there were ever Linux-based computers in the store! I'm pretty blind of a lot of stuff, but I never see these advertisements in store or in commercial form.

[tony]

Who is going to buy a PC in a discounter? Honestly, who will buy his PC in a supermarket?



Better than today's distributions? Should this really be possible?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4Fbk52Mk1w

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rmz9a9pJR_s

Doubt if this really could be useful. But I think that depends what you think of the word 'better'.

The videos you posted show nothing to do with user friendliness. All I saw in them was eye candy.

[Zero]

Nothing wrong with Linux In my opinion that is, I don't want anymore user friendlyness, Linux is secure because the under workings of the entire OS can be separated, asking a simple question like "would you like me to install your printer for you?" in GUI form is a complex and non-necessary IMHO step, more things to go wrong, and you break away from the low level CLI (going high level does give you any advantages, anything you can do with a GUI I can top with a CLI anyday.

I find that once you get too far away from the hardware (layer after layer just to make everything as friendly as Barney and friends) you encounter alot of bugs, things are not as fast anymore and everything takes up alot of disk space, and for what to make some person with the IQ of 2 understand what there doing? To me it's a waste of resources.

I am not saying Window Managers are bad, i am not saying that they are needed, and i am not saying that I don't support them, I do support them and I love Beryl and Compz, Not I think Linux should stick to being Linux and not try to be Windows.

No Autoruns should ever be used (this is a well known security risk)
No Automounts (this is another security risk)
Remote Desktop (this should ALWAYS be done with SSH with a privet key)

Users only have access to normal hardware and not anything they don't need. (eg, power users should beable to unmount networked drives without root access, install hardware or software)


Iptables should be used (to forward packets, and DROP unwanted traffic on both inbound and outbound traffic and all accepted connections should have ESTABLISHED, RELATED rules, this insures your computer has made the first attempt to contact the server and not the other way around. )

tcp/ip wrapper should ALWAYS be used, this prevents unwanted results :-) (we'll just put it that way)

syncookies should be enabled if running any type of server(s)
TCP stack time outs should be reduced
Time stamps should be reduced

Tripwire should be used (remmeber what every file "looks like" and reports any change to the main system, write a script any change to the sytem files and auto cut the network connection)

GCC stack smash protection patch should be used (recompile GCC and glibc)

rootkit hunter should be ran every week (cron job)

if reformatting a drive make sure to over write it with random shit and then with zeros 20 times (making the data nonrecoverable) takes along ass time, but even if you too the platters apart it won't be possible to retive the data.

Apparmor and SELinux should be used and the policys should be configured.

All usb devices should be have there serial configured in udev rules so no one can simply stick in an unknown usb stick and mount, and exicute it when you arent looking.

Root access should only be availably when you have a hardware key inserted into the system (a simple 128mb usb stick should do the trick)

Anything that is ran that uses the network should be ran as user network and jailed. (this insures that nothing user network is using can gain root access) Also the shell should point to a blank file NOT /dev/null you dont want to give them ANY memory access (user network doesnt have permission to usb devices therfore it is no longer possible to gain root access by expolting a process).

Use BSD init instead of SYs v init

limit the amount of logain fails over a network, (write a script that check the syslog for failed entried with the current days time stamp on them and if the same ip tried to logon 4 times but failed blacklist there ip and notify the admin.


This is how Linux SHOULD be configured, because it's very hard to stop a box in its trax with this configuration. To even get past the firewall you have to hijack a server that i have established a connection to and even then any mistkes in bogus packets will be dropped and the tcp time out reduction will end the session. So packets have to be very well crafted to get past the firewall itself, and even then you have no access to a shell, no resources because you are locked in a jail, unless there is a serious seciry flaw this system is very hard to knock down.

[Plagman]

Okay...

[Steve]

Okay...

It's a "look I am so smart" post. I have my distros configured much like he stated but I don't wank on about it.

[Danule]

linux is for noobs anyway.

[Phayzon]

The reason Linux will never be as popular as Windows is because when the average computer user sees:

"To use Linux all you have to do is *10pg of odd tweaking and downloading things to make it 'better'*"

and

"To use Windows all you have to do is click 'Start'"

The choice is pretty obvious

[Zero]

These are just lockdown settings, I can tighten security even more, but if you go too far usablity starts to become limited.

Sooner or later Linux will come preconfigured in some way like this, I am a DIYer, I don't install linux from a distribution, i compile the whole thing from the ground up and configure everything to my liking.

But Phayzon you are right, and I hope it never does, I don't want a dumbed down version of an OS that provides me freedoms. No offesnse to anyone who can't figure out how to run Linux, I have been using it since 1998, so it's natural to know what I am doing.

If Linux is for "N00bs" then I don't want to imagine what windows is for...lol

Steve i was merly stating the what I prefer, I dislike simplcity because the more simple you make things the less you can do with them. I don't see the point is dumbing something down so others can move to that platform just to say "Hey, I'm on Linux, what do I do now?" I have enough of that on LinuxQuestions, I didn't think it was possible to not know how to how to decompress a tarred-bzip2 archive, then when you don't give them the exact command (because you have better things to do then help people that dont want to read docs) they flip out and say I am moving back to windows... i have a laugh and say whats the hold up then?

Yes Linux needs a bigger user base, but we don't need to dumb things down to get that user base. It's not even hard to understand, if you knew how to use DOS you can use the Linux CLI and learn from there. It's not that hard, if you can outsmart Microsofts Memory Maker for DOS (i did this at age 14) you can figure out how you use a unix shell.

I don't consider myself a smart person by far, there are alot of smarter people out there, so I know this is not hard to do, it's lazyness and thats the only thing. Don't think the windows way, take what you know flush it down the crapper and try to do things differenly from what you are used to, it really is not hard. It's like riding a bike, once you know how to you won't forget it.

[MeatWagon]

I'm getting interested in linux, I've tried Ubuntu and it was decent but when I tried updating my vidcard drivers and enabling 3d it screwed up so I havent bothered with it since.

I want to try it again, can anybody recommend another distro? Also what has your experience with your particular distro been like compared to others?

[Phayzon]

I don't want a dumbed down version of an OS that provides me freedoms.

Woah woah woah, WHAT!?! I thought the whole argument against Windows was the lack of freedom, and now you're saying you dont want freedoms in Linux..?

[8IronBob]

I wish that someone'd make up their mind here... I, for one, like the freedom of Linux, but I also like the easiness and support that Vista has had over the recent times. So, it's a win/win situation.

[Hudson]

I'm getting interested in linux, I've tried Ubuntu and it was decent but when I tried updating my vidcard drivers and enabling 3d it screwed up so I havent bothered with it since.

I want to try it again, can anybody recommend another distro? Also what has your experience with your particular distro been like compared to others?

What version were you using? The latest build of Ubuntu has completely reworked the display driver system and is quite easy to use. No more messing around with Xorg unless you really, really want to. The latest final build is 7.10.

Also, the beta for v8.04 (Hardy) has been released (http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/hardy/beta), when it becomes official you can again expect a plethora of new features and enhancements.

[Zero]

Woah woah woah, WHAT!?! I thought the whole argument against Windows was the lack of freedom, and now you're saying you dont want freedoms in Linux..?


What I mean by this is Linux is already free, but for it to gain more attention for major game devs and to make it bigger in the gaming world it will be dumbed down so people can "understand" what there doing.

Windows is freedom less in a sense that you have closed restrictions, but is free when it comes to hardware choices, Linux is getting there, but it is not 100% there, and the less people we have using Linux make hardware vendors see that Linux is not a contender, so as much as Linux is free, ie no software restrictions, we are still limited to what hardware we can use, eh I own an Audigity ZS Platpro sound card for a reason, because it is 100% supported in Linux, if i were to upgrade to the X-Fi I would lose midi support, remote controll support and probly alot more, because creative (at the time time I checked, maybe it has changed since then) has not realese the hardware info required to write decent drivers, sure dsp and the mixer works, but you are only using part of the hardware, not to its full capability's.

So unless things get dumbed down to the point where every noob can use Linux and do everything with it without looking through pages and pages of documents (ie man pages) we are stuck with hacked drivers, reverse engineered drivers, or poor drivers with unsupported features, so in a way we are limited to being absolutely free, but we are still more free then our Windows users, and thats fine by me, if that is what has to be then that is what has to be, I'd rather small choice in hardware vs dumbing the OS down and losing features that make Linux what it is. I am not trying to be arogrant, the GUI is very useful but in most places using a CLI is more productive.

Example:
Say I want to make an exact copy of a drive, doesnt matter what it is, harddrive, floppy, optical, zip LS-120 whatever, it would be a waste to use a tool with a GUI under linux all i have to do is usse the following command

dd if=<device> of=<place i want to store the image>

when this is used, I wil have a bit for bit exact 1:1 copy of whatever it is i wanted to copy, now why make a GUI for a simple utility like that? Honestly if you just think about it, just the pros vs the cons you will see what i mean

PROS:
Easy to use, anyone can click on a GUI

It's accessible with a mouse

CONS:
It depends on other software (IE either GTK2 or QT libs for drawing the front end).

It's slower (If you time how long it takes to bring up the program, execute what you need and exit the program it's slower then using the CLI.)

Not every option might be accessible due to limited space (you can only draw so many check boxes and ratio buttons in a window without making them cluttered and useless.)

It takes up more space (there are ALOT of command line utility's out there for unix system, if you wrote a GUI for every one, it would take alot of unnecessary pace, not to mention half of the embedded market wouldn't be able to use them, so it would be alot of wasted space that would be worthless to many devices.


As you can see the CONS of dumbing the shit out of a simple command out weight the PROS, so why would you want to dumb down anything just so some people who don't even care how things work can use a system they have no interest in to begin with?

With this in mind why dumb down Linux at all? When the time has come just like DOS's time came, people will have to relearn everything, when DOS died, people didn't ignore windows, they had no choice but to embrace it (or so they thought), if people can learn Windows from only using DOS, then people can learn Linux the way it is.

[peoplessi]

Linux has it's upsides too, but the downsides are too big to make more broadly spread.

#1. Lack of professional level software - in realworld, most of the free "alternatives" don't cut it when you have a business to run
#2. Lack of gamesupport, not their fault, but again, something that hinders it the most, since gamers would be the obvious targetgroup, most of them are highly interested in things, but if games don't work, they don't care. Even the few FPS drop that XP > Vista introduced was too much for them, even if it is now corrected. Imagine what the uproar is with Cedega emulation
#3. Lack of device & driversupport from manufacturers, mostly due linux has very small userbase compared to Windows - seems that most manufactures leave it at that
#4. Lack of one distinct goal, the distros move in different directions, and that doesn't really help at all - "people can learn Linux the way it is" why should they? If everything they need PC for, can be done in a enviroment they know?
#5. The majority of people who use PC's daily, haven't heard of it, they might know Windows to some extent, but Linux is a total unknown for them. This thread kinda proved that

ps. zero, Creative has supported the ALSA E-MU project quite open-handedly, you should check before bashing. Obviously, gamercards(SoundBlaster -serie) are their mainline and as that, they rather not have it open.

[MeatWagon]

What version were you using? The latest build of Ubuntu has completely reworked the display driver system and is quite easy to use. No more messing around with Xorg unless you really, really want to. The latest final build is 7.10.

Also, the beta for v8.04 (Hardy) has been released (http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/hardy/beta), when it becomes official you can again expect a plethora of new features and enhancements.


I think 6.10, I'll give the latest one a try then

[Zero]

ps. zero, Creative has supported the ALSA E-MU project quite open-handedly, you should check before bashing. Obviously, gamercards(SoundBlaster -serie) are their mainline and as that, they rather not have it open.


I know they support it, but it would be nice if things like midi support would work with an X-Fi so I could use it in linux for OpenAL hardware acceleration, but last time I checked this was not possible due to creative not giving out the specs, I dont know if it's true anymore.

As for the rest of stuff you said, alot of it is true, some of it is just opinionated based on professional stuff for Windows vs professional stuff for Linux, I don't think Linux can be gaged against windows like that, remember Linux is not an dummy, or beter phrase for it would be "no brainier" OS, of course things will be easyer or more professional to do, but if you take all the proparitory formats away and used programs with unifed formats instead windows doesn't have any professional software either.