Philosophical Games

[Hyperactive Slob]

List games that have a heavy amount of Philosophy in them.
-Bioshock
This one is obvious as it contains a lot of Objectivist Ideals in it.
"I am Andrew Ryan, and I'm here to ask you a question. Is a man not entitled to the sweat of his brow? 'No!' says the man in Washington, 'It belongs to the poor.' 'No!' says the man in the Vatican, 'It belongs to God.' 'No!' says the man in Moscow, 'It belongs to everyone.' I rejected those answers; instead, I chose something different. I chose the impossible. I chose...Rapture, a city where the artist would not fear the censor, where the scientist would not be bound by petty morality, where the great would not be constrained by the small! And with the sweat of your brow, Rapture can become your city, as well."

-System Shock 2:
The main Philosophical element is about individuality vs. Unity.
"What is a drop of rain, compared to the storm? What is a thought, compared to a mind? Our unity is full of wonder, which your tiny individualism... cannot even conceive."

-Deus Ex
Has major philosophical elements like post modernism and political philosophy.
"The human being created civilization not because of willingness but of a need to be assimilated into higher orders of structure and meaning. God was a dream of good government."

-Planescape: Torment
Has Many philosophical elements like the nature of good, evil and neutrality but mainly about the question "What Can Change the nature of A Man."

There are more games but they don't come to my mind right now. Sorry for not going to in depth about the games though I'm tired now.

[Wamplet]

thief series.

through each game you have some good examples:

Thief 1: Rise of untamed Nature devouring technology
Thief 2: The fall of Nature makes way for the new dawn as the Mechanist HAMMARS take hold
Thief 3: Restoring the balance of the 2 previous factions

What i like is the books and notes you get to read through each game, detailing all of this.

[Dogy]

Assassin's Creed

See here: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0932936/quotes

[Scream]

There are more games but they don't come to my mind right now. Sorry for not going to in depth about the games though I'm tired now.


How is the fact that you are tired a spoiler? You think some people don't want to know you are tired? :)

[Monkey Butler]

I think maybe we should be clear on the difference between "philosophy" and "theme of the game". "The Fall of nature" isn't exactly a philosophy.

[Klaus Kinski]

Well, Thief does have some philosophical aspects. If you look at the factions you'll notice that they're pretty much extremists and during the course of the series you can see how their rise to power (in part one the Pagans, in part two the mechanists) endangers the city (society). Not only deals this with the conflict between nature and technology, it's also an allegory to our political, religious world. Think of it as hippies vs. fascists.
But there's more. Part two deals intensely with religious and political extremism and the conflict science vs. ethics. Part three is about the need for a balancing power between opposing world views of two parties, the necessary institutions to mediate and the corruption of them. The entire serioes has something to say about the arrogance of power.
The Thief series contains philosophical elements, most of them being political in nature, but they are not spelled out for you as in most other games that have actual depth. You have to look for it, not hard though. It's nowhere near Deus Ex but it isn't as dumb as it it seems to most. There is moral, ethical conflict to think about.

[Wamplet]

What Klaus said. Sorry i didn't elaborate. I thought it was obvious for most people who have played the game.

Sorry for not going to in depth about the games though I'm tired now. :o

[Monkey Butler]

Again, not philosophy.

[Wamplet]

You have to be kidding.

The entire series is centered around 3 factions with different philosphies on how the world should evolve.

It can't be made any simpler than that.

[Monkey Butler]

Every game is about different factions with different views about how the world should evolve. By the same token you could say that Super Mario is a "philosophical game" because Bowser has a certain despotic philosophy on how the world should evolve.

You want to talk about philosophy, then yeah, look to something like Bioshock's reaction to Objectivism. But just saying something like "people have different points of view" is sophomoric.

[Daveman]

Metal Gear Solid 2, 3, and 4 have a pretty good philosophical depth to them. Especially Snake Eater.

[superevilcube]

I second the MGS series.

[Hyperactive Slob]

Metal Gear Solid 2, 3, and 4 have a pretty good philosophical depth to them. Especially Snake Eater.
About what though? Could you please describe it?

[Klaus Kinski]

Monkey Butler, have you played all three Thief games? I'm just asking because if you didn't, it would be a bit hard to explain (lots of story to cover).

[Wamplet]

Every game is about different factions with different views about how the world should evolve. By the same token you could say that Super Mario is a "philosophical game" because Bowser has a certain despotic philosophy on how the world should evolve.

You want to talk about philosophy, then yeah, look to something like Bioshock's reaction to Objectivism. But just saying something like "people have different points of view" is sophomoric.

Do you even know the first name of Thief's protagonist?

I will wait while you go google it. :o

and as far as every game involving factions, how does a game like Tetris fit in? :confused:

[Paroxysm]

Dead Head Fred has some interesting exploration of the Mind-Body Dilemma.


:D

[WoodenSword]

and as far as every game involving factions, how does a game like Tetris fit in? :confused:

Tetris glorifies mankind's struggle for perfectionism :)

[Klaus Kinski]

No, you got it all wrong. Tetris is about the opressive nature of man, our need to put order into the chaos for the greater good even if it means deleting lines of lines of blocks. Basically tetris is an allegory of fascism. :D

[Daveman]

About what though? Could you please describe it?
Each game has different themes/topics. Snake Eater is the one I remember best. The message is all about how soldiers are used by politicians like pawns in games they know nothing about and how conflicts are always about personal greed for someone in charge. Somebody else could probably put it a lot more articulately than me right now. :D

[superevilcube]

Metal Gear Solid 2 deals a lot of memetic engineering (the theory that ideas, beliefs and thoughts can be isolated and controlled). It also deals with the nature of reality and free will.

[Zztx]

No, you got it all wrong. Tetris is about the opressive nature of man, our need to put order into the chaos for the greater good even if it means deleting lines of lines of blocks. Basically tetris is an allegory of fascism. :D
Tetris is about sacrificing individuality for the sake of progressive conformity.

No, the long line piece can't go wherever it damn well pleases. It has one purpose and one purpose only: to slide into a deep crevice to get those bitchin' four-liners. :p

[Echo Black]

Pac-Man is the sad tale of a heavy drug user that has trapped himself inside the labyrinth of addiction. No matter how far he runs, he cannot stop consuming pills, and will always end up going in circles. The only way he can momentarily face the ghosts of his past is by attaining the next high, one small victory that ultimately means little in the grand scheme of things.

[Zztx]

I once read the theory that Sonic the Hedgehog represented anarchy (hence, "chaos" emeralds) and Dr. Robotnik/Eggman represented corporate industrialization. Or something.

[Simon Charles]

The longest Journey I and II.

Ultima VII had some strong moments when you confront the Titans (jebus that game was long).

[Echo Black]

TLJ is great. Very adult and touches themes you don't often see in games. Have played little of Dreamfall, but the first one was amazing.

[superevilcube]

Pac-Man is the sad tale of a heavy drug user that has trapped himself inside the labyrinth of addiction. No matter how far he runs, he cannot stop consuming pills, and will always end up going in circles. The only way he can momentarily face the ghosts of his past is by attaining the next high, one small victory that ultimately means little in the grand scheme of things.

5char

[Echo Black]

5char

Haha, that pic is great. It's like he's trying to suppress the guilt he feels for letting his fellow astronauts die.

[Beelze]

I once read the theory that Sonic the Hedgehog represented anarchy (hence, "chaos" emeralds) and Dr. Robotnik/Eggman represented corporate industrialization. Or something.
I pondered this same thing yesterday. I believe Sonic and his friends make out a luddite, hippie terrorist organisation, one fighting against certain doctrines of transhumanism - the way Robotnik is turning every lifeform into a robot certainly brings to mind the idea of utilizing all the computational power of the universe.

This footage (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4V7vBRbOMKI) catches Sonic in the act of the mid-flight hi-jacking of plane, him battling his dehedgehoginizing mecha-self, him taking down the head of the technological elite, as well as him detonating the headquarters of the corporatocracy.

Amongst many other things, this is all very deep romanticism vs. scientism.

[Reaper]

This thread was spent as soon as Wamplet mentioned Tetris... downhill. Seriously. :angry:

-System Shock 2:
The main Philosophical element is about individuality vs. Unity.
"What is a drop of rain, compared to the storm? What is a thought, compared to a mind? Our unity is full of wonder, which your tiny individualism... cannot even conceive."
How was SS2 about unity? If anything it was the problems inherent with letting an AI run anything important or dangerous. Shodan did not unite the people, she bent them to her will.

[Denz]

SOF 2 has some philosophy to it.


Whoever you are, if you are shot in the head, your head will blow off.
The bullet is neutral

[Klaus Kinski]

How was SS2 about unity? If anything it was the problems inherent with letting an AI run anything important or dangerous. Shodan did not unite the people, she bent them to her will.

You forgot The Many. Shodan isn't the only faction.

[Reaper]

You forgot The Many. Shodan isn't the only faction.
I thought the many were biological creations enslaved by Shodan... but thinking back, they weren't on her side. She just created them.