Michael Jackson dead?

[Mariamus]

According to tmz.com, Michael Jackson has died.

Is there any confirmation of this, other than tmz.com
Most other news sites just says he's in the hospital, but that it's very bad.

[ShadeEX]

CNN is sending Live about it now.. They've cancelled all regular broadcasting

And acording to CNN he is just hospitalized at UCLA Medical Center not dead..

Some news agencies have just jumped the gun so to speak.. His condition is so far unknown.

[Micki!]

I just heard about it this very second, is it really true ..?
I feel bad for the man if so, is there anything about what might have caused this ..?

[NutWrench]

I hope he gets the help he needs.

/nicest thing I could think of.

[ShadeEX]

He was rushed to the hospital with Cardiac Arrest, and the ambulance folk had to administer CPR because Jackson wasn't breathing when they arrived

---------- Post added at 12:21 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:18 AM ----------

They just said he is in a coma on CNN.

[unforgiven]

Unfortunately, he passed away :(

LA Times says :
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2009/06/pop-star-michael-jackson-was-rushed-to-a-hospital-this-afternoon-by-los-angeles-fire-department-paramedics--capt-steve-ruda.html

[Damien_Azreal]

Damn... Micheal Jackson and Farrah Fawcett in one day. :eek:

[ShadeEX]

CNN has not yet confirmed the death of MJ watching it now..

But yeah Farrah Fawcett and Michael Jackson on one day damn..

[Damien_Azreal]

(CNN) (http://www.cnn.com/2009/SHOWBIZ/Music/06/25/michael.jackson/index.html) -- Entertainer Michael Jackson has died after being taken to a hospital on Thursday after suffering cardiac arrest, according to multiple reports including the Los Angeles Times and the Associated Press. CNN has not confirmed his death.

CNN has yet to confirm, but the LA Times doesn't strike me as the type to put up a false statement about something like that.

[Amakou]

Holy shit.

~Amakou~

[Kit]

With reports of him preparing hard for the comeback tour it started to sound like he was getting it back together - in his oddly eccentric way. :(

Sad news.

[WoodenSword]

BBC live says unconfirmed reports say jackson died

[Damien_Azreal]

But yeah Farrah Fawcett and Michael Jackson on one day damn..

We also lost Ed McMahon on Monday. :( This is just a horrible week.

[hanged_man]

this is so sad :( RIP Michael

[ShadeEX]

We also lost one of our big actresses here in Denmark Helle Virkner not to long ago

So yeah celebs are dropping like flies.. Horrible :(

More on topic

CNN is showing alot of MJ's music videos in rememberence, they have yet to confirm his death

[Sang]

What the hell this is very shocking

[Simon Charles]

RIP Michael. :(

[ash678]

guess he couldnt beat it ?

[Mariamus]

If all you have to say is idiocy, just shut the hell up!

[Damien_Azreal]

If all you have to say is idiocy, just shut the hell up!

Agreed.

[ash678]

hey you cant expect people not to come up with jokes about this guy seriously

[Mariamus]

hey you cant expect people not to come up with jokes about this guy seriously

Which is highly inappropriate! He may have been weird, but he was a musical genius and a FATHER of 3 children! So show some goddamn respect! :mad:

[Taril]

Rest in peace.
I wish i could feel more sympathy but his public image, all the scandals and the way he looks kinda tarnished my view of him.

[ShadeEX]

@ash
For the love of **** show some respect man as the admins said

If people only want too post shit and joke about it this is not the time nor the place to do so..

So if anybody else wants to joke about this.. Keep it to yourself..

[Damien_Azreal]

hey you cant expect people not to come up with jokes about this guy seriously

No, but can expect decency and civility... if people want to make jokes they can do it somewhere else.

[ash678]

theres loads of paedophiles out there or people classed as.

they get told to rot in hell an hope to the most sickest death or be other shit.

but because this guy is fameous treatment is differnt ?

[Damien_Azreal]

ash, I'm going to ask nicely.... please either let it go and just stop posting in this thread.

[Amakou]

Which is highly inappropriate! He may have been weird, but he was a musical genius and a FATHER of 3 children! So show some goddamn respect! :mad:

He's probably just too young to remember Michael Jackson for he was.

RIP - The King of Pop.

~Amakou~

[ShadeEX]

CNN just confirmed MJ is dead from the coroner..

R.I.P. Michael

[Mariamus]

My musical childhood died today. :(
I was 9 years old when I got my first CD, which was MJ's Dangerous. That album has always had a very special place in my heart.

[bazboyz]

Seem like they droping like flies today with Farrah Fawcett passing away as well
R.I.P. M.J you be miss by your fans and family

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

This is ridiculous censorship.

You guys and girl need to stop deleting posts.

[Nessus]

Damm, that was out left field. I'm guessing opiate overdose, I suspect he's been addicted for decades.

[SpinX]

grimm year 2009 is...

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

http://www.southparkstudios.com/episodes/103885

[Marty]

this is very sad.
one of the very few pop artists I enjoy listening to. we wont have such a personality again.
RIP

[Babe]

Very very sad news indeed :(.

[8IronBob]

Damn... Micheal Jackson and Farrah Fawcett in one day. :eek:

...and Ed McMahon earlier on this week. Man, Hollywood celebs have been known to die in threes, but boy, when it's three of the biggest names out there, it's just something that...boy, I just can't explain it.

[John]

8IronBob is right, every year it seems like celebrities die in threes. Last year it was Bernie Mac, Isaac Hayes and in my nerdy opinion Tim Russert. This week it's McMahon, Fawcett and Jackson. :(

Regardless of his personal and legal problems, the man has the highest selling album of all time and diserves more respect than he's gotten. I'm still on the fence about the court battle - I don't see a room full of jurors letting him go because theyre fans, that's for sure.

Thriller will always be a classic.

ash, I'm going to ask nicely.... please either let it go and just stop posting in this thread.

The guys been warned three times and you give him an ultimatum to leave the thread? :p

[hanged_man]

i feel like a part of my soul has died with him, i was raised on Michael's music, a very beautiful part of my childhood memory. And with the announcement of his concert in the u.k and been planning to attend it, i started listening again to his music and appreciating it even more. God this is a very sad day. RIP Michael Jackson :(

[8IronBob]

Well, guess that'll certainly get a lot of people to buy Jackson's best off of iTunes in respect for him. I may join up with that bandwagon, too, perhaps. It's been too long since I heard any good MJ tunes. The best ones I know of are Man in the Mirror, Beat It, and Thriller. Of course, there were just too many tracks, most of the best come from the '80s, no doubt about it. Bad and Thriller were his two biggest albums ever released, and most thought of. I remember that with the old LP days. Wow. Bringing back too many of my favorite tunes from my childhood days. This IS a sad, yet a very powerful flashback moment...wow. :( R.I.P.

[Caine]

the biggest musicstar died, no one could or can ever reach him...

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

This guy was cool in the 80's, but since then he has just been a freakish weirdo.

[John]

Who with any ounce of credibility or morality for that matter did that on a grand stage?

Actually, I take it back. One made music and was accused of touching kids, the other painted pictures and killed 6 million jews. I guess I can see the resemblance from a strawman's point of view. ;)

[Yenji]

Wow talk about your lack of respect for the dead. I think most of us can agree that we don't agree with his actions in recent years, but this is still gigantic loss.

Last time I checked Thriller was already the best selling album of all time by a long shot. It's sales (and his other albums) will likely skyrocket now

[Kit]

The people in this thread have acquitted him! Just look! Everyone's going, "Oh my God, Michael Jackson, King of POP!!!!!" If that's not going to create bias, nothing is.

He was the king of pop, that’s undeniable.

As far as the other stuff is concerned, I imagine they’ll be revelation after revelation in the following weeks, so until then I’m on the fence.

[Phayzon]

Wow... total shock here. :eek:

RIP Mike :(

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

A mentally-deranged paedophile, who destroyed his face and treated his own kids like crap?

The past 2 decades MJ has been out there.

[dan2091]

Which is highly inappropriate! He may have been weird, but he was a musical genius and a FATHER of 3 children! So show some goddamn respect! :mad:

About him being weird. I was discussing it with my ladyfriend, and came up with some points. He had skin cancer all along (though it isn't the reason of his dead). The way he showed up on the streets or things like that, he may have had cancer for a long time now, and the heart arrest he had may have been also because of low healthy, probably because of threatments for the cancer.. who knows, maybe not. I'm trying to make a point, I'm not joking by the way.

Said that, the reason of his clothing is just because of that, man, or maybe he wanted to stay away from the media to hide the cancer (you know, to have some privacy). I'm not accusing him, I'm trying to explain why he seemed weird, and all this is a point of view.

Anyway, I'm not a fan of him. But I respect him all along.

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index.jhtml?title=intro-dangling-baby&videoId=111722

[John]

Cardiac arrest, not confirmed whether it was a heart attack or not.

Many people (news and otherwise) are saying Michael Jackson's drug habits were worse than Anna Nicole Smith's, and that he could have overdosed. If that's the case, Nessus wasn't far off base then.

[dan2091]

Ok, but skin cancer is.. it may have been also a factor for his heart attack/cardiac arrest. Chemiotherapy lows you down, your strength, everything, and maybe he didn't want to go public with it because of the concerts. Think about it, he may have also had some breathing issues and singing may have tired him, maybe that's why he asked some recognized artists to participate in the canceled shows.

About the drugs, well.. I don't have nothing to say.

[MegaMustaine]

Chemo therapy doesn't bleach your skin white, and make you have nose job after nose job. The guy was loony, and had some bad drug habits to boot.

[dan2091]

That's not what I meant. He had skin cancer before his dead, I'm not saying anywhere chemio made his skin white :doh:

Well, if they don't want to go public, it's their personal decission. When David Carradine died, some relatives from him said he was killed by ninjas, etc.. If he was masturbating or not, obviously, his family didn't wanted to go public with this situation, and if pictures were leaked, well, won't you feel ashame if your wife/husband died because of a reason like this? even worse, would you like that everyone knows about it? I can understand that from Carradne family, but saying crazy ninjas killed him wasn't a good move, it could create questions that have no answers for fans. Well this is off-topic, but I said it with all respect I can have from him.

My respect for both, Jackson and Carradine.

[DerricktheW]

Well he's away from all the ridicule now

This funeral is gonna be as big as Diana's

[MegaMustaine]

Where is your evidence that he had skin cancer? The guy had big ******* mental problems, that contributed to his physical problems. Pills don't help things either, which is more than likely what killed him.

[dan2091]

You're right on what you said, the things he did wasn't for a guy who was mentally right. About the drugs, well.. I guess you're right too.. but, about the cancer, I'm speculating and trying to shift it with his dead, there where news about his cancer if I'm not wrong.

Anyway I said it was a factor, not the ultimate reason. Who knows?

[rev6605]

i no saying this makes me an ass but...
XD

i never liked him or his music. but i guess i shouldnt take bad about the deceased.... gl jackson??

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

http://www.time.com/time/arts/article/0,8599,1907269,00.html?xid=rss-fullnation-yahoo

The tragedy of Michael Jackson's death at age 50, reportedly from cardiac arrest, pales in comparison to the tragedy of his life. To understand all that Jackson had and lost requires wiping away three decades of plastic surgeries that deformed him, erratic behavior that made his name synonymous with the warping powers of fame, and a 2005 trial for sexually abusing a child that, even though he was spared of any finding of wrongdoing, made him a pariah to all but the most brainwashed of fans.

click the link for more.

[ReadOnly]

i no saying this makes me an ass but...
XD

i never liked him or his music. but i guess i shouldnt take bad about the deceased....

Ultimately you can. But now is not the time for this.

[MegaMustaine]

Last time I checked Thriller was already the best selling album of all time by a long shot. It's sales (and his other albums) will likely skyrocket now

According to the article Mr. Carbon Rod posted and much to the dismay of a Mr. Jeffrey Lebowski, it is actually The Eagle's greatest hits which is the best selling album of all time.

[Mariamus]

Stop turning the thread into a discussion about pedophilia! That is not what the thread is for!

[wayskobfssae]

Stop turning the thread into a discussion about pedophilia! That is not what the thread is for!

My apologies. It's just that the "He's weird, so he MUST have done it" argument has really gotten old and I'm done putting up with it.

[JobivanHiob]

OMG :o I just woke up early today drunk a coffee smell the fresh air outside the house and turned on my PC to read THIS! :(

I'm very sad right now! I was so hyped for his comeback! I thought he will get back to his old strength in making beautiful music!

This day is even worse than the day 3D Realms layed off their devs! :(

Michael you brought the music into my life and I had so many good moments with your wonderful music, you will be forever in my heart! :love:

[hellchicken]

Regardless of what he did or did not do, his death is that of a significant and relevant artist. A sad event.

He will be missed.

RIP Michael Jackson.

[MegaMustaine]

There is no way in hell he was still relevant to anything.

[ShadeEX]

God damn it. A man has died and some people can't for some reason give prober respect for the dead. :mad:

Shure he did stuff as of late that was weird, but he is dead now.

And you can't deny the impact his old music had on the world.

This thread is not meant for people to trash him, it was meant to report on a man who died.

So if poeple don't have anything nice too say then GTFO and STFU.

[Joel]

This is no doubt a major historic news event. Think along the lines of Lennon, Presley and Diana.

You don't have to be a fan of Michael Jackson to pay respect to his passing. All you need is an interest in music and some compassion for a human being. I've heard some pretty tasteless jokes around the place today and it's sad.

I must admit though, more than Michael or the industry, I grieve much more for his children and immediate family. Through all the good times and the bad times they have stuck by him. 2009 was no doubt going to be an exciting year for the Jackson family with the Farewell Shows in London this year. It's a shame none of that will be realised.

But yes, it's finally time to put all the tabloid nonsense to rest for just a moment and realise just how much of an icon Michael Jackson was (and is) to the industry. To me, this will be one of those moments in history where I remember where I was, what I was doing, who I was with and what I was wearing.

It was strange. I was at work early this morning and sitting with two other colleagues watching some television. In passing one of them mentioned that Jackson had been rushed to hospital. I brushed it off saying "oh yeah, it's Jackson, he'll be out in no time." Then literally, at that very second, a banner comes up down the bottom of the screen: "Michael Jackson is dead" followed by crossing over to see a birds eye shot of the hospital he was in. We were seeing it unfold live...at that very second.

I will NEVER forget that. Ever.

Rest in peace.

[lordlonelobo]

I never really liked Michael Jackson. Couldn't find the appeal, I don't like his music. But I can realize his influence, and despite not liking his music, he was evidently a genius in his genre, as he's sold extremely well.

Personally, I'd say there were more talented people than Jackson (such as Lennon), but anyone would realize that Michael was definitely a notable mention.

[Joel]

As a tribute, since I don't own any MJ albums, i'm currently listening to Paul McCartney's "Pipe's of Peace" which Michael featuers on 2 or 3 songs.

It's a shame this has made me stop to think...MJ's music is pretty special.

[Lethe]

R.i.p.

[Mr Bear]

Cardiac arrest, not confirmed whether it was a heart attack or not.



Maybe his heart just couldn't

Beat it


On a serious note, RIP. One of the greatest geniuses ever to have lived.

You gotta feel so sorry for the guy. It broke my heart to read about how miserable he was. :( I know he's in a much better place now.

Unfortunately, I'm willing to bet this tragedy will turn into a repeat of Elvis-type conspiracy theories, "MJ is still alive," etc.....ugh.

[hanged_man]

I think his cause of death is that he pushed himself physically beyond the limits, we all know that he had a physical trainer to get him back in shape for the o2, could it be what killed him !!!
Also, i kind of wonder what will happen to his 3 little kids, very sad :(

[Crosma]

Also, i kind of wonder what will happen to his 3 little kids, very sad :(Judging by photos/reports/etc. of how he treated them, hopefully they'll be all the better for it.

[Joel]

I think his cause of death is that he pushed himself physically beyond the limits, we all know that he had a physical trainer to get him back in shape for the o2, could it be what killed him !!!

There is rumour that alongside the physical preparation for the O2 shows he was also taking copious quantities prescribed (legal) performance enhancing medication. This plus the fact that he has also got a history of an addiction to pain killers would have amounted to his deteriorating health.

In all honesty (and with absolutely no offence), i'm not surprised that he won't live beyond 50. To me, he hasn't looked physically or mentally healthy in 20 years.

[WoodenSword]

As a tribute, since I don't own any MJ albums, i'm currently listening to Paul McCartney's "Pipe's of Peace" which Michael featuers on 2 or 3 songs.

It's a shame this has made me stop to think...MJ's music is pretty special.


I wasn't fan of jackson either, but as an artist i really respect him, as a person i never really knew him to judge him.

As a tribute, i am currently watching youtube tutorial videos on "how to moonwalk" . There is also a moonwalk collection videos.He was great!

[Joel]

I've actually liked some of Michael's music for a while. I have to say that i've found it weird that when an artist dies it is usually followed by a slew of record sales...I have to say I might be amongst the population who do that this time around. I always wanted to get the History album but never got around to it.

It's strange how something like this makes you want to salvage the moments you felt you could have had isn't it?

[crunchy superman]

Now I'm not suggesting that he did, but if there was ever a celebrity who would fake his own death to escape the torment of public life . . . . .

[Mr Bear]

For months and months leading up to yesterday all of his family and personal aides have fought the heavy rumors of his ailing health.

Even as late as yesterday morning, people were working with his close assistants, arranging extra seatings for the O2 concerts in 2010. :o

While I don't think they were being 100% honest in calling him "perfectly healthy", I still doubt anyone saw this coming.

You gotta wonder what doctor gave him an intensive four hour physical and deemed him to be tip-top shape for his upcoming tour.

But none of that really matters anymore.

It's had pill to swallow; the world without MJJ. :(

I'm actually almost surprised that the sun rose this morning.

[ZaphodB]

People are giving too much respect in my opinion. It's never "nice" to hear someone died (with the exception of Hitler maybe), but this is one person who I do not respect. The interview with Ed Bradley was the "nail in the coffin" about MJ for me. Am I glad he's dead? No. Does he deserve my respect? No. The only thing I hope for is that he may find the peace in death he never could in life.

[Kit]

I don’t know, it’s not like he was a confirmed child molester like Gary Glitter ; a pedo musician who will receive no plaudits when he dies. Michael’s problems seemed pretty transparent (him being abused by his father) which adds legitimacy to idea he acted bizarrely to regain his missed childhood.

Now I'm not suggesting that he did, but if there was ever a celebrity who would fake his own death to escape the torment of public life . . . . .

I think Michael would fit in nicely (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eU-DAWveB_g). ;)

[MegaMustaine]

If he didn't pay the family 22 million he would have been a convicted child molester. I'm sorry, just because someone dies does not mean they deserve respect. If a conversation would have started about MJ a day before all this happened, people would have been talking about him in a much different fashion. It is interesting how death changes all of that.

[Mr Bear]

If he didn't pay the family 22 million he would have been a convicted child molester. I'm sorry, just because someone dies does not mean they deserve respect. If a conversation would have started about MJ a day before all this happened, people would have been talking about him in a much different fashion. It is interesting how death changes all of that.

It hurts me to hear this garbage. I've admired MJ my entire life. Had you opened a thread anytime prior to his passing I swear, with god as my witness, that I would have said what I am about to say now.

The multi-million dollar settlement MJ reached with his accuser's family does by no means make him guilty. At first glance it may seem that way, but take a closer look.

You must consider that by 1993(the time of the first charges), Michael had already begun his decline. People were criticizing his face and his alleged weird behaviors(mostly based on untrue rumors). His new album, Dangerous, I believe was nowheres near as successful as it was expected to be. The public was getting tired of him, and he started to become less and less respected and more and more ridiculed.

So on top of all that, a child who Michael had befriended decides to turn on him and claim that he's guilty of an unthinkable crime. Now the media is really having a field day.

Knowing how long and tedious trials can be, MJ decided to settle out of court just to make the whole thing go away.

Yes, 22 million(though I could've sworn I heard it was "only" 14 million) seems like a fortune. But it was literally a drop in the bucket compared to what MJ's bank account was at the time.

And chew on this: If he really was a child molester, would the parents of the allegedly abused boy have accepted the money?? To live with the knowledge that the man who sexually violated their son was walking a free man??

The 1993 and 2003 cases both involved some very kooky people(I mean the plaintiffs, damnit!!!).

They were exploiting a rich, famous, yet somewhat naive man; trying to leech money from him out of their own greed.

The mother of Gavin, from the 2003 case had tried unsuccessfully to suck dough out of a good few other celebs before MJ, including Jay Leno and Adam Sandler.

Do some research....you'll see how non-credible and unstable the accusers were.


The only victim is Michael himself.

[Rider]

That reminds me of this song I saw on youtube a while back. Something to the effect of "Even wankers turn to gents when they die"...?

[Pikachu]

How Michael's estate will resolve his outstanding debt:

1. They will sell him to Disney, who will add animatronics and place him in Epcot.

2. They will melt down his plastic body and turn him into LEGOs so the kids can play with HIM for a change,

3. They will finally seek legal action against Michael's unlicensed appearance as Ari in the 2001 movie "Planet Of The Apes".

4. They will sell the Neverland Ranch name to Hidden Valley because it sounds far more secretive (though who would want to eat Neverland Ranch dressing?).

5. They will auction off his prosthetic nose.

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

The only victim is Michael himself.

Get some perspective.

http://www.time.com/time/arts/article/0,8599,1907269,00.html?xid=rss-fullnation-yahoo

The man was a loon who had an unhealthy obsession with children.

[bazboyz]

How Michael's estate will resolve his outstanding debt:

1. They will sell him to Disney, who will add animatronics and place him in Epcot.

.
I think they also add you have to be under 4' to ride michael
or disney will have thriller live with dead micheal as a zombie

[Mr Bear]

Get some perspective.

http://www.time.com/time/arts/article/0,8599,1907269,00.html?xid=rss-fullnation-yahoo

The man was a loon who had an unhealthy obsession with children.



Yes, I'm willing to admit that he made some rather unwise career moves. But I don't think he is a criminal in any way whatsoever. However, he was pretty smooth! ;)

But even the poor judgment calls on his behalf can be attributed to his childhood- or lack thereof.

Having performed ever since he could remember, he never had a chance to mingle with his peers as a youngster.

Most of his friends and associates were adults during the Jackson 5 Era. And in turn, many of those adults were either very controlling or just plain abusive.

As a 5 year old, his father beat the crap out of him and his siblings if they were to make a mistake during rehearsals. He lived his life being constantly scared shitless.

So once he finally broke free of his family and became a success on his own, he wanted compensate for all the lost time during his adolescent years. Neverland is a result of this desire, as well as all the children he touched and inspired.

THOUSANDS of underage persons have visited Neverland Ranch. Only 2 have come forward with claims.

The first one was due to a vendetta. The boy thought MJ wasn't spending enough time with him so he rudely complained about it and MJ eventually broke ties with the kid. As he had every right to do. Who does this kid think he is?? MJ didn't adopt him! He was nice enough to invite the kid to his house and give him hours of one on one attention letting him ride free in his amusement park and do pretty much whatever he wanted.....yet that still wasn't enough?? Does he not understand that other kids wanted MJ's attention and he couldn't devote his entire life to one boy??

So to get back at the popstar for "abandoning" their son, the parents decided they'd sue him for all he was worth. They knew nothing illegal had happened as did the boy. As does God.

And they hit the jackpot with MJ's financial settlement.

As for the 2nd case, it was pretty much a copycat of the 1st. The mother saw what happened in 1993 and took advantage of her dying son so she could cash in.

And this was also fueled by District Attorney Thomas Sneddon who had fought to put MJ on trial a decade earlier and had obviously failed. Sneddon is and was a corrupt man, who really tried to screw MJ over big time. MJ wrote a song about "Dom Sheldon"(what it says in the lyrics book, but you can clearly hear him say "Tom Sneddon") being a cold man, and expressing his anger for the former DA.

So when 2003 came up and the Bashir Documentary aired, Sneddon practically had an orgasm. This was his one chance to get even with the man who had "evaded the law" and wrote a silly song about him.

It wasn't even really about whether Sneddon believed MJ to be innocent or guilty. It was simply Sneddon's arrogance in wanting to be that one guy who got MJ convicted and won a guilty verdict. In other words, he thought it would advance his career.

There's a monumental difference between appreciating and caring for children and being a pedophile.

I'm 22 and I love being around young children. Is it because I want to **** them??? ****ing hell NO!!!!!! It's not even a factor in my mind. Zero sexual element. Nada. Zip. Zilch. People have fetishes for everything, so I can't really compare it to anything, but it's like my feelings for my toaster oven(in terms of level of sexual interest). I have an awesome toaster oven and I love it. I take care of it and help it. And it brings me joy in return. But sex is the last thing I'm thinking about when utilizing or maintaining my toaster oven. Yet it still makes me happy. Happiness and fulfillment can be measured in values irrelevant to sexuality.

MJ is deeply misunderstood. People see him and his fondness for kids and automatically think: CHILD MOLESTER!!

That's just plain ignorant. It's almost a relief to hear of his passing. It makes me believe that he is in a place right now where people will accept him and leave him the **** alone.

[MegaMustaine]

That's just plain ignorant.

Whatever you say Cartman.

[DerricktheW]

What, not even a small attempt at a rebuttal or anything to justify your opinion, but all you have to do is pick out a line he said and just make some joke about it?

[Tetsuro]

"Jackson has some great special moves, like using his hat as a boomerang, and forcing other people to dance, which increases their heart rate to the point where they die from a cardiac arrest. That's one good thing about Michael Jackson. His ticker is top notch.

Reviewer's Score: 7/10, Originally Posted: 02/20/03, Updated 02/20/03"

-GameFAQs review on "Moonwalker" on Sega Genesis

:insomnia:

[Mr Bear]

Told ya!!

http://trashselector.com/evan-chandler-i-lied-for-my-father-im-sorry-michael/



After the sudden death of Michael Jackson Evan Chandler tells the truth.
evan
In 1993, Chandler told a psychiatrist and police that he and Jackson had engaged in sexual acts that included oral sex, the boy gave detailed description of Jackson’s genitals. The case was settled out of court for a reported $22 million, but the strain led Jackson to begin taking painkillers. Eventually he became addicted.

Now maybe for the remorse of his death Chandler decides to tell us the truth. ” I never meant to lie and destroy Michael Jackson but my father made me to tell only lies. Now i can’t tell Michael how much i’m sorry and if he will forgive me ”.Evan Chandler was tape-recorded saying amongst other things, “If I go through with this, I win big-time. There’s no way I lose. I will get everything I want and they will be destroyed forever…

Under the influence of a controversial father (Jordan Chandler) told his son to tell that Jackson had touched his penis.Jordan Chandler then told a psychiatrist and later police that he and Jackson had engaged in acts of kissing, masturbation and oral sex, as well as giving a detailed description of what he alleged were the singer’s genitals.
” Now for the first time i can’t bare to lie anymore. Michael Jackson didn’t do anything to me, all was my father lies to escape from being poor.”

[DerricktheW]

Wasn't the kid Jordan Chandler and the father Evan Chandler, not the other way around like this article says?

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

I'm afraid Mr. Bear you are going to have to get the information from a more reputable website before I believe it. Trashselector.com just doesn't pass muster.

Not that it matters anyway, the guy is a weirdo for so many other reasons.

[MegaMustaine]

Told ya!!

http://trashselector.com/evan-chandler-i-lied-for-my-father-im-sorry-michael/

Too bad Evan Chandler was the father and this is a made up news story. Trust me, if this were true a more reliable news site would have had a field day with it already.

As for my rebuttal Derrick, I don't need to supply a rebuttal to the blind. It is clear as day that Jackson caused all his own trouble, and that he was a whacked out psycho. If you don't want to be accused of child molestation, don't sleep in the same bed with children who are not yours. OJ Simpson was a terrific football player, it doesn't change the fact that he is a POS. Same goes for Jackson. Doesn't matter what he accomplished with his music. Sure you can respect his music and the work that it took to get it recognized by so many people, but how anyone can actually respect the man is beyond me.

[DerricktheW]

Your opinion of the man is that he can't be respected, or that he's a weirdo.

Because he isn't Mr. Get a wife then have kids who will become football players/cheerleaders with a dog and a nice 2 story house, he's looked at as some freak.

His life got screwy because he never really got to have a childhood, instead being raped by the media and the like. I know when there's something I really missed out on when I was a kid that other kids always did, that any chance I get to do said thing, I'm all for it (like when I was extremely young, I never did sports all too much, just a soccer team every other year and I rarely went to concerts or shows, but now I try this as much as I can)

Jackson hardly ever had a childhood as they say, and so he saw nothing wrong with hanging out with his kids and their friends when they had a sleep over. And all it took was one single person in one moment to completely screw everything up. Sure, he looks a little weird and acted it too, but noone really saw anything extreme about it.

But once someone accuses him of being a child molester... BURN THE WITCH

Just because someone may give the impression of being different or a freak, doesn't mean they are. Look at Jeffrey Dahmer, Eric Harris, Dylan Klebold, Seung-Hui Cho and others. They were normal looking people with pretty normal lives and no one would really accuse them of doing anything (before they actually did)

[The Cool One]

If he didn't pay the family 22 million he would have been a convicted child molester. I'm sorry, just because someone dies does not mean they deserve respect. If a conversation would have started about MJ a day before all this happened, people would have been talking about him in a much different fashion. It is interesting how death changes all of that.
umm, if he paid the family 22 million, how would that change the jury's point of view?

[Grande 3:16]

You don't have to be a fan of Michael Jackson to pay respect to his passing. All you need is an interest in music and some compassion for a human being. I've heard some pretty tasteless jokes around the place today and it's sad. Yeah, yesterday one of the guys at work was making jokes all day, most of them pedophilia related. I was getting pretty annoyed, not because he's speaking ill of the dead but because there is nothing funny about pedophila.

For what it's worth I don't think he's guilty, and I'm not even a fan. Was his behaviour bizarre? Yes. Was it inappropriate? Definitely! But it doesn't mean anything happened. Drunk drivers kill people, therefore every drunk driver must be a killer. I think he honestly believed he was just a "kid".

[Crosma]

His life got screwy because he never really got to have a childhood, instead being raped by the media and the like.This is why, although I'm an objectivist, I recognise that almost any position can be argued.

That's also the argument for every bad person in history. In essence, your position is that no-one is evil. I agree with you, but don't agree that you can use it to validate people's wrongdoing.

I was getting pretty annoyed, not because he's speaking ill of the dead but because there is nothing funny about pedophila.Any comedian will tell you that no topic has nothing funny about it. Brass Eye's Paedophilia Special is one of the most hilarious pieces of television ever. It sounds like his jokes were just rubbish.

Drawn Together has loads of episodes about rape and paedophilia. Yes, they are funny.

[Nessus]

I just watched his 1983 Motown performance of Billie Jean. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15SxqqwF63U

I remember when this hit, it was the moment that made him a superstar. No one had ever seen a dance routine quite like that. Regardless of all of the ugliness in his life him and his sister Janet pretty much invented the modern dance performance that singers do now. Britney,Usher, Beyonce, Justin, whoever, they all owe a lot of moves to those two.

[Joel]

Yeah, yesterday one of the guys at work was making jokes all day, most of them pedophilia related. I was getting pretty annoyed, not because he's speaking ill of the dead but because there is nothing funny about pedophila.

For what it's worth I don't think he's guilty, and I'm not even a fan. Was his behaviour bizarre? Yes. Was it inappropriate? Definitely! But it doesn't mean anything happened. Drunk drivers kill people, therefore every drunk driver must be a killer. I think he honestly believed he was just a "kid".

Without dwelling on it or going to deep into it, I actually agree with this. Much of his talent is actually attributed to an abusive Father who apparently gave him the cane for every incorrect dance step. Michael has also reflected in interviews that he was deprived of a healthy childhood in terms of having friends outside of school, sleep overs, birthday parties, off to the movies with friends etc...

So it makes sense that he is living out his childhood now since he couldn't do it forty years ago. Yes, this is something as an adult he should of dealt with since he had removed himself from that situation and yes, by not confronting it head on he does contribute to the issue. That aside, the fact of the matter is that someone highly respected has died who is loved by millions. In a strange kind of way, I kind of consider myself a fan of the Jackson family in the way that my hearts are with them during this tough time.

As already expressed, it's fine not to have agreed with MJ and still not have a kind word to say, but just keep it to yourself (not you personally, just in general) as the timing couldn't be worse.

[ShadeEX]

Ugh just...

:lock:

This thread has preatty much run its cource thank you for ruining a thread about a dead person.. :rolleyes:

[John]

[edit] Nevermind post was deleted. :) I was just saying something about those with tact and those without it.

[8IronBob]

Well said, John and ShadeEX... There's just more speculations than facts running through this thread. And any facts I've seen aren't from the most legit of sources, for the exception of the OP. TMZ, Hollywood Zone, and Access Hollywood, and possibly Entertainment Tonight are the best sources to look through for now. I'd look for legit information about his death, rather than sites that post more rumours than anything else.

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

I posted links to time magazine.

[Drazula]

This is going to be one of those events where I remember where I was when I first heard it.

I can't say I was a Michael Jackson "fan". I certainly didn't like the person he was. But his music made people want to dance, and brought joy to millions. What more could you ask of any artist?

R.I.P.

[peoplessi]

Media ripped him apart, goes for the alleged "child abuse" stories too. He was acquitted for them. I'm not a fan, but he made some amazing music. That's undeniable, and he left a big mark on music industry. Truly a king of pop. Lived all his live under tremendous pressure - I can't even imagine how his life was. That's usually how it is for these famous musicians.

People don't know much about his private life, and are willing to go what is written in tabloids. That's fine, but I am not that quick to jump to conclusions. Media criticism would be needed for so many people.

[8IronBob]

Come to think of it, I believe I do have his "Thriller" album on vinyl. Bet that would make me a fortune off of eBay, but then again, I'll probably have to make digital backups before selling the LP, tho.

[Mariamus]

you want to make a fortune like this guy? (http://cgi.ebay.com/Michael-Jacksons-Thriller-Vinyl-Album_W0QQitemZ130315269157QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMusi c_on_Vinyl?hash=item1e57653425&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A16%7C66%3A2%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318%7 C301%3A1%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50) Or This douche! (http://cgi.ebay.com/14-RARE-VINYL-MICHAEL-JACKSON-ALBUM-COLLECTIABLES_W0QQitemZ270416771075QQcmdZViewItemQ QptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item3ef6187803&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A16%7C66%3A2%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318%7 C301%3A1%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50)

[John]

Jesus christ. A "Buy It Now" price of 1.5 million for 14 MJ vinyls...:o

[Grande 3:16]

you want to make a fortune like this guy? (http://cgi.ebay.com/Michael-Jacksons-Thriller-Vinyl-Album_W0QQitemZ130315269157QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMusi c_on_Vinyl?hash=item1e57653425&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A16%7C66%3A2%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318%7 C301%3A1%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50) Or This douche! (http://cgi.ebay.com/14-RARE-VINYL-MICHAEL-JACKSON-ALBUM-COLLECTIABLES_W0QQitemZ270416771075QQcmdZViewItemQ QptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item3ef6187803&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A16%7C66%3A2%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318%7 C301%3A1%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50)Back in 2006 when Peter Brock (a famous Australian race car driver) was killed, I immediately checked eBay. Memorabilia went from a few dollars to a few thousand dollars in about an hour.

[Lethe]

People don't know much about his private life, and are willing to go what is written in tabloids. That's fine, but I am not that quick to jump to conclusions. Media criticism would be needed for so many people.

I couldn't agree more.

[Kev_Hectic]

This is going to be one of those events where I remember where I was when I first heard it.

I can't say I was a Michael Jackson "fan". I certainly didn't like the person he was. But his music made people want to dance, and brought joy to millions. What more could you ask of any artist?

R.I.P.

This more or less sums up Michael Jackson for me. I enjoy his work as a musician and a performer, even though I feel that his later stuff became a bit too self indulgent and an excuse to just vent out at the media... but as a person, he was just hard to understand.

Though I'm not surprised how he turned out, Michael was born into a showbiz family and his parents pushed him and his other siblings into spotlight at very young ages. I don't think the guy ever really had a normal childhood, which led him into a messed up and erratic lifestyle as an adult. He was fixated with mutilating his face with plastic surgery, acted like a child and invited other peoples kids over for slumber-parties... the man just wasn't all there.

But anyway, it's amazing how much coverage his death is getting, it's almost like he was a part of the Royal Family or something.




Also, interesting, his music is completely dominating the worldwide sales charts at iTunes: http://www.apple.com/euro/itunes/charts/top10albums.html

And the same thing is happening at Amazon.com: http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers/music/ref=sv_m_3

:dopefish:

[Damien_Azreal]

Michael never had a chance at a normal life. Made a performer at age 5 he was thrust in front of the public way to young. And the big problem is... unlike most child stars, he didn't fade away and become slightly less popular.

He stayed in front of us, and grew more and more popular as time went on... putting even more focus on him. Giving his abusive childhood, lack of proper structure as he grew up... his insecurities and addictive personality, it's no surprise he was a bit eccentric.
And I agree with peoplessi completely. Nothing was ever proved to be factual and true... it was all accusations. People will say and do horrible things to get money, and given Michael's eccentric nature he made an easy target for such vultures. It's a simple matter of we can let these stories rest as we will never know the truth.

But personal life being what it was... as a musician he was brilliant. And incredibly talented singer, song writer, dancer and overall performer. I seriously doubt we will ever have another musician like him.
You can walk up to anyone on the street, say Michael Jackson and they would know who your talking about... you don't have that in modern performers.

[Crosma]

This is going to be one of those events where I remember where I was when I first heard it.I've genuinely already forgotten.

I don't understand the sycophantism at all. I don't feel that way even towards artists I do like, let alone monsters like Jackson. All this fawning is freaking me out. Just because he's dead! What the hell?

[Belgarrath]

Anyone that hangs their own baby over a balcony from five floors up deserves to be forgotten, at the very least. One slip and it would have been very, very bad.

[Grande 3:16]

The way he was holding it, his arm under the baby's arms, the baby wouldn't have fallen. Still a supremely idiotic thing to do though.

[Joel]

Today I visited 5 different music retailers looking for the History album...you cannot buy 1 MJ CD at the moment, all totally out of stock, not even anything out the back. Even the "Essential Michael Jackson" compilations are gone. I've never seen anything like this.

[Tualmasok]

Who the hell is Michael Jackson?

[The Dukenator]

Today I visited 5 different music retailers looking for the History album...you cannot buy 1 MJ CD at the moment, all totally out of stock, not even anything out the back. Even the "Essential Michael Jackson" compilations are gone. I've never seen anything like this.

Does that also include "Dangerous"? I still have that album in my collection for years, but rarely listen to it. Had it replaced with another copy some years back.

[Metal Boss]

Alot of trash spewn around in this thread. You guys are still blinded by the media circus, MJ was an innocent man. Honestly, RIP.

[Tualmasok]

I forget how the US legal system works... Presumed innocent or guilty? With a country that runs a sexy place such as Guantanamo, I can only guess at "Presumed Guilty".

If OJ was innocent with all the evidence against him, and MJ was innocent with the lack of evidence against him, I think that makes MJ very fkn innocent of molestation. If it was for real, there would be a plethora of claims, not just greedy money hungry trailer trash trying to source a quick buck.

[Amakou]

I forget how the US legal system works... Presumed innocent or guilty? With a country that runs a sexy place such as Guantanamo, I can only guess at "Presumed Guilty".

The United States is "Innocent until proven guilty."

~Amakou~

[Tang Lung]

MJ died a very, very long time ago. I believe he should be judged for the person he was before the madness set in.

[ReadOnly]

Why is that? Yes, as a musician he should be judged for his music(which is in the past).
But the person should be judged every time. You just can't say that "it was not him", "he died long time ago". Of course, in judging someone we shouldn't forget about all of the good/bad things he've done in the past.

[Joel]

Does that also include "Dangerous"? I still have that album in my collection for years, but rarely listen to it. Had it replaced with another copy some years back.

I mean EVERY. MICHAEL. JACKSON. ALBUM. All gone, not one left. Like I said, even if you want to buy a dodgy "Essentials" compilation, they're gone too.

[X-Vector]

Nowadays everybody wanna talk like they got somethin to say
But nothin comes out when they move their lips;
just a bunch of gibberish
And mother******s act like they know about MJ


Anyway, I'm one of the mf'ers that forgot about MJ years ago, even though I still gave Off the Wall and Thriller a spin once in a while.
His death and the whole media hysteria around it therefore doesn't really register with me, it certainly has nowhere close the impact it would have had if it had happened 25 years ago.

That's the time that he truly was the king of pop and that's the Michael Jackson and his music that I prefer to remember.
Some of that is nostalgia talking (I was an impressionable 11 year old when Thriller came out), but mostly it's the quality of the album that justified the hype, unlike his later work that just didn't have (a) soul anymore.

[Tang Lung]

Why is that? Yes, as a musician he should be judged for his music(which is in the past).
But the person should be judged every time. You just can't say that "it was not him", "he died long time ago". Of course, in judging someone we shouldn't forget about all of the good/bad things he've done in the past.

Because I don't believe that MJ when he was a proper musician is the same guy as when he went crazy. It's entirely my own opinion, but I believe MJ was just severly mentally ill. Not a pedophile.

I'll use a family memeber of mine as an example. I had an uncle who in life was a perfectly normal, hard working guy. When he was about 40 something he started acting odd and whatnot. I have no idea what was the cause or the name of what he had, but he went weird. He did odd things, and occasionally morally questionable things. I heard once he went outside his house naked (which wasnt a good idea since he lived near a school). He spent the rest of his days in a resthome for the metally ill. Now I can't really judge him based on those things he did at that time of his life. If he was a drug addict, then fine..addicts are aware when they shoot up or gulp down a pint first thing in the morning. The mentally ill are not.

I think it's the same thing with MJ. For whatever reason, his sanity string popped.

[ReadOnly]

His death and the whole media hysteria around it therefore doesn't really register with me, it certainly has nowhere close the impact it would have had if it had happened 25 years ago.


Just wanted to ask. When Freddie Mercury(:love:) died, what was the initial reaction? I mean in the media hysteria or whatever scale. Queen was pretty much at the top of their game.

[Orochi Avlis]

His dad speaks about the impact of MJ's death at the BET awards. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7im37UtGHkA)

This left me speechless. At least act like you care.

[Crosma]

When Freddie Mercury(:love:) died, what was the initial reaction? I mean in the media hysteria or whatever scale.
The media attacked him for being gay and promiscuous and getting AIDS for being gay and promiscuous. Most normal people I knew were just confused by the media's reaction, but there we are.

[Tetsuro]

The United States is "Innocent until proven guilty."

~Amakou~

Except in the eyes of the public.

[Amakou]

Except in the eyes of the public.

Well, isn't that a given? :p

~Amakou~

[Mariamus]

His dad speaks about the impact of MJ's death at the BET awards. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7im37UtGHkA)

This left me speechless. At least act like you care.

Oh. my. god. :doh: "we're fine. doing great" yeah, your son just died last week, I mean. why waste time mourning when you can promote your record company and make a lot more money. Hey, here's an idea, why not start training Michael's kids now? "The Jackson Juniors!"

[Crosma]

Hey, here's an idea, why not start training Michael's kids now? "The Jackson Juniors!"The mother is now saying that they're not his. Although we knew that anyway, what with them being white.

"It doesn't matter if you're black or white," does it, Mr. Jackson? I mean, if you go to great lengths to try to look white and greater lengths to have white kids, which you treat like crap.

[Tang Lung]

His dad speaks about the impact of MJ's death at the BET awards. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7im37UtGHkA)

This left me speechless. At least act like you care.

In most of the documentaries and such based around Michael Jackson, If they're based in reality atall, they all mention Joe Jacksons abuse of him. It's no wonder the guy got so messed up.

[KaiserSoze]

So I guess MJ died from food poisoning.

2 twelve year old nuts

:o

[Sang]

His dad speaks about the impact of MJ's death at the BET awards. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7im37UtGHkA)

This left me speechless. At least act like you care.

I also find it weird how the interviewer keeps asking questions when it's clear that Joe and his entourage wanted to leave.

Can't really find anything disgusting about this.. Sure his reaction is not personal and unemotional but that's not a crime.

[ZaphodB]

So I guess MJ died from food poisoning.

2 twelve year old nuts

:o

I spit my drink out when reading that! ;)

[Orochi Avlis]

I also find it weird how the interviewer keeps asking questions when it's clear that Joe and his entourage wanted to leave.

Can't really find anything disgusting about this.. Sure his reaction is not personal and unemotional but that's not a crime.
Of course it's not a crime, but that's his son and it's extremely disgusting that a person would put monetary gains in front of a loved one. Well, to me anyways.
Feel free to disagree, but that is the make of a horrible person.
All he can think of is MJ's assets, and not the fact that he died days prior.

I'm sure the interviewer had a set time with Joe, so they both had to do the song and dance.

[hanged_man]

His dad speaks about the impact of MJ's death at the BET awards. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7im37UtGHkA)

This left me speechless. At least act like you care.

That is so sad, i cant believe any father would be so cold like that and on top of that promoting his label record company.

Anyway, the autopsy results here for anyone who's interested:
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/2505693/The-shock-findings-of-the-Michael-Jackson-autopsy.html

[Superczar]

That is so sad, i cant believe any father would be so cold like that and on top of that promoting his label record company.

Anyway, the autopsy results here for anyone who's interested:
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/2505693/The-shock-findings-of-the-Michael-Jackson-autopsy.html

LOL, the Sun... :o

[ZaphodB]

Anyway, the autopsy results here for anyone who's interested:
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/2505693/The-shock-findings-of-the-Michael-Jackson-autopsy.html

You do know that that's a tabloid rag, and not a reputable news source, yes? They have posted headline front pages like "I had Elvis' baby 10 years after he died!"

[hanged_man]

You do know that that's a tabloid rag, and not a reputable news source, yes? They have posted headline front pages like "I had Elvis' baby 10 years after he died!"

lol sorry about that, i have no idea about this "Sun", i was just googling around for any info

[Sang]

it's extremely disgusting that a person would put monetary gains in front of a loved one.

That would be so but I didn't really get that impression. Perhaps advertising a label real quick was a bit out there but it didn't seem to me like he didn't give a shit. Maybe he's a kind of guy who's reluctant to show emotions, note his really short answers most of the time, like he was feeling stressed or insecure.

[Mr Bear]

The coroners who performed MJ's autopsy have come forth to confirm that sickening reports in "The Sun" were 100% inaccurate.


http://www.novinite.com/view_news.php?id=105159


Even though the weight of 112 lbs does sound like it could be correct, the tabloid editors have obviously just guessed, pulling the exact figures out of their asses.

Also, he was in much better than shape than most people think before he died.

Case in point:
Less than 24 hrs. before, he had been rehearsing for his tour and according to people who were present, Michael was dancing like the Michael from the 80's. Additionally, it was reported that he was out-dancing his 25 year old back-up dancers during the practice sessions!!!


Does that sound like man who is about to die the next day?? Really makes you wonder about this Dr. Murray character. I suspect he might know just a little more than he's letting out......

And he's already hired an attorney.:o

[Damien_Azreal]

And he's already hired an attorney.:o

That's not that shocking. Even if completely innocent of anything, having legal representation when involved in any way in something like this... it's possibly the best move he could make.

[Blue Lightning]

Mabey he told the truth about not messing with the kids?

I'm not a psychiatrist or anything...but mabey in some weird way he wanted to bring in kids to his ranch and just treat them extra nice because he was abused so bad, and treating a bunch of kids the way he wished he had been treated might of covered up the pain? I dont know, just a thought.

Anyway, how could the kids of been in danger otherwise? MJ was so frail he couldnt defend a toy store.

Man, his face was beyond strange...he looked like a whacked out alien. His dad is a jerk.

I prefer to remember the 1970's and early 80's MJ. Probebly he had more pure talent than anyone I have ever seen.

Anyway, RIP MJ.

[prophecy holder]

Shame people remember Michael through that obviously botched trail There was no proof or anything showing that he molested the child and thus was just greed on the parents part. Well we would also have thriller:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Xs9OQHpwDE

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

While that is true with the 2004 trial, the original 1993 trial only fell apart because the alleged victim refused to testify after he got his 20 million.

[prophecy holder]

While that is true with the 2004 trial, the original 1993 trial only fell apart because the alleged victim refused to testify after he got his 20 million.

Wonder why lol.

[Damien_Azreal]

Wonder why lol.

Because man.... bitch got paid! :rolleyes: The father of the child got what he wanted, money. Why testify and let people find out your full of shit after you've dragged somebody through the dirt and gotten what you wanted.

Michael was an easy target for such people. He's trusting, very childlike, was a bit eccentric and had cash.

I still believe, as I did back in 1993 and 2004, Michael didn't do anything.

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

Because man.... bitch got paid! :rolleyes: The father of the child got what he wanted, money. Why testify and let people find out your full of shit after you've dragged somebody through the dirt and gotten what you wanted.



Or the opposite is true.

[Crosma]

Because man.... bitch got paid! :rolleyes: The father of the child got what he wanted, money. Why testify and let people find out your full of shit after you've dragged somebody through the dirt and gotten what you wanted.
Wow. You don't know what a settlement is?

Tip: this is how settlements work!

[unforgiven]

Because man.... bitch got paid! :rolleyes: The father of the child got what he wanted, money. Why testify and let people find out your full of shit after you've dragged somebody through the dirt and gotten what you wanted.

Michael was an easy target for such people. He's trusting, very childlike, was a bit eccentric and had cash.

I still believe, as I did back in 1993 and 2004, Michael didn't do anything.

Thanks for your post

as I remember the first bitch was Macaulay Culkin

[Tang Lung]

Because man.... bitch got paid! :rolleyes: The father of the child got what he wanted, money. Why testify and let people find out your full of shit after you've dragged somebody through the dirt and gotten what you wanted.

Michael was an easy target for such people. He's trusting, very childlike, was a bit eccentric and had cash.

I still believe, as I did back in 1993 and 2004, Michael didn't do anything.

I agree 100 per cent. I believe he was odd to the point of being dangerous to himself, but not others.

[joey007]

honestly though, I wish he was the same old guy we saw from the album-thriller. :(

[Mr Bear]

Wonder why lol.

Because man.... bitch got paid! :rolleyes: The father of the child got what he wanted, money. Why testify and let people find out your full of shit after you've dragged somebody through the dirt and gotten what you wanted.

Michael was an easy target for such people. He's trusting, very childlike, was a bit eccentric and had cash.

I still believe, as I did back in 1993 and 2004, Michael didn't do anything.


I'm pretty sure the "wonder why" was rhetorical. :)

But you still said it well, Damien, and I'm completely with you. The accusers took advantage of MJ's naive attitude towards acceptable social interactions and ran away with it.

But you can't really blame Michael for anything he's done.....with such a torturous, traumatic childhood he actually ended up doing better than one would've thought.

He never NEVER got a chance to be "free", i.e. live life like a normal person, out of the limelight. I'm sure their were plenty of times when he'd glad give up all of his fame and money to become an average Joe and be left alone.

After the age of five there's wasn't one point in his life when he wasn't a celebrity and either hounded for attention or criticized and taunted.

I've never believed in afterlife but if anyone deserves to be in a better place right now, it's Michael Jackson. :(

[peoplessi]

Safe to say the accusations made in 1993 destroyed Michael Jackson. After that he was never the same. Still, there is always the suspicion around him, until he is proven not-guilty in that case also.

I'm curious, how does one change skin tone? From whole your body? This alleged thing he did. Wasn't he diagnosed with vitiligo in 1986? He went gradually from being dark, to very very white.

[DerricktheW]

Wait, what the hell did his dad say in that video?

Youtube ofcourse ripped it apart due to "Terms of Violation of Contractual Hooplah"

[Damien_Azreal]

I'm curious, how does one change skin tone? From whole your body? This alleged thing he did. Wasn't he diagnosed with vitiligo in 1986? He went gradually from being dark, to very very white.

Yeah, he was diagnosed with vitilligo and lupus in the mid 80s. It's said that the treatments he went through to combat both diseases lightened his skin ever more.

Wait, what the hell did his dad say in that video?

Youtube ofcourse ripped it apart due to "Terms of Violation of Contractual Hooplah"

Nothing worth watching. Joe was all smiles, and sawing how great he was. When asked about Michael he would say "The world lost a great superstar.", but never once refers to Mike as his son.
Joe even stops the interview to try and pimp a new record label. What an ass.

[Taril]

I actually feel sorry for MJ the longer this goes on. Its become pretty clear that people close to him didn't give a shit about him and his father is an arrogant *******.
Its no wonder he turned out the way he did.

[prophecy holder]

I actually feel sorry for MJ the longer this goes on. Its become pretty clear that people close to him didn't give a shit about him and his father is an arrogant *******.
Its no wonder he turned out the way he did.

I feel really sorry of Mj, not having a real childhood and a father that is a total dick. May he find peace in the after life.

[Bushido]

...yeah, we'll all miss MJ...he really touched everyone...(heh heh) :D

[Blue Lightning]

He never touched anyone :mad: He was used...used by mothers of kids to get millions, used by people around him, and when younger he was used by his brutal father who is a complete assclown and will hopefully pay in the end for his brutality. Sure, MJ was a mess in the end...his face told the tale. But he had a heart of gold which is why it was easy for others to take advantage of him. Watch the videos, watch the old stuff from 1970 J5 era...as a kid he had a heart of pureness and he was used. Sad.

The singing and dancing part...pure talent, plain and simple. Never see that kind of talent again. Ever. Even as a 12 year-old kid, he was genius whn it came to singing and dancing. I got to hand it to him on that.

[joey007]

yeah, wish he would've stayed the old michael:(

[ReadOnly]

The singing and dancing part...pure talent, plain and simple. Never see that kind of talent again. Ever. Even as a 12 year-old kid, he was genius whn it came to singing and dancing. I got to hand it to him on that.

Perhaps, the father was also a reason in this.

[joey007]

his father treated him like crap:mad:



poor guy:(

[Pansa]

his father treated him like crap:mad:

poor guy:(

both statments arent contradictory.

[Blue Lightning]

Perhaps, the father was also a reason in this.

His father got him started in the right direction sure, and there is nothing wrong with practice and good work ethic. But his father took it to the extreme and pushed him way too hard, and it wasnt nessacary. Looking at the live stuff from 1970, the rest of the J5 were good too, but they had to work at it. For Michael it came natural. He didnt need to be pushed 24/7 and constantly punished. One mistake on stage got him a beating.

Kids that age need a childhood. They need to be able to do other things once in a while...mabey go skating...mabey go to the movies...mabey be allowed to call their father "dad" instead of "joseph" :mad:. Joe never cared about any of that, just ticket sales.

I had to put this up. Look at his talent at 11 years old in 1969 (singing their number 1 hit "I want you back"). Amazing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVSYJXpD2_E&feature=related

[prophecy holder]

His father got him started in the right direction sure, and there is nothing wrong with practice and good work ethic. But his father took it to the extreme and pushed him way too hard, and it wasnt nessacary. Looking at the live stuff from 1970, the rest of the J5 were good too, but they had to work at it. For Michael it came natural. He didnt need to be pushed 24/7 and constantly punished. One mistake on stage got him a beating. :mad:

Kids that age need a childhood. They need to be able to do other things once in a while...mabey go skating...mabey go to the movies...mabey be allowed to call their father "dad" instead of "joseph"! Joe never cared about any of that, just ticket sales.

Didn't his own father try to sue Michael for like the rights to Billie jean?

What the hell kind of a dad would sue his own son?

[joey007]

all i can say about that is that his father was messed up :brickwall:

[peoplessi]

Just seen some of the AEG Live footage, from 2 days before his death. I can't really notice anything wrong with him - he dances and sings like before.

[wayskobfssae]

This is why, although I'm an objectivist, I recognise that almost any position can be argued.

That's also the argument for every bad person in history. In essence, your position is that no-one is evil. I agree with you, but don't agree that you can use it to validate people's wrongdoing.

What wrongdoing are you speaking of? Child rape? Or just being weird? The former was never proven, but sadly, that didn't even matter. Just imagine yourself being famous and some random kid pointing the finger at you. Settle out of court. Prove to the jury that you're innocent. You're screwed anyway. Society not only can't grasp the concept of something genuinely pure... they don't WANT to grasp the concept of it. The fact that the majority thinks he CAN'T be innocent, actually says more about the world we live in, than it does about Michael.

We want our monsters to be easily identifiable. We wanted all guys who wear earrings to be gay, we want everyone who wears a turban and a beard to be a terrorist, and we want all creepy-faced people who try to get close to children to be pedophiles. The idea of someone who just enjoys the company of children, with absolutely no sexual interest whatsoever, completely destroys that notion. It makes everything far more complicated. And it also makes us look evil, because we were so narrow-minded that we didn't even consider the possibility.

[MegaMustaine]

He caused his own issues. If he didn't want to be labeled as a pedophile he shouldn't have put himself in the situations he did. He admitted to sleeping in the same bed as kids who were not his!!!! Could he be anymore stupid??? Any person with half a brain realizes that you never do that, ever. I don't want to hear these excuses about his dad treating him badly. I know plenty of people that have had terrible childhoods and have turned out to be just fine. The blame for the way his life turned out rests on his shoulders, and his alone.

[peoplessi]

What is your exact point? That he is a pedophile? Or that one is a pedophile if you sleep in same bed with kids? I'm bit unsure what you mean. Excuses for _what_ exactly?

Also, dismissing what his father did to him, father's influence, based on that is silly. You should know better, not all people are the same. How well do you, for that matter, any of us, know Michael Jackson? Really, and still people are willing to bet on so many things.

Certainly he caused some of the issues he had, that's for sure, undeniable, but your post is bit unclear as what your point is. That Michael Jackson is a pedophile? That's at least what you insinuate.

[wayskobfssae]

If he didn't want to be labeled as a pedophile he shouldn't have put himself in the situations he did. He admitted to sleeping in the same bed as kids who were not his!!!! Could he be anymore stupid???

Oh, I see... so it's all about what it looks like rather than what it is. Yes, that sounds like a great way for all of us to live out our days. Let's just make it illegal for heterosexuals to wear a shirt with a rainbow on it, and we'll all operate in a world where nobody does ANYTHING bizarre. Anyone else in the mood for making 'fear of what others may think' into the core basis for how you live?

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

Sleeping in the same bed as kids that you are not related to as an adult is by it self sufficient enough to warrant suspicions of pedophilia. This admission destroyed him in the eyes of the public, because it provided a believable basis for the accusations to arise.

Running a private amusement park for kids, while weird, in the eyes of many is not seen as a bad act.

[Blue Lightning]

What is your exact point? That he is a pedophile? Or that one is a pedophile if you sleep in same bed with kids? I'm bit unsure what you mean. Excuses for _what_ exactly?

Also, dismissing what his father did to him, father's influence, based on that is silly. You should know better, not all people are the same. How well do you, for that matter, any of us, know Michael Jackson? Really, and still people are willing to bet on so many things.

Certainly he caused some of the issues he had, that's for sure, undeniable, but your post is bit unclear as what your point is. That Michael Jackson is a pedophile? That's at least what you insinuate.

Do you realize the kid was constantly pushed, punished, and beatin'? Had his childhood taken away, wasnt allowed to do anything other kids did? You bet his father caused serious tramatic problems that would manifest in Michaels later years.

The question is: Assuming Michael was no pedophile (which I do not believe for a second that he was), did he put himself in bad positions...positions that set himself up to be taken advantage of? You bet he did. Is it Michaels own fault? Well, to an extent.

It is hard to blame anyone else for the bad situations that he put himself in...after all, he was an adult and should of known better. However, people with deep psycological issues cannot see the forest for the trees. That does not excuse him from creating bad situations for himself...but it is meant to be an explination. What Michael really needed was a freind...a true friend, not someone who just wanted a piece of his money. Someone that would tell him how it was, someone who would help him get better and see the light. Obviously, Michael had no such freinds.

[peoplessi]

Why are you quoting me?

[MegaMustaine]

Oh, I see... so it's all about what it looks like rather than what it is. Yes, that sounds like a great way for all of us to live out our days. Let's just make it illegal for heterosexuals to wear a shirt with a rainbow on it, and we'll all operate in a world where nobody does ANYTHING bizarre. Anyone else in the mood for making 'fear of what others may think' into the core basis for how you live?

Then it would be okay for me to walk around with a shirt that has a swastika on it? No, because even if I don't support the Nazi party, I am smart enough to realize what it symbolizes in people's minds. If I see a person with a swastika on a shirt, I will associate them with being a Nazi, while if I know of a grown man sleeping in the same bed as children he is not related to I will associate him with pedophiles.

[wayskobfssae]

Then it would be okay for me to walk around with a shirt that has a swastika on it? No, because even if I don't support the Nazi party, I am smart enough to realize what it symbolizes in people's minds. If I see a person with a swastika on a shirt, I will associate them with being a Nazi, while if I know of a grown man sleeping in the same bed as children he is not related to I will associate him with pedophiles.

Actually it should be OK. The Swastika existed before the Nazis existed. We have enough privelages taken away by pricks (like being able to wear shoes at airport security checkpoints) without some random idiot being able to take an image and twist it around to the point that nobody can touch it anymore without being marked as something socially alien.

[Mr Bear]

Actually it should be OK. The Swastika existed before the Nazis existed. We have enough privelages taken away by pricks (like being able to wear shoes at airport security checkpoints) without some random idiot being able to take an image and twist it around to the point that nobody can touch it anymore without being marked as something socially alien.

Okay, then why don't you go out in public wearing a nice big swastika on your shirt.

Just make sure it's facing in the opposite direction of what the Nazis displayed it as....or else some people might get the wrong idea.

But otherwise it'll just be seen as a native American symbol of peace, nothing more. :rolleyes:

[peoplessi]

Then it would be okay for me to walk around with a shirt that has a swastika on it? No, because even if I don't support the Nazi party, I am smart enough to realize what it symbolizes in people's minds. If I see a person with a swastika on a shirt, I will associate them with being a Nazi, while if I know of a grown man sleeping in the same bed as children he is not related to I will associate him with pedophiles.

Sorry, but I'm bit amazed how bad your analogy is. Also, that's overall an poor argument. "Ok if A is B, then surely C must be D" - totally unrelated.

Whilst I don't know what Jackson did, and didn't do - I don't even claim that. You on the other hand seem to have something, almost personal, against Jackson.

Also, you can't be Nazi(party member of NSDAP 1933–1945) now days - so I'd get my facts straight on that too.

[Pansa]

Also, you can't be Nazi(party member of NSDAP 1933–1945) now days - so I'd get my facts straight on that too.
Well that argument didn't help much in the USA during the communist witchhunt, did it?
or to rephrase: does political affiliation realy demand existence of a party?

@thread:
As for Jacko and the whole peeds thing.
both his story and the accusers story follow a believable narrative, and personly i look at such things in a "shroedingers cat" approach, even if i CAN'T open the box to look which state is true, until i would, both exists ".

there is a difference between felt probability and real probability, and although sleeping in bed with kids not your own seems dubious, other disorders (peter pan?) can lead to this strange result as much as sexual disorders. both parties had something to gain which warrented lying.
Stop arguing as if either was proven.

[side note: someone above wrote "non related" kids.. im not shure if i would find uncles sleeping in bed with nieces REALY that ensuring ^^]

[Mariamus]

No more Godwin in the thread.

[wayskobfssae]

both parties had something to gain which warrented lying. Stop arguing as if either was proven.

Emm... there's always something to gain by lying. Even if you're truly in the right to begin with, you can still lie to further strengthen your case. But if we're going to start thinking like that, then why even have a court system at all? Let's just let everyone be guilty, even after being proven innocent.

U.S. Government: We won't condemn you for being different. That's the peoples' job.

[side note: someone above wrote "non related" kids.. im not shure if i would find uncles sleeping in bed with nieces REALY that ensuring ^^]

Heheh, you know, sometimes (hick jokes aside) I've wondered about this whole percieved "If it's your kids, it's ok. If it's someone elses' kids, it must be dubious." holds any water. There seems to be this pre-programmed mentality that anyone who has their own kid is somehow incapable of any wrongdoing, even though there's a higher % of child molestation cases from within the family. Anyone else find it weird that if you want to adopt a child, you might as well be trying to immigrate to the U.S. 3 weeks after 9/11. But if you want to have a kid yourself, you can do it whenever you want (even at the age of 12), no questions asked. But if you want to go out in your back yard and catch a fish, oops, you need a license. I wonder if there's any people out there who have kids, just so they can be in the company of kids without society giving them odd glances.

[peoplessi]

Well that argument didn't help much in the USA during the communist witchhunt, did it?
or to rephrase: does political affiliation realy demand existence of a party=

It's not an argument, you just aren't a Nazi. You are something else, like neo-nazi or similar that exist today. To be a Nazi, you need to belond to NSDAP - which is defunct. So it's bit silly to say someone is a "Nazi" when that's impossible.

[wayskobfssae]

It's not an argument, you just aren't a Nazi. You are something else, like neo-nazi or similar that exist today. To be a Nazi, you need to belond to NSDAP - which is defunct. So it's bit silly to say someone is a "Nazi" when that's impossible.

Meh... calling a Neo-Nazi a Nazi is like calling a Golden Retriever a dog. Same critter, different sub-species.

[peoplessi]

If one wants to be historically in-accurate - sure.

[wayskobfssae]

If one wants to be historically in-accurate - sure.

Heh, no wonder you're offended. We've always had grammar nazis, and now we have history ones too?

[Bushido]

He never touched anyone :mad: He was used...used by mothers of kids to get millions, used by people around him, and when younger he was used by his brutal father who is a complete assclown and will hopefully pay in the end for his brutality. Sure, MJ was a mess in the end...his face told the tale. But he had a heart of gold which is why it was easy for others to take advantage of him. Watch the videos, watch the old stuff from 1970 J5 era...as a kid he had a heart of pureness and he was used. Sad.

The singing and dancing part...pure talent, plain and simple. Never see that kind of talent again. Ever. Even as a 12 year-old kid, he was genius whn it came to singing and dancing. I got to hand it to him on that.

Hahaha...whatever helps convince you that sleeping with kids in a room with a security door and a hidden back room with three padlocks on it is ok...let's pretend he is just a ******* lunatic because his daddy spanked him too hard...that doesn't excuse his incredibly stupid behavior with his own kids or his homoerotic adventures in neverland...

[wayskobfssae]

room with a security door and a hidden back room with three padlocks on it

Link pls?

[peoplessi]

Heh, no wonder you're offended. We've always had grammar nazis, and now we have history ones too?

Offended? History nazi? I think when your arguments fail, then you have to resort to such low means. Just what you did. So yeah, I reckon we have nothing to discuss.

[Pansa]

It's not an argument, you just aren't a Nazi. You are something else, like neo-nazi or similar that exist today. To be a Nazi, you need to belond to NSDAP - which is defunct. So it's bit silly to say someone is a "Nazi" when that's impossible.

I disagree, the same way you can be a communist without belonging to any communist party , you can be a "national socialist" which is the long for Nazi.
The Party had a definite line, a line you can think of , as your political "line", as you can considere yourself a communist. or socialist.

belonging to an actual party doesn't enter into it.
Its not like being babtised. if you think "mein kampf " is a great read and educational , and things should be done that way , your political affiliation is "nationalistic socialist" short nazi. Like you could be concidered a communist if you'd like to abolish privat enterprise alltogether.

its not like they cant exist because you abolish the party...

---------- Post added at 11:44 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:38 AM ----------

Let's just let everyone be guilty, even after being proven innocent.
.
not being found guilty due to a settlement =! being found not guilty.
and even less "proven" innocent. since not being found guilty doesnt imply proven innocent. (reasonable doubt means that, its REASONABLE to doubt , not its impossible to be true.)

thats what i said, the actual "state" is " half guilty half innocent",
"innocent until proven guilty" is a matter of LAW, since you cant be assumed "50% guilty and 50% innocent in the eye of the law.

what has been known isn't enough data to "know" either way.
and people should understand that.

[peoplessi]

Pansa, just to answer shortly, you are wrong: Nazism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazism)

[prophecy holder]

Jesus christ, barely any of you have respect for the dead. At least wait a month before starting all this nonsence.

Also, why not just say something true like Walt disney was an anti-semite.

[wayskobfssae]

Offended? History nazi? I think when your arguments fail, then you have to resort to such low means. Just what you did. So yeah, I reckon we have nothing to discuss.

Indeed we don't. Complaining that calling a Neo-nazi a Nazi isn't historically accurate is just completely stupid and anal. There was nothing "low" about what I said. Though just to ensure that I don't set you off on another pointless tangent, I'll admit that calling someone a History-Nazi isn't historically accurate, since there has never been any such political party. But by the linguistic definition, it is exactly what you're being.

not being found guilty due to a settlement =! being found not guilty. and even less "proven" innocent. since not being found guilty doesnt imply proven innocent. (reasonable doubt means that, its REASONABLE to doubt , not its impossible to be true.)

Just for curiosity's sake, what's your take on the second trial?

[Crosma]

Pansa, just to answer shortly, you are wrong: Nazism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazism)
Nazi = member of the Nazi party.
nazi = person who holds beliefs consistent with the Nazi party.

Do you see?

You are something else, like neo-nazi or similar that exist today.No, because nazism and neo-nazism aren't all that similar, apart from the racism. They're different belief systems, hence the different names. It's like the difference between conservatism and neo-conservatism. They're not particularly similar either, except for their generally regressive nature.

[Pansa]

Nazi = member of the Nazi party.
nazi = person who holds beliefs consistent with the Nazi party.

Do you see?

That doesn't make sense at all where i'm comming from, because ALL nouns are capitalised ( nazi would mean its either an adjective/adverb or verb)
mabe some of you remember , im from germany...

And in adition to neo-nazis we still have people who are refered to as "Altnazis"
which basicly is a compositum of old and nazi, and is refering to senior citizens from those days, who have kept their ideology.

when i did my social year (as ambulant nursing staff , washing people making breakfast for them at home) we had one customer who had contracted "infantile paralysis" and stated the following
" i don't vote, the only party i ever elected was the NSDAP, since thats banned, i don't care" and was listening to german soldiers songs from that eara exclusivly.

i maintain that this person was a Nazi, even if the base for his believe had been banned.. he wasn'T a neonazi, he was a selfproclaimed devote follower of the Nsdap. (although i used to joke later that i didn'T get it, because being crippled and wheelchair bound, he realy wasn't the prime example for the "ubermensch" and imho the 2 didn't fit very well.

the wiki entry specificicly states "refers to the ideology and practices of the National Socialist German Workers’ Party" which i propose doesn't need the party to exist to be a persons believe.

Although the wiki further states that this is a rather derogatory term, which people don't use on themselves (which is true) , it is not implied that people who are rightfully descripted by this term can'T exist without the party.

an ideology doesn't need an Organisation! And if that Organisation DID exist already, ex members or sympathetic people who haven'T changed their ideology are absolutly well described by the term.

Nazi is a term like commie(english language) or "sozi" (in germany) which basicly are just a derogatory terms for specific political spectra.

[ZaphodB]

Can't wait to see if this thread is either full of deletions due to the off topic talk or a lock because of it come monday.

[wayskobfssae]

Can't wait to see if this thread is either full of deletions due to the off topic talk or a lock because of it come monday.

Isn't there a scientific theory somewhere that Nazis will eventually be brought up in ANY internet debate, regardless of how unrelated to Nazis the debate is?

[ZaphodB]

Isn't there a scientific theory somewhere that Nazis will eventually be brought up in ANY internet debate, regardless of how unrelated to Nazis the debate is?

If you believe that, I have a bridge in Brooklyn I'd like to sell you.

[Pansa]

Isn't there a scientific theory somewhere that Nazis will eventually be brought up in ANY internet debate, regardless of how unrelated to Nazis the debate is?

No more Godwin in the thread.

mariamus already named it. ^^

[wayskobfssae]

If you believe that, I have a bridge in Brooklyn I'd like to sell you.

Oooohh! How much?

[ZaphodB]

Oooohh! How much?

$5 + tax :D

[wayskobfssae]

$5 + tax :D

Sold!!

[Mariamus]

That's it. I told you to stop Godwinning.
If you want to discuss Nazism, make another thread!
:lock: