Curtis Tuckfield's 1999/2000 TC

[Mateos]

Hello,

A friend of mine find and propose me to play a TC, 1999 Full First Episode + 2000 Demo.

It was multi-files, I made GRP, we played it.

But the second episode is a preview... no pass cards available. So, anybody know if it is done and released ?

Official website was http://www.dukeworld.com/2000 , but website is down.

[TerminX]

Unfortunately, the site can't be pulled up on archive.org because the asshat domain parking bastards that ended up with dukeworld.com have an invalid robots.txt that means to allow the site to be crawled by the archiver but instead blocks everything.

:(

[Corvin]

It wasn't completed.

Just download the 2000 TC as that one has the full 1999 in it plus the demo of 2000 all in one archive. But you probably already knew that.

[Mateos]

TerminX, I try what you said before posting ^^, and yes this robot.txt don't like DukeWorld, and more and more websites.

Cause I did first lvl of 2000... it's fabulous. But what is the 10 labyrinthe under the Mansion ? There's no card, I take 1h to do all map (My friend had fallen in a hole, but he didn't die. FF OFF, he stay in :D

It exist a command to kill yourself ? I search "symbolscommand", or a thing like this, and see all commands of eDuke32, but no command to kill.

[XTHX2]

I think there used to be a command to kill the player (I don't know if it still exists, or I'm mistaken) should be killall or kill or killit or something like that.

[DeeperThought]

Open the console and type "spawn BOSS1".

[XTHX2]

Heh, simple and practic...

[Mateos]

My God, I tryed this commabd but only "spawn", and it said "Wrong", thx for your help on this point.

But why "BOSS1" ? It for yourself, or kill a friend in co-op mode ?

[XTHX2]

It is for killing yourself. Think, it spawns above you... who would it crush? Guess... Not so hard ;) (Of course, if you're next to your friend, then you are both gone :D )

[DeeperThought]

My God, I tryed this commabd but only "spawn", and it said "Wrong", thx for your help on this point.

But why "BOSS1" ? It for yourself, or kill a friend in co-op mode ?

The spawn <tilenumber> command does work in the EDuke32 console, but I don't know if you were using EDuke32. And the "spawn BOSS1" was a joke, although you certainly would die doing that.

[Kenny mckormick]

Whoah don't know this,thanks deeper =D...

I'm gonna try this NOW...

edit : When the BOSS1 is spawned he appear and your face and kill you without chance to survive :(...

Nothing to correct this?

and nobody know one command for display the tile that you have on the crosshair?

[eddym4814]

Here's a funny thing: I got an e-mail from Curtis about 2 weeks ago asking if I wanted an updated version of this TC. I said HELL YES! I asked if he would upload it to one of the free hosting sites. He sent me a message about using AIM or something else instead. I said anyway you want. He has not got back to me yet so I will e-mail him again today. If I hear anything I will post it here. :)

[Mateos]

What is his new adress ?

The TXT have an old adress, and can't send mail to this adress. Say him lot of uys wait for update, plz !

[eddym4814]

Mateos
Re: Curtis Tuckfield's 1999/2000 TC
What is his new adress ?

The TXT have an old adress, and can't send mail to this adress. Say him lot of uys wait for update, plz !
Don't worry I will keep on him if he does not get back to me. I sent him a link to this thread to show that people are still playing his TC. I'm not going to post his e-mail address on a public forum without his permission though. He may not appreciate it.

[Mateos]

PM ? ;D

I just finish with a friend the 2000 level, finish by found interuptor of cook-room door. :D

[XTHX2]

I can say that Curtis Tuckfield will reply here, pretty soon ;)

[Jinroh]

I can say that Curtis Tuckfield will reply here, pretty soon ;)

Is it an inside job?

I still gotta try this thing. >_<

[eddym4814]

XTHX2
Re: Curtis Tuckfield's 1999/2000 TC
I can say that Curtis Tuckfield will reply here, pretty soon

Yeah, XTHX2, what do you have ESP? Or almost ESP? :) Curtis got back to me today and said he's been busy but is putting the finishing touches on it before releasing it.

[Curtis Tuckfield]

Hey guys, this is Curtis Tuckfield. Just so you know, I'm in the process of compiling all of what is finished of the 2000 episode into a neat little zip file. I had never really put it all together before and I had to remember how to do a few things as it has been several years since I was spending 17 hours a day working on the project all by myself. I also wanted to add a few humorous finishing touches to the very unfinished Raccoon City level (Resident Evil) and also a little something to help players adjust their game and monitor brightness to the right level. You see, when I began making the levels for 2000, I ended up somehow accidentally using a monitor that was too dim and screwed myself over because now on a regular monitor, everything is too bright and the intricate lighting I did basically isn't there. So I put a magical floating painting at the beginning of the first level that will help you out with that.
Right now, the episode is this:

1. Stauf's Other Mansion

This is the only level that I included on the 2000 demo. It should count as three levels though cause it can take 45 minutes to complete. This level is my tribute to the Trilobyte (R.I.P.) games The 7th Guest and The 11th Hour. Basically, this level is "What if Henry Stauf (the villain from the games) built another, much much larger mansion that still had some of the same concepts such as the chapel, the laboratory, the gallery, the basement maze, the crypt, the guests rooms, the game room, the attic and the room at the top?" There are a few puzzles as well, including the "Lights Out" puzzle from the attic of The 7th Guest is in the attic in this level. When you find it, it seem that it has already been solved by someone. This is probably the largest level ever constructed (that isn't just one giant room or something stupid like that). BTW, the path through the BIG maze beyond the laboratory is the same path as in The 7th Guest, which I'm sure you all have memorized, right? RIGHT?? Heh heh, but seriously, right now I'm thinking of a way to guide a person through that because I realize that it's probably way too hard. This is probably a great multiplayer level. The music in the level is a medley that I put together of some of the music from the games done by George A. Sanger (the Fat Man), who's picture you can see in the gallery and who's ghost and picture you may find in the secret secondary attic. His music is amazing. Also, the paintings in the level are mostly from The 11th Hour. See if you can find the secret tomb of Trilobyte where the bankrupt company is buried. I'll give you a hint: it's in the BIG maze.

2. Underground Fantasy Club 3000

This is another gigantic level. The file is names 1024. map because in this level I use all 1024 available sectors and thus reach the limit of what can be done with the engine. This level starts out at night and combines different enviroments including a farm, a forest, a lake with a dock, cabins (including one based on a real place at Bear Lake (here in Utah). The cabin has three stories and you can look out of the window and see the lake from all levels. This shouldn't have worked, but somehow I got it.), and also a canyon, a party mansion, security checkpoint, and an underground subway system leading to the coolest club around. By the end of the level, it is daytime. This level is large enough to count for 2 levels. It takes about 30 minutes to complete.

3. The Rock Inn Hotel & Casino

This is a very colorful, immature, sex filled romp through the last level that I actually completed. The band who is set up to play on stage is EZ CHEEZ, which was the original name of the musical project that is still currently my baby. After EZ CHEEZ, we became The Echo People, and then The Central Warehouse, and the The Grimpths. Check The Grimpths out at myspace.com/thegrimpths. There is a secret pornographic (mostly hentai) gallery which cannot be reached by going into Build and moving yourself there on the 2D grid. You have to find it in 3D. I'm sure you don't mind, but there is a lot of sexual content in this level. What can I say? I was a horny lonely high school student at the time.

4. Raccoon City

I pieced together a drawn map of ALL of Raccoon City from Resident Evil 2 and 3. I put so much time into trying to make everything as spot on as possible that I eventually gave up when I was making the police station. I realized that the idea of making the whole city with the Build engine by myself would take too long and I wouldn't be able to do certain things and I'm sure I would have run out of available sectors and walls. Even though this level is unfinished, what IS finished is worth seeing because it is REALLY good. I haven't decided if I want to create a boss and or have the level end or if I want to have it so that you are just stuck there, symbolizing the fact that I was stuck there.

So that's what I've got so far. I might make one more level soon, but then again, I might not. I am a professional composer and bandleader now so I don't have as much time as I used to.
If anyone has any recommendations about the TC or about a few places I might upload it to, let me know. Thanks for caring about something so obscure which I put a LOT of time and focus into back in the day! And if anyone's interested, I have been writing the fanfic to end all fanfics based on Silent Hill. It is a serious novel that I have been working on for the past decade. It's similar to the TC in that I can't make any money off of it, I took it to a level beyond other fanfics, and I've spent years on it. Well, if you want to contact me, my email is seaofsorrowsilenthill@hotmail.com. Peace - Curtis Tuckfield

[XTHX2]

Hey guys, this is Curtis Tuckfield. Just so you know, I'm in the process of compiling all of what is finished of the 2000 episode into a neat little zip file. I had never really put it all together before and I had to remember how to do a few things as it has been several years since I was spending 17 hours a day working on the project all by myself. I also wanted to add a few humorous finishing touches to the very unfinished Raccoon City level (Resident Evil) and also a little something to help players adjust their game and monitor brightness to the right level. You see, when I began making the levels for 2000, I ended up somehow accidentally using a monitor that was too dim and screwed myself over because now on a regular monitor, everything is too bright and the intricate lighting I did basically isn't there. So I put a magical floating painting at the beginning of the first level that will help you out with that.
Right now, the episode is this:

1. Stauf's Other Mansion

This is the only level that I included on the 2000 demo. It should count as three levels though cause it can take 45 minutes to complete. This level is my tribute to the Trilobyte (R.I.P.) games The 7th Guest and The 11th Hour. Basically, this level is "What if Henry Stauf (the villain from the games) built another, much much larger mansion that still had some of the same concepts such as the chapel, the laboratory, the gallery, the basement maze, the crypt, the guests rooms, the game room, the attic and the room at the top?" There are a few puzzles as well, including the "Lights Out" puzzle from the attic of The 7th Guest is in the attic in this level. When you find it, it seem that it has already been solved by someone. This is probably the largest level ever constructed (that isn't just one giant room or something stupid like that). BTW, the path through the BIG maze beyond the laboratory is the same path as in The 7th Guest, which I'm sure you all have memorized, right? RIGHT?? Heh heh, but seriously, right now I'm thinking of a way to guide a person through that because I realize that it's probably way too hard. This is probably a great multiplayer level. The music in the level is a medley that I put together of some of the music from the games done by George A. Sanger (the Fat Man), who's picture you can see in the gallery and who's ghost and picture you may find in the secret secondary attic. His music is amazing. Also, the paintings in the level are mostly from The 11th Hour. See if you can find the secret tomb of Trilobyte where the bankrupt company is buried. I'll give you a hint: it's in the BIG maze.

2. Underground Fantasy Club 3000

This is another gigantic level. The file is names 1024. map because in this level I use all 1024 available sectors and thus reach the limit of what can be done with the engine. This level starts out at night and combines different enviroments including a farm, a forest, a lake with a dock, cabins (including one based on a real place at Bear Lake (here in Utah). The cabin has three stories and you can look out of the window and see the lake from all levels. This shouldn't have worked, but somehow I got it.), and also a canyon, a party mansion, security checkpoint, and an underground subway system leading to the coolest club around. By the end of the level, it is daytime. This level is large enough to count for 2 levels. It takes about 30 minutes to complete.

3. The Rock Inn Hotel & Casino

This is a very colorful, immature, sex filled romp through the last level that I actually completed. The band who is set up to play on stage is EZ CHEEZ, which was the original name of the musical project that is still currently my baby. After EZ CHEEZ, we became The Echo People, and then The Central Warehouse, and the The Grimpths. Check The Grimpths out at myspace.com/thegrimpths. There is a secret pornographic (mostly hentai) gallery which cannot be reached by going into Build and moving yourself there on the 2D grid. You have to find it in 3D. I'm sure you don't mind, but there is a lot of sexual content in this level. What can I say? I was a horny lonely high school student at the time.

4. Raccoon City

I pieced together a drawn map of ALL of Raccoon City from Resident Evil 2 and 3. I put so much time into trying to make everything as spot on as possible that I eventually gave up when I was making the police station. I realized that the idea of making the whole city with the Build engine by myself would take too long and I wouldn't be able to do certain things and I'm sure I would have run out of available sectors and walls. Even though this level is unfinished, what IS finished is worth seeing because it is REALLY good. I haven't decided if I want to create a boss and or have the level end or if I want to have it so that you are just stuck there, symbolizing the fact that I was stuck there.

So that's what I've got so far. I might make one more level soon, but then again, I might not. I am a professional composer and bandleader now so I don't have as much time as I used to.
If anyone has any recommendations about the TC or about a few places I might upload it to, let me know. Thanks for caring about something so obscure which I put a LOT of time and focus into back in the day! And if anyone's interested, I have been writing the fanfic to end all fanfics based on Silent Hill. It is a serious novel that I have been working on for the past decade. It's similar to the TC in that I can't make any money off of it, I took it to a level beyond other fanfics, and I've spent years on it. Well, if you want to contact me, my email is seaofsorrowsilenthill@hotmail.com. Peace - Curtis Tuckfield

Hmmm ? What did I tell you all! lol :meninblack:

[eddym4814]

Yeah,Yeah,Yeah, I'm glad to see you were right. :)

[Mateos]

The Mansion is cool, how many hours you used to create the labyrinthe ? :D

[Mikko Sandt]

You may remember me, I didn't much like 1999 TC and was always hoping that 2000 TC would be an improvement. But it's great to see some Dukeworld-era people still alive.

Anyways, if you need space I can always upload any Duke related files to Fileplanet.

[Curtis Tuckfield]

Hey guys. This is Curtis Tuckfield. So I just finished making the Raccoon City (Resident Evil) level into a fully multiplayer ready map. I can honestly say that it should be an amazing deathmatch level. I have also been updating the 1999 levels. For example, I went through the first level and added realistic lighting and did a bunch of stuff that I wasn't good enough at the time to do.
I've been trying to solve the lighting issue for 2000, mostly for the mansion level. As I said, I created the episode on a monitor that turned out to be really dim, so on a regular monitor at regular brightness the shading effects are nonexistent, which is mostly what Mikko was complaining about originally. 1999 had a lot of great lighting that was made on that monitor when it was dimmed by about 25 percent, but nowhere near the level of detail as the 2000 episode, which was made when the monitor was dimmed by about 50 percent. It really sucked to put the insane about of detail into the shading only to have someone say that there was no shading and find out about the monitor. But I think I've got that taken care of now. I'll post screenshots in a bit.

[dcxboxfreak]

Long time ago I played those 2 episodes, and it's great to see people back who created them! Downloading right now...:p

[DeeperThought]

I've been trying to solve the lighting issue for 2000, mostly for the mansion level. As I said, I created the episode on a monitor that turned out to be really dim, so on a regular monitor at regular brightness the shading effects are nonexistent, which is mostly what Mikko was complaining about originally. 1999 had a lot of great lighting that was made on that monitor when it was dimmed by about 25 percent, but nowhere near the level of detail as the 2000 episode, which was made when the monitor was dimmed by about 50 percent. It really sucked to put the insane about of detail into the shading only to have someone say that there was no shading and find out about the monitor. But I think I've got that taken care of now. I'll post screenshots in a bit.

It's probably too late for this to be of any use, but in Mapster you can select a group of sectors (including the whole map if you want), press 'F in 2D mode, and then select an option to multiply or divide the shade values for everything selected. Simply multiplying all of your shade values by 2 this way would have taken only a few seconds and would have had decent results.

[themaniacboy]

where can i download this freaking thing ?

i want to play it,you know. ;)

[eddym4814]

The updated version has not been released yet. You can get the original versions from a lot of places. I have it listed as Duke 1999TC. Click on the link in my sig.

[themaniacboy]

The updated version has not been released yet. You can get the original versions from a lot of places. I have it listed as Duke 1999TC. Click on the link in my sig.

Thanx man :D

[Mateos]

No news about TC ? :(

[eddym4814]

Today 12:06 PM
Mateos
Re: Curtis Tuckfield's 1999/2000 TC
No news about TC ?
lol I subscribed to this thread so when I checked my mail today and saw someone had posted I was hoping for some news too. I was going to wait a month after his last post here before e-mailing him again. I guess now is as good a time as any to see whats he's up to.

[Curtis Tuckfield]

Hey everyone. So I just spent the last two weeks in a Build frenzy; listening to Gentle Giant nonstop and putting a lot of work into the TC. I reshaded all of the mansion level and I did a lot of other things with it also. I just need to reshade the resident evil level now. That one should only take a couple of days. In the mean time, here are some brand new screenshots of the mansion. They will appear too dark if there is a large amount of white or something light on the screen, but they look pretty good here (but only if you have the light off in your room, otherwise, they'll be too dark). The best way to look at these is with the light off and with a black background. If they look too dark, download the files to your hard drive, then view all of them in full screen in a program with a black background like Irfanview, which is free. This is just a small sample of the mansion. Please spread these around if possible. The "2008" TC will be done when it's done, which will be very soon. Peace - Curtis
http://a230.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/93/l_52b784d443774f67c833ffda223f32e5
http://a244.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/61/l_2e717fa1cc7b8a5f23dcf2916d92913b.jpg
http://a274.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/56/l_96edce0aab3ccb357c6a6129267b4a69.jpg
http://a448.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/100/l_aed58fb45476bebc41cf5bc729dc062f.jpg
http://a548.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/58/l_47a6522a8196ed622c2410f0d4b744bb.jpg
http://a467.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/92/l_3db576bc43b71b10ebb51ab6e54f07fa.jpg
http://a985.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/18/l_8d28e08e9f046da72a7ff5aa5991d818.jpg
http://a982.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/87/l_b86c403fc2df2ae29991a01f3bb826fd.jpg

[Curtis Tuckfield]

Here's some more.

http://a954.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/88/l_eb3915eb031d2f90ebb1c3d302e8f6c1.jpg
http://a244.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/61/l_2e717fa1cc7b8a5f23dcf2916d92913b.jpg
http://a763.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/67/l_8598502f702100563e1c829cb8fdfbaa.jpg
http://a73.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/51/l_6ca8a85c39ee742c76ac285f076c7000.jpg
http://a510.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/114/l_700d88ec388ad4f41a89702649412dcd.jpg
http://a291.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/93/l_81c12722c03bc5c7ee73a2bb9eab6bda.jpg
http://a296.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/74/l_cd797c5383bce80b277bbfbca8448d17.jpg
http://a223.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/92/l_4a7aebdb8238b718e9d86031596a869e.jpg

[Curtis Tuckfield]

http://a45.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/14/l_4bdc6776f146c9eb660d3a0077e9aa7c.jpg
http://a181.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/5/l_e580f487ddfdbbc38dd3a27c36d627c4.jpg
http://a925.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/46/l_123e856fe2716fa9fb7d3e3f6160d004.jpg
http://a327.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/107/l_896499b2600fa724c6d84bc6c6631b36.jpg
http://a599.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/2/l_bf2207fa9615491ed80a1ee83c0a3166.jpg
http://a119.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/57/l_b7064a08e8bfb32dc1818e18dba12cb6.jpg
http://a930.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/79/l_8be527385c2b5eaab25c1ed4ab12de49.jpg
http://a60.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/56/l_0d65e3310145e38a6865451f28abe533.jpg

[Curtis Tuckfield]

And the rest.

http://a230.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/93/l_52b784d443774f67c833ffda223f32e5.jpg
http://a668.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/12/l_d2e22da1c156cc19bce5980ba81481c3.jpg

[d3ad connection]

Damn, that looks good!

[nitro404]

Damn, that looks good!

Seconded.

[Mateos]

Yes, yes, yes ! The music of this level was excellent, and I see the work is super ^^

Think I will play it with my friend on internet, it is always able to be played on internet yes ?

[themaniacboy]

Woow !

is this for real ?

[TerminX]

Are those shots taken in the original DOS Build? :o

[Curtis Tuckfield]

Yes, these are real screenshots from my TC which was built entirely in the original MS-DOS version of build. I used no lighting mods or anything else like that. I was going to use Mapster to reshade everything, but I realized that you cannot simply make everything less bright all at once, it doesn't look right. I reshaded everything manually over the course of two weeks (as well as added some more manual lighting effects. All lighting is done by making sectors and points and manually shading those parts in such a way as to give the illusion that there is some kind of real time lighting system at work. I'm fairly sure that this is the first two levels of the second episode of this TC are the largest in history (I used all 1024 available sectors on both of them, and not to say that I used them all, but because I simply ran out. In fact, on the mansion level, I had to delete a great deal of less important sectors (mainly in the labyrinth) in order to add more shading and detail. I am also willing to bet that no human being has ever put as much time into using Build as I have, or at the very least, no human has ever put as much time into one level as I have for the mansion level (but probably also for the second level as well.) Maybe someone like Bryant Arnett who did the Redrum level put as much time into one level, but I doubt that even the Shining level took as long as the mansion.
Years ago, I made the mistake of building a bunch of my best work on a monitor that was way too dim. When I released the 1999TC and especially 2000 demo, they were ridiculed by Mikko Sandt for not having any signs of shading (because of the monitor problem) and also for my using art from Redneck Rampage, which he seemed to think looked terrible and was stealing . I agree that the would not have shown up very well on a normal monitor. I don't agree with the idea that using art from RR was ugly or somehow stealing. The RR art looks three times better than any D3d art, you just have to play it on a higher resolution. I don't think it was wrong or stealing to use RR art simply because were talking about a total conversion of a Build game. I cannot make even a single penny off this. A TC is like a fanfiction, there are NO rules about what art from what Build game you can use or not. I used a lot of RR art because it is much higher quality and gave me a lot more options. If it wasn't for the RR art, there would be no mansion level. I was criticized for my lack of understanding of character and weapon creation, which is fine. I never claimed to be the greatest at that. First off, while most TC teams consisted of 15 or 20 guys in their 20s or 30s all working on different aspects, I did EVERYTHING in my TC by myself. And I was still a teenager. I hadn't even gone through puberty when I made the TC originally (although I did go through puberty late). Hopefully finished levels such as this mansion level, the ridiculously colorful and detailed Casino level, and the Raccoon City level from RE2 (which is as close to the real game as you can get) will finally put an end to anyone questioning my ability to make levels with this ancient piece of technology called "Build".

[themaniacboy]

Yes, these are real screenshots from my TC which was built entirely in the original MS-DOS version of build. I used no lighting mods or anything else like that. I was going to use Mapster to reshade everything, but I realized that you cannot simply make everything less bright all at once, it doesn't look right. I reshaded everything manually over the course of two weeks (as well as added some more manual lighting effects. All lighting is done by making sectors and points and manually shading those parts in such a way as to give the illusion that there is some kind of real time lighting system at work. I'm fairly sure that this is the first two levels of the second episode of this TC are the largest in history (I used all 1024 available sectors on both of them, and not to say that I used them all, but because I simply ran out. In fact, on the mansion level, I had to delete a great deal of less important sectors (mainly in the labyrinth) in order to add more shading and detail. I am also willing to bet that no human being has ever put as much time into using Build as I have, or at the very least, no human has ever put as much time into one level as I have for the mansion level (but probably also for the second level as well.) Maybe someone like Bryant Arnett who did the Redrum level put as much time into one level, but I doubt that even the Shining level took as long as the mansion.
Years ago, I made the mistake of building a bunch of my best work on a monitor that was way too dim. When I released the 1999TC and especially 2000 demo, they were ridiculed by Mikko Sandt for not having any signs of shading (because of the monitor problem) and also for my using art from Redneck Rampage, which he seemed to think looked terrible and was stealing . I agree that the would not have shown up very well on a normal monitor. I don't agree with the idea that using art from RR was ugly or somehow stealing. The RR art looks three times better than any D3d art, you just have to play it on a higher resolution. I don't think it was wrong or stealing to use RR art simply because were talking about a total conversion of a Build game. I cannot make even a single penny off this. A TC is like a fanfiction, there are NO rules about what art from what Build game you can use or not. I used a lot of RR art because it is much higher quality and gave me a lot more options. If it wasn't for the RR art, there would be no mansion level. I was criticized for my lack of understanding of character and weapon creation, which is fine. I never claimed to be the greatest at that. First off, while most TC teams consisted of 15 or 20 guys in their 20s or 30s all working on different aspects, I did EVERYTHING in my TC by myself. And I was still a teenager. I hadn't even gone through puberty when I made the TC originally (although I did go through puberty late). Hopefully finished levels such as this mansion level, the ridiculously colorful and detailed Casino level, and the Raccoon City level from RE2 (which is as close to the real game as you can get) will finally put an end to anyone questioning my ability to make levels with this ancient piece of technology called "Build".


you know very much about mapping now and back then.
i didn't know you used art from RR, its great though :D

i appreciate your hard work and i understand you totally (im dutch :D)

also i agree you didn't steal anything and that guy is it possible he is jealous on your skills ? ;)

[Curtis Tuckfield]

Thanx maniacboy.
So I've been testing the game out with the Hi-Res mod (I can't get the game to work in Dosbox recently) and it looked good, although kind of weird. I forgot that the darkness of the sprites is affected by the darkness of the ceiling (or floor). All my lights and windows and things are too dark now. Does anyone know how to get past this obstacle, so that I can have a bright sprite in a dark sector without the sprite ending up dark in the actual game?

[XTHX2]

You probably need to use CON code with that...

** Define these at somewhere **

gamevar s1 0 2
gamevar s2 0 2


** In actor code **

getactor[THISACTOR].shade s1
getsector[THISACTOR].shade s2
addvarvar s2 s1
setactor[THISACTOR].shade s2


///////////////////////////////////////////

Of course, all those apply only if you do your mod for Eduke... What that does is that it will add sector's shade to the actor's shade and will set the given shade to the actor... For example, if you give it a shade value of -20, and if the sector's shade is 20, the actor's shade will be 0, and etc.

[eddym4814]

I have more screenshots if anyone would like to check them out. Curtis sent me 24 of them but one was a duplicate. I was going to convert them to JPG, (they are PCX),and upload them then realized they were almost 5MB in total size. I just zipped them as is. Here's the link: http://files.filefront.com/1999TCSSzip/;11803909;/fileinfo.htm
Eddy

[oak man]

Stupid question but... Is this out yet?! These screenshots are absolutely AMAZING!!

[Curtis Tuckfield]

When I try to run Duke Nukem 3D in DosBox, it says that I need to insert the CD. The CD is in and I've mounted that drive. The CD works in Dosbox because I can access it, but it still says "insert CD" when I try to play. Anyone know a solution to this?

[TerminX]

I would say you might want to just find an old CD crack or something, but why are you using the original DOS version? :confused:

[The Commander]

If you used Eduke32 and Mapster32 you wouldnt have that 1024 sector limit, You would have 4096 sectors to work with and 16384 walls. :)

[Mateos]

Stupid question but... Is this out yet?! These screenshots are absolutely AMAZING!!

You can dl the ancient version, full 1999 + first level of 2000.

Link :
http://ftp.ntua.gr/pub/vendors/3drealms/duke3d/tc/2000/2000demo.zip

[supergoofy]

When I try to run Duke Nukem 3D in DosBox, it says that I need to insert the CD. The CD is in and I've mounted that drive. The CD works in Dosbox because I can access it, but it still says "insert CD" when I try to play. Anyone know a solution to this?

edit CDROM.INI
e.g. change the line to:
D:\support\ or to whatever CD drive letter of DOSBox (and not the drive letter of your real CD drive)

[Mikko Sandt]

I'm fairly sure that this is the first two levels of the second episode of this TC are the largest in history (I used all 1024 available sectors on both of them, and not to say that I used them all, but because I simply ran out.

Largest as in longest or are you talking about filesize? Maps meeting or exceeding 1024 sectors are ancient history now.

Anyways, if you're using Mapster you can go over the old limit in case you haven't noticed.

I don't agree with the idea that using art from RR was ugly or somehow stealing. The RR art looks three times better than any D3d art, you just have to play it on a higher resolution.

RR art is not ugly and I'm not against "borrowing" stuff from other games. I just felt the levels were left unfinished. Too often sprites and all that South Park stuff seemed to replace real details and trimwork. Don't get me wrong - I liked the South Park references but it just seemed to replace design. The fourth level was a pain in the butt due to its irritating layout. The fifth level was tedious and very lazy (linear, no details excluding a few trees, tons of monsters). I liked the color hue you had in the sixth map but the boss fight was again lazy - a square room with no health, no ammo, no cover - and you're supposed to beat a Battlelord there?

The point about lighting is of course that whenever you have light there must be a light source. Many areas in the TC had light coming from nowhere. However, lighting wasn't that bad - I have seen much worse - and sometimes good lighting did catch my attention - just that if you're able to do it then why get lazy and forget about it when you move on to work on the next room?

also i agree you didn't steal anything and that guy is it possible he is jealous on your skills ?

My maps (http://msdn.planetduke.gamespy.com/mymaps.shtml) are much better than anything in the 1999 TC. Of course I have no idea how the second episode will turn out and I'm anxious to play it.

[themaniacboy]

My maps (http://msdn.planetduke.gamespy.com/mymaps.shtml) are much better than anything in the 1999 TC. Of course I have no idea how the second episode will turn out and I'm anxious to play it.

oow im sorry

[Curtis Tuckfield]

So I managed to fix all the problems with the brightness of a floor interfering with the brightness of certain sprites, specifically lights. The mansion is finished.
I am working on reshading the resident evil level right now and also I'm working with my friend on replacing the shitty weapon I tried to build originally that I could never figure out how to make look right. The new weapon is a 9mm SMG. If anyone wants to help with this, let me know.
New screenshots will be available soon. - Curtis

[Mateos]

Great, I'm waiting for release ^^

I'll start 3D modeling stuying this week-end to help Hendricks, if this can help you too.

[themaniacboy]

sound and looks Awesome

im sure this will kick ass :D

[LAW]

The TC has some flaws but it is without a doubt one of my all-the-time favs. The scary level is great with those Jason's "chit-chats" and R&R voices... Anyway I have two problems with this mod:

1) In the first level when I am climbing to the roof the game freezes. And and it's a deep, hard freeze which results in a manual reset. Yes I play on W98, but it shouldn't happen. Maybe it's just too big slope, too many sprites and long music ambience in one room. Mayby it's some buffer overflow. I encountered it on Duke v.1.4 and 1.5...

2) Is there an exit in the Mansion? Didn't finish that level in 2000 :P

[Mateos]

1) Do you play under eduke32 or DOS game ?

2) YES, I finish it ! In labyrinthe you have a button which open a door, in new room other button for other door (In cookroom), and after card. If you need more help, I'm disponible to play with you on internet :P

[TerminX]

Yes I play on W98, but it shouldn't happen.
Using Win9x and complaining about problems is like living in a warehouse full of rapists and complaining about loose bowels.

[eddym4814]

Originally Posted by LAW: In the first level when I am climbing to the roof the game freezes. And and it's a deep, hard freeze which results in a manual reset. Yes I play on W98, but it shouldn't happen. Maybe it's just too big slope, too many sprites and long music ambiance in one room. maybe it's some buffer overflow. I encountered it on Duke v.1.4 and 1.5...

Is this the same pc you originally played it on? If it is then the problem should be with the pc. Try to close all the other programs that are running in the background. That might help.

I use Win9x (ME) to play all the Duke and other 1990's games I have. I only use a port if the TC/Mod calls for one. Out of the 150+ TC/Mods I've got only two I have not been able to load, and the only real fps problem I've had is with the HRP and some DukePlus maps. If you don't have enough memory free that might be it. But that's just a guess.

[TerminX]

I use Win9x (ME) to play all the Duke and other 1990's games I have.
:(

Duke runs so much better on a modern computer with a modern port than it ever did with the DOS version, it's not even funny. I can understand wanting to be faithful to the original and all that, but how can you tolerate the original mouse aiming, et cetera? Ports are as much about making the game run better than it did before as they are about getting it working with newer computers.

[eddym4814]

TerminX
Re: Curtis Tuckfield's 1999/2000 TC
Quote:
Originally Posted by eddym4814 View Post
I use Win9x (ME) to play all the Duke and other 1990's games I have.


Duke runs so much better on a modern computer with a modern port than it ever did with the DOS version, it's not even funny. I can understand wanting to be faithful to the original and all that, but how can you tolerate the original mouse aiming, et cetera? Ports are as much about making the game run better than it did before as they are about getting it working with newer computers.

I am about as old school as you can get. I play Duke on the keyboard only. I really don't like mouse aiming and only use a mouse if I have to. (HalfLife, Unreal, AVP, etc)

As far as using a port, when I play a mod for fun, whether for Duke, Doom (2) Hexen, etc, I always use a port. It was just that when I started reviewing the mods I wanted to play them as they were originally intended to be. To the best of my knowledge anyway.

Edit: It's not the mouse aiming I don't like, it's all the keys my left hand is responsible for. I like to play in a very dark room and I have problems finding the right keys a lot. It seems like the newer the game the more keys are required to play. I guess a lighted keyboard would really be the way to go for me. :)

[LAW]

Do you play under eduke32 or DOS game ?

I play on pure Win98 because I am too lazy to switch to the "real DOS". To be honest 99% of DOS games have worked that way on my PC. I have had some small problems with Rides Again, Quarantine and Alien Trilogy if I remember right and of course with a few Duke maps.

Using Win9x and complaining about problems is like living in a warehouse full of rapists and complaining about loose bowels.

How is that? Are you trying to convince everybody to use your port? ;)

Duke runs so much better on a modern computer with a modern port than it ever did with the DOS version

Yeah? I have tried Jonof's port recently and I've had a problem with my sound card. Well, it's maybe not a Sound Blaster, but everything besides Jonof and that damned Quake 2 is working great.

how can you tolerate the original mouse aiming, et cetera?

And what's wrong with it? I would "head&shoulders" your butt on DukesterX if you weren't a moderator here ;)

Try to close all the other programs that are running in the background. That might help.

Thanks, but I am playing just after hard reboot and the memory resources are fine.

[jak.xtrmntr]

hello everyone, I'm one of Curtis's friends and bandmates out here in Utah, and am helping him playtest and perfect the 2000TC. A couple things about it....it is BRUTAL. it moves from still and quiet to hardcore intensity and back again, leaving you guessing. it is incredibly well detailed. I've watched Curtis work on this and he puts a ton of effort into every single sector, and it shows. i'll post a few screenshots of my own later today maybe. Curtis says it's almost done and should be ready to distribute before christmas.

that said, my real reason for posting here is that i'm trying to port his TC into the Source engine, and recreate it as a HL2 mod. to save myself the insane amount of work in recreating them from scratch, i've tried to use dukeconv.exe, which is supposed to convert duke3d maps to HL maps. i've been able to get it to convert, but the output looks like all of the vertical sectors are waaaay too tall. does anyone have experience with this utility and how to convert maps, or know a better way to go about this? any advice would be appreciated. also, if anyone out there is good at editing in Source, and would be interested in helping port this TC to a modern engine, please let me know.

[Mateos]

An preview video is possible ?

[jak.xtrmntr]

UPDATE: i figured out dukeconv and have the Mansion map ported into the Hammer editor for the Half-Life 2 engine...problems are 1) none of the textures went with it. I made a WAD file from the duke version but it doesnt seem to want to read it. so all of the textures will have to be reapplied manually. which is going to take a long time. 2) alot of the geometry is going to need fixing and 3) i need to find equivalent types of enemies that can be brought into the Source engine. hm...maybe if we all had Duke Nukem Forever already, at least i wouldn't be having that last problem....

[Mateos]

Duke isn't Doom, a simple conversion GRP/WAD don't work, but I can't help you on this.

[The Commander]

There is not point in trying to convert the map/maps to sorce. You will never get it right.

[jak.xtrmntr]

Right now i have it converted and running in the Hammer editor...i had to get rid of a ton of excess geometry from the conversion process, which involved days worth of clicking on and deleting several hundred tiny triangles.... the ceilings for every room had to be stripped of so i can recreate them using one piece per room instead of dozens.... the garden area is all ready for texturing. everything will still have to be retextured manually, which will take a long time. my biggest question at this point is what enemies to use to make it equally or more dangerous than the original. I have all of the enemies created for HL2 and any mod that might have good enemies to draw on. or try to rip the 3D modeled baddies from Duke3D Hi-Res pack. its not going to be exactly the same but i'll get Curtis over here to give his input when i get a little further.

[Curtis Tuckfield]

Hey, this is Curtis. I've been working on reshading and enhancing the second level of the new episode for a few weeks now and have done some cool stuff. This may not be entirely finished by Christmas, but it will be finished this winter. I don't just work on this all the time, I also have a job, a full time music career thingy (and our music is very complex and original and it is a big dedication), an upcoming album of The Grimpths, an upcoming solo album, three books, and about a dozen other things to do. You see, when I do something creative, I don't **** around. I don't simply say "Oh, let's do this pretty cool song with 3 chords that takes a few minutes to compose." When I write a novel, it takes 10 years, when I make a TC, it takes 10 years, when I make an instrument, it takes a year, when I make an album, it takes several months, when I develop a band, it takes several years. And I do all this stuff at the same time, so sometimes I spend a few days, weeks, or months working on a book about astral plane dynamics, philosophy, quantum physics, etc, and then I spend some time working on music, and then the TC, and on and on and on. Right now I want to finish the TC, because I've put about 7500 hours into it and I want it to be done. At this time in history, we shouldn't be wasting our time doing something watered down that has already been done countless times before. We need to be moving forward with our creativity and expression, not backwards like we seemed to have been doing for awhile (with a few exceptions). There are too many people pretending to be everyone else instead of themselves and when you do that; when you make a bootleg copy of a bootleg copy of a bootleg copy, art and expression and individuality becomes less and less potent. That's not my thing.

[Mateos]

Thanks for your work :D

[themaniacboy]

Woow, you are really a hard working man, Great talents you got there !
i really apreciate this ;)

[Curtis Tuckfield]

I got a lot of lighting work done over the Thanksgiving break on the second level. It should be done within the next few days. What I really need to do now is to make a new weapon, a sub-machine gun to replace the third gun in the game. I tried to do this several years ago but couldn't really figure out how to make it look right. I found ArtEdit to be a difficult program to use. For one, I think it took some time to get the right shade of pink for the invisible background, and then transferring it into DukeRes without it changing the palette number for that certain pink. The hardest part was lining up the pieces of the gun. If I remember correctly, the third gun in the game is actually composed of two or three sections. When I rebuilt it and tried to line those parts up, it was all screwy. I am not a graphic artist. I am great at most other art forms but I suck at drawing and painting. My friend Shane is a great graphic artist and has already drawn a frame for the SMG. He wants to help me make the gun, but remembering back to trying it the first time, I think I could use some tips and pointers from others who have made their own weapons. Besides that, I was wondering how others have taken art from games like DOOM, Blood, or Shadow Warrior and inserted it into the Duke Nukem 3D art files without the art looking all messed up. It works with Redneck Rampage, but the palette for Blood and Shadow Warrior is different from Duke3D. Does anyone know how to do this? And lastly, does anyone know how to make it so that a color picture inserted into the art file can be completely compatible with the game so that one can darken it without it looking weird (like without there being some pixels that do not darken with the rest)? - Curtis

[Mateos]

Why not try DukeResART ?
http://archive.dukertcm.com/knowledge-base/downloads-rtcm/general-tools-editart/

You can also take GRP Studio, to make a GRP with all TC files, for better networking :D

[The Commander]

Why not try DukeResART ?
http://archive.dukertcm.com/knowledge-base/downloads-rtcm/general-tools-editart/

You can also take GRP Studio, to make a GRP with all TC files, for better networking :D

Yes they are both great programs and I am using them both for my mod as well.

[Curtis Tuckfield]

Thanks for the help. I used DukeRes as my main art program originally. The only thing I don't understand, although I somehow figured it out in the end is that you can't simply take a piece of colored art and put it in there and then darken it in build without some of the colors darkening faster than others, and some colors not darkening at all. The other thing involves sprites. You can't just make a sprite with the pink background of invisibility and then put it in DukeRes and expect the pink to become invisible. It always showed up as pink. I can't remember exactly what I did to remedy this. Another issue is the art at the intro, the startup of the game where it normally shows the 3D Realms logo. When I put my own art there and then ran the game, it shows up all messed up. I haven't quite figured that out either.

[Curtis Tuckfield]

So I am wanting this all to be completed by Christmas, but I am also recording a new album at the same time. I am about done with the new episode, but I still have a few things to do with the enhancement of the old episode. I think that what will probably happen is that I will release version 0.9 beta around Christmas and hopefully you guys will play test it once through. Then a few days or weeks later, I will release version 1.0. A few weeks after that, on perhaps Valentine's Day, there will be another release; version 1.1, which will be the the full version with everything enhanced and completed and will have some bonus stuff too. I want to write the midi score to the game, but I haven't had time lately. This TC will not set any new levels for programming or weapons or anything like that, but it will completely raise the bar for level design with build.
And this TC is hard. It's not like that DOOM TC where everything is like impossible, but it will be a real challenge. And the multi-player should be some of the best. The Raccoon City (Resident Evil) level should be a great death match map. When it comes out, I hope you help me tell others to check it out, after all, I spent a lot of time on it. Thanks.

[DeeperThought]

This TC will not set any new levels for programming or weapons or anything like that, but it will completely raise the bar for level design with build.

Are you still using the original MD-DOS build? Even so, that's quite a statement. Most of the great user maps were made using that.

[Curtis Tuckfield]

Yes, the whole thing was constructed using the original Build. I think that Duke Plus is awesome and I like what you can do with the lighting and stuff, but I had most of it done before I really saw what Duke Plus could do. I just wanted do push the original program to it's ultimate limit, which unfortunately took 10 years. What I think would be great is for others to do whatever the hell they want with the TC once it comes out, you know, like add better weapons, and more up to date programming, utilizing things like Duke Plus for the physics and graphics and stuff. I built the original first episode when I was still a kid and it was only popular with a certain kind of D3d fan since it was all about levels and not about story or weapons or enemies (although I did make a new enemy and I tried to make a new weapon). It was all about creative levels and build game style gags. But I had to do it alone and I have never really learned much about programming. Having to make it alone was difficult. I originally tried to develop a team, but I could not find anyone who was dedicated or talented enough. What I really want to do right now is to create a new weapon. I have a talented artist, but that's it. I guess I'll just have to figure it out myself again. I also never used any Build instruction manual. I just figured out everything by myself. I put about 2000 hours into the first episode and about 6000 hours into the second (3500 of which went into the first level only, which is absolutely massive). I find that the best way to create something is to create it for yourself and not for others, then it ends up really good. This is called the "theory of obscurity" which was coined by the anonymous and mysterious "N. Senada" who was an early pioneer of experimental music and who helped "The Residents" in their early years before his death. BTW, is it against the rules to post screenshots or what because mine disappeared? - Curtis

[DeeperThought]

Yes, the whole thing was constructed using the original Build. I think that Duke Plus is awesome and I like what you can do with the lighting and stuff, but I had most of it done before I really saw what Duke Plus could do. I just wanted do push the original program to it's ultimate limit, which unfortunately took 10 years.

I wasn't trying to push DP, I was wondering if you were still using the original sector/wall limits (as opposed to the higher EDuke32 limits), and I'm wondering if you are familiar with some of the excellent user maps and episodes that have been made, which already have raised the bar on Duke level design quite high. Now I know you are using the old limits. By the way, DP and other EDuke32 mods work by adding scripting code and graphics, they don't modify the game engine.

There's nothing wrong with using the old limits and focusing on building fun and innovative levels for the original game. In fact, working with a limited tool set can be a good thing. Lately, I've been working on the coding for a Duke 1.5 TC (no EDuke commands) and I found that the severe limitations forced me to actually think about how to do certain things, and this gave rise to some novel ideas.

[Curtis Tuckfield]

I still use the original sector and wall limits. The mansion level uses all available walls and all available sectors. I have seen what DP can do as far as lighting and realism. But when I make a light source in a room, I usually like to use a lot of sectors that shade outward evenly in some way. I was very impressed by the lighting demo, but in that, when you pick up the lamp and move it around, the light rays spread outward with this jagged edge which I don't know, is that just conforming to the grid or what? I think it's really great and I love how the light moves along everything when the rockets fly by, but I just like having complete manual control of the lighting. Or course there are limitations in using Duke 1.5 but as you say, they make you think about how to do certain things.

[DeeperThought]

I still use the original sector and wall limits. The mansion level uses all available walls and all available sectors. I have seen what DP can do as far as lighting and realism. But when I make a light source in a room, I usually like to use a lot of sectors that shade outward evenly in some way. I was very impressed by the lighting demo, but in that, when you pick up the lamp and move it around, the light rays spread outward with this jagged edge which I don't know, is that just conforming to the grid or what? I think it's really great and I love how the light moves along everything when the rockets fly by, but I just like having complete manual control of the lighting. Or course there are limitations in using Duke 1.5 but as you say, they make you think about how to do certain things.

The DP light works by shading sectors, just like you do when making map, except in real time. That's why there is a jagged boundary -- the room is composed of many square sectors. It's also why the effect only works well in maps designed for it.

[Curtis Tuckfield]

Sorry I haven't released anything yet. I forgot just how busy the Holidays are what with drinking and partying, getting the flu and so forth. I've been slowed down by a few unforeseen bugs with the parallaxed ceiling at a certain area but that's pretty much it. Stay tuned.

[gungriffon geona]

Am I the only one who gets the feeling this isn't the real Curtis Tuckfield, and that this could all be a ruse to garner attention?

[Mikko Sandt]

Am I the only one who gets the feeling this isn't the real Curtis Tuckfield, and that this could all be a ruse to garner attention?

Yes, you are.

[Mateos]

I hope release soon now.

Gungriffon, the screens that Curt set here already exist in the demon of 2000, if that make you happy...

[themaniacboy]

Am I the only one who gets the feeling this isn't the real Curtis Tuckfield, and that this could all be a ruse to garner attention?

why should you think that ?

[gungriffon geona]

Just seems strange that someone from ancient duke times would suddenly reappear to finish an unfinished TC. Moreover, the lack of proper grammar in paragraphs is getting to me quite a bit. There's also the almost absurdly farfetched stories in each post kinda feel... juvenile? Just a bit off, wouldn't you think?
Even then, how are you so certain it's him?

[Mateos]

I contacted him with the e-mail that was in the TXT with original pack.

Suffisant ? Eddy know him for long time too.

[Curtis Tuckfield]

Oh I just can't take it anymore! I have to confess! I have to come out of the closet and confess my sins! I am not really Curtis Tuckfield. I just wanted to be a really really famous celebrity! I wanted to be that kind of icon, that kind of towering giant among so many peasants screaming for their lives! I wanted to be the ultimate human being. Someone who's less than a god, but more than a man, and also more than a god, but less than a man, you know. I wanted to be just like CURTIS TUCKFIELD!
So one day, about 10 years ago, I said to my self "Heepor" (Heepor is my REAL name, Heepor La Fonte Da Monga Jonga VII), you've got to find someone who you can impersonate online, for attention, you know, to feel like a God, a God like Curtis Tuckfield, who is the Sun God of all art that 99.9999% of the world has never even heard of, nor would care for. I must transform! I must become HIM! So I began my vigorous training. Every day, for over a decade, I would wake up, drink 17 raw eggs, look into the mirror and say "Hi. My name is Curtis Tuckfield. What's yours?" And then I'd wink to the person in the reflecting glass and respond. "Curtis Tuckfield." And then I'd snicker salaciously to myself, and so would he, both of us so turned on, so in complete awe over Curtis Tuckfield's ever-growing, awesomely expanding power and glory, and sexiness, which one day, would surely be felt across the entire cosmic universe (actually it has always been felt because Curtis Tuckfield exists outside of space and time). I had found God and it was ME!! Well, I guess it was Curtis freakin' Tuckfield actually, who I became. You see, one day I hid in garbage cans, outside his house. Eventually, he came out with a bundle of waste in each hand. Even holding filth, He was an incredible, arousing brute. I swear to you that He had a golden halo above his noble, humble head. Then I exploded from the grimy container and POUNCED! I stabbed down 78 times with my knife (so that he would not feel much pain), then I took his broken, oozing carcass to my house and hung it above my entertainment center, on a large cross made of some damn fine ebony and ivory (in tribute to what is surely the best song that Paul McCartney or anyone involved with the Beatles or any other band from the 60s had ever written whilst dealing with an exponentially cumulating 25 ounce ball of wet bong resin lodged in their brain). And although not much of Him (Curtis Tuckfield, not Paul McCartney) is left, He is still there for me, guiding and protecting me forever, and his once beautiful facade (now just a greenish, terrifying skull with a few pieces of rotting flesh and maggot laden hair, which aesthetically is just not working out with the new drapes I got from Bed Bath & Beyond) looks down upon me, peering into my very soul, reminding me of His infinite truth and meaning to us all: SALVATION - for He is my messiah! (and should be yours too!)
You caught me red handed, but it doesn't matter. I may not be Curtis Tuckfield, but at least I'm Curtis Tuckfield. I am Him! I AM! YES I AM! YES I AM! YES WE CAN! YES WE.. Oh..wait. Uh...I mean YES I AM! YES I AM! I AM Him and He is ME, if you know what I'm talking about. Butt wat's ya sayin' bout me rong grahmmir?
The haunting voice of Curtis says firstly, that I'm gonna pay for this with my balls, and secondly, that I must figure out how to fix the flippin' problem he was having shortly before his tragic passing and post mortem crucifixion, the one with the parallaxed moving ceiling, so that at least his death will mean something to about 8 people.
Peace - Curtis Tuckfield the Second AKA Heepor La Fonte Da Monga Jonga VII
P.S. Mateos, you can't contact Him OR me through the email address included in the original txt file. It's changed since He was in high school over a decade ago. I made sure of that! It's seaofsorrowsilenthill@hotmail.com now, something I personally chose for us.
Now if you would excuse me, I have to clean ol' Curt's decayed ears with a Q-tip so that he can hear me more efficiently when I sing songs of praise to Him.

[XTHX2]

Poor guy you are.

[Nimoy]

Did anyone read that? I didnt.

[Curtis Tuckfield]

Did anyone besides me get that my last post was a freaking joke?

[eddym4814]

Yes I got it. Thanks for stopping by but an update about your mod would have been nice.

[XTHX2]

Did anyone besides me get that my last post was a freaking joke?

Get your sarcasm away, thanks. There may be people who thought it was real. Then again, it won't change the fact that you are a poor guy, because you actually wasted god knows how much time to write that.

[themaniacboy]

Did anyone besides me get that my last post was a freaking joke?

you sick bastard, wasted all your time to confess others that you are THE Curtis Tuckfield
and i thought all the time you were the real one

ass !

[themaniacboy]

Just seems strange that someone from ancient duke times would suddenly reappear to finish an unfinished TC. Moreover, the lack of proper grammar in paragraphs is getting to me quite a bit. There's also the almost absurdly farfetched stories in each post kinda feel... juvenile? Just a bit off, wouldn't you think?
Even then, how are you so certain it's him?

yeah you were totally right, sorry for misunderstanding you and also sorry for the double post

[Spiker]

I don't really care if he is Curtis Tuckfield or Elvis McShield. I will judge him when he releases something. So far nothing.

[themaniacboy]

I don't really care if he is Curtis Tuckfield or Elvis McShield. I will judge him when he releases something. So far nothing.

he made curtis tuckfield up if i understand it right

[Commando Nukem]

he made curtis tuckfield up if i understand it right

....No?

[eddym4814]

NO! His last post was supposed be be a joke. A very long winded joke though. Come on Curtis, don't take what you read here to heart. Release you your mod and you can have the last laugh.

[themaniacboy]

....No?

oow, then it's just me who misread the post

[Curtis Tuckfield]

For anyone who, even for a moment, actually took that post seriously, lighten up. First off all, if I wasn't Curtis Tuckfield, then how did I magically produce a bunch of screenshots that no one had ever seen? If you aren't sure, just check out his band The Grimpths and email them at myspace.com/thegrimpths and watch me respond. I'd recommend checking us out on YouTube, that's where all of our best stuff is. The complexity, originality and professionalism of the songs on YouTube (which I wrote and play bass on (a bass I made) should prove that I am a serious and original artist. It's just that everything I do is so complex and detailed that some of my projects take a long time. I'd rather take a lot of time to do something and have it met with my approval than just bust out something that everyone else has already done.) Anyway, about the TC, I had some seriously annoying bugs on this level that had to do with the moving parallaxed ceiling tile "cloudyskies". All of the sudden, there were sections that weren't moving with the rest. I fixed them, but that made other parts of the sky in completely or seemingly unrelated areas of the map to screw up. I messed with them, and that fixed some but screwed up others. It took about a month, but I finally solved the puzzle. The first two levels of the new episode are now completely finished, as well as the Raccoon City (Resident Evil 2) level. Those were the big ones. The first two were 80 percent of what I needed to work out from the old days simply because of their size and because I had to redo and revise a lot within them. I have one more level to re-shade and do a little enhancement on, but that level will need only a tiny fraction of the work that those first two did. Then I have to finish enhancing the last three levels from the 1999 episode, which is going to be released as it was, only everything looks more like the new stuff. That should take about a week and a half if everything goes smoothly and nothing comes up in my life. So the TC is about 99.5 percent complete. I have some new screenshots that I'll release when I get home from work. Oh and sorry for any long winded posts, but I write books. I'm a writer, so expression through words is something that often arises. And if your too lazy to absorb something which takes 60 seconds to read, I'm sorry. Peace - Curtis Tuckfield???

[themaniacboy]

For anyone who, even for a moment, actually took that post seriously, lighten up. First off all, if I wasn't Curtis Tuckfield, then how did I magically produce a bunch of screenshots that no one had ever seen? If you aren't sure, just check out his band The Grimpths and email them at myspace.com/thegrimpths and watch me respond. I'd recommend checking us out on YouTube, that's where all of our best stuff is. The complexity, originality and professionalism of the songs on YouTube (which I wrote and play bass on (a bass I made) should prove that I am a serious and original artist. It's just that everything I do is so complex and detailed that some of my projects take a long time. I'd rather take a lot of time to do something and have it met with my approval than just bust out something that everyone else has already done.) Anyway, about the TC, I had some seriously annoying bugs on this level that had to do with the moving parallaxed ceiling tile "cloudyskies". All of the sudden, there were sections that weren't moving with the rest. I fixed them, but that made other parts of the sky in completely or seemingly unrelated areas of the map to screw up. I messed with them, and that fixed some but screwed up others. It took about a month, but I finally solved the puzzle. The first two levels of the new episode are now completely finished, as well as the Raccoon City (Resident Evil 2) level. Those were the big ones. The first two were 80 percent of what I needed to work out from the old days simply because of their size and because I had to redo and revise a lot within them. I have one more level to re-shade and do a little enhancement on, but that level will need only a tiny fraction of the work that those first two did. Then I have to finish enhancing the last three levels from the 1999 episode, which is going to be released as it was, only everything looks more like the new stuff. That should take about a week and a half if everything goes smoothly and nothing comes up in my life. So the TC is about 99.5 percent complete. I have some new screenshots that I'll release when I get home from work. Oh and sorry for any long winded posts, but I write books. I'm a writer, so expression through words is something that often arises. And if your too lazy to absorb something which takes 60 seconds to read, I'm sorry. Peace - Curtis Tuckfield???

but nobody can get the joke if the post is too long, they may be lazy to read, like me but i only read long posts if they are serious, long jokes aren't funny

BTW if i offenced you in any way, than i'm sorry, i read your last post and i had to add this, i like these kind of serious posts, and not the long reading joke ones

[XTHX2]

Then the advice of the year would be : Cut the crap and work on your mod ^_^

[Curtis Tuckfield]

That's it! I'm gonna release my TC, but as a text adventure game, describing the quest, the battles and environments via long winded paragraphs! HAHA!
BTW, you guys spent more time complaining about how long that post was than it took to read it. Just be sure not to read any of the books I've written, cuz they're each like 500 pages.

[themaniacboy]

That's it! I'm gonna release my TC, but as a text adventure game, describing the quest, the battles and environments via long winded paragraphs! HAHA!
BTW, you guys spent more time complaining about how long that post was than it took to read it. Just be sure not to read any of the books I've written, cuz they're each like 500 pages.

and what are those books about ?
i hope you aren't teasing us with your tc

[Curtis Tuckfield]

Here are some more screenshots.

http://c2.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/25/l_7db5142655be4a21b35f670808c0fea9.jpg

http://c1.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/20/l_0046ec2013404d71b1b5965f93829b14.jpg

http://c1.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/9/l_e94dc377567a4ba1a7bd668e2e94e294.jpg

http://c4.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/38/l_a7b248dee8794a5ba0c843ad8e37b4b3.jpg

http://c3.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/22/l_629c3a3d753d4045b5e71843870db03a.jpg

http://c3.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/33/l_d71a3db54846407d8fd6c3f75453de9e.jpg

http://c3.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/55/l_edd1c3d749bc4fcfb86bdcdb190060f6.jpg

http://c4.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/24/l_81c806f330ea4d2ea82501f98dc0bb47.jpg

[Curtis Tuckfield]

http://c3.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/18/l_561c802916e24732b2929d13ba90c656.jpg

http://c3.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/33/l_4893cce8ad2c403186fe621e1235f826.jpg

http://c3.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/17/l_fe52a97275684e778e536b2bfe84935e.jpg

http://c1.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/40/l_e0dc7cb5506c47febf2e077b739de744.jpg

http://c3.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/58/l_298c3105b9a44afbb0ee7f67160dbd12.jpg

http://c3.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/7/l_964058429a0549c0b9836afc023a0ab2.jpg

[Curtis Tuckfield]

http://c3.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/46/l_db13e41035f4424e99e4ba2cb0921796.jpg

http://c3.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/14/l_19616a062674403ba65553000b677b1e.jpg

http://c3.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/8/l_16f6315ecd5041e9a00c6b237290e586.jpg

[Curtis Tuckfield]

If these appear too dark to you, it's your monitor. I tested these on several computers and they were fine on all except one.

[Nimoy]

http://c1.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/40/l_e0dc7cb5506c47febf2e077b739de744.jpg

http://c3.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/58/l_298c3105b9a44afbb0ee7f67160dbd12.jpg

http://c3.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/7/l_964058429a0549c0b9836afc023a0ab2.jpg

This totally raises the bar in level design, no doubt.

[eddym4814]

The first eight screenshots and the last six look very nice. The three Nimoy quoted look a little generic but still good IMO.

[themaniacboy]

wauw, you proved your point, though i don't know what that was anymore :D

[Mikko Sandt]

Texturing & trimming in the three screenshots quoted by Nimoy seem a bit modest. As for the other shots, I'd guess the higher quality RR textures hide this problem a bit.

[Mateos]

If these appear too dark to you, it's your monitor. I tested these on several computers and they were fine on all except one.

That make a good ambience in-game, not a problem :D

[Curtis Tuckfield]

I agree that the one's Nimoy quoted are the least impressive, although the screens of the security room and conference room may be almost deceptively generic. Normally, a person would likely create something like that in a space station, a factory, a sewer treatment facility or something, but these are the security monitoring station for the checkpoint to the secret club beneath an enormous house (not nearly as large as the mansion of the first level, but still large) in the second level.
But what are you talking about with the texturing and trimming being a bit modest? This is Duke 3D 1.5 we are talking about, not Bioshock or something. This game is like 13 years old. You are always so quick to criticize me Mikko. Notice how you have said things like "My TC is better than your TC" (referring to the original episode). And notice how I have not once said that my TC is better than yours or criticized you in any way? I haven't because that would be immature. Some criticism is fine, but you seem a bit biased towards me. It's not like you paid me money 10 years ago to build you a TC that fit your exact specifications. This is something that's done for fun. Anyone doing it is a volunteer so chill out.

[DeeperThought]

But what are you talking about with the texturing and trimming being a bit modest? This is Duke 3D 1.5 we are talking about, not Bioshock or something. This game is like 13 years old. You are always so quick to criticize me Mikko. Notice how you have said things like "My TC is better than your TC" (referring to the original episode). And notice how I have not once said that my TC is better than yours or criticized you in any way? I haven't because that would be immature. Some criticism is fine, but you seem a bit biased towards me. It's not like you paid me money 10 years ago to build you a TC that fit your exact specifications. This is something that's done for fun. Anyone doing it is a volunteer so chill out.

The game is indeed old and the standards for maps have gone up over the years. All he said was that the texturing and trimming in those three shots "seem a bit modest". That's a very mild criticism. Your reaction is paranoid.

[Nimoy]

The game being old is no excuse. Maps like that have been outdated since 2000.

[DeeperThought]

The game being old is no excuse. Maps like that have been outdated since 2000.

Whether it is "outdated" really depends on what he is going for. There's nothing wrong with using an older style like the original maps, for example. I like the old, simple style (as long as it's clean and consistent, etc.) and I wouldn't dismiss someone who is using it. On the other hand, he did say he would "raise the bar in level design" and it's not clear what that is supposed to mean...

[Nimoy]

And therein lies the reason I joked.

[Commando Nukem]

The game being old is no excuse. Maps like that have been outdated since 2000.

Mapping nazi. :p




Looks great to me Curtis. I think you've got your work cut out for ya though, indeed. :D

[Nimoy]

Ausrotten alt abbildung architekturstile!

[marked]

Well I'm waiting for the final version before saying too much. I recently got back in to "dukeing" again in the middle of last year so I probably have not loaded and played nearly as many mods or TC's as a lot of others out here. The look and feel from the few screenshots look to be different from the usual space station maps and textures so that is a plus to me. I can't wait to try it out.

[Mikko Sandt]

But what are you talking about with the texturing and trimming being a bit modest? This is Duke 3D 1.5 we are talking about, not Bioshock or something.

Many user-made Duke3D maps make Bioshock seem undetailed.

This game is like 13 years old.

Doom is much older. You should see some of the maps people are building for it these days.

You are always so quick to criticize me Mikko.

I don't understand people like you who start whining the moment someone makes a negative comment. It seems to be okay for as long as everyone's going "Hey, those shots look GREAT!" (comments like that are not helpful at all).

Notice how you have said things like "My TC is better than your TC" (referring to the original episode).

This was a reply to someone's comment which accused me of being jealous.

And notice how I have not once said that my TC is better than yours or criticized you in any way? I haven't because that would be immature.

Why would it be? It'd be immature if you refrained from posting constructive criticism simply because you don't want me to get hurt.

Some criticism is fine, but you seem a bit biased towards me.

Based on what? The fact that I dared to criticise the screenshots you posted? I have done that a billion times and I'd do it to anyone.

Just to prove a point:

Poor lighting, modest texturing, nonexistent trimwork (note that this room was created by me based on the screenshot you posted):
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y259/msandt/sample1.jpg

Cleary better:
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y259/msandt/sample2.jpg

Edit: Notice how the textures in my example are much more consistent. It has a grey-blue hue whileas your room has all kinds of crazy colors that don't go well together.

[The Commander]

How long did it take you to do that?

[Mikko Sandt]

Ten minutes maybe.

[The Commander]

Both versions? No way. 30 mins at the most, Id believe that. :p

[Mikko Sandt]

The map was created at 17.37 and the second screenshot taken at 17.58. I deducted five minutes due to activities not connected to mapping so that makes fifteen minutes of mapping.

[The Commander]

You should make a speed mapping video then and upload it somewhere. :p

Would beat all them duke nukem speed run vids. ;)

[Nimoy]

Both versions? No way. 30 mins at the most, Id believe that. :p

Any experienced mapper could do it in that time. Its simply nothing special. Most of your time would be spent thinking of what to do. Its simple and looks great, what makes a good map.

[Curtis Tuckfield]

You totally proved my point Mikko. You actually needed to feel you were right so badly that you tried to recreate one of my screenshots and then showed how you could do it better and then showed how to "correctly" go about a security room? The copy of mine looks good, although the table/chair sides tile, (the brown ones with red legs that are beneath the computer screen) are not like mine. They are misaligned and should only be underneath the computers. This is so you could put chairs there and sit with your legs beneath the table. It's functional and just looks better. Anyway, it simultaneously looks worse and better than mine. It looks worse because things such as the monitors on the wall are not centered to the tiles well etc, and looks better because you had it at a higher resolution which for the original Duke3D has it's pros and cons.
The second one, while it's fine for you, is not who I am artistically. I liked Duke 3D because unlike all the, let's say Quake levels, was colorful and took place in cities and apartments and bars. I like color and I like to do things my own way. The second screen is cool, but in my opinion those kind of sterile, gray, industrial, factory/space station type environments have just been done so many times. The security room for this house is MY security room for MY house and is a checkpoint to get into MY illegal underground club, and it's not YOUR space station or sewage treatment plant control room in Quake.
And I want to see these levels made with Build that make Bioshock seem undetailed. And these super detailed DOOM levels too.
You see Mikko, I don't hate you and I don't care whose better at doing whatever. If you could make something that looks better than let's say, my gigantic mansion level, I wouldn't get upset. I'd be happy to see someone actually trying to be original. Your screenshot, whether you think it looks better or not, is not very original. And the lighting beneath the lights is kind of unrealistic in my opinion, but whatever.
Also, I didn't just start whining because you suddenly criticized me. That's all you've done and you've done it for a long time. I may have whined 10 years ago, but I'm only defending myself now. A word of advice for you and anyone who's listening. The smaller your ego, the happier you are in life. The bigger, the more you suffer.

[Nimoy]

Why hello thar.
http://wgr2.williamgeegallery.com/screens/4.jpg


There are numerous examples, but I dont really have access to duke or any other good screenshots. Just look around, good maps are common now.

[DeeperThought]

And I want to see these levels made with Build that make Bioshock seem undetailed.

Some people might take this as an invitation to post screenshots of other maps in your thread. That would probably derail the thread and end badly.


A word of advice for you and anyone who's listening. The smaller your ego, the happier you are in life. The bigger, the more you suffer.

Why do you bring this up? I don't think Mikko is suffering...

[Curtis Tuckfield]

See, that's better. That's good level making. But sorry, this is not Duke Nukem 3D. This is something else completely. My TC was built using the original Build technology. This was built with revamped, reprogrammed multi-modded technology. You can't really compare my screenshots with this stuff. It's like saying "Here's my Quake 1 level." "Oh yeah? Here's my Quake 3 level, it looks even better." Of course it does, it's Quake 3!"
I still like really it though. Any others from anyone? I'd like to see them.

[Curtis Tuckfield]

And I didn't bring up the ego because Mikko criticizes me, just because of the manner in which he does it. I'm sorry, it just smacks of ego.

[DeeperThought]

What do you think of the Roch maps (especially the later ones)? They were all made using the original art and the original Build with no enhancements.

[Steve]

What do you think of the Roch maps (especially the later ones)? They were all made using the original art and the original Build with no enhancements.

Indeed they were. So bloody well designed :love:

[Commando Nukem]

Guys... Lay off already. Enough. There is no board of mappers that decides what is universally SUPPOSED TO BE in a map. If he wants to make maps his way, and thats how he feels - Stop pushing it.

[XTHX2]

Just leave this guy alone and make him finish his project, then spam his thread :))))

[Mikko Sandt]

To Commando Nukem, XTHX2 and other "peacemakers": This discussion is 100% relevant. If Curtis posts screenshots of his work then it's assumed that people comment them. Nowhere did it say that only positive, one-sentence posts saying "The shots look GREAT!" are allowed. How on Earth can anyone consider this discussion between me and Curtis "spam"?

You actually needed to feel you were right so badly that you tried to recreate one of my screenshots and then showed how you could do it better and then showed how to "correctly" go about a security room?

No. It was to prove a point and help you and others become better builders. I'm trying to provide constructive criticism but apparently this is something you don't want. Have I insulted your "artistic integrity" by trying to help you or something?

The copy of mine looks good, although the table/chair sides tile...

I'm aware of all this but didn't find it necessary to make an exact copy to prove a point.

The second one, while it's fine for you, is not who I am artistically. I liked Duke 3D because unlike all the, let's say Quake levels, was colorful and took place in cities and apartments and bars. I like color and I like to do things my own way. The second screen is cool, but in my opinion those kind of sterile, gray, industrial, factory/space station type environments have just been done so many times.

My point was not to advocate grey hi-tech design. You can pick any style you want. The point of my demonstration was that:
-Your lighting is bad.
-Your trimwork is bad.
-You texturing is mediocre.

The theme is irrelevant: the points stand whether you're making a hi-tech map, a space map or a city map. The colors in your screenshot just don't go well together. You've got green, brown, white and so on. The original game was colorful, yes, and we all like it because of it but the colors were consistent. In your screenshot, they're not. In the original game edges were trimmed. In your screenshot there's absolutely no trimming. The original levels are full of excellent lighting. In your screenshot there is no lighting.

There aren't also that many details. Your screenshot shows what, ten sectors? Mine has twenty. The point is that it doesn't take a lot of work to build a room with just a few sectors.

And I want to see these levels made with Build that make Bioshock seem undetailed. And these super detailed DOOM levels too.

http://www.doomworld.com

Your screenshot, whether you think it looks better or not, is not very original.

It is not very original since it's just a generic hi-tech room. Are you suggesting that your room is somehow original?

Also, I didn't just start whining because you suddenly criticized me. That's all you've done and you've done it for a long time.

You really are paranoid. I wrote a review (a bad one but the points still stand) almost ten years ago and have so far criticised three screenshots in this thread.

A word of advice for you and anyone who's listening. The smaller your ego, the happier you are in life. The bigger, the more you suffer.

We both have egos. The difference is that I have a realistic view of myself and that I'm able to value my work objectively without immediately accusing someone who's criticising my work of being on a personal crusade against me.

[XTHX2]

My purpose was not to make peace, but to make curtis stop posting nonsense stuff in here to make him look even worse :insomnia:

[Commando Nukem]

To Commando Nukem, XTHX2 and other "peacemakers": This discussion is 100% relevant. If Curtis posts screenshots of his work then it's assumed that people comment them. Nowhere did it say that only positive, one-sentence posts saying "The shots look GREAT!" are allowed. How on Earth can anyone consider this discussion between me and Curtis "spam"?

Theres being constructive, and then theres trying to force the issue. You laid out your criticism, and he responded. If he doesnt want to accept your criticism, then you have to accept that. He doesnt have to listen to what people come in here and say. I'm not against being constructive or giving criticism, but trying to pound it into someone that they HAVE to meet some arbitrary standard is a load of crap. This is a hobby thing for him.

[supergoofy]

I agree with what Commando Nukem said

If want to demand something from someone, first pay him. else stop that kind of childish act, like mine is better than yours etc. etc.

if you don't like someones work, then do not use his mod, or better do your own mod.

and you cannot criticize a mod unless you played it.

[Nimoy]

I agree with what Commando Nukem said

If want to demand something from someone, first pay him. else stop that kind of childish act, like mine is better than yours etc. etc.

if you don't like someones work, then do not use his mod, or better do your own mod.

and you cannot criticize a mod unless you played it.


There is a big difference between architecture and gameplay, genius.

[supergoofy]

yeah right, you are the genius and I'm the stupid

[DeeperThought]

Theres being constructive, and then theres trying to force the issue. You laid out your criticism, and he responded. If he doesnt want to accept your criticism, then you have to accept that. He doesnt have to listen to what people come in here and say. I'm not against being constructive or giving criticism, but trying to pound it into someone that they HAVE to meet some arbitrary standard is a load of crap. This is a hobby thing for him.

That's all true, but consider: 1) When he responded, he made some accusations against Mikko (about his motives, etc). Mikko then rebutted those accusations in his last post (in fact, the entirely of Mikko's last post was responding to those accusations). Are you saying that Mikko isn't allowed to respond? That seems pretty unfair. 2) The standards under discussion aren't arbitrary.

[Mateos]

I hope that the post after me will be from Curtis, and not a response of Commando Nukem or Mikko just for that...

I think this TC takes too many time, but I don't know why.

[Mikko Sandt]

If he doesnt want to accept your criticism, then you have to accept that.

I don't understand any of that. Curtis was wrong about certain facts and when I showed this to him he responded with ad hominem attacks.

He doesnt have to listen to what people come in here and say.

Then he should not advertise his projects on public forums.

I'm not against being constructive or giving criticism, but trying to pound it into someone that they HAVE to meet some arbitrary standard is a load of crap. This is a hobby thing for him.

What a lame excuse that last sentence is. Building and modding is a hobby to all of us. That is no excuse for subpar design.

[Zaxtor]

Why hello thar.
http://wgr2.williamgeegallery.com/screens/4.jpg


There are numerous examples, but I dont really have access to duke or any other good screenshots. Just look around, good maps are common now.

That shot is soo awsome!!

[Commando Nukem]

I don't understand any of that. Curtis was wrong about certain facts and when I showed this to him he responded with ad hominem attacks.

He explained his position very clearly actually. You were saying in effect "You're doing it wrong" when he was not doing it wrong. He just didnt do it the way you would. That's his choice, you don't have to play it. and if you want to review the map and call it crap, thats your choice to.



Then he should not advertise his projects on public forums.

It doesn't say anywhere in the forum rules that you have to accept criticism and put it to use, does it?



What a lame excuse that last sentence is. Building and modding is a hobby to all of us. That is no excuse for subpar design.

It is only your opinion that the design is subpar, it is not a fact. It's his choice, not yours. Thats all im saying.

[gungriffon geona]

hey hey!

Is it possible to not fight over something so pointless?
What you are doing is wrong! Helping in this way when it's obvious that it's not wanted only garners hatred! Please refrain from this quickly!

Or that's what I'd say if I was foreign and cared. all this shit's gonna do is cause a bunch of BAAAAW and another unfinished TC. so kindly stuff it if any of you care enough to see SOMETHING finished around here, instead of waving around lots of unfinished garbage we'll never get to play.
OR PERHAPS DRIVE C CRASHED AND YOU LOST IT? (bald faced lie :D )

[Nimoy]

It is only your opinion that the design is subpar, it is not a fact. It's his choice, not yours. Thats all im saying.

WRONG!

You determine it being subpar by comparing it to other recently released examples.

[TerminX]

You guys need to knock off the bickering. If I have to start removing posts from this thread, I am seriously going to be annoyed. Curtis can make maps that look like whatever the hell he likes, but if you have criticism for them feel free to say something constructive without the wannabe elitist "oh, I can make that in 10 minutes and my maps are so much better" bullshit.

Everyone should be happy someone is making maps for Duke anymore at all; if you think the maps you make are better, make some and start your own thread about them.

[Mateos]

You guys need to knock off the bickering. If I have to start removing posts from this thread, I am seriously going to be annoyed. Curtis can make maps that look like whatever the hell he likes, but if you have criticism for them feel free to say something constructive without the wannabe elitist "oh, I can make that in 10 minutes and my maps are so much better" bullshit.

Everyone should be happy someone is making maps for Duke anymore at all; if you think the maps you make are better, make some and start your own thread about them.

Thanks.

[Mikko Sandt]

but if you have criticism for them feel free to say something constructive without the wannabe elitist "oh, I can make that in 10 minutes and my maps are so much better" bullshit.

In every point I have made so far I have first specified what's wrong and then offered a solution. If you don't consider this constructive, I can't help you.

And, as I already said, that "my maps are better" was a reply to someone's post which accused me of being jealous. Also, I mentioned this only once and only as a reply to that one particular post. That was five months ago. It has nothing to do with the recent discussion.

It doesn't say anywhere in the forum rules that you have to accept criticism and put it to use, does it?

Have I stated otherwise?

He explained his position very clearly actually. You were saying in effect "You're doing it wrong" when he was not doing it wrong. He just didnt do it the way you would. That's his choice, you don't have to play it. and if you want to review the map and call it crap, thats your choice to.

It is only your opinion that the design is subpar, it is not a fact. It's his choice, not yours. Thats all im saying.

How do you feel about detailing, lighting and trimwork in that screenshot?

[Forge]

How do you feel about detailing, lighting and trimwork in that screenshot?
There was detailing, lighting, and trimwork in that screenshot?

You were absolutely right with your assessment of his work, but you were also pretty aggressive and relentless with proving your point. But hey, he accused you of being biased and overly critical. You told him his texturing and trimming were modest and he went off the deep end.

[Curtis Tuckfield]

My gratitude for those of you who decided to express the need to calm down about this ridiculous adversarial nonsense. I thought it rather strange to focus on the two screenshots that were more average and displayed less of the potential of what I was doing as if they were the purest example of my TC. No one had anything bad to say about all the OTHER screens. This isn't like sports. Artistic expression is not about competition but about creativity. It's not about you against me or my team against yours. I felt the vibe here plummet to having a real 8th grade mentality, and so I simply chose not to come here for awhile. Plus we're recording an album right now and I've been too busy to deal with: "Oh, you chose the color blue? That was wrong. Here is what you should have done, had you been intelligent enough to know the difference between right and wrong. See, now it's red. Red is obviously the CORRECT color." I'm sorry but there are no rules to art. You can't just say that making everything look like Quake is the CORRECT way to go about this. That's why I like art. There's no need for competition. True artists should embrace each other, rather than fight. It's this same kind of pointless ego based adversarial mentality which causes all war, prejudice and hatred. Completely unnecessary and in 2009 quite outdated. I think we can do better than that. Mikko, you are a good level maker and artist. Not quite what I'd make but that's fine because if there were only one way to make art, art would be boring. Now can we stop talking about the ONE screen that didn't totally show off what I was doing with lighting and such? For the record, the reason that there wasn't a bunch of shaded sectors and that kind of bright then dim then dark lighting was because the light source was one which EQUALLY lit the room. Two bright lights in a small room do not make the kind of lighting effects that I was being criticized for not having in that screen. If you want to see more elaborate lighting and design, then look at all the OTHER screens and stop acting like that one screen is my magnum opus. Look for good things in life, not bad things. If you look for only bad things, they will make you miserable and you will go crazy. Now let's all be friendly and respectful to each other. Peace.

[soulmate]

uhm..I hate to ask this but what does TC stand for? Total Conversion :D ?

[Reaper]

As an outside opinion, I believe Mikko's criticisms are valid. I'd suggest just suggest not reading them if it's going to anger you, Curtis. I mean, how much time have you wasted going on rants in this thread compared to how much you could have devoted to making maps? Don't take anything I said to heart either, I don't care what you do with your life, I just like being helpful (the same could be said of Mikko, but his drive to prove a point hasn't really helped).

[Mikko Sandt]

I'm sorry but there are no rules to art.

You're not seriously trying to justify subpar design by coming up with nonsense like that?

Why don't we then get rid of all game review sites and magazines (not to mention movie reviews, album reviews and so on)? By your logic, there is nothing wrong with any game, movie or album. Since there is nothing wrong with any game, there is simply no need for criticism of any kind. In other words; what do you want exactly? That we should immediately refrain from posting any criticism concerning anyone's work?

There's no need for competition.

This is nothing but a strawman argument. No one has talked about competition but you. When I make maps, I don't intend to compete with anyone except myself. I want to improve my skills. After playing maps made by others and listening to criticism about my work I can see better why and how my old levels suck. Criticism is an essential part of growing up.

True artists should embrace each other, rather than fight.

I tried to help and you immediately took it personally and started accusing me of stalking you. This is nothing but a textbook example of a Freudian projection.

If you want to see more elaborate lighting and design, then look at all the OTHER screens and stop acting like that one screen is my magnum opus.

As I suggested earlier, the more high quality Redneck Rampage textures may compensate for average detailing and lighting. I'd have to play the map to know more.

[gungriffon geona]

massive gargling noises

this was the appropriate response of the rabid dog not capable of understanding someone wishes to be left alone.

[Mateos]

Critic is bad when it advance nothing. He works like he wants to work, you aren't his boss, he has his own life.

[Jblade]

Critic is bad when it advance nothing. He works like he wants to work, you aren't his boss, he has his own life.
Mikko hasn't told him what to do or how to live his life anywhere :confused: He's offered criticism yes but you don't have to attach a disclaimer to every post saying "take this as you will", you do that yourself.

[Mikko Sandt]

this was the appropriate response of the rabid dog not capable of understanding someone wishes to be left alone.

Why don't you either start contributing or go back to the bushes where you came from?

[gungriffon geona]

The message of Deviantarts worldwide.

as though it's fun watching you run on and on with this massive vendetta? One doesn't need to contribute to see the fact of the matter. You're better at making stuff, big deal. go sit in your corner and stop shoving your fat disgusting weight around. you'll do everyone a favor that way.

[The Commander]

Ok, I think EVERYONE should cut the crap NOW.

[Mikko Sandt]

as though it's fun watching you run on and on with this massive vendetta?

What makes you think this is a vendetta? Curtis made a few points in his previous post; if he wanted to be left alone as you suggest, he wouldn't have made any. Why wouldn't I reply?

You're better at making stuff, big deal.

Strawman.

Edit: The compulsory peacemakers should stay out and let the subject "resolve itself based on its own momentum."

[gungriffon geona]

What makes you think this is a vendetta? Curtis made a few points in his previous post; if he wanted to be left alone as you suggest, he wouldn't have made any. Why wouldn't I reply?

a troll's sense of justice is if they aren't getting anything back then obviously they are wasting their time.
Not that you're a troll, though, are you now?

Strawman.

I don't get how that's relevant here. Are you saying you aren't actually good at making stuff?

[Mikko Sandt]

a troll's sense of justice is if they aren't getting anything back then obviously they are wasting their time.
Not that you're a troll, though, are you now?

Since you're not really a part of this discussion in any relevant way, just shouting from the bushes, the terms applies to you more than it applies to anyone else. Your first post concerning me was an ad hominem attack. You have brought nothing relevant to this discussion.

I don't get how that's relevant here. Are you saying you aren't actually good at making stuff?

That me being better never was an issue. I never presented it as an argument against Curtis. The issue has been brought up by people with reading comprehension skills.

[Steve]

This argument is more interesting than the actual map at hand.

[The Commander]

The argument at hand has gone on long enough, both Mikko and gungriffon geona don't know when to stop posting crap that no one cares about. TAKE IT TO PM.

[DeeperThought]

This argument is more interesting than the actual map at hand.

There's no need to insult the map...


Speaking of which, how is progress going?

[HangNail]

How are things going with this Project?

[Steve]

There's no need to insult the map...

I didn't. My point was that people here were more interested in the argument rather than the map. I should have put a simlie there ;)

[Nimoy]

This is funny. Mikko is right, sure.

[Echoperson]

Hey all. This is Shane from Curtis' band "The Grimpths." (www.thegrimpths.com (http://www.thegrimpths.com)) I'm here to let you know that Curtis is working very hard on his T.C. And he's doing it for himself because he likes doing it. Be thankful he's sharing it at all. Let's have some peace and love now in the world of Duke!
But there is a delay. Our band is currently spending most of our free time rehearsing to prepare for the release of our new EP "Seed." It should be done in April and then Curtis will probably get back to work on the TC. It looks fantastic, by the way.

[Mateos]

Cool. Mikko will be happy (I hope).

Oh, I'll visit Planet Duke, some time I haven't go on :)

[gungriffon geona]

You should totally use a midi of that 'I'm coming up' song on the band's page for one of the levels. it's quite bril. :O

[Curtis Tuckfield]

Mikko if I bother you this much why not just completely avoid this thread and everything related to my TC? You seem to spend more time thinking about this than anyone else in the world, including me. I hate the thought of you lying in bed late at night tossing and turning, thinking of some way to prove to the world that you are a great level designer and that I'm just the worst. I mean, why do you care so much? There are more important things in life than this you know. What is it that you want from me anyway? Do you want me to say that your way of making everything look more like Quake is the right way? Forgive me but your criticisms are ridiculous in my opinion. It's like you're just taking this big red stamp that says "WRONG" and stamping it on everything. How would you respond if I took one of your screen shots, said it was WRONG and then made it MY way and then said "CORRECT"? Would you thank me for the helpful advice? I think you may just be a troll who has an unquenchable thirst for adversarial encounters. You may have a right to criticize me, but I don't have to agree with you. Are you just trying to make this so unpleasant that I lose interest and don't release anything? Man, all this over one little screen shot. The problem here is that you believe that you know for a fact that your way is right and mine is wrong, and that mentality is based entirely in ego. It's the same "me versus you" mentality that on a larger scale causes so much war and suffering all over the world today. Get over it, it's part of a negativity that humanity could do without. You've made your point clear and so have I, so drop it now.

[DeeperThought]

Mikko if I bother you this much why not just completely avoid this thread and everything related to my TC? You seem to spend more time thinking about this than anyone else in the world, including me. I hate the thought of you lying in bed late at night tossing and turning, thinking of some way to prove to the world that you are a great level designer and that I'm just the worst. I mean, why do you care so much? There are more important things in life than this you know. What is it that you want from me anyway? Do you want me to say that your way of making everything look more like Quake is the right way? Forgive me but your criticisms are ridiculous in my opinion. It's like you're just taking this big red stamp that says "WRONG" and stamping it on everything. How would you respond if I took one of your screen shots, said it was WRONG and then made it MY way and then said "CORRECT"? Would you thank me for the helpful advice? I think you may just be a troll who has an unquenchable thirst for adversarial encounters. You may have a right to criticize me, but I don't have to agree with you. Are you just trying to make this so unpleasant that I lose interest and don't release anything? Man, all this over one little screen shot. The problem here is that you believe that you know for a fact that your way is right and mine is wrong, and that mentality is based entirely in ego. It's the same "me versus you" mentality that on a larger scale causes so much war and suffering all over the world today. Get over it, it's part of a negativity that humanity could do without. You've made your point clear and so have I, so drop it now.

Mikko hasn't posted in this thread for over three weeks. Why do you choose to continue your tirade against him instead of talking about your TC?

[Mateos]

Mikko hasn't posted in this thread for over three weeks. Why do you choose to continue your tirade against him instead of talking about your TC?

Yep. The next post is reserved for Curt now :)

We know that you have few time, that you are making an album, your friends come here to say this, etc etc ... but what 'bout your TC ? You need help ?

[Forge]

You need help ?

He needs help. Probably not the kind anybody here is licensed to give though.

[supergoofy]

He needs help. Probably not the kind anybody here is licensed to give though.

In the way you write it, it means he is crazy and he needs psychological help

This is an insult and the admins/moderators should take action.

But if you don't mean it that way, edit your post as soon as possible.

[edit]
Do you know how many TCs/MODs were staled or discontinued? I never saw that kind of negativity like this against Curtis Tuckfield. Why? We are here to enjoy playing Duke3D, and not to tolerate that childish behavior of jealousy (I don't know how should I call it).

[Mikko Sandt]

You seem to spend more time thinking about this than anyone else in the world, including me.

What makes you think I think about this at all except when writing a post?

What is it that you want from me anyway?

I expect you to react to criticism like a rational human being, not like some overemotional teenage girl.

Forgive me but your criticisms are ridiculous in my opinion.

In what respect was I wrong? About lighting? About texturing? About detailing?

How would you respond if I took one of your screen shots, said it was WRONG and then made it MY way and then said "CORRECT"?

Why would I mind? We'd then discuss the points you made, not about your motivations.

Man, all this over one little screen shot.

Tell me about it. We could have had a civilized discussion but you decided to go nuts.

The problem here is that you believe that you know for a fact that your way is right and mine is wrong, and that mentality is based entirely in ego. It's the same "me versus you" mentality that on a larger scale causes so much war and suffering all over the world today. Get over it, it's part of a negativity that humanity could do without.

:doh:

[Cyrix]

Awesome screens CT, I'm definitely looking forward to playing your TC. Looks great. :)

[moggimus]

Oh for crap's sake. The back-and-forth of this argument is ridiculous. It's like a college professor(no ego boost intended) trying to teach physics to an 8 year old kid. Mikko responds to Curtis in a clear and concise manner while he reacts like an emo teenager. We know how Mikko can be, but christ Curtis you could be a bit more mature about it.

FFS though, reading your posts gives me a headache. You claim to be an author who's written several 500-page books but it seems you haven't grasped the concept of paragraphs. Give it a try, your posts hurt my eyes.

Now, that said, I am looking forward to playing your finished product. While I don't think Mikko's suggestions were invalid and he can be a bit adamant about them, it doesn't mean you have to consider them at all and you certainly don't have to take it as a personal attack on your way of "creating art". If you like your map the way it is, then keep it that way, and there's nothing that says you have to listen or respond to anyone's criticism, but you certainly shouldn't expect not to get any either.

[Nimoy]

If only the rest of the Duke Community could get that through their noggins.

[Cyrix]

So when will see more screenshots? I'm practically drooling over here!! *hides*

(I'm a little crazy today >_<)

[Curtis Tuckfield]

I hope this is the end of anyone unjustly criticizing me for one screen shot that appears more normal when compared to the others. If not, whatever. There are plenty of people who actually see that I may actually be creative and talented enough to be considered a good level builder. I'm not the kind of person who tries to get constant attention via any avenue possible, I'm just a guy who has spent thousands of hours in the past making colorful artificial environments and experiences and trying to see how far the fundamental build technology could be pushed when it comes to levels and lighting and architecture and such. I am notorious for making a lot of things which take a really long time, in most cases ten years, which is exactly how long it's been since I started working on this project. People who try to do their own thing are often unjustly ridiculed and alienated, but that's a big part of what drives them. My album "SEED" just came out and is also the product of exactly 10 years, although no one has had any reason to criticize it. I don't know why these arguments and occasional attacks have happened, but if people want this, they can have it. I'm working on it again. It's about 99 percent complete. But remember, this TC is about levels and environments, not amazing new weapons, enemies and programming. When it comes out, feel free to mod it with whatever you want. It's going to be considered forever unfinished because my original idea for episode two would have been twice as long and I just don't have another 5 to 10 thousand hours to spend on it. It will be like a joke because it's the finished unfinished TC. It will most likely be called the 2009 TC, the Ten Year TC, or maybe even Duke Nukem Forever (hehe) because it's the kind of thing that I've always said will be done when it's done, then given a date, then delayed it again (that title may or may not be a joke, I haven't decided yet). And if you want to donate a weapon or help with the title art or something, let me know because I can do every right brained thing except draw. No one has ever helped me with the TC. Maybe someone will lend a tiny hand for something like that, or maybe I'll just do everything. So stay tuned. And BTW, if you want to help me out or check out my other stuff, cruise on over to http://www.thegrimpths.com because The Grimpths just released "SEED", which was recorded and produced by Matt Winegar, the guy who recorded and produced many well known recordings including the first two Primus albums. You can listen to the album there. It may give you a good idea of what kind of artist I am. It's experimental progressive thrash funk punk classical jazz video game barbershop 60s meets 70s meets 90s good original sticky hydroponic psychedelic metal rock music stuff. It's good so take a free listen. Sorry about the length of this message but that's just how I roll.
Peace - Curtis Tuckfield

[The Commander]

Does your keyboard have a "return" key by any chance?
It took me forever to try and read that due to horrible formatting.

[Curtis Tuckfield]

Does anyone know how to get build to work on Dosbox with Windows 7?

[The Commander]

Pretty sure everyone uses Mapster32 now when they are mapping, especially on the modern systems.

[Sang]

Woah, awesome thread, wish I would have found it sooner but I guess now there's not really a point in bringing stuff up...




But what the hell, I can't resist - Your work certainly does need the things Mikko suggested (more details, trimming and better lighting). Yes it's true that his hi-tech facility looks generic but yours looks, quite frankly, shitty. Generic is better than shitty in my opinion.

By the way, any hi-tech room is going to look generic because they've been done a thousand times before. If you don't want to make generic looking things then build something that doesn't look generic, like your shots using Redneck Rampage textures.

Also I fear that combining an area with Duke3D textures with an area using RR textures is going to look schizophrenic, after all there is a clear difference in quality between textures from the two games. I suggest that even if you are going to put in a generic-by-default hi-tech facility you should also use Redneck Rampage textures for that.

[gambini]

Generic is better than shitty in my opinion.

lolol

(the forum didnt allow me to put just ¨lol¨ because the message was too short)

[Curtis Tuckfield]

Yeah, you're right. I suck. Please teach me guys. Show me better. Teach the novice know-nothing. Please teach me master. What am I doing wrong??


http://c2.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/56/l_96edce0aab3ccb357c6a6129267b4a69.jpg
http://c4.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/58/l_47a6522a8196ed622c2410f0d4b744bb.jpg
http://c4.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/61/l_2e717fa1cc7b8a5f23dcf2916d92913b.jpg
http://c4.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/74/l_cd797c5383bce80b277bbfbca8448d17.jpg
http://c1.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/14/l_4bdc6776f146c9eb660d3a0077e9aa7c.jpg
http://c2.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/93/l_52b784d443774f67c833ffda223f32e5.jpg

[Sang]

I'm not gonna teach you anything apart from the fact that acting like a little whiny kid isn't a good thing.

You had set high expectations but failed to deliver, it happens, get over it and move on (preferably by improving your skills).

You're not an artist, your screens are not art.

[Curtis Tuckfield]

You Sang are a belligerent troll who takes his problems out on others because you're the nerdiest most unpopular virgin in your school. You see there are three kinds of people on this forum, on all forums. There are the trolls, the people who take whatever side is most popular at the time, and the human beings. Congratulations to anyone who is still enough of a human being to be a decent and mature. Civility is being lost partly because of angry selfish people like this. You Sang and all the rest of them are like 14 year old bullies who are actually just frightened and weak on the inside. You don't think this is art? Architecture, color, music, textures? If that's not art, then what is? Do you think that music is art? Do you think writing is art? YOU don't understand what art even is! It's an expression, period, and that's what this is. But why should I care? Your a miserable TROLL, and a child at that. Why should I listen to a belligerent child? I really feel bad for all you trolls out there. Pretty pathetic way of going through life. Honestly, grow up.
http://images.starcraftmazter.net/4chan/for_forums/obvious_troll.jpg

[Sang]

Hahahaha that's just ridiculous. I have a different opinion, I must be a troll. Well, have fun closing your ears and listening to the eternal bootlickers and hoping that overtime your level design skills will improve automatically.

hint: If you want to find a troll you need to look only in a mirror.

[The Commander]

Yes, Sang may seem like a troll but his criticism is 99.9% of the time good honest criticism which should be listened to.
I receive it all the time but there is no way in hell I respond like the way you are which is like a little whiny kid.

Oh and you still can't find that "Return" key on your keyboard?

[eddym4814]

Why don't you all just STFU?

@ Sang: You're an instigator. You may not have been a true troll in this thread but you're close to it.

@ Commander: You've been a real troll in the past in other threads. You calmed down but seem to be back at it again.

@ Curtis: Read your earlier posts in this thread. You sound like a stoned Moses promising to bestow the Ten Commands/Holy Grail upon us lesser mortals. What did you expect would happen after posting BS like that?

Why don't you all just get over it and move on? If Curtis releases his mod fine. Some of us are looking forward to it. If he doesn't thats fine too.

[Sang]

Why don't you all just STFU?

Because the person getting criticized is someone who seems to have an attitude problem and attempts personal attacks that are irrelevant to an otherwise perfectly acceptable discussion. I, for one, happen to think that's not okay and if there's something I disagree with an can argue about, I will.

You're an instigator. You may not have been a true troll in this thread but you're close to it.

I offered my opinion. It was the same opinion as others have said, I was hoping Curtis knew the saying "Where there's smoke, there's fire". Guess not.

Frankly I don't think "Maps are an artform, Curtis can do whatever he pleases" is the right answer. It's more like this: "Curtis is pretty much insulting anyone who has maps with better design by calling his shitty stuff art and tries to insult those who dare criticize his holy relic even more".

Yes so his shots using Redneck Rampage textures look fine. As Mikko suggested, they look fine because of the textures, not because of an apparently bar-raising design. I guess I could dissect his RR texture shots and point out what's wrong with them or why they are unimpressive but I'm sure it'll fall on deaf ears. That said, maybe I'll do that tomorrow ;)

Also eddy, why are you calling me an instigator and telling us to STFU then proceed to offer your not really very flattering opinion on Curtis? It's really hypocritical.

[Mikko Sandt]

I hope this is the end of anyone unjustly criticizing me for one screen shot

I justified my criticism with evidence. You're apparently unaware of the proper use of the term unjust.

There are plenty of people who actually see that I may actually be creative and talented enough to be considered a good level builder. I'm not the kind of person who tries to get constant attention via any avenue possible, I'm just a guy who has spent thousands of hours in the past making colorful artificial environments and experiences and trying to see how far the fundamental build technology could be pushed when it comes to levels and lighting and architecture and such.

Jesus, what is the matter with you? You're constantly setting up strawmen arguments. You're extremely sensitive to negative criticism. Why? Your self-esteem is not at a healthy level if you go apeshit over a single piece of well justified criticism.

People who try to do their own thing are often unjustly ridiculed and alienated, but that's a big part of what drives them.

Oh, so now you're just this misunderstood artist? Why are you constantly victimizing yourself?

I have mostly criticized your extremely immature behavior, not your levels. Your posts indicate that you suffer from some serious psychological problems, since the defense mechanisms you're putting on are not normal human behavior.

You're not an artist, your screens are not art.

I'd say every mapper is an artist of some degree.

[eddym4814]

Sang:

Also eddy, why are you calling me an instigator and telling us to STFU then proceed to offer your not really very flattering opinion on Curtis? It's really hypocritical.

I apologize for the first sentence of that post. I was tired of getting notified of new posts in this thread only to read the same negative back and forth attacks lately. It was not aimed at you only but everyone involved in it. Curtis make statements to the effect that his mod with be the best ever made. Other people took issue with that and that is understandable. But to keep this going this long is irritating. I should have unsubscribed to this thread before this. I guess I was hoping it was over and when I came to this thread earlier and saw the SOS I wanted to vent. Sorry if I hurt anyones feelings and this will be the last post I make about this discussion.

[William Gee]

There are lots of positive feedback on the first few pages, cause those early screenshots rock.

The new Hightech screenshots don't though, IMO they look bad, and of cause people will tell you if they do when you post them on a public forum.

[Curtis Tuckfield]

A lot of you seem to keep going on and on about how I'm such a whiny immature little kid. Uh, have you been listening to yourselves at all? I simply said that my levels had more time and detail in them than anything I've ever seen using Build. No one has been able to produce anything that has said otherwise. So a bunch of people get really excited, and a bunch of people get really mad. You say things like "MY MAPS are CLEARLY BETTER." and "This is the CORRECT way to do it." and YOU'RE WRONG!" and "You can't do that." and "You're a terrible level maker." and "That's not art. You're not an artist. You're a failure."
This is what you consider constructive criticism? This is honest unbiased feedback? You're mature and I'm not?
I've only defended myself. You've whined. YOU'VE instigated. None of you would say these kinds of things to my face. But if you're in another country or something, it suddenly becomes OK to be belligerent.
If you hate me and what I'm doing then DON'T COME ON THIS THREAD AND DON'T DOWNLOAD MY TC WHEN IT COMES OUT!
And once again, just because one of the screen shots is more simple than the others doesn't mean it sucks. It's a simple room. It has bright lights. It has some security screens and computers and a couch. That's it. That's what it is. The Gold Room bathrooms in Bryant Arnett's Redrum TC are simple. They only use 2 colors - red and white. There is no shading because it is a bright room. That's how the physics of lighting works. It's one room that looks more normal that the others and uses different art. So what?
And you're going to blast the other screen shots? You want to say that I'm using Redneck Rampage art to cheat? To cover up something so horribly amateur? You guys are just trying, trying SO HARD to come up with any kind of excuse to attack me. Some artists you are.
What if you spent a long time making a painting? Then someone comes up to you and says "Can I give you some constructive criticism? You're terrible. You're a fraud. You're not an artist. You're a failure."
How would you respond?

[DeeperThought]

I simply said that my levels had more time and detail in them than anything I've ever seen using Build. No one has been able to produce anything that has said otherwise.

You need to see more of what has been done with Build in the last ten years. What you don't seem to realize is that you showed disrespect to other mappers by coming out and declaring that you were raising the bar on level design. Most of your screenshots look pretty good to me, but I've seen better and more detailed maps. That's not a personal attack, it's just a fact. If people (other than Mikko) haven't gone out of their way to show you better stuff, it's because they have more important things to do than get yelled at and called names. But believe me, you are definitely not raising the bar on level design or producing anything even close to the level of detail that exists in some released Duke maps. That doesn't mean your maps aren't good.

[Curtis Tuckfield]

I've seen plenty of people raising the bar by enhancing the programming of the game, adding fog, dynamic lighting, things like that, which is cool, but that's all I've seen. It's amazing how people act so threatened by this project.
So where are these Build levels that are so amazing and detailed?

[DeeperThought]

I've seen plenty of people raising the bar by enhancing the programming of the game, adding fog, dynamic lighting, things like that, which is cool, but that's all I've seen. It's amazing how people act so threatened by this project.
So where are these Build levels that are so amazing and detailed?

http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/2932/capt0003.jpg
http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/8110/capt0005.jpg
http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/8716/capt0006.jpg
http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/5678/capt0001.jpg

There is no shortage of examples of nicely designed and detailed Build maps. The shots above are from some maps in the ROCH series, which were made using the Original Build editor and original Duke textures about 8 years ago.

[Sang]

I'd reply to that previous long post but clearly there is no point to it.

[Forge]

http://img.sparknotes.com/content/sparklife/sparktalk/instructoart_cuckoo.gif

[Sang]

Following DT's example I'm also going to post a few shots from impressive looking maps (for whatever reason, it can be shading, architecture, trimming, colour usage,...) from various mappers. Not because Curtis should copy these examples, they just show how proper design makes stuff look miles better.

[gambini]

Eh, Calm Down Curtis! you overreacted at me because i loled about what Sang said. But i just found his sentence funny regardless your maps, (even without putting too much attention to them).

However, i think because what i have read and seen here that you´re unable to see the truth right on your face. MANY of the comments posted here seem to be reasonable opinions, even more the ones that laught at your ¨raisng the bar¨ crazy thought.

[Mikko Sandt]

As I suggested in my previous post, I really would like to get into what causes your behavior. This is because I and many others who have posted in this thread have spent years commenting maps and yet you're one of maybe a handful of individuals who have gone apeshit over a simple, justified piece of criticism.
As Eddy suggested, it may be simply a case of poorly-founded arrogance. You consider yourself a much better artist than the rest of us (as you said) and as such you don't tolerate the opinions of us mere mortals. Arrogance in itself is a good quality but only when it is based on actual abilities. Your behavior suggests that your arrogance is extremely poorly-founded, based only on your delusions.

I simply said that my levels had more time and detail in them than anything I've ever seen using Build. No one has been able to produce anything that has said otherwise.

The burden of proof falls on you. 1999 TC clearly wasn't groundbreaking even though it had its moments. After that we haven't seen anything from you.

As other have said, there are plenty of excellent maps out there. They're available to public so it's only your fault that you haven't tried them.

You say things like "MY MAPS are CLEARLY BETTER." and "This is the CORRECT way to do it." and YOU'RE WRONG!" and "You can't do that." and "You're a terrible level maker." and "That's not art. You're not an artist. You're a failure."

This is what you consider constructive criticism?

What I said was constructive: I couldn't have been more specific about the flaws of your work. You're again turning my arguments into caricatures and setting up strawmen.

None of you would say these kinds of things to my face.

What makes you think that?

If you hate me and what I'm doing then DON'T COME ON THIS THREAD AND DON'T DOWNLOAD MY TC WHEN IT COMES OUT!

Another strawman.

The amount of people who've expressed their hatred either of you or your work: 0.

And once again, just because one of the screen shots is more simple than the others doesn't mean it sucks. It's a simple room. It has bright lights. It has some security screens and computers and a couch. That's it. That's what it is. The Gold Room bathrooms in Bryant Arnett's Redrum TC are simple. They only use 2 colors - red and white. There is no shading because it is a bright room.

I agree. Simple can look good. This, however, wasn't the case with the screenshot you posted.

[Steve]

Funny, when I was designing maps I never really liked hearing about the good stuff or what I go correct. I was interested in what people hated in my designs. People have said many times that "ZOMG X AREA SUX" - I liked that.

[The Commander]

Funny, when I was designing maps I never really liked hearing about the good stuff or what I go correct. I was interested in what people hated in my designs. People have said many times that "ZOMG X AREA SUX" - I liked that.

Why don't you get back into the game Steve and pull that map out of your ass and finish it. Then show Curtis what a good map looks like. ;)

[Steve]

Why don't you get back into the game Steve and pull that map out of your ass and finish it. Then show Curtis what a good map looks like. ;)

My last design sucked balls my man.

[Sang]

I dunno Steve, I remember some shots and they looked pretty good.

[The Commander]

I dunno Steve, I remember some shots and they looked pretty good.

Yup they were.

Not really a month but there's some new screenies:

I've redesigned a room which I think looks much better now. :)

http://img392.imageshack.us/img392/1782/ccity1bu7.th.jpg (http://img392.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ccity1bu7.jpg) http://img224.imageshack.us/img224/4065/ccity2cy9.th.jpg (http://img224.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ccity2cy9.jpg)
http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/8949/ccity3br9.th.jpg (http://img88.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ccity3br9.jpg) http://img392.imageshack.us/img392/6844/ccity5zv1.th.jpg (http://img392.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ccity5zv1.jpg)
http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/2892/ccity6he1.th.jpg (http://img88.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ccity6he1.jpg) http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/7594/ccity7qz6.th.jpg (http://img88.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ccity7qz6.jpg)
http://img224.imageshack.us/img224/7864/ccity4th1.th.jpg (http://img224.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ccity4th1.jpg)

[Sang]

They don't look perfect, like Curtis' shots, but guess what! It has nice trimming, shading and spritework to make up for the not always great texture choices.

Christ I think a normal person would have gotten the point of our criticism by now.

[Steve]

to make up for the not always great texture choices.


See. Criticism. It's a damn good thing IMO.

[The Commander]

I thought you made good use of the textures available in the Duke tile set myself.

[Curtis Tuckfield]

I think all of those screen shots you guys posted are fantastic. They are premium and they are art. It's ALL art.
I don't have a problem with constructive criticism as long as it doesn't contain belligerence. You guys offered criticism but to me it seems that a lot of you were just going out of your way to criticize it and not listening to any of my explanations. If I criticized your screen shots and then said something like "Mine is clearly right and yours is clearly wrong." I'm pretty confident that you wouldn't take it as constructive criticism, but as attack.
I hang out with a bunch of people, all artists, who are always nice and would never deliver criticism in such a way. So to me "You're not an artist" sounds belligerent. After this, I'm not going to say anything else to defending myself, but in my opinion, you guys should spend more time recognizing individual style and original expression than you do blasting other people's projects who you haven't even played.
You can criticize the 1999 TC. I never said it was perfect. I was just a kid when I made it and new to Build. It was just how I learned to really build and now it's being enhanced.
I really hope none of you are negatively judging my work just because it isn't filled with Quake and Unreal type space stations. That's cool and I like those levels but I just feel like I want to do something different than that.
I don't believe that you can't put a FACT sticker on art. Art is about perspective. Some people hate Frank Zappa and others are brought to tears by his music. If you criticize an artist and label them as INCORRECT or as breaking the rules, it may just be because you don't understand the artist or the unlimited extent of art. So let's just drop this because it's going nowhere. I think it's groundbreaking, and so do a lot of other people. And even if you think a local band you go see sucks, that doesn't mean you should go and ridicule them after the show. There are no rules, no right and wrong when it comes to art. That's why it is so personal. Now let's all just try to be groundbreaking and supportive and we'll all be a lot happier.

---------- Post added at 05:51 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:49 PM ----------

Oh and BTW I'm not a troll. A troll would go out of their way to overly and needlessly criticize someone's personal expression. I've never criticized your work. Why should I?

[Sang]

A nice attempt at soothing the masses but you're still completely missing the point. Seeing as you like to compare maps to paintings and music..

Would you call a painting with nothing more than a green stripe on it art? How about a song with out-of-key drumming, falsely tuned guitars and bad vocals?

I'm sure that any artist worth a f*ck will tell you that skill and the proof of it are part of the act. Anyone can draw a green stripe or sing badly.

[Nimoy]

This shit is hilarious.

[Curtis Tuckfield]

Depends on if you're talking about the kind of art that is limited or unlimited, which has a lot to do with whether you have a limited or unlimited mind. You're is obviously VERY limited.
I'm sorry but if you can't see what a map has to do with an art form such as painting or music, then you're 17. That's you're problem. A map IS an interactive 3D painting with music!
And as far as whether dissonant possibly "out of tune" music can actually be art, there are people who use dissonance and consonance and noise experimentation and they're considered the MOST serious artists in the world. They may not be the most understood, but they are the most artistic. They are modern classical and jazz composers, AVANT GUARD composers like The Residents, Edgar Varese, Igor Stravinsky, Snakefinger and Primus. Even the Beatles and Led Zeppelin used elements of psychedelic, experimental musical chaos and dissonance. And there's Dadaism and Surrealism. That's not art?
Think of what Salvador Dali would sound like as a song.
Also the Tibetan Buddhist monks compose complex meditative music using out of tune notes and strange rhythms. David Lynch does what you speak of visually AND with music. Tell a painter, a composer, a sculptor, a filmmaker, tell anyone like that what you just told me and watch them look down upon someone who is completely ignorant about art.
The art which is the purest would fly right pass someone like you because you're not smart enough to perceive it.
And is a green line art? Yes. Does it move me? Probably not. But it moves someone. A green line probably would not be taken as seriously by serious artists as something by Michelangelo would be, but there is a vast chunk of the understanding of art out there that you just are not mature, open, or intelligent enough to understand right now. Maybe in 5 to 10 years, but obviously not now. If you think art is only a normal painting or a normal song, something you could understand, something that you don't have to think or be even the slightest bit open about, then you shouldn't be arguing with someone like me because you're just making an ass out of yourself. There are a lot more people reading this than just the few of you who attack everything I do. They'll read the stuff you said about not being able to claim that maps are art just like paintings and music and then they'll laugh. Come back and talk about art in a couple of years.

[gambini]

Sorry i would not take part on this, but the bullshit you´re arguing just to justify your point is just pathetic.

you shouldn't be arguing with someone like me because you're just making an ass out of yourself.

No, you can´t be serious about this.
and... You´re somehow comparing yourself with artists as Dali and Michelangelo?

[Forge]

Schizophrenia (pronounced /ˌskɪtsɵˈfrɛniə/ or /ˌskɪtsɵˈfriːniə/), from the Greek roots skhizein (σχίζειν, "to split") and phrēn, phren- (φρήν, φρεν-; "mind") is a psychiatric diagnosis that describes a mental disorder characterized by abnormalities in the perception or expression of reality. Distortions in perception may affect all five senses, including sight, hearing, taste, smell and touch, but most commonly manifest as auditory hallucinations, paranoid or bizarre delusions, or disorganized speech and thinking with significant social or occupational dysfunction.

[Sang]

Depends on if you're talking about the kind of art that is limited or unlimited, which has a lot to do with whether you have a limited or unlimited mind.

So there's limited art and unlimited art? Care to define these two terms so maybe you'd make more sense in the eyes of this apparently barbaric idiotic 17-year-old?

Even the Beatles and Led Zeppelin used elements of psychedelic, experimental musical chaos and dissonance. And there's Dadaism and Surrealism. That's not art?

The Beatles, Led Zeppelin, Black Sabbath, Pink Floyd,... did use those elements but that has nothing to do with my question. Those bands did not have songs that sounded out-of-key or had bad vocals. With bad vocals I mean bad vocals, with falsely tuned guitars I mean falsely tuned guitars. When I say those elements I don't actually mean "psychedelic elements". Psychedelic rock songs have differently tuned guitars but they don't sound bad.

Also Dadaism and Surrealism has nothing to do with my post, I asked you if you would consider a green stripe on a white background art. Surrealistic and Dadaistic paintings are, as I'm sure you know as an art expert, more than that.

Think of what Salvador Dali would sound like as a song.

I imagine the excellent Black Sabbath song "Planet Caravan".

Also the Tibetan Buddhist monks compose complex meditative music using out of tune notes and strange rhythms. David Lynch does what you speak of visually AND with music.

Really? Care to link us to some proof of that (I'm sure there are videos on YouTube)? I think you're again misunderstanding what I said in my previous post. "Strange rhytms" is not the same as "bad rhytms". You don't need to assume that I think bad is equal to strange or unusual. No, bad is just bad.

And is a green line art? Yes. Does it move me? Probably not. But it moves someone.

So the only requirement to call something art is that it has to move someone? Even if this someone is just one person, say the artist? Wouldn't that make a whole lot of "artists" by this definition elitary scumbags going all "Well, this green line represents all the bad things in the world today but you guys are just too dumb to understand my complex way of thinking"?

A green line probably would not be taken as seriously by serious artists as something by Michelangelo would be, but there is a vast chunk of the understanding of art out there that you just are not mature, open, or intelligent enough to understand right now.

It seems to be that your definition of art is "something personal that has to move someone". By this definition almost anything can be called art. I think that's an equally childish view, except in a different way. Masturbation is something personal and I'm pretty dang sure the person doing it will be moved by it. Does this mean masturbation is art, oh master?

If you think art is only a normal painting or a normal song, something you could understand, something that you don't have to think or be even the slightest bit open about

I don't, this is an illogical conclusion you've drawn because you misunderstood me. (maybe intentionally?)

There are a lot more people reading this than just the few of you who attack everything I do. They'll read the stuff you said about not being able to claim that maps are art just like paintings and music and then they'll laugh. Come back and talk about art in a couple of years.

I think I'll believe the word of experienced mappers more over the word of some guy who released a crappy TC 10 years ago. Kinda like how a professional painter's opinion is more valuable than a little kindergarten kid who draws stick figures. But I guess next you're going to say that everyone is equal and that opinions of 2-year-olds are also of the highest importance and that they, too, are capable of critical thinking.

[Forge]

this conversation is classic

http://www.emblibrary.com/EL/product_images/B1332.jpg

[GivingEverything]

Good gracious, this conversation is eating itself alive.

Seeing as you like to compare maps to paintings and music..

And why not? I find that there is an art to creating a nice-looking Duke Nukem 3D map, or any map in any game for that matter. After all, it takes a certain level of creativity to make something that looks and plays well. Perhaps the general audience appeal for one medium is not as great as it is for another, but that does not make either of them any less artistic.

Frankly, the dick flailing that is going on right now is sickening; neither of you are getting anywhere. I might even say that this is arguing for the sake of arguing. I don't care who instigated the argument or not, it's getting in the way of the original purpose of the thread.

[Sang]

I find that there is an art to creating a nice-looking Duke Nukem 3D map, or any map in any game for that matter

Well I can accept that opinion but you said it yourself: Nice-looking.

I'm not sure of Curtis' goals but I find the conversation interesting because we exchange ideas (even if the debate may seem heated but for me it really isn't).

To bring you up to speed:

Curtis appears to be of the opinion that as long as something is personal and moving (in an intellectual or an emotional way), it can be called art. This is by all means an acceptable opinion but I don't agree with it, which is why I'm trying to debate with him. Personally I think that there is also a minimal requirement of quality before something can be called "art". Apparently this makes me a barbaric, boneheaded, clichéd teen who isn't as enlightened as the big art experts of the world.

Who knows, maybe my/his thought pattern has holes in it which might be closed in this discussion. I can think of several holes - my opinion for example has one problem, which is.. who can really say what is good quality? Tastes are different, after all. Out of this follows my idea that it's acceptable for people to all have different ideas on what constitutes art. (but it's equally acceptable to discuss these different ideas)

A hole in Curtis' thought process is that he is advocating that everything is acceptable as long as it is personal and moving, yet does not seem to accept ideas that do not reflect his own. This is weird, because ideas sure as hell are personal and moving for the person who has them. Therefore, his theory really would suggest that not only is any idea acceptable, but any idea is also a form of art, no matter how stupid it may seem to anyone besides the person coming up with it.

etc etc, to be continued after further debating perhaps

I can understand that some people are annoyed that we're not talking about the level but this thread is about his project and as long as he wants to continue the conversation I don't see where the problem is.

[supergoofy]

this conversation is classic

http://www.emblibrary.com/EL/product_images/B1332.jpg

awesome photo :D:D

[DeeperThought]

Texturing & trimming in the three screenshots quoted by Nimoy seem a bit modest. As for the other shots, I'd guess the higher quality RR textures hide this problem a bit.

But what are you talking about with the texturing and trimming being a bit modest? This is Duke 3D 1.5 we are talking about, not Bioshock or something. This game is like 13 years old. You are always so quick to criticize me Mikko.

While Sang and Curtis are hotly debating the definition of "art", I'm going to point out that Curtis' claims about art are a complete departure from how he responded when criticism first surfaced. In the beginning, Curtis didn't say that he was being an avant guard artist, he claimed that he was excused by the fact that it's an old game engine, and "not Bioshock or something". Now that he's been shown some examples of what the engine can do, he can't use that defense, so he has retreated into a form of relativism (in this case the idea that you can't validly criticise art because the standards are in the eye of the beholder).

So rather than acknowedging some imperfections in his work and trying to fix them, he chooses to adopt positions that invalidate criticism. Those who persist in criticism, such as Mikko, are heaped with abuse, even if they try to be constructive (see the earlier exchanges between Curtis and Mikko).

[The Commander]

I made art.

http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/6573/shitart.jpg

[Sang]

Yes, that is a Dadaistic map that pokes fun at a certain idea. According to Curtis' definition of art, that shot undeniably qualifies as such.

[Steve]

I made art.

http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/6573/shitart.jpg

Oh man :D :D

[gambini]

well, this is too much. Maybe all we should stop this shit and leave the guy working with his project alone. By the way, this TC doesnt look like the worst ever, if he considers it as art, maybe is because he feels like he is doing art, so good for him. Creativity should be within reach of everybody, some ones are more talented, some others dont, but criticizing is easier than making.

However, the problem here seems to be how different things look from one or other point of view. Nobody is the truth´s owner, each one of us sees the reality from our own len, if he is not open to accept criticism and will put ANY argument to keep believing in how the things look for him, surely it is because he actually thinks that way. Maybe he is not skillfully enough to determine and understand that those suggestions people have been pointing out are good.

What if we wait and see how the TC is, when it´s already released, maybe it has good gameplay or whatever...

[DeeperThought]

well, this is too much. Maybe all we should stop this shit and leave the guy working with his project alone. By the way, this TC doesnt look like the worst ever, if he considers it as art, maybe is because he feels like he is doing art, so good for him. Creativity should be within reach of everybody, some ones are more talented, some others dont, but criticizing is easier than making.

However, the problem here seems to be how different things look from one or other point of view. Nobody is the truth´s owner, each one of us sees the reality from our own len, if he is not open to accept criticism and will put ANY argument to keep believing in how the things look for him, surely it is because he actually thinks that way. Maybe he is not skillfully enough to determine and understand that those suggestions people have been pointing out are good.

What if we wait and see how the TC is, when it´s already released, maybe it has good gameplay or whatever...

Bah, I see the same pattern repeating itself. Someone makes a valid criticism, he responds by deflecting and attacking the critic, then other people join in and some of them start being *******s (not me of course :D). Finally, someone (in this case you) tries to play the role of peacemaker. Look, he brought this on himself with his over-the-top reactions to what was originally some mild and constructive criticism.

What's odd is that somehow the petty controversy morphed into the idea that his maps are bad. They aren't bad, and in fact most of his screens look quite good. I don't know why you are saying "maybe it has good gameplay or whatever", as though it were understood that they look bad. There were only a few screenshots that people criticized.

He said it was 99% done it when it's released none of this will matter. If an episode by Sanek can get a fair shake (which it has), then Curtis has nothing to worry about. Whatever people have said in this crazy thread, the episode will be judged on its merits and nothing else.

[gambini]

I´m along with you on how he takes as personal any criticism, but my point is that now it has gone out of control, everybody is making a fool of him because the grandiose words he used to describe his work, what finally turned in a constant mockery on his whole project (from my point of view).

I myself would not go that further saying his screenshots look ¨good¨ because i agree with what people were pointing out (specially Msandt) But either it´s deserving of such a denigration.

[Mikko Sandt]

a lot of you were just going out of your way to criticize it and not listening to any of my explanations.

This is because your "explanations" have been strawman arguments and ad hominem attacks. You're not willing to discuss the point so we're not discussing it. For example, when I dared to say that some of your shots looked modest, you immediately accused me of having stalked you for years. Then you come up with stupid shit like "you wouldn't tell that to my face" (what the hell makes you think I wouldn't?).

I really hope none of you are negatively judging my work just because it isn't filled with Quake and Unreal type space stations. That's cool and I like those levels but I just feel like I want to do something different than that.

A textbook example of a strawman argument! Congratulations, moron!

There are no rules, no right and wrong when it comes to art.

By following this line of logic, there are neither bad games nor good games, just games and if this is so, all magazines and websites dedicated to reviewing stuff (including my own site) have no purpose except to infuriate the sensitive artist.

[TerminX]

This argument is still going on? Holy shit.

[Cyrix]

When are we going to see another update? Is this mod nearing completion anytime soon?

[LeoD]

This argument is still going on? Holy shit.

Unbelievable, indeed. I suppose it will even find its way to duke4.net sooner or later. :D

[Geoffrey]

I haven't been to 3dr in a while and this thread was an interesting surprise. I skimmed through it since I have no interest in reading the discussions (I purposively blocked out anything art-related since it'd only get me agitated) or any other gigantic posts (which for some reason always get quoted in the next post), but the screenshots looked quite nice in a retro-kind of way. I hope there's a release right around the corner, even if the overall theme looks a bit dated.