I really need some advice on this

[HappyKing]

I know this isn't something people normally post, but I find it much easier to ask strangers for help then my friends. If this is a really weird topic, delete it and I won't bother you again with it.

My problem is that I really like this girl and we've been close friends for about 4 years now. but I'm not sure on how I should ask her about her feelings for me.
Also she hooked up with this horrible ASS, wich is weird because she hates guys like that. She says she really loves him but I'm not sure if she really does love him, or just wants to make me jealous.

Does any of you know of a way to find out without asking her directly? I'm afraid our friendship will be ruined if she says "no".

[ReadOnly]

You friendship is already ruined if you're in love with her. That's not a friendship anymore. Not saying that even if she says "yes" you won't be frinds either.

So, first of all sort out your feelings for her.

Then, you are "friends" for 4 years. I don't think that she would do that crap to show you her "true" feelings.

Since I don't have much of a experience confessing to girls about my feelings, I recommend just sort them out inside your head. Then act like you would if you were in love with the girl.

[oak man]

Dude, honestly I've been in this situation, I don't wanna sound like a douche, but.... Keep an eye out for another girl who might actually appreciate you.
Chances are, she likes jerks thats why she's with one. I mean yeah it seems like "Why the hell are you attracted to that... boy... Im a MAN honey!" But you know, thats just how it goes.
Just telling you from experience(happened to me more than twice) Look for another girl. Don't stop being friends with her though, because on the off chance she realizes this guy is a retard, she might think of you!
Another thing, when your dating around or need somebody, NEVER and I mean NEEEEEVVVVEEEERRRRR focus on only one person that your not even with! Especially if she's with someone! That just ends in you feeling like you wasted your time, which you did....

Never focus on one person until you have them. But also, don't make it tooo apparent that you want to do more with the other ones... You don't want to lead anybody on, because that sucks even more! Just do casual hangouts, this way it "plants a seed" so to speak, and shows that your a fun person, and They might think about it(you and them).

Love is an exciting and painful thing... Just got threw with a girl I was chasin', turns out she wasn't really worth it..

REMEMBER: Take everything I said with a grain of salt!!!! If you feel you want to do things diferently, go for it dude! Its your life :)!!!


Wish you the best of luck!

[alexgk]

I so much agree with oak man...

[Superczar]

Yer on the "friends" ladder. Sorry mate, but closest you're gonna ever get is "Cuddlebitch" unfortunately. :o

Not being mean, or an ass, it's just a sad reality for guys in your situation (I've been in there in the WORST possible way too)... :(

[Jiminator]

this is the classic conflict of man vs woman
the cruel truth, from many people that have been there

well, the question is are you her "girlfriend" ?
because if you are then you need to move on
if you want to be her "boyfriend" then you need to let her know
if it breaks up your relationship it is because you are in a state of denial about it
You might think you are building value as a boyfriend,
but the reality is that you are only building value as a "girlfriend"
lots of women have gay guys as their "girlfriends".
if you are in this role then you should move on.

[Sang]

After 4 years you're probably stuck on Friend Street. So unfortunately I'd say forget about it.

[Ramen4ever]

If you like someone, and she's one of your friends, you basically have two things to consider. Do you like her enough to consider a serious relationship or is she just a friend you have a crush on (think shes cute). In other words which relationship has more potential.

Next you need to analyze if she's ever done any advances toward you recently. Though considering what possible emotional state your in.. that may not be the best idea as you will probably misinterpret things and set yourself up for being shot down.

Personally I've never had any problems with women, I don't really even consider the "just friends" theory. If I like someone, I'll wait for an opportunity and reveal it in a semi-subtle way. Like going to a park at night when there's clear skies. Just comment on the stars and say something like "No matter how many times I see them, they're always so beautiful and fascinating" ... "just like you.";)
Depending on how she reacts you have your answer. I'll take the possibility of an adult relationship over just "friends". Provided I have some hope of success.


EDIT. on second thought. Give up now, you have better chances with Yatta.

[alexgk]

EDIT. on second thought. Give up now, you have better chances with Yatta.

Everyone does :o

[Mr.Fibbles]

I don't know if I fully prescribe to the "Ladder Theory" but girls do have problems with changing from "friends" to something more. I've almost lost friends from asking a girl out but because we talked things through etc and made clear how she wasn't interested in being more than friends and I was able to move on, we are still friends. In fact, I am better friends with the 2 girls I asked out and got turned down but talked through things with than I am with the girl who didn't talk to me about anything but wanted to "just be friends" the whole time I was flirting with her.

You have to take chances sometimes... I know I am horrible at it, but I know I have to grow a pair and make sure that no matter what, I am able to preserve the friendship because I know how to: talking.
In this case though, with her being sucked into a douche bag... you are pretty much SOL. She is a lost cause until she falls all the way to the ground.

[oak man]

^ lawl!on the yatta bit!!!

Yeah I make the mistake alot of not.... "Striking when the iron is hot"//
DON'T NOT TAKE CHANCES WHEN YOU KNOW YOU'VE GOT ONE!!! Or you'l be like me.... On these forums instead of with whats her name... :(

[ReadOnly]

Too bad I'm not living near Yatta. I would definitely... nevermind.

I'm also waiting to Simon Charles to show up and teach HappyKing about women... ;)

Anyway... I assume it's pretty dead end for a relationship. Oak man is right about wasting time.

[stumppy84]

Yeah I have to agree with others here... Find another girl.

[YicklePigeon]

I've been in this situation just as have many others on here, and to be honest, I'd say this:-

Do it for the experience. But don't come crying to me if you follow that bit of advice when it all goes pear shaped (which it will).

As others have stated in their various ways, you're in what's known as "the friend zone" because in her mind she probably likes you (as a friend) and as such would never consider you as anything other than that. Maybe even as a brother or confidant. I also find your statement of her current boyfriend being a "horrible ASS" debatable quite frankly, although I have my suspicions as to why you think that, you don't provide any information to support your statement (if you state anything like "he doesn't buy her flowers or treat her nicely, you may find an angry pigeon head-pecking you on the chest...).

Anyway, I need more input before I continue my rant.

Regards,

Yickle.

P.S. Another thing: no one can MAKE another person like you in the way you want. They'll either like you the way you want or they won't.

[Waiter]

Never focus on one person until you have them.

Well ... as much as I agree on the rest of your post, that's a very easy and pointless thing to say until you're actually hit by the train called love. It's called a train because it's practically impossible to stop. And you don't get to drive...

[ZuljinRaynor]

Then, you are "friends" for 4 years. I don't think that she would do that crap to show you her "true" feelings.

Well maybe since I was for 3 years friends with a girl in a situation like this, it's basically over if she says "no" or avoids saying anything. If you don't get any feedback and she starts avoiding you it's fission mailed, move on. Friendship is probably dead too.

[Yenji]

I also agree that you are in the friends zone, but if you do ask her out then be a man about it. None of this whine whine bitch bitch I'm so broken up crap if she doesn't feel the same way. If asking her out doesn't destroy the relationship then that surely would.

I can't say that I would care much for being used as a rebound if her current relationship went down the gutter though. I think you're better off looking for another girl.

And no I don't mean to sound like an ass with this post

[Jiminator]

just some considerations and general observations: people often do not know how they feel about a person unless they are away from them. that can seem like an ultimatum, where you move on, and if she finds she misses your company she may break things off and attempt to persue a relationship with you. chances though are ..... not. Women with low self-esteem will tend to prefer guys that confirm their self-esteem issue. Those that treat them like a princess thingy generally will not work. Women like "bad boys" because of some misguided excitement factor. The same probably applies to you, low self-esteem so you are chasing someone who is "unobtainable" instead of someone you can have. There are probably women you could have that you never would consider, because your relationship with them is the same as her relationship with you.

[Waiter]

My advice: If you're really in love in this girl, go for it. If you do it the right way, being honest is never wrong

I have been turned down a few times, but although it hurts I have never regretted being honest about my feelings. I've been in your situation twice. Having a bad crush on a girl for years, calling her "friend" and never having the goddamn guts to say anything. I now know that they both had a crush on me too and I call them the two greatest mistakes of my life.

What are you afraid of? Losing your false hope?

[Mr.Fibbles]

If you don't get any feedback and she starts avoiding you it's fission mailed, move on. Friendship is probably dead too.

^QFT
Story of my life...even right now sort of, maybe...I"m not sure.:doh::insomnia::insomnia:

[Ramen4ever]

My advice: If you're really in love in this girl, go for it. If you do it the right way, being honest is never wrong

I have been turned down a few times, but although it hurts I have never regretted being honest about my feelings. I haven been in your situation twice, having a bad crush on a girl, called her "friend" and never had the guts to say anything. I now know that they both had a crush on me too and I call them the two greatest mistakes of my life.

What are you afraid of? Losing your false hope?

mm, well put. Nothing's worse then having those feelings that you should just take the risk and make a move .. but then you end up doing nothing. This is like the perfect formula for regret.
If he's got a crush on the girl then the "friendship" is already more or less ruined or at least not the same as before. Too late to change that now. :)

Edit.. But seriously Yatta is still very available. ;)

[Yatta]

Yes, I'm available. :love:

But let me give you some relationship advice because even if it doesn't apply here, it'll do you well:

1) Do not let her ride on you because of the fact that you love her.
2) No matter how much you love her, do not put her on a pedestal for both your sake and hers; place a limit on your feelings to a point where you only reciprocate the amount of love she displays towards you.
3) Approach her about your feelings via the Internet (chat, email) instead of face to face; this way it'll be easier to confront her, and both of you (especially her) will be comfortable to a point where you don't feel as if you're being put on the spot. You'll also want to tell her what I just said so she'll know you're being considerate (and not a coward) in approaching her online rather than in person.

[Nessus]

She doesn't like you in that way, you're a friend. ( See Ladder theory as mentioned above)

What you need to do is start ignoring her, show some interest in other girls. Watch pickup artist on VH1 or something. Develop some game and get a girl outside of her and maybe then you can move over when her interest is piqued.

Yatta he should absolutely not approach her about his feelings, she already knows. all he could accomplish by stating it is looking like a total tool. Don't do that. Stop giving her so much respect. Girls are genetically programmed to want guys who think they are too good for them, if you fawn on a girl you are DONE!

( Edit) I've been reading this thread backwards and can't believe how many people are advising you to tell her your feelings. DONT DO IT!!! Unless she has been showing you she wants you for 4 years and you've been blowing her off. (which does not seem to be the case.)

Accept that the timing is not right, she is not attracted to you, you are a low status man in her eyes. Get your value up by geting with another girl and then maybe you've got a chance. And no matter what you do do not take any advice from girls, it will always be terrible and the exact opposite of what you should be doing.

[Yatta]

Yatta he should absolutely not approach her about his feelings, she already knows. all he could accomplish by stating it is looking like a total tool. Don't do that. Stop giving her so much respect. Girls are genetically programmed to want guys who think they are too good for them, if you fawn on a girl you are DONE!
If he knows for sure that she knows how he feels, then you're absolutely right about not approaching her.

Also everything else Nessus said is absolutely right regardless of whether she likes you back or not.

[Mr.Fibbles]

3) Approach her about your feelings via the Internet (chat, email) instead of face to face; this way it'll be easier to confront her, and both of you (especially her) will be comfortable to a point where you don't feel as if you're being put on the spot. You'll also want to tell her what I just said so she'll know you're being considerate (and not a coward) in approaching her online rather than in person.

I generally disagree with this approach. I have approached girls from all other methods just about except in person (and the phone which is basically the same) and it ends with them being able to just not say anything and ignore me. Which only drags it all on longer and ends badly for both.
I am a fan of personal approach since it does rid the chance to avoid it and makes you both confront the issue head on. There is no reason to eat around the bush.

But that is me and I really don't have any credentials so you can ignore it.;)

[NutWrench]

Also she hooked up with this horrible ASS, wich is weird because she hates guys like that. She says she really loves him but I'm not sure if she really does love him, or just wants to make me jealous.

Right now, she's hooked up with Horrible Ass, so she's not available to you for anything beyond basic friendship. That may change in the future but until she declares it's over, she's off limits.

Also, if you suspect she would do this just to make you jealous then you're lucky you found this out about her before getting involved. That kind of behavior is childish and manipulative.

[Sang]

What an ironically sad thread this is.

[Llama Gibbz]

Send her boyfriend one of these,he will be gone in a flash. :D

http://img27.picoodle.com/img/img27/4/6/17/f_sorzm_ed2c9f0.jpg

Seriously
If you ask her about here true feelings,be prepared for the "your like a big brother" answer.
You should look for another women.

[Ramen4ever]

Send her boyfriend one of these,he will be gone in a flash. :D

http://img27.picoodle.com/img/img27/4/6/17/f_sorzm_ed2c9f0.jpg

Seriously
If you ask her about here true feelings,be prepared for the "your like a big brother" answer.
You should look for another women.

That's definitely one creative way to freak someone out. :o

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

If you are going to tell her, do it after her current relationship ends. Though after you tell her, be prepared to no longer have the same level of friendship.

Ask some other girls out, focusing on one for so long, that you are not dating, is not healthy.

[Nessus]

On a side note I don't know what you look like but I'm a big believer in push ups and sit ups. You'll even stand more confidently and look better in motion besides looking and feeling better. Sometimes the way to attract a girl is to be more attractive. We can't all be naturally beautiful like Yatta.

[Ramen4ever]

We can't all be naturally beautiful like Yatta.

Back off!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhPNYV2Q7sM
:D

No but seriously, that may seem like shallow advice but I agree that it works. Confidence attracts women .. and so does being attractive.:o

[ZuljinRaynor]

If you are going to tell her, do it after her current relationship ends. Though after you tell her, be prepared to no longer have the same level of friendship.
Or no friendship at all.

[Phait]

My problem is that I really like this girl and we've been close friends for about 4 years now. but I'm not sure on how I should ask her about her feelings for me.

A 4 year friendship is a good milestone, so I would ask yourself which is most important to you - that longstanding friendship, or an uncertain future path? Most of the time your heart will interfere with reason, so you have to be careful how you consider this. It just comes down to that simple question, which is most important to you, in the big picture?

If it's the friendship, accept that the timing is off. It may be really hard, but it's possible to be at terms with this. It may be easy to fall into "well, I'd rather be with her, than have just a friendship". But such a friendship is important and shouldn't be minimized in way of one's greater desires.

And that's the thing, it's that desire that causes us suffering. When you cannot have something, whether for the time being or for the foreseeable future - if you realise this, but still have that desire, you suffer.

So, the best thing to do is quell the desire. What I would usually do is accept "okay, I have a great friendship that I've always wanted - and I don't want to risk that". And I'd leave it at that, and let time do it's work. Day by day. Sometimes you have to just learn to be content with what you do have.

Also she hooked up with this horrible ASS, wich is weird because she hates guys like that. She says she really loves him but I'm not sure if she really does love him, or just wants to make me jealous.

On their part it is usually an ignorance, there's some kind of security there they might not want to abandon. They might fear losing that if they were to go with a different, even better, person for them. While one could confront this kind of person, it would just come off a bit overbearing and possibly selfish, considering you are the one interested. They'll just have to learn on there own.

Does any of you know of a way to find out without asking her directly? I'm afraid our friendship will be ruined if she says "no".

There's nothing wrong with being open about your feelings, it shows integrity in most situations. A person with their head screwed on all the way should admire that, and not feel threatened by it.

If she says no, whether your friendship is "ruined" is really your choice. It's how you choose to react to the answer. It's easy to react impulsively, without much thought as to the consequences. The best thing, if you are able, is to not react. Just accept, and move on. Again, not easy, but day by day. Occupy your time, keep your mind focused on something else. Allow yourself to come to terms, then continue cultivating a good friendship.

[thefly]

My problem is that I really like this girl and we've been close friends for about 4 years now. but I'm not sure on how I should ask her about her feelings for me.
Also she hooked up with this horrible ASS, wich is weird because she hates guys like that. She says she really loves him but I'm not sure if she really does love him, or just wants to make me jealous.


From what I gathered, people don't usually end up dating "close friends;" they date new people they meet or aren't currently close with.

And "the new guy" someone you really like dates is always going to be the a-hole, regardless of who they are. ;)

Also, I'm curious why you already waited this long? Did you think waiting longer was going to change things?

I'm afraid our friendship will be ruined if she says "no".

Well, would you stay her friend if she said no, but she was cool with still being your friend?

[ReadOnly]

Now, we need some girl's input here. Just for the both sides of the coin.

[YicklePigeon]

Nessus suggested focusing on getting some game and focusing on other girls. This is CORRECT behaviour. However, I don't feel that HappyKing will follow that - not until he deals with this girl anyway.

And trust me HappyKing, you'll have long standing friendships with other girls in the future...personally, there is one young woman who I've been friends with for a long time and one of the few people outside my family of whom buy presents for one another at Christmas, birthdays, randomly because we could etc. And during all that I've had women come in and out of my life.

The point is, that no matter what my feelings are for my friend - which change naturally as our contact with one another continues - we remain friends.

If that ever changed, no doubt Yatta would be the first to know in the gossip column... :P

However HappyKing, if you're still reading this thread, we need an update from you really as to what's gone on in the meantime between you and this girl. So we have something more to rant about *nods*.

Regards,

Yickle.

[Destructor]

Does any of you know of a way to find out without asking her directly? I'm afraid our friendship will be ruined if she says "no".

Why on Earth do you think that? :confused:

[HappyKing]

However HappyKing, if you're still reading this thread, we need an update from you really as to what's gone on in the meantime between you and this girl. So we have something more to rant about *nods*. Honestly, "the meantime" since my last post is like 18hours or so. Not alot happened. but she's off to her father for Christmas and Newyear. And since she hasn't been online with MSN, we haven't spoken since last Thursday.

And "the new guy" someone you really like dates is always going to be the a-hole, regardless of who they are. ;)
No, he really is an ass, he finds sports more interesting then his new girlfriend.

[Tang Lung]

I'm sorry about your situation HappyKing, I understand how painful such things can be. All I can do is offer my advice based on my own experience, I hope I can help you out. If not..good luck. Anyway..my advice..Forget about her.

I know, it's incredibly hard to do..but it's the only way from my experience. It can go one of two ways..

You move on, get over your feelings. She stays with the guy or whatever..the feelings are never returned. Life goes on. Learn from it.

!OR! She feels the same way, and starts chasing you or dropping hints. If you detect that..tell her. But don't let her mess you around. Be confident, take control. Don't put her on a pedestal. There is no such things as 'leagues', she is no better an no worse than you.

To be honest, If it was me in this situation..I would just tell her outright. Explain to her that since I've known her my feelings for her have gotten stronger, and while I don't want to ruin our friendship..I don't really have a choice but to tell her. But that's me, you might be less destructive.

In any case, good luck HappyKing.

Sidenote:
LESSON LEARNED? ABOVE ALL..IF YOU HAVE FEELINGS FOR SOMEONE..TELL...THEM! NOW! NO BULLSHIT!

[Sang]

Tang Lung, your post is a total paradox. You advise HappyKing to forget about her and get over his feelings yet after that you hint it would be better for him to confess his feelings. So which is it?

[John]

I suppose what he meant was that he should have told her from the beginning, instead of waiting until she's taken.

[HappyKing]

I think i get it now, if she really was trying to make me jealous i'll probably notice when i move away from her.

you guys actually gave some good advice, thank you.
Joe warned me about getting my feelings hurt, but it's good to see him not get the right end this time :).

anyway guys, thank you again for the advice.
to any mod: you may lock or delete this topic if you want, i have my answers.

[The Baskinator]

From what I gathered, people don't usually end up dating "close friends;" they date new people they meet or aren't currently close with.

Because friendship that lasts for a long time is more valuable than relationships that may only last for a few months. There are no guarantees with dating, even if you date a friend. The things you liked about them when you were friends could be the things you hate when you date them.

[Sang]

Heh well I do know this one guy and girl who have known eachother for 5-6 months and then they got together.. Of course, 6 months is, in reality, not that long but when you're part of a group of friends in high school it's actually an eternity.

I don't really get it though.. in my opinion, that guy can be a twat most of the time (mostly because he keeps faking being rude or tough or shit like that which can get very annoying if you have to spend several hours with the guy).. But still the girl went for him. But I've seen the couple together on at least one occassion and the guy really said a lot of things you really shouldn't say to your girlfriend (like "you really can't cook.. just kidding!!" or "I don't appreciate you at all lol... kidding") so unless she can take being treated like shit (even if it is just for laughs) I don't think the relationship will last long.
Guess that could be an example of things one can like in a friendship but not in an actual relationship. Only time will tell :p

Also why lock the thread? Some nice contributions can still be made.

[Jiminator]

people learn how to be in relationships by being in relationships. rare for the first one to survive. lots of guys start off thinking their girlfriend is a replacement for mommy, thus the comparisons. anyways I for one am interested in hearing how this story turns out, so please keep us updated. Although skeptical i'd love to be proved wrong.

[Blue Lightning]

I know this isn't something people normally post, but I find it much easier to ask strangers for help then my friends. If this is a really weird topic, delete it and I won't bother you again with it.

My problem is that I really like this girl and we've been close friends for about 4 years now. but I'm not sure on how I should ask her about her feelings for me.
Also she hooked up with this horrible ASS, wich is weird because she hates guys like that. She says she really loves him but I'm not sure if she really does love him, or just wants to make me jealous.

Does any of you know of a way to find out without asking her directly? I'm afraid our friendship will be ruined if she says "no".

Never fear, Blue Lightning is here. I am expert in this stuff.

Ok, here's the deal. Firstly, life is an "ever changing event". You cannot always "keep a freindship", because feelings change, and that messes up the works, capice? So your feelings have changed to really wanting to date her, which changes the freindship between you two, into a more of a strained freindship where you are on the outside looking in. And it is never fun being on the outside, looking in. Therefore it is time to take action.

Taking action means this...ask her! For Gods sake, life is short and you dont want to waste time, and you certainly dont want to suffer by being on the outside looking in. Therefore, a direct approach is in order. She may say yes, and she may say no. If she says yes, then your made. If she says no, then you wont have that same "freindship", but it wont matter because that freindship has turned into you suffering and always worried about who she is dating. Dont worry about who she is dating, unless it is you!

She is dating an azz that is the type she doesnt even like? Yeah, girls are attracted to those that are not good for them, even when they know it. Some girls even refer to themselves as "bum magnets". But you dont worry about that. You just pop the question, and if the answer is no, then you can move on.

[someguy2435]

the best advice is to figure it out for yourself, honestly

[Tang Lung]

Tang Lung, your post is a total paradox. You advise HappyKing to forget about her and get over his feelings yet after that you hint it would be better for him to confess his feelings. So which is it?

I thought I made it pretty clear. Re-read my post.

The sidenote was meant as future advice along the lines of 'tell someone as soon as the feelings arise'.

[Syph]

The same thing happened to me, it was definitely love in my case, and probably the only time in my life it was real. I tried to do the brave and honest thing, tell her how I felt and all that, and I regret it every day of my life. I should have either taken the time to word everything just the way I wanted it, or maintained the friendship and kept my secret. As it was I ended up essentially tripping over my words and embarrassing myself. I really haven't been the same ever since. The only positive thing that came out of it is I'll never have to wonder how she felt... But in hindsight that would have been much better. All the girls I've met since then have just been shallow and stupid in comparison, and I just have to hold out hope that someone like that will not only come along again, but actually be interested in me as well.

My advice, get it over with at least so you're not tearing yourself up inside. Apart from that I am sorry that I can't be any help.

[Jiminator]

sorry about the story, but in situations like this the words don't matter as much as we would like to think. you might be beating yourself up over the situation but on the positive side you can also move on. you might now meet someone that you would have ignored had you still been stuck in wait mode.

[Ramen4ever]

I've stumbled over my words before as well. Though I just turn it into a quick kind of "joke on me" thing instead of regretting something that doesn't even matter. Heck it lightens the mood, tells the girl that your just yourself and not rehearsing your lines like a douche.
You really just follow up with "and that's why they call me Mr.Smooth." or "I know.. that was reeeaal smooth." or even "Well.. that went well." really stumbling doesn't matter.

Unless its "H-h-hi.. I was j-just won-d-d-er-wondering ... What did you have for breakfast???":doh:

[Syph]

LOL, no in my case it was much... and I mean MUCH worse than all that. But this was a long time ago, and I've since had relationships. But it really did change me alot. Nothing could have come of it I guess but in all honesty the biggest thing that hurt me was definitely the way I let her know... It was more like a game of Jeopardy than a confession of love and I was Alex Trebek. Just couldn't get the words out of my mouth.

[Ramen4ever]

LOL, no in my case it was much... and I mean MUCH worse than all that. But this was a long time ago, and I've since had relationships. But it really did change me alot. Nothing could have come of it I guess but in all honesty the biggest thing that hurt me was definitely the way I let her know... It was more like a game of Jeopardy than a confession of love and I was Alex Trebek. Just couldn't get the words out of my mouth.

Mmm the indirect approach of Jeopardy. Been there before. I got fed up both when I did once, (ended with me just saying "okay.. to hell with this." And when one of my first ex's did it as well. Both times ended with giggles.
Imo, the real killer is when a person is overly conscious about their actions and words, over thinking the situation and (almost) most importantly hesitant.
It can really end in tragedy. :censored:

[Syph]

Yup, sure did... It was a bit like the end of Titanic now that I think about it. But a good sense of humor can help cope with just about anything.

[mysteryperfecta]

If I may read between the lines... when you say, "I'm afraid our friendship will be ruined if she says no", you're actually saying that you don't want to cost yourself opportunities to be around her. :) Friendship is secondary, right?

Sorry, but lasting relationships are not often born of the scenario you describe. Being "in love" with someone before you're in a dating relationship is typically built on misconceptions and fantasy. I've seen them work out on rare occasion, but more often, I've also seen it devolve into obsessive, self-destructive behavior. Let me repeat: I've witnessed exactly the scenario you describe. You are not blazing new territory. It can get very ugly.

My suggestion to you (and to everyone) is to not put ANY romantic expectations on ANY relationship. Date? Have female friends? Sure. But do so to in the spirit of fun and camaraderie. You'll be surprised how naturally and unexpectedly a romantic relationship can come from this. I speak from first-hand experience (7+ years of marriage and two kids later). Respect the wisdom of your elders. :)

My other suggestion is one you'll most likely ignore, but is the best advice you could take (imho :) ) -- severely pare down or completely sever ties with this girl (in a gracious, civilized manner, of course). The relationship as it stands is counterproductive and prone to enduring heartache. She's not worth it. You don't deserve it. You're 20 years old. DO NOT WASTE FORMATIVE YEARS OF YOUR LIFE PINING FOR A LIKELY NON-STARTING RELATIONSHIP!!! Have fun! Realize that you may be delaying a wonderful healthy relationship with another girl because you insist on yearning for an unavailable girl.

Take care. :)

[thefly]

Because friendship that lasts for a long time is more valuable than relationships that may only last for a few months. There are no guarantees with dating, even if you date a friend. The things you liked about them when you were friends could be the things you hate when you date them.

Exactly. There is also the big down side that if you do date a friend and it ends, your mutual circle of friends will pretty much be forced to take sides. You can't all hang out together like before. I went to a small private school, and man did I see that happen a lot of damn times.

[Zztx]

I'm in an awkward situation where a girl I'm nuts about, and am friends with, is attending university in Australia (we both live in the U.S.), where she has a boyfriend. She's recently come back over here now that her semester's done. It feels like I'm falling for her all over again, but I can't do a thing about it because of the physical distance when she's attending university and her current relationship.
So the obvious question is, do I kill the boyfriend with piano wire or high-tension fishing line?

Now in all seriousness, though, I'm at the point where my desire for her is driving me into extended periods of frustration, jealousy and depression.

I'm not asking for solutions, though, because the answer is simple enough: if the situation is that sickeningly futile, just stop thinking about her that way. That may be easier said than done after the f**king big pedestal I've put her on, but letting my self-esteem and emotional health fall into ruin isn't really worth chasing the unattainable.

I've also been dating another girl - it's not serious, we're just eating, talking, and hanging out. I don't see it getting serious, though; I really don't feel it clicking beyond physical attraction for her (which is a minor shame; she's really cute (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5vlco4yvSc&fmt=18)). Really nice gal, all the same.

Then there's girl #3, whom I'll probably try dating next. A girl-friend (note the hyphen) of mine keeps saying that we should hook up, and that she's my ideal girl: a "librarian with big tits." :p
And she does seem all right: she's mildly geeky, into games, and she's got huge... tracts of land. Couldn't hurt to ask her out.

...annnnd that's how I managed to f**k up my head. :p

At least I'm not seeing a batty, clingy girl anymore, but THAT'S another story.

[Destructor]

I tried to do the brave and honest thing, tell her how I felt and all that, and I regret it every day of my life.

Lesson learned for all of us I think. Probably the best way to try and take things to the next level is remembering this old saying: actions speak louder than words. In your body language try to convey the fact that you're attracted to her. Touch her, put your arm around her, even if it's just playfully because at least your building a foundation to expand upon.

I remember I was sitting in a car with a chick whom I picked up to go to university with, and without really thinking about it, I grabbed her hand in an affectionate sort of way and made it pretty clear I was sexually interested, so to speak. It didn't lead to anything though but it didn't destroy our friendship either. In fact, not a word was said about it.

[Ramen4ever]

In fact, not a word was said about it.

I might be jumping to conclusions but it sounds like you got shot down::o
http://img385.imageshack.us/img385/1518/crashandburnvw0.th.jpg (http://img385.imageshack.us/my.php?image=crashandburnvw0.jpg)

[Destructor]

I might be jumping to conclusions but it sounds like you got shot down::o
http://img385.imageshack.us/img385/1518/crashandburnvw0.th.jpg (http://img385.imageshack.us/my.php?image=crashandburnvw0.jpg)

Well, you can't blame a man for trying can you? :)

[Waiter]

I tried to do the brave and honest thing, tell her how I felt and all that, and I regret it every day of my life.

I've been there as well and I still stand by my "go for it" from the last page. I have done your version as well with more or less the same result. Just as Destructor says, words are usually not the best solution here. In my case everything worked out fine and we kept our friendship for a long time. I never regreted tellíng her, possibly the way I did it. Standing there giving an unprepared speech with your tail between your legs will very seldom convince her that you're Mr Right... A thing to remember is that altough you think of yourself as very brave when you blurt your heart out that way, you also put a lot of pressure on the girl. Once you are out of your unprepared words you're left with a black hole of silence that she's supposed to fill with her reactions.

I agree very much with Destructor - actions speak much louder than words, and are strangely at the same time much more subtle.


There is also the big down side that if you do date a friend and it ends, your mutual circle of friends will pretty much be forced to take sides.

Only it YOU force them, SHE forces them or THEY decide to take sides. In my personal opinion, once you've mentally passed a reasonably grown up age, any of those is a result of not really having a true friendship.

Of course there will be difficulties, but it's often at times like these that you find out who your real friends really are.