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Daedalus
04-28-2003, 01:14 PM
There already is a Duke to Unreal map converter, but it sucks, because it turns everything into subtract brushes. And that produces a lot of unnecessary vertices, lines and brushes which produce BSP holes.

If you really want to start your own Duke to Unreal map converter project then I'd suggest you learn about Ken Silverman's map format and Unreal's *.t3d format.
Grudge
04-28-2003, 01:44 PM
Originally posted by Daedalus:
There already is a Duke to Unreal map converter, but it sucks, because it turns everything into subtract brushes. And that produces a lot of unnecessary vertices, lines and brushes which produce BSP holes.

If you really want to start your own Duke to Unreal map converter project then I'd suggest you learn about Ken Silverman's map format and Unreal's *.t3d format. <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I already have most of the basic geometry working OK. I've just turned walls/sectors into flat planes as it seems to work fine. The only main problem I still ahve with the geometry is how sectors in sectors work.

The outer sector floor and ceiling is spanning the whole of the sector even if it contains sectors in it. The best example of this is in E1L2 where the sewer is in the middle of a sector. That plane is messed up because o fit. I need to be able to subtract the vertices which are the inner sectors from the outer sector so that it doesn't suffer from the outer one covering the inner sectors floors etc.

On a side note - the reason why I am trying to do the converter myself is I'm trying to make an application (for DNF eventually) which gives a very nice and easy UI to the user to convert the maps. Also - I'm trying to make it in such a way that it would make it easy to use as a kinda mod for unreal in that anyone with it installed will easily be able to play the converted maps online. I don't really know how to explain it so hopefully the result may speak for itself if it ever works images/icons/smile.gif

EDIT: Obviously from what I just said I have read up on both formats. All the map loading code etc is all done. Here's an output from my program in t3d format:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">Begin Map
Begin Actor Class=Brush Name=Brush1
MainScale=(SheerAxis=SHEER_ZX)
PostScale=(SheerAcis=SHEER_ZX)
Level=LevelInfo'MyLevel.LevelInfo0'
Tag=Brush
Region=(Zone=LevelInfo'MyLevel.LevelInfo0',iLeaf=-1)
Begin Brush Name=Model1
Begin PolyList
Begin Polygon
Vertex 952,952,25
Vertex 952,952,-25
Vertex 1096,952,-25
Vertex 1096,952,25
End Polygon
Begin Polygon
Vertex 1096,952,25
Vertex 1096,952,-25
Vertex 1096,1080,-25
Vertex 1096,1080,25
End Polygon
Begin Polygon
Vertex 1096,1080,25
Vertex 1096,1080,-25
Vertex 952,1080,-25
Vertex 952,1080,25
End Polygon
Begin Polygon
Vertex 952,1080,25
Vertex 952,1080,-25
Vertex 952,952,-25
Vertex 952,952,25
End Polygon
Begin Polygon
Vertex 1000,992,-25
Vertex 1056,992,-25
Vertex 1056,1040,-25
Vertex 1000,1040,-25
End Polygon
Begin Polygon
Vertex 1000,1040,25
Vertex 1056,1040,25
Vertex 1056,992,25
Vertex 1000,992,25
End Polygon
End PolyList
End Brush
Brush=Model'MyLevel.Model1'
Name=Brush1
End Actor
Begin Actor Class=Brush Name=Brush3
MainScale=(SheerAxis=SHEER_ZX)
PostScale=(SheerAcis=SHEER_ZX)
Level=LevelInfo'MyLevel.LevelInfo0'
Tag=Brush
Region=(Zone=LevelInfo'MyLevel.LevelInfo0',iLeaf=-1)
Begin Brush Name=Model3
Begin PolyList
Begin Polygon
Vertex 1000,1040,-25
Vertex 1000,1040,0
Vertex 1000,992,0
Vertex 1000,992,-25
End Polygon
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Vertex 1000,992,-25
Vertex 1000,992,0
Vertex 1056,992,0
Vertex 1056,992,-25
End Polygon
Begin Polygon
Vertex 1056,992,-25
Vertex 1056,992,0
Vertex 1056,1040,0
Vertex 1056,1040,-25
End Polygon
Begin Polygon
Vertex 1056,1040,-25
Vertex 1056,1040,0
Vertex 1000,1040,0
Vertex 1000,1040,-25
End Polygon
Begin Polygon
Vertex 1056,1040,0
Vertex 1056,992,0
Vertex 1000,992,0
Vertex 1000,1040,0
End Polygon
Begin Polygon
Vertex 1000,1040,25
Vertex 1000,992,25
Vertex 1056,992,25
Vertex 1056,1040,25
End Polygon
End PolyList
End Brush
Brush=Model'MyLevel.Model3'
Name=Brush3
End Actor
End Map[/code]</blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

[ 04-28-2003, 01:48 PM: Message edited by: Grudge ]
Wamplet
04-28-2003, 02:49 PM
Grudge, meet me on ICQ later on tonight. i got some links to a few good tutorials. it explains the editor and is very fast and easy... like me images/icons/wink.gif

I will post a few in here later on as well, in case you go to sleep before i get home tonight.
Daedalus
04-28-2003, 03:24 PM
Grudge,

I imported that brush you posted into UEd2 and yes, it is messed up. When I subract this brush then only the walls are textured, but ceilings and floors are not. And some lines are missing (2 vertices are not connected with each other).

I made a 'donut shaped' room in Build and exported it with that Duke to Unreal map converter. Here's the result:

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Tag=LevelInfo
Region=(Zone=LevelInfo'MyLevel.LevelInfo0',iLeaf=-1)
Name=LevelInfo0
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CsgOper=CSG_Subtract
MainScale=(SheerAxis=SHEER_ZX)
PostScale=(SheerAxis=SHEER_ZX)
Level=LevelInfo'MyLevel.LevelInfo0'
Tag=Brush
Region=(Zone=LevelInfo'MyLevel.LevelInfo0',iLeaf=-1)
Begin Brush Name=Model0
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PostScale=(SheerAxis=SHEER_ZX)
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Tag=Brush
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Begin Polygon Texture=000-000
Origin +3840.000000, +4352.000000, -64.000000
Vertex +3840.000000, +4352.000000, -64.000000
Vertex +3968.000000, +4224.000000, -64.000000
Vertex +3968.000000, +4096.000000, -64.000000
End Polygon
End PolyList
End Brush
Brush=Model'MyLevel.Model9'
Name=Brush9
End Actor
Begin Actor Class=Brush Name=Brush10
CsgOper=CSG_Subtract
MainScale=(SheerAxis=SHEER_ZX)
PostScale=(SheerAxis=SHEER_ZX)
Level=LevelInfo'MyLevel.LevelInfo0'
Tag=Brush
Region=(Zone=LevelInfo'MyLevel.LevelInfo0',iLeaf=-1)
Begin Brush Name=Model10
Begin PolyList
Begin Polygon Texture=000-000
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Vertex +4224.000000, +4352.000000, +64.000000
Vertex +3968.000000, +4224.000000, +64.000000
Vertex +3968.000000, +4224.000000, -64.000000
End Polygon
Begin Polygon Texture=000-000
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Vertex +3840.000000, +4352.000000, -64.000000
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End Polygon
End PolyList
End Brush
Brush=Model'MyLevel.Model10'
Name=Brush10
End Actor
Begin Actor Class=Brush Name=Brush11
CsgOper=CSG_Subtract
MainScale=(SheerAxis=SHEER_ZX)
PostScale=(SheerAxis=SHEER_ZX)
Level=LevelInfo'MyLevel.LevelInfo0'
Tag=Brush
Region=(Zone=LevelInfo'MyLevel.LevelInfo0',iLeaf=-1)
Begin Brush Name=Model11
Begin PolyList
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Vertex +4096.000000, +4224.000000, +64.000000
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Vertex +4096.000000, +4224.000000, -64.000000
End Polygon
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Vertex +3968.000000, +4224.000000, -64.000000
Vertex +3968.000000, +4224.000000, +64.000000
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Vertex +3968.000000, +4224.000000, +64.000000
Vertex +4096.000000, +4224.000000, +64.000000
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End Polygon
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Vertex +3968.000000, +4224.000000, -64.000000
End Polygon
End PolyList
End Brush
Brush=Model'MyLevel.Model11'
Name=Brush11
End Actor
Begin Actor Class=Brush Name=Brush12
CsgOper=CSG_Subtract
MainScale=(SheerAxis=SHEER_ZX)
PostScale=(SheerAxis=SHEER_ZX)
Level=LevelInfo'MyLevel.LevelInfo0'
Tag=Brush
Region=(Zone=LevelInfo'MyLevel.LevelInfo0',iLeaf=-1)
Begin Brush Name=Model12
Begin PolyList
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End Polygon
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Vertex +4096.000000, +4224.000000, -64.000000
Vertex +4224.000000, +4352.000000, -64.000000
End Polygon
End PolyList
End Brush
Brush=Model'MyLevel.Model12'
Name=Brush12
End Actor
Begin Actor Class=Brush Name=Brush13
CsgOper=CSG_Subtract
MainScale=(SheerAxis=SHEER_ZX)
PostScale=(SheerAxis=SHEER_ZX)
Level=LevelInfo'MyLevel.LevelInfo0'
Tag=Brush
Region=(Zone=LevelInfo'MyLevel.LevelInfo0',iLeaf=-1)
Begin Brush Name=Model13
Begin PolyList
Begin Polygon Texture=000-000
Origin +4096.000000, +4096.000000, +64.000000
Vertex +4096.000000, +4096.000000, -64.000000
Vertex +4096.000000, +4096.000000, +64.000000
Vertex +4096.000000, +4224.000000, +64.000000
Vertex +4096.000000, +4224.000000, -64.000000
End Polygon
Begin Polygon Texture=000-000
Origin +4224.000000, +3968.000000, +64.000000
Vertex +4224.000000, +3968.000000, -64.000000
Vertex +4224.000000, +3968.000000, +64.000000
Vertex +4096.000000, +4096.000000, +64.000000
Vertex +4096.000000, +4096.000000, -64.000000
End Polygon
Begin Polygon Texture=000-000
Origin +4096.000000, +4224.000000, +64.000000
Vertex +4096.000000, +4224.000000, -64.000000
Vertex +4096.000000, +4224.000000, +64.000000
Vertex +4224.000000, +3968.000000, +64.000000
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End Polygon
Begin Polygon Texture=000-000
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End Polygon
Begin Polygon Texture=000-000
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Vertex +4224.000000, +3968.000000, -64.000000
Vertex +4096.000000, +4096.000000, -64.000000
Vertex +4096.000000, +4224.000000, -64.000000
End Polygon
End PolyList
End Brush
Brush=Model'MyLevel.Model13'
Name=Brush13
End Actor
Begin Actor Class=Brush Name=Brush14
CsgOper=CSG_Subtract
MainScale=(SheerAxis=SHEER_ZX)
PostScale=(SheerAxis=SHEER_ZX)
Level=LevelInfo'MyLevel.LevelInfo0'
Tag=Brush
Region=(Zone=LevelInfo'MyLevel.LevelInfo0',iLeaf=-1)
Begin Brush Name=Model14
Begin PolyList
Begin Polygon Texture=000-000
Origin +4096.000000, +4096.000000, +64.000000
Vertex +4096.000000, +4096.000000, -64.000000
Vertex +4096.000000, +4096.000000, +64.000000
Vertex +4224.000000, +3968.000000, +64.000000
Vertex +4224.000000, +3968.000000, -64.000000
End Polygon
Begin Polygon Texture=000-000
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Vertex +3968.000000, +4096.000000, -64.000000
Vertex +3968.000000, +4096.000000, +64.000000
Vertex +4096.000000, +4096.000000, +64.000000
Vertex +4096.000000, +4096.000000, -64.000000
End Polygon
Begin Polygon Texture=000-000
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Vertex +4224.000000, +3968.000000, -64.000000
Vertex +4224.000000, +3968.000000, +64.000000
Vertex +3968.000000, +4096.000000, +64.000000
Vertex +3968.000000, +4096.000000, -64.000000
End Polygon
Begin Polygon Texture=000-000
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Vertex +4224.000000, +3968.000000, +64.000000
Vertex +4096.000000, +4096.000000, +64.000000
Vertex +3968.000000, +4096.000000, +64.000000
End Polygon
Begin Polygon Texture=000-000
Origin +3968.000000, +4096.000000, -64.000000
Vertex +3968.000000, +4096.000000, -64.000000
Vertex +4096.000000, +4096.000000, -64.000000
Vertex +4224.000000, +3968.000000, -64.000000
End Polygon
End PolyList
End Brush
Brush=Model'MyLevel.Model14'
Name=Brush14
End Actor
Begin Actor Class=Brush Name=Brush15
CsgOper=CSG_Subtract
MainScale=(SheerAxis=SHEER_ZX)
PostScale=(SheerAxis=SHEER_ZX)
Level=LevelInfo'MyLevel.LevelInfo0'
Tag=Brush
Region=(Zone=LevelInfo'MyLevel.LevelInfo0',iLeaf=-1)
Begin Brush Name=Model15
Begin PolyList
Begin Polygon Texture=000-000
Origin +3840.000000, +3968.000000, +64.000000
Vertex +3840.000000, +3968.000000, -64.000000
Vertex +3840.000000, +3968.000000, +64.000000
Vertex +3968.000000, +4096.000000, +64.000000
Vertex +3968.000000, +4096.000000, -64.000000
End Polygon
Begin Polygon Texture=000-000
Origin +4224.000000, +3968.000000, +64.000000
Vertex +4224.000000, +3968.000000, -64.000000
Vertex +4224.000000, +3968.000000, +64.000000
Vertex +3840.000000, +3968.000000, +64.000000
Vertex +3840.000000, +3968.000000, -64.000000
End Polygon
Begin Polygon Texture=000-000
Origin +3968.000000, +4096.000000, +64.000000
Vertex +3968.000000, +4096.000000, -64.000000
Vertex +3968.000000, +4096.000000, +64.000000
Vertex +4224.000000, +3968.000000, +64.000000
Vertex +4224.000000, +3968.000000, -64.000000
End Polygon
Begin Polygon Texture=000-000
Origin +3968.000000, +4096.000000, +64.000000
Vertex +3968.000000, +4096.000000, +64.000000
Vertex +3840.000000, +3968.000000, +64.000000
Vertex +4224.000000, +3968.000000, +64.000000
End Polygon
Begin Polygon Texture=000-000
Origin +4224.000000, +3968.000000, -64.000000
Vertex +4224.000000, +3968.000000, -64.000000
Vertex +3840.000000, +3968.000000, -64.000000
Vertex +3968.000000, +4096.000000, -64.000000
End Polygon
End PolyList
End Brush
Brush=Model'MyLevel.Model15'
Name=Brush15
End Actor
End Map[/code]</blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">As you can see and as I said that converter I talked about produces too many subtract brushes for just one room with a sector inside.

But perhaps you can compare this result with results produced by your converter and perhaps it helps you in developing your converter and finding solutions ofr these kind of problems.
Daedalus
04-28-2003, 03:48 PM
And here's an example of a 'donut room' which I directly made in UEd2 only. This one uses 2 brushes only. One for the room and for the sector (column) inside. Clean code. No messing up with lines and vertices.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">Begin Map
Begin Actor Class=LevelInfo Name=LevelInfo0
Level=LevelInfo'MyLevel.LevelInfo0'
Tag=LevelInfo
Region=(Zone=LevelInfo'MyLevel.LevelInfo0',iLeaf=-1)
Name=LevelInfo0
End Actor
Begin Actor Class=Brush Name=Brush1
CsgOper=CSG_Subtract
MainScale=(SheerAxis=SHEER_ZX)
PostScale=(SheerAxis=SHEER_ZX)
Level=LevelInfo'MyLevel.LevelInfo0'
Tag=Brush
Region=(Zone=LevelInfo'MyLevel.LevelInfo0',iLeaf=-1)
Begin Brush Name=Model2
Begin PolyList
Begin Polygon
Origin -00256.000000,-00256.000000,-00128.000000
Normal -00001.000000,+00000.000000,+00000.000000
TextureU +00000.000000,+00001.000000,+00000.000000
TextureV +00000.000000,+00000.000000,-00001.000000
Vertex -00256.000000,-00256.000000,-00128.000000
Vertex -00256.000000,-00256.000000,+00128.000000
Vertex -00256.000000,+00256.000000,+00128.000000
Vertex -00256.000000,+00256.000000,-00128.000000
End Polygon
Begin Polygon
Origin -00256.000000,+00256.000000,-00128.000000
Normal +00000.000000,+00001.000000,+00000.000000
TextureU +00001.000000,+00000.000000,+00000.000000
TextureV +00000.000000,+00000.000000,-00001.000000
Vertex -00256.000000,+00256.000000,-00128.000000
Vertex -00256.000000,+00256.000000,+00128.000000
Vertex +00256.000000,+00256.000000,+00128.000000
Vertex +00256.000000,+00256.000000,-00128.000000
End Polygon
Begin Polygon
Origin +00256.000000,+00256.000000,-00128.000000
Normal +00001.000000,+00000.000000,+00000.000000
TextureU +00000.000000,-00001.000000,+00000.000000
TextureV +00000.000000,+00000.000000,-00001.000000
Vertex +00256.000000,+00256.000000,-00128.000000
Vertex +00256.000000,+00256.000000,+00128.000000
Vertex +00256.000000,-00256.000000,+00128.000000
Vertex +00256.000000,-00256.000000,-00128.000000
End Polygon
Begin Polygon
Origin +00256.000000,-00256.000000,-00128.000000
Normal +00000.000000,-00001.000000,+00000.000000
TextureU -00001.000000,+00000.000000,+00000.000000
TextureV +00000.000000,+00000.000000,-00001.000000
Vertex +00256.000000,-00256.000000,-00128.000000
Vertex +00256.000000,-00256.000000,+00128.000000
Vertex -00256.000000,-00256.000000,+00128.000000
Vertex -00256.000000,-00256.000000,-00128.000000
End Polygon
Begin Polygon
Origin -00256.000000,+00256.000000,+00128.000000
Normal +00000.000000,+00000.000000,+00001.000000
TextureU +00001.000000,+00000.000000,+00000.000000
TextureV +00000.000000,+00001.000000,+00000.000000
Vertex -00256.000000,+00256.000000,+00128.000000
Vertex -00256.000000,-00256.000000,+00128.000000
Vertex +00256.000000,-00256.000000,+00128.000000
Vertex +00256.000000,+00256.000000,+00128.000000
End Polygon
Begin Polygon
Origin -00256.000000,-00256.000000,-00128.000000
Normal +00000.000000,+00000.000000,-00001.000000
TextureU +00001.000000,+00000.000000,+00000.000000
TextureV +00000.000000,-00001.000000,+00000.000000
Vertex -00256.000000,-00256.000000,-00128.000000
Vertex -00256.000000,+00256.000000,-00128.000000
Vertex +00256.000000,+00256.000000,-00128.000000
Vertex +00256.000000,-00256.000000,-00128.000000
End Polygon
End PolyList
End Brush
Brush=Model'MyLevel.Model2'
Name=Brush1
End Actor
Begin Actor Class=Brush Name=Brush2
CsgOper=CSG_Add
MainScale=(SheerAxis=SHEER_ZX)
PostScale=(SheerAxis=SHEER_ZX)
Level=LevelInfo'MyLevel.LevelInfo0'
Tag=Brush
Region=(Zone=LevelInfo'MyLevel.LevelInfo0',iLeaf=-1)
Begin Brush Name=Model3
Begin PolyList
Begin Polygon
Origin -00064.000000,-00064.000000,-00128.000000
Normal -00001.000000,+00000.000000,+00000.000000
TextureU +00000.000000,+00001.000000,+00000.000000
TextureV +00000.000000,+00000.000000,-00001.000000
Vertex -00064.000000,-00064.000000,-00128.000000
Vertex -00064.000000,-00064.000000,+00128.000000
Vertex -00064.000000,+00064.000000,+00128.000000
Vertex -00064.000000,+00064.000000,-00128.000000
End Polygon
Begin Polygon
Origin -00064.000000,+00064.000000,-00128.000000
Normal +00000.000000,+00001.000000,+00000.000000
TextureU +00001.000000,+00000.000000,+00000.000000
TextureV +00000.000000,+00000.000000,-00001.000000
Vertex -00064.000000,+00064.000000,-00128.000000
Vertex -00064.000000,+00064.000000,+00128.000000
Vertex +00064.000000,+00064.000000,+00128.000000
Vertex +00064.000000,+00064.000000,-00128.000000
End Polygon
Begin Polygon
Origin +00064.000000,+00064.000000,-00128.000000
Normal +00001.000000,+00000.000000,+00000.000000
TextureU +00000.000000,-00001.000000,+00000.000000
TextureV +00000.000000,+00000.000000,-00001.000000
Vertex +00064.000000,+00064.000000,-00128.000000
Vertex +00064.000000,+00064.000000,+00128.000000
Vertex +00064.000000,-00064.000000,+00128.000000
Vertex +00064.000000,-00064.000000,-00128.000000
End Polygon
Begin Polygon
Origin +00064.000000,-00064.000000,-00128.000000
Normal +00000.000000,-00001.000000,+00000.000000
TextureU -00001.000000,+00000.000000,+00000.000000
TextureV +00000.000000,+00000.000000,-00001.000000
Vertex +00064.000000,-00064.000000,-00128.000000
Vertex +00064.000000,-00064.000000,+00128.000000
Vertex -00064.000000,-00064.000000,+00128.000000
Vertex -00064.000000,-00064.000000,-00128.000000
End Polygon
Begin Polygon
Origin -00064.000000,+00064.000000,+00128.000000
Normal +00000.000000,+00000.000000,+00001.000000
TextureU +00001.000000,+00000.000000,+00000.000000
TextureV +00000.000000,+00001.000000,+00000.000000
Vertex -00064.000000,+00064.000000,+00128.000000
Vertex -00064.000000,-00064.000000,+00128.000000
Vertex +00064.000000,-00064.000000,+00128.000000
Vertex +00064.000000,+00064.000000,+00128.000000
End Polygon
Begin Polygon
Origin -00064.000000,-00064.000000,-00128.000000
Normal +00000.000000,+00000.000000,-00001.000000
TextureU +00001.000000,+00000.000000,+00000.000000
TextureV +00000.000000,-00001.000000,+00000.000000
Vertex -00064.000000,-00064.000000,-00128.000000
Vertex -00064.000000,+00064.000000,-00128.000000
Vertex +00064.000000,+00064.000000,-00128.000000
Vertex +00064.000000,-00064.000000,-00128.000000
End Polygon
End PolyList
End Brush
Brush=Model'MyLevel.Model3'
Name=Brush2
End Actor
End Map[/code]</blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is how a Duke to Unreal converter should work. First it should create subtract brushes (CSG_Substract) for main rooms and big rooms. Then it should create add brushes (CSG_Add) for the rest which are put inside the main rooms and represent the inner room sectors (mostly red sectors in Duke's Build).

[ 04-28-2003, 03:57 PM: Message edited by: Daedalus ]
NutWrench
04-28-2003, 05:18 PM
What about warped sectors? images/icons/smile.gif

/me ducks and runs
Grudge
04-28-2003, 06:08 PM
Cheers everyone - esp Daedalus!

Sounds, in theory at least that this should be pretty easy to pull off. Compared to what I was doing originally which was creating a sector by generating polygons for the floor/walls etc (as in half-life).

So I'm gonna make the assumption now that for each sector in the game I just need to hollow out a room at those vertices. With the exception of sectors within sectors. In this case I hollow out the outer sector and add the inner sector.

Obviously a room split into two will require no adding at all. Also, whether the central sector will need adding will depend upon the height of the ceiling/floor. If the central area has a lower floor it will need subtracting, if a higher floor will need adding. And the ceiling will need to be considered seperatly from the floor as the floor may stick up from the outer sector whilst the ceiling sticks up from the outer ceiling (ie into the outside of the map)

One final question. Is it possible to have an add and subtract brush at the same vertex and what is the result of it? I say this because, if you had a sector in a sector in a sector (double doughnut)the easiest way to do it would be to subtract the outer sector (to make the room), then add the next inner sector (say if the inner sector was a sink) and then you would want to subtract the central layer from the inner layer (eg a hole in the sink). Would this work?? Basically - does subtract+add+subtract=subtract, add+add+subtract=add etc etc

EDIT: I think I have it! When I subtract a sector any loops inside it I'll add back in with an add brush. Then when I get to the internal sector they can subtract as usual!

[ 04-28-2003, 06:17 PM: Message edited by: Grudge ]
Grudge
04-29-2003, 12:32 AM
Hi,

I'm really new to UnrealEd and to be honest I don't really want to know much about how it works (I've looked at tutorials etc). I'm trying to make a converter for duke maps to unreal format (in particular t3d format).

Unfortunatly I'm damn useless with UnrealEd and I basically want to carve a shape out of a plane. I know I have unrealed2 and I want to get a flat plane and put, say, a square hole in it and then export it to t3d. (Using File-> Export)

I was wondering if someone could either tell me how to carve out a shape or quickly export the file for me and post the t3d file?? I would be very grateful! I know it something about add and subtract brushes but I found the tutorials I was reading a little confusing images/icons/shocked.gif
Grudge
04-29-2003, 08:47 AM
I'm now completly bemused....

I've got what I thought was the code working. In that when I explore the map in wireframe mode the map looks generally sound. However, when I get to look at it in surface mode lots of surfaces are all black (in fact most). In an extreme example, I convered a map I made which was basically a big empty space with a little sub in it. I deleted everything apart from the sub (which is a CSG_ADD) and the outer sector (CSG_SUBTRACT) and still I have huge stupid black areas.

Firstly, a thing I can't understand with UnrealEd is the red thing. Every map I import seems to have one brush in bright red which I cannot delete. So in the example I gave above I moved this red bit (which was a control panel) out of what would be the visible area.

Basically. I now have a map which is jsut a large subtract space with a small add space in it and some random red bit in the viewpoint. I was wondering if anyone who knows about UnrealED could import the code below and tell me if they can see anything obvious that would cause the problem. You don't need to know how the t3d format works just know why the black areas would be there. The code below was the result of importing my t3d file and then exporting it again so you can see the normals etc that unreal calculated.

I would be extremely extremely grateful if anyone can spare a little time to help me out. I'm trying to learn about unrealed as I go but alas I think much of this comes from experience images/icons/frown.gif
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">
Begin Map
Begin Actor Class=LevelInfo Name=LevelInfo1
TimeSeconds=87.155579
AIProfile(0)=1364
Level=LevelInfo'MyLevel.LevelInfo1'
Tag=LevelInfo
Region=(Zone=LevelInfo'MyLevel.LevelInfo1',iLeaf=-1)
Name=LevelInfo1
End Actor
Begin Actor Class=Brush Name=Brush1
CsgOper=CSG_Subtract
MainScale=(SheerAxis=SHEER_ZX)
bDynamicLight=True
Level=LevelInfo'MyLevel.LevelInfo1'
Tag=Brush
Region=(Zone=LevelInfo'MyLevel.LevelInfo1',iLeaf=-1)
Location=(X=4752.000000,Y=-624.000000)
bSelected=True
Begin Brush Name=Model1
Begin PolyList
Begin Polygon Link=0
Origin +02112.000000,+02064.000000,+00064.000000
Normal +00001.000000,+00000.000000,+00000.000000
TextureU +00000.000000,+00001.000000,+00000.000000
TextureV +00000.000000,+00000.000000,+00001.000000
Vertex +02112.000000,+02064.000000,+00064.000000
Vertex +02112.000000,+02064.000000,-00051.000000
Vertex +02112.000000,+02112.000000,-00051.000000
Vertex +02112.000000,+02112.000000,+00064.000000
End Polygon
Begin Polygon Link=1
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Normal +00000.000000,+00001.000000,+00000.000000
TextureU -00001.000000,+00000.000000,+00000.000000
TextureV +00000.000000,+00000.000000,+00001.000000
Vertex +02112.000000,+02112.000000,+00064.000000
Vertex +02112.000000,+02112.000000,-00051.000000
Vertex +01984.000000,+02112.000000,-00051.000000
Vertex +01984.000000,+02112.000000,+00064.000000
End Polygon
Begin Polygon Link=2
Origin +01984.000000,+02112.000000,+00064.000000
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[/code]</blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
Wamplet
04-29-2003, 09:47 AM
Originally posted by Grudge:
Firstly, a thing I can't understand with UnrealEd is the red thing. Every map I import seems to have one brush in bright red which I cannot delete. So in the example I gave above I moved this red bit (which was a control panel) out of what would be the visible area.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The red box/brush is a cookiecutter. I forget the name but it doesnt exist in the map. it just reflects the last brush used, and it is by default a giant square. Pay no attention to it. images/icons/smile.gif
Grudge
04-29-2003, 10:29 AM
OK. I understand the red thing now. I think the first brush I import seems to automatically default to the red brush

Anyway... I've uploaded a very simple map that I've converted. It's in unr format so easy to load. I was wondering if someone could open it and explain what rules I am breaking. It should be clear to someone who knows how unrealed works what is wrong but I am clearly a moron. The map is around 6 brushes in total and represents a sub in a open space which itself has some holes in it for (what would be a couple of doors) and an inside bit.

The link is here:
http://www.p0stwh0res.com/bins/test.unr

Thanks again graemlins/love.gif
Wamplet
04-29-2003, 10:34 AM
crap. i am at work right now but will check it out if no one else does later on tonight. images/icons/frown.gif

is it putting in the wrong brush types?
Grudge
05-01-2003, 09:49 AM
OK. After taking your advice about carving up shapes I kinda meet a big problem! Take this bit from an overhead of e1l2.map (converted). This is the area with the sewer pipe going down:
http://www.p0stwh0res.com/uploads/grudge/unthur1.jpg
If I do what you say and make each concave sector a square then add in the sides I end up with some very fecked up stuff (ie loads of tall adding bits!)

What I started doing was changing the plan. Instead of making a square and adding in the sides I think I may instead have to split a concave sector into several convex sectors. Below is an example of my splitting the convex sectors into several smaller concave ones:
http://www.p0stwh0res.com/uploads/grudge/unthur3.jpg
Would this in theory work? It's a bit of a bugger and I don't know how hard it will make texturing later but it appears to be the only way to stop massive overlaps. If I make each of the convex sectors into a square and add in the the non subtracting bits you can understand the problem.
BTW. Just for fun this is the result of my first compile of the convex stuff I added last night before bed. It needs some touching up images/icons/grin.gif
http://www.p0stwh0res.com/uploads/grudge/unthur2.jpg

Would this method work in theory??
Wamplet
05-01-2003, 09:58 AM
In theory, i think it would. But we still need to see results. images/icons/frown.gif

It's either convert them to convex sectors first, or do it the other way that we were discussing, which i believe didnt lead us too far. images/icons/frown.gif
Grudge
05-01-2003, 10:08 AM
Originally posted by Wamplet:
In theory, i think it would. But we still need to see results. images/icons/frown.gif

It's either convert them to convex sectors first, or do it the other way that we were discussing, which i believe didnt lead us too far. images/icons/frown.gif <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is currently by 6th method of doing it - I'm really beginning to hate the way unreal does stuff images/icons/grin.gif

The other method we discussed would be fine if the sectors were all bordering sectors (like on the test map) but when you have two convex sectors touching the add bits of one sector effects the other. It's quite complicated but trust me the effects were pretty bad images/icons/grin.gif
Wamplet
05-01-2003, 10:37 AM
Agreed. The 2 are quite different and i feared the edges of the vertexes would cause problems. 6 attempts? images/icons/confused.gif EEK. Do you still think it's do-able?

I really wish Build was still around in the new games. I loved that damn engine. graemlins/love.gif
Grudge
05-02-2003, 12:17 AM
Yea its perfectly doable!

I think I've cracked it now (well - on paper)

I've come up with a method to switch the polygons using vector cross products which will effectively split any concave polygons into convex polygons. It will make the results a little messier in UnrealED but I suspect it is the only way it can be sucessfully done. images/icons/frown.gif

My first test with the new procedure hasn't been 100% sucessful but its more likely my maths than the theory so hopefully in the next day or too it shall work at last.

Right now I'm back to reading through my uni project images/icons/frown.gif
Wamplet
05-02-2003, 12:20 AM
Grudge, you are a silly damn fool and i love you for that! \o/ graemlins/love.gif *kiss*

If you need me to test stuff out, let me know. I shall be "awaiting orders."

I think your currently proposed method is messy indeed, but so far it seems like the only way capable of getting the job done.
Daedalus
05-02-2003, 08:05 AM
Originally posted by Wamplet:
The red box/brush is a cookiecutter. I forget the name but it doesnt exist in the map. it just reflects the last brush used, and it is by default a giant square. Pay no attention to it.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The red brush is the so-called "builder brush" with which you build your world by giving it a desired shape, then placing it at a desired location in your map and pressing the Add, Substract, Intersect or Deintersect buttons in UnrealEd. It's name is usually Name=Brush0. When you save your map (or export to *.t3d) then the red builder brush and its recent location is saved, too. When you finish a map it should be always placed outside your map, i.e. outside player's space.

EDIT: In one of the t3d examples I posted above I just simply deleted Brush0 with a text editor. In normal cases it's also saved when exporting to t3d.

Originally posted by Grudge:
I now have a map which is jsut a large subtract space with a small add space in it and some random red bit in the viewpoint. I was wondering if anyone who knows about UnrealED could import the code below and tell me if they can see anything obvious that would cause the problem.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I currently have no time. But I will check the code out and read everything what you're written more carefully (lots of tech stuff here)... expect my answer in some hours......

[ 05-02-2003, 08:12 AM: Message edited by: Daedalus ]
Grudge
05-05-2003, 05:42 PM
Hey! I have now got my splitting stuff implemented. I now have a map which I'm sure SHOULDN'T give holes but it does images/icons/shocked.gif

It's at:
www.p0stwh0res.com/uplaods/grudge/test.unr (http://www.p0stwh0res.com/uplaods/grudge/test.unr) if someone who is kind and knows what is what can help images/icons/smile.gif
Wamplet
05-05-2003, 07:16 PM
^^^ the link isn't working. The site is down or it's the wrong name? images/icons/confused.gif
Daedalus
05-05-2003, 07:57 PM
^The link is not working, because Grudge typed "uplaods" by mistake. It should be "uploads".

Here's the corrected link:
http://www.p0stwh0res.com/uploads/grudge/test.unr

I downloaded the map and I will check it out... images/icons/smile.gif

[ 05-05-2003, 08:00 PM: Message edited by: Daedalus ]
Wamplet
05-18-2003, 09:48 PM
The Bottom is missing a sector.

It pulled only one vertex or maybe it was 2.. yeah it got 2 which only makes a side of the triangle that is missing. It's missing one vertex.
PlayfulPuppy
05-19-2003, 09:23 AM
Holy crap, I just read the title of this thread as "Craving a hole"

... a good sign I need sleep.
Wamplet
05-19-2003, 06:10 PM
Originally posted by PlayfulPuppy:
Holy crap, I just read the title of this thread as "Craving a hole"

... a good sign I need sleep. <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hahaha images/icons/grin.gif Grudge definitely craves a hole, but probably not the same kind you crave. images/icons/tongue.gif :wool: images/icons/frown.gif

In any case, Grudge i have tested your map some more and found that along with the bottom triangle missing 1 vertex, there is a problem on a sector right above it on the other side of the room.

I am not quite sure what is causing the BSP hole on the top sector. Anyways, just concentrate on that triangle first, then we can worry about the other one. Hell, it may be related, images/icons/confused.gif but i doubt it. normally the BSP is god about only having or showing holes next to adjacent BSP.
Grudge
05-20-2003, 06:30 PM
OK. Here are three new test maps:

A simple box with a thing in it (practically):
http://www.p0stwh0res.com/uploads/grudge/test.unr

Wamplets - wampfarm.map:
http://www.p0stwh0res.com/uploads/grudge/test1.unr

E1L2.map:
http://www.p0stwh0res.com/uploads/grudge/test2.unr

If Wamplet (or someone else) could give me a little more feedback would be most grateful!
Wamplet
05-20-2003, 07:48 PM
Grudge, the first conversion of the test map is simply brilliant! No BSP holes that i could see!

the other 2 maps are completely butchered though. images/icons/frown.gif BSP holes up the ass. Definitely a height problem on the e1m2 map. On the Duke3d map, it converted some sprites into BSP i think. i will need to take a better look. but there were several flat sprites that i used and i think the engine thought they were BSP for some reason. images/icons/confused.gif

In any case, you are definitely on the right track, since you managed to import the first map in with no prob.

[ 05-20-2003, 07:53 PM: Message edited by: Wamplet ]
SpaceCow
05-22-2003, 08:41 PM
Hmmm... dude, if you don't know and care about UnrealEd then maybe it's not the right medium to use for creating a Duke map eh?