Question to Remedy

[Claws]

Are you guys using the same engine for Max2? Have you developed new tools for the sequel? I honestly hope that the characters will be more detailed than the first game. And please tell me there will be lip synching and facial movement.

[MikaRMD]

NOW...is not the time...

[Sample_H5-180]

Thank you, Mika.

I could go into various n00b insults, but for once, I'll talk some sense. Do you really think they have all that shit figured out? It's going to be a LONG time before ANY of us gamers lay our hands on the copy, which means that the GAME is being DEVELOPED for a LONG TIME. Got that? Should I use smaller words? There's a good chance that there'll be facial movement, and the engine thing is just a stupid question. They've barely had time to figure stuff out, and it's not likely that, even when they do, they'll be incredibly public about it. Just think MP1.

[SkavenRMD]

What about facial moving?!

[Cathome]

Huh, I dont notice facial movement, I keep distance to everybody in MP. Seriously, for it doesnt matter. I will play MP anyway.

[Hatch]

Why would they need another engine? The engine from Max Payne can compete with anything out there today (imo). Lip synching and facial movement? I hope Max isn't gonna sing in a music video! images/icons/shocked.gif

[Claws]

*sigh* Some kids are so eager to flame. It's a simple question, will Max Payne2 use the same engine and Tech? Or will it use an updated engine?

No need to go off topic and talk about release dates and what not. I know that it will take a long time to arrive. But it is a well known fact that PC game developers always create the technology for the game first. And so it is very possible that the people at Remedy already know what they're aiming for (Tech wise).

The only reason I'm asking this is because YOU guys announced that it will be coming around 2003. When compared to the first Max Payne, this sequel seems to have a much shorter development time, that in turn makes me wonder if this will be a true sequel or more of an expansion pack.

[PetriRMD]

Originally posted by Claws:
When compared to the first Max Payne, this sequel seems to have a much shorter development time, that in turn makes me wonder if this will be a true sequel or more of an expansion pack.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It's a brand spanking full blown new game (and then some). Let's just say that since we have the tech developed we don't have to re-invent the wheel this time and have been able to make a lot faster progress, but as mentioned earlier we don't want to go into details yet.

[Darkblade]

People just don't seem to get it that building a new game engine from scratch takes helluva lot of time.

[Claws]

People just don't seem to get it that building a new game engine from scratch takes helluva lot of time.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Exactly. It takes a long time to create a new engine, and so this means they will be using the same technology for Max2. This, in turn, makes one conclude that Max2 won't be much different from the original, same gimmicks??

I'm only asking this because I was actually disappointed with Max Payne. I mean I loved everything about it... It's just that it became very repetitive midway through the game. I was only able to finish the game after installing the Kung Fu mod... I am simply trying to tell you guys to INNOVATE.

Make it fresh, I don't want Max Payne with different levels. This is by no means a rant or anything of that sort... Time will tell I guess.

*Sigh* I can't believe I'm the only one that feels you guys are rushing this.

[ 06-06-2002, 10:18 PM: Message edited by: Claws ]

[PetriRMD]

Originally posted by Claws:
[QUOTE]This, in turn, makes one conclude that Max2 won't be much different from the original, same gimmicks?? <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Don't be so quick to jump into conclusions.

When working on Max1, we had to build a massive amount of "basic engine stuff" like collisions, tools, scripting, AI, sound libraries and so on.

We actually started working on Max1 from a totally clean slate and had to write even the most basic stuff from a scratch.

This time around we're working on top of existing technology, which is a totally different ballgame. Instead of writing the basic stuff, we can now work directly with more advanced things, pushing a lot further on the tools, tech and the gameplay.

[Hatch]

Petri that's great news!! I believe you when you say," It's a brand spanking full blown new game (and then some). " But saying that has me looking at my calander all the time! graemlins/hhg.gif

[Claws]

This time around we're working on top of existing technology, which is a totally different ballgame. Instead of writing the basic stuff, we can now work directly with more advanced things, pushing a lot further on the tools, tech and the gameplay .<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes this is what I want to hear. Thank you. Bullet time won't sell Max2 the way it did Max Payne. Gameplay is what matters.

[ 06-08-2002, 01:01 AM: Message edited by: Claws ]

[PinpointMarxMan]

Man, I cant for MP2.

[Omario]

They already have facial movements, well kinda, it's really four different face textures that keep on switching depending on the action: -Default
-Grin
-Wounded
-Death
It doesn't look that bad and I hope they keep the same concept, but I think the grin should be changed to more of a mean look, you know, a teath clenching look. Some of the grins are butt-ugly images/icons/grin.gif -M..cough..AX..uhgm..PAY-cough..NE- images/icons/grin.gif And actual mouth movements and eye brow lifting and all that shit like in Half-Life and in Soul Reaver 2 is just really not, how should I say it... MAX PAYNEish?

[Claws]

It can be Max Paynish if done right. Just because the first one had alternating textures for faces doesn't mean the sequel has to use the same crappy method or risk not being "Max Paynish." This isn't my main concern though... I'm just wondering how they would expand the gameplay. Will we just go around shooting some more people in Slomo? Will that be MP2?? That's just not gonna cut it for me. I want the game to be innovative. Expanded in every sense.

[ 06-13-2002, 10:25 PM: Message edited by: Claws ]

[Omario]

Well, here is a lot of unmaxpayneish things that would expand the gameplay and the game's story:
-Steal cars (and drive them!)
-Street fighting (not something like Street Fighter!)
-Dragging dead bodies so you won't attract attention
-Much more sofisticated AI (well, not really better, but different, you know, Rogue Spear style)
-Becomes some Sci.Fi. flying around, walking normally in bullet-time-matrix style
-The story becomes something Sci.Fi.
-Max can shape shift.
-Anything can be distructable (Red Faction)
[Which brings me to a point: The box (mAxpayne) says "everything is destructable, comes appart nicely..." and then shows a picture of max shooting at a car and making it blow up! 75% of my reason of bying max payne was to be able to do that! And you couldn't! Anyway, back to my list...]
-Have the same Metal Gear Solid feeling of sneaking around, putting your back on the wall, knocking, waiting till a guard comes AND KICK HIS ASS!!
-A LOT more weapons. I can understand as a modder how hard it is to model weapons but just try to put a little less effort into detail and more into quantiy!

That's really all my suggetions, they ARE JUST suggestions and not orders, don't tae me wrong here...

[Bruce Hamilton]

Originally posted by Omario:
-Max can shape shift.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">ROFLMAO! images/icons/grin.gif

Picture this... The police are closing in on Max and he has no place to run, so... Max shape shifts into a sofa bed.

[ 06-14-2002, 07:31 AM: Message edited by: Bruce Hamilton ]

[Guest]

...Or a hotdog, or an igloo...

[Omario]

Yeah, I think making Max Payne into some sci fi-matrix game would be amazing. Did any of you see Vanilla Sky? I didn't, but my friends said that it was hard to believe that the whole story was so sci fi and extreme fiction near the end. So Max Payne started out as non-sci fi but if the sequel is, it would be Grrrreat!!
[You know, the story writer is probably cursing at me right about now...] Anyvay...

EDIT: Well, if he could shape shift into objects, that would be cool, but, shape shifting as a mobster or something would also be cool. Just think about it, some mobsters are near you, you shape shift into a mobster and they will act as if you were one of them...

[ 06-14-2002, 07:40 PM: Message edited by: Omario ]

[SkavenRMD]

Omario, many of the things you suggested in your list have already been done in other games. To do those things, simply play those games. Wanna steal cars? Play GTA III. Want martial arts? Play Oni.

Many games, that have one singular neat feature, have it because the programmers and artists have focused a lot of effort into it - often at the expense of other aspects of the game. There is also a limit on how many such things you can put into a game with regards to memory and CPU usage. Not to mention, the amount of gameplay balancing work each feature brings with it. We'll have to wait a few good more years before today's gimmicks become standards.

I could place the question the other way around: If those things weren't in Max Payne, why did you bother to play it in the first place. Did something else perhaps draw you in? images/icons/smile.gif

[biXen]

If I got a dime for every time Skaven had to explain this I'd be RICH images/icons/grin.gif

[Claws]

I don't agree with Omario's list. Improved AI is a must. All the other suggestions seem like gimmicks to me. Like you said Skaven, all those features were done in other games. This is why you guys have to come up with something new for MP2. The same way Bullet time was new with MP1.

[shadow fox]

i dont care about all the lip sinquing s*** i'd be happy if i could even be able to shoot or jump in morse code. all i want to know is what is the original deadline i know these things change all the time but if i have to drop that radio tower on the chopper one more time because i blew all my cash on "max payne" and "rouge spear" and a joy stick that i cant even use on max payne, than im going to explode. so when is the deadline? graemlins/dopefish.gif

[ 07-06-2002, 07:24 PM: Message edited by: shadow fox ]

[shadow fox]

Originally posted by Bruce Hamilton:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Omario:
-Max can shape shift.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">ROFLMAO! images/icons/grin.gif

Picture this... The police are closing in on Max and he has no place to run, so... Max shape shifts into a sofa bed.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">id like to see the look on the cops face then

[sawn_off]

Originally posted by Omario:
Yeah, I think making Max Payne into some sci fi-matrix game would be amazing. Did any of you see Vanilla Sky? I didn't, but my friends said that it was hard to believe that the whole story was so sci fi and extreme fiction near the end. So Max Payne started out as non-sci fi but if the sequel is, it would be Grrrreat!!<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What do you think Max Payne 2 is? it's not "Max Payne 2: Matrix Sci-Fi", it's a fictional story set in the present after Max Payne with nothing to do with the future whatsoever. Maybe you should wait for the official Matrix Games only for X-BOX.