Talking to computer-illiterate people.

[JR Ewing]

How in the world do you do it?!?!?! Ugh...it drives me nuts. I work for a bank and today, I get a call from one of our branch offices (that I worked at Saturday) asking if WinTEP (the system that we use) was working. I said it was working fine and we hung up. About 10 or 15 minutes later, one of the other girls from the same branch calls and asks if I changed something on my computer that I use there. I told her I just installed a different browser because IE6 was outdated. The computer I use there is an old Win98 computer and the most current browser that will work in Win98 is Netscape Navigator 9, which is what I installed. So I explained to her I installed it Saturday but that wouldn't have anything to do with the the system not working over there. Basically we connect to a host server somewhere in another state to login. Later in the day I get a THIRD call. I'm getting asked all sorts of questions like, did I install this browser after I signed into the system or before. I told her I signed in after I installed the browser but later signed out and signed on to another computer. Then she asked if I changed any of the IP addresses or would the program have changed any IP addresses. In a respectable manner I explained that I would have no reason to change the IP's and the program I installed wouldn't do that.

In a nutshell, I'm not sure I convinced the 3 women working there today that I was not responsible for the system going down. This is what happens when people that know nothing about computers get together and start brainstorming about what the problem might be. I suspect tomorrow, I'm going to go in to find out the program I installed was deleted and I'll be instructed never to install it again. Go figure.

They had to call someone to come out there to check out our VPN and they could not find the problem and they asked him about the browser I installed and he even said the two were unrelated. Still, I think they're convinced I caused the problem.

It cracks me up thinking about it but it annoys me too... How do some of you deal with this on a daily basis??? :doh:

[Superczar]

I don't - and that's why I try my damnedest not fix people's computers. :o

It's even worse in the amusement industry - these customers have NO IDEA at all what the f*** is going on with machines. Even the godamn techs at the companies are stupid it seems.

[Rider]

Why are there people involved with figuring out why something broke, when those people aren't capable of troubleshooting? I'm pretty sure they don't have any credentials saying they do, so why are they even involved?

[Scream]

As a LAN admin, I'd have to say the better questions are:

1. Why is a bank (or anyone else for that matter) still running Windows 98, an unsupported OS?

2. Why would a bank not have an explicit policy disallowing employees from installing ANY software on their systems (and enforcing it by technical means)? They should be running a current OS that allows them to place restrictions on what an employee can do. Only people who work for IT should be installing programs on a business PC, based on company policy of whitelisted/blacklisted software.

With the obvious lax policy restrictions they have where you work I'm surprised you don't run into this kind of situation all the time.

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

Just tell them to press escape to log in. ;)

old win98 joke

[Mr.Fibbles]

You are using Windows 98?!?!?! Of course, my website has been viewed by someone on Windows 98 with IE 5 (Why? I have no idea).

Anyway, you asked about talking to computer illiterates....

I work in tech support for the library (sort of) here at school so things get interesting sometimes. I have also worked as a lab assistant or whatever it is called for extra cash (I can work up to 20 hours a week during the semester and I only get 10 with my main position). I have gotten used to just solving the problem and not saying anything. If for some reason I have to explain something, I try to use small words and be as nice as possible but some people really are just stupid.
The most fun is printers:
We use HP 8150s in the library which has a big green button that if pressed will put the printer "offline." Some people mash buttons in impatience so then they ask why it won't print. I hit the green button taking it out of offline state and it prints. I got tired of explaining why they broke my printer and just fix it.

[Waiter]

JR, you wouldn't have any hair left after a single day in tech support.

I once had an admin sending me a monitor that he claimed was "losing files in the word processor".

[Nessus]

I'm always sure to remind people on the phone that turning off the monitor is not the computer. "Oh, you mean the CPU then?" Yeah the CPU, that big box near your leg.

What really bugs me is when I talk to my relatives who are like 12-20 years old and they are barely any better. You would have thought they would teach what RAM, Hardrive, CPU are in middle school. Knowing something about computers is no longer optional if you want to be a high functioning person.

[JR Ewing]

As a LAN admin, I'd have to say the better questions are:

1. Why is a bank (or anyone else for that matter) still running Windows 98, an unsupported OS?

2. Why would a bank not have an explicit policy disallowing employees from installing ANY software on their systems (and enforcing it by technical means)? They should be running a current OS that allows them to place restrictions on what an employee can do. Only people who work for IT should be installing programs on a business PC, based on company policy of whitelisted/blacklisted software.

With the obvious lax policy restrictions they have where you work I'm surprised you don't run into this kind of situation all the time.

Scream, I'll answer your questions to the best of my ability.

1. We are not a large bank like Regions or Bank of America, etc... We are a small institution that originally started at a local manufacturing plant in the 70's. Sometime down the road, we expanded to other employee groups. We've only been open to the community about 5 years now. This being the case, our budget is not as disposable. We just opened a new branch and we had two tellers trying to use one computer. The president didn't want to purchase a new computer so he took an old one from our operations person and set it up at the new branch. It's an OLD Gateway 2000 PC. We even have the beige keyboard, mouse, and CRT monitor to go with it, lol.

2. I'm sure they do, at least for the tellers. All the computers at the main branch office have updated XP machines running which are set up on limited accounts that lock out several areas. It only allows the user to login into our program that we use. The Win98 computer in question is the only one that we have. As you know, Win98 doesn't have the built-in ability to restrict the user from accessing certain areas.

It's a unique situation, I know. But as I said, we're small. We've been using the same banking software program for the last 20 or so years. I imagine it was originally a DOS program. There is no GUI - it's all text. Every screen we pull up, every command we punch in, uses a certain code. Very much like DOS did. Let's say I'm depositing a check. The customer brings me a $500 check, they want $50 in their savings, $350 in their checking, and $100 back in cash. Here's what I would type in on the screen.

12345678 CK 500.00 D 00 50.00 D 05 350.00 /

The number is the account number. CK is for check (CS would be for cash), D is for deposit, the 00 and 05 is the suffix for the type of account, and the slash at the end tells the system that it's the end of the command. Once we've entered the the commands we want, we press End to send it through. The system is smart enough to tell how much cash to give back to the customer.

Another good example would be if a customer comes in and wants to find out what has come through their checking account (check clears, debits, etc).

HSTM 12345678 S 05 2/

HSTM is the command to bring up account history. Past the account number, S 05 is the suffix for checking accounts, and the 2 is used so the screen will display the account history on 2 lines. This makes it easier to read the screen and it also includes extra details as well.

Anyway, my point is, you can see our system is very old. But it is still supported by a company in another state. It's actually not that hard to learn. I had it down pat on my first week.

So, they found the problem yesterday afternoon after hours of work. Apparently the company who supports our software had a power outage over the weekend and the IP addresses for our branch were not backed up and as a result, we could not even connect to the host server.

[peoplessi]

Yeah, that sounds really convinient... not.

[Bad Sector]

Actually this sort of interface isn't unique to your situation, its pretty common for systems developed before the Web2 craze. In fact most client-server systems for corporations (small or big) are done this way (text-based interface via a terminal or a text-based program talking via commands to some server). Newer stuff is done in a more modern language (usually C#) as a client program or via a web browser as rich client applications, usually running in the corporation's intraweb (in which case the implementation varies, but its usually Java).

[IwantMORE]

Reasons I will never work in Tech Support...

"I just clicked on exit now the box thing has dissapered"

Q: When I move the mouse to the right, it goes left. When I move it left, it goes right. When I move it up, it goes down, and when I move it down, it goes up!
A: try turning the mouse around so the buttons are at your fingertips

One customer complained that her mouse was hard to control with the dust cover on it. The dust cover turned out to be the plastic bag in which the mouse was packaged.

"I tried to save the document, but I think I did something wrong. All my computer did was put an icon on the desktop."

"This user has moved from Motherwell to Wrexham and has lost his Landmaster icon. Could it have fallen out of his PC when it was being moved? "

[KO Gilligan]

My daughter is in 2nd grade and they taught her the major internal and external components of a computer in Christian school this year. She is also keyboarding for one or two sessions a week (typing lessons). So I supplemented that with letting her see and hold the actual parts, ram, cards, cables and fans at home and went over their functions. She has also watched me throw parts together in a case, and is already wanting to do her own.

I can't say that this will stay with her, but kids are definitely getting a jump on technology now.

[Jiminator]

lol, you should just have given them the url to the web interface of your software... :)

wow, talk about old software...

[ReadOnly]

I once had an admin sending me a monitor that he claimed was "losing files in the word processor".

I'm sorry, you said the admin? Likem a LAN ADMIN?!

I'm always sure to remind people on the phone that turning off the monitor is not the computer. "Oh, you mean the CPU then?" Yeah the CPU, that big box near your leg.


Oh... And I thought it's only in my country...

[Steve]

I'm almost ripping my hair out reading all of this.

[Marty Chang]

Old link, but a lot of these are amazing. (http://www.rinkworks.com/stupid/)

Most of the time, when I talk to people I don't have that much of an issue explaining things. I like using analogies, usually referring to how the brain works or how a car works. Most people are generally eager to learn and understand how a computer works; nobody likes being left in the dark. The big problem is when you run into *******s who know very little about computers yet assume they're always correct. If a person just doesn't want to learn, you can't help it.

[Dopefish7590]

Oh man some of the questions people ask me... Tech support is a job that requires some serious self control. :doh:

[Jiminator]

I did tech support some 8 years ago. no real stupidities, aside from people taking a leak when you are talking to them. best moment was when I was walking a person through a nuke/pave, where you delete all drivers and reinstall tcpip. I had that crap so memorized I didn't need to look at anything, I would just tell them what buttons to click. a woman once asked how I could see her screen.... good thing I got out of that field, as all those jobs were outsourced....

really though you can't fault the users for being ignorant. they just want something that works, and will try to be helpful in their limited ways. for most people if a change happens and a system goes down then they will assume that the change was the cause. in cases like that it helps to carefully explain how things work and how they are not related and also to have them do stuff on their computer to "prove" it. things like ping or telnet or so on.

so the website making fun of people not understanding computer terms... doesn't do it for me. now some senator talking about internet tubes, well, he is a dumbass for making statements like that in a public speech. It'd be like me trying to explain physics to scientists...

[Dave-ros]

This weekend I will be tech-supporting a work friend, who owns one of these (http://www.ciao.co.uk/Reviews/HP_Pavilion_7946__5293148) that has just "exploded". Hmm, should I go all that way just to tell him "your computer's died of old age, get a new one and I'll copy your files over using my external hard drive box"? Or would that just confuse him, since he thought the box that sits under the monitor is the hard drive? :p

Hey, I was using a 200MHz computer until the end of 2003 ;)

[evanazzo]

Ugh I can't stand it. I hate being at school. An issue happens and they automatically come to me. Some of them are great. Take this one girl for instance. She couldn't get something to print and so I fixed it (she had the wrong printer on the network selected) when I got it to work she asked me to go back and show her what I did so she could do it herself later. That I like. People who want to learn so they don't bug me the next time. But most people just want it to be fixed. For instance. Asshat can't get word to align properly. I fix it and they just grab their paper and log off D: Not a word to me. The administration at our school is ******* retarded. I installed Firefox and the computer teacher noticed this. Banned me from the system for installing illegal software. WTF? So I thought **** this I still have a paper to do. I pull out my trusty Linux boot disc. Pop it in, run linux off the disc, and go back to doing my paper. Next thing I know I'm in the principals office for "hacking". Really? I'm hacking? I didn't know I could do that. :P ******* ignorance. To end my post I leave you with this, my favourite all time video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODDS07W-jCk Sales Guy vs. Web Dude - "The Website is Down!"

[Mr.Fibbles]

Evan, running a Linux Live CD is hacking, technically. I learned that you can bypass any and all of Windows' securities with a good Live CD (such as Ubuntu).

My favorite kind of tech support request are:
1. "It doesn't work"
2. "It won't start"
3. "It is broken"

The details they give are just perfect for know how to fix the problem....

[Steve]

I installed Firefox and the computer teacher noticed this. Banned me from the system for installing illegal software. WTF?

It's against school rules to install any piece of software without permission. However, it never stopped us from installing Quake, Doom 2, Duke3D and Shadow Warrior then play a good deathmatch in class :D

[shiranui]

Rtfm!

[IwantMORE]

My favorite kind of tech support request are:
1. "It doesn't work"
2. "It won't start"
3. "It is broken"

The details they give are just perfect for know how to fix the problem....

Well give the a choice then...

http://img.thedailywtf.com/images/200904/dh.gif

[Waiter]

I'm sorry, you said the admin? Likem a LAN ADMIN?!

Well, yes and no. Not exactly LAN-admin, but this guy was the head of the PC-department of one of the major swedish regiments... :o

[ReadOnly]

It's against school rules to install any piece of software without permission.

I wonder, why people even able to install something. Aren't they supposed to be users? How many viruses are there if everyone is working with admin rights? And it's in the school/college where PCs aren't, so to speak, personal. College/school is the most appropriate place for a lan-admin to go totalitarian on all users. That's the only way to treat users anyway.

[Mr.Fibbles]

I wonder, why people even able to install something. Aren't they supposed to be users? How many viruses are there if everyone is working with admin rights? And it's in the school/college where PCs aren't, so to speak, personal. College/school is the most appropriate place for a lan-admin to go totalitarian on all users. That's the only way to treat users anyway.

We let students be admins locally on computers here at school. However, the machines have DeepFreeze on them so any changes made are lost (unless you install Warcraft 3 on the "thaw" drive)*. It is useful and I think it is a good compromise. The reason is so when you log in (via Active Directory) your printers are installed and such.




*I kid you not, those Asian kids always install WC3 or something and are playing it in the Library or lab all the time. Of course, WC3 takes up like a third of the space on the drive so when I want to save my important paper temporarily and for some reason the drive is full....I delete the game.

[ReadOnly]

We let students be admins locally on computers here at school. However, the machines have DeepFreeze on them so any changes made are lost (unless you install Warcraft 3 on the "thaw" drive)*. It is useful and I think it is a good compromise. The reason is so when you log in (via Active Directory) your printers are installed and such.

Those printers can't be installed by the system itself? I don't see the reason to give students an administrator rights. But Deep Freeze is at least a some way around. But if some malware was installed then it'll stay there until reboot. So, more computers might be affected.

If someone has an administrative rights locally, he can quite easily become a.d. admin. Though, you'll need an actual admin to login to this machine. But if he does...

I don't know. Users as a local admin is big no-no.

[evanazzo]

We're not really admins but we can install some things. I can install FF but it wont let me install flash player. I have to install things onto the "H" drive. Anyway back to topic :P

[Mr.Fibbles]

Those printers can't be installed by the system itself?

We image over 80 laptops for public use and well over 100 desktops. The printers are added via Group Policy over the network and the print queues are on the network. It is complicated system (overly, perhaps) and apparently, everyone needs to be local admins or something with some rights for it to work correctly. We were having serious issues with printers not installing etc when basic accounts weren't given admin privileges.

This school doesn't have a real computer science program (nominally it does) and the extent of the technical skills as far as students go is knowing how to install Windows or doing some Mac stuff. I may be the most tech inclined student on campus and I'm not sure what you are talking about how a local admin on the computer can be an a.d. admin...that doesn't make sense.

[Destructor]

I installed Firefox and the computer teacher noticed this. Banned me from the system for installing illegal software. WTF? So I thought **** this I still have a paper to do. I pull out my trusty Linux boot disc.

Why the heck did you need Firefox or Linux to do your paper? I can understand you want to use software you prefer but is it really worth the risk of having people think you're up to no good? :confused:

[Mr.Fibbles]

he is trying to be all hip and cool geek by using Firefox.


Really, just use what you have available to you. The only time I install anything on a public machine is to use Flash or some plugin for a web site.

[hightreason]

Damn computer iliterates, they irritate me (Compters are something you need to know about in the modern world)
My mam used to know nothign about computers, that annoyed me somewhat, my dad was the same and i had to fix his computer every other day.

Who uses FireFox... Pah, ram heavy garbage, Konqueror FTW, or if im in windows i use Maxthon.

Hehe, your bank must be real secure if it's on win 98. With the security on that you could easily stel some coins into your bank account :D

[evanazzo]

Our network is slow as hell. I like using Firefox to research shit because I find it responds a bit faster. And I used linux to get to a word processor when I was banned from the schools network

[Nimoy]

My computer teacher is a moron, and I can pretty much hack into any damn thing he tries to get past me.

I installed about 15 different games on most of the computers.

[rev6605]

I build and fix PCs, (starting my own buisiness). you wouldnt believe the calls i get.
"I want a brand new computer."
ok...
"can you ship me one?"
what do you want in it?
"i want it to be fast, like, state of the art"
what are you going to be doing in it?
"looking at the internet"
any gaming?
"no"
programming?
"no"
website design?
"no"
picture or video editing?
"no"
do you realize this company builds custom gaming computers?
"what does that mean"
it means it will cost you $3000 to browse the web.
"ok"
..................... -.- idiots.

[Mr.Fibbles]

In these tough economic times...I'd say you can afford to screw them over a little and charge them $3000 to browse the internet. I see it as evolution. The stupid shall be poor and the smart shall benefit from their stupidity.

[Marty Chang]

In these tough economic times...I'd say you can afford to screw them over a little and charge them $3000 to browse the internet. I see it as evolution. The stupid shall be poor and the smart shall benefit from their stupidity.

I agree. However, I want to start a business selling new/refurb/used computers at budget prices for lower-class families, built for browsing the internet and light gaming. Prices would go from $50-$100 to $250. A lot of the time, we talk about the Digital Divide as if it only exists in third-world countries, but there's still tons of people out there without access to a computer or to the Internet. That's the equivalent of not having a phone number today.

[Dopefish7590]

My computer teacher is a moron, and I can pretty much hack into any damn thing he tries to get past me.

http://i2.ytimg.com/i/ilz3PTMR4URfxq6UeRRL9Q/1.jpg
HHHHAAAXXXX!

But seriously, I know what you mean... These forums are blocked but all I need to do is use Google language tools to browse. -_-

I even found out the filter password through an exploit on milw0rm... So I can unblock stuff... Deepfreeze was also easy to get past.

[ReadOnly]

I may be the most tech inclined student on campus and I'm not sure what you are talking about how a local admin on the computer can be an a.d. admin...that doesn't make sense.

Being a local admin on the computer, you can insert specific script(cmd file will suffice) to run when anyone login to this computer. So, when active directory admin login on this computer(for example you asked him because "something isn't working"), this script will run with an a.d. admin rights. And every command that you have in this script will be able to make huge changes to active directory.

[Jiminator]

I agree. However, I want to start a business selling new/refurb/used computers at budget prices for lower-class families, built for browsing the internet and light gaming. Prices would go from $50-$100 to $250.
good luck man, sounds like a great charity project but not something you can make a living off of. there is no margin to be had on computer parts.

[IceColdDuke]

Haha you don't know computer illiterate till you have been in the marines, and had to work with the civies on base :). "The monitor is black and won't turn on...is it plugged in? No. Well why isnt it plugged in, well I brought a pet rat on base and chewed threw it. *walk over to MWR*, well I need a power cord, sorry we don't have anymore :|".

[Destructor]

And I used linux to get to a word processor when I was banned from the schools network

Oh, sorry, I misssed that bit. :doh:

[Marty Chang]

good luck man, sounds like a great charity project but not something you can make a living off of. there is no margin to be had on computer parts.

You'd be surprised what you get when you ask companies to give you their old computers. Many of them are still usable for browsing the Internet. Also, fishing through landfills. A ton of people just throw away their old computers when something goes wrong, when it's easily fixable.

[IwantMORE]

http://thedailywtf.com/Articles/An-Unlikely-Network-Outage.aspx

Now that's a classic

[Hudson]

http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/7381/fishslappingdance.jpg

[hightreason]

When selling computers to lower class cheap was mentioned, that's a fab idea, and it does work.

On my council estate the council did it (they were old Cyrix systems and stuff) and geve us all the internet.

Hehe, i just thought - computer iliterates annoy me (not those that don't have a computer, they have a good reason to know nothing ... yet) but half of my damn website is devoted to them :D
http://www.freewebs.com/hctreason/securitydefyingdownloads.htm
Basically breaks security restirctions (At least it did in college :D - it was also good at getting me disciplinaries, as is said on my forums: here (http://www.freewebs.com/hctreason/htforums.htm?forumID=1765607&page=1&topicID=894455))

God, that was fun, watching all the nooby people loading that page in the college library, i never uploaded my DeepFreeze stopper and my one to break the restrictions on the internet.

Edit: Hmm, don't think they actually work on Vista.

[Mr.Fibbles]

I even found out the filter password through an exploit on milw0rm... So I can unblock stuff... Deepfreeze was also easy to get past.

Deepfreeze is only active when Windows is up so using a Live CD is the easiest way to bypass it (and I showed this as proof of concept to my boss). I know the admin passwords (well, I have a list of possible passwords and combinations) and here, with a few exceptions, we use some fairly secure passwords. Of course, I don't go to a big school with any real computer programs so most people here are pretty weak at computer literacy.


@ReadOnly:
That is interesting and I'm sure if someone really wanted to, they would know how to do what you described. Of course, most people aren't smart enough to bother with it and there isn't much to gain really unless you know where stuff is. Being a network admin on our network probably wouldn't do much good unless you have access to some of the tools (which we don't have installed or accessible on public machines).

[ZuljinRaynor]

i use Maxthon.

I broke out laughing.

[tpz]

more on the subject of computer iliterates:

http://www.thewebsiteisdown.com/

Click on Sales Guy vs WEB DUDE if you want to have a laugh...

[ReadOnly]

That is interesting and I'm sure if someone really wanted to, they would know how to do what you described. Of course, most people aren't smart enough to bother with it and there isn't much to gain really unless you know where stuff is.

Yes, there isn't much to gain, but those are students. Either to prove they're 'hackers' or just for fun.

[Mr.Fibbles]

more on the subject of computer iliterates:

http://www.thewebsiteisdown.com/

Click on Sales Guy vs WEB DUDE if you want to have a laugh...

I've seen that before, it is always worth another viewing...

[hightreason]

I broke out laughing.

Why? I don't understand what's funny. :confused:

[Marty Chang]

Why? I don't understand what's funny. :confused:

The fact that you're using such a shit browser.